 So folks, sorry that we are getting started a little late, but I really appreciate all of your being here and we have another another great panel for you In a chance to learn about a lot of different organizations and companies and opportunities So to start off this big picture panel We are going to first hear from Ruth McCormick who is the director for federal and state affairs with the business council for Sustainable energy, and I'm very proud to say that I've worked with the business council for years and years and years and So we're delighted to have you kick us off Ruth. Okay, great. Thank you Appreciate the opportunity to be here, and I have to say how awesome it is to see a full room Especially at 12 30 during the lunch hour. So thanks for spending your lunchtime with us As Carol said my name is Ruth McCormick and I am the director of federal and state affairs for the business council for Sustainable energy, which is a coalition of both trade associations and businesses from the renewable energy energy efficiency and natural gas sectors So I get the opportunity to describe for you the big picture What's happening here in the United States with sustainable energy and to do that? I've broken really it down into five major points What which I think described the big picture and one is first That we as a nation are becoming much more energy productive. We're getting more bang for the buck out of our energy number two Renewables are expanding Number three. We're doing all of this and prices are remaining low for Consumers want it. They want to use cleaner energy and they want to be more energy efficient and number five All of these describe Structural changes that are happening that are here to stay that aren't just a one-off time happen But things are here to stay and I make these points based on a Report that the business council for sustainable energy released earlier this year in conjunction with Bloomberg New Energy Finance the market analysts is called the sustainable energy in America fact book This is our six 2016 edition and it's about the fourth year in a row that we've produced this report and there's a lot of really good factual information in here about these Structural changes that are happening with the United States So to just give you some of the stats to back up the points that I've made the report shows that with respect to energy productivity that since 2007 our economy has grown by 10 percent But our energy consumption has declined by 2.4 percent So that shows how we're becoming much more energy productive with the energy that we use and with respect to renewables renewables now represent 20 percent of our Electric generation fleet and that comes from a wide variety of renewable energy sources I know some of our panelists are going to get a little bit more deep into those technologies, but They have had great years the wind and solar industry in particular have had great years in the past year their generation has increased significantly and We still have other sources of renewable energy such as hydropower, biogas, biomass, fuel cells And others that are making a contribution so our increased use of renewables in the United States Prices have remained low These changes are occurring at the same time that prices for electricity are 5.8 percent lower than they were at their peak at 2008 so despite the The fears that prices would increase with the increased use of renewables that's not happening We're seeing that prices have gone down dramatically a lot of this is the result of the low natural gas prices But it's also a significant decline in the price for renewable energy technologies With respect to the point on consumers demand for these technologies In 2015 Corporations consumed 3.1 gigawatts of new renewable capacity So they're demanding these cleaner sources of energy which is helping to drive the demand in other sectors of the economy These are structural changes that Bloomberg new energy finance Says are here to stay and this is largely because of policies that have been in place put in place Things such as the clean power plan The Paris agreement the international agreement and also multi-year tax extensions that were enacted at the end of last year There's a lot more to be done to increase this positive growth that we're seeing But this is helping to set the stage for a transformation in the energy sector here in the United States Which we think is positive and we'll be here for a while to come Thanks very much Ruth and now we will turn to Jack Tiroff who's the head of a regulatory affairs with Intel Green Power North America. Thank you very much and I will start by giving a Another plug and endorsement to the business council's fact book It's a fantastic resource and what we're talking about the big picture because it's done every year You're able to see really how these industries are are changing So I am a big fan of that book and would encourage everybody here if you haven't read it if you haven't downloaded it Please do so So like Ruth I'm going to go through six points instead of five and let me first just introduce who we are as a company and now Green Power North America is a Renewable independent power producer. We're present in 22 states. We have about a hundred power plants Totally about 2,500 megawatts. We have 750 megawatts under construction now We're unique in this marketplace because we don't just do one technology We're a wind company. We do geothermal. We do solar. We do hydropower and so our portfolio includes Big beautiful wind farms in Kansas in Oklahoma Geothermal in Utah and Nevada Old mill sites that have been converted into hydropower facilities in the Northeast and the Southeast and We're currently building a hundred megawatts of solar in Minnesota spread out across 16 sites And I could go on and on about how fantastic each of those plants is but I would invite you to visit our booth Which is just down the hall and pick up some information Talk to a couple of our folks who are there To learn more about us. So let me drill down a little bit on the renewable energy sector specifically Big picture what's happening? Ruth to build off of what you had said there has been absolutely tremendous growth