 Well hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Resiliency Radio with Dr. Jill. Today we're going to talk about healthy homes and I cannot wait to introduce our guest, but just a reminder you can find our podcast anywhere you listen or watch podcast on YouTube, on Stitcher, on iTunes, or Spotify. Please stop by, leave a review, share if you love it, and subscribe on YouTube if you want to get all the latest episodes. Today without further ado, I really want to introduce our guests. We got actually introduced by a mutual friend in publishing. They have an amazing new book out that I cannot wait to share. It's one of those where we were just talking before we got on. I always love the books where they actually feel good, they look good, they're beautiful. This is one of those books that you actually want on your coffee table. And that's where mine is in our office, it's in our waiting room literally for patients as they come in. It's one of the things that I have, we don't have a lot in the waiting room, but it's one of those things like this has to go in the waiting room. So it's a really beautiful. Oh, it's so cool. Thank you for that. And great job. So your book is called, have it right here. I want to say, Write Healthier Homes, A Blueprint for Creating a Toxic-Free Living Environment. Now I know there's going to be so many people who listen to my podcast, who are patients, who are clients, who are just fans, that this is going to be a great episode they're going to want to share and re-listen to, because this is a topic I cannot tell you the number of questions I get asked about, and I cannot wait to dive in because you guys are clearly the experts. Let me just briefly introduce you and we'll jump right in. So Jen Stout has a Bachelor in Journalism from the University of Colorado Boulder and an MBA from Southern Methodist University when she discovered that her chronic health issues were the result of toxic black mold. She set out to build one of the first truly healthy homes using Mainstay modern-day building materials. She was the executive director of the Hill County Country Builder Association in Central Texas. When she met Rusty and together they founded JS2 Partners Healthy Home Builders. Since then they've become nationally recognized leaders in healthy home building and home design, and Rusty brings 20 plus years of home building experience to JS2 Partners. Am I saying that right correctly? Yes. Cool. He was president of the Hill County Country Builders Association Board of Directors and is a member of the Texas Association of Builders, a national association of home builders. He has served as a building trades education mentor for high school students and a licensed realtor in the state of Texas. And of course this new book we're talking about today, help it. By both of you guys and like I said I wanted to emphasize you guys want to get this book. This is something you want to actually feel and touch and flip through. It is gorgeous. You've done a great job. Thank you. So welcome, welcome, welcome and thank you for taking the time to talk to me. Of course. Thank you for inviting us on. Yeah, so I'd love we are just a little tiny glimpse gen of your story but tell us a little bit about the journey that led to where you're at now with building healthy homes and then even writing a manual, a book for so many people out there that are suffering like you have. Tell us a little bit more about your journey. Yeah, I never really set out to be a builder but I guess you can say building definitely found me. It was a little bit over 10 years ago I was in grad school in Dallas at SMU pursuing my MBA and I always been super healthy and like active and I started getting really tired and got like rashes all over my body. I ended up losing most of my hair so I had to wear a wig for several years and I had gone to doctors all over the country. Nobody could figure out what was wrong with me. I was like this medical mystery child and right before graduation I found this horrific black mold problem behind the walls in my apartment and I was like man this has to be at least like what is like going on with me at least some of it and so I found an environmental doctor Dr. Ray in Dallas and they found high levels of mycotoxins in my body the ones from like stachybatchas so they're all bad but that one's like especially terrible and I learned that it wreaked havoc on my health my immune system had basically crashed. I became allergic and sensitive to everything around me not just like molds and grasses but like everything I was eating all my foods my fabrics I was wearing the makeup shampoos and chemicals were the worst and that was a real problem because for Maldohi and like petroleum solvents they're used in everything and construction materials nowadays and so I was in this conundrum I couldn't figure out a place to live where I wouldn't react to things because I become so sensitive to mold and I walk into a house that maybe had a few years to off gas the chemicals and I would react to like some little amount of mold in the HVAC system or you know in the showers whatnot so I looked online I couldn't find anyone that did healthy home building it was like this not even like thought of yet and I was like well I'm just gonna take my research skills and I'm going to build myself my first healthy home and I did um I researched every screw every piece of concrete drywall like everything that goes into a home um it took a couple years and the big focus for me really was no VOCs no haps hazardous air pollutants also looking at indoor air quality and water quality and not long after that this is in Houston I'd move back home to closer to my family I received a job opportunity here in central Texas where we live now but the Hill Country Builders Association as their director and so I was like I did this once I can do it again so I moved out here he was um actually the president at the HCBA at the time and we fell in love got married and but was really cool about it is I had this body of knowledge about how to build homes healthy and he kind of