 Only on Y254 and if it's Tuesday, it's entrepreneurship Tuesday right here on Y in the morning. Nothing but good music coming your way. Oh yes, my name is Michelle Ashira. You can follow me across all my social media handle. That is at Michelle Ashira at Ramagoku. So in this particular segment, we dive into the health segment. So we look at mental health. Being the month of May, we are creating more awareness when it comes to mental health and making sure that you're doing alright. So we'll be talking about different aspects when it comes to when you speak about mental health. What does that mean actually? And we also look at different ways to even carbon make sure that we are healthy in terms of the mental aspect of it. So in the studio, I'm joined with Dr. Antonia Wangongdu. She is the senior medical doctor. She's a senior medical doctor, healthcare management consultant, relationship and life coach. Hi, Dr. Antonia. How are you doing? Alright, so you wear a couple of hats. Yes, I do. Yes, for someone who is meeting you for the first time. Can you give us a brief description of who Dr. Antonia, who she is, but from the titles that we have gone through? Absolutely. First of all, thank you so much for having me here today. As you've heard, I wear several hats. The main one being a medical doctor, which I've been practicing, which I've been doing for the last 13 years. Thereafter, I specialized in healthcare management. Therefore, I do consultancy for a number of healthcare facilities. Most recently, in the last two years, I have been a life coach, a life and relationship coach, which touches a lot on mental health, both in adults and children. So, starting us off, how would you define mental health? Well, mental health is... sorry, go ahead. It's okay. Mental health, I'd say, is the absence of any kind of... is the wellness of the health of the mind, the body and the spirit. We know that all of them are connected. And therefore, when we talk about mental health, it is the absence of illness in any of those three areas. Yes. Because most people, when we know this is their assumption, when we speak about mental health, we tend to just think about the negative aspect of it, where we think about depression, think about anxiety. So, what are the four types of mental health that when we speak about mental health, that we can actually direct our mind that this is actually what we are talking about? All right. Thank you for that question. So, the four types would be talking about social mental health. We're talking about physical mental health, psychological mental health. And last but not least, financial mental health. There are different areas in which one can be unwell mentally, not necessarily having an illness, for example, a cold or a flu, but rather having an illness psychologically, socially, financially, even spiritually. Now we even talk of spiritual health. Yes. Oh, the spiritual health. The real spiritual health. So, it's like a 360. It's a 360 kind of approach to mental health, where we're not just talking about the typical kind of health, where when we talk about, when we hear someone talking of having a mental illness, the first thing that jumps to mind is, for example, depression or schizophrenia or anxiety. There could be also something such as spiritual mental health or even social mental health where one is not able to socialize well with their peers or with other people. Yes. So, it's a 360 kind of approach to health. All right. Well, that's some of the things because it's very, when it comes to mental illness, I don't know if that's the right time to go for it. If someone is going through, for instance, depression or even anxiety attacks because they are very common, how would you really identify, even on a personal level, that I am actually not okay? Because we get caught up in life. We get caught up in work. You know, you get caught up with just social life, per se. And you don't really get to actually do self-awareness and realize, by the way, I am not okay. This is not how normally I would function. At what particular point on a personal level that you actually realize that I am not okay? Thank you for that question. It actually is called mental illness. And I think it's high time we stopped stigmatizing the name mental illness because it is an illness. You could also be having a disorder whereby the mental illness comes together with other illnesses in the body. But for today's purpose, we'll talk about mental illness. And the first thing about knowing whether one has a mental illness or not is having a lot of self-awareness. And that is by doing regular internal checkup. An internal checkup is whereby you internalize everything that has been happening in your life, say in the last one week. Not even this one week, but in one day, two days, last one week. And try and identify what could have changed. Any changes in behavior, changes in appetite, changes in the pattern of sleep, changes in how the mood of a person. So all changes that could be leading to some kind of mental disturbance, as I would call it now, need to be investigated. So once one realizes that they are having some mental disturbance, then it's always advisable to seek some help to identify whether they are suffering from a mental illness, a mental disorder. And also to know whether the illness or the disorder is temporary or it's something that is, I would say, that has been there for a long time. Okay. All right. And there's also the angle whereby you have a family member who is going through a mental illness and you don't really know how to go about, even a friend. You don't know how to go about giving the support system that he or she requires. So what would be your advice on that particular angle? That becomes very tricky, especially in our African setting where we don't even like to hear that a