in this industry I can remember. I think the first expo I came to was 2009 And the progress that has been made for renewables is just Absolutely striking absolutely incredible Last year about two-thirds of all the new generating capacity and sold the United States came from renewable sources So far this year. It's at 99% of all new Generation has come from from renewables That is striking and it's what the future is going to look like Renewables are competitive They're growing absolutely extremely quickly That said so this is point two To temper that growth story Even if you're growing really fast if you're starting from a relatively small base You only kind of slowly take up larger parts of of market share And so March of this year 2016 was the first year that non-hydro power renewables accounted for more than 10% of total generation in the United States Including hydro power we came about just about 20% of the nation's Electricity the actual generation not the capacity Came from renewable sources. That is a a significant milestone But again when you when you go when you talk about 10% of total generation and you talk about 90% of new growth I just shows that these industries are growing quickly, but we still have a long way to go in terms of transforming the broader us generating fleet and For point three, so this is a very kind of sunny story to make a bad pun about solar So there's been great growth in solar and wind and the third point I wanted to make and I think we'll talk about other renewable technologies during this panel as well This that we haven't seen as dramatic a growth for hydropower for geothermal Renewables aren't just wind and solar We love them all we do them all Some of that is cost reduction. We've seen really tremendous cost reductions in wind and solar That's been harder to do for for geothermal and for hydropower to technologies that were We're very active in and I'd also just note that because they have longer lead times You can't do a wind product You can do a wind product and maybe you know two to three to four years Geothermal is going to take considerably longer just by the nature of the of the technology in the regulatory process That the really stop-and-go Policy story that we've seen here in the US on the tax side has been really you know Especially problematic for for geothermal and hydropower and I note that just you know We're telling a very positive story about renewables in the US And we'd like to see those technologies grow as well because it's it's good to have a diverse mix And they are they are certainly important and particularly in the Western US for for geothermal so part of this positive story and this is something that's both driving the market and Reflecting how far we've come is the new customers who have come in It used to be on the utility side that every time you saw a new utility purchase renewables It was really you know sign. Oh, wow. This is becoming more mainstream. We're the point now where the renewables with the utilities aren't just buying renewables Contracting for the power. They're looking to build it themselves. They're looking to own it themselves I think we should take that as a sign of how far the industries have come And this also goes for commercial and industrial clients It also goes for the US government who is just speaking here for the panel before us all of these customers are going towards renewables because of the the cost because you can get a long-term contract for Stable power supply at a very low price That's extremely compelling and again. It reflects how far how far these industries have come Another point a fifth point is just this is a very dynamic Industry there is a huge amount of competition between companies for projects for contracts to sell the utilities It is a very intense Industry and that's again. That's a very good sign competition means we're driving down price The best products are getting built And you know we should not be surprised that at times there's turbulence in the market that you know companies fare Well, they fare poorly people take higher risk lower risk. That's a sign of a really healthy industry and I think that's something that You know we need to to remind ourselves about and as somebody who's in the industry It's certainly something we notice it is it is an intense place to be again. That's a good sign As a sixth point, I wanted to just double down on the fact that policy matters I think that when we point to Where we were in 2008 2009 to where we are today a lot of the policies that have been put a place have worked Renewables are more cost-effective They've been widely deployed By having Policies in place. That's a lot of industry to bring down costs That's a real success story and policy is going to matter going forward. So the long-term extensions for wind and solar are, you know, certainly welcome They give the industry essentially what they've been asking for which is long-term visibility ability to plan ability to really develop a portfolio of projects That's important Policy is not going to stop mattering. It's going to continue to be very Relevant for us and so I say that to you know to praise the fact that we're having this expo That we are having the chance to talk to policymakers and kind of showcase as a broad point Everything that the industry is doing From efficiency to renewables to to everyone else. So thank you Thank you Jack and a couple things. I'm so glad that both the Jack and Ruth mentioned that renewables are a host of Technologies and resources and this country is is blessed with an abundance of those But that's so important to remember and also that there are so many multiple benefits that we receive from all of these different resources but while renewables are very important energy efficiency is huge as well and The more efficient we get the further it lets our renewables go and the more the bigger the role that they can play and One of the most important things that we have is in terms of thinking about how we use that energy And so I'm so glad that Joseph Eves with who is the director of government relations with NEMA the National Electrical Manufacturers Association is here because What manufacturers produce