 All right, fantastic welcome back. You're still hanging out with us right here on Why In The Morning. My name is Brian Sakwan. I'm so excited. Many thanks for joining us. But before we get too far, let's have some sort of interaction. And that includes our socials, and that's Facebook, Instagram, and on Twitter as well. It's out for you for a full channel. And you can find me at Brian Sakwan 01. And then the hashtag is Why In The Morning. This segment is all about entrepreneurs. And today I'm going to talk about how to create an amazing, bold, and beautiful brand that's actually recognizable by people out there. Of course, we live in a world where people are setting up a lot of businesses and especially trying to get into the digital space that has taken over the whole entire globe by storm. How do you create something that will actually be recognized, appreciated, attract clients, customers, even not only just business-wise, even as a person individually to a single individual best level as well. That's what we're going to delve into and much more. And joining us on set today, we have a very powerful gentleman. He is Mr. Moinesi Musaila. Just a little bit brief or overview about who he is. He has been in the space for over 12 years as a senior management position in various multi-national, both in South Africa and Kenya as well. He is also a corporate lawyer and in communication, he's also a communication professional where the master's degree in international trade and commercial law from the University of Wheatwaterstrand in Johannesburg. He also founded House of Major in 2014, a strategic and communication firm based in Nairobi, Kenya, right here as well. Aside from that, he has also developed and contributed to the personal brand of thousands of individuals from politicians, corporate executives, creative artists and media personalities as well, okay? That's where I come in. He's also a certified trainer, licensed by the prestigious protocol School of Washington in the United States. And he's also a global leader in etiquette, protocol services to governments and corporations, worldwide, also to leaders around the globe. Mr. Moinesi Musaila, joining us live in studio. Welcome to I in the morning. Thank you very much, Brian. When I hear my bio being read out like that, it sounds quite intimidating, but I assure you it is. Why? Why? That's you. That's like your details now being shared with the public. Thank you. It scares you? Well, it's good to be here. I just, I'm not used to hearing, yeah, of course. People are liking your successes. Yeah, sure. Be humble. Anyway, that's what I'm getting. But welcome. I understand it's like a period of very long time before you've been here. Welcome back. Thank you so much. It's good to be back. Let's get to know you a little bit. Like how did you get into this space before we talk about how to come up with a brand that a lot of people can recognize? Like how did you get into this niche exactly? Until to a point, your brushing shoulders to these elite people in the corporate space and in other spaces as well. Sure. I think growing up, I've always been a people person. And I find myself in situations, circumstances, and jobs which require me to face people. My first job was as a waiter and a coffee barista in Johannesburg. I did that for a couple of months when I was very young. I was about 16. And I enjoyed the interaction with people. I enjoyed mingling with them, listening to them, watching their behavior, how they do things. I went on to do promotions, even as I was studying my law degree. And even in that space, I realized that I do enjoy the aspect of people. I like watching how people move, how they behave, how they dress, how they interact, what's successful, what's not, what works and what doesn't. And then when I graduated with my degree, I went full-time into business development for different companies. I was absorbed full-time in one multinational and then I moved to another and then I moved to another. But in the same job, I was always interested in what does it take to make a successful human interaction, whether it's a commercial interaction or a social interaction. I've always been fascinated by that. It's one of those things that can't leave you. You know, certain people have certain things like a musician has that deep need to listen to music or to play an instrument or to be involved with sound. My need has always been the same, that people fascinate me. So I worked professionally in different roles, senior roles, I've been a general manager, I've been a business development manager, I've been in marketing, sales, PR, anything that involves people and human interaction. Training and teaching as well has been obviously a very natural step in that direction. And then in 2014, like you mentioned, I went on my own and started a consulting outfit, which now does that for as many people as possible. Consults on how to make their brand and their image, their perception and their reputation something worthwhile. Because they say that reputation can have far-reaching effects on how people perceive you and what decisions they make about you. There's actually a book, The 48 Laws of Power, which says one of the laws is guard your reputation