 Hey, looks like I am live. Awesome. Hey guys, if you see me live on both LinkedIn and YouTube, please comment on the chat. This is Dr. Nian City. We're getting started with our free live training in a minute. Let me play some countdown music. I'm very excited, actually the technology actually working very well today. I'm very, very happy. So we have one minute to get started. All right. Hey guys, this is Dr. Nian City. If you are here with us, please comment on the chat. What's your name? Where are you from? And do you have an interview coming up and comment on the chat? I'd love to learn about your background. Awesome. So let's see who else is here with us at the same time. Let me also make sure we have everything ready. Interesting. So I'm just getting all the technology set up ready. Awesome. Okay, great. Cool. All right. So let's see who is here with us. Comment on the chat. What's your name? Where are you from? And do you have an interview coming up or not? Or you can say you're trying to learn the interview to tell me where you are in your cloud management journey. Let's say who else is here? And Rappul, how are you? I see so you are, wow, so many different degrees. You got like PMP and also like certification in cloud management, I think the safe stands for agile. Like certified agile, professional, I think safe means that. Welcome, welcome. Moscow, wow. PC, you are at Alina, Moscow. Wow, welcome, welcome. We have very, very global audience. This is amazing. Awesome. And doing well senior business analysts. Hello Rappul, so agile. Yes, that's what I guess. Yeah, like agile certification. Welcome, welcome. Okay, great. So let's get started with today's free coaching. And here is how we go through today's agenda and quick introductions. So hey guys, welcome, welcome. This is Dr. Nancy Lee. I help hundreds of people land their dream PM job offer in fan companies and unicorn startup and also continue to get promoted as a part leader. If you want to achieve the same kind of success then please go to this website, DrNancy.com and to learn more. And we have our own coaching program called PM Accelerator and you're able to quickly accelerate your product management career with hundreds of product managers in your alumni network is able to refer you into new companies and continue to mentor you to see your success as well. Okay, so let's see, let's get started with today's main topic. And so today we mainly talk about MBA, right? Do you need the MBA to become product manager? And for people to join us, please make sure to comment on the chat regarding your specific questions you have or anyone who wants to receive free live coaching and join me on Zoom with me basically right now or you can directly email my team or you comment on the chat right now or send your link to Zoom or someone who wants to do a mock interview. You can feel free to join me. That's every Wednesday we give free coaching to help people to advance your product management career. Awesome, so let me do this. Let me share my deck. All right, so let's go through today's training and let's do this. Awesome. Okay, so for people to join us today's main topic, we are going to discuss specifically, do you need MBA to become a product manager or not? We also see people in our audience. Some of you guys commented you are more agile or like project management or scrum master and also see people from a very like a global audience. I love this. Okay, please continue comment on the chat. Let me know your background. And of course today we focus on MBA. So come on the chat. Do you have MBA or not? So come on the chat. I love to learn. Do you currently own MBA degree or not? Or are you currently pursuing MBA? I have my personal opinion regarding is MBA worth it or not based on your final goal. Okay, so we're going to dive deeper. But I do want to hear from you guys. Do you guys have MBA or not? Come on the chat. And a big said no. I see and what about PC and Peru? No, no, no. All of you guys said no. Okay, great. So probably you love to hear the answer. Well, I chair you chair you guys today. Yeah, you don't need MBA. Okay, so let me break it down for all of you guys today. Awesome. So let's get started. Now, first of all, I do want to share some inspiring stories with our student inside the PMX editor. And actually, this is our student Sherry. This is extremely inspiring and crazy. So for people who are currently inside the PMX editor, you know Sherry and also Sherry is also going to give a talk in our upcoming alumni panel. But I do want to give you those inspirations, give you the latest market update. Lots of you guys are worried about layoff, what it's look like. Is this going to impact me? And is there opportunities? Does the entire job market become worse or better? Or is the news just scare people off? Okay. So here is realistic examples and data I do want to share with you guys so you guys understand what's look like in the job market right now. Okay. So this is our student Sherry and actually Sherry was laid off by Robinhood in August. And Robinhood actually laid off 23% of the employees just like gone, almost one out of four people are gone. And also Sherry also has very, very challenging timeline because her H1B already ran out. She only have about like six months or one year left on her H1B. And she really need a job and also need H1B, a green car sponsorship. You need a sponsor H1B for sure, but they also need to kick off the green car sponsorship because she's doing the tier like EB2 category will take at least half year just to like go through the process. So therefore it is extremely like time sensitive. And her background is also X investment banker