in terms of appliances is absolutely critical Great. So thank you. And actually that was a perfect segue. We're going from renewables I thought I was going to have to make the segue to efficiency. So thank you for doing that for me. So again So again Joseph Eves with the National Electrical Manufacturers Association, so just to give you a sense of our membership We have about 400 members across the country in every In every state our members basically take the electrons that are produced at One of Jack's facilities and brings that here So the transformers the wire the cable all the way to the lighting that's above us So our members make all all that product And so when it comes to energy efficiency, that's a big deal for us and a big deal for our members And those actually the the topic of you know The big picture that we want to that I want to speak to real quickly here Is I don't have six points, but I have one point but two examples So Hopefully I can get through that. So what I want to talk about is energy efficiency And when it comes to the US that all for the US really started back in the 1973 and as part of The energy policy and conservation act as the response to the oil crisis Congress for the first time basically developed the first comprehensive energy Program or policy for the US it's that this is a bill that started the cafe program started the strategic Petroleum Reserve and also in importance to what I'm about to talk about a start of the energy efficiency programs at DOE When it comes to consumer and commercial products And so a little bit more about that that a program for in our eyes has been really successful It started off being a program that covered 13 initial products now Covers over 60 products. So it's seen tremendous growth Which is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to this Because it's included more and more now I think their stats are around the lines of about 90 percent of home energy use is Touched by a covered product and commercial applications. I think it's around 50 to 60 and then an industrial it's around about 30 percent so the program it has its hands and pretty much all aspects of the economy when we're talking about energy And so for us, it's a big deal are Out of the 60 or so products that are covered in the program our members are touched on about 20 to 25 of them directly about 18 and then our Products are also in other products like your refrigerators and things just to give you a sense Well, one of the examples I'm about to speak to our electric motors There's on average you think electric motors may be in big industrial applications, but there's actually I think in average there's about 30 Electric motors in a typical us home So those are things that you just don't see every day But they're there making your life a little bit easier And so what our concern and talk about the future of this program. We're really we want to see it go forward We wanted to be successful, but our concern for the program going forward is that a lot of products are being Are being updated and using more technology, which means they're more connected the program really started off being a Product doing regulations around product by product So you had product a yet product B and down the line now you have product a which is in product C Which is talking to product H And so right now the way the program is set up even though it's been through updates throughout the decades really There's still the framework isn't in place because Congress has not given them the ability to do some of that work To look to look at the systems-based approach And that's really for us where we think the next generation of savings is really going to lie is looking at Systems-based approach when it comes to energy savings, and so I'll give you two examples on that first electric motors So as many of you probably in this room know when it comes to industrial energy use That's about 30% of the entire energy use in the entire country Of that 30 percent 70 percent of it is driving electric motors that are attached to pumps fans You're manufacturing processing lines All sorts of equipment in the industrial commercial application And so for us in the past it's been really important for how efficient can we drive electric motors? You know how how much efficiency can we get out of that? But now for example you have most electric motors and a large electric motors In the 90s in terms of efficiency So for us it's about okay. Well, we're in the 90s and a lot of in a lot of these cases Where can we drive more savings for our customers? Well, it's glad we have the water folks on the on the panel today because some example I want to talk about is actually at a water utility So typically you have in the past you have electric motor attached to the pump that pumps the water and then it's off and on right? now those same process or that same equipment can now be Connected to go from the electric motor to a controller a variable speed drive is technically what it's called And then to the pump so that kind of extra piece of equipment and now allows you to Control that that motor and control that pump so instead of going at a hundred percent You're going at twenty percent or thirty percent everything's still on but you're able to control and react to the actual demand and need And so that additional control drives additional savings for in this case the water utility So that's reducing costs that gives them the ability to connect to software and to remote technologies to where they can be in the office Or they can be you know at their home, especially in a role in a rural utility situation where maybe there's four or five people that are Running the the water utility It's important for them to have that control and they can also attach it to software So if power is really cheap in the middle of the nights in their location, they can run their pumps or do more processes at night So for us well, we're really looking at is driving more of those Efficiency gains when it comes to systems We're working with a variety of stakeholders to make it easier for customers to look at all of that equipment and install it and knowing that for their particular application that