he was learning that through our processes and I also learned how to build from him so we just started JST partners yeah it was his idea I love that so much because as you know for years saying you're reading my book my story whenever we can take something that's so difficult and the suffering and the tragedy and like the awfulness that you had to go through and I'm so sorry because it is so painful and and even more painful I think for you for my patients for so many people out there that are even listening you have these mystery symptoms and you're told that oh it's all in your head or you need an antidepressant or these crazy things that are literally medical gas letting you know there's something not right and you're losing your hair and what you described is so classic with mold because it massively weakens immune system especially that nasty black stack you botry some metabolites and so then all the you know you're very susceptible and it also usually triggers the mass cells which makes histamine go crazy and that's one of the reasons people lose hair and then all this massive reaction to chemicals and the gut gets permeable so there's like this whole slew that you described and I'm thinking medically I know what's going on right um yeah I'm sorry that you had to go through that but what a great blessing that you met Rusty and I think God had another plan on the bigger picture that's definitely true because how cool that um I just I love that and I love love when there's meaning and purpose um in the midst of difficulty and when things get transformed to the good work that you guys are doing in the world and it's so needed I mean this call I could not wait to talk to you because literally really truly one of the biggest questions I mean I do medicine right I do my little thing and I do it well just that in the office but environmental remediation and building homes and finding safe places to live I can find people like you to help patients but I'm not the expert and I can learn like you did Jen but I'm certainly not as knowledgeable as you guys so you bring this incredible important knowledge because so many people are finding they can't buy a place for example right outside me I'm in a condo and right outside me there's a lots and lots of multi condos and apartments being built right now crazy amounts and I'm watching them as I put up in the midst of these rainstorms they're not letting it dry I mean you know and I'd love to talk to you both about some of that I'm watching I am not the expert but I'm like that cannot be good I would never buy a place there because I'm seeing these places get drenched with no roof and the materials are porous and then all of a sudden they you know put up the drywall and even the drywall sometimes is sitting out in the rain I'm like how in the world can this be good I know there's there's one in our neighborhood we were riding our bikes last weekend and you know it's bad when you ride or walk past it and you can smell it yes coming out of the building it's like somebody's going to live in that place right and no one and they think okay new so I want to go so many places with this company let's start there though first of all people typically think new houses are the best because maybe they haven't had the years and decades to accumulate mold and there's some truth to that but let's talk about new versus all because then you have the VOCs and then the construction so I want to talk a little bit about you know what are you looking for when you're looking for a clean home I want to tell you too the apartment that I got so sick and was new and that's exactly what happened it rained well actually that and then also the shower pans were cracked and there's just a lot of oversight that goes into construction practices that can like really ruin someone's life yeah the big thing now with with new construction too it's you touched on it while if it's brand new maybe it doesn't have mold but the VOCs if people aren't building like we build it's full of them and then the way that you have to build houses now to meet energy code they are airtight and so all of those things are staying in there it and most likely the what we would call a track home is they're not designed like they haven't put much thought into the HVAC system and and exchanging air and making sure that you know we're getting fresh air and stuff their main objective is to finish this really fast really cheap so they can get somebody in it and so yeah most people don't think about what's going on behind the walls they just want it to look pretty but you can have both I agree so let's talk about someone say they're hiring you or they're looking to construct or they're getting into a home that was constructed or partially construct they're getting in maybe and still putting some materials in and picking out some design elements what are some of the questions of things that the average person is not going to know that they should be asking looking for tell us kind of go through like if there was a checklist which I'm sure there's in your book like what what do you what questions are you asking go through some of those kinds of basic things that a buyer or a renter should be asking or knowing about before they get into a home I think if it's an existing home you want to ask about if it's had any water damage and if it was ever mediated properly um usually that has to doesn't have to be disclosed looking at a house's roof I mean you want to look underneath sinks look behind the washing machine the dryer you can kind of tell like when things start to go right like though um you'll see cracks in places where they shouldn't be and and that is a recipe for disaster and if you have the money to remediate it that's one thing but if not I see a lot of people just like they find a house that's pretty and they want to overlook the other things yeah so yeah I mean an existing home is tough right because you you you likely aren't buying it to tear it apart and look behind the walls and so it's it's really hard that's where you know hiring a really good inspector