 Well, we're back alive and we have Senator Brian Campion Sheriff I'll say Senate Education, excuse me and they have Provided us and it's on our web page a rewrite of section six and Which is the intercollegiate sexual harm our sexual prevention Council so Senator campion you want to go through I'm assuming the Educational committee will be offering the amendment on the floor Thanks, Senator Sears. Yes, and thanks for having me and I'm glad Michelle Child is here What I would just like to say and then I'll stick around I'd like Michelle to walk through it and then take questions as she she goes through it But the short of it is yes, we will we did hear from the University of Vermont the State College is A sexual violence task force. We also had written testimony submitted And we feel as though we're hoping and we hope this committee agrees that this would be Put into H 183. We did make some changes Senators in particular Lions Kerslick and Hooker were Took the lead on this and really worked and made some some edits and some more I Don't know if I'd say significant changes, but some additional changes that Miss Charles would walk and walk you through And I thought as we go through it. I'll be here to Address any questions that might come up with the language. How does that feel to you? Sounds good? I should we have four different colors Yeah, I thought that was very helpful It was great And so you have I don't know if it matches the senator's recommendations if that's still on there But lions is in yellow virtually. Okay, good. So Hooker pink and UVM is green. It's green In gold should yeah, it should have been catabined, right? so if so, yeah, I'm happy to stick around and The dance, you know, why don't you thank you senator camping Michelle? Why don't you walk us through? Sure. And and so you have a clean version and then you have that marked up Is your preference for show you the marked up copy? Yeah, I like to see the marked up so we can see are these the the marked ones like using the term harm prevention council, that's a change from the house version Yes Yes, there's here's reworked from the from the house version Changes from the house. Yes. Yeah, what what version is this please? one three point one One is the clean version that they voted. I'm just showing you Their markup process because senator wanted to kind of see that. Yes, very good That's helpful so starting with the term harm Sure, so we're so we're looking at draft 2.1 with the little coding color coding. So you'll see change the previously said sexual violence prevention console and members prefer to use the word harm because it's a little broader and when you're talking about the issues That are involved here around Around campus sexual harm. It's it can be it's involves harassment and other issues not just violence and so I think in That it is a more appropriate term based on the the recommendations of the task force, which is What's to have this council? Subsection a that's just a little technical I think so nothing substantive there the next change so you'll see the the section on Subdivision one is the members of the council Change is at the top of page three adding a new subdivision to at the suggestion of senator Hooker That to ensure a council that is reflective of Vermont's college campuses appointing authority shall consider diversity when making appointments to the council So that's just kind of an aspirational statement, you know, some folks are going to be Tied into having to pick a specific person because of the the type of appointment it is So like the title nine coordinators and like that it's going to be who it is, but it's to encourage Diversity on the council So subsection C on duties, this is just reworked a little bit the first one Added there was strong support for this and Sir alliance suggested it is that the first thing that they do is to review the recommendations from The task force report and develop prevention solutions to sexual harm based on those recommendations so Senator Perchlich had specifically really dug in and read the whole report and was looking at it and was interested in Kind of looking at in deeper at some of those recommendations And so what they wanted to that have the council do is to follow up on some of those The next change is on subdivision four and this is the language that I think Wendy Koenig submitted from UVM as a recommendation And I think this committee thought I think Jeanette was the one who actually forwarded it to me And so that is the exact language That UVM had proposed and it's just like tweaking semantics very in my son in my Opinion very minor, but it wouldn't thought they felt more comfortable around that Around sharing effective practices as opposed to best practices The next change is the top of page four subdivision five Senator Lyons Identify campus-wide activities publications and services that promote a campus culture of respect to support in the prevention of sexual violence And you know, I'm looking at that and I'm thinking I should probably change that word to harm No, okay So and the next one is something that was a specific recommendation of the task force and Senator Perchlich had recommended that they this kind of be highlighted for the for the council to report back at the end of this year So that the legislature could if it chose to take action on this particular thing Remember the council is only authorized