they'll They'll get the savings that we're driving the second example That I'll get to real quickly is when it comes to lighting as we all know lighting is going through a tremendous amount of change right now LEDs are really the future of that We've seen that firsthand in our own cells data to where for the first time in the first quarter of 2016 LED in terms of the consumer market made up over 25 percent of the entire market or everything else has been seeing a decrease And so just the simple technology switched from incandescent to LEDs is driving a huge amount of savings DOEs conservative estimates is by 2030 We can save about 265 terawatt hours of energy so that sounds like a really big number and my boss told me that's really wonky and you need to really Change that and so I converted that to homes. And so that's about 19 million homes in the US on a yearly Basis if you go with DOEs aggressive projections for LED lighting, which includes Systems includes controls, which I'll highlight in just a second. You're looking at 395 terawatts of Energy saved and that comes to about 36.1 million homes in the US annually So that's a huge amount of savings And to really get there you need again look at a systems-based approach the LEDs one the reason they're taking off Especially in the commercial space Is that you can connect them to building management software you can connect them to shade so if when they Redo this side of cannon Maybe they can put some daylighting shades on that window and it can see like oh well We can turn down those lights because there's enough daylight coming in again Dimming and then reducing the overall electricity use that's through the lights And so I'll just close with that And just say you know We're really interested in gun hoe with work working with new technology and pushing and working with our stakeholders and with DoE about how to drive even further efficiency savings out of this out of two legacy products that are ever-evolving Thank you. So thanks because it is a very exciting forward moving story and And so we look forward to hearing more about that So we're now going to turn to mark McCall who is the executive director for the loans for the loan programs office at the US Department of Energy and of course there. They are really looking for the sort of the next Sort of generation that looking for innovative clean energy approaches to really push the envelope forward Thank You Carol and thank you for having me today. My name is mark McCall I am the executive director of the loan program office at the Department of Energy I'm very pleased to be here to give you an update on on what we've accomplished and where we're going And it actually plays right into to a lot of the comments that you've heard from from the panelists today So I actually started in this job about a year ago. I came from the private sector I had helped start a private equity firm that invested in energy about 17 years ago So for the last 17 years I was actually the chief financial officer and the general counsel at an energy-related Private equity firm and that helps inform my view of the challenges and opportunities that are facing us as we try to deploy Innovative technology in the energy industry. So starting out with just giving you a little bit of background on LPO What is LPO? So LPO talking about the importance of policy LPO was created in 2005 in a bipartisan manner And we managed two separate loan programs. So the first loan program was title 17 And that was designed to launch innovative clean energy technologies into the market that reduce greenhouse gas emissions We have three Technology-specific solicitations that were focused on one is advanced nuclear one is advanced fossil technology and one is renewable energy and energy efficiency To qualify for a loan in one of those solicitations There's there are a few things so you have to build your project in the US so that we get the jobs in the US You have to deploy innovative technology and you have to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and importantly There has to be a business plan that includes at least 20 percent coming from the private sector in terms of total project costs And that business plan has to give us a high degree of confidence that the loan is going to be repaid That's title 17 clean energy finance We also run the ATVM, which is advanced technology vehicles manufacturing program that was set up in 2007 And that was designed to support American auto manufacturers and help them meet the increasing mileage standards and also support American manufacturing So one question is why were these programs established? I think importantly Congress recognized that there is a gap in the marketplace when it comes to financing innovative technology And particularly at that moment when you're scaling it up so Commercial lenders and bondholders are typically not willing to take the risk of scale up with a new technology That's what LPO is designed to do and that is where we tend to To play and it's actually very important because we were talking about the the fact that these these new technologies have started from a Small base, but they're now growing and gaining and significance and very important to that is Reducing the costs and so one of the places that we've been very successful is in utility scale solar PV So in 2010 there were actually no utility scale solar PV projects in the US LPO financed the first five for about four and a half billion dollars and Over a five or six year time period costs have come down more than 60% And that has allowed the private sector to essentially drive forward with that business It's become a big business in the US. There've been at least 28 new projects that have been financed for utility scale solar PV Without our involvement since that time and so now we are looking to do that same thing with other technologies So by definition anything that we've financed in the past We're probably not gonna be able to finance in the future because it's no longer innovative So we're actually looking for the next new innovative technologies to finance So just to give you a sense of the success of the program we judge ourselves on three three factors So