who became a partner manager in seven weeks. So what she did was and actually was in seven weeks, she was able to plan five offers in total. And one of those offer is join the crypto trading company as a partner manager within seven weeks, even during the crazy layoffs season. Now let me share with you regarding what she did. Okay. So if you're out of the very like sensitive timeline, it's critical you need to immediately use a networking strategy to reach out to more people who have very, very like strong connections with the team's hybrid managers. So hi, the networking strategy is the number one thing that everyone needs to use. Okay. If somehow you laid off or somehow you decide to look for a new job, immediately let everyone know that you're looking for a job and then also pitch to the hybrid manager. So you're able to quickly get the response much faster. Okay. And next, you also need to really learn how to build a portfolio and how to pitch yourself, make a transition because herself has no crypto background, but she's very excited about the website industry. So she was able to pitch herself showing off her knowledge in the website space. Okay. So this will become inspiration for all of you guys. And then as I said, that Sherry doesn't have MBA either. She was able to then offer in the website space and lots of our students do not have MBA. Okay. So you don't need MBA at all. Okay. So now let me share with you how to get results fast and also let me analyze the specific MBA outcome for all of you guys. But before we get started, I do want to remind everyone who is currently into in for like fan companies or like tier one company. So it's important to know what kind of questions they will be asking you before walking to interview. So we can go to this website, docraness.com slash 50 fan to get all the latest interview questions. Those are the golden questions. They're going to select questions based on the database. And okay. So go to this website, docraness.com slash 50 fan to download your interview questions database. And anybody who is interested in joining us to receive free coaching and also mock interview, feel free to email my team at team PM, et cetera.io. And in the description of this video, this also a Google form for you to fill in the information where you can just ask to join me for free. Okay. So we offer free coaching every Wednesday. So go to the description of the video, fill in Google form or directly email team at PM et cetera.io. Okay. And then we'll get selected to join the free coaching. It says people who support nonprofit every year, we do one-on-one donation matches. And actually last year we did one-on-one donation matches up to $20,000. Okay. So I want all of you guys to continue to contribute back to your communities. You donate $1. I donate more than $1 to all the nonprofit you support. So therefore, if you actually donate to any nonprofit, you're receiving free coaching from me because I'm a big believer of giving back. And also whoever gets most likes, comments and shares, I'll go into land free coaching from me as well. Okay. Great. So now anybody who is interested in PM Excerptors, some of you guys ask this question a lot. So how can you join PM Excerptors? What does it look like? So I want you guys to go to this free master class, drncity.com slash masterclass to learn how to land and keep your dream program manager job during hiring freeze, even if you don't have the confidence to take the grade or PM experience. Okay. So those are going to help you to have the right strategy. Even if you don't have those MBAs or tech degree. Okay. So go to this masterclass and learn more and also finally remind everyone to take a screenshot right now. Go to the screenshot and join the chat group or LinkedIn group that directly find you will walk into your partner. Those are free groups and anyone can join. So it's important for you to find the peers who is able to support you throughout the entire process. So go here and start learning today. Okay. Take a screenshot and then join those groups later on. And as I said, we love to give you the market update regarding who is still hiring, who is laying off people. And here's what we got actually last week. And as I said, I also share an offer from OKX and also as a product manager, also have people like currently working with us. And I also share an offer from LASER Fish and also interviewing with many different companies such as Dropbox and Square and those kind of companies. And actually once you're in the final interview with Microsoft, and this we should already, he already landed an offer from Microsoft. Okay. So I want all of you guys to know that there's a loss of company that's still in the screen. And all happened last week. So I want you guys to really focus on those companies that are still hiring and some department is still actually offering very, very competitive salary as well. Okay. Now let's do this. Let me directly go to the MBA portion without sharing the deck. Now, let me see who else come on the chat regarding they land MBA or not. Do you want to see do people get MBA or not? Let me see the answer. I also said no MBA either. I see you also said no degree. Wow. Very impressive. Tell me more regarding your background. All right. So what we are going to do right now is that let me break down my analysis and assumption of MBA. Okay. So now statistics speaking actually like more than 70% of our students inside PMX do not have MBA at all. Okay. So you can land the PM job offer without MBA for sure. Now here is analysis regarding what type of companies that prefer MBA, what kind of company they don't care. Okay. So now MBA or