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You can find these at mapsfitnessproducts.com. Just use the code JulySpecial with no space for that discount. All right, enjoy this amazing show. Did you catch Justin's workout this morning? I got the one that's on film. Did you catch it? It was in your face. I got it. So I showed up about 20 minutes or so late to workout today. It's my day in the life. So I was doing a prediction of what would be going on. All right, before you came in? Yeah, yeah. So here's the, you know, I'm coming in. I'm sure you're way off because we're not creatures that happen at home. Man, was I almost dead on. And honestly, I was disappointed Sal didn't have his headphones on that. I missed on that. I forgot them today. Is that why? Yes. So what were your predictions? So I said, well, you mean you watch it on the story. So I mean, Andrew can post up so the viewers can see my exact predictions. But all right, let's see what we got here. Any guesses on what everyone's doing when they walk in? So it's like a 820 right now. So that means Sal should be midway into his workout. I'm guessing we're in a wife beater by now, so he's probably got a good pump. He's got his generic big headphones on walking around puffed out. And then Justin is probably pushing a sled. And then I'm betting Doug, by the way, lives around the corner is still not here. Oh, I was pretty accurate on this guy was Justin doing over there. Morning, big guy. You got this guy here today, huh? Huh? Just a Justin swinging clubs. I predicted he'd be pushing the sled. I was close. Hey, pretty close, though. You know, pretty close. I wasn't expecting Andrew to be in here. You know, pretty spot on, Sal. I said, by this time, I said, Sal will be peeled down to his wife beater. Probably walking around flexing around 830. Yeah, exactly. I said he'll probably have his generic big headphones on that he'll have. He'll be rocking. I said, and then Justin will probably be driving a sled. And then I said, Doug, who lives around the corner, probably still won't be here. And I was right on all of it, except for your headphones. Well, Justin was actually swinging the clubs. And then 10 minutes later, he was pushing the sleigh. So it was pretty, pretty close. He was moving some weight this morning. You would have been accurate if I wouldn't have had to explain everything I was doing, which really annoys me. But you know what, it's fine because I definitely enjoyed doing that and having that sort of a thing that I was going to do. Such the trainer in you. I was so annoyed I had to explain what I was doing. Dude, man, I just want to, like, when I work out, I just want to work out. Yeah, I'm rousing you about it. 100% agree with you that isn't that something funny? That's your special time, dude. Right. There's only two special times you have. And you spend, you want to come in the bedroom with me next? Like, what are we doing here? Yeah, like, explain what I'm going to explain with other people. I remember this was actually one of the challenges I always had when I was dating somebody and we would try and work out together. And of course they want, you know, my expertise, if that's what I do. You know, should I do this, should I do that? And like, I'm taking my headphones off. I'm having to explain every time and like, I would get so frustrated. But, you know, it's like, dude, you that's your job, right? You do that all day long with tons of people for many years. You, I think that you start to, I don't know, you start, what's the word I'm looking for as far as, you hold your workouts as sacred. Totally. Oh, right. And it's like, this is my time where I don't got to teach or I could just do what I want to do. And for whatever reasons I want, because that's the other thing too, everyone's like, well, why did you do that? Why did you go over there from that one? Or why only this many sets? Especially since we're explaining things all day long now. Like, that's our life, right? Which is great. I mean, even with, to my kids, you know, when I get home too, I'm just like, everything is always me kind of like trying to explain what I'm doing. So that's just like, I just like to hyper focus and to just get in the zone and just kind of do the work. Yeah. That's for a hundred percent. That's my special time. It's like, don't talk to me. Like, leave me alone. I don't want to hear about chores or shit I did wrong. Like, let me just do my shit and let me work out. But I'll tell you what happened this morning. So I come in before Justin, right? And I'm forgot my headphones. So annoying. I can't stand it when I do that, but I'm whatever. So I Bluetooth up my phone to the speaker and Justin and I will often listen to similar workout when we're both working out hard. Right. So it's like sepultera. I came in this straight death metal. So no, no. I had mine on. Focus on the dead people. You got me really fucked up. Yeah, I was trying to do some stuff today. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. Hold on. I needed a little anger in there. Good morning. Well, hold on. First of all, first of all, we're going to go science here. Studies show that music makes a big difference. Thank you. Big difference in performance. Obviously it's different from person to person, but it makes a huge difference in performance. But here's the here's the thing I was going to say. There's levels to evil music. I had mine on and I thought he's going to love this shit. Well, obviously Justin's coming in here to break things. So he's listening and he's like, I got to change this shit. I'm like, yeah, I sort of showed my colors a little bit today, which was a little vulnerable. I don't typically do that. That's one of the funny things is I always I'm always like, I can't I can't play this on a speaker and have people listen to what I actually listen to when I work out, because it's just not compatible. Let's just say. So yeah, it was playing good music. No doubt it was good music. But I had this intention of trying to do like one or two things that was like pressing it a bit for me and to be completely transparent. I even like yesterday had to make sure I could still do it. So it's like kind of going through the motion, you know, kind of prepping a little bit. I'm like, oh man, I haven't really like pushed it in a bit. So I tried to push a little bit. Definitely I'm going to feel it tomorrow. I'm guaranteed. He was overhead pressing Big Bertha. The big, what is it? 120 pound monster kettlebell. You can single arm press that? Yeah. Wow. He's a moose. What is that 135 or 120? 120, 123 I think. Wow. Yeah, that's a monster. So yeah, he had to put on the scary. Like I said, that was the top. Like I was like. Yeah, when I'm feeling good, I can probably get like 90s on the circus press. But if you hit 120 on that monster. Yeah, let's just, I can't wait to see what the mind pump meme guy does with my face. I have no idea what kind of faces I was making. Is it working out? You know, like I'm sure it was just. He's been on fire lately. What are you close to today? I started to laugh. Oh, the mind pump handshake. And then somebody underneath it. I don't know if you guys saw it. Someone underneath it actually commented on who's each guy. You know, so you were the guy that's doing the, you know, walking around to each one of us to hype us all up. Doug was the first guy. I was the second guy who you jumped into my lap. And then Justin was the last guy who got the little ass slap or whatever. Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious. I know people kind of kind of like. Good game. Yeah, that's funny. No, and you know, it's funny when I'm doing my own thing, I have almost no regard to, I mean, some regard, but almost none to my own safety. Like if I feel like I'm going to lift something heavy, like I'm, I'm going to do it. I'm in the zone. But when I'm watching someone else, I'm like safety guy. Right. So I'm watching Justin hoist this big ass heavy full on iron kettlebell up to his shoulder. And I'm like, please God, please don't break something. Yeah. Don't let this be like a filmed, like injury. I said it'll go viral. That's what I was thinking about yesterday. I was like, oh God, don't go hurt yourself. Because we're trying to live up to what Sal said. I mean, no lie. Exactly. That sort of like, you know, gave me that extra incentive. And I was a little bit concerned because last night, I didn't get the greatest of sleep. And I'll tell you why because we watched. So somebody had recommended a movie to me because of, I think they know that I'm in the Colts and sort of a thing that I'm like obsessed with. And I had no idea this genre existed. I mean, I'm sure you might, you know, you don't watch scary movies. So I'm not going to include you again. But it's cult horror. So it's like psychological terror that it was, this movie is called Empty Man. It was horrible. Oh no. It was terrifying. Empty Man. I want to watch that. Oh, it was terrifying. Oh, I love that. And not only that. Oh, so it was horrible because it was scary or was it horrible because it was terrible to watch? Because it's like twisted, it sounds like. Because it messes, it's one of those. This guy loves that stuff. It messes with your brain, you know, like the way that you think and stuff. It's like in the mouth of Madness or like, you know, Horizon. Like those always scared me more than, you know, the slasher movies or jumping movies. Like no big deal, right? These like get into your brain and, you know, scramble everything. You're like, oh, I don't like this. That's how I judge a scary movie. Do I feel a little bit like, do I feel different afterwards in a bad way? So do I feel bad afterwards? Then I know this was a good one. I pulled Courtney in on this because I don't know if I can watch this by myself. You know, I'm like watching it. And she was so mad at me for making her watch this with me. Like they pulled out all the stops in this movie. It was just like, like children of the corn, like, like this whole like, all these cult members together would like all of a sudden turn, you know, and look and then they're like close to you and then. Hey, look at Adam squeezing his water bottle right now. I was like, ooh. You know what I want to know? What is the psychology behind what drives humans to want to watch? Do you like roller coasters? I do, but it's different. No, it's similar. What I mean is it's the excitement of getting scared, but being safe. That's all it is. That's it. You're not, yeah, he's not actually inside the movie. I mean, is that the true psychology on it? Is that the psychology, Doug, of wanting to watch a scary movie? Because I mean, I get what happens to you as far as the adrenaline rush, but it doesn't end there. It's not like, like a roller coaster, you go over the hill and it's like, ooh, and then it's over. Yeah. Wait, hold on. You watch a scary movie. You back up for a second. Wow. Although I've never done that on a roller coaster. Sounds like you had a premature situation. So you do it and then it's like, oh man, that was awesome. And then it's over. Scary movies. Not true. Ruin the whole night. No, not true. Whole night. Well, that's because you're a little scaredy cat. But here's the thing. Let me ask you this. When you were younger and you were driving fast and stuff in your car, now looking back as an adult man, can you see some of the dangerous, like real dangerous shit you did? Of course. But it was the excitement that you exhilarated on some level. Here's, by the way, don't do this. This is literally one of the stupidest possible things you could do. But I remember talking to Adam because him and I were very similar in how dumb we were with our cars when we were younger. There was this game that I played with my friends, which is the dumbest. Seriously, if my kid did this, I would take his car away and he would not drive for years. We would drive on a dirt road with no, obviously, no street lights, and we'd turn off the headlights and then play chicken. Who is the first person to yell to turn the headlights on? So you're literally driving in pitch black. Adam, you did the same thing. Yeah, and the fog we used to race. Yeah. So yeah, and you would race people. Stupid. But the psychological phenomena behind that is you're scared and terrified, but then you're safe. So scary movies emulate that. But you just have a different knowledge. I mean, that's an interesting theory that I can't completely agree with because I would never do something like that or do that right before I want to go to bed. Yeah. Because that was the problem. Like, when I did stuff like that, OK, when I did this, the stupid read. Hold on, I admit that was a problem. Are you in bed with the sheets out, like, looking around? No, I'm watching the movie like this, you know what I'm saying? Or pretending like I need to do something on my shoe, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to say something like that in the video. Yeah, well too. I haven't watched a movie that did that to me a long time, but I was doing that. And I was, the only way I could get through it was to like yell at it, you know? And I'm like that guy. I'm like, no, what are you doing? Why? You