 Kathleen Doughty is a producer and director, an award-winning Los Angeles filmmaker whose work includes long and short form documentaries, a narrative feature, non-fiction series, specials, talk show, television, and multimedia, which means she's an independent producer and does whatever she possibly can to be able to be a filmmaker. And she shot this over 20 years, starting with an interview she conducted with Congressman Lewis in the 90s and has 95 hours of tape with him. Nelson Linder, to my left, is the president of the Austin chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Color People, and Austin, and Dr. Tasha Philot is an associate professor of government at UT and a scholar of African American congressional history. So let me start, Kathleen, tell us about the process of making this film and the 20-year journey. So, yeah, I don't know if I, can you hear me? Okay. So I met Congressman Lewis when he was just running, actually, for Congress in the late 80s, and I was doing another documentary and interviewed him for that documentary. And I did not know very much about him, and so he got into the interview, we asked him a few questions about the other subject, and then just started to kind of whim. We said, well, you know what, tell us a little bit about your story. And he started telling those stories, which, if you can imagine hearing them for the first time, maybe it is the first time for some of you, he's just spellbinding. His delivery, the way the stories are told, and of course the subject of each of those stories is just, I'd never heard anything like it. And so after that interview, we asked him if we could make a film about him, and he was, he agreed. So we began a very long process. We shot quite a bit of the film in the early 90s. You probably could tell the younger interview, younger interviews are from then the family reunion is in that period. It took a while to get the momentum that we needed, the connections, the money, the partnerships, and it really took off again after President Obama was elected, and people were curious about the movement, and Lewis began to get a lot of national attention. And so we went back to Washington, showed him some of the early footage, and he said, finish it. So we followed orders. Dr. Philot, what is Congressman Lewis' position in Congress? I've always thought of him as sort of a moral compass. He's regarded as one of the most liberal, consistently liberal, congressman in Congress. And has he been, in terms of his legacy and in terms of his place in Congress, how would you define his importance in his years being a congressman? I mean, he's certainly consistent in terms of his persistence in fighting for civil rights anti-discrimination across a multitude of groups. His legacy continues in terms of making sure that the African-American history museum was built. That was part of his legacy, introducing the bill. And he fought for that for decades, literally decades, year after year until it was passed by Congress. Kathleen, what do you hope for this film in terms of not only just the successes of film, but we're living in a time right now where a lot of the things that Congressman Lewis fought for his entire life have come under attack? It's been very interesting to show the film since the election. We had a period, and we started showing it about a year ago. And initially, it was a good response, but it was nothing like the response we've gotten since November. And I think that over and over again, what I hear people saying from the audience is, we need inspiration. We need a vision. And this is a story and a man who really imparts that powerfully. And it's very encouraging after screening when I hear a lot of people stand up and say, OK, I'm ready. What can I do? I want to do something. Where do I go? Who do I talk to? How do I sign up? And that is, by far, something I know is music to your ears, Mr. Lender. Definitely what we would hope for in the film, for sure. Mr. Lender, you're here at Ground Zero for a lot of the issues that John was talking about. Well, I was born on Ground Zero in Macon, Georgia, 1958. So when I see John Lewis, I see my own ancestors, because, frankly, that was a culture of the South. It was a culture based on sacrifice, based on discipline, based on courage. He came out of that. And frankly, at the young age of 58, that reality is still relevant today. I grew up in that kind of environment. And I think what's important is that the integrity, the commitment, and it wouldn't lose one's life for a greater cause. I mean, it was those kind of actions that inspired everybody. And I think my disappointment is that those are all valuable lessons in terms of, like, courage and sacrifices, but somehow in the process, as a people, I have to say this, despite his sacrifice, the nation, unfortunately, didn't remember all those lessons. And as a result, as he said, the pendulum swings back and forth through the awesome things. So I think most of it is just the applause we see for what he did. It's also the understanding and us to make our own commitment to what he stood for. Because without that, these things are not permanent. So if you lose your focus and your commitment and your courage, guess what? It can swing back and forth. So to me, he was just a testament in courage and sacrifice and also steadfastness. How did you're feeling about Kathleen making the film change over time? I mean, obviously, the politics change over time. You know, it's really interesting to see, let's