 Tonight, we're going to find out a little bit more about our Burlington City Councilors and our candidates. And these candidates are vying to represent voters like you in wards four and seven. The livability of our communities has long been a focus of our work at AARP Vermont. How our cities and towns prepare for and accommodate an aging population has a profound effect on the health of the community and the quality of life today and in the future for residents of all ages. We hope to explore a number of critical issues tonight, including transportation, housing, job growth, mobility, and give you the opportunity to ask questions as well. We're fortunate tonight, again, to partner with the Better Burlington Business Association, who shares our commitment to educating voters like you on how these candidates stand on important livability issues before you go to the polls in March. We encourage you to ask questions of the candidates and their index cards that are at the table in the back so that you can write those questions as something comes to mind after people. Yeah, they're holding them up back there, but it looks just like this one, so you don't have to turn around. But please, at any point, if you'd like a card, one of us will run and give it to you with a pen if you need one. But we wanna get to as many of your questions as we can. And if you need more information about the candidates, you may have seen the flyers back there. Also, that gives you that information about them and their positions. Our moderator tonight is Fran Stoddard. Standing over there, she's in charge tonight. She will ask the candidates questions and manage the format and she'll outline the details in just a moment. Tonight's event is meant to be an educational forum. We ask audience members to please respect the spirit of this event, as well as our candidates and audience members and refrain from any rallying, hackling or loud cheering. We wanna use our time efficiently and promise to get to as many questions as possible. And you're invited to join us. We have other desserts other than those yummy donuts that we will uncover after the forum tonight. Before we go any further, I'd like to give a shout out to our many volunteers. We couldn't do events like this without them. So can we have a round of applause for the volunteers that are helping us tonight? Thank you very much. For those of you who don't know us well, advocating for older Vermonters and livability communities is just one part of what AARP does in Vermont. In addition to our local advocacy and education work, we are engaging with lawmakers at the State House at a host of issues important to older Vermonters. In addition, we work at the federal level on issues like prescription drug prices, social security and older worker protections to name just a few. We are assisted in our efforts by teams of volunteers. And you may have seen us out in the community. Our tax aid volunteers are very busy right now at community centers helping folks with their taxes, some of the fraud lectures and get-togethers we've had talking about those kinds of things. There are also driver safety programs, advocacy programs or livability programs. So if you'd like to get involved in a volunteering aspect, please see me after the forum today. I think we're about ready to go. Our candidates, are you ready? All right, Fran, I'm turning it over to you. Thank you so much, Linda. So I'm gonna just let everybody know how we're gonna run tonight and we'll get started. So this program that was at the table when you came in actually has a campaign statement from each of the candidates that are here and all of the candidates actually running for city council in Burlington. So it's very interesting. So that's just to save a little bit of time but that's where that is. We are actually gonna start out with a first question. We're gonna dive in with a first question, an opening question that all of the candidates were provided with ahead of time. And then we will move on to questions that have been developed by the Burlington Business Association and AARP that are of major concern to them and then we will turn to your questions and what questions you have for the candidates up here. Each question will receive 60 second response from the candidate and we are very fortunate to have AARP volunteer, Bob Hennenberger, who has done the timing many times before who will be giving our candidates like you're halfway through and your time is up. So he's got a very important place right there. So we move through a number of different categories. We will rotate the order in which candidates respond to the questions. The candidates drew a number out of a hat just a few minutes ago and that's gave us this order so Erica will begin. And by the way, I'm sorry candidates, I have one question to ask them, time. So I will use their first names. So Erica pulled one so we will start the first question with her and so we have Erica Reddick here of course. From Ward 4. We have Ali Zhang from Ward 7 who is here and then Sarah Carpenter also running for Ward 4 and she picked the third one so but then the second question we will start with Ali and then we'll move through the questions that way so everybody gets a chance to answer any of the questions first. Each candidate is given a rebuttal card, three of them. So if they hear something that another candidate has said that they really want to respond to, they can use their rebuttal slip but they only get three. It's like timeouts or something but they get three and they get 30 seconds for their rebuttal and they can use that until they've used up all three of them if they do. So I think and at the very end, each candidate will have a closing statement that they will get and then at the very end we will hear from Kelly and who is the executive director of Berlin Business Association. So I think that we are ready to move on and again of course we hope that you stay because all the candidates are ready to talk to you personally after this so we'll move through this for about an hour and then hopefully you'll stay and talk to the candidates afterwards. So the opening question. Like the rest of the state, Burlington's population is aging. According to the US Census Bureau over the next decade and beyond, the percentage of people 65 and older