know, why would you do this? And I'm just like, oh, I'm going to go get myself something to eat. If I start, if you hear, if you ever watch me watch a movie like that and you hear me start laughing, you know it's getting to me. Yes. Because something will happen. I was laughing my way through it, too. And I'll start laughing. And what I'm laughing at is myself. Like, oh, they got me. Like that. This is messing with my head a little bit. Yeah. I like that. My sister loves it. My cans, I do not. I wouldn't do it every night. It's a once in a while thing where you push it that hard. But then there's other horror movies that are just fun and campy because I appreciate the genre so much. So like watching horror movies from the 80s, like Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street, they're kind of campy, they're gruesome, but there's an art to them. On Netflix, there's this series that taps into that. That is really good and it's new and it's trending right now. It's Fear Street. Have you guys seen it? Oh, I've seen the preview. I haven't watched that, but. So there's Fear Street 1994. All right. Okay. Now I saw that. Is it based off of R.L. Stein series? Oh, it is. Yes. And they did a good job. I read most of those. So I'd be interested in watching that. So it's a really good job of that kind of campy, old school kind of work. Where you actually get Resolve. No. Okay. No, I got no, dude. Honestly, I don't recommend this movie, by the way. So I think you're going to waste a lot of your time and you're going to suffer through the night. Now, were you sober when you watched it or did you have an edible or something? You had an edible. That makes it worse. Totally intensified. Yeah. You don't want to watch, you don't want to do something that increases your paranoia. And it was all like psychologically, I mean, they're talking about your brains itching right now. And I'm just like, no, it's not. Yeah. I was like in this thing. But how different are all, you're watching that. I'm watching the NBA finals last night. What are you watching last night? I watched, I was watching Fear Street. So I watched Fear Street 1994, then the next one. Doug, what were you watching last night? I didn't watch anything. No TV last night. None. Dirty movies. Yeah, that's what that means. I don't classify that. If you took a laptop on the screen, he's like, oh, I wasn't watching anything. Oh, yeah. That's not what your history says. Okay. No, actually I did watch. I watched that, what's it called, Born to Choose? Oh, Freed to Choose. Freed to Choose, No Freedmen. Yeah, I was watching that. Tell me how good that is. That is good. You know, the thing about Milton Friedman that I, see, now you fucked everything up because you brought him up. So now I'm going to talk about Milton Friedman. Oh my God. What do I give? You know, the thing about him that's so incredible is he takes, he makes everything so very easily, easy to understand, very pragmatic. He doesn't get caught up in the minutia of his, you know, how he talks about economics, how it affects people and freedom. Highly recommend, it's an old series that was filmed, I believe, in the 1970s, early 80s. But it's so relevant. And what's good about it is he makes predictions or he talks about what will happen if certain things happen. And those things did happen. And sure enough, his predictions came very true. So it stands this test of time. There was a really good one. I went down the rabbit hole too on that dug of Milton Friedman. It's Sal was sending over stuff. And so that's probably why Doug and I both were watching it. And I found this video of him. And the title is Milton Friedman Debates Young Michael Moore. You told me it's not Michael Moore. No, but it looks like it would be. But I found the debate really compelling because the person who stood up to challenge Milton Friedman, I thought had a very interesting argument that at first, or face value, I would actually kind of agree. Like he made it, he talks about Ford. Ford did the pinto, is that correct? Yeah. Ford did the pinto. So Ford came out with the Ford pinto. And I don't remember what year it was, but it came out with the Ford pinto. And I guess that they did not put this piece in. It would have been like, I guess it was like a $13 or $15 piece of plastic, like a plastic box that was supposed to be between the bumper and the gas tank. And Ford opted not to do that. The reason why they opted not to do that, because $15 times, I don't know how many tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of vehicles would cost millions of dollars to put that in the vehicle, and they were trying to keep it at a certain price point. And it was estimated that 200 people a year would potentially die from this. From this. And so when I hear that, I'm like, oh my God, they put a car out there that, statistically speaking, that they would probably, they would know for sure that 200, oh, 1971 to 76. So 200 people would potentially die. And the case the kid was trying to make was that, that government should make them do that. For safety reasons, they should have to do that. And he goes into the, and I'm thinking, wow, man, that's not a bad case. I could get behind that, obviously, like that's dangerous. But then the way he spun it and explained what the kid was trying to ask, because his response back to him said, well, what if the park cost $2 million to put in there? Well, it's not. It was just $13. He goes, well, you're arguing the wrong points. It's about principle. And so how much is that life, saving those lives value? What price would it not be worth it? Exactly. What price is it worth it and not worth it at? And that's why he did the exaggeration of $2 million. And you could see the kid's wheels spinning. And he goes, listen, that's the beauty of the free market is that you make the choice that, okay, I want to buy this car, the Pinto, which was designed to be this cheap car that people could afford. That's correct. And with that, it's at risk. We all know that you could buy a hummer for $100,000 that is literally a tank on wheels. And I guarantee that the same amount of people would not die from the same rear-end accident that went from a Pinto. But then you also pay $100,000 instead of $10,000 or whatever the Pinto was. That choice goes to the consumer. It's the same reason like why do we sell junk food, which accounts for more deaths by far than almost anything else, right? Why do we sell any product that could potentially be dangerous? At the end of the day, the choice goes to the consumer to make these particular, you know. And there's always a risk. That's why there's competitors too. Like you get like a Volvo or one of these other like type of, you know, vehicle manufacturers that are just specifically focused on that point, the safety, right? And so that's going to appeal to a certain type of consumer versus, you know, another consumer that wants all of the bell's whistles, wants the high performance, knows that there's a lot of risk involved. Plus, this is a hypothetical argument. If you actually go back and look at cars that were actually made by the state, because there were a few, the Soviet Union and East Germany, they had- Germany did the bug, right? Isn't that what they do? Well, that became, of course, there was competitors and stuff like that. I'm talking about cars where the state actually said, here's the car. This is what you guys are going to drive. We're taking care of it. And they were terrible. They were terrible, polluting, dangerous. Yeah, do you know the history of the Cadillac converter? And so I was watching something. I went down a rabbit hole one day and actually heard some of that too, that there was like a lot of the car companies were actually fighting that. They didn't, they knew that how much pollution that it was creating. And then all they had to do was put a Cadillac converter on there and they refused to do it. So there was a time when you didn't have to have that on there. Do you know the history of that? No, I don't know that. Okay, you have to look at that. But here's a good example. I don't know if it's like this anymore, but when I was a kid, so this is a bit of a, there's a bit of a monopoly when it comes to school buses, right? School bus company, there's a private company that makes a school bus that signs a contract with public schools and then they become the only provider of school buses. Now, when I was a kid, we knew wearing seat belts was safe. You had to wear seat belts, always wear seat belts. The one vehicle that I would be in that didn't even have seat belts was a school bus. Yeah, that's all filled with kids. Kids, and there's no seat belts whatsoever, right? So in real life, it's actually always typically much worse. But yeah, I appreciate the way he presents some of that stuff. Speaking of kids, I have some kid stories for you. First one is Max, I'll share last to last night watching the game. And he's going, whenever he goes to these kind of leaps that he's going through or regressions, whatever you want to call it, he's extra attached to me. Like he's already, you guys see how he is with me and everything like that. And then when he is going through a growth spurt or teeth and molars coming in or something like that, it's like just as soon as I walk on the door, he's attached to me till he goes to bed. And he's now at the age and size and we're climbing on the bed. We now know how to open doors and stuff like that. So I can't get away. Bathroom time is not even free time for me, right? And I don't know if it was on the podcast or this was just, I don't know if I remember when I shared just last week or the week before we left on vacation, my embarrassing moment of not shaking enough before after I go into the bathroom. I don't know if that was on the podcast. I don't know if it was on the podcast. I don't think so. You're referring to the post P dribble. Every guy knows. Yeah, exactly. That's right. If you're trying to say that's never happened, you piss off. And listen, whoever came up with this arbitrary rule of you shake it like three times, like anymore is your plan, like get out of here. Every guy, every guy has pulled his drawers up at a baseball game or a hurry or something like that and realized, damn it, I should have shook two more times before, right? 100%. Anyways, we were talking about that the other day, right? Science. So that was fresh in my mind because we had just talked about that. This guy follows me into the bathroom, going to the bathroom, can't get no peace and stuff like that. And it's like, I used to try and fight it and he yells and it bangs on the door and makes a big deal of just whatever, let him in. And so he's messing with me as I'm on the toilet and trying to climb on me like, no, no, no, Max does that. But anyways, finished going to the bathroom, I pulled my drawers up and I'm like, oh, again. Right? And it's like, but this is soaked. He was, he's drooling so bad right now. So when he was trying to climb on me, he's drooled into my underwear. And so my underwear was soaked and when I pulled it up, I thought I like, yeah, I thought it was me. I'm like, how did that happen? You know, I've been sitting there for like five minutes. There's no way I didn't shake enough or get it out. You know what I'm saying? He has a mind of its own. Oh man, I pulled him up and my drawers were all soaking wet and then I realized that he was drooling in my underwear while I was doing that. There's your first kid story. These are great stories to tell when they start to become embarrassed by dad. Like when you have their friends over and they're like, oh, this is my friend, John. Oh, hey, what's up, John? Hey, let me tell you a story about the time. About my son. About the time your friend there, you know. I told this story on the podcast before about when a dog peed on my crotch. No. On your crotch. I know when your dog peed on your shoe. I remember when your dog shit on your shoe. Well, that was a different. That's my dog I have right now that's, you know, yeah, he's special. But no, this was when I was a kid and I was at my friend's house and we actually were there with a bunch of adults. It was like a party or something. I was outside and the dog kept like sniffing my crotch and like, I was like, get out of here. And it was, it was like a golden retriever or something. And we're out there just kind of playing. And all of a sudden the dog keep, dude, the dog would not leave me alone. It just kept like going right for the crotch. So obviously smelled something enticing. I don't know what was going on there. Wanted to like claim it or something. Liz's leg up literally dry starts peeing on my crotch. And I'm just like, like baffled by this. And I'm like, oh, oh, and I'm like, and my friend was the only one that saw it. And she was like, oh my God, it started laughing. And I'm like pushing the dog off me. I'm all mad, I storm inside. And you know, I'm like, oh my God, the dog peed on me. And everybody in there was, oh yeah. Nobody believed me. They're like, oh, this guy just peed himself and came up with this cover story of the dog peeing on him to this day. I wouldn't believe that. Yeah, I wouldn't do that cold