not, my understanding is definitely no, you really do not need MBA to become a part of manager. That's for sure. But does MBA help or not? Now depends on the specific companies. For example, if you get MBA for Amazon, Amazon have like green lights for MBA fresh graduate. If you're MBA that you need to put your L6 compared with other people without MBA to put your L5. So even if you are entry-level PM, you have no experience, you get MBA, you join Amazon, you join like L6 immediately. So it level up yourself into the next higher payment category. Okay. Different like band for people, how much they're getting paid. So it's very critical. You need to understand. Okay. So now second part regarding the MBA I want to share with you guys is for companies like TechDream and coming such a Google, they really do not care about MBA. Strategy department, yeah, like corporate strategy, whatever, any kind of like consultant, they want MBA and they prefer MBA. MBA in general. Okay. So for those kind of professions, they like it. But for Google program management, they prefer people with engineering background because in Google's interview, they will ask you this question. Okay. So how would you design like a browser was how does the Gmail inbox work? It was like Gmail inbox. Seriously, even myself, I don't know it's like sending emails, go to server and pull email. So it's like how this works. The high level I can describe, but I don't know how much details goes into it. Right. So those kinds of questions are the real interview question. Google. So for Google, they decided to have software engineering interview you was because they appreciate technical background much higher than any like MBA or business background. Okay. So if you want to join Google, you say, Oh, I got MBA. I better join Google. No, I'm sorry. Even if you're Harvard business school MBA, I'm sorry. You're getting killed by Google engineer. During those interviews, I make really hard for you guys to get in. Okay. And now another fun fact is that actually for MIT business school and actually in 2015 that year, there's only like three three people from MIT business school and they got into Google only three out of 800 people is crazy. Three out of 800 people that year got into Google. Okay. It was because again, they prefer people with technical background they're going to ask you very technical questions. Even if you get MBA, you cannot get in. So if you go is trying to join Google, I rushed for you to do some like infrasystem management, those kind of degree or like systems engineering degree or even computer science degree. It's going to help you to join Google with much higher success with compared with MBA in general. Okay. Now of course, there's also other companies and they're in between Amazon or in between like Google for those kind of companies really depends on the product you work for. If you're working for like technical focus product, for sure I don't see you need MBA at all. But if you work for some like a product which more like consumer driven for example, for TikTok and even I've seen working for TikTok and they learn like offers from TikTok, they do not have MBA degree either, but they prefer you know, like product growth, those kind of growth strategy, which means your marketing knowledge could be more valuable than MBA degree. Okay. So therefore my general recommendation is that do not waste your money on the MBA degree and the tuition costs you over $200,000 in total for two years. Okay. So those are huge opportunity costs those tuition is huge. So don't waste your money on that. If you're going to become a PM but if you want to leverage yourself to build a greater network through MBA school, yes, you can go. And also you just need to go to a better more reputable MBA school because the people you hand out with is going to decide how big your network is going to be. Okay. So come on the chat with any other questions on this topic or any questions regarding becoming a product manager. Okay. So let me do this. Now let me answer the pre submitted questions. Okay. Let me share my screen. If you join us live, feel free to comment on the chat as well. Let me share my screen. Okay. So let's ask this question. How to get hired as a manager for B2C product. If I'm currently overseas B2B product, very good question list. So those are the free summary questions from the Google form you guys had. The way you do it is that if currently you're a PM for B2C product, you want to become B2C product PM and then you want to join the company here is how you can do two ways to make it happen. Number one is that you need to immediately build a product portfolio for B2C type of product. If currently you have no B2C experience, it's important to demonstrate your understanding of B2C product and how to drive the growth of a product and what's the concept of AB testing what to test what potential challenges you will be facing. So when I become product manager like years ago, I was able to quickly let people know about my business aspect because my degree was in PhD in material science. I was a PhD was a material science was like something very, very far away from product management in general. But you want to show the business side of myself and B2C side of myself. I started like at the store basically selling jewelry. I sold jewelry for over a year. It's crazy. And I was able to create a product portfolio and put that on my resume showing the hey I know consumer I have a GTM strategy I know supply chain I know like e-commerce those are very relevant experience to B2C companies and I was also able to talk about different kind of like marketing, Instagram marketing, marketing