with your life. So I'm in the business of reputation management. Right, interesting, interesting. I love those details because we live in a world where the social media things are happening really fast. Somebody is doing content on TikTok, they go viral next time, they're getting endorsements. Now let's use that example. For instance, somebody has just gone viral, they're now being seen in countries like Turkey, the US, Canada, etc. And then they've gained, they've amassed all these numbers and now brands wants to start working with them. But then they're not even ready to present that image of what that client wants. For example, if that person approached you and wanted to collaborate something that will actually speak for that client, how can they go about it? I think you've mentioned something very interesting, which is you get to a point where you have a lot of numbers and viewership, which is very attractive to corporates and individuals who want advertising reach, which is what numbers give you. But advertising reach is very different from reputation. Advertising reach is a commercial approach when it comes to getting your name and brand and logo out to as many people as possible. But once you've gotten that name and brand out, does it do anything? Is there any decision that will be made after that? And I think that's where now the true essence of branding comes into play. So you can have even a million or 10 million followers, but are you speaking to the right audience, to the right type of people? And is it a brand that has enough of an impact to make people sit up, take notice and actually do something about it? Because whenever we look at people like that, they're referred to as influencers. And influence is the ability to get people to behave in a way that you want them to behave. But most people have taken the term influencer to mean someone who has a lot of reach. So the minute you have a lot of reach, you are perceived as being an influencer, but the correct term is influential. So the difference between being an influencer and being influential is very different. Being influential means that you have a lot of reach. Many people listen to you, whatever it is that you're doing, people enjoy interacting with your content. But are you able to influence people to behave and move and act in a certain way, whether it's purchase a product, go to a certain hotel, or whatever it is that you as a client want them to do. So my job is to try and make sure that there's the right mix of being influential, but also having influence, to be able to make that brand have an impact and stick and be memorable. It doesn't, if you, you know, there's a Kiswaili saying, kupigi and buzi, guitar. Right. You can have the right music, the right, you can have everything set, but it's the wrong audience, it's the wrong environment, it's the wrong time. Wrong time, absolutely, absolutely. So there are many factors to consider when it comes to branding. And the promise that you're making, are you able to fulfill it? Is it one that has substance? Is it something that is linked to the environment in terms of triggers? There's so many things to consider. Wow, I like that. And I think we can stay right there for a bit. Like for, let me use, for example, as Y254, maybe we want to, but we want to adjust our audience a little bit. We don't want to just appeal to the youth, but we also want to tap into even the older generation. Of course, they might not be savvy with some of the topics that we talk about that includes social media loads now. How can we appeal to them to a point? We're not losing them. Yes, we have them, but they're not here as much, but at least we are appealing to them. How can we do that now? We must remember that human beings are not robots. We're not inanimate objects. We have hearts and minds. So hearts and minds is where you need to start. You need to be able to connect with people at an emotional level, because if someone can feel and connect with you emotionally, then the logic will then follow, and then they will start to decide, is this content relevant for me in my space in what I'm doing? Most people develop content and do things with what they think is best, but branding is really about what does the other side think? What does the customer, what does the target audience think about what it is that I'm doing, and are they in a position to interact with it? So there's a bit of research that goes into that. Very few assumptions. You don't make assumptions. You always try and understand and have intelligence on the target audience, but then you also want to make sure that you are aligned with the environment of the target audience. You're doing and saying and behaving in a way that is comfortable and appealing to the target audience. So if the target audience is to now maybe raise the demographic to maybe an older market, then you need to be able to do and say things that are comfortable for them. I'm sure you're giving them your meeting, that niche and that target marketer audience and what they need. Absolutely. There's a time I interviewed one of my guests here who is from the media council of Kenya. They were saying they're doing a research where they want stations to not only