 Hey, Aloha, welcome back to the Security Matters Hawaii episode. We're in the Think Tech Hawaii studios today, and it's back to school time. We called this episode Back to School Security 2019, and we have a true school professional with us today. Kevin Wren is a school safety advocate from A3 Communications. Kevin, thank you so much for joining me today. I know it's near the end of your work day down there, so I appreciate you hanging around. No, thank you. Thank you so much for having the conversation on school security today. Right on. Yeah, well, you know, we've obviously, there's a lot, I think there's a growing concern across the country about this, that I wish it got more traction a decade ago. You know, I appreciate the work that you've done in this space. For our audience who doesn't know you, maybe do you want to share some of your background, how you sort of ended up in the spot that you're in today there at A3? As much as you want to share, you know, we won't, we won't start spamming you or give it all away, but... No, absolutely. I've actually been doing safety school safety security since I was 15 years old as a high school student. My school resource officer back in Augusta, Georgia, was a huge influence on my life, was even in my wedding. Wow. But he had me involved as a student, doing school board, doing some stuff at the state level, just asking a student's perspective on school safety. Now, back in 1994, way before Columbine even existed. Yeah. He did a mock lockdown drill at the sheriff's office with an active shooter. Wow. Those are all unheard of pre-Columbine. Sure. So then, went to school and as I got out of school, I became an SRO, kind of following his footsteps and was able to be in law enforcement for six years before helping start the security emergency management department for Charleston County School District. Wow. And then the last six years, I started the security emergency management department for Rock Hill School just out of Charlotte. Wow. I've been fortunate enough to have some pretty good success and get to know some fantastic people through being the director of the year for Campus Safety Magazine and participating in Safe and Sound Schools as one of their advisors and now having the pleasure of being one of the steering committee directors for the partner alliance for safer schools. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. And that was sort of the first touch point I got on the sort of the programmatic side of the business. Tell for our audience here a little bit, talk about that SRO program down there and how folks get in there, sort of what some of their quals are, what your advice may be if you're advising a school district or something to engage with SROs on their K through 12 campuses. Yeah, absolutely. So the National Association of School Resource Officers, or MAFRO, is a standard. They have a great program, basic training, advanced interview interrogation. They have all kinds of fantastic courses. They want to run a wonderful conference. No Kennedy and his people at MAFRO are a fantastic organization. MAFRO says that you should have one SRO per thousand students. So in South Carolina, we've been fortunate enough, the majority of our middle and high schools have an SRO on campus. And those SROs work for the local police department or sheriff's office. And then on top of that, a lot of school districts are starting to adopt school security officers or SSOs, as some people call them, which is the private arm security. They usually function in elementary schools as a complete deterrent, whereas the school resource officer really follows a triad model of an educator, law enforcement educator, a counselor, and then law enforcement. Oh, wow. So that counseling aspect, is that just so they can build relationships with the student body and student body learns to trust law enforcement, things like that? Absolutely. That's the whole purpose of an SRO. If those SROs are not building authentic relationships with their students, school administration really has no use for them. We tell law enforcement all the time that your investigation division is not getting more information out of your SRO than they are from some of your informants on the street. They have the wrong SRO because the kids know everything. It's just a matter of finding that right person to build those relationships. So they start disclosing what's really taking place. Yeah, what an interesting role. How does the support from the law enforcement community for those SROs, because that's kind of your front line out there. It's a really dangerous job, I mean, in some cases. Absolutely. So anything security-wise in K-12 has advanced dramatically over the past 10, 15 years that I've been around. There was a day that the SRO was kind of a highland of mystic toys, so to speak. They just kind of stuck to, you go babysit the kids. Now they realize, hey, this is a big PR position. These guys can actually have an effect on deterring crime and building those relationships. You're seeing a higher quality, higher caliber of officers becoming an SRO, becoming a career SRO. Law enforcement has been very supportive of that. I'm sure you're well aware that law enforcement has some unbelievable shortages right now. And trying