strategies I used what kind of strategy works what kind of strategy doesn't work right. So those kind of very good examples are experienced you can show up on your portfolio and also something can talk about in the interview those are critical for you to demonstrate the hey I'm just changing industry to from B2B to B2C but I have other skills and I already have the insights so starting from day one I'm able to contribute my knowledge to your company. Okay, so the second strategy you can do is that within the B2C company and you can actually immediately join those kind of AI department of B2C company as an example for example as Tiktok right so Tiktok has B2C company but Tiktok itself has a different layers of management they have their like content recommendation for the audience they probably also have this like consumer interaction for Tiktok how do they want so many people getting very engaged on Tiktok that's all very consumer driven. Within Tiktok I bet there's an algorithm team who specialize using AI to like track people's attention they probably also have different team which is analytics team right and also have like content category team and recently I have a student from Pinterest she is senior product manager in Pinterest and recently joined Amazon okay so for her role even in Pinterest there are team who manage content category the different content and different category out there and then the separate team represents like content recommendation so two different teams so the team that closer to consumers are the ones who directly like doing like user experience and doing the app figure out how to do content recommendation but the AI team providing the outcome of content recommendation are more B2B which means they are someone is the same as any other B2B company is internal used function that is able to support other layers of Tiktok so basically you can join for example the AI team or platform analytics team as a product manager and you are serving the entire product to serve B2C audience so the company is able to leverage your strengths some who knows B2B product because analytics AI also B2B product and then after you join the company you can gradually move over to the most consumer facing what you say like customer experience like how do they interact with the app running A-B testing doing promotions and marketing I use the growth those kind of more business driven B2C type of growth within the B2C company so two ways to make it happen I want you guys to use the same strategy to achieve your goal quickly alright so now if you are into your B2C company and tell me comment on the chat what's your background and tell me your B2B product background and then I'm going to show you what type of B2C company they will appreciate your B2B background because different companies appreciation is different so once you guys comment on the chat then happy to tell you exactly what you can do but in high level I tell you the high level two type of strategies both strategies works very very well okay now let me answer my next question and feel free to put your question on the chat I see Peter also put your question on the chat and we'll have someone else on again also put your question on the chat okay so put in the chat after I go through the questions please send me question go to yours as well so next question Ben asks this question how do I pivot to a senior product manager role in this recession which industry should be best applied to that's your PMXR program guarantee a job after completion so there are three questions here so Ben first question is how do you pivot into a senior PM role in this recession very good question actually it's absolutely possible I land three director offers starting the beginning of the pandemic which is April 2020 all companies went into freeze hiring there's only 20 job openings out there but I was able to land four offers in total three out of four offers a direct level offer at the time I was just like like a group of managers I jumped into I even senior position when there's only 20 job openings in the market at the moment okay so what I mean is that definitely a possible here is how you pivot into senior manager position you first of all you need to increase the scope of work you need to do things out of your existing boundary you may only be responsible for one feature one small product how are you able to do a kick ass job continue to gain more responsibility to increase the scope of work number two you also need to be a master of like public speaking and presenting your outcome to other people most of the time your scope of work is very big but other people cannot see it that's kind of sad number three is that you need to start to do the senior PM's work which means senior PM start to mentor other people helping young people maybe managing interns helping young interns become a part leader within the company so those kind of leadership mentorship opportunities is very critical for you to advance your career as well alright so actually I published a new video regarding how I became a director was in four years there are eight steps I did you can follow the same eight steps as well so let me show you where can you find the free training cool let me go to my YouTube channel right here okay so this is my video I'm making another video regarding real life example of how to answer tell me about yourself now let me show you regarding promotion alright how did I become a direct product was in four years right here okay so eight things I did to become a direct product was in four years why you can make it happen as well those are the eight different things and I built to this free