say, C.T. Vivian in two different types of his portions of his life, the ages on camera. I think he starts out young and he gets older. And some of the people on the opposite way, depending on where you're using it. But you're, you know, you're filming all these heroes of the civil rights movement, Bernard Lafayette, James Lawson, Andy Young. It's amazing to see the old footage in Diane Nash, you know, walking with with Congressman Lewis's 20 year olds over in Nashville. And what how did that affect you in terms of the process of making this? Well, it's for any filmmaker, it's frustrating to have to wait that long to see a film made 20 years like, where are you going to be done? My family was just like, give it up, just do it. And I think that one of the things that was surprisingly beneficial about all of that is the very fact that you see, especially Congressman Lewis aging on camera. And you see him becoming starting as a very young activist, becoming more and more skilled, I would say, through the film at communicating and at conveying these passions that he had, especially some of the footage of him and the C-Span footage on the floor of the house where he talks about. He almost is scolding other members of Congress. I think they call him in Congress the conscience of Congress, because he can get away with doing that. I mean, he can, I guess it's what you call shame. I mean, he can really make people feel like being, casting a vote in a certain way is greedy, or is a sign of self-interest. Nobody else, I think, in Congress can do that. It's phenomenal. So yeah, I see him gaining a sense of his power, really, in that role. And that was important to see. About 10, 10 minutes or so for questions. And I'm assuming that people have some questions out there for the filmmaker and for our panelists. So we premiered the film about two weeks on public television. And as part of that, we become part of a website called PBS Learning Media, which is specifically for K through 12 students. And we supply them with a discussion guide, curriculum modules, clips from the film, and a lot of sort of resource material. Not so much to show the whole film in class, but to really kind of take it apart. And this film really breaks down nicely. There are chapters for all of these stories. But it also gives teachers the tools to think about the ways they can present it. It can be one class. It can be a whole series of classes. But we've always felt, from the first days of shooting it, that the true audience is the audience that the congressman wants for the film, which is the next generations. And so, yes? They educate the members of congress and their families and anybody else lucky enough to get to go on one of those. Because I think his role as a teacher has been greatly underappreciated by him. And he has been the nation's conscience, but he's also been the nation's teacher. Absolutely. So there's an organization in Washington called the Faith and Politics Institute. And every year, just about now, it's the week of Bloody Sunday, which is the weekend of the 6th, 7th and 8th of March. The congressman takes a group of usually between 25 and 30 members of congress, mostly members of the House, but also senators, on a pilgrimage through the sites of the civil rights movement. So they all fly to Birmingham and then go to Montgomery and then to Selma. And they stop at all the churches and the sites of these events. And not only congressman Lewis, but Bernard Lafayette, some of the other members of the SNCC are there. Local people are there who are part of these events. And they testify, basically, to what happened to these churches, churchful of members of congress. It's very, very powerful. You've seen a lot of footage from one of those pilgrimages in the film. We were lucky enough to go along and shoot these. But I think that you're right. His role leading that pilgrimage is one of the magnets for these members of congress to go, to actually see him talk about these incidents that he lived through and went through in a sort of immediate present tense at the locations that they happened. We interviewed a lot of the members of congress who were on those pilgrimages and it was just consistent from all of them how moved they were and how they never knew that this was, they had heard his stories, but they never sort of connected the dots with these places and people. So it's a very, very powerful. If you're ever invited, don't even hesitate. It's a great, great opportunity. You feel like you've gone to the mountaintop. Yes. You feel like you can say, I was there. I was taught by a man who's not going to pass. No one like him is going to pass this way. That's right. You know you're in the arena of greatness and everybody feels. Yeah. You saw in the scene where he's walking across the bridge with, I think he's with a couple of members of congress and he's pointing out like, here's where the horse is. That was the pilgrimage. So you actually walk across the Edmonton Bridge with him and he's just in the moment. I mean, he's there. It's like 50 years. It's not passed at all. Yeah. It's very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I know what he was present many times at the White House, the President of Johnson, in the run-up to the Golden Rights Act. That's right. I'm just curious. Obviously it's such a full life and you have to edit certain parts of it. What did the congressman have to say about that relationship? Well, I think that at the time, when Bloody Sunday