to meet four times a year Right, and so there's a lot of things that they would be looking at but this one is to recommend statutory protections By November 1st to ensure that there's a sexual harm similar to the good Sam that we just passed on Exactly exactly same exact concept is that you it's Would be this would be for the universities right that they wouldn't be able to or is it for crimes I'm not sure I could the University of Vermont for example punish somebody who reported something right them I understand that That under this it would not you maybe that's something that should be in that study should the University also protect from Consequences right well, let me let me look at the underlying task force report. My guess is that it's talking about any kind of repercussions whether that be Yeah, I would I you know We've got plenty of time because this bill still in appropriations need to be voted out hopefully today, but So So I'll follow up on that Kind of related to that subdivision six is so the the house version had the network calling the first meeting no later than September 15th of this year If you are requiring them to report to you by November 1st and that really arguably only allows them to have one meeting Prior to that you'll probably you know, it's their first meeting setting their agendas and figuring that out And so they thought that if you have them meet for the first time at least in the summer then you can squeeze in a second meeting in the fall To to ensure that they have adequate time to be able to recommend some suggestions on subdivision six And then Effective date has those sections has the has the establishment of the Of the of of the council and the appropriation for the staffing take effect on passage And then the rest would would continue to take effect on July 1st something I do want to mention and the center Sears mentioned And I have to look at it is that I think I made an error so the the Still has a has a seven year Sun because that's typically what they do for any kind of Council board that's established That would have been 2028 and I think I unintentionally while looking on something for someone else related to this In 2025 so and I and I didn't highlight that or discuss that with senate at and so that is three years shorter so it would have a four year sunset instead of a seven year sunset so Can I just my apologies for that? Can I just clarify there? Yeah, senator campion So did you all discuss changing the sunset? We did not discuss changing the sunset could could you do that absolutely Okay, could I also comment on that All the boards and commissions now all the boards and commissions we and I realize this is a task force or something else but All the boards and commissions that we set up now have a five year sunset unless They're just as reports do I personally would favor 2025 Yeah, I think it's sort of like our DAP we came back and looked at it and said yes, we should continue it, but at least it forces You know Hopefully some of some of you will still be here in No, I like that change as well. I would just like send it head to yeah, we're happy to take another look at that this afternoon The only the only question I have Michelle is effect if you can make the appropriation effective on passage when the bill if the bill were to pass before the budget You need to check with Stephanie on that one Okay, because I am assuming it's in the house budget. It's not in the Senate budget at this point and If we made it effective on passage, I don't know if that's a problem or if it's nothing I mean, it's it's not it's for FY 22. So the money wouldn't be happening until July 1st. Anyway, so right I'm happy to put that as July July 1st I think you probably check with Stephanie, please I don't okay Michelle could you scroll up To the UVM language. Yep Yeah, right there So this uses the term tertiary violence. I I am familiar with tertiary prevention primary secondary tertiary prevention And I'm wondering if that's a reference to prevention because if you unless there's a Discussion of sexual violence in primary secondary and tertiary forms So I'm I'm just flagging that I I've never heard tertiary violence, but I've often heard tertiary prevention. So I believe that language has been in there since introduction and I and it hasn't really gotten any Discussion until then about that particular term so We can flag that also if you want us to look at that would be great. Yeah, I don't know whether Is Sarah you know Sarah might be able to address that because some of this language, you know came from Came from the network. Yeah. Yeah, I think the UVM language is just on the Identify and share the effective practices it okay, they just made a couple small changes to that paragraph Either way it's And and I also don't understand If it is tertiary violence As opposed to a mix up with tertiary prevention Why tertiary and not secondary As well so You know, it's it's referencing a Three-part classification scheme which I've seen used for prevention efforts With tertiary being long-term prevention So I just feel like we need clarification about violence versus prevention there and Why Only tertiary I guess we can have Sarah Robinson into committee this afternoon And have a conversation with her if and then come back to all of you that'd be great. I actually, you know, I I really appreciate Senate ads work on this. I think you did a terrific