bullshit too. Dude, it was like it was the most random thing. It's like the people that go to the emergency room with something stuck up their butt. Oh yeah, the batteries, the four batteries in the rear of their butt. They're like, oh, I think they fell. Meanwhile, it's like a shaved carrot. Yeah, I was thinking a shower while I was making a salad. It's so strange. You won't even believe what happened. What are the odds, right? So are you guys getting close to potty training? Yeah, so that's all. We're going through all kinds of big transition for him right now. So we're getting ready to put him in a Montessori. I know I think I messed up. Montessori, right? Not Sarri Montessori school. I don't know. I know Montessori. Sorry. So you looked into it and you are thinking about knowing? Yeah, three days a week, he's going to be in a Montessori school. You can start them at three days a week at a Montessori school. If they're not potty trained, they'll actually assist and help that. So that's, and then once he is, then he can go full time there. So we're starting to do that with him. Oh, as I was going to tell you, you could tell we're real close to like starting to string some words together. Like he's all of these new sounds this week because he was hanging out with my two buddies kids who are a year and a half and a year older and they're talking. And they're just such a cool, this is one of my favorite ages. When you start getting to that three to five range and they can say things and you can A little personality. Yeah, I just told you guys the other day how I taught my buddy's daughter Kosher. And then she was, so my other buddy, we were getting ready to leave to go to the lake and he was like screaming at his dad. Yeah, because he was like, dad. And Justin was doing something in the house. I don't know what he was doing. And he's trying to get his attention and Justin was busy and he was starting to get really frustrated and want to cry. Hunter, relax, come here. I said, listen, you ever want to get your dad's attention when you want to leave? You yell regulators. And he looks at me all kind of weird. I said, yes, can you say that? Yeah. And he tries to say it a couple of times. And he goes, regulator. And so they started, dad, regulators, regulators. And Justin starts laughing. He's like, what's the hell? I said, he gets his attention. So it worked, right? So now he's like, no, he doesn't all the time. Right. So my buddy sent me a video of him in the grocery store. Uncle Adam uncle regulators. Uncle Adam, regulators. He's like, I have some favorite age right now. You know what's funny is when they start to, when they get out of diapers, they're learning to go to the bathroom on their own. And then there's this transitionary period where they're on the toilet. They figured out how to poop, but they don't wipe yet. So then they go to the bathroom and they're like, dad, dad. And you got to go in there and wipe. And I remember when my son first did this, you go in there and you wipe for them, right? Or whatever. And then you teach them, okay, you got to try doing this on your own. Well, anyway, the first time he did it, I go to change him or what. I'm like, oh my God, there's poop in your, like, did you wipe? Like, how did you wipe? He's like, yeah, I wipe, I wipe. I said, okay, next time you go to the bathroom, let me see how you wipe. So you go to the bathroom and wipe. And he would just wipe his cheek. Like, just a cheek. Yeah, I know you got to wipe the bitter dude. You're missing by about six inches. Yeah, bro. He would literally, he'd get it and go like, wipe it in a circle on his cheek. He could do it. Ever would do the opposite, right? So it would take the entire roll. It'd just be like, plop, plop, plop, plop, plop, plop. Until it was like, face the little thing was done and then just smash it all in there, right? And then it would just like, particles were everywhere. So we're doing a method that starts Thursday. Katrina just started that. I don't remember. We didn't definitely, I know we didn't do this with my younger brother and sister when we were potty training them. And I don't know what the name of it is. Maybe one of you guys know or are familiar with it, but it's a three-day thing. Potty training three days. But the deal is like, you literally need three days of 100% by their side all day long because you keep them naked. We did that, yeah. So did you do that? Yeah, so you keep them naked all day long. And as soon as they got to go, boom. Yeah, and they're going to make the first few times, they're going to definitely camp out on a weekend and make it work. Yeah, I try it. I'm going to have, so I have those, I don't know if you guys have met my house before. Potty pads? Well, no, we're going to lay this plastic. You can get it home depot. You can get this like clear saran wrap. So I'm going to run it all over the carpet area and then we've got a lot of tile in the house and stuff like that. And we're just going to keep them on the lower floor and just naked for three days. And then do the cheerio, you know, in the air. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Supposedly it's my buddy, both my buddies did it with their kids and said, yeah, after three, they went from not at all even close potty training to full-on potty training after three days. Wow, that's great. Yeah, and there's, of course, there's some, you know, growing pains a little bit through different moments if they're scared or you know, they're at a different place that you hurtles you'll have. But for the most part, like went on, went from not potty training at all to full-blown. Now, are you guys using the, are you going to use the regular toilet or are you going to use like a little- So both. So we have- Because the thing about the little carry toilet, the kid one, is sometimes the kid, then it only will use that. Right. So then anywhere you go- So they have these other things. So we just bought a bunch of stools to get up on the big boy toilet or whatever. Yeah. Well, you want to call it right? Big boy. Dad talk. Hey, do you want to start doing that? You know what's really embarrassing? When you're with all adults or a business meeting and I go, I got to go pee pee real quick. You're going to get too full. Did I just say that? I got to go potty. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big old business meeting and stuff. I got to go pee pee real quick. Oh my God, dude. No. So we're going to get these little stools or whatever to get up on the toilet. And then they have these inserts that sit on the toilet. Yeah. So you actually sit on- So he doesn't fall inside. Yeah. So he doesn't fall inside, right? So we have both of those. And then we have two bathrooms on the lower level. And then we'll set that stuff up, surround wrap everything or whatever. And just for three days, keep them down there. So that's literally happening this week. So I'll be able to report back next week to see the success of it or not. Right now with the baby, we're doing this timer method where we do a timer to help encourage patients. So like, okay, we're going to eat in two minutes and we'll do the timer and it's visual. And when he sees it, he'll watch it. And you know what he did yesterday, this little turkey? He's eight months old. We set the timer for him to eat because he gets so antsy and anticipates eating and he wants to eat right away. And we're trying to teach him patience. You got to wait. So we're like, okay, in two minutes, we're going to eat. So he's looking at it, looking at us, looking at- And he reaches over. I swore to God. He reaches over and turns the knob till it rings. And then he smiles like, it's time to eat. Like, wow, he figured that out. He figured out how to make it go faster. So he's time to eat. It's interesting how quick they can actually start to learn even before they can speak themselves. Katrina was starting to get concerned, right? We're at two years and Max really isn't speaking. Like he says, daddy. And he, wow, he has a few things he's starting to- But not very many. Typically, they say about now he can even put two words together. And so he's kind of behind on that. And of course, like every parent I'm sure can relate is like, anything that your kid is not right on pace for you instantly start freaking out and stuff like that. It's actually not that big of a deal. It's not. In fact, Katrina spoke with a speech therapist and was asking a bunch of questions. And he really understands. Like he's actually really smart. She's like, oh my God, he can tell the difference between that color and that color. And you can tell him to go get this and hand you that. And he does all this. She's like, oh, he's gonna be just fine. He goes, she goes, just some kids are, they wait. And she goes, what it's gonna be like for your son probably is it'll go from like, you guys never hear him. And then all of a sudden it'll go real fast. Because he understands everything, he just hasn't figured out how to do it. I have a friend's kid who was like that, took forever and then just tons of words. He totally, I could tell him so many things. Oh, he fully understands. You talk to him like he's a lot older. Yeah, so I think that's really interesting. So I wanted to bring up a recent study that came out that was absolutely fascinating on exercise versus counseling or therapy for well-being for mental health, for anxiety, that kind of stuff. Yeah, I read that same study. Okay, so they took a lot of women. I think it was like over 100 women and they divided them into two groups. And half of them, they put them in like group therapy counseling. Then the other half just exercised on a consistent, regular basis. Exercise outperformed counseling in terms of improving mental well-being. Over how long again? It was a 16 weeks course. Over 16, so four months. Over a four month period, exercise outperformed group therapy. Now, if you had to unpack that. Which is really interesting. It's really, I mean, we kind of know this, but to see a study that actually says it outperforms therapy, I would think I would be impressed if it was rivaling. Yeah, which doesn't mean get rid of the therapy or like, you know, obviously that's an integral part of the whole thing. But like to just focus on your body and be physically active. And what the kind of response you get mentally from that was very... Right, this by no means is this discredit thing. Yeah, no, in fact, it all it does is highlight how incredible, how powerful weight training. Now, what I want to hear from you guys is if you had to unpack it, like, what are the attributes that contribute to better well-being? That much that a trained psychologist or therapist that has tremendous value in helping you through these, work through these things, actually doesn't outperform just somebody who follows a weight training program for 16 weeks. To be clear, a perfect scenario would be to do both, right? And I've worked with lots of clients that have done both and it's extremely effective and powerful. But here's why I think in this case, and I'm very careful to how I word this, because previous studies have shown that for mild to moderate forms of depression, for example, which is the most common form of depression, that exercise is as good in the moderate length term and then probably better long term than antidepressants for helping with depression. Now, why would that be? Well, okay, the obvious is the physical benefit, right? So you're healthier, you feel better, hormones regulate, all these things affect your mood, how you feel, your inflammation is lower, but there's a very strong mental effect as well, because people don't realize this, but when you exercise and you do it consistently, especially if you do it for the right reasons, it's one of the best personal self-growth techniques you could ever go into. So people, when they think of personal growth, they think of like, oh, I'm gonna sign up for a course or I'm gonna go to one of those. I'm gonna learn a language. Yeah, one of those Robbins weekends. Tony Robbins weekends. But exercise does this very, very well because the process of exercising is you challenge yourself, you see that, oh, I need to practice something over and over to get good at it, the feeling of accomplishment, the feeling of overcoming obstacles, the accepting what you can't do, that's a big one. I accept the fact that I can't run as fast as other people, that's okay. You go through this whole process of long-term exercise and all these things are personal growth methods, and so that's what you get with exercise. It's not just about the physical health that you get which plays a big role, it's all the things you learn through doing it, especially if you go into it the right way. If you're going into it for the wrong reasons, it could do the opposite, but you go into it for the right reasons and you come out. It just proves to me how interconnected physical activity is with cognitive activity. Totally, yeah. It also speaks to, I think, I don't know if we did a whole episode on this or I know you went on a rant one time, just talked about all the other benefits or like I think we did, we did a single episode where it was like all