will grow more than any other age demographic. Right behind this older adults group are people in their 20s. So the question is how can our city grow, develop and redevelop in a way that addresses the needs and desires of these two demographics. Name two changes you would support to address their needs and we will start with Erica. Push the button, how's that? So just hold it down, this is working. Okay, funny enough those two demographics actually have to cooperate hand in hand. So as we know as the population ages and we have things that need to be paid for, we need a robust tax base to pay for the services that we need. We also need people who will provide services to the population as it's aging. So we need nurses, we need doctors, we need home healthcare folks. And so the most important thing that we can do in Burlington is allow for better housing development and not just affordable housing, but all housing to lower the cost of living so that young people will want to stay here and pay taxes. We need people who are willing to pay taxes, we need businesses who are willing to pay taxes and currently the burden is just too high and it's spread between too few people to make it attainable for any longer really. Oh, my time is up, thank you. Okay, thank you and Ali. Yes, thank you for having us. I think the most important aspect of all of it is to make sure that seniors are not lonely in their homes. And whatever we can do for younger people to provide that support, we can bridge the gap. I think I supported the ADUs, I support also home share, the work that they do, which is incredible. And I also think it is important for seniors, we do anything that we can so they can retire and stay in their home, retire in place. I think those are important aspect that the city, the state can do to make sure that the gap between older Vermonters and younger Vermonters are eradicated. Thank you. Thank you and Sarah. Thank you. You know, we talk about two demographics, but really I think what's good for one is good for the other. And it's the topics that are important to AARP and BBA, housing, transportation, and livability. We need a better transportation system, I'll say in particular out in this end of town. If the city's gonna grow and add people, we need more housing. Burlington is growing, but I think we're constrained by the vacancy rate in this town, which is really low, low, low. I think we need to have housing that accommodates both old and young, small home ownership units, and there's a lot of reasons why that's not happening, and I think the city needs to help facilitate that and help us get more homeowners into the city. And along with that, really promote design. I've for years been an advocate of universal design, which means you can live there in any stage of your life, whether you got a broken leg or a toddler, or you're just frail. Okay, thank you. Okay, we'll move on to the next question. It's about housing, and we will start this with Ali. The city is currently proposing removing the minimum parking requirement for new development in the downtown and transit corridors. What are your views on how this change will help promote affordable housing, the affordable housing stock? Yes, I think the correlation between minimum parking requirements and housing can be a little bit overstated in my own standpoint, but I think also we should not consider the downtown of Burlington as any other neighborhood in the city. The downtown of Burlington should be vibrant and we should make sure that cars can park as well as making sure that the roads are being shared by many ways of transportation, such as walking, biking and all of that. But in terms of housing and parking, I do not really exactly see the correlation in there, but if there is opportunities to learn more about it and try to eradicate it, we will be welcome to do so. Thank you, and Sarah. The cost of adding housing and new development is very constraining, and one of the costs is structured parking. You can spend up to $25,000 a unit for a parking space. So I think accommodating new ways of stacking parking, of sharing parking, of sharing vehicles is something we need to look at. And hand-in-hand has to be a more robust transportation system. If we're gonna reduce availability of parking, you've gotta have something as an alternative. But it really is a function of cost, of new structures and space. And we can learn from some of our neighbors and some of the other countries who accommodate it probably better than we do. Okay, thank you. And Erica, again, removing the minimum parking requirement and how that might promote affordable housing. I think it's fine as long as it's being done responsibly. So when we're talking about removing all of the parking on the South Winooski Corridor and things like that, that is irresponsible. Downtown Burlington particularly is the economic hub of this city. And people already do not want to come because there's no parking or not enough parking. It's not easy. It's a pain in the butt. So I will say removing some restrictions to allow for ADUs and other things like that, I'm absolutely for. My husband and I lived in Hollywood for a couple of years because he's a filmmaker. And if tandem parking did not exist, there would be no parking in LA at all. And so we benefited from that. So if, and we had no problem with that. You know, when it was, my car was parked behind my roommates, you just moved it and you left your keys in the bowl and it was fine. So as long as the parking restrictions are being removed responsibly, I'm for it. If it's to make way for bike lanes, I am not for it. And just ADUs, accessible dwelling units, I'm sure that you all know what that is, but occasionally people use that a lot and some people aren't familiar with that term. We're gonna follow up that question, especially for folks out here in the New North End. Would you support further expanding this removing the minimum parking requirement to residential and lower density areas like up here? Sarah? I'm not as familiar with the proposed ordinance, but again, I think you need to look at what can fit on a particular space. And we really need to look at it almost parcel by parcel. I think tandem parking or stack parking can work. I grew up in a home with three brothers and when we all had cars, there