job And Thank you. Thanks. I agree. I think You know it addresses Several of my concerns. I think there's just a couple of technical questions outstanding Can I just ask a question on the tertiary Violence so is that expanding it to all kinds of violence on campus or just related to sexual Violence Looks like it could add in every kind of violence on campus. I'm sorry. I was stop. I'm gonna stop my screen. So I'm just one to be able to address that because that that that term of art was not something that I selected So did it come from education? No, it was it was in the house version and Senator Nicko we're going to have Sarah Robinson from the network in this afternoon to she's here actually. Oh, she is oh Maybe it'd be a good time to open this up to witnesses for the next few minutes Who might want to comment? Only commenting on The changes from house that Senate education not not that we've already voted out the bill Sharon go ahead. Good morning. Thank you all Sarah Robinson deputy director at the Vermont network against domestic and sexual violence Thanks very much to the committee for being willing to reconsider this Section and for the good work of the Senate Education Committee who had some really excellent conversations about this So I can speak to Specifically that section section four or subsection four I think that the concerns may be Allayed by simply reflecting the language of sexual harm In that section so saying sexual health education strategies for mitigating sexual harm and tertiary Sexual harm on college campuses in Vermont Or tertiary harm just generally so the idea is to Limit the amount of harm that happens after the incident or violence occurs And so that could be retaliation from somebody who has harmed them. It could also be Institutional harm or harm that people experience while going through the process of reporting. So I think that Yes, if I could just ask So tertiary is is third stage And primary I understand but what is the secondary then in that scheme So secondary prevention would be following There I think there's a confusion between violence and prevention So here it's the the primary violence. I understand And then I know you're you're talking about a A follow-on violence, but that seems like a two-part thing whereas prevention. I've always heard talked about in primary secondary Tertiary, so I'm wondering if there's a confusion here between Violence and prevention in the use of tertiary I think you could easily use secondary violence on college campuses in Vermont There I don't think it would change the meaning of that and I think that would make sense Okay, you could replace the word tertiary with secondary And I think that would be fine great Thank you. Are any other comments or questions About this is that Something that Senate Ed can look at this afternoon. Absolutely. We can Miss Robinson if you're available to come into Senate Ed, but I don't know how much will actually need you but just on standby and we'll have Miss Childs and come in I'm thinking 15 or 20 minutes just to talk about that and review the sunset to make sure everybody's on the same page. That would be great Happy to be available if the committee needs me Rebecca Turner or Matt Larry Do you have any comments on this section Morning Thank you Senator series for the record Rebecca Turner Head of the appellate division of the Office of the Defender General I wanted to just focus on one piece of this and appreciate the opportunity to weigh in I don't believe I've spoken to This committee About our thoughts about this one of one of first was was introduced in house tradition there. I shared Concerns relating to the membership of the council and I'm happy to see that the most recent changes of course include a seat at the table By someone by someone designated by the Defender General and that that was a request and I appreciate that and I wanted to bring the committee's attention of page three Lines one two three the the new proposed language Highlighting Highlighting the aspirational goal that the membership be diverse diverse reflecting Vermont College campus And I wanted to share that that I really that I'm happy to see this languages is in line with my earlier express concerns, not just that the Defender General's Perspective Highlighting Highlighting the aspirational goal that the membership be diverse diverse reflecting Vermont College campuses and Not just that the Defender General's Perspective wasn't included in the original drafting and now it is but where that concern really live was just having more diverse perspectives and making sure that those voices were heard on this council as well. And I shared earlier before House judiciary that we know anecdotally that black and brown boys and men are disproportionately accused of these offenses and I wanted to ensure that those perspectives are brought to this forum as well. And so I rec I appreciate lines one two and three recognizing that diversity. I worry, however, that Well, Michelle Childs framed it as an aspirational goal. The current makeup of the membership as described in page two really prevents That perspective of a college student or others from the community representing, you know, You know, students who stand accused from having their voices heard. I understand that the Defender General's appointee provides An aspect of that but that is a much more specific and specialized perspective