happened, the congressman was 24 years old. And I think that at that time, the way I understood the story is that it was principally Dr. King and President Johnson. I don't know. I don't have the inside story on it, but I know that Lewis was certainly considered part of the leadership from the student wing of the movement, but I'm not sure how much negotiating went on at that time directly with the President. Actually, Johnson had already written up the Voting Rights Act before Selma and they were waiting and he had told King that he needed something on the ground and they were waiting for something to happen. Yeah. Sure. I'm Lucy Johnson and we had in our family something called Daddy Duty and Daddy Duty meant that you would accompany the President whenever he was going to a significant, the signing of a significant piece of legislation or making a significant speech. And July the 2nd, 1964, when the 1964 Civil Rights Act, otherwise known as a public accommodation was passed, it was my 17th birthday and nobody on the face of the earth is ever going to get such a great birthday present as that. It was all so very personal. And then August the 6th, 1965, I was again on Daddy Duty and my father asked me to join him in the diplomatic reception room, that's right off of the South Portico when heads of state are coming in and into the White House and the ceremonies are out on the lawn. And that didn't make any sense because big legislation like this would be signed in the East Room of the White House. And quite candidly, although I was thrilled to death to do this, I was 18 years old and I had places to go and things to do and so the East Room was really convenient and I didn't understand why we were going down to the diplomatic reception room. And my father first, a teacher, always a teacher, very much like Congressman Lewis, when I asked him why on earth are we coming down to the diplomatic reception room, he said, well, because Lucy Vaines, which meant, of course, I was in trouble, always the double name meant you're in trouble. Some of you, or daughters of the South, are laughing too because they've been in that same situation. And he said, we are going to the Congress to sign this legislation. And I said, Daddy, why are we going up to the Congress? Obviously knowing that this is going to take a lot longer than what I had scheduled and in my mind. And he said, because Lucy Vaines, many courageous men and women, because of their vote on this bill will not be returning to the Congress. That's why we're going to the Congress. They deserve for us to go up there on their turf and tell the world how courageous they were and how proud we are of them and how indebted we are to them. And many great men and women will be coming to the Congress who never could have come otherwise. And I believe with all that's in me that he was thinking of someone like John Lewis. The cause of the passage of the Voting Rights Act, which John Lewis fought so fervently for, he was able to become one of the most effective members of the Congress of the United States and be, as you so eloquently spoke earlier, the conscience of the Congress. Yes, please. I want to make a point, because we can't get lost in the shuffle. We see Congressman Lewis as a zenith in the White House as a politician. We can't forget talking to young people what it came from. It came out of our communities. At that time he was not famous. He was risking his life. He was spit upon, beat, blooded. We have to be careful to remember that these guys came out of our communities like everyday people. To our young folks, you too can be great today. I think there are great people being born every minute. The challenge is, how do you define your struggle? Where is your integrity? Where is your discipline? Because the issues in many ways are even greater today than our challenges. So I think, look at where you started from. The South. I was born in the South. The conditions are right right now for Black Lives Matter and those groups. Look at where you are. Show some integrity. Be unselfish. Work for a greater cause other than yourself. So I think the lesson is, is that these guys came out of our normal communities with normal people. But because of sacrifice, and because of courage, they became great. So while we applaud what they are, we also embrace and applaud what they started, like all of us. And the wonder of it all is he has never forgotten for one moment where he started. And that's the reason why he does these marvelous trips over and over again to try to teach others that they too need to be able to stand up and be counted because the fight is not won. See a question back over there? What's it going to take to impact change now since Republicans are in the majority in the House and Senate and in Texas. And so I've been writing to my senators and to my congressperson. And I feel like that's useless because I get to say if I get a response it's very much not what my beliefs are. So what is it going to take? Is it going to take more marches with pink hats or just what is it going to take and where are the leaders, where's the bench, where are the up and coming people for midterm elections and beyond? Is that to me? Who else? You know, let's be really, really honest. It's not just Republicans. Democrats made a lot of mistakes. We bear responsibility because you know what? If our kids are apathetic and not involved, who are we going to blame? Us. We take too much for granted. So I would say it's part of us as older