that works for you and doesn't work for the bank or the seller uh is important because you want to look at the at the roof but also the windows the windows people think that most leaks and all that stuff happens with bruce and honestly the windows are the biggest offenders in older homes if they're not flashed properly and we can tell you from experience that those inspectors that work for the bank they'll bring they call it like a flare gun and they can shoot the wall and it'll show if there's any moisture 100 do not work like we we did a house for a couple and completely gutted it and they had that reported the flare gun and it showed no signs of moisture that that house was it was it was basically like a sponge it was soaking wet yeah wow I've had several patients that were so sick and literally one sweet girl she was young in her 20s bought a house and and literally she told me about the soggy walls and of course it was filled with starchy batteries and eventually she was in a loss it was just horrible for her but she had no clue and I think many people until they get sick like you Jen or like me they don't really know that mold can cause this illness so or water damage or intrusion or and what used to rusty so true some of these leads certified the best you know cleanest ecological materials they're so airtight that all of a sudden you have this differential for condensation or a temperature or or just no airflow exchange let's talk about that briefly because that's something I don't know a lot about but I think it's so critical the ability for air to flow through the house properly tell us what do you want to look for between like attic and crawl space and air exchange and no air exchange and what kinds of things would a person think about with that airflow in a home sure and I mean kind of what you said is one of the things that we'd like to say is green does not mean healthy healthy can mean green but healthy all the time and so the HVAC and I'm going to speak just strictly from where we're at in Texas because it's really hard you know different climates but here what we are wanting is to not oversize the air conditioner that's one of the main main problems in in in high heat areas is that the AC contractors and the homeowners think that I want the biggest the baddest and I wanted to cool it down really fast yeah what happens is that it will cool it down really fast so fast that it creates condensation behind the walls got it we want our system size properly we only use variable speed multi-stage and so to kind of simplify that is is it's it's puffing air constantly it's not like a force of air you know every 10 15 minutes it's just puffing air and by doing that it is pulling fresh air in and then you know in return is taking the stale air out and exhausting it erv's hrv's help with that too yeah um go ahead sorry tell us what tell us what erv hrv I don't know for sure what what is that oh uh we're we're at in our climate and erv is more what we would energy recovery ventilation okay yes so basically what that does is it even even wider air conditioner or heater is working that thing you can set it to exchange the air in your home every 30 minutes it'll completely change the air in it and basically it brings in fresh air and it again is simplified it pre-cools it before it gets to the air conditioner so it doesn't have to condition it as much and so it saves on energy hey everybody I just stopped by to let you know that my new book unexpected finding resilience through functional medicine science and faith is now available for order wherever you purchase books in this book I share my own journey of overcoming life-threatening illness and the tools and tips and tricks and hope and resilience I found along the way this book includes practical advice for things like cancer and Crohn's disease and other autoimmune conditions infections like Lyme or Epstein Bar and mold and biotoxin related illness what I really hope is that as you read this book you find transformational wisdom for health and healing if you want to get your own copy stop by readunexpected.com there you can also collect your free bonuses so grab your copy today and begin your own transformational journey through functional medicine in finding resilience okay that makes sense because that that um degree of change is what we don't want right we don't want it to go from 80 degrees to 20 degrees or whatever i'm just randomly throwing at numbers but you don't want it to be that dramatic drop or okay what about um do you find much um first of all you guys are building homes right yes okay so you're not necessarily going into old homes and and uh inspecting a lot are you not really we we would encourage if we don't take on very many remodels and our kind of our our bar for remodels is are you ready to completely tear this thing apart that's that's what we're at so I love that because that's what it's literally and as I've been ever looking for houses I've always been like okay if there is an issue which I think any house that you're gonna buy there's gonna be some issues right you're just gonna expect that my thought is always okay this is something I'm willing to do like if it's a foundational issue it's like uh probably not um and then and I'd love to know as builders what are like the things where if you were to see a home or see a remodel or just knowing what you know about construction what are the kinds of water damage or kinds of issues um that you're like that's not probably not worth dealing with because obviously you have a window a little leak maybe that wall you could replace that feels doable maybe ceiling across space that feels doable foundational issues fill any thoughts on that yeah if you see cracks in the foundation they carry up the wall and then even outside on the brick I would say that's a that's a run for right yeah um you know if you have mold growing in your shower on the tiles that's probably uh you know either rip your you're gonna rip your entire shower out start over or that's a run for the hills yeah situation because shower pans on you