just give the audience what they need to know or hear, but also something that they can hold onto in the future. I was thinking, I was looking at it like, are we programming to just like also, like are we doing future programming or we're doing current programming where yes, we are feeding our audiences, this is what we're doing this morning, but in the afternoon also, you can still tap in and use it. So I really got lost there. Do you think it made a lot of sense? Yeah, it does. There's a saying that says, if you speak to a man in a language that he understands, you'll be able to connect with him. But if you speak to a man in his language, you have him for life. And so you must be able to connect with people according to what they are most comfortable with. So if you take an example of, let's say a chimpanzee, a fish and a caveman, as just a rudimentary example. If I, as a long standing Arsenal fan, go to a chimpanzee, a fish and a caveman, and I talk to them about our title, Chances, This Season, under Mikael Artheta, all three of them will look at me like, what are you talking about? They can't relate to what I'm saying. But if I connect with a caveman and I start talking about caves and fire and hunting and making tools, I then have, remember hearts and minds, I then have a way of connecting with him, dropping his guard, and then now we can start to discuss things like sports and football or whatever it is. If I approach the fish with water and swimming and currents and things like that, things that are relevant to the fish, to his environment, to whatever, then at least I have an ability to connect with the fish. Same thing with a chimpanzee. If I start talking about trees and swinging from trees and that kind of thing, at least we have some level of connection and then the dialogue can follow because everything starts and ends with communication. Etiquette is how you make people feel comfortable with you. So etiquette is just the beginning. And the etiquette of a caveman is not the etiquette of a fish, it's not the etiquette of a chimpanzee. Every person has what they need to feel comfortable. When in Rome, as the Romans, you might want to come and say, well, we want to be dynamic and revolutionary and change the game and be disruptive and all of these things that are very nice catch words. But at the end of the day, people like to do what people like to do and they like to feel comfortable where they like to feel comfortable. So it's very important that you do things that are not too far removed from what they are and what they know, but also if you want to influence them and tilt them to a different side, start where they are. Instead of trying to come from the outside in, start from the inside out. This is reminded me of the Cardi B and the rest of the musicians where you'll hear a lot of people gravitated towards her music and you'll hear somebody from a religious setting say, no, you can't listen to that kind of music because it doesn't resonate with our value system. Now, let's come back to now a company from a company perspective. We want to attract numbers, but then we live in a world where there's, I'll say, celebrities are being used to influence and a lot of the fact that you mentioned is a difference between influencer and influential. Now, if you were to bring an influencer, for example, or somebody who is influential, what are some of the things that they should be briefed on before they take up that brand? Because everybody wants numbers, even stations, not just stations, even individuals. Everyone wants to have 100,000 followers everywhere on social media, at least. You know, it makes them, you know... Influential. Yeah, exactly. For example, if they were to do that, what are some of the things that they should consider? I think always know where you're going and what you want. Most people build the plane while it's flying. They start with, I know I need this, but if you actually delve down, you ask, why, why do you need it? Why do you need this influencer? Oh, because they have numbers and they will help us grow. Okay, but why? You know, the why has to... Good question. The why has to be answered first because the end game starts with the objective. What are you trying to accomplish? If you can go into the future when all is said and done, once you have those 100,000 followers, it's not just about the followers. What are you doing? What is the station doing? What is the business doing at 100,000? What are they actually accomplishing? What is the 100,000 for? You know, and if you start with that in mind, then you can now start to build backwards and start to put in place certain strategies and elements and components of which this influencer is just one element of that. It has to be a holistic strategy. People make the mistake of leaning so much on an influencer, thinking that they are going to take you to the promised land. No, they are a tool. They are a component of a much bigger machinery, but you have to be very clear from your business, from your objective, what do you want to accomplish right at the end? And there's a very famous book by this guy, he's quite revolutionary in the field of marketing and people with Simon Sinek. He says, start with the why. Start