 Hey, thank you so much. While we're fiddling with Pables and bits and pieces here, I'm really, really happy to be here this morning. And I went to bed early. And for once, I don't have that Sunday morning Drupal Camp headache. And I'm really, really grateful that, so I say this a couple times here, who's been to a pre-note at a DrupalCon? Oh, that's awesome. So all of you, thank you for getting up that early, you know, twice a year. That's really, really important. Thank you all for coming this morning as well. I really understand that it's tough to do this a lot. And I'm very, very grateful. This is the fifth time I'm speaking at a Drupal Camp London. I'm actually really, really proud of that. I realized last year that I had been at a speaker at every single CXO of a Drupal Camp London and had never been. And that, I don't know, that feels cool. That feels great. And I love doing my part. And I want to tell you just a little bit about what I do off the cuff. And before we get into this, so Drupal Camp London is actually special to me. And I really think that this is possibly the best Drupal Camp in the world. We can argue about that camp. You know, there are some great events. We have great community. We have great colleagues around the world. The bad camp is amazing. And there are others that are really, really great. But this one also holds a special place in my heart. One of the early talks I gave at the CXO, I don't actually don't remember which one it was. Business value of Drupal. AIDS went to choose to use Drupal 7 or Drupal 8, like all these topics that we've got over in the last few years. So what I do, I try to understand what you all build with code at some useful level and then figure out how that benefits people and explain it to them. You know, a lot of my talks will be called the business value of something. I'm talking about the business value of contribution at Word Camp in a couple of weeks here in London. And I love that. And I love being able to tell the business people, hey, so down in the geek trenches, this is what we do and this is what we care about. And I love telling you people that actually this stuff that we do, it can make the world better and it can do all these things. And I love that. And I tweet about it and I really, really love talking with people on my podcast, all that stuff. But the moments that are the best for me, someone came up to me at Drupal Camp, and they said, hey, so I went to your talk at Drupal Camp London in 2013. And when I went home, I started a business in France and I have my own Drupal company. I feed my family with Drupal because of your talk. And that's it. That's a hefty responsibility. I'm a marketing guy. And we're supposed to be about bullshit and drinks. So I've been doing Drupal since 2005. And this is really my home. And thanks for having me this morning. Now, you're all doing it wrong. No one wants a website. I'm kidding. Yes, so I do a podcast and you can find me online. And please subscribe on my tunes. I put the whole archive back up. And it's one of my favorite things to do. And today, listen, selling Drupal is not enough anymore. And there are other ways to look at what we do to help businesses today and help our own businesses today. And I don't just want to talk in the abstract. I have a bunch of examples from our community about people who I think are doing their Drupal businesses in a way that's right and that's helpful. And I want to share some of my thoughts about how you can go and do something like that. Two, I talk with a lot of people. And the last couple of years of the Drupal 7 release cycle were pretty tough. And I had a lot of discreet private conversations with the people along the way. But sitting here today, how many of you will admit that you had pipeline problems, you had difficulties that the Drupal 7 cycle in the end was pretty tough? No one that's OK. Oh, OK. Yeah, so yeah, that was tricky, right? We took a little bit long to get Drupal 8 out of them. Now, with Drupal 8's release, and now it's been out for a year, and now it's getting the amount of awesome that is being added with every point release, all of you people who put your hand up, are you all doing better now? I hope really hope you are, OK? Who's not? I'm sorry to hear. Maybe, hopefully, I don't know. So a lot of people that I talk with end up being in Europe, and APAC, and so on. But in the United States especially, and in some other places, there's this thing called the Drupal Blues that's been going around. Who's heard of the Drupal Blues? My understanding is that there are people who are not doing any better, even though the Drupal 8 is out and we've got this incredible toolkit, and I was looking at it, and I was trying to figure out what it was, and I think I spotted a pattern after a few conversations with some people. But I think it's because a lot of us are selling Drupal. I think we're selling websites. We're selling code, or we're selling coding. Now, 10 years ago, just having a website was transformational in business terms. Not everybody did. Nowadays, everyone does. A lot of people don't know why they do, and they don't do much with it, but having a website doesn't transform your business. And you need something especially good-looking, or especially powerful, or especially functional, somehow, for a website to be special now. And a website is often only important nowadays. If it's driving a lot of data to you and you can do something with that data, it's not just a, otherwise it's just a kind of a fancy display ad, right? And I hate to say this, but your skillset, the ability to make functional, powerful, attractive websites, which was transformational 10 years ago, which was a good base to build a business on, is also a commodity now, right? Talk with Tim Deeson about this. He says the work that used to be complex for bespoke, even using Drupal, is increasingly being provided by standardized libraries or SaaS platforms. Clients are bringing in simpler tasks in-house and are more comfortable managing digital production teams than ever before. What were previously high-value complex solutions are increasingly becoming commoditized, and clients' expectations are evolving. Digital agencies are facing competition from the automation of some of their production services, standardization of some services through SaaS, and so on. I believe it's more important than ever for agencies to understand how they're creating value for clients. So this is what I want to get to. I have this idea of the value chain and