was six cars in the house. So we have smaller households and I think you can accommodate it and we just need to be really particular that we don't encroach on our neighbors as we're looking at the opportunities. And we also need to look at particular streets, some streets have parking opportunities, some don't. So it's really important to look at it, not with a whole zone, but parcel by parcel. Thank you, Erica. I absolutely agree with that. Additionally, I don't know if you guys know how hard it is to add parking to your house or to your place, even if you wanna expand your parking, your driveway, like six inches, it is a ridiculous process with the city. So this is where, this is one of the areas where we can loosen up some of the restrictions on zoning without going crazy. The other thing to consider is that, is the parking ban. So if we're gonna remove restrictions for parking in our residential areas, where are those people gonna park when there's a parking ban? Is the Miller Center gonna be able to open up? Are we gonna be able to make space for that? If we're also then not gonna let people expand their driveways, and, and, you know, so all of the laws have to be in consideration of the others to make sure that we're not making things so restrictive and so onerous that nobody can manage to live here. Allie. Yes. I think it is important to make the distinction whenever we talk about affordable housing. I think even that term is problematic to me personally, because we should think about this issue differently. All we've been talking about affordable housing, affordable housing. But we need to make sure we're talking about everyone living in Burlington should have access to be in an affordable, under a roof, whatever it takes. Because when we talk about affordable housing, we're not talking about people who don't have homes. We're not talking about homelessness. I think it's all related. In terms of minimum parking requirements, we did make some great steps, and I think the city is on the right path to get there. But in terms of here in the new North End, I don't think there will be a problem for the residents here, because it's kind of different when you compare it to the rest of the city. Thank you. We are gonna move on to land use and development, and we'll start with Erica this time. Are there policy changes that you feel are necessary to address the downtown mall project to ensure completion? Not my questions. No, they're good questions. Very good. Well thought out. Let me count the ways. No, in all seriousness, I find that whole thing very confusing, because my understanding is that the mayor and the city council put measures in place to make sure that if Brookfield or the partners did something like this, that we would have recourse, that if we let them dig a hole in the ground and something went wrong, then we could take it back. And I'm very confused at the lack of accountability in this area. I understand that things happen. I understand that building in Burlington is a pain in the butt. And so there are things that got in the way. There are policies and procedures that make it even harder to be able to build anything. And so I have two things. One is we just need to get out of the way so that we can build more housing and have businesses be able to thrive here. And let's hold people accountable when we can. Okay. Ali. You re-ask the question, please. Yes. Are there policy changes that you feel are necessary to address the downtown mall project to ensure completion? So what policy changes might you recommend to ensure the completion of that project? Yeah, it is unfortunate that the land doesn't belong to the city. And I think at this point, it is a little bit late to the game to bring any type of policy changes. And I don't even see what type of policies we're talking about for a developer to be able to finish his project. But I think what is important for the city to focus on is a development agreement that we have with that developer. How do we strengthen it in making sure that it is completed? And if not, what type of provision we need to follow up with maybe going to courts or them paying us some fees. But we also should focus in making sure to place this very smart because if the developer is upset, the ground will be there and then it would be just an extended problem forever. Let's focus on what matters. But we will not beg to them, do you? But also let's just be very strategic, very smart in getting it done. Okay. And Sarah? And I would agree with some of that. Again, it's important to remember that that whole on the ground is that we don't own it. But I think the city needs to, at this point in time, facilitate the new proposal, which I think is significantly better than the previous proposal. It's beginning, or rebeginning its permit process. So we need to be supportive in that. As Ali points out, part of that will be a revised development agreement. And that's where the city, I think, needs to hold the owner's feet to the fire and make sure that it does, is accountable to the city, provides us what we need, particularly because the city will, in fact, be paying for the street amenities around that. And we need to be held harmless as they go. And there is, I think, urgency at this point to get this new proposal through the process, a development agreement signed and delivered to us. Okay, and Erica is going to use her rebuttal for this question. We've lost millions of dollars in tax revenue with this whole on the ground. I mean, I think it's something potentially like two and a half, five million dollars or something like this. The fact that just to build, as an example, a hundred unit apartment, excuse me, a 30 unit apartment building, people, builders have to pay $100,000 in Act 250 permits and fees before they've drawn an architectural drawing or put a shovel in the ground. We need to get out of the way and make it not so expensive to build here. Okay, thank you. We are moving on to governance and taxes. On this year's, and we'll begin with Ali on this one, on this year's town meeting day ballot, voters will see two questions asking for their approval to increase taxes. These are a proposed increase of the Housing Trust Fund assessment to a full penny, as well as a three cent increase in the public safety tax rate. What are your