know windows are the big offenders on the outside of your house showers on the inside are the worst you could ask any remodeling contractor and I would imagine they're gonna tell you the biggest issues they see are from showers not properly done and unfortunately most of the time they're not they're only waterproofing about two foot the wall and this just doesn't make sense to me there's a lot of things when I started uncovering like how how to build a house I was like why are why are they bringing in fresh air from the top of the roof where the asphalt shingles are instead of on the side of the home like these things like only waterproofing like two foot up there's a lot of just standard practices that are don't make sense right yeah and I mean that's kind of where where it comes into and we touched on this wall ago it's like you could line up five good builders and we're all can make it look pretty and it's gonna look like the architect intended now what separates good from great is people like us and I'm gonna brag on us is that we care just as much about what happens behind the wall or underneath the floor things that you as a customer would never see but that's that's where we really care about you know that's that's what's important and unfortunately in construction that's not really the case for the most part right and again like most of stuff going up quickly here is cosmetically gonna look okay or yeah and inside it's a disaster so Jen what did you learn obviously you went through this first before you guys met and then you started this company but you obviously learned on your own really kind of educated like what materials and stuff let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you would choose as Sam I'm gonna build a home with you guys and we're gonna choose materials what kinds of things would I want to think about um okay so yeah right everything um before I forget to mention the dehumidification is really important so that would be one thing for our yeah well unless you live in like Las Vegas but most places because even inside the homes you have showers going and you're cooking and so you know it's all close up tight humidity can build up and so keeping that humidity leveled down with the whole home dehumidification system that like ties in with your HVAC is awesome um also the air purifiers that basically like they can clean your air up to like hospital grade air those are essential too and those tie in as well um um basically starting from like like a broad scope on materials you look for things that don't have formaldehyde and it's used in a lot of building materials simply because it speeds up the curing process and um it makes I guess mass manufacturing more efficient economical but I would encourage people to look at the sds sheets and sometimes those are helpful sometimes they're not even contacting the manufacturer I mean that's what I did I actually would contact manufacturers like drywall and ask them specifically a lot of times they would be willing to tell me because it's my hope that's safe you know and it is kind of a fine line because even with with other builders we were kind of worried at first like oh well y'all are building healthy homes what does that make my house toxic but we've had like really good camaraderie and feedback I think people see that there is a value here and it's just something that people haven't really thought about yet is like oh what's the health of my house like how is how is the air and the water inside my home like affecting my health and so um also avoiding things with like petroleum products and um the only things that we use with petroleum products like certain types of inert plastics but there's no tar there's no like all the adhesives are all um VOC free so I think nowadays there's more out there than there used to be but it's still a matter of doing taking the time and doing research and to add on to that with doing the research I think what Jen said is important is calling the manufacturer because what one person might call zero VOC doesn't really mean anything to someone like Jen or someone who's sensitive to chemicals because I mean vinegar is a VOC but as a hazardous there's a big distinction there so even zero VOC some of the paints they have hazardous air pollutants and so that's that's where you have to really be you know perhaps or a big deal so hazardous air pollutants EPA has a home so that they have a list of HAPs because I would say too I know a lot about VOCs I know about measuring them about filtering them about the dangers and in all of that but HAPs I don't think that's something that's been on my vocabulary it's kind of a it's an that's probably not a new new term but we started using it just simply because there's so much misinformation about the VOCs that exempt VOC is like acetone ammonia even formaldehyde like you're in those paints that you buy like the big box store that say like no VOC green guard certified because it yeah I mean it's not trying to scare everybody but it's just like you said like you have to do your homework and actually look at it not read a certification on the label and be like okay cool and we always always encourage testing touching feeling smelling you know getting it in your in your hands and before you put it on your walls or in your you know wherever it's going to go and so like Jen said it's not meant to scare anyone that the good news is is there's there's ways to do it and you know we're proving that and you know they don't these we're not building mud huts or anything you know we're still building great custom homes you know yeah no that's exciting and Jen so many listeners I know will relate because I have a ton of patients that are incredibly chemically sensitive and half head mold exposure and this is just such a real issue like I said people all the time so let's just talk specifically say we're doing a kitchen the flooring like I had my office and I was trying to decide between wood or a luxury vinyl tile and I ended up deciding luxury vinyl tile with a lower VOC was better for me than in the office