where you sit on the value chain. And if you're at the bottom of the value add chain, if somebody comes to you and says, put the log in here and make the background purple, and I want to slide through there and my blog there, you're not actually delivering any value. And you need to move up the value chain. You need to deliver more value than simply being a code monkey. And that's what I want to talk about today. So my first example is the company where I was the 18th employee and we're now hitting 800. So this is either the most recent or the second most recent corporate mission statement thing. You get that when you turn into a giant whatever it is that AQUI is. Global organizations use the AQUIA platform to deliver experiments. Well, there's no Drupal in there, OK? So look at AQUIA. And AQUIA is a great example of exactly what I'm talking about. AQUIA is, let's see, nine years old. And when we figured out a business model, we offered SLA-based support for Drupal. And then we figured that really to provide successful Drupal experiences, we needed to build the hosting platform. The hosting platform became the cloud thing. And with the spam fighting and with the uptime in the backups and all this stuff, five, six years ago, the ability to do that was transformational. Nobody else did support before we did it. Lots of people do now, and that's good for our ecosystem. But all of these things let us build a business model and grow and succeed. And I contend, however, given that we have very worthy competition in the hosting space. Thank you. And in the support space and in professional services space and all these things, people need these. But a lot of this is commodity now. The ability to run a great secure hosting platform is not magic. So this is no longer transformational. We do all of these things still, but our focus is no longer on building that business. It delivers revenue. It delivers very important services for clients. But it's not transformational. So Acre has been undergoing a change for the last couple of years. And I think this year it's actually going to become visible. What we're doing now is helping large organizations, especially, be successful at their businesses in the digital age. So you'll see the lift three personalization tool. It actually works. It's really cool. And the hosting platform is getting an update. But there's all these services focused on, how do we deal with chatbots? How do we deal with the internet of things? How do we go forward with the way the digital world is changing? And the word Drupal isn't there. We still do Drupal. We still host Drupal. We still provide all these services built on and around Drupal, but Drupal itself isn't the focus. We're adding value in the ability to do complex business in the digital age. So that's been a pivot that we're undergoing. And I think it's going to happen now visibly. Nowadays, WordPress and Wix and Squarespace will deliver you a perfectly decent looking, performing functional site. And we have no bottom end of the market except the sites that we build for our own friends and family and schools and communities. It's not much of a business proposition to be building small sites at this point. And frankly, it's a big question for a lot of people if you even need a website anymore. I think on principle and because we're open source people and because we want to defend the open web, we need to maintain our own properties and we need to build our own communities. But a lot of people will tell you having a presence on Medium is perfectly good enough. Having a page on Facebook is good enough. A friend of mine paid 1,500 euros this week to take over a blog that already has an audience and so on. And it's about Jin and that's a small passion of mine. And it's very interesting. I have some bottles that she doesn't have so I'm going to feature them on her blog and we were talking about this and it's really interesting and even more interesting. She gets sent a bottle of gin a week to review. But that blog is just a Facebook page, right? So what does she need to do to build analytics to communicate with her audience? She does nothing, right? That's really tricky for us. It's really, really tricky. It's not a good answer. So the bottom end of our market is kind of being eaten away. It's really dangerous. There's been a lot of angst about Drupal 8. But I think that Drupal 8 is not the problem, right? The changes in Drupal 8 haven't created these problems for us. We've been given this incredible toolset. All these amazing possibilities and the rate of change in Drupal 8 lets us do much more interesting things. And I think we should use this to have more interesting conversations with our potential clients and we get to build more interesting stuff, right? So we have this problem that not enough of us are delivering value beyond code. We need to think about that. So how do you stay relevant today? Well, you shouldn't sell Drupal. Been saying that. You need to offer actual business value. Now, you might have experience or insights into a particular thing. Is Ronald here this morning? He didn't make it. Ronald grew up in Cyprus and his family has a tourist property. And a decade later, we have Rumofar, right? He knew about that vertical and he made something in code that solves this problem to that state. That's a great way to go forward. You could build something with Drupal and then sell it. You could make a product of some kind. But you might, like, actually use Drupal in a way to facilitate other kinds of change and other kinds of business things happening. Who has seen the Golden Circle? It's a pretty familiar concept. I've been fascinated by it ever since I saw it. Shout out to this guy, Simon. Simon, he's done a couple of other things that are really interesting. It's worth checking him out. And he has a book called, It Started with the White. So who wants to tell me I need to volunteer? What do you do? What do you do? What does your company do? You make software that makes movies. And who here builds websites? What do we do? We build websites. Yeah. Oh, come on. This is a Drupal camp. So this Golden Circle thing, if we start with this question, what do you do? Well, you know, we sell Drupal. I want a website. What do you want? I want a website. It's the wrong way to go about this. There's this idea that you have to start with the why. You have to understand why you're doing something before you can get to how you might do it to get into the actual actions that you take. So as Tim Deeson says, nobody