with the why. Why, what's the whole point of what I'm doing? Why do I need the numbers? Why do I need the numbers? What is it for? When you talk about root cause analysis, where you ask why five times, by the fifth why, you will get to really understand truly what is the need that we're trying to accomplish. But if it's just very surface, if it's just a very surface consideration because someone said that it's a good idea, I think it's a good idea to have this influencer. You see, they have a million followers. If we get them, at least we'll be able to get 50,000. No, it doesn't work. That should not be a part of the reason. No, absolutely not. This influencer got to where they got because of their content, because of their demographic, because of what they are doing, and they're very targeted and they know what their why is. If your why does not match the influencer's why, then forget about it. So as you're picking an influencer, you must be able to understand that this person is speaking to the same people that I'm speaking to, that I want to speak to, and the reason that I want to speak to them needs to be aligned to the reason why this influencer is speaking to them as well. Right. Before we come back now to an individual perspective, who wants to shine and have that visible bold brand. Now, let's talk about how marketing plays a huge role in propelling a brand. And I'd really like you to talk about how some of their strategies somebody can use to ensure that you know, because of course stands, I've seen celebrities do a lot of stands, like somebody went at a spa, they pretended like somebody was cheating, and then it was all dramatic. And then in the end, I had to come to this spa at 7 p.m. I'm like, what, he used violence to tell us that you can come to this spa, like was there any other option like you guys would have used to, you know, create visibility for it. So please talk about how that can be, you know, incorporated, especially marketing. The word market is a place where buyers and sellers meet. So marketing is the business of bringing buyers and sellers together, that's it. As long as the buyer comes and the seller comes, you have achieved marketing. Once these two people meet and they connect, then that's what you've achieved. So in that example that you gave, if that's what it took to bring the buyers and the sellers together, then that's marketing. That's an element of marketing. And so, you know, if you're interested in marketing, you need to figure out what will it take to bring a buyer here? What will it take to bring a seller to the same space? And once they meet, can we achieve now the objective of them meeting, which is the sale? So, you know, you've mentioned an example which perhaps you are not comfortable with because maybe you are not the target. It's not for you. And this is what we must realize is that marketing and branding is very specific. It's target specific. There will be people who will be for Cardi B and there will be people who will not be for Cardi B. There will be people who will be for Donald Trump and there will be people who will not be for Donald Trump. Yesterday, our country was at a standstill because their people are either side of the divide and they believe and they resonate with different ideologies from different people. And your market is your market. And you have to be clear on the type of individual, whether it's in terms of age, level of income, level of education, status, preference. There are so many factors. They call it LSM, Living Standards Metrics. There are so many factors to consider when you're looking at who would best resonate with your brand. So, it's not a one-size-fits-all. If you, as an organization or a company, want to do something, then you must be very clear who are my people? And then even segment them even further. You can have primary, secondary and tertiary if you want. Interesting. Now, from an individual's perspective, somebody wants, let me use myself. I come to you for consultants and I tell you, hey, when I see me, I want the visibility, the wired one. I want to post a photo and Asiad is liking it. Everyone who is influential, like you said, is liking the photos. Is it right to do that? And is it possible, possible? Is it right? Yeah. I guess. I don't think there are any laws against doing that. I think you, depending, again, like I told you, what is it for? Right. For what, for what, what's the purpose? Yeah, maybe I say, there's some, some target, no, target I did. There's some corporate attention I want to get, or there's some people want them to see my work so that maybe next time we are networking, we're interacting, working together. So that what can happen? You see, I already need, I'll give you the rate. But you need to go, it needs to go even further. It needs to go even further. Yeah, it needs to go even further. Right. So that what can happen? Right. You know, we leave it here at very surface and then we do things and then it's piecemeal. It's like saying, I want a cake and then I get the flour. Yeah. Or I want to be recognized by the president and then? Yeah, so that, if I take the analogy of I want a cake, a cake has so many ingredients, there's flour, eggs, sugar, yeast, milk, water, and so