views on these tax increases, which are likely to result in higher housing costs? How would you address the concerns of our older and younger citizens who already say they cannot afford living costs in Burlington? Thank you. So I think it is important for the city also to get our priorities straight. When we talk about safety, should be at the center of our attention. And for the public safety, it is specific to staffing needs for the new ambulance in the new north end. And I think I supported it. And when I was just elected for the first time, that was something that I worked with the mayor, requested it, and also for chief Locke. I think it is important. We have elderly cares here. We have so many schools here. And still we don't have an ambulance. But for the affordable housing, that tax, I did not vote for it because I don't think that the taxpayers of Burlington should have that burden of providing affordable housing. But the city need to focus on increasing our tax base. And we have people who are working full-time, have staff, and that should be their focus. How do we pay for things that we need? Thank you. Sarah, about these two tax increases proposed. The city itself has not had a tax increase in a number of years. Public safety has not, I think, in something like 15 years. I can't second guess the decision-making of the council, but I do understand it to be very urgent and very much needed. And so I certainly support that. On the Housing Trust Fund, we've all talked about how critical more housing is. This one set is a very modest, it produces about $400,000. We expect developers to spend millions and millions of dollars, the federal government to spend millions of dollars, and putting a little seed capital, a little skin in the game, is how we're gonna get more housing into this city. Okay. And Erica? I am against both tax increases because it is, enough is enough. The city cannot continue to come to the same well of already overtaxed people who are barely getting by. We want our seniors to be able to age in place, and we want our young people to stay and create a better, more robust economy here. So every time you increase the taxes, you make it more expensive to live here. And I just, I have a real problem with prioritizing flower pots and bike lanes over public safety. The government's number one role is to protect its citizenry. And this idea that you're gonna ask seniors in my community to choose between an ambulance to save their lives or put food on their table and keep their home, I just think is really irresponsible. And we can do better for our people than that. And we'll move on to one more question, and then we'll get to your questions. This is on transportation, and we will begin with Sarah for this one. What is your strategy to make transit a practical daily option for a wide range of Berlintonians and to assure it will be accessible for everyone? That's a tough question. We right now provide public transit regionally. We have a special transportation, SSTA, which I was actually involved in founding. We have other private transportations. I think we need a real collaborative measure with our neighbors to figure out a more, I'm gonna say user friendly transportation system. I don't have any magic answer for that. It may be smaller buses, it may be more ride sharing. I think there's a lot of work we could do in ride sharing. We have two large employers in the city, the university and the hospital, not just their customers, but their staff needs transportation. We've just gotta have a real strategic sit down and get all the options on the table. Thank you. Erica. I would love to see more buses, more availability and things like that, but as with everything, we have to pay for it. And we have to pay for it responsibly. And the fact of the matter is we do not have enough demand in this area to fund the necessary buses. So I'm not exactly sure how we fix all of that, but I would say if we want it to be subsidized by the city and we want to provide that to make sure everyone has it, we need to increase the tax base. We need to incentivize businesses to come back and stay, pay taxes, and then we can afford to pay for it. Additionally, let's be creative. At one point, there was a bus, I believe it was going to Heinsberg. We were spending something like 55 or $80,000 a year to provide this bus service, to go out to one area of town once a week to pick up seniors and to an enormous expense, and it's not super convenient to get to doctor's offices. I'd rather put that $100,000 in a trust for Lyft to get them to their doctor's when they need it. And Ali? I would definitely prioritize the car-sharing system that we have, and I think in Burlington we have an organization here who is leading, which is car-sharing Vermont, and I think how do we work with them more in having more cars accessible? But I think transportation also, we need to think about it differently. How do we bring amenities like closer to people instead of driving all the way over there? Why should they just walk and get everything that they want in one location? I think that's one. And also, it will be important to keep on working with the state and the federal government in making sure that free transportation is accessible, not only for Burlington, but also for Shijindan. And there is a proposal or questions at the city level brought by the progressive who are asking the question, how do we make that happen? I think we are on the right path, but there is still some ways, more ways for us to get there. But thinking differently is always key. And onto economic development. What is your plan to help retain and grow new business in Burlington? Erica, we'll start with you. So what's your plan? Lower taxes. Do I sound like a broken record yet? Lower taxes, lower regulations, lower barriers to entry. Right now, whether it's personal property taxes, income taxes, property taxes, all of the tax, tax, tax, tax, and then you have the fees and the regulations and the licensures and all of the things on top of it. So if I, if I'm a business, if I'm an entrepreneur, why would I start a business in Burlington where more than 60% of my income is taken in some form of taxes? Why would I do that here when I can move to another place where there may not even be a state income tax? There's no business