the unknown benefits of weight training or they're like, I forget what the title was, Doug, and probably look it up, but it was, that was literally it was we went into all the things that you just wouldn't think about. Everybody knows gaining muscle, losing body fat, getting stronger, those are all the- Dude, that's why it's so effective because you go into it, not expecting personal growth. So you go into it and you go, I just want to get in better shape and then you stay consistent. But then what you get is like, oh, actually what I got out of this that's even more valuable is I accept my genetic limitations. I can overcome obstacles. I know practice makes perfect and discipline is important. And the camaraderie you may get- It's hard, it's objective too, right? You see progress objectively and you see this actually happen versus like sometimes it's hard to see that in other aspects of life. That's what I feel like the most you get out of is that you really start to figure out what you put in is what you get out, right? Or what you get out is what you put in. And think about a lesson that is- That's what I mean for life is like, because it's not easy and it's slow, it's a slow process and it's hard and you have disadvantage- And it's filled with failures and challenges. But, oh my God, when I stick this out and I stay consistent with it, I do feel the benefits. I do get some payback from it. It's incredibly empowering. So I would think- And when you talk about depression or mild depression, you got to think that's got in one of the things is somebody in that state fills powerless and fills weak and incapable of doing things. And I think just going through a 16-week program has got to overcome those major ones. It may redirect a lot of the chatter in your mind too and fueling that into physical pursuit. So it's like sometimes it allows you to kind of break that perpetual loop that you get stuck. Yeah, well, look at this. This is a study that Doug just brought up showing that aside from the traditional real life improvements you get from being healthy, after two months of regular exercise, the people in the study also perform better on laboratory tests of self-control. So you learn so many skills through this pursuit of fitness that help you and is self-control a valuable lesson in modern society? I think that's the most important lesson because we live in a society of so much abundance that you could literally go down so many dark paths of indulgence and pretty much anything you want, food being the most common. Those problems revolve around indulgencies. We also talk about the feedback loop from posture too. I mean, think about that. It's always really obvious to us when we meet a client and I could just tell they battle depression by how they walk up to me to... You could see it. Yeah, you could see the way they walk, the way they hold their head, the way their shoulders are slouched forward. Like, it's really, really obvious. And man, you get that person working out for 16 weeks. Haunting feedback loop. Chest is up, shoulders are back, head is out, and that feedback, it just speaks to us. Speaking of feeling better and mental health, I gave you... I love that Adam does this, by the way. He never questions me. A lot of trust. I just throw him a supplement. He does some of the things. No, so it's a new sponsor that we're working with. Not a new one that we know of. In fact, I've been taking live-on supplements now for a long time. They give us free stuff all the time, but now we're going to be working with them. And so I threw you acetyl-l-carnitine. Yeah, and 1,000 milligrams of essential phospholipids. Yeah, so they put it together in a delivery system that really increases the absorption. And they have lots of different products, glutathione, B-complexes. And it's super concentrated form. I remember you giving this to me. Oh, yeah, it's almost like they do it medically. This is... The delivery is very important. So anyway, acetyl-l-carnitine has been shown to improve mental states of well-being in older individuals. Now, the reason why I take it is because l-carnitine, especially if you take it in a form that's absorbed properly, proves or increases, I should say, androgen receptor density. Okay, so what is that? The androgen receptors are what testosterone attached to. If you have more of these receptors, your normal levels of testosterone now become much more effective. In fact, studies show that it's androgen receptor density that better predicts how much muscle and strength you'll gain, not testosterone levels. Now, why would somebody like myself use their product? Because here's the thing, being truthful, like it tastes terrible. It really does. There's no flavoring. The people who use this, all the people I know that use this product, which by the way, I know quite a few people, they're all the nerdy science guys like yourself that I know that swear by this product, because you see l-carnitine in pre-workout mixes all the time and post-workout shake stuff all the time, yet I know that they are like the leaders. I know that they're partnered up with some medical companies and stuff like that, that I know they're super reputable, but what is it about theirs that they can just say, we're not going to, our focus is not going to be on wrapping it with sugar and making it taste good and trying to oversell it. It's just all of the delivery. One of the big problems with taking anything orally is that, let's say you take 1,000 milligrams of something, you may only get 10% of it, right? Or sometimes less. For example, in the case of magnesium, certain forms of magnesium is just at acts like a laxative. You're not going to get absorbed any bit. They have created a delivery system that has been shown medically to dramatically improve absorption and utilization. So what you find when you take it, it's like in a gel. Yeah. And these phospholipids actually improve the absorption of the acetyl l-carnacea. So you'll get a higher amount of the total amount that's in the package. And I notice a difference. This is why you see me squirting these in my mouth more than other products that are the same. So it's an interesting effect on androgen receptors. And now there's studies that show now that they compare men with different testosterone levels and they compare how they adapt to exercise. Do they build more muscle because they have more testosterone than this guy over here? And they found that wasn't really a big difference. But then they looked at androgen receptor density. That's what predicted. That's what predicted the muscle growth. Now you were giving us a pair of these for a long time. It was well before we started even talking to them or working with them. And I don't remember what the two used. I was giving you this and glutathione. Okay. Now glutathione has got a strong flavor. Very, very strong flavor. That's the one that you're like, oh my God. That's rough. But glutathione. It tastes like farts. Glutathione is such. Just want to put it out there for the audience. This shit's the real deal. It's effective. And I know you will sell the science on how amazing the product is all day long. But if you're somebody who's like, oh, I'm going to try it. I bet it tastes hella good. This is not magic spoon. This is not fucking that. This is not something that's a taste bubble gum flavored. Like you were literally taking it because it's supposed to be the best of the best of this product. Yes. So glutathione is a very, very strong antioxidant in the body. Very good for the liver and the immune system. In fact, there's studies now that are being done on glutathione and COVID. And it's effect on getting people to heal from it. Oh, God, would you get our freaking episode flag? I know. There's studies, I said. I didn't make a claim. Look up the studies yourself. And here's the warning. Yeah, boom, right there. Here's another cool study. They just did a study on theanine, the amino acid that I talk about to take with caffeine, and THC. So THC obviously being the active, the psychoactive effect. Does it have a similar effect like with caffeine? No, what it does is it protects against the negatives of THC. So THC has some negative effects on the brain, especially if you take it consistently. And what you notice from that is worst short-term memory, word recall. Taking theanine with it seems to have a very powerful protective effect. Now, is that the same as or different mechanism as what happens when you do the one-to-one ratio with CBD? Because I know we've talked about this before. CBD is different. It does it through different. So if you want the perfect storm, I would go theanine, CBD, then THC, all together. And it should protect against those potential negative effects that THC can produce when you do it on a consistent basis. Yeah, you've already, because you've taught me that, and I did notice a difference of that, by the way, when I started. You don't get the memory effects. Like if I go too much THC for too long, I notice I'm not as sharp, especially on the podcast. What I would do is I would, I'd start it after we're talking to you about it, is I would buy cannabis that was a one-to-one ratio. And if I didn't have that, because many times I'll buy something that's very high THC, low CBD, then I would just take CBD capsules or like NED product with it to try and kind of level it out. And I did notice a difference with that. So you're saying you could add this on top of that too. Totally, totally. So I'm going to try it. I'm going to see what I noticed. But the study was actually pretty interesting. And I think this is going to be a big market because cannabis consumption is going, is it's becoming legalized. It's going up through the roof. And I predict that you're going to see these products that are effective to be used in conjunction with cannabis to explode because of their use. Speaking of your predictions, it seems that I'm going to pump your tires again on this topic. We've talked about this and I've already admitted that you were right or more right, I think, than I was in this situation. That was the streaming. So I saw an article come out about Netflix and Grammys. And they, I don't know if you guys knew this or not. They were like dominating the Grammys. Grammys or Emmys? Oh, I don't know. Grammys for music. Emmys is for like TV. Yes, obviously. One of those, one of those awards. Obviously, the Emmys. Isn't that, I wrote Grand Oscars. So terrible. One of those, those awards. Doug's all into it, so he knows. I know, all over me on that. Who's going to get it? Yeah, so they were dominating that. I don't know how many. I think for like the last three years, they had like, they were like mopping up on all the awards or whatever. And that has now flipped to like a 60-40 split. And it's because HBO Max and Apple and like all these other streaming services now that are really starting to push their content. Netflix was so far ahead, they were kind of dominating that space. And it is starting to shape up as a very a la carte. And it will, maybe there will be room for several of these competitors to live amongst each other. And that you won't see one or two of them gobble up all the small guys. There's enough people consuming enough content where you can do very well, you know, catering to a particular. It's funny, we were, when we were in Kauai, I had forgot at one point we were driving, we had a rental car and I forgot my attachment, you know, the each, whatever attachment for my phone into the car. Yeah. So I had to listen to the radio. So we're listening to the radio and commercials come on, right? And I haven't listened to the radio in a long time. There's like five minutes of commercials and the commercials are these generic companies, they're trying to blast out. They don't really know who they're targeting. And they know that they have pop music. So they know that a certain kind of person, listen. Now the commercials, first of all, on streaming services, first of all, shorter. I don't, you know, you never watch five minutes of commercials on YouTube, but they're very targeted. So even though they're shorter, they're much more effective because they're so specific and targeted. So this is what's going to end up happening. You're going to have so many more choices. Already we do, but you have even more choices for content and movies and streaming because now they can really narrow down who they're talking to. Dude, speaking of that, Doug, did you, I know you are listening to Mark Randolph's That Will Never Work podcast. Yes. Are you current on all of them? Did you listen to all of them? I've probably listened to half of them. Did you listen to the one about the guy who has a business that he works with all the biggest gaming companies in the world and they are working on engineering the psychology of the player? That's, they give them that feedback. So they have been able to figure out, this guy's business, brilliant, like business for these reasons, for advertising reasons in the future. So that is they are able to really, I guess, cattle or categorize. I don't know how you want to be a profile, somebody by their gaming behaviors and habits. Wow. Does a guy in Call of Duty