because the what what's thoughts on maybe I made a mistake but whatever right like what's thoughts on flooring the big one cabinetry is a big one you know um yes um where would you go with uh like okay the service flooring what kinds of things are so you can't go wrong with porcelain tile okay it is inert it is um zero maintenance you can just clean it with you know yeah whatever doesn't stain doesn't chip you'd have to really really like take a hacksaw to it for a check um some woods most engineered woods I wouldn't uh record putting in homes but there's a few brands out there that are very cognizant of the um like I think they're using soy based glues and PET plastic um components um carpet there's healthy carpets that are zero VOC wool but carpet harbors like pathogens and it gets dirty you know just I don't get a rug because you can wash a rug like carpet it's like there I couldn't agree more I've seen so much issues with carpet no matter how clean it is it just it holds stuff and so yeah I totally six years I think we've done two carpet yeah wow um and looking at when I was speaking of rugs like looking at your materials like um was it a fire retardants on it or a lot of those stain treatments they're made out of chemical similar to Teflon they're extremely like carcinogenic um and that was kind of one of the the hard things after we built the home we're like okay so now we have to furnish it we're like I was doing these interior design packages for people I'd be like hey West Elm or Crate and Barrow like you know what kind of foam do you use in your couch and they don't know because the furniture is like it's so fragmented that whole industry and so we actually started healthier homes furnishings because there was no place for us to source yeah you know decor and things you actually put in your house rugs yeah after it's built but going back to okay flooring said cabinets we that was that was a pain point solid wood like plywood and it hardwood yeah most cabinets are MDF or plywood or MDF or particle board components and those off gas like formaldehyde indefinitely so um I think cabinets are one of the worst sources in most yes I walked into like home people the other day and I saw the cabinet boxes and I'm so used to seeing irons and I was just like oh yeah people don't know I feel so bad and Jen is like when I same thing when I'm all good to those kinds of stores we won't name any names that sometimes I smell the glyphosate in the aisles I'm like oh it's just so awful like what people just assume is normal or in their houses they have these chemicals or they have the and it's really like we are all swimming in toxic soup as you and I know so well and to get to that clean space it feels like we're abnormal but the truth is like the world out there that's pending you know um all these chemicals is really uh it's an issue yeah yeah I think there's a as a growing body of people that are like whole food shoppers that are kind of I think starting to take note like of eating organic is important taking your supplements and that was a part of the reason why we wrote the book is yeah people just don't think about like they work out and eat right they don't think about their homes right so um and environmental medicine I mean gosh yeah it it's something that is so needed for me to get well I mean Dr Ray saved my life my house didn't save my life like Dr Ray saved it and then I had to get into a clean environment to get well to maintain and to maintain yes I love that I'm sure you probably heard me say but I always say clean air clean water clean food like it starts with these things there's no amount of supplements or IVs or magical protocols that you can do if you don't have those inputs that are really basic and there's say I'm in the office of the patient one hour a day it's those other you know 23 hours where they're in bed on a mattress that has flame retardants or with the kitchen with cabinets that are off-gassing or in there rolling around in the carpet that has all these dust and mites and VOCs and all these things so it really really does matter our environment um let's talk about air flow equality we talked just a little bit about that but I want to talk about like what do you put in a system of air filtration when you're building the home specialized um and obviously like I have standalone air filters too but what would you talk how would you talk about air quality and air filtration in a new home yeah so I mean one thing that we do is we filter the fresh air like if it comes in so our air filters and you know it varies by system but they're always going to be attached to the AC system so as the air comes in from outside it's filtered then a lot of the times like if people even have them are just let's say a standard AC setup with a filter the air comes in it blows around your house and then it goes to the return to get filtered it's like one of those things like life people do right and so you're you're bringing in there you know dirty air yeah cycling it and then you filter it before it goes back in the house so we we kind of wanted to catch it before it it gets there um we find that that helps and we're we're you know we have several different purifiers that we use um you know size depending on the system uh the climate you know anything like that so but I was actually in when I was in Home Depot the other day I saw these um sorry I keep saying it's like a big box store that's okay um I saw these air filters and they're just tiny and they're like they're thin and it's I mean I'm sure it helps somewhat but the air filters that we buy I mean it's a worthy investment and they're not super expensive they're like big suitcases yeah slide in and like the filters about six inches thick or higher is considered like super clean air and so looking at um the murve ratings is important whenever you're purchasing your filters um what is the system called but like the purifies I can't think of so we use it it's our filter also have an electronic basically a separate filter that that ionizes any of the of the particles you know it does pollen