one is deploying innovation one is reducing carbon emissions and one is our financial performance So just to run through, you know starting with deploying innovation I'm just gonna run you through kind of the highlights of our existing portfolio. It's a 30 billion dollar portfolio We financed the first new nuclear reactors in the US in 30 years. That's plant Vogel in Georgia We financed five of the first solar PV facilities in the US We financed five of the largest concentrating solar including two with storage, which is very significant We financed one of the world's largest wind farms in Oregon three geothermal facilities in the western United States and our auto program financed Tesla to build the Build out the Fremont facility where they're they're building the Teslas So help to bring the first zero zero emissions full-scale automobile to market We also financed Ford to retrofit 13 different facilities where they're building the eco boost engines Which are a much more efficient engine and we helped finance Nissan to actually onshore jobs So they brought they built from scratch an advanced battery manufacturing facility in Smyrna, Tennessee and added an assembly line They are to an existing facility to produce the Nissan leaf And importantly none of these projects that I've talked about I think would exist today if Congress hadn't Put in place the LPO and provided the financing to back these projects The other the second way that we have Evaluate our success is reducing carbon emissions. So once all of the projects are operating at capacity The portfolio is expected to avoid over 19 million metric tons of CO2 each year And we just released this update today, but as of April LPO's portfolio had Prevented 30 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions, which is the equivalent of 6.2 million cars off the road the other way we judge our financial error judge our performance is based on our financial performance and You know importantly, it's tough to kind of judge apples to apples But at this point 98% of the money of the funds that have been loaned out are expected to be repaid That gives us about a 2% loss ratio and if you think about that and compared to the private sector that's actually very very Impressive metric and particularly when you take into account the fact that this program is financing technology and Scaling it up and that most of the money went out during the heart of the fiscal crisis So if you compare that loss ratio to any major bank during that time period, it will stand up and perform very well And there's no accident. I mean, that's not an accident that we're performing Well, we actually do a lot of things to protect the taxpayer interests in terms of rigorous due diligence the way we structure the deals And the way we monitor them So moving forward we're looking to do more of the same. So we still have about 40 billion dollars in remaining loan authority that's 16 billion for the for the advanced technology vehicles manufacturing program and 12 billion for advanced nuclear 8 billion for advanced fossil energy and 4 and a half billion for renewable and energy efficiency and last summer at senator reeds clean energy summit president Obama announced guidance for Distributed energy projects under the fossil and renewable solicitation. So we're working on distributed energy as well now so by any measure whether it's deploying innovation reducing greenhouse gas emissions or on our financial performance LPO has been a tremendous success and you know, we're continuing that with with more than 40 billion dollars of loan authority remaining and You know, why is that important? Well, I think it's become consensus that innovative energy is Going to be an economic driver going forward and it's very important that the US lead on that and not seed our place to others And you're seeing other countries that are ramping up their investment And we need to we need to build on the successes that we've had so that we get the good jobs that we build the Enduring companies in the future. We have the IP here And LPO has shown I think that we can select the projects get them built Get them constructed get them operating and see the taxpayer paid back So it's been an important success in the policy arena in terms of driving forward the things that my colleagues have spoken about Thank you. Thanks mark so for Looking at another sector We're going to turn to Andy Kuntz who is the president CEO of the US high-speed rail association a Whole area that I think doesn't get nearly enough attention Andy And thank you for having me here it is interesting that Transportation is probably one of the biggest users of energy and most of the things we're hearing here today is about Electrical generation and less about Transportation energy, which is a liquid fuel situation and we really face a Coming crisis that we're not going to have enough liquid fuels to power all of our transportation right now Something like 98% of all the transportation in the world is powered by liquid fuels The only ones that are not our electric rail systems, which can then be powered by Any number of sources as you scale up renewable energy So well we we launched the US High Speed Rail Association in 2009 and we put out this map As a vision for the country it shows 17,000 miles My assistant Kelsey you actually just passed these around to anyone who wants to see it And what this shows is is that it's a vision for the country for the next 30 years or so to build out a complete new High-speed rail system 100% powered by renewable energy and so we're showing it built in phases We started with some of the busier corridors to start there and Scale up as we go across the country and what this can do once this is fully built out This can literally reduce our oil consumption as a nation by up to like 70 or 80 percent Because most of it again is we're Extremely inefficient we talked about efficiency a minute ago our most Inefficient thing that we do in this country is our transportation system and mainly with a single occupant in a large SUV is about as inefficient as you can possibly get to for a transportation mode so the idea is that building high-speed rail is Lays the groundwork for