go and hide for three hours and not get in the middle of the action? Yeah. Does a guy choose a sniper weapon all the time over like a hand pistol? Wow. Does, yeah. And like, what does that say about that person? Right. So they can engineer it to kind of cater to these. So they can then give the feedback to someone like Epic Games and say, oh, 30% of your gamers are this type of a profile. And then you can now match it with advertising, like, oh, these people that hide away and do these things will like, how freaking crazy is that? That's how, that's how specific. I mean, I know, like to your point, when I watch YouTube now, I'll get caught sometimes watching a commercial because that first 15-second hook is something that I'm interested in. And it's just like, oh, that was compelling. I'm gonna say, let it roll. And I'll watch the commercial. Yeah, because they know your profile. Yeah, they know the stuff that I'm into. So they can advertise less and you get a free service, but it's more effective for them. It's a win, win, win for everybody. Yeah. And so you're moving this way and gaming on another level with being able to break down the psychology of the gamer who's playing the game. Now, speaking of awesome products, we're gonna mention another one of our sponsors. You know, my brother has been using the Juve Lite now for a little while and he's been very, very consistent. And I could clearly, now he's my brother, so it's like, am I gonna tell him? You saw a little bit of like hair growth? So he was using it on his head for a while and he's getting some hair. He's the one in the family, between the two of us, he's most likely to go completely bald here in the next five years or whatever. But he was using it on his head, definitely worked, definitely was regrowing hair. Now he's been using it on his face and I've been seeing him in pictures because we talk, you know, through text or we'll do FaceTime. He just had a baby right now, so we did a lot of FaceTime. And, you know, it's my brother, so I don't know how your relationship is with your brother, but sometimes I want to tell him that and your skin looks good. I'm like, that's my brother, I don't have a fucking face. But dude, I've been looking, and so I told him, I'm like, are you using a filter? It functions you, right? Yeah, I'm like, are you using a filter on your face? He goes, no, why? I'm like, never mind. Because literally, I can see in his face, his skin is looking. So cool, thank you. Yeah, dude, yeah, it's looking. So I asked him, like, have you been using, because I gave him one. I had an extra when I gave him one. Have you been using the juve light on your face a lot? And he goes, oh yeah, every morning, so he's a stockbroker. So he'll wake up early in the morning and he'll check his charts and he's got graphs and all sort of weird shit. It's funny, it looks like The Matrix when he sends me stuff. He's like, dude, check this out. I'm like, can you explain it to me? I don't know what this says. But anyway, when he's checking them, he has the lights on, one on his head, one on his face, and he does it every single morning. I don't know if this is a stupid question up, but can that actually reset your circadian rhythm? Like, let's say you're somebody like him who gets up really early, goes straight to the computer, doesn't go outside. Is that a, you know, obviously nothing beats going outside and being in the sun. But if it was, is that the, like how we talk about organizing green juice, nothing beats going and getting the real thing and eating your vegetables, okay, and we'll always stand by that. But if you're not eating them or you don't have access or you're on the go, then supplementing with something like that is the next ideal situation. Would you say that would be the same thing with like the Jew flight? If I'm not going to get out in the sun, I didn't get out early this morning, I'm right on my computer working right away. So like as a supplement. Yeah. That's a good question. I would assume so, but I don't know the answer to that. That's a really, really good question. Yeah, anyway, it works indoors for a long time. I would assume that's pretty beneficial for them. I would too. I was looking for Sal and maybe having, I mean, I know I didn't set him up and tell him ahead of time, but I would like to know the science behind that because I know that a lot of the benefits from the Jew of light come from the same benefits that you get from the sun. Well, I tell you what, if there's a study that exists, it's on the Jew of website and maybe Andrew can... Yeah, they're really good about it. Yeah, maybe Andrew can, if it's there, it'll pop up here on the video. Okay, yeah, that's a really good idea. Hey, you want to know a funny brother story? Yeah. So Justin's brother comes into the studio yesterday. Oh, yeah, and he asks if I'm Sal. What? And... No, because you and I look so much alike. So there's been 1,600 episodes and his brother hasn't listened to a single one. Not even one. Wow. He was in here doing work with you and your brother has never listened to one episode. He has no idea who we are. He always complimented, but the thing is he's very congratulatory and he loves to see that we're successful and whatnot. Fuck that. But I just feel like... I feel you, dude. I just feel like... What you're saying when I think of my head. I just feel like I would be so different. Like my sister, especially the level that we've reached, I'm sorry, but I get it if it's like... There's a competitive element, 100%. Listen, my brother-in-law, okay? My brother-in-law is on episode 23 of his podcast. My best friend has got a golf one that he does. I've listened to almost all of my brother-in-laws, at least half, if not three-quarters of my buddies. I guarantee my day is as... You'd be a great brother, Adam. I'm not looking for you to pump. My point is that I'm just curious and I want to see them do well. And I also want to be able to give them any feedback I can to help them. It's more common in Justin's scenario than not. Oh, I know, because I have family and friends the same way. Yeah, what's the saying? It's the hardest... It can never be a profit in your own town or whatever. Is that what it is? Well, I mean, it took... It's hard to be a profit in your own town. Look how long it took for my wife to listen. You know, so it's just one of those things, dude. It doesn't even bother me, because that's how it's always been with everything I've done. I put my head down and I'm going my own direction. So it's like, either pay attention or you know, it really doesn't bother me. Well, now I do understand the people, which I do have some friends that did this, and I do not blame them, because I sent over to you guys last night. I was on YouTube, I was going down a rabbit hole, and for some reason, our very first episode with Craig Capurso at my mother-in-law's house, right? The very, very first one we ever recorded popped up, and I clicked on it and watched like the first eight minutes of it. Testosterone levels in men has been dropping consistently across all age groups since the 1950s. And in fact, just from 1987 till today, we've noticed a almost 12% or 15% decrease in testosterone levels in men. Oh my God, is it bad? I mean it is, and so if you listen to us early on and you're a family friend or whatever like that, and you're just, because I've had people tell me, yeah, I've heard some, yeah, it's gay, good job, but not really my thing, totally get that. Totally get the way we were presenting information early on. But I will say, I mean, you came out, so that episode one, you were talking about the decline of testosterone in our society. I introduced to the audience BFR training, it was before anyone had done it yet, and you asked me about it, and we broke down BFR training. And there wasn't enough research behind it yet for me to attend, and it sounds stupid, it sounds really ridiculous when you think about it, and it's kind of almost contradicting to how we would train. So I don't need to contradict you item in a minute. Yeah, so anyways. So I guess there are a little bit of nuggets that had to been in there that people found value of. We sucked less than other people. At the time, seven years ago, right? On the scale of suck, yeah. I don't know why my default, when I get nervous, was boobies and sexual things, and I mean, that, I mean. Are you wild? I mean, we were trying to figure it out. I don't think I could have found my douchey on there. Yeah, great. Now people are going to try and find that. No, you can, I think it's better. I think only our private forum has actually seen that video. We haven't shared anybody else. Thank God. Hey, real quick, thanks for listening to the podcast. Go check out LMNT products. So this is at drinkLMNT.com forward slash mind pump. This is electrolytes done right. So it's got the right amount of sodium to fuel your workouts, fuel your pumps, and your energy. So it's not just sprinkled in there. It's the right dose. Ladies and gentlemen, this stuff actually works. My pumps are incredible when I use LMNT during my workouts. Now if you go to that site, drinkLMNT.com forward slash mind pump, you will get free sample packs. All you have to do is pay for shipping. All right. Enjoy the rest of this podcast. Our first caller is Tom from New Jersey. Hey, what's up, Tom? How can we help you? Hey, what's going on guys? Long short of it is, I lost over 150 pounds naturally, much more 20, down to the 270s. Kept it off over the course of three years, was with the trainer till about six months ago. Got certified myself really trying to take it to the next level. Big thing is, I've kind of plateaued, and I just really want to keep burning, really want to put on some more mass. It's tough with the all natural thing, but I want to see what you guys say about possibly taking it to the next level, what program I can maybe go on, and you know, any hurdles you could help me face. I have some questions around the cut, okay? Yeah, well, first off, I want to commend you on your Adam haircut. That's a really nice, yeah, he's got the style going on. Has he got my look or what? Oh, he's got your look. He must be handsome as fuck, then. It's super handsome. Aerodynamic. No, so yeah, the questions I have, I kind of want to know how you got down, right? So did you do it mostly through weight training and diet? Did you utilize a lot of cardio? Do you have any idea of where your calorie intake is right now? And then the last question is, have you been on a bulk yet? Okay. It started through light training. I was an athlete back in high school and out into my mid-20s until I changed. So I had knowledge of that. I incorporated light training again. I have a very bad knee, I have no cartilage left in it, so I'm working with that. But it was mainly strength training and very light cardio. And then it got to the point where I built up from two days a week to three days a week to five to six days a week. I have not gone on a bulk. I'm very scared about putting anything on. It's trying to break that mindset. And the other thing is I'm probably around 3400 calories right now. Okay. So this is a, we're in a good place, bro. 3400 calories, lost that much weight, and you haven't done a bulk yet. And that is going to be, this conversation for my, sure from all three guys are going to be the same thing as far as the mindset is going to be the greatest hurdle that we have right now, which is, and I totally get this because I've trained many clients in a very, very similar situation as yourself. And I do know that, you know, when you're coming from there, just the thought of, oh my God, what if I start a bulk and I see the scale go up 10 pounds or even 15 pounds or anywhere in that direction after all this hard work. But the truth is that's why you've plateaued right now. You've plateaued right now because your body is completely adapted to the caloric intake, the activity level that you're doing. Your best bet right now is let's put on some muscle. And in order to put on more muscle than you already have done and already have right now, we are going to require increasing our caloric intake and then putting you on a muscle building type of program. I would recommend, based off of listening to what you're kind of doing right now, probably a MAPS anabolic type of program. That's the direction I would go. Curious to hear what the guys would say, but I'm sure they're going to say the same thing as far as the mental hurdle. Yeah, I agree 100%. I think MAPS anabolic, three foundational workouts a week because you have the choice in the program to do two or three. I would say do three, make sure you do your three trigger sessions on all of your off days. And then what I would add to that, because you mentioned your knee, is I would add MAPS Prime Pro to work on hip ankle and foot mobility to take pressure off the knee. Be very careful with your lower body exercises. Don't worry so much about going real heavy, work within your limits. But you're in a really good position. I mean, based off of what you said, you lost weight the right way. And your 3400 calories, you're still at a pretty good number. You're crushing. Now a bulk is just a little bit