on. But you're taking a picture, it's just one ingredient. And what's the cake for? Is it for a birthday? Is it for yourself? Is it just because you want to make, what is the purpose of it? So once you understand what the purpose is, then now you set around putting the things together. You've mentioned one influencer. You've mentioned the president, for example. Right. What is the, if you look at the example of the fish, the chimpanzee, and the caveman. You know, you speak to hearts and minds, eh? Right. What does the caveman care about? What does the chimpanzee care about? What does the fish care about? So similarly, what does the president care about? Right. Yeah, what are you doing to be in the space and then the environment and then the trigger set of the president? Of the president. Right. Once you understand that now you work your way backwards and you ask yourself, how many trigger sets does this person have? Can I be there with all of them? Can my content at least touch as many of these trigger sets as possible? And then once that happens, what next? What do I do next? Because once he is triggered, once he sees you, now what? And then he's seeing you. Do you have a plan of what you're going to do after that? You get my point. Most people, once you've been recognized and you've been seen, then what? You can have all the numbers of all the famous people and the elite people, but what are you doing with it? Are you able to capitalize on it and actually move it to something that actually... Or even make money. It's tangible. If making money is your objective, then absolutely. Right. Yeah. Because like I said, before we live in a world where everybody wants to come on Instagram, go live. And speaking of that, I don't want to mention her name because you're having a very serious conversation here. During the COVID time, she went on, did some two, three things and then Tori Lenz recognized her. And then recently, you've seen how she's getting a lot of recognition. Even at some point, she mentioned PDD, you know, or Puff Daddy recognized her. You know, getting that attention. Do you feel like, you know, it also reminded me of reputation. Do you feel like, for example, if a product or an advertiser wanted to come and approach such a person? I don't know if they're already abrammed. It's either maybe they are gravitating towards that kind of behavior, like coming on Instagram, doing some two, three things and then you go viral. So is it because they're gravitating towards that kind of reputation? So there are certain things that every brand needs to understand. We call them brand vitals. And vitals is an acronym. V is values. So what are your values as a brand, as a person, as a company, as an organization? And you know, your values are your non-negotiables. Are you willing to be associated with a certain group or a certain person or a certain individual? And because by association, you're kind of endorsing the values, which is fine. And if those are your values, then that's okay. Then you have interests, which is what are you interested in? What type of personality are you as a company or as a person? What are the activities that... Interesting, company personality. Yeah, company personality. A company culture. What are the activities that the company is involved in? What is the legacy of this company? What do they want to accomplish? What are the strengths of this company? And does the individual that you're trying to get to endorse you touch with these things? And if you answer those questions, then you can pick wherever you want, really. It's up to you to decide what you think is best. There's no universal standard for what is right or wrong, unless you are religious and you subscribe to a certain moral code, which is yours. You see, the moral code is also yours. Right now, we have so many people with so many different moral codes which lead to so many different value sets. And so at a brand level, what is your objective? And do you feel that the person that you're aligning yourself with or the influencer that you're aligning yourself with ties in with your brand vitals? And if they do, then go for it. Right. Now, staying off loads, competition. Nobody, I don't know if competition is good. They say competition is good for business, but I don't know if everybody likes competition, but those people will say, if that person has done this today for their brand to shine, then tomorrow I'm doing this. I'm taking an example of, I think I saw it online, there's like some sort of Instagram exchange between, I don't know if they're already celebrities, Amberay and Vera Siddique, of course, they are known for some certain things that are out there in the public. And then there's one of them who did a gender reveal via a helicopter. And then the other one came claiming, oh, you copied me, you used my style, you don't have money, you use witchcraft. So I was trying to compare. Both of these people have huge numbers of followers. But then the other one is blaming this one for doing some certain things. Is it possible to maintain healthy competition? But yes, we are in the same business, same environment, same clients, but still we are objectively competing without having these, you know, brushing