 ranting, reflecting, reasoning, reckoning. The huddle with paperplusoffice.co.nz. By all, your office supplies and stationery online now. We have this evening, Josie Pagani. Hello, Josie. Hi, Larry. And we've got Cameron Slater, editor of The Truth, and waylall.co.nz. Good day, Cam. Good day, Larry. Josie, to you first, how do you see Brendan Horne in New Zealand First MP's position right now when his brother is more or less saying that he's accusing him of withdrawing $85,000 from his dying mother's bank account? Well, he's entitled to be assumed innocent till proven guilty, isn't he? And he's saying that he's completely innocent of any wrongdoing. So we have to give him his fair due there. But look, it's either a horrible family feud. I think the mother won lotto, didn't she, in Australia? She won a million dollars. You know what? He is guilty. But I noticed that the only politician so far who's even hinted at going near this because they're all backing away until they know what the hell's going on is John Banks. Well, having John Banks complain about unexplained flows of money is like having burlesque. Right, and I think Mr. Banks should just stay well clear of this. Look, Cameron, there's nothing proven. There's no proven. We've got some allegations here, right? Yeah, and Winston never got any donations from Owen Glen either. Yeah, but I mean, you know, I just think John Banks of all people should stay away from this. Oh, you just love bashing John Banks. The bottom line is, as you've got New Zealand first, they learned on the master's knee on how to obfuscate and how to dance on the head of a pin. And there's probably more to come on this, I would suggest. Certainly from a couple of people that I've talked to today, there's a lot more to this, and that New Zealand first is known about it in months and months and months. So what we'll get now is we'll get Winston denying all knowledge of any sorts of of notification, throwing some board member under a bus, and then professing that they didn't inform of anything, and if you believe that Winston Peters doesn't know everything that goes on within New Zealand first, then I've got a bridge. Well, what we know here, Josie, is that there is legs to this in the form that the brother is saying about the police. That's right, and there may well be, but the point is we don't know yet, and until we know for sure. And also, I'm not going to be an apologist for Winston Peters, but he's come out and said, show me the facts. Once I've got the bank statements and I know what I'm dealing with, then I'll act. And that's fair enough, but also you have to ask, can you say you know about this? Is there a political motivation once again with a dodgy story that might be nothing to do with it? No, the people I've been talking to today are not political in any way. A couple of journalists, you know, other sources around the Taorong area, but none of them are politicians. This is not a smear against Winston. Winston smears himself just by opening his mouth, and so we don't need to worry about him. We know that everything that he says is what it appears. Now, we'll come back in just a moment. Cameron Slater, Josie Pagani on The Huddle. It's now 15-6. 12-6 back with Josie Pagani and Cameron Slater. Josie, let's, a couple of quick issues. Jetstar. What is it about Jetstar? They keep cancelling flights or rescheduling or whatever, or they have other mess ups. Your book, you can't be sure that you're going to fly. What do you see? John Slater, you interviewed beforehand saying that they're a low-cost airline and they do that by cutting out the frills. Well, they've taken it to a whole new level. They cut out the actual flight. This is the problem. If you're silly enough, like I've been in the past, to buy Jetstar, well, maybe you've only got yourself to blame. There's a great website called Don'tFlyJetstar.com. There's a Facebook page called We All Have At Least One Bad Jetstar Story. I almost wonder if it's a PR strategy. Well, yeah. Cameron, they're just making a mess of this airline. I don't know why anyone flies Jetstar. And if you've got, let's say, your family member said, we'll fly you in for Christmas. We're going to book you on Jetstar. You'd think they actually hated you and didn't want you to turn up. I've got a theory, Cam. I reckon the Taliban or Al Qaeda are actually own Jetstar and they're running it. And this is like, you know, hijacking a plane is so yesterday. They're actually hijacking the whole industry into its knees by running them like lemon Jetstar. Well, you know, you look at the Urban Dictionary and what they call Jetstar. They've replaced the first three letters with a four-letter word that starts with S. Cameron, political marketing expert. This is Claire Robinson from Matty University. She says four of the country's biggest newspapers were substantially biased in their coverage of last year's election, mostly in favour of John Key. Unfortunately, we haven't got too long on this. What do you see? We've got a lot of people reading. If you have a look at the coverage, particularly the over-eating of the teapot tapes by the media, it's just ridiculous. And then when you look at just the bare facts, I mean, we had the Rena thing just before the election where Phil Goff was in his shiny shoes digging up globs of oil for five minutes in his suit. Look, his staff are responsible for the poor photo opportunities that existed. You know what, I actually agree, Cam. I actually agree with that. I was a press sec. And look, it's our job to make sure that these bad photos don't happen. I once almost knocked over a journalist to stop him taking a photo of the minister of corrections locked in a new prison cell. There's hands on the bars. Well, remember, these are images. They're photos. They're not the words. They're graphics, captions. That's right. But the other thing, Larry, is that when you're behind, you get worse coverage. Because the reporters are trying to explain why you're behind. And when you're ahead, they'll highlight the positives to explain why you're doing well. So you solve the problem by being ahead. Thank you. Josie Pagani and Cameron Slater on The Huddle. News Talks EDB. It's coming up 9-6.