training and follow my step by step guidance so that you're able to achieve the same result as well and of course we also have a product leader um course and you are able to directly to learn how you are able to quickly become a product leader as well so um come to this I believe I'm sharing my screen right now okay so um we go to darknessy Lee there is the course on the services pma leader well pma pro pma leader okay so pma leader is the is the latest course we launched to help you to continue to get promoted as a senior product manager um and so this is what you do like different things part part of it okay so um go to the specific website and go to my website and click services and click pma leader that helps you to get promoted as a senior pm okay so go learn everything there and um you're able to receive lots of advice here and also join my um different kind of free webinar to get started right away for free okay so now let me answer the next part of the question so next part of question is so which industry we best apply for okay which industry really depends on your specific go okay so for example when I land my director offer I wasn't a director I was just a group put a manager so before I became a director I learned offers in e-commerce industry like it's a very different banking e-commerce um back to the telecom industry so I was able to land offers in multiple industries now in order for you to land a senior pm role in a recession my personal belief is that it's important to identify those kind of cash cow business okay you need to analyze which department what kind of business actually is doing very well during recession okay so those kind of industries I think they have much higher opportunities to grow okay so give you a realistic example for example way fear was in Boston so I used to live in Boston last week actually two weeks ago I moved to Miami so I know Boston company very well so for example in Boston way fear is a company that buy cultures or furnitures online okay company buy cultures furnitures online at the beginning of the pandemic their company grew through the roof significantly better significantly like higher the stock market went through the roof because everybody staying at home they cannot go out to buy furniture in the store they had to buy things like directly like online and lots of furnitures are out of stock then all of a sudden the company was hiring like crazy so during this upcoming recession um because we're gonna have double recession hey guys my prediction is that we are going to have double recession which means is inflation on top of like recession right now you can see how London that Europe is doing I think is extremely scary right now I think the more bad news is gonna happen in Europe right so in this upcoming recession you should ask yourself what kind of industry is recession proof what kind of industry is stable what kind of things that's very needed regardless is like huge recession or small recession okay so for example the industry I believe is super super stable or for example the cloud industry and I think cloud in general is doing pretty well in general so cloud industry is something I personally like the margin is also very high by the way and you should also for example telco industry and because everybody needs connectivity even during recession so um and other other industries who are more supporting people to actually like save money and optimize their finances and those kind of company will continue to grow very well and including for example like Intuit is Intuit have some like like turbo taxes owned by Intuit right so people will continue to pay taxes they continue to actually use like turbo tax regardless and same thing as like a QuickBooks is also owned by Intuit even if you're going through recessions all the businesses still need to do accounting okay so those kind of businesses are totally recession proof and actually we have alumni currently working for Intuit so there I know they're salary I know everything about the companies so they are they are unicorn in the in the industry they're doing very well okay so those are the industries I recommend all of you guys to go after and study okay and now and let me answer the next question um so next question does PMXRT guarantee a job after completion a very big question a very good question okay so PMXRT we guarantee that if you do not land a job within 90 days putting our strategies into practice you're going to get unlimited customized coaching until you land one so there's no stress you just need to follow the setback guidance for us to make you make your career success happen okay so and yes you have 90 days to like land your job after put your our practice our strategies into practice so that's our guarantee okay cool all right so to learn more about PMXRT here's need to do it uh so come here uh so this next question actually same thing okay so how to join PMXRT pro program um which is you go to our website docnancy.com um and go to our master that docnancy.com slash master class and then you're able to select the time that works the best for you to join the master class and stay until the end of the master class where we're going to show you different kind of packages how do we select students to join the program um so go learn about um how we execute our strategies how we help help help our students like fan plus offers and actually I paid up to a hundred thousand dollars per year okay so go to this website docnancy.com slash master class is able to get everything you need from us okay so now let me go back to um this question with this man so answer man's question um tethering's question um