a new transportation system for the future and the second Initiative that we started goes right with it is transit oriented development and we started the transit oriented development Institute to promote Compact walkable mix use development at the rail stations So when you combine those two a walkable mix use community where you can get to your many of your daily needs by walking Or bicycle or riding a train you combine that with an extensive rail system You can literally almost take the energy knee energy use out of the system completely you can replace cars not needed in many cases And and there's many countries around the world that have proven this the high-speed rail has been in existence for over 50 years starting in Japan They went big with it in Europe about 30 years ago all over France and now it's literally China just built like 10,000 miles of all brand new high-speed rail in about Seven or eight years and their country is now extremely efficient. They have they the China's high-speed rail system has reduced the global Pressure on energy supplies just their own system alone because there's such a big nation that so many people so well We're we're promoting this as a way to really kind of build a 21st century Economy a 21st century transportation system with 21st century living options for people to live Inwalkable communities and not have to be forced into using a tremendous amount of energy just to live their daily life Or just to run a simple errand you have to move a 3,000-pound vehicle just to go get a gallon of milk. It's not really very smart or efficient So anyway, that's what we're doing. We have a conference coming up September here in DC Transnory development conference it will focus on Rail real estate and lifestyle and kind of the intersection of the three and how when you put the three together You really do get an enormous energy savings. So with that, thank you And if you have any questions, we do have a booth in the other room to come and talk to us great Thanks so much Andy and we've also heard other people talk about water today and how critically important it is So we are now going to hear from Thomas Horner who is the vice president for water management Stand up I have a habit of I think what we're really here today and what this conference and this panel is about We're here to talk about the commons and what really that means to us the concept of the commons Started in small communities in Europe that it was what's the most fair way to divide our joint resources What can the government do what can so the commons has evolved from a lot of experts points of view To it's the air we breathe. It's the water we use. It's the energy we consume But it's every single part of The federal state and local governments They're owned by us. It's part of the common Interest to do what's right and you've got an incredible amount of smart people that are still working in silos that in the past never really talked to each other of One of the advantages I have been a Water nut growing up around a lot of energy people is I'm at conferences for the last 35 years And I've gotten to know some Good friends in the area and so some of the gurus I remember asking one this year So what do you see in the next 15 to 20 years? Where is the energy in the renewable field going to be and he just cracked up laughing and He looked at his iPhone and he said this isn't even 10 years old yet We forget that We did not have an interconnected World 10 years ago the transfer of technology the transfer of ideas is at a lightning speed compared to what it was and So The sustainability the reliability the efficiency fields They're all going to grow exponentially For the next five to ten years. It's a trend that can't be stopped and so what was interesting a few of the experts I asked what are going to be some of the real crisis is and the real problems Probably one of the biggest problems we'll see in five to seven years is The grid and when I talk about the grid, I'm not just talking about Electricity, I'm talking about natural gas. I'm talking about water and sewer the four essential services We need to survive There's a possibility That with the nega watts watts and the conservation movement coupled with how incredibly The cost reduction in all of the renewables That 25 to 50 percent of the commercial industrial and Residential consumers within five to seven years will have no need for the grid They will be able to generate on site all the power they need when you get 25 percent of People and at least what the experts are telling me anyway is 50 to 75 percent of new construction five years from now will be capable of net zero On-site production the problem is the grid and If they do not have the ability To cost effectively store and deliver electricity They will become Non-relevant 20 years from now The problem of looking off 20 years in the future is When the guru chuckled at me he was You have that's science fiction 20 years away well, it was 20 years before that Star Trek was using their communicators and the nine-year-olds were watching that and saying Wow, that's really cool. I want one of those Well, the stuff you see in science fiction today is going to be common in 20 years. I don't know how So the conservation movement We talked about Water is the lowest of the hanging fruit But we're seeing it in controls. We're seeing it in lighting. We're seeing it in every field that 30% reduction in water Electricity is not uncommon for a building. That's only 10 years old we're getting much more efficient from the 70s on and The biggest blowback from It seems some of the electrical providers are not being fair to their customers on their interconnection fees and On the rates that they're paying for the electricity that's generated What they're doing by those policies is Pushing the consumer to go off grid The more people that go off grid it'll snowball and make the grid for millennials and Generation Z as relevant to them is the phone That is on my kitchen wall My children never use a home phone. There's a good chance that if the grid doesn't take care of Transporting and storing electricity It won't be around 25 years from now. Thank you Thanks to all of our panel