shoulders in a very, you know, negative way. Well, in publicity, there's no such thing as negative publicity. And as far as I'm concerned, they both won. You feel like they both won? 100%. Okay. They've absolutely won. And at the end of the day, it's all, it's a show. It's a show for you guys. It's a show for the masses to be entertained, to be, to have something to talk about. We're here sitting in a program talking about them. They've won, you know? That's the point. They've accomplished what they needed to accomplish. And so you might see it because you see, whether you're talking about competition or negativity or whatever, as long as you're talking, they've won. That's the point. Now, it depends what do they want you to talk about. So if our conversation now starts to veer into something negative and we start maybe insulting them and causing them some kind of reputational damage, then that's obviously negative and tarnishing their brand. But, you know, if we're just commenting on, if we're just providing social commentary, then I think they've accomplished what it is that they set to accomplish. And, you know, I know one strategy in public relations is to engineer beefs and to create acrimony so that people have something to talk about, especially if your brand is on the decline or let's say you want to launch a new show, which I think one of those ladies has just done. You want to have at least something that will bring the attention because now the attention is on both of them. And then now you start to pick a part. Okay, so what is this one doing? And what is this one doing? Oh, this one has a new show, let me check it out. The other one is on a billboard. You see, so now you see now it drives numbers to the show. Right. Yeah, and that's part of the overall strategy. Right, interesting. And still on that celebrity vibe, I saw you were working with Zari Hassan, let me call her ex-wife to diamond platinum. You were working with her. You guys were flying as well. I was like, wow, this is my nest getting it big, bro. How did you get to that place now? You're working with some of these amazing people that we just read about them or we saw them in movies and TV. Sure. Now, I think it was courtesy of the company that I was working for at the time. I think they've done an amazing job of getting their brand out there. I was certainly part of assisting with that process. It's part of the work that we do to help get brand visibility and stuff out there. And it was just a strategy that we deployed to try and increase the visibility and the reach of this really, really great company that is doing amazing work in the renovation and real estate space. Yeah. So that aside, you're also in real estate professionally now. Well, I'm still a communications person. So some of my clients are in the real estate industry. Right. Correct. Now, I'll also talk about law. You're a commercial lawyer. How is that important? And why is it important even for a business that's competing or are really out here to have a person like you behind their brand? Sure. It certainly helps, because at least law is all about risk mitigation. Lawyers are the first people to tell you, don't go here. Don't try this. We mitigate risk. So we're trained from very early on to understand what's risky and what's not. What can you say? What can't you say? So from that perspective, it helps. And it also helps to know how far can you stretch something until you break the law. You know what I mean? So you can stay just within the lines of legality until you tip over. So it's useful to have someone with that skill set as part of your team. The other thing is that lawyers think laterally. Because for a lawyer, there's no right or wrong. It's how you defend it. It's how you justify it. It's how you explain it. And lawyers are very good at that. In fact, I think lawyers and marketers are kind of in the same. I think that's why maybe for me, the transition was very seamless. I think the ability to make sense of situation and to also stay calm because one of the things that they teach you in law is that because one, there's no right or wrong. Well, there is right and there's wrong. But in terms of your position, you must be able to look at both sides. Like being neutral? Remain neutral but also understand what the dynamics are on both sides. So what that does is it teaches you to think laterally. So most people, normal people, will take a position. This is my position. And my position is my position. And I stand by it. And you can't move me from here. But lawyers can think best case and worst case and be able to allow a view of all sides. So we're very good at scenario planning and planning what kind of, if this happens, then what's the worst that will happen? If this happens, then what's the best that can happen? So it's useful to have that level of training as well. It has reminded me of somebody who was saying, for example, a robber invaded my house and they wanted to shoot and kill my wife. And then it happens I also have a gun and I shoot them. If we go to court, will I be charged of murder or self-defense? It has just played in my mind right now. Now let's talk about digital footprints. I think it should be, let me not mention her