family member could be suffering from mental illness. I think it's important to first of all approach such a person with love and care because that's one thing that many people with mental illness tend to crave for. So once you notice that there could be a family member who is struggling and you as not necessarily as a health practitioner but as not just an ordinary individual realizes that this person is suffering to approach a person with love and care and not to stigmatize or to confront, but rather to express concern about the kind of maybe behavior that you have noticed this person is having or changes in mood that the person has been having. And then you leave it open for the person to disclose to you whether they're having some kind of mental attack or kind of a mental disorder. It's always good to leave it to the person to have that choice to make whether they would like to disclose it to you or not. And also not to take it personally if they feel that they are not in a position to speak with you about what it is they're suffering from, then the best would be to just offer your support, tell them that you're there for them, should they need you and then leave it at that. That's usually the best way or rather what I've seen to work quite well for family members who are struggling with a mental illness. So you just be patient? A lot of patients, a lot of patients and also seek a lot of knowledge about what you think this person might be having. If the person does tell you, for example, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and for example, you don't know what it's about, then before you even try to offer support, it's good to also try and educate yourself about what is bipolar disorder? How does it manifest? What are the treatment options? Where can one get treatment? So that also you're giving this person some value and you're able to help this person go through the illness. Yes. Oh, wow. I think that explains a lot because we would, as friends rather, this aspect whereby you would really like your other person to just open up and tell them you don't understand why they wouldn't open up and just shed light on what they're actually going through. Can one prevent mental health problems? Mental health problems, illness, that is. Is there things that we can do to just make sure that we keep saying and we don't get to the point where it's extreme to the point where it's maybe depression or just anxiety attacks? And well, actually, it's probably could also explain further when you talk about anxiety attacks. What are we actually looking at? Okay, thank you for the question. In terms of prevention, I would say it's twofold because you know there is that mental illness which is caused by genetic factors. So it becomes very difficult to control it if, for example, there are several members of your family who are suffering from mental illness. It becomes almost inevitable that at some point in your life you are going to struggle with some kind of mental illness. But however, awareness is always better. You know, knowing that, for example, my father or my mother had a particular mental illness and to be on the lookout for certain signs and symptoms that would be suggestive that I myself might be suffering from mental illness. And then also, again, these mental disorders that come about because of the kind of environments that we are living in, we find that many people are working in very toxic environments. People are living in neighborhoods that are not safe or they are in, for example, relationships that they know they shouldn't be in. So there's that element of trying as best as one can to get themselves out of a situation that would inevitably lead to mental illness. Yes. All right. And because I feel like we, as I mentioned earlier all, we can really get caught up in life. And is there like a process of self-assessment to know that actually I am Manuel? There is a process of self-assessment. If you're doing it for yourself, then what one would do is what we call a P9 form. A P9 form is a form you can download easily online. And it takes you through a series of some few questions and each question has a score. So for example, one of the questions would be how many days in a night are you getting adequate sleep? And if it's less than one, you know, less than five. So for each particular value, then you score yourself. Depending on the value of the result of the P9, then you'll be able to know if you could be suffering from mental illness or a mental disorder. That's an easy to use tool that one can download online. And there are many others, but the one I know we use in Kenya a lot is a P9 form. If one goes to a healthcare facility, then in that case, then there's what we call the DSM-5 criteria, where it's much more thorough and the doctor is able to take the patient through a series of several questions, cerebral analysis to see the exact kind of mental illness or mental disorder that they could be suffering from. All right. In the department of you being a life coach and relationship? It's a life and relationship coach. All right. I feel like it all connects to each other. And I feel like they complement each other when it comes to mental health. Because as you mentioned earlier, we can be in relationship which are toxic. And one of them is maybe an ascetic kind of a relationship and lots of manipulation involved. When you meet such clients, because this is what they are known for, you know, a couple of probably years down the line, the trauma is there. So what would be the process looking like? Because I feel like when it comes to an ascetic relationship, for instance, one celebrity, Rihanna, that she mentioned that she was one with Chris Brown and she will constantly go back. That is doing the interview with Oprah Winfrey that she will constantly be going back to that