germs it kind of takes it to the next level yeah and maybe lights are another awesome add-on um for purification because air is tricky there's the ventilation purification um the thermal components of it I mean you have to kind of look at all of these different things and then work with someone that is a professional and we're not like we have HVAC professionals that we are with you know that size them correctly I mean they run all sorts of um they they they run basically engineering calculations that that would be like one of the main questions if somebody was getting talking to a builder about building a new house it's I want to meet your AC guy I want to know like is the system that that this person is installing are they trained on it because now they are like basically computers like they are very high tech it's not like it used to be where you had the mercury right and all that stuff and if they're done wrong it's really hard to get them fixed I mean you got to do it right from the start that's one of those kind of foundation brain issues that it's like piece of the house that you don't want to really mess around with and I can imagine because you're calculating air flow you're calculating I mean really like clean rooms in the hospital they have these whatever their quality engineer control people are literally mechanics of all of the mechanical engineers basically yeah yeah so that makes sense um what about you too you want to look at something that's like that's formaldehyde free or metal ducting which is more expensive but it's yeah once you have it it lasts forever and it's easy to clean um we've like we use they call it pookie I don't know what the actual term is for it but it's like the the mastic that goes around the components in the hgac systems you want to get something that's non-toxic for that too so it's thinking about all the different little pieces and asking you know yourselves yeah and what what are you using to put this together and then you go out and source it and then by the time it's time to install you got it there for them videos yeah that's kind of what I figured um we talked just a little bit about moisture and moisture is so huge because you and I didn't know Jen this mold thing is real and it's so common and it's becoming more and more common just because of poor quality quick construction water intrusion and everywhere you look in the news there's a hurricane there's a flood there's a every time I see these news stories I'm like oh those poor people because if they don't really know what they're doing it's going to be a mold nest eventually right on some of these yes yes so we talked about windows obviously a big deal roofs a big deal and and of course like showers like you said um what about grout I feel like a lot of people don't know how porous grout is and what's some thoughts about do you use grout how do you grout how do you waterproof it if they are using big tiles so you don't have a lot of grout what's some thoughts about a bathroom construction and what matters for mold reduction yeah so we depending on you know we're building custom homes and so the clients kind of dictate that we certainly encourage the bigger media tile to eliminate grout lines we also grout is something that's kind of if you're doing tile you're going to have it like it's so what do we do so we we take and we integrate or we have a water a penetrating water stop and instead of painting it on the grout lines and having to do that you know every year we mix it in with the water 50 50 so it's actually into the grout that's called fumes and formaldehyde blocker but we save it again Jen I want to be sure again fumes and formaldehyde blocker it basically is like 50 50 like integrated into the grout and so it it helps the waterproof it and then we also you know we talked about those showers right we're like standard is about two foot up from the shower floor we don't do that we waterproof all the way to the ceiling we use a system this is there are other brands but the one we use is a KERDI system I'm not you know I have an issue saying that one because it's so it's such an awesome system that if any water does get through that grout and gets behind there it hits this KERDI waterproofing and it just goes right to the drain like there's no it doesn't linger it's not going to hit drywall it's not going to get anywhere or it's like a plastic type there plastic that goes along the wall in the shower pan it's all integrated to the drain so it's really it's a really for the money and it doesn't cost that much more it's just it takes more time yeah that's kind of what you know you have to put in the time to do this right and also the tiles sticking with porcelain the porcelain's um or ceramic is more porous and porcelain's pretty much much like can't penetrate it same thing with um quartz okay so it'd be beautiful showers what about marble is that marble marble can yeah it's porous plus um you have to continually continually seal it okay a lot more maintenance the cool thing now days though with porcelain you can get slabs that look like marble and i mean they're they're beautiful and so yeah in my experience with clients patients um the showers are so like you said so often in often beautiful new homes it had no waterproofing and you know no maintenance the grout and it just went right through i've seen lots and lots of those showers that get pulled out and there's mold yeah so super common um what about basements under the underground level or you know below grade level um window wells what kinds of things would you think about with because basins always make me nervous because there's always that's right yeah so yeah what kinds of things would you think about when constructing say you wanted to finish a basement um and you're building the home or you have control over it what are the things that you're going to think about with basements below grade window wells anything particular there so we don't do a lot of basements and where we're at in texas but we we do some walkout basements where you're all kind of building into the