people to go to work and teach our young people about these kind of films, about these kind of heroes who are right here in our community today who did the same thing. We have Joe Losers in Austin, Texas. But if we don't teach our young people and they don't listen, it's going to happen again. So I would say rather than looking at the symptoms, let's address the origin of the problem, which is apathy, lack of understanding, we're too selfish as a society and we're too distracted. So let's back up a little bit and teach young people about what it means to be involved in your community. About what it means to read in these people, not just social media. What it means to write an article. What it means to know your neighbor and your zip codes. What it means to be a person so stuck about doing the little things that make us human beings. We're human beings. We can't ever forget that because of technology. We've got to bike up, assess ourselves, take a lot of responsibility, blame other people. Otherwise what we didn't do right that put us in predicament. I'm talking about Democrats. You've got to stand tall, stand strong and make sure that every part of this nation is properly represented. And we didn't do that. As a result, now we've been set back, what, 30, 40 years? Lessons learned, lessons learned. I also say this. We're in a time when things like truth and justice are partisan. And we need to take a step back and realize that no one party owns that. And so we have to convince people that fighting for equality isn't a Democratic, capital D Democratic. It's a little D Democratic. So we can't be a democracy and have large groups of people marginalized. So we need to convince people that it's in all of our best interests, not the Republicans, not the Democrats, to fight for this. The other thing in terms of politics is we're worried about 2020 because that's a presidential election. We need to be worried about 2020 because that's when our state legislatures and the census are coming up. That's where real change is going to happen. We need to make sure that we take back those state legislatures so that when we're drawing these districts, I'm not voting with the people in Waco and College Station. And they're drawing these districts in fair and equitable ways. So I can call Ted Cruz and he's not going to call me back and I can't do anything about that. But let's worry about making impact on these low turnout elections, these state legislators who are now going to be redrawing these districts come 2020. How can people act on that, though? What can people do to make that happen? I think people don't realize how important those local elections are. I think we spend billions, literally billions of dollars on presidential elections and people think that's the most important thing. And people don't realize that the drawing of these congressional elections happens on our state level. That big pink building up the street is where a lot of action happens and we just ignore it. And so we really do need to disseminate information about what happens in our local and state politics and that we need to be paying as much attention to those folks as we do with Congress and the presidency. And also, I mean, there are three branches of government. It's not just the presidency. We've got midterms next year. We're focused on local elections. We can change a lot of things. So I think the idea that there are checks and balances and the Republicans know this, the Tea Party found this out. You know, if you focus on your local elections and your state houses, so we can't just look at the highest level. The president, we can think about the whole entire constitution, the whole government. And it's very hard to make folks think about state politics or local politics and the myths of all these changes. So I think that's part of our challenge. Let's go back to making it basic. Vote locally, act locally, and understand that there are checks and balances that our efforts are used if we understand how the political system functions. Too often, we get lost in the context. One of the challenges is that voter turnout in Texas is pathetic. It's the lowest in the country, and it's hard to be able to affect political change if you don't vote. And one of the great things that films like this can do is to remind people about history and remind people about how change actually has happened in the past and the importance of it. We have to wrap up, but I want to leave the last word for Kathleen because as a fellow documentary filmmaker, you don't always get to have an audience. So how would you finish up in terms of how you feel about this 20-year journey and just about your film? Well, I'd like to just follow up on what you've said because last October, we showed the film at a high school just outside of Houston. And as a result of the screening of the film, every eligible senior in that school registered to vote in a high school. And I think that is where we really want to go is to young people and to get them in the habit. If you register to vote after you see this film, you're not going to forget it. Next four years later, you're going to be out there voting again. Two years later, the next and the next elections. And I just feel like although these are all things we need to do, we also need to motivate people to do them. And what does that take? The filmmaker is going to be here to be able to answer your questions individually along with our panelists. But let's give a hand for everybody tonight.