jenny's question okay so um jenny asks this question a pma leader does pma leader help me to get promoted okay yes if you're interested in pma leader go to our website show you guys earlier um docnancy.com slash leader you're able to join our free master class learn about how do we help you to get promoted and how you continue to advance your career as a senior program manager or direct product okay oh sorry senior product manager or group product manager so that's that's a go um but if you want to land a job you go to pma pro okay so if you want to learn a job you go to pma pro which is this master class um if you want to get promoted after you learn a job you go to this one in leadership okay so it's everything is on docnancy.com and select the right one that interests you one is pro one is leading a job one is leader okay those two okay select the one the most suitable for you okay now let me answer other questions submit live feel free to put your questions um in the chat so okay great so we have someone from LinkedIn asks this question what kind of jobs can one do after being a product manager for two years assuming don't have MBA very good question as I said you don't need MBA I still do not have MBA I got a PhD and my PhD was in material science that's irrelevant to like product management to be frank that's irrelevant to product management it's also irrelevant to um any like coding or technology in general okay so now what kind of jobs can you do after you being a product manager two to five years you can do two things number one you can directly become a group product manager so two to four years or you can first of all you need to be senior product manager before you become a group product manager okay so four years you can qualify for group product manager which means you start to manage other people if two years you need to get promoted as a senior very big gap okay so become a senior PM first and group PM okay with two to four years experience and after that you can also try to jump to fan companies so with two to four years experience that's a perfect time actually for you to jump to fan companies because fan companies in general they their title is different from any other companies let's say director in Google is equivalent of VP of any other companies so if you are product manager in Google it would be senior PM of any other company but Google pays you very well all my students who joined Google getting paid over 300,000 dollars that's no problem it's like even right now even Amazon getting paying people 300k right now so Google getting paid 350 I also have someone who joined YouTube getting paid 400 over 400 right now okay so that's a two pass in front of you senior PM or group PM or you jump to fan company to get paid more you don't need MBA as I said Peter said I've been pivoting my current role to take on PM PO type responsibilities because my current team doesn't have an actual PM how can you use this to get a PM role in a different industry okay great okay fantastic congratulations you already have done a PM responsibility that's fantastic so that once you are able to package your experience we can qualify you for even more senior jobs in different type of companies okay this is fantastic so congratulations now your goal is get a PM role in a different industry so what you can do is that you need to immediately repackage your experience because down PM responsibilities is likely we are able to like really package your experience make it sounds more real PM so you are you need to build your portfolio to understand what your impact when you conduct your like PM functions those responsibilities and then once you have your package ready you can directly pitch yourself to different industry now let me tell you how to transition into a different industry when you leverage your experience into different industry it's very critical you need to tell them your transferable skills and your impact you're able to get started immediately within the new company so doesn't mean that let's say you are in supply chain industry and you cannot join like B2C TicToc type of company right TicToc supply chain is very different but you need to identify when you run in supply chain did you run anything that's relevant to TicToc for example did you build a platform such as analytical platform to track the supply chain within your industry if so TicToc also has analytical platform okay so you need to connect the bridge between what you did before and what you did what you are going to do in the new company so that you're able to transfer your industry your past experience in different industry for example when I applied for director position I was able to land like a cloud I joined I used my cloud experience to join another banking company I was I came from at that time I worked for Verizon so I learned offer in banking industry because I know cloud very well okay so everyone use cloud nowadays so I was able to jump between any kind of industries very quickly so understand what's relevant to the new company so good job Peter cool so next question okay so Peter said you're in construction managing digital product for B2C very good if you're doing digital product for B2C industry that's very relevant you just need to find any kind of B2C companies who is running any digital product I think it's very relevant very relevant okay so if you have done digital product for construction industry but you're able to manage any digital product for any B2C I think it's huge transferable skills it's more about do you know how the package is started to sell yourself to show off your transferable skills okay so next question um Shirabi for