working within the criminal justice system and certainly not standing in for the voices or perspectives of the students themselves. So I wanted to bring that to the table that while this is great, there really isn't a way to actually achieve that diversity on this panel is currently set up. I would recommend considering expanding the number of student college students who are To be on this council right now it's just two and of the two I don't see an assurance that diversity of perspectives from the college students perspectives are captured there. The second point on this was I was I was sitting on the term diversity and I think that it isn't clear what that means in this context what's intended. Certainly I could throw in wet my two cents of what I think right age gender race ethnicity is the intent to include those those pieces of diversity gender identity household income. Is it that we want to ensure there is representation from both public and private schools student body is it the non traditional student perspective diversity. So I thought that it could weren't particularly where there is such so important to capture these voices in in this in this area. So that those are my comments for the for the new changes here this morning. Thank you. I don't know how to. I don't know how to. But there's delicately but there's. I mean it would be helpful to have somebody that's mostly accused. Would be. I don't know how you write that in as a college student. Because that's the show I was watching about the teenagers. Convicted a sexual assault. Gang rape at Central Park. It's a net. The name of it. Anyway. I don't know if they're. There's a way to. Express that wish to. If I could just speak to that. Mr. Chair. So I sat on the sexual. Violence prevention task force a couple of years ago. And we. I'll just be blunt. We were sort of hamstrung because the membership of that group was set up to be oppositional. And it was set up to have. For every person who was. Arguing about. What what I considered a positive change in the system. There was somebody. In the. In the oppositional. Chair. And ultimately we we. We literally. Our report on the most. Important aspect of it. We almost deadlocked. And so I would be very hesitant to add. Somebody or to try to add somebody. Who has. Or who claims to have been falsely accused. Because it seems what it would. What it would start is a conversation about whether this actually exists. Or whether the problem is. False accusation rather than sexual violence on. College campuses. So I was glad to see the makeup of this panel. Be. Composed very much primarily of. People who agree that there's a problem and are working on it title. Title nine coordinators. I think all agree that there's a problem. And they're, and they're working on it. So. Having. Or trying to write in that representation would include. False accusation. Seems to me to start that. Discussion about is there. Is there a problem or is the problem. One we're creating by falsely accusing people. Just my. Just my opinion on that. My. My experience in this chair tells me that a lot of people. That have been. Sent afterwards exonerated. And many of them are. I don't disagree with you that it might make that. All more difficult. I don't think there's anything wrong with. At least asking for a third students. Oh no, I. I think increasing the number of students would be fine. Can I ask you though? So if you. So right now. You have on the student case. On some division of two college students, at least one of whom has lived experience as a sexual violence survivor and one who represents a campus based racial justice organization. So if you wanted to add an additional student. I mean, do you just want to say three, three, and then specify. The two. My suggestion. My suggestion to the education committee is to have three students. Two of whom are defined and one of whom could be. Any member of the college. Okay. Got it. As long as they're a full-time student. So. Could I just comment on Phillip. And Senator Bruce comment. I can see that you don't want to set up the committee to be. To. Be deadlocked, but I do think you need to hear from those voices. I. I just think that. We often. Do things. Well, meaning, but. Not listening to. Voices that have a different. Perspective or a different experience. And I think it's absolutely. Important that those voices be heard. Well, we do have the defender general. Well, I. I realize that, but. I think as. Rebecca pointed out that. That's very different than having. Just. Because we need to get to the floor. Sorry. I appreciate the conversation and I. I take it that it's the sense of the committee to. That when the amendment is presented by. The Senate education committee that we would support that. And Senator Sears. You will review this afternoon with Ms. Childs and others. Those. Three areas that you just pointed out. And then, which I think. Senator will be comfortable with adding a student. The sunset. And then going over. The change to. Tertiary. Yeah, I don't. That's more. That came from UVM. So they want to. No, the tertiary didn't. I got the green on it. I know, but they, they had made a couple of comments at the very. It was in the house. Bill. All right. Well, thank you all very much for a great week. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It was in the house bill. All right. Well, thank you all very much for a great week.