personal property tax, which I know is being phased out, but there's all of these additional fees and taxes that make it even harder for young people or people starting out to start small businesses, which is the backbone of every economy. Ali. This is a great question, and I think I'll be very happy to answer it. Because what I believe is important is we need to have a vibrant and dynamic downtown. So we started a process with a downtown improvement district. It was rushed and then it died. I think it is also important for the city to be brought to standards in which bigger companies such as Apple would wanna come here and invest here. I think it requires a lot of standards, national standard that the city need to have. And I think education, training for the young people who are here because we don't have workforce in order to attract people who can invest in communities. Yes, but business development, small business development programs need to be at the center of the work of CEDO, Community Economic Development Office. But unfortunately, that department is just becoming a development department, which I think it should change. But this would be a question for Mayor. Thank you. And Sarah. There are a couple of issues. I think taxes are an issue, but I think we've really gotta wrap our hands around the fact that education is the driver. It's over 70% of our tax bill and so we've gotta have more collaboration on that. But as Ali points out, the flip side of that is we have to have a well-educated workforce. I think Burlington has a great system. How can we really make it attractive for businesses because we have a well-educated workforce? So that's gonna go hand in hand. I think particularly in this north end of town, we're a little bit of a blank slate. I look at what's been done in the south end on Pine Street. Can we do more of that out here in the North Avenue? Can we have a more robust way to attract businesses to this end of town and make it more convenient for our residents as well as a vibrant downtown? Okay, and Ali is using one of his rebuttal cards. So yes, I think this one is important is about what is happening in the south end to happen here in the new north end. I think it will be a big mistake because what is happening in the south end are the problems we have with sewage, with water-boiling systems, because the zoning has changed there and we have so many breweries who now are living there and just making our underground system a little bit harder. I think the new north end, we need to keep it a little bit vibrant, but at the same time, yeah, keep it a neighborhood for everyone. Okay, and for another 30 seconds, I've been hearing let's not raise taxes, I had different programs. Where's the money coming from? So that's my little follow-up for all of you. Where do you see money coming into Burlington to grow some of these ideas or to not have to raise taxes? So this is a 30-second follow-up from me. Erica, sure, yeah. We have to make it an environment where businesses wanna be here. If businesses are here and they can thrive, they hire people. If they hire people, those people stay here. We have an educated workforce. We have a bajillion college students. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to keep them here. We just need jobs for them and we need housing that is affordable so that they believe they can stay here and build a family and have a future. Ali? Where the money's coming from, I think we also need to tap into the federal government. Our representatives, how do we make sure that the training's necessary for the work of the 21st century is funded by them and then it would be easy to attract all the businesses. But I think also there are opportunities for the city or just like-minded people to invest in. The hemp business is here. Sorry, but the marijuana business, we said it would bring 22 millions of taxes for the state. But how do we think differently in accessing some of it? Thank you, Sarah. I think one of our issues is we rely so heavily on the property tax and we've gotta sort of sort that out better. That may mean more cost sharing among communities. We've gotta wrap our heads around, our arms around the cost of education in this state, which is really the biggest driver of property taxes. And I think some of the things we're talking about are better suited in shared systems that really would be funded through state and federal funds, which are income-based. Okay, thank you. Onto the questions from the room here. We'll start with Ali. Last night, the Burlington City Council, and you were there, voted not to invest in Burlington Telecom. What is your opinion on this and why? Thank you. I think it's important also for you to visit my website. So there I have all my stands and the website is alijang.com. But I think for this specific business, I voted no. Just to make sure that we don't invest anything that might require us losing it. There were so many, so many risks in this business. So many things that many people are not talking about. If you go to my website, you find more details. And also John Shannon, who's in the south and requested for all of those risks to be shared by the community. And I think if you go to the board doc, you will see it. Burlington, we need stability. We need also to move forward and leave this business behind. We can invest our money into things that are less risky and the return of investment will be greater and there won't be any problem. Thank you, Sarah. This was a difficult question because I don't understand the risks. I don't understand the relationship that was between the city and the new owner of the Champlain television. So I'm not sure how I would have voted. I think, I'm sorry that the city will not remain on the board and have some local control. I think if the investment itself was solid, I would have been supportive of it, but I didn't have enough, I don't have enough information to really understand the risk. And there wasn't, didn't seem to be enough time to process what would the alternative investments look like, what other options could the city have pursued with this if they pull out their assets from the current system? Thank you, Erica. I think that I would have voted to invest. I think that there's some information that I'll cop to the fact that I do not know