product manager in cloud based industry certification AWS are must needed um is this a statement or is it a question which cities in the US are best for product manager job okay so here is my answer with cities in the US at best for PM jobs um San Francisco has the most job openings in general even if like pandemic people are living San Francisco um I have a friend I have a friend she used to work for Facebook and then she moved two friends one work for Facebook one work for Instagram but they're saying same company on the meta uh they both moved to Miami like me I also moved to Miami recently yes uh but San Francisco still has most PM jobs and out there okay so that's number one place I recommend people to land their PM jobs um besides San Francisco the second best city is like uh LA Seattle and New York so those are the hub okay of course Boston I came from Boston Boston have um uh like PM jobs as well but the number one is San Francisco there are lots of PM opportunities um Jeff Jeff things that I was co-founder um how can I add that experience to product oh fantastic so Jeffing fantastic okay if you are a co-founder of a startup that's that's the best experience personally speaking that's better than MBA so starting your own company is a mini MBA actually I personally believe that I see is even better than MBA basically you are applying the MBA strategies into your new job okay so I highly highly recommend the um like starting your own company now uh exciting news and we have a student who like um what's his name David so David our student David was an entrepreneur he joined META we also have students we'll say Lydian Lydian was also like an entrepreneur she ran her own company for like eight years she just said she got bored she was in the education space and then she joined another company at the C level it's crazy okay so yeah many many many like co-founder of another student Harvard he was also a co-founder of a company I say he CEO of the company and then joined another company at the p.m. so easy it can be done I this is the number one experience that's relevant to p.m. okay so how can I add that to product you need to as a co-founder quickly you need to first of all identify what you did in the past it's relevant to product management so how to identify that you should watch some free training on my youtube channel we I tell you what is was a rose and responsibilities our product manager what does product manager do so watch those three training so let me show you those free training and immediately okay so let me show you my youtube do do do do do do is is this here let's see it's here is this okay this is my youtube channel Now, okay, for all the videos, what does peer, what does parliamentary do? Here, here, here, here, what does parliamentary do in different like big tech companies and tech tech, supply chain, yada yada. So watch these two different, actually three, there are different videos. So watch those and you are able to learn what do we do in different companies and use those to identify part of your past co-founder experience, how much is relevant to PM. Of course, inside of PM, we have very in-depth training tissue, like GTM, how to write requirement, how to do customer segmentation with a customer persona, like how to design roadmap, that's more in-depth training. You can go to this website, darknancy.com to learn more. So select a PMA Pro. I believe Pro is more suitable for you, okay, for your co-founder background, okay? So learn this first, immediately. And then you start to pitch yourself as the chief product officer, whatever like a managing product and that's relevant for management in your startup as your startup experience. And then you start to tell others how much impact you had, launching product, managing people, building product and everything together, okay? So it's very, very critical. You should start to learn the first and then pitch yourself to other companies by showing off your product experience. Okay, so comment on the chat with any other questions now. Let me take some water. Awesome. Okay, cool, looks like we answered most of the questions, actually all the questions. We answered all the questions already, okay, great. So now, once we answer all the questions, here's what you guys do. Number one, I really want you guys to set a very clear goal. What do you need to do or what do you want to do in the upcoming like two months or three months or by the end of this year. So we still have one quarter left by the end of this year. You need to set it clear. Resolution regarding what you need to do and why you want to achieve such goal, okay? Write it down right away because if you don't write it down, believe me. Three months later, be like, oh Nancy, I sort of want to land a new job as a PM but I didn't and three months already passed. Time doesn't wait. Okay, so write it down immediately and also anybody who is interested in PM, etc, go to this website, docprinancy.com slash masterclass to learn more about how you land a job if you want to get promoted after you land a job you go to PMA leader, but PMA Pro are suitable for most of the people who want to land a PM job and also someone who want to learn was the best methodology to gain PM experience to master all the fan level PM skills. You go to this website docprinancy.com join PMA Pro and learn more, okay? Cool, all right. So thank you for joining me today and feel free to share this video with any product managers or product leaders who want to continue to advance your product career. Awesome, okay, great. So looking forward to see all of you guys in my last next live training, awesome. Okay, talk to you guys soon, bye.