 Okay well I imagine most of you have replies like, well yeah of course form and matter are real, right? If substance is what exists and substance is composed of form and matter, of course form and matter are real. Okay well let's hold on here. Remember some of the previous discussion we just had. Is form the same thing as matter? No. Form and matter are distinct from each other. They are not the same thing. Okay what does it mean to exist? To exist is to be a substance. So if something is not a substance then it doesn't exist. All right and the question is are form and matter real? Let's just take it one step at a time. Is form real? Well according to Aristotle. Well if something is real according to Aristotle it's a substance. Is substance the same thing as form? No. Substance is not the same thing as form. Substance is composed of form or somehow composite of form and matter. Okay but just like water, you know water's composed of dihydrogen monoxide just like water is not the same thing as hydrogen. Substance is not the same thing as form. Form and matter are distinct from each other. They are not the same thing. Think about matter. Is matter the same thing as substance? No. Same reasons. Form and matter are distinct from each other. Substance is a composite of form and matter. That means substance is not identical to matter. It's not the same thing as matter. Substance is not the same thing as form. Form is not the same thing as matter. Matter is not the same thing as substance. Yet when we ask what does it mean to exist? Aristotle says substance. Substance is real. Anything else that's not a substance is not real or go. Form and matter are not real. Now before you you know chastise Aristotle too much about this keep in mind both he and Plato have fallen to an error or a trap that was set by Annex Amanda before them. Annex Amanda warned you about trying to define existence in terms of the finite. So you know Plato tried with this trying to define everything as being the form of being. Okay but when we ask what being is he doesn't have a definition. He can't tell us. It's just you know it's being. Well Annex Amanda warned us about this. He said look if you if you try to define existence in terms of the finite you're either going to result in you know saying nothing right just kind of repeating a word over and over again or defining it in terms of two other things and that's what Aristotle has done. Okay in reality if if what exists is just form and matter well now we have to say that there's what two more things that exist against substance and we say there's form and we say there's matter and these three things exist oh no right we've lost this unified account of existence. Annex Amanda warned us about this problem a long time ago and you know for what it's worth we keep falling back into it. We keep falling back into this problem. Both Plato and Aristotle tried to define existence and they fell into this problem and if we can't find a way if we can't find a way to answer Annex Amanda we're going to keep falling into it too.