everything, but within six months of being cut loose from the city of Burlington, they turned their finances around and they have been in the black. They're preparing to expand. They are hopefully going to grow and expand out into different communities. And on the surface, it looks like a good investment to me. It's being run by competent people who want to make money. And frankly, I think that we need more competent people who want to make money helping make decisions for the future of the city. We need money to upgrade our infrastructure and all of these things. So I think that I would have voted for it, but again, my biggest concern is, what is the mayor gonna do with that money now? Is it just gonna go into some slush fund for more projects that aren't really going to benefit Burlington? That's my biggest concern. Thank you. So we'll start with Sarah for this question, which is Cathedral Square and Champlain Housing Trust are both nonprofit organizations who own $70 million worth of property in Burlington. Burlington Housing Authority owns an additional 500 units, which are also tax exempt. How will adding more of this type of housing, tax exempt, make the city more affordable for the already overtaxed residents of Burlington? Sarah. I don't believe that the Champlain Housing Trust and Cathedral Square properties are tax exempt. They do pay taxes. The Burlington Housing Authority has a different formula because of its relationship to the federal government and pays in lieu of taxes. So they do pay into the city for services. It is at a valuation rate based on their use and they're permanently affordable so that would be somewhat lesser but they're intending to cover some of their costs. I think if you look at other affordable housing, again, many of them pay in. So I think it's a missed, even though they're nonprofits, the city does not have a blanket exemption for not for profits. Thank you. Erica. It is already so that 50% of the grand list of Burlington is not taxable. The grand list is a list of all properties and buildings and everything that's taxable in the city. 50%, 46% is already non-taxable. So if we build, if we spend our tax dollars, $400,000 or whatever it is to build more housing that is not taxable, that is a net cost to the city, not a net gain. We need to build housing that is taxed. We need not just affordable housing, we need just housing to deal with the supply and demand issue. That will bring overall costs down. Those buildings will be generating property taxes and they will pay our bills. The last thing that we need is more non-profit untaxed buildings in the city. All right. And Ali. Yep. I think it all depends on the type of agreement that we have with those entities, you know, and it's not only a square, it's not only Burlington Housing Authority, but it's also UVM, it's also a Champlain College. Maybe if I understand you paying in lieu of taxes, it's just a little bit, but at the same time you should take care of at least the streets and the sidewalks, you know, pay for it or reimburse the city once we do it. You know, I think we need to look at this in a broader perspective that would allow those who live here property tax owners, tax owners, home owners to be able to afford it to live here. But at the same time, the bigger institution that we have here also should pay their fair share. But it is all about the agreement that we have. How do you bargain in making sure that you're protecting the residents, the home owners of Burlington? Okay. We have another, again, taxes and money keeps coming up. I wonder why. Given that education property taxes are two thirds of our tax bill and municipal taxes are the remaining one third, how should city council, that branch of government and the school board or school district branch of government coordinate with one another to manage the overall tax burden and provide for the resource needs of the entire city? And we'll begin with Erica. Okay, that was a lot. It is a lot. So I think that city council has to do its best to be realistic with the taxpayers and educate our tax base, our residents about what is realistic and what is feasible. So this is, we do not have enough time to cover this. Our school taxes, our property taxes don't even cover education. So sales tax and all of these other areas are being pulled from to add to pay for the schools. I need more time. And so the money that we're spending isn't even going to education necessarily. And so we need to get a handle on what money is actually being spent on. Where are the inefficiencies? We need to get that chart of accounts implemented so that we can see what's actually happening and hold people responsible. What a lot of people don't understand is that when we see a tax increase for the school, it's not going to education, it's going to unfunded pension debt to cover it. And people don't get told that. Thank you, Allie. So I think the fundamental problem of education funding is not only city related, but it is statewide, it is also federal. I think we need to look into that and to tell you the truth, the city council did send an important resolution to the state asking them the right questions about the way that they disseminate funds to local communities because Burlington is one of the biggest. I think to your point, how the city and the Burlington School District should work together, there are so many ways. One example is the city and lakeside semester. Let's think about education differently. Education is a 21st century, is no longer the traditional education where we have a teacher and a classroom and things. Kids can learn every time, all the time, anywhere, right? And I think the city and the schools need also to work into the maintenance, such as plowing. Why the school district need to do it and the city has the occupants. There are so many things that we can work together on. Okay, and Sarah. I agree with that and I think we need to take it a step further and really coordinate with our neighboring communities. And we just had a huge bond issue for a new high school. South Burlington's got one twice as big on the ballot. Can we share resources? Can we share teachers? Can we share buildings? We have two tech centers in the county. I think people don't wanna give up that control and it's a hot button issue, but we're gonna