to find enough officers to work the streets where they may want to have an officer in every school. The reality is that they just can't do it. They can't find the manpower. They can't get staff to positions, which is unfortunate, because it is an unbelievable profession. Are there restrictions? Can we get veterans or retirees? Are there any sort of physical or age restrictions on those types of roles? There are, I think, to join like a police force. I'm sure there's maybe, I don't even know. I'm just guessing there's age limits and things like that. But for an SRO, would that be a little less or a little more relaxed, maybe? Yeah, I don't think there's any age restrictions. I'm sure there's some physical life abilities and those kind of things. But they can get through a hiring process at a local law enforcement agency. And yeah, we're willing to have them. Happy to have them? That's awesome. Absolutely. And what's their mechanism for reporting upstream like intelligence? Let's just call it that. You know, I've got this gang activity. Is there a portal that they use that feeds their district-wide awareness that this school has this issue and that school? How's that infrastructure? Yeah, it kind of depends. There's different models across the country, different states. South Carolina, for instance. There is no authority for a school district to have its own police department. Okay. So like Georgia, North Carolina, several other states, you have school districts that have their own law enforcement departments. Oh, wow. So when you have law enforcement, the reports of the school board of education, then obviously those change of command are a little more direct in the educational role for communication. When you have that separation, sometimes communication can get muddied or blurred. Then you start getting into different federal requirements of FERPA. Oh, yeah. In different things like that. But overall, I mean, communication is everything. Communication when it comes to school safety is number one. You have to have communication with law enforcement school officials, but you also have to start looking at Department of Social Services, Department of Mental Health, Department of Juvenile Justice, and really start looking at the whole picture of that student to find out what his or her needs are and how we can divert them away from any kind of criminal activities. Yeah, from that escalation path, right? We talk about that. Is your feeling that's, or let's just say, and take the last decade or so, are we having an effect? Are we getting more reporting from the kids, from the families, from the people that we know are more likely to see some indicators of bad behavior or that things aren't going well for someone? And is that increasing with the level of security effort that we're making on the campuses? Yeah, I think it is. I really do. It's not only just the day and time that we live in, and the kids are constantly bombarded with things in the media, but the tech age that we live in now allows so many different platforms and ease of use to submit a tip, whether it's through text or whatnot, that the kids are way more likely to let people know. Whereas back in the day, it was pen and paper, dropping notes in a box, and hopefully somebody answered that. But at the end of the day, in regards to technology, it's all about those relationships. Those students don't feel the trust. If they don't feel that you honestly care about their well-being, then they're not going to care. And we're seeing some improvements in that area. I really believe we are. And again, the Zesa Rose are a huge resource in making that happen. Yeah, that engagement. I don't work in that environment, so I don't think about that. There's a privacy issue, I ask, with the kids and the reporting of their information and all that kind of stuff. Is there sort of like legal advice per state, per county, per city? Is that difficult to go through, or is that engaged in your basic SRO training package? They know what information you can share and not share about perhaps some juvenile that you've engaged with or talked with. Yeah, you kind of have two sides of the coin. So you've got the juvenile justice rules and laws you've got to follow on the law enforcement side. And then that's part of that training you get through NASRO is in the basic course of instruction, it goes over FERPA and HIPAA and those different things that are the school kind of based laws and what you can share and who you can share with and different things like that. Yeah, sounds pretty involved. So interesting. And so give us a picture. In your intro, you said you came from one district and now you're into another one. What's the just number of schools, number of students kind of that you have oversight on there? Yeah, so I was in Charleston. We had 80 schools right around 65, 70,000 students. Wow. And then in Rock Hill, I had 20, I should know this, it was only four months ago, 29 schools and 17,800 students. Wow. And from my audience, we're live, so we don't prep this up. We just talk stories, so he didn't expect that question. But anyway, don't worry about that. So on this SRO thing, I want to get into the past a little bit after the break, but on this sort of, I don't want to call proliferation, but