side of the hill so the the first thing that we're going to do if we're building that house is we're we're going to pour the concrete we're not going to use cinder blocks i know a lot of people like to use cinder blocks to do their basements we pour concrete stem walls yeah we waterproof it and then we put a french drain system instead of just putting dirt back we're putting gravel with pipes and so the water you're not going to stop it from beating you but at least you can give it quick access to get away right and then it that that's kind of the the level that we take it it does cost a little bit more uh but i mean it it sure saves when you know if you have an issue it's and we also put tar that's what that's waterproof yeah waterproof like two layers of at least two or three layers it's probably overkill of waterproofing on the concrete so when we concrete is porous like you said yeah got it and then of course like when you say a french drain is that like a classical hope to a sump pump or what is that how does that work so the french drain in in our instance being on the side of the hill is the water is going to hit that concrete wall and instead of it just being dirt you fill it up with big gravel so it has to work its way to the bottom and then the drain pipe there and it can that makes perfect sense yeah it's for my ignorance no no that's fine i mean we it's great that's a super super important question is is we don't even like i said we don't do a lot of basements but even our foundations we don't like to put dirt up against it we always like to have some sort of a gravel barrier there so yeah that's how far as finishing out on the inside there are some paints um that are like very uh alkaline i guess you could say where mold can't grow on it and so using that as like a it's a primer so a pre primer yeah um would be helpful and then paint is such a big deal i mean that that's more area in your house is painted anything else by a long long shot and um see like using a paint that seals the walls has been critical for us in terms of being able to build healthy um so much so that we started like we we have our own paint back your own paint wow like having none of the nasty chemicals in it but it effectively seals the walls so if you are moving into like a remodel or if you're doing a basement sealing off any kind of off gassing or whatever's going on back there kind of helps with peace of mind and then you know the last component of the basement obviously it's going to be dehumidification to you know keeping that moisture out of there the window wells are going to just need to be really flash properly and they keep keep that you know you don't want to leak it so yeah that makes so much sense um so we talked a little bit about paint if you were to buy a home and you feel like you've gotten all the deal like there's no mold that you found and everything seems clean would you recommend repainting everything with something like you said just because of that being such a big deal that makes sense absolutely i mean it's it's a small cost for something that's going to last a very long time and plus like you get to pick your own pretty colors right right what about uh brands and styles and even including your own what would you recommend for paints what do you mean oh yeah like actual like what kinds of brands would people be looking for or maybe yours yeah so i mean your own your own paints it's good um that's all we use yeah i mean we we don't use any others so i i would without i wouldn't have a issue recommending it if i had missed it before you knew yeah that's fine that's perfect we can absolutely there are others out there and i'm not i'm not bad mouthing them sure they're fine we just we had never used them so yeah well i love the reason too why we made our own because i couldn't find any other paints that like were the level of of like less chemicals and kind of yeah no i love this it really is an industry that needs a revamp and you guys have clearly found all multiple solutions and i love it um jen in your experience in your first experience at the mold and then trying to find being so sick and trying to find a place to live and learning all that you could about building your first home what was the thing that was most surprising to you either cost-wise or just like wow i cannot believe the average person has no idea what would you say is that there was the biggest shock in that process is there anything in particular that comes to mind honestly it's the amount of chemicals we go in everything that goes into a home yeah i mean it's it's it's shocking and it's sad homes weren't always so closed up yeah and so it really didn't affect people like it does today i mean it's for energy code reasons which is excellent i mean we all want to be greener but that's over the last 30 years those have gotten stricter and stricter and if you look at the rate of chronic disease it's gone up too and i'm sure it's not just because of that but it's definitely a contributor now more people have chronic disease than people that don't um so that was that's shocking but yeah it's just it's what people put in their houses and they just don't think about it you know you're right the awareness yeah as a as a builder too i mean and i gen i'm sure i know she knows but there are so many so many moving parts and materials that go into a build like tar that most people don't even won't even think about working with a builder and so that's that's where it becomes important of doing that research and knowing you know okay this material is going in let me find the solution because there's solutions there's work around there's materials like gas natural gas right yeah it's not good for you and so we don't really put it in homes unless people want it um but a solution for like a fireplace that's natural gas is to actually have them they're called direct vent and so they vent out the side of the home and they're completely enclosed and so no gas can get in your house but you still have the warmth you still have like the limp feel of the gas fireplace i love that you