have to start looking at that. And I think we're gonna need more leadership at the state level to do it. People resent that, but I think we're gonna have to. The funding for the schools comes predominantly from the state. We sort of re-circle it and it's not working very well for Burlington. And so we really, as a council, gotta get on top of that and figure out how we can share those resources better than we have been. Just one fact too, it is important. We do get some back, almost 69% of our citizens do get income sensitivity on some of it, so we need to take some of that into account. Thank you, Sarah. Speaking of Burlington High School and the project there, this question is what is your position on the Burlington High School project and the future of that building, Ali? I think it's needed. We had a scrambling high school. I think also it is as to why people need to move here because of the amenities that we have, that we paid for and that it will be here for the next 50, 60, seven years to come. But it is unfortunate that we heard that there are some hurdles that they encountered. What they have and what they would wanna do, the prices are not, they're not matching, right? And I don't think it is a good idea to come back to the taxpayers and asking for more money. From what we have, let's try to get something that is great, right? And I think it's great. I am very glad that the voters of Burlington voted for the $70 million to get the high school done and let's hope that that work will be getting done soon. Right, Sarah? I agree. As a graduate of Burlington High School and one of the first persons to go there, now looking at it 50 years later, it needs renovation and we just had to do that. But I get back to, and I don't know all the details of the plans. I think we had to go ahead, but going forward in the future, we still need to look at how we can share resources. We'll have a good physical plant that will attract people to Burlington, but one of our education costs is staffing and how do we share the operations of that a little bit more equitably and how do we really maximize what we can use that building for as a city asset. It can't be just a school asset, it's a city asset and we need to use it as robustly as we can to accommodate all of the needs of the city. Thank you. Erica, high school. I have said before, you can never spend too much money on education, but you can spend more money than the taxpayers can afford. And the reality is, the money that has been allocated so far is being mishandled. When you have $5 million spent on architectural drawings that are just thrown out because a feasibility study was not done ahead of time, I'm very reluctant to give a blank check for 70 to $100 million to those same people. And I'm sure that there was some reason for that I'm unaware of that maybe there's a good excuse. But the idea that we can just continue to take and take and take from the people who are here is unreasonable and irresponsible. We cannot afford it. We can't afford the 70 million and we can't afford the 20 million more that they're already going to be asking for. It's too much and it's irresponsible. Okay, we're gonna do one more question from the audience and then go to closing statements. It's getting near seven o'clock. So we'll start with Sarah with this one. Liveability is also about engagement. How will you include older Vermonter's voices in your decision making? Well, being one myself, I will listen to my friends, but I think we really need to just encourage people. I'm very happy that the city council passed a resolution to create a council on aging. We need that, that's something I've been working with my friend Gail on for a very long time. We need to do every bit, Ken, in this neighborhood. I think some of our NPA work and our community dinners engage people. We just gotta do the outreach to get those voices out there. Sometimes people sort of give up. I personally really having had a previous career with senior services will make it a point to reach out to our older neighbors and bring them into the discussion. All right, great, Erica. This is very near and dear to my heart as well. My mother is getting older and one of the reasons that I moved back here and bought my grandparents house here in the New North End was to make sure that my mom had a safe and healthy place to live near a senior center, which we have here for services and things like that. There are doctors close by and she stays with my sister in Texas in the winter and comes back with me in the summers. And so many people I think are very apathetic about the state of politics and things that are going on here in the city. People feel unheard, people feel unlistened to, and so much of the engagement that's being done now is on social media and platforms that seniors are just not using in the same way that young people are. And so strange that we actually have to be part of a community. Get out, go to the senior center, talk to people, create gatherings, go to the people who you're serving and speak to them directly. Thank you, and Ali, how will you include Alder Vermonter's voices in your decision making? I mean, I think the most important one is just to listen. Whether you're an elder or a younger person, when you talk to me, I have to listen. And I think to your point, it is important also to highlight that the Burlington City Council did recognize this issue and created a senior commission. It is a great step to the right path, right? I think it's also not only how seniors can be included, but also how seniors can participate better because it's not that you retire, you don't have any use. You have the most smart, you have vision. You, yeah, you are the best, you are the best. So that's the senior. They need to understand it. But now let's talk about childcare, for example. Why not seniors take care of tolders? Why not a program like that? I'm pretty sure that some of them are teachers, some of them are engineers. Why them also serve more of the high school? All of those. Okay, thank you. And now for closing statements, each candidate gets 60 seconds and we will start with Erica. I love this talking about all of the ways that we can work together to support our community because ultimately that's who our community is. It's us. It's the people sitting in this