person. And it took around like seven times before she like walked out of it. What usually goes on when it comes to the victim's mindset and the process of just, you know, getting out in a toxic relationship like that? Life and relationship coaching is very interesting because the solution inevitably has to come from the person who has come to seek my help in this case. So it's usually not for me to tell them that, you know, you're in a toxic relationship, you need to get out. What usually happens is that through different tools and different guidelines, we are able to go through whatever dilemma the person has brought to the table and help them to see the kind of relationship that they are in. And then the ultimate decision has to be there. Case in point, like you said, Rihanna went back seven times before she was able to completely leave. That's probably because psychologically or mentally she wasn't ready or fully convinced to leave that narcissistic or toxic relationship. It happens a lot, especially amongst our young people who have also grown up with a lot of influence of alcohol and other substances whereby you find that your mind is also not, is not operating at the best capacity because you're many times intoxicated or under the influence of certain substances. So your mind is not very clear all the time. So usually life coaching and relationship coaching needs someone to really call themselves for a meeting and decide that I'm ready to tackle the issues that could be making me not progress to the level that I'd like to progress to. And then to make those difficult decisions and stick by them. Again, it's a constant process. It's a constant process. It's not that, you know, you do the life coaching say once and you're okay. Many times it's something that you'll have to keep on not necessarily going back to the coach but at least coaching yourself to know what are your triggers, what would make you go back to such a situation and how to prevent them and also learning a lot about how to be kind to oneself because I also feel that we live in a society where there's so much harshness and being mean to ourselves and how we talk to ourselves, learning how to speak to ourselves with kindness and compassion also does help one to overcome any kind of mental health challenges that they may be having. I think it requires a lot of patience as a patient. And it's not like a one day event. It's a consistent deliberate and being intentional. And I like the way you've put it. As long as I am not willing to, you know, make that move and at the end of the day it boils down to me. Even though we do this, even though we have the session, the counseling sessions and all that. Let's speak about self-worth and self-love because it also boils down to that. How can you build onto that because attempt to get into toxic environments because we lack self-worth, we lack self-love. There's esteem issues as well. How do we build that? Building that again is something that takes time and also to realize at what point in your life did you lose that self-worth or self-love or self-care? And for many people they realize that they lost it in childhood. Where probably they grew up with very strict parents and again I'm not here to chastise the parents and say that they did wrong. I think many parents did what they knew at that time, at the circumstances of the time they tried to raise their children as best as they could. However, there are also those parents who also probably were suffering from mental illness and did certain things to lessen or lower the self-esteem of this person. So the first step usually is to identify what, at what point did this person say it's Antonio I'm doing my own internal reflection. I'll say at what point did I lose my self-esteem or my self-worth? At what point did I stop loving myself? Have I ever loved myself really? And then from there on is to now start healing that inner child, start healing that inner child. And once that inner child starts to get healed then the adults can get healed. But it's very hard for an adult to heal themselves yet they're still bearing the wounds from childhood, teenage years, a lot of trauma. So it's always very good to try and do a lot of introspection and here many times people talk about just forgive whoever did that terrible thing to you and move on, forgiveness doesn't take a day. Let's be honest with ourselves and know that forgiveness can take time and you could always first of all work on yourself and say I'll forgive when I'm able to forgive but let's also not push ourselves to do things that sometimes are not practical. You know, we're told you look at the person today they've done this and tomorrow you forgive them many times it doesn't work like that. I like the way you've put it like forgiveness takes time and then there's the aspect I learned when we started this conversation there's the spiritual health you mentioned right here. Now there's a disconnect because when you go to church there are certain doctrines that will teach you that you know, forgive and forget. Maybe you went through a traumatizing experience they tell you pray about it. Okay, things will be well which I believe in prayer and I believe actually in God but now there's because you have to go through the emotions and then comes in a life coach or even the counseling sessions, right? Now in a situation where there's that level of disconnect how do you handle that? Well it becomes a bit tricky because you know, Kenya we're a very religious country and what I try and ask people is to look towards spirituality more than religiosity because when you're a more spiritual person then you'll understand these concepts of forgiveness better but it's true that many times people will go and seek help from churches and churches have played a key role in helping people to recover and