mentioned that gen because the studies have shown and i am in my condo here there's still a gas range that the benzene that's off-gassing even when the stove is off is there so like there is you know natural gas and benzene products which are carcinogenic even when we're not using that stove so i love that you said that because most people are not aware and like you said the clean air people don't know what they're literally um walter crinion who is a colleague of dr reyes as well uh he would say 80 of our environmental toxic lodges from the air that we breathe and probably know more commonly from the homes that we live in which is like you said not to scare people but i'm all about awareness and i deal with the people who have illness and have dealt with mold like you have and they want to do the things they can to be clean and live clean and live well so this is critical information um you talked about some things that were like like in the shower that special um material and in design and it wasn't super expensive what would you say is the biggest thing that does cost a little more and obviously to me these things are worth it but what would you say where would you say in a super clean home that you're gonna spend there's probably a lot of places you're gonna spend more money but what are the things that might be a little more surprising that you're gonna want to put in more money in these things yes for us and there's a lot of misinformation out there about insulation yes and so we use closed cell foam insulation and that i want to make that distinction that that most people are using open cell and it is nasty nasty stuff it's like a sponge closed cell once it cures in 24 hours it's hard as a rock not going to off-guess we take it to the next level and we seal it up anyway or seal it we seal the entire cavity of the home wow okay so when you walk into one of our new homes you're not gonna you're not even gonna smell wood you're not gonna smell anything it's it's we even had a we had an appraiser one time say this this wasn't a new house because it didn't smell like paint and i'm like fumbling for my phone i'm like can you say that again it's like the best commercial so our insulation our closed cell insulation it is quite a bit more expensive than than standard insulation i would also say that the the other thing that's a little more expensive is our we will not build a house without putting a full-time superintendent on that job to manage that job to make sure that what we're telling our clients that we're going to do is actually getting done and so if a builder's not willing to do that if they're just driving by once a day that's there's no way to guarantee that the the tradespeople are you know if they ran out of our adhesive and they ran to the truck and grab just whatever from the big box store to finish the job they're not doing it to be malicious they're just trying to finish their job oversight is huge and so the oversight is a big deal to make sure that those little things don't happen because plus they know what products we use the project managers or the conduit between the homeowners i mean it's all it's important i think to have your like your little family the yeah your side for building a home because i mean it's where you're going to spend 90 percent of your time is inside especially people that work from home tremendous and i love that you said that because so often especially nowadays when workforce is harder to get and whether it's medical field or construction field the quality of the workers sometimes isn't as like it used to be just hard to find really good people right and these maybe people who are well intentioned but if they're not trained and they're certainly not engineers or they don't have the knowledge level that you do i really love that extra step that you guys do because so critical and it's rare like you said i have all these constructions next door i'm like watching and i don't know what i'm doing but i'm like i'm flabbergasted to see what's happening in the average home and apartment and things well i always tease our clients they're you know when we're interviewing them they'll say what's what's the hardest thing and i always say overcoming what the last builder did to you know proving that we're not the same yeah well tremendous well thank you for your work in the world if you guys are listening you want to for sure get their book this is called healthier homes a blueprint for creating a toxin free living environment published september 2022 i will be sure wherever you're listening to have those links below so you can grab a copy on amazon or anywhere you get books this is such a needed resource and like i said the beginning if you didn't hear me this is a beautiful book you're going to want to own it and hold it and flip through it it's really really well done which speaks to the work that you do last question i just want to leave with jen and rusty two what do you wish that you would have known 20 years ago before all this what it's like the one piece of advice that you wish you would have known years ago i think i'm guilty of it too um not really taking i get working out eating right all that kind of thing not taking the time to really take care of myself and my body until things break and that's if i had this knowledge 20 years ago and like really started thinking about what i was subjecting my body to i wouldn't have ever lived in a moldy apartment you know i mean of course that it's hard to say because a lot of times it's behind the walls and you just don't know but i think that um maintaining your health and wellness not letting it get bad and then trying to fix it maintaining it is like it's what everyone should be striving for brilliant and hopefully this interview has even brought some awareness where people are like oh i thought my home was okay but i'm not feeling so well and so thank you guys for the work that you're doing in the world thank you for taking the time today absolutely love the work you're doing and appreciate you so much yeah thank you really appreciate it enjoyed it