more than that. You don't got to do an aggressive bulk. In fact, I would recommend against doing an aggressive bulk, especially if in the past your tendency was to overeat. So all you got, I would add 300 calories, 400 calories max, probably around 300. And just let your body slowly get stronger, build some muscle. Do it over the course of the MAPS anabolic program, about three months. Keep it kind of slow. You can throw in a couple days, a week of low calories if you feel like you're putting on body fat. And then just do that and then see where you're at at the end of that. I think you'd be surprised how much body fat you may actually lose, believe it or not, by following that kind of a protocol. I also, we definitely want to, even though our ultimate goal probably is to get down to a lower body fat percentage and continue to lean out. Like you said, the goal though now mentally is to focus on strength. Because what you don't want to do is to take the advice we said and you go, okay, guys said add 300, 400 calories a day. I'm doing that. And the thing you're watching is the scale. You got to just, that needs to go to the side for a while. Don't worry about your exact weight right now. Eat like Sal saying 300 to 400 extra calories a day, follow MAPS anabolic three times a week. That doesn't mean that the other, because you've worked up to five, five to six days a week of activity, still go for a walk, still do things. And you get the trigger sessions. Yeah, trigger sessions and still do like a mobility from Prime Pro. So that's what I would do to supplement maybe the, all the activity that you're doing currently now, since we're telling you to reduce to three days a week of full body routine, but still do activities, still work on mobility, still do the trigger sessions on the off day. So you're still going to be moving around, doing stuff five to six days a week, just training. And then the mentality is around building strength. So let that be your guide on, am I doing a good job? Am I getting stronger week over week following the program? And then we can assess at the end of it where you're at. Yeah, strength is your gauge. How like two energy levels. So like, I don't know how energetic you feel right now at what 3400 calories, but you know, that's something to really pay attention to and just gradually increase that based on like how that's going to help aid you in your, you know, performance in the gym. Very much of a strength focus there in the gym. Yeah, you know, Tom, I had a client, you remind me a lot of a person I trained a long time ago. And we did exactly what we're talking about. And he was really good at following, you know, what I said to a T and it was remarkable. At the end of three months, we gained muscle and actually his body fat percentage went down a little bit. Now I think what happened is his body fat, total weight didn't change. But because he gained lean body mass, his overall body fat weight became a smaller percentage of his body weight, if that makes any sense. So we actually saw his muscle go up and his body fat percentage go down. Then when we went to start to cut, it was like his body responded again. There's this theory. I remember Jason Phillips and I talked about this on a previous old podcast where we, we think and other people have talked about this where the central nervous system kind of has this memory of, you know, how you lived before, what you did before. And so it's a little bit more resistant. It's a little bit more resistant to getting lean or, you know, getting yourself to where you want to go. So you kind of have to let your body know it's okay. A surplus, a calorie surplus in your situation, especially when you're sending the signal to build, may do that. And it may take a few months, but I think you'll be happy with the results. Do you have MAPS anabolic and MAPS Prime Pro, by the way? No, no, I was waiting to see what you guys would say before I made any moves. Okay, cool. Well, we're going to give them to you. So you got those for us. Thank you guys. Yeah. So you start off with what we're giving you right now. That should take care of you for the next three months. If we don't touch bases between now and then, the ideal order for someone like you is MAPS anabolic, MAPS performance, then MAPS aesthetic. We wrote them in that order to help first build the metabolism, build a strength base, then move into kind of performance-based stuff, and then eventually into aesthetic. So if you do not make contact with any of us between now and the end of three months, that would be the next progression for you. But I would love to hear back from you. I'd love to hear how you're doing after a month or two and stay strong. The mental game is going to be everything for you. Yeah, figure out your rituals in terms of protecting that ankle or that knee. Excuse me. Work on the ankle, work on the hips, and really dial that in. It's going to help a lot. Awesome. If I could just say to you guys real quick, I appreciate everything you guys do. And especially the other day on one of your podcasts, talk about Sal's awesome video. Awesome, by the way. Thank you. You guys, something that I must respect and appreciate is people like me who are trying to find where they fit in the fitness industry, in the fitness world. By you guys not just selling your bodies and stuff to push stuff and letting the information speak, it really makes it comfortable for people like me in that situation to come on here and talk to you guys about it. So I really appreciate that. And I love that you guys do everything the way you do it. So thank you. Hey, your feedback means a lot. Appreciate it. Thank you, Tom. Thank you, guys. No problem. You know, I had a trainer years ago that I recruited from Foot Locker. So, you know, they sell shoes, right? I was at the mall and this dude is selling me shoes and he's super charismatic, super personable. And we started talking. He asked me what I did. I said, oh, I managed the gym down the street. And he says, oh, I've been working out now for a while. I lost 100 pounds. Now, he probably still needed to lose 30 or 40 pounds, but he'd lost 100 pounds. Very similar story to this guy. And I said, you want to get into fitness? I think you'd make a great trainer. You just got to get certified. Anyway, he ended up working for me, became a trainer, and actually did very well because he'd gone through the journey recently. People connected with him and he made an excellent trainer. I worked with somebody very similar and they just become this evangelist of fitness. And it's just like they did very well in the business. This is one of my favorite clients to help because you literally change this person's life. Somebody who's been walking around at four bills plus for a good amount of their life. It's not like this happened overnight for him. And you drop 150, 200 pounds down on this person and get them excited about the fitness and how... And when they do it the right way like this, he didn't do obsessive amount to cardio and cut down to 1,500 calories. He's in a pretty healthy calorie. And he should be a little bit higher, just so the audience is listening. I think he's 270, right still. So 270 person who's lifting and training five days a week easily could be around 4,400, 5,500 calories in a good place. So he's got plenty of room to still go up and still be in I think a really good place. And that's the goal for me if he was a long-term client is I would say, okay, we're gonna go in and out of this bulking and then back to cutting and then back to bulking until I can move you up to about 4,500, 4,700 calories. That would be the kind of the goal would be to run a bulk for a while, increase those calories, then I'd reduce for a little while, then go back to a bulk. And the ultimate goal is building strength. I don't actually give a shit if the scale doesn't move right now. Like if we hover right around that 270... That's ideal. Yeah, I would like to hover right around that 270, give or take a few pounds and actually get him up to eating 4,500 calories. Because then if I go, okay, now we're at 4,500 calories, we've maintained 270 pounds. What I know for sure has happened is there's been a nice even exchange. You've probably added 5 to 10 pounds of muscle, lost 5 to 10 pounds of fat. So you're a leaner, stronger, faster metabolism version of yourself. Now let's go down to your 3,500 and watch what happens. Yeah, that melts off your body. Yes. Our next caller is Craig from California. Hey, what's up, Craig? How can we help you? Hey gentlemen, how are you guys? It's great to hear you. Good, yeah. Over 20 years ago, I'm 48. Over 20 years ago, I lost over 100 pounds through running, lifting weights, and eating correctly. And then that eating correctly kind of turned more into orthorexa eating pattern. And then I also suffered from body dysmorphia. Now that I'm 48, I kind of want to focus on getting bigger and stronger. Obviously, I have a six-year-old daughter and I need to discourage her suitors by having some size on me. Yeah, go flare that chest. Exactly. And I'd like to look like Sal and a wife beater too, but I know that's impossible. Nobody can attain that. But the two things that hold me back, when I lift heavy, my joints start to hurt. And then my mind will just not let me eat enough calories to put on size. So how would you guys go about attacking those situations? Are you currently following any of the MAPS programs right now? No, I had aesthetics just because I was more into aesthetics. I was thinking about getting strong, but I just haven't got around to pulling the trigger yet. Yeah, what you're asking is a really, really good question. This is quite common. Not specifically what you're saying, but it's quite common for people to fear going in one direction or another. The person that was always skinny at one point may fear trying to get leaner, and then vice versa, the person that dealt with maybe being overweight, having trouble with trying to bulk or build muscle. Orthorexia, by the way, or orthorexic type eating for the listener is this obsession with healthy eating. So it's a dysfunctional form of eating, but rather than restricting calories too much like you would find with maybe anorexia or reverse anorexia, which is always stuffing yourself. Extremely prevalent in the bodybuilding. Yes, it's like everything has to be super healthy, structured, and perfect. And it can cause a lot of stress and it can make eating a chore or stress on the person's psyche. And it is quite common. So here's how I always tackle this with clients is I take the focus entirely off of aesthetics. I take the focus entirely off of the scale. So what I would say to you is I would take your scale and I would throw it in the closet or throw it away or put it in the garage. Don't weigh yourself at all. Also, don't flex in the mirror or study your body in the mirror. It's okay to look at yourself, of course, but try to avoid analyzing yourself in your body and the way it looks. First off, the way you perceive yourself can be a total lie as evidenced by the times that I'm sure you've looked at pictures of yourself and said, wow, I look pretty good. But I remember at the time I felt like I looked really bad. This happens to a lot of us. So I would avoid those things and focus entirely on performance, strength, stamina, mobility. Now, the second part of your question was the joint pain. When I lift heavy, my joints start to hurt. You can create more tension without adding weight on the body. So going heavy doesn't necessarily mean adding weight to the bar. It could mean slowing down. It could mean creating more intrinsic tension on the body. If I want to just push heavy weight, for example, and let's say I'm doing an inclined dumbbell press, I might grab the 100-pound dumbbells and try to push them hard. I could get an equally challenging workout with 50-pound dumbbells if I try to make it harder myself intrinsically by slowing down, focusing on the squeeze. And literally the goal is, can I make this 50 pounds feel like 100 pounds? That's what I would recommend to someone like you. Rather than trying to add weight to the bar, can you make the weight feel heavier with your technique, form, and concentration? Your body doesn't really know the difference. Let's get into programming. I mean, what are you leaning towards with him? I mean, the first thing that comes to mind for me would be anabolic. I asked a question, too, about if you were following one currently, because typically when my joints start talking to me, it's when I'm actually not doing what I should be doing. It's when I'm overreaching and I'm lifting too heavy too often, and my programming is off, which even as long as we've been doing this, all of us have still a tendency to do this. So I think following something like a MAPS anabolic protocol is ideal for you. The other program I could be convinced potentially by the other two guys to go is Power Lift. Yeah. I actually think because... That's kind of the direction I was going, but Sal brings up a point about joint pain. And that was something where I was like, okay, well, maybe even performance, because it's not specifically focused on hypertrophy and