name. There's somebody also lying who had, like before she became famous, she had commented on a certain celebrity's drama somewhere else. And then her time came, she became famous. And then people are talking her. And then the celebrity came and screenshoted that part and said, but six years ago, you were the one who was insulting me. Now why can't you take the same hit I was taking? And it just taught me about online and digital footprint. Like your online history will remain there for the rest of your life. Why is it important to take care of your digital footprints as a company, as an individual? It's very important because it's directly tied to your reputation. And so you must be able to have a daily audit, or at least a regular audit of your online assets. And these are things that you've said, comments, things that you've shared, things that you've liked, things that you've endorsed, posts that you've made, articles you've written, videos you've created, because the internet doesn't forget. The internet is there. And as long as you have an interaction with the internet, someone will take that interaction for whatever it is that they think can be useful to them, whether it damages you or not, it doesn't really matter. Because we're all in a competitive space. Everybody is trying to get ahead. So if they can take something that you have done and use it, then it's fair game. There's the laws, I mean, of course, we do have laws now on data protection, which is very important. We have laws on cyber bullying, which is also quite important. But outside of that, the court of public opinion is a free for all. We have a very robust Twitter community here in Kenya, which doesn't really care. The minute something happens, you will trend, and it will go for as long as it needs to go and you, as an individual, as a company, as an organization, have to be comfortable in whatever... If I put something out today, even this interview, whatever we're discussing, am I comfortable 10 years from now, someone watching this and making a decision about this, about me based on this conversation? So always... I'm calling you again. Absolutely. In somewhere else. Think not just in... So my job is to make sure that people think not just in terms of now, because we can be very impulsive and emotional in the way we react online, but think also in terms of the future. If I'm not comfortable posting something today that can come and be used against me 10 years from now, then I'd rather not post it. Think before you post. You know, those are some of the fundamentals. But if I'm comfortable, if in the future I'm okay with whatever it is that people have to say about me, because why? Because my objective, I'm not trying to go for a government position. I'm not trying to be a whatever. I'll be a corporate. That's corporate. I'll be a corporate. Absolutely. If I'm just interested in a different career path, because I know my why, then I can post and interact the way I want freely without fear. Now, I must stress that the term professional means that you subscribe to a code of conduct. So when you're considered a media professional, it means that the media code of conduct, the laws, the ethics, the counsel as a journalist, maybe you have subscribed to a code. As a lawyer, you subscribe to a code. As a doctor, you subscribe to a code. So then now you're considered a professional because your profession is governed by rules and regulations, do's and don'ts. So as a professional, if you know that you have certain do's and don'ts, then you absolutely must color within those lines even as you're interacting online. But if you're not a professional, which is why professionals are held to a higher standard. When you say that I am a professional this, it means that I am tied to a code of conduct. But non-professionals can do whatever they want and have no consequences for it. Right, and that has reminded me of the African parenthood setup where you'll see some parents saying, I don't want you to tune into that station, shut it down, let's switch a channel. Even when it comes to Montes politics, in the public domain, you'll see people say, hey, may another station, I feel like it gravitates to other certain agenda that I don't want my kids to tune in. Why does it happen like that? Is it because it's an already perspective that was set? The tone, like I mentioned, there's no right or wrong. But yes, it's still there. Parents don't want their kids to tune into that station or tune into that program because they feel like it might introduce different perspectives, values, or interview with a certain code of conduct, like you said. But why is it still happening even though you've mentioned there's no right or wrong? Remember I said that everyone has vitals. Everyone has values, interests, personality, temperament, activities, legacy, and strengths. People have vitals, and I'm speaking as a parent. I have certain values that I want my children to subscribe to. And I'm very clear on those values. And whatever it is that they're consuming, whatever it is that they're doing, however it is that they're behaving, I would like them to subscribe to a certain value system. And I'm well within my rights as a parent to do that. So if a parent decides