to heal but sometimes is that kind of push to make a person you know, want to make a person heal quickly or get over it quickly and it's not always practical so what I say is that introspect a lot of introspection is important and learning to know that you know for example if I went through a particular trauma in my youth and I'm trying to go through the phases of healing try and see is this person helping me in a way that makes sense to me or is it that I'm trying to be pushed into a corner to forgive them and forget and then maybe after a year later I have a kind of a mental breakdown because I really didn't forgive what I did was just to kind of push it at the back of my mind so I would encourage churches also to engage us in how they're also engaging their members on issues especially to do with trauma and to also go through trauma training and realize that yes it is true in many doctrines Christian Islam many of them they talk about healing and they talk about our forgiveness but there's also the issue of time which I think many of us ought to ourselves the time to allow ourselves to heal I love that time to allow yourself to heal speak to me about affirmations the importance of affirmations because they're very quiet rampant out there you know do affirmations and then you have meditations and if you're in a better position or into yoga you can as well do that how is that impactful when it comes to you know building up your positive mental health dear thank you personally I love affirmations I love anything to do with affirming yourself because I believe that only a person who affirms themselves is really going to get to that place where they truly believe the things that they're saying and again with affirmations it doesn't mean that once you affirm yourself today then that becomes your truth from that day forward it's an affirmation is something that you have to say over and over until you start to believe that that is the truth about yourself for example an affirmation could be I am intelligent I am smart I am worthy I'm kind you know those are affirmations that for many people they have to repeat them over and over until they believe they believe in themselves and from there then they're able to to have I would say a good mental health or good healthy mental status yes and then about self talk self healing self love all this comes again with knowing oneself and knowing that these things are important and especially in the day and age that we live in especially with the era of social media where everyone seems to be living this absolutely amazing and glamorous life you know and we see these people posting a lot of soft life and we wonder what am I doing wrong that you know I'm not able to have this soft life yet this person seems to be on holiday every two months oh yeah every other day every other day they're on holiday so the pressure piles up the pressure piles up so it's important to also realize that social media sometimes is you know trying to create an image that is not really there so understanding yourself loving yourself understanding the circumstances that you are in at this particular moment in time and then from there knowing that you know things do get better and life does get better but understanding yourself and knowing that sometimes what we see is not what is really there many times it's an illusion yes I love that so as we wind up if someone is who's been following up this conversation and they're in a dark place they're trying to find that light at the end of that tunnel and they feel like you know I am tired you know I am really tired what would you tell that person? Well I would tell them first of all I would applaud them for you know realizing that they are tired and realizing that they maybe would need some help the next thing I would ask them is to look for help help is out there if you check I know in Kenya sometimes there's a thing of you know it's expensive you know getting a counselor or a therapist is expensive but are those who would do it for free you know because you find somebody who genuinely is in a very dark space they can't afford to pay for counseling but it's very difficult to walk away from such a person and you'd genuinely offer it for free so I would ask that person to look for help whether it be in their church whether it's within school many schools have counseling centers or workplaces some workplaces now are investing in their staff and offering an in-house counselor to make sure that their staff are mentally okay so that's a person to get help Alright if someone wants to keep the conversation going even interact with you and seek help in different areas of their life because you cover the whole 360 when it comes to life and relationship coaching as well, mental health inclusive how can they reach out to you? Thank you my social media handle is Dr. Antonia Wangui on Instagram on Facebook and I'm Kui Antonia they could also reach me through my office line I'm happy to give that it is 0796 9006 711 Okay you can repeat that Sure Absolutely it's 0796 9006 711 Alright thank you very much Dr. Antonia for creating time to be with us Thank you just looking at mental health on a 360 degree level Alright that is Dr. Antonia Wangui she's a senior medical doctor healthcare management consultant relationship and life coach looking at mental health being me which is a mental health awareness month so we are of course pushing the narrative of positive mindset and creating self awareness of oneself and you know spreading love okay self-worth self-love is all that matters no matter what goes on in your life so keep saying keep safe I try to for channel as you can find us across all our social media handles at Michelle Ashira is there you can find me across all my social and trauma Google is there you can find him across his social so be right back