really physique-type-driven aesthetic focus. So it's very much driven towards your movement quality, your overall strength, and to its addressing joint issues, too, at the same time with the mobility sessions. So I think in my opinion, I think MAPS performance is probably the best because it's going to really shake up your mentality that you've been driving so far. I agree 100%. MAPS performance is perfect. And focus, again, on can I make... If you're in a phase where that's low reps, like phase one and mass performance, for example, rather than as you feel yourself getting stronger thinking, oh, I think I can add 10 pounds, think to yourself, can I make the same reps I did last week feel harder? And how do I do that? Slower, squeeze, concentrate, technique, intrinsic tension. I mean, these are... I tell you what, if you look at some of the most successful bodybuilders who've been training for decades, who compete into their 40s and 50s, what they do is that exactly. They'll use a light weight, but when you watch them work out, like Vince Taylor was really good at this, it was, can I make this weight feel heavier? And it's a very effective technique, especially for longevity. It really reduces the risk of injury. And again, your muscles really don't know the difference. Your body doesn't know the difference if you do it that way. So if we're going to lean towards performance, which I can totally get behind it for the reasons that you guys said, I'm actually even going to, I know we normally would say, oh, focus on strength and get... I'm actually going to say, I wouldn't even worry too much about more weight going on the bar because there's still a technique. Yeah, technique, that program, you're going to do exercises you've probably never done before. And instead of when you feel like you're getting better at it, trying to add weight, I would be very meticulous about my movements. Can I make this even prettier? There's some stability components in there. There's some multi-planar movements in there. So when I'm doing these exercises that are challenging and unique that I've never done them before, and just because I've got a couple of weeks in and I start doing them better, I wouldn't start adding load. I would actually just slow down, like the guy said, and try and make my form perfect. I think that with the mobility sessions in between the foundational days are going to benefit you tremendously. Now, one more thing, Craig, just to help you out with this because I know when you do this process and you say, okay, I'm not going to weigh myself. I'm not going to flex in the mirror. When can I flex in the mirror? When can I check on my aesthetic performance? Do this, right? Follow a map's performance. It'll give you about three months. In that three-month period, do what I'm talking about. At the end of three months, I want you to go ahead and flex, look in the mirror, weigh yourself. And I would bet you money that you'll be surprised at the changes in your aesthetics at the end of three months. But the three-month period at least allow you to break those chains a little bit. Now, when it comes to diet, it's the same thing. I want you to judge your diet based on your performance. So, oh, I'm not feeling as strong. Maybe I need more carbohydrates. Maybe I need more proteins. Or I'm feeling kind of sluggish. Maybe I overate or my digestion's a little off. So look at your food rather than from an aesthetic standpoint. Look at it from a performance standpoint. Oh, I could tell a difference in my performance based on how I ate yesterday or my digestion feels real good or my inflammation. You know, you talk about your joints. This, you know, you would encourage you to eat more well-cooked leafy greens, olive oil, fish. You could also try supplementing with something called bromelain. You could take this a few times a day on an empty stomach. It's a very good natural anti-inflammatory. So give that a shot. But take it on an empty stomach. Otherwise, if you take it with food, it acts more like a digestive enzyme. But give it three months. And even this might make it even more fun for you. Take a picture before of yourself, front, side, back, and then don't do shit in terms of looking at yourself and taking pictures until the end of three months where all you did was focus on performance. And I think you'll be pretty surprised. It's a nice byproduct. By the way, do you have MAPS performance? No, I don't. Okay, we're gonna send, we'll send that over to you. Oh man, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. A thousand times, thank you. No problem, man. Good luck with that. So keep us posted. Okay, take it. Can I take a second to thank you guys? Absolutely. Okay, so we lost our daughter seven years ago, and then my wife was battling cancer, and I found you guys in like 2016. And honestly, going back and listening to every, I've listened to every single episode. That's not hyperbole. I've listened to every single episode because I just needed a distraction from life, and your guys's banter and wit was so, so helpful and getting through a tough time. So, and you guys ruined every other podcast for me, but I can't listen to them now because you guys are so good. But I just want to thank you guys for everything you've done for just me in general. Hey, man, God bless you. I appreciate that. And I'm glad we could, you could find value in our podcast. What a huge compliment, man. Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you guys. I appreciate it. All right, brother. God, bro, today's gonna give me all teary-eyed and emotional today. Jesus, man. I know, you know, it's, I tell you what, fitness, of course, it's a tool like anything. So it's gonna be abused, but when it's used the right way, because it's such a personal growth and present, you know, method of being present, it really can be an effective tool during challenging times. Not that it's a cure for anything, of course, but boy, does it, can it be very useful. So I appreciate him saying that. I mean, I think the reasons why we do what we do is to really help people in real way. So these are the people that, and you know, God gets me all emotional talking to both these back-to-back questions here that we got, because this is who I really feel like we were thinking about when we thought about this podcast, right? When we looked at the landscape on social media and in podcasting, you know, a lot of fitness people were talking to other fitness people or other people that were like them. And there was this huge majority of normalized people that have shit that happens in their life. And you know, their fitness goes to hell for a while because other major things happen and they are just trying to get back to feeling good. And those were the clients that I remember training and helping. And the conversation is so different than what I see all over the place. It's not this shit about, you know, breaking down the latest study on what modality is better or macro counting or the latest and greatest tool. That's all irrelevant. Yeah, it's all irrelevant. And these are the people, man. You help these people out in its life changing. So, man, what a cool person to talk both these back-to-back that we just had have been phenomenal. And you know, talk a little bit about the orthorexia that he mentioned. Like this is really, really common in the bodybuilding space. It's super prevalent in fitness. Yeah, and I didn't know that until I got into it as heavy as I did with the competing. And man, it's these people that we idolize and that are on magazine covers and we look up to and aspire to be like, many people have no idea that, you know, because they're sitting at this in the place of these two people, right? Over 100 pounds overweight, feel terrible for that. And they look at this perfect body and this guy who's got a great hair. And it's, you know, he loves to exercise every day. And they think they got it all together. And what they don't realize is they're broken as fuck too. They're hella broken. But just because they look good on the outside, they're missing out on a lot of life because they can't go fucking two hours without checking themselves in the mirror or weighing their food or figuring out what the next meal is gonna be. It's a facade, right? Yeah, 100%. It's a front. And, you know, we've seen that and that's been our biggest motivation is to really just reconnect with people and show them that, you know, there's a way to do this in a healthy manner and you can still attain a lot of really impressive, you know, goals that you set yourself out towards, but doing it in a healthy way is everything. Our next caller is Taylor from Kansas. Hi, Taylor. How can we help you? Yeah, so I guess in a nutshell, I have been lifting for a while now, have run several of your guys's programs. And I'm getting a lot of like upper back pain, like knots in between my shoulder blades. And so from what I've heard you guys say, I feel like that's like some movement pattern issues. So really my question is like, do you think I should run prime and try to work on like priming before I work out and get those movement patterns better while I'm working out? Or should I run Prime Pro and like correct forward shoulder or whatever it might be that's causing those knots and problems like that? The answer to that is yes. So in other words, do both. That will be your best bet. I would also go light on your pressing exercises, overhead pressing, forward pressing, and I would even go light on your pull down and rowing movement. So in other words, focus really, really heavily on technique, perfect form while you're doing the priming, while you're doing the correctional exercise. It looks like there's a bit of maybe some overcompensation or movement pattern issues. And so these muscles are just tight because they're protecting. You know, oftentimes when we have muscles that are really tight, what it is, it's really a signal from the body because the body's trying to protect something. So it feels unstable or maybe an instability under there. Yeah. And so it's just these muscles are just kind of constantly flexing a little bit in order to protect a potential issue. So in order for them to go away, you're going to have to correct that issue. Now in between, I would recommend either massage or foam rolling of those areas because pressure on tight areas will temporarily get them to relax. It's not a permanent fix, but in combination with what I just said, it's a really, really good combination. Taylor, is it on one side more than the other on your back or is it, you know, right down the middle or on both sides? Where do you feel it mostly? Yeah, mostly on my left side, like under that left shoulder blade. Okay. So what's common when it's on one side or the other like that, and maybe you can video yourself while you're doing some movements like bench pressing or rowing when you are, and see if that left side is the shoulders rolling forward or you're getting kind of like a, like a, Or elevating. Yeah, elevating where it'll kind of come up a little bit more than the right side and or roll forward. That might be what's causing that imbalance back there. And then I believe Kelly Starrett did a really good video on a lacrosse ball like release before you get into lifting when you have this. Have you seen that before Justin? He takes, I think, and maybe Andrew can do a clip of this or maybe we can shoot it ourselves, but he takes like two lacrosse balls, tapes them together, and then he puts them right back there and then you kind of, you take your arm all the way above your head. Similar movement is like what you would be doing for like your wall circles that you teach Justin, like that. Yeah. You do some scapular circles with pressure. Yeah, so you're getting scapular kind of, it's moving abducting, it's elevating all while being, the lacrosse balls are pushing. Think about the function of your scapula too. So you want to kind of take it, you want to elevate it, you want to retract it, you want to depress it, and then you want to bring it forward too. So, just like getting it to articulate through all those different movements, it's going to help a lot. So you can identify kind of where there may be some dysfunction. Another and a good way to test when you're getting good at that is, and Justin, I keep leaning on you for the mobility stuff to remind me the names. It's all good. What is that where someone does like a dead hang and then you do that with your scapula? Hanging scapular circles. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Do we have that? Is that in the program or no? I don't think it is in the program. No, but we've shot videos. Yeah, you might want to do that with a lap pulldown bar because it can be really hard for someone. It's pretty tough. Yeah. No, so that's me, what I'm explaining to her, that should be your goal. Oh, I see. Yeah, so if you can obtain that, so again, maybe I can have, and I'm putting a lot of work on Andrew today, maybe he can find a clip of that and or maybe Justin can do that video, because I don't even think I could do that very well. Well, even just starting by hanging on a bar, too, and then really trying to just connect and sort of like depress those shoulders and then come back up. And so you get a little bit of like retraction and depression, just focusing just on that to get kind of contraction there and response out of your shoulder blades, I think is a good start. So Taylor, if you don't have Prime on Prime Pro, we'll send those to you. And so here's what you're going to do, okay? You're going to prime before your workouts your workouts are going to be lighter and you're going to just be focusing on perfect form. And then on the days in between, you're going to use Prime Pro to work on your shoulder, your shoulder blade, and the thoracic area. So you'll pick like two or three movements and do 10 minutes two or three times a day on the off days and then give yourself some time. In my experience, dysfunction dealing with the scapula can take, it can be hard to correct because you can't see it. It's hard to look at the scapula obviously while you're working it. But be patient, it'll happen if you're consistent. What you got, I mean, I see that she has almost all the other programs. I'm leaning towards performance. Is that where you guys would drive her right now? Oh yeah, mass performance with Prime on Prime Pro would be great. It would be a good combo. That's my favorite. Excellent, excellent. Yeah, and you look like you work out too. I can see it from where I'm sitting over here. So good job selling our programs there. Billboard. Awesome. Thank you, Taylor. Thank you guys so much. No problem. Have a good one. You too. You know it's funny and I didn't want to say this to her somewhat discourager. The hardest imbalances I've ever had to correct in clients have to do with the shoulder blade. Oh yeah. It's like the hardest most, because you can't see it. It's behind you. Yeah, like it just sort of has a mind of its own it feels like because you can't like really connect to it sometimes. Yeah, people just don't have a connection to it anyway. Like a winging, scapular winging. Oh, trying to correct that. Do you think that's because it's an area of your body that there isn't a lot of movement and range of motion? There's a lot of movement as far as how often it does, but as far as the distance it travels, right? Most other joints you can take it through a fuller range of motion when you're talking about moving the scapula. And you're more aware of what's going on because you can see the limbs. Yeah, like I can move my leg and my ankle and my shoulder. I can see what I'm doing, but like try to abduct, depress, elevate, you know, roll forward your scapula. Well, this is also what, remember that the little debate we went back and forth, not that long ago about. Lat spread? Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah, that's why it's so hard. Oh yeah. Because people don't know how to, that's what you're doing when you do a lat spread. So yeah, no, I like maps performance for super common though that you see this. That's why I asked her if it was on left or right. This was an area for me. A lot of times I would, I would roll forward on one side, the side that I, you know, right with and I eat with because everything's forward on that side more, then I would get those knots back there. I also would, another thing you can tell for the men that are listening that may suffer from this also is it's really easy for you to tell a discrepancy and left or right of your pec. So normally one side of the chest will develop more because when you're doing like a bench press, that bad side will roll forward and it gets more shoulder and tricep versus working the pec and you'll have this kind of imbalanced chest. So if you're somebody who's listening and you have an imbalance on your chest like that, meaning one side is bigger than the other, many times this is part of the reason why. Our next caller is Chase from Kansas. Chase, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, guys. So I found you guys recently, I started lifting again after a long hiatus since high school joined for the fitness, stayed for the entertainment. So I appreciate all you guys do. I was an athlete in high school. I played rugby year round, played football, ended up hurting my knees my senior year, kind of kicked me off the athlete stuff. I met a girl in college. We had a kid. I put on a whole lot of sympathy weight during that time. And then I kind of just accepted that I was fat. About two months ago, when I started lifting again, I stepped on the scale. I was about 345. I'm now down to 307 as of this week. But my question is I've heard a lot that it's impossible to build muscle, really when you're in a cut. I was just curious how that works with being obese. I'm eating about 2000 calories a day, aiming for about 200 grams of protein. I just want to do the best that I can to make sure that once I lose all the weight, that I have a strong body underneath. Yeah, no great question, because you're right, you will hear that a lot, that while you're dropping, it's impossible to gain muscle. You're also going to love listening to this episode, because I think this is beginning themed right now. Two questions before you, very, very similar. And I know that advice is going to sound very similar. Yeah, now here's the deal. There's definitely exceptions to that. Now here's the exceptions. When people first start working out, that's the biggest one. Like when I get a new client, or somebody who just kind of started working out, and they start to, they'll start to burn body fat while building muscle. When it starts to get really hard, is if you've been building for a while, and you're hitting that kind of, you're starting to tap up to that limit of how much muscle you can build. And then you're trying to cut, well, in that point, then it becomes very difficult. But if you're just kind of getting the ball rolling, and you're really starting to get into resistance training, you can definitely build muscle while you burn body fat. Now, here's what I would recommend to you, somebody who's eating only 2,000 calories a day, who's already lost weight. Got a bulk. I would go on a very slow or light bulk. I would bump your calories by maybe 300 calories. And I would focus on getting stronger and building muscle. And I would do that for a good two or three months. And here's what you'll probably find at the end of that. What you'll find is that you did build some muscle and some strength, and you'll probably simultaneously burn some body fat. And then, of course, here's the bonus. You'll end up with a faster metabolism. 2,000 calories for a guy your size is very low. I'd like to see your calories well over 3,000 before you really try to burn the rest of that body fat off. And the biggest challenge here is going to be the mental challenge. It is going to be, oh my God, my goal is to lean out, lose weight, and these guys are telling me to add calories to my weight. So do not let the scale fuck with your head. I mean, normally the advice we give it, throw the scale away or put it away for months, focus on building strength, focus on the movement and the exercises in the program, but do not get hung up on the scale. And you're going to probably see it potentially go up a couple of times. That's okay though. I mean, as long as we kind of hover around closely to the weight where you're at right now. Now, obviously, if I saw you adding 10 pounds a week, I would need to adjust something, but that's not going to happen from a 300 calorie surplus. Not even a 500 calorie surplus a day is going to put on a ton of weight on you. And in a perfect world, you actually kind of hover around the weight that you are, but you see yourself getting stronger in the gym and you're able to maintain that calorie intake without really going up. So if you are hanging around the same weight, but yet eating 300 to 400 more calories every day, then I know good things are happening. I know that your body is actually starting to build muscle, and it may be potentially losing body fat at the same time. And so we are putting you in a much better position. Now, Sal recommended to do that for a couple of months and cut. I may run like a three to four week calorie surplus and then a couple of days in the deficit and then go back to three weeks or so in a surplus, then do a two to three day calorie deficit. And so breaking up the bulk every couple of weeks, for a few reasons, just for sanity, kind of reset a little bit, see how you feel, see what happens with energy strength. But I would do that over the course of a program and then kind of get back with us and let us know where you're going. Are you following any MAPS programs right now? So I'm not. I've looked at anabolic to build weight. Right now I'm running five, three, one. I was kind of trying to make sure I stuck with it this time because I've tried multiple times in the past, but anabolic is kind of the one I was looking at. What would you guys recommend there? MAPS anabolic. I would do MAPS anabolic. So pick the option where you do three foundational workouts a week and then do the trigger sessions. I cannot stress enough how effective the trigger sessions are as a turbo for muscle building. Especially with the calorie surplus. Absolutely. And so you're going to do two or three of those a day on the off days with bands. You're just trying to get a pump. It's low intensity. And do that consistently. It's a three month program, so it'll be perfect for what we're talking about. And if you don't have MAPS anabolic, we'll send that right over to you. Awesome. I appreciate that, guys. No problem, man. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, thank you, guys. Definitely a theme shaping up today. Whether that was intentional by Jerry or not, but great questions. Interesting too. Everyone's kind of a little bit different place that they're at, but all very similar advice. Like he's all the way down to 2,000 calories. Well, I know I was wanting to get into that, but I didn't get a chance. But in terms of being able to find maintenance and obviously the goal is to lose weight. So a lot of times clients will just keep going and keep scaling it down, bringing those calories down. But did we ever stop and find where that meets where you're at in terms of body weight and what you're doing in the gym and find that. So then you can scale up your 300 increments or gradually bring that surplus back. For people that are in this place, I want to make this clear. And I think every time I've said this, I get pushed back or I get people go, what? But wrap your brain around this. We were training, if I was coaching you and training you and 30 days go by and situation one with you is we've lost 10 pounds after those 30 days. That's situation one. Situation two is you've gained two pounds of weight, but you're eating four or 500 more calories a day. As a coach, I want situation two. I'm actually disappointed in you situation one, which sounds absurd for somebody who has tons of weight they want to lose. Totally counter. Totally counter. And the opposite of what most clients would think. They would think, oh, 10 pounds I lost this month, we're doing great. No, if we're at 2000 calories and you're dropping like that still, my goal is to get your metabolism built up right now. Because if we want to lose this weight and keep it off forever, I know that a guy this size is not going to be able to eat 2000 calories for the rest of his life. It's just not sustainable. And so we need to get that. Not only do we need to address that first, but it's also going to make this whole process easier. If we can get the metabolism up by increasing the calories, that's right. And building muscle. It's going to be way easier to lose that total goal, but you have to first switch the mentality to that. 100%. Look, we do not have a weight loss problem. That's not the issue. Millions of people lose weight every single year. That's not the problem. The problem is sustainability, keeping the weight off. There's like a 90% plus fail rate with that. So if you don't think sustainability, you're giving yourself 90 plus percent odds of failing. So you have to approach this from a sustainability mindset. And when you do it in a sustainable way, your success rate goes through the roof. So unless you're looking to lose weight and gain it back and then some and end up with a slower metabolism, you got to do it the right way. And that's the way that we're explaining right now. Look, if you like Mind Pump, if you like our information, you got to head over to mindpumpfree.com. We have so many free guides that can help you develop your body, burn body fat, and develop sustainable habits to give you a sustainable, good-looking, awesome, healthy physique. You can also find all of us on Instagram. So you can find Justin at Mind Pump, Justin, me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump, Adam. If food rules you in many different ways, breaking that chain can make you feel empowered. Now here's the dark side of that, right? What drives a lot of people to do this is the sense of control. In fact, they'll do it worse when the life around them is very stressful and things seem to be falling apart. That's when they're most strict with that type of eating because it's