that they would like their household, that they're paying for, to move in a particular direction, then that's it. And this applies to companies. This applies to anybody who is in a position of authority. Even this institution, this institution has certain values that they maintain and say that, remember values are non-negotiables. Values are not something to debate. If this is my value system, this is my value system. This is not a discussion point. And so for that person at an individual level, they have the right to control whatever they can within their control, which is their children. But outside of that, you cannot impose your values on other people. You can try and influence. You can try and create a brand that will pull people because brand is not about force. It's not pushing. It's pulling. It's magnetic. It's charisma. It's bringing people in, in a subtle way, using influence, using communication, using top of mind, using reputation. And many of these are the tools and strategies that we work on. So you can't really force your, you can't impose your value system on people. And there's a global trend right now of competing value systems. So many people have different values that they subscribe to, they believe in. And it's up to you to decide. In the supermarket of values, which one do I like? And you find people who like, maybe today I'll pick this one, I'll drop it, I'll pick this one. That's not really a value because then you're wishy-washy, you're flaky and you're not, you can't really be taken seriously. Look warm. Still in that, we've seen, for example, they say a lot that the corporate world is very cutthroat. And of course, if you're in that space, you must maintain a certain image as we close. For example, somebody went and vented online and the company felt like, hey, since you went online and vented, I don't think we can keep you with that kind of venting. But this person just used to the social media to share their emotions or what they feel, or maybe a perspective on a certain, let's say issue that maybe that company doesn't gravitate towards. Why should they let go of this person and yet they just made use of their social media? And yet the input in the company is still valid and profitable. It's back to values. Right. You know, values trump money. Values trump everything. If my values and your values are not aligning, and I think that's a conversation that has to be had with influences right from the beginning. Infants us mostly. Yeah, our values aligned. Do we have a similar direction that we are moving towards? Because if you do something on your social media or say something, can I stand by that as a company that you have endorsed? And if I can't stand by that, it doesn't matter how many people you bring into the table. We've seen many, many big celebrities who've been dropped by companies. Reconnables. Yeah, you look at Kanye West and Tiger Woods before that and many, many other examples of people who, I mean, Kanye West had probably the most sales of an influencer and endorsement that Adidas had ever seen, ever. Yet they dropped him at the, because their values were not aligned, because he went publicly and used his social media to comment on other things. The numbers dropped. The numbers dropped. But you see, there are certain things that go beyond money. And if you have a value system, then that's really an admirable thing. But if your value system is money, then I guess it doesn't really matter. Right, I think I'd love us to bring to a close that conversation, but I talk about any projects, any consultancy packages that you're offering just in case for a person who'd want to come and seek your services. What are some of the things that you're ready to offer them? And maybe if you have a number, an email, social media, you can share your camera. Yeah, so I'm on Mr. Mwinesi on Twitter and IG and LinkedIn as well. And we actually have a program, a career summit happening next week with the likes of Vucitemberquio and a couple of other exciting names. My dear friend, Joanne, the career coach, will also be doing some, we'll be working together with that. It's actually her who's driving the project. So if anyone wants to interact with that, that's next week, God willing, from the 27th. But my day job remains as an image and performance consultant for companies, organizations, and individuals worldwide. Yeah, email, social media. Yeah, so Mr. Mwinesi on Instagram and Mr. Mwinesi on Twitter. So Mr. Mwinesi Instagram, Mr. Mwinesi on Twitter and Mwinesi Musalea on LinkedIn. Right, I know you can't give out your number, but it's all right. Definitely not. All right, we are speaking to Mwinesi Musalea, who is an image and behavior consultant. Thank you so much for coming through. Thank you for having me. And welcome back, please come back once again. Thank you, Brian, you're doing a great job. You're welcome, thank you so much. Oh, that's the biggest highlight for me for the day. All right, we're gonna take a very short break, but you can continue to interact with us, by the way, on our socials. And that is at Y254 channel on the hashtag Y in the morning. Aunt Brian Soko 101 is Mwinesi. Definitely a vulnerable coming up next with the next segment. I wish you well.