the administration of this SRO community, obviously some success with engagement with the students, is that a thing that we should invest in more and you think we'll see more investment in? Is there an appetite for the growth of that program? Yeah, I think there absolutely is. Obviously, if Moe Kennedy or somebody over at NASRO can tell you a little bit more about the stats of things, but no, absolutely, that is a growing industry. But again, the hang-up is where are you going to find the officers? Who's volunteering to get into law enforcement right now? Yeah. I've joined in 2000. I can't tell you honestly that I would sign up for law enforcement in this day and time with everything that's going on and the constant questioning and life safety issues for the officers. It's a tough world. More props than I can imagine to those guys and girls that are signing up on a daily basis to take on that role. Yeah, the blue line. We love our law enforcement. I lost my train of thought. Well, we'll skip that. Let's talk a little bit about how you got involved with PASS with the folks at NSCA. Now, I knew when they started to build that. It must have been five or six years ago now, but it's really matured quite a bit. So what was your initial engagement with NSCA? Because you were in law enforcement. How did you sort of find PASS? Yeah, so in 2014, they came out with the first version and I was able to get involved with them last year with version four. And we were currently working on version five. So PASS is a conglomeration of multiple disciplines. So you've got NSCA, you've got SIA, you've got ASIS, you've got safe and sound schools, which is Michelle Gay organization out of Newtown. You've got, sorry, slipping on my mind right now, Secure Schools Alliance. Robert Boyd in that group. Awesome. So Door, sorry. I guess you know these all off the top of my head, right? No, but I didn't know we had... Door Security and Safety Foundation. I didn't know we had so many groups. Yeah, I really did. There's multiple organizations that are associated with it. The manufacturing, the... So I got involved with it right after I won Campus Safety Magazine record of the year. Awesome. And was approached to those guys about joining. So at the time, Guy Grace from Little Chin, Colorado was the chair of that. Guy and I had some conversations at a couple of different conferences. And so Guy and I were the two end users that were on that. I jokingly told them that they brought me on board to dumb it down some so that it wasn't over everybody's head. I was thinking for the Cliff Notes version. Yeah, right. No, I've heard Guy talk to you. They need that sort of insight and that passion that you guys bring from the end user perspective. I think it shows in the depth of the document itself. Kevin, we're going to take about a one minute break. We're going to pay a few bills, and we'll be right back with Kevin Wren. Stick around. Aloha. My name is Wendy Lowe, and I want you to join me as we take our health back. On my show, all we do is talk about things in everyday life, in Hawaii or abroad. I have guests on board that will just talk about different aspects of health in every way, whether it's medical health, nutritional health, diabetic health. You name it, we'll talk about it. Even financial health. We'll even have some of the Miss Hawaii's on board. And all the different topics that I feel will make your health and your lifestyle a lot better. So come join me. I welcome you to take your health back. Mahalo. Aloha. I'm Winston Welch, host of Out and About. It's a show that we have every other Monday on Think Tech Live here. We explore a variety of topics that are really interesting. We have organizations, events, and the people who fuel them in our city, state, country, and world. We've got some amazing guests on here, like all the shows at Think Tech. So if you want to catch up on stuff, tune into my show every other Monday and other shows here on Think Tech Live. It's a great place to learn about stuff, to be informed, and if you have some ideas, come on my show. Let's talk about it. See you later. Aloha. Hey, welcome back to Security Matters Hawaii. We're talking with a true school security professional today. Kevin Wren from A3 Communications. And Kevin, we were just getting into pass a little bit. The partner alliance for safer schools. I did not know so many groups were involved. I feel like sort of Chuck Wilson built it and everybody else must have jumped on. Is that a fair? Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And Guy's passion and Doc and Mark, and it just kind of spiraled, and they keep getting bigger and better every year. I think it's a 95-page document now, and it's only going to get bigger as more and more technology comes on board and we're figuring out a better way, a safer way to protect our kids. Yeah. Not only did it just a large number of organizations that are involved with pass and that people have helped write it. It's gotten a lot of headway with a lot of traction, I should say. It's referenced in NFPA 3000 with Asher, the Federal Commission on School Safety, has referenced it. Margaret Stelman Douglas report recommends it. Ohio Schools Security report recommends it. So it just kind of goes on and on. Wow. A lot more traction. I wish I knew how many downloads of the past document we've had up to this point, but our goal is that every administrator, especially anyone involved in school security, architects, et cetera, are looking at that document as a reference source for where to start, where to begin. As you know, we've got all kinds of fire codes, but we've got no security codes. Yeah. And I think that's what makes it so palatable. And so let's talk about that a little bit. It was designed for the school that has no budget, and then the school that has a little budget, and then the school that has a larger budget maybe. So you really can get engaged with this document at a very basic level to start protecting the students. And I don't think people know that. They think it's millions of dollars worth of electronic stuff, right? Right, absolutely. And the first thing that we say is policies and procedures. I don't cost you any money. There's a ton of free resources. Passes a free resource. I love you guys' foundations, safe and sound schools. The REMs through the Department of Ed, all free resources, FEMA, all free resources. And we said, look at this smartly, look at your policies and procedures, and then look at training your people. None of that costs a penny. We don't start looking at video cameras until like letter six. So it's not the first thing we're doing is going to spending money. There's some smart processes out there and we just need to be thoughtful about what we're doing. Yeah, and to your earlier point about the engagement with the SROs, right? If the faculty, if the administration starts to engage students in these discussions about security while we need it, that consensus building can take a while before you start locking down doors or putting up metal detectors or whatever it may be, right? I mean, it's super valuable to have the buy-in of your clients when you're going to be doing security. I think we've all implemented security at a place where the people didn't want it. They thought we're invading their privacy and just all these types of things. Those considerations are human and they need to be addressed with students as much as any population. Exactly. In a school security world, I get to kick back from the principles I've heard many a time. You're not going to turn my school to a prison. You're right, I'm not. We've got to find that balance between prison environment and open kumbaya. Everybody goes everywhere. There's a balance in there. And every community, every school is different and unique. The past guidelines basically says if you have a dollar to spend for school safety and security, spend it here first all the way through to you have so much money, you don't know what to do with yourself. Here's all kinds of crazy analytics, right? You can get into. But yeah, it's filling that gap, right? Where there is no standards and we all know that you're going to put a pool station in an exit door. It's in fire code. It mandates it. But should I buy security cameras first? Should I buy access control? Should I buy visitor management? Should I? So that's where the document comes in handy to say, hey, start here. Work your way up. Make sure that we're being smart. Becoming creditors of some of these unscrupulous manufacturers out there that are preying on fear. The door barricade companies, the bulletproof backpacks, bulletproof, you name it, they're calling it bulletproof and trying to sell it to a school district. I had somebody the other day tell me they were approached and sat through a meeting a six foot by six foot Kevlar curtain for the smooth price of $8,000 per classroom. Right. I do not know who makes this stuff and I do not know what's in their brain, but they think there's some money there that there's not. The school districts are strapped. They've got a lot of things that they got to support. Securities, I think, finally come up and get in the attention that it needs across the nation. Some have more money than others, that's for sure. There's been some major grant programs, I think, that maybe NSCA was able to help get some money funded if you were using past guidelines along with an integrator to help you build a program out. Is that something you guys were able to do there? And I do not know if that's happened yet or if it was just still a discussion. Well, I think there are grants out there, the school bond prevention grant is out there. That will last year's submittal should be awarded by the end of this month. Awesome. I would imagine next year it will open up somewhere around January, February for a due date of somewhere in May. But that's one of the things with any grant is they want one of those standards. Why? Why are you asking for half million dollars for this product or for the implement ABC? Yeah. Well, that's where pass comes in. Passes is standards. It's standardization. Where are you starting? Where are you going? So you're able to look at your buildings, your assessment buildings, you say, hey, we're at a tier one for camera. We're at a tier two for access control. We want to get to tier three with everything. Here's how much it's going to cost. It's going to help you with your budget proposal. It helps you with the standardizations that are going to be needed when you