room. It's our neighbors. And I believe it's my responsibility to help take care of my neighbors. I don't believe it's the government's responsibility. We need to make sure there are services available for people, but what would it look like in our city if we actually got out of our house and started knocking on our neighbors' doors and seeing how they're doing? Talk to them, ask them what they need. Don't sit there and say, well, you know what, that's somebody else's problem. Somebody else is gonna do that. It's someone else's responsibility. What if instead all of us said, no, it's my responsibility? It's my responsibility to make sure that older couple down the street has someone to help them shovel their driveway. It's my responsibility to make sure that they've got somebody to help them get to their doctor's appointments. What would it look like? Radical responsibility for your neighbors. Thank you, Ali. Yes, so as you can hear from my accent, I'm not from here, I came here 12 years ago. And I am an active member of this community. I am committed to making Burlington the best it can be. For more information about me, what I believe in, what I stand for, visit my website, please, ali-jeng.com. Please go there and you have better idea. And I think what we need more and better in Burlington is the core governing concept. It seems ideas are coming from up down, but how do we make sure that everyone feels that they murder, they're part of the process and we can make Burlington better? That's the only way. It is going now currently one side to the other side, but we need to change that, right? The priorities are here and we need stability and also we need smart growth. We cannot do it from just one side to the other. It is time for Burlington to come together and also make this city the best in the nation. Thank you. Thank you. And Sarah. In my decision to run for city council, I was really very excited about how I can get active locally. For 20 years or more, I worked on statewide policies and I saw that the real action is at the local level. And I wanna be part of it for all of the reasons that we've talked to. I decided early to do this. I am committed to do this. It's not a last minute decision. I was not able to run for office when I worked for the state. Now I can run for the office and make sure that our government is responsive. And I see that as an exciting opportunity to bring forward and bring my expertise to the council. The city's got a lot of issues on its table. It runs a very large organization. And that's the role of the city council is to be guidance in running that very large organization. And I think my experience can help that. Excellent. And Erica wanted a rebuttal, which is very unusual, but I'm gonna give you each 30 more seconds if you want them, if you want it. It wasn't really a rebuttal. Oh. I just liked, well, Ollie said, I forgot also. I have a website too. It's erichoretic.com. You can go check out more on my policy initiatives. And there's a donation link as well. And a link to my calendar and public appearances. Thank you for your grace to allow me to do that. Okay. Another quick go ahead, Sarah. Well, I don't have a website, but I encourage you to call me, to email me directly. I have a Facebook page. I probably will get a website if I'm elected. And I just reach out, call me on the telephone, send me an email. So I just wanna thank all of you for coming out tonight and these fabulous candidates. It's people like you that really make a difference in your town that you really care and you wanna hear what these people have to say and that they're running. They are your civil servants. So thank you very, very much. And now I will turn it over to Kelly Devine, the Executive Director of the Burlington Business Association. Hello, thank you. Thank you to the candidates. Thanks for everyone coming out. Just wanted to address, we had a couple of questions that come in that weren't really candidate questions. They were more about the process. One was about political endorsements. I believe those are covered in the brochure. So we didn't ask that of candidates, but if you're interested in that and you can find it on the website. Some asked about the status of the writing can in the sea for current right that's occurring in this neighborhood. I'm not gonna address that here, but I'm happy to talk to folks about that if they wanna understand how that all works. And then another comment from the audience was related to something Sarah mentioned about payment in lieu of taxes and how that works. And the comment from the audience was just a reminder to folks that payment in lieu of taxes covers and comes in only on the municipal side of the tax bill. It does not impact the school side of the tax bill, which is the money that goes to Montpelier to pay for our taxes. So just wanted to help folks get a couple of these things out. I wanna again thank the candidates. I wanna thank our partners at AARP. Wanna let folks know that we had CCTV here tonight recording this. So this will be available. It'll run on their programming. So if you wanna go back to it or tell all the folks about it, it's a great way for people to get informed. That's our goal is to inform voters. And also to remind folks that our election for city council as well as the primaries and voting on the ballot questions that we brought forth tonight is March 4th. If you live in Ward 7, you're polling place, I mean, in Ward 4, you're polling place, oh, 3. Oh, March 3rd, oh, thank God for my team, right? It's been a long week. Tuesday, March 3rd, yeah. Everyone show up on March 2nd, then you're voting, yeah. Voting is open already. So you can vote early at City Hall. You, we have same day registration. The election is on March 3rd. If you live in Ward 7, your polling place is here. If you live in Ward 4, your polling place is the St. Mark's Youth Center. So just encouraging folks to please come out and vote again on March 3rd. So thank you. Our candidates are gonna stay. We have some dessert in the back though. We had an angelic gift of donuts before the thing started. So maybe no one's in the mood for much more dessert when we brought dessert. There's some coffee, both decaf and regular. And hopefully our candidates will stay and you can ask them some questions. Thank you so much.