apply for competitive grant. Yeah. I don't know if it's the last version I was looking at. It was sort of I think it was almost square footage base or something like you really could get an idea of from the size of your school or the student population sort of what kind of budget you might require for to achieve, let's say, a tier two with your access control system, for example. Is that continued to evolve? I think now you're out to the district layer or something like that. I think with layer five or six? Yeah. There's several different layers. A district-wide layer looking at policies, procedures and standardization of systems. I think one of the biggest things in that district layer that I've come into now that I've my role with A3 is school safety. I've been able to travel the southeast and see all these different states and schools and where they are. I'm seeing a lot of decentralization meaning the school district has capital funds or general operating funds and they're giving that money to the principals and the principals are determining, hey, where to put a camera or I'm going to resurface the gym floor instead of buying access control. And I think that decentralization opens them up to some liabilities, especially when you have a principal down the street that says, hey, I'm going to spend all my money around safety and security. So the centralization and creating those standards on that wide, wide approach. And then we look at a property layer, your athletic facilities, your perimeter fencing your outside perimeter area. Before we then look at a parking lot, building in the lobe and finally your classroom layers. And then of course each layer is then tiered according to several different categories of policy, procedures, communications, video surveillance, access control, etc. Yeah, and these I know you mentioned campus security magazines, how you first met, I think, Gary. Is that have you seen that, that I haven't attended those conferences, I think they do two a year now and I haven't has that Kevin I said Miss Hatter's Lee and her group, but have they have you seen a lot more attendance in that are those gaining momentum or administrators showing up or school people funded to go to these types of events and learn? Yeah, so they do an east, a texas and a west every year. And the attendance I think overall is very good. It can always be better, right? Yeah, yeah. The problem with any conferences is time, time for principals time for superintendents and competing interests. School security is not the number one priority for schools. It's education. School security and safety is a priority, but it's not the priority. Yeah, and they need to be spending their time looking at you know, reading, writing and science and how to better educate my child and your child. But in the same breath, they forgot to be aware of the safety, security and the passes and organization can simplify things and make it easier for them to create a plan than that's why we're here. And that's why I'm here. Brian Thomas, owner of A3 he approached me and said, hey Kevin, they're school districts and schools that just need help. I don't need you to sell anything I just need you to go help. And I'm like, Brian, I can do that. What an opportunity. I applaud that effort. That's a thing that's you mentioned how a lot of the these schools, people with funds get blasted by this technology or you need to do it this way. And I think like you said, passes brought order to that. It's trustworthy. It's freely available to school administrators and people that are concerned about this type of thing. So they ought to get engaged. And I applaud A3's efforts to go out there and help the schools because it's a lot. And that does free them up to do the education bit. You know, we've got minute 15 left. You want to share just your some closing thoughts with the people that are maybe watching this and for the first time going, wow, I need to do something. What would you advise them to do? Don't get hung up on fear. You know, your children are in the safest place they can be inside of a school building. Just remember that and let's be thoughtful about what we're doing. An active shooter seems to be whatever everybody on the media wants to talk about. That's the new hot topic. There's way more to school safety and security than an active shooter. While they're traumatic we have to have a plan in place. There's other things out there and those events are human nature and as such are very complex and you can't buy your way out of it. You've got to look at mental health. You've got to look at physical security. You've got to look at building relationships. That's awesome. Kevin, I really appreciate you spending time with us here today. Your point about building those relationships. I mean, we need to build them at home. Our students, our school administrators are there to help. If you see something, folks out there, the bugs, you say something to somebody. Don't let your friends go down. I'll rabbit hole. They don't need to go down. Kevin, I really appreciate you spending time with me today. Hopefully we'll get you back on the next past version and we'll update the audience. Thanks for having me and helping move the ball forward. Appreciate you. Take care. Allah haf.