wants a website. And so I talk with Megan Sanaki a lot preparing this. And she and I are talking a lot about she comes from this really hardcore business background. Actually, she worked for Hewlett-Packard and all sorts of things before she came to Drupal. And we've been talking about this a lot and trying to figure out how to help move our community forward and think about Drupal differently. And she says, you need to, well, it says there, right, everything it says on the slide. Plus, right, so create new opportunities for people, but knowing Drupal is not enough. It's only part of the solution. So you have to figure out why? Why is someone coming to you? Why would someone work with you? No one wants a website. What do people want? They want happier customers. They want better informed, Tim built a medical website. I want better informed surgeons. I want surgeons to know how to do the latest technique on me if they have to operate on me. And I need a digital strategy to do that, right? I don't need a website for surgeon training, let's say, because you might decide not to build a website at all today. There might be another delivery channel. So Tim explains this concept of what Megan calls a consultative sale. We're always looking at what are the KPIs that'll actually measure the business impact of the platform that we're going to build rather than who should be the biggest on the homepage. And whenever we get into those debates, we know that we've lost sight of some key goals and things for the business that really matter. We are typically engaged by clients at a business value level. They may want to monetize content or be more effective at engaging with a key user category. We work backwards from key business outcomes, the why, to deliver a solution. And after launch we work with them to continue to optimize its performance. And Tim, I did a podcast with him recently, it's online. Tim gave me the best paradigm yet that I've found for thinking about where to, how to think about delivering value for clients. If you're told what to do, right? Put me the login box there and make the background that color. That's one level. Do for me is the first level. Help me think is the next level. And if you get to help me think, then you're already starting to use your skills and expertise and adding value to the project because you can get into the UX side of things. So I have these goals. Help me figure out what features on this website would help me get to that goal. And that's like, that's a better place. You're actually, what you know adds value to that project. But where you want to be, you want to have partners and clients who come to you and they say, think for me, right? That's strategy. They come to you saying something like, I need all of the surgeons in Europe who do heart surgery to understand these training techniques. What are we going to do about it? That's a nice brief tab, right? Then you can figure everything out. You can work on an overall strategy, you can have a strong digital element if it needs to, but it's an open brief to solve this important problem. And that gets you much, much higher in this commoditization curve that gets you in a position of expertise where you can charge the proper amount for your time and so on. And all of the other phases are easy to nearshore or offshore or automate, but when you're an expert and I'm thinking for you, I'm helping you with this stuff. It's very, very hard to replace. And it'll help you, it should help you sell better and it should help you retain those clients and build working relationships with them over time, right? Because you're adding something that no one else can and you're adding something that can't be cheaply replaced somehow. So, right, and clearly like the silent corollary here is you shouldn't really compete on cost because competing on cost will take you straight into the space that you don't want to be in. Lucas Fisher, morning Lucas, hey. So Lucas runs a really nice agency in Switzerland called Netnode, they've been around for a long time, clearly successful at what they do. And so this one business model that works in adding value is being a full service agency providing strategy and all these sort of things. And Lucas says, most of the time people contact us because they need a new website. Now we have two options. We can create a website and make money, right? Or we can ask the client what they want to achieve with that project. And that lets your agency build a roadmap based on proper strategy, maybe starting with a website but then we can have conversations about inbound marketing, tracking e-commerce processes and so on. And the money shot from Lucas is we use Drupal as our core framework for all sorts of applications like websites, content portals or marketing solutions but honestly, Drupal does not create value for our clients, right? It's Lucas and his team that create value for the clients. Now you've got this, you know, Drupal not creating value, you've got this huge toolkit, you've got a Swiss Army knife here in Drupal that has got a massive amount of capabilities that a lot of people haven't thought about yet. All of the possibilities of decoupling, all of the possibilities of running federated content and having a central repository and all of these things. And the multi-limb, well, I mean, whatever it is, there's so much in Drupal that we can talk about so you can help other businesses move into a white space to do something new. You can use that thing to start new conversations, right? And that's great because you can show them new places that they could be getting value, new things that they could be doing and that's using your insight into the platform and your knowledge of how the technology works but thinking about what kind of value it could deliver that they're not taking advantage of yet. And that's a huge advantage for us. So if you find yourself competing on price, if you find yourself in a space where there's a lot of people doing the same things and gosh, I gotta get another, I gotta get a couple months out, not sure how we're gonna pay the bills, give another discount, that's uncomfortable. Go find something else that you can do with Drupal. Go to a space that's less crowded, right? If everybody's selling shoes, this is a dumb analogy, but look, if everybody's selling shoes, right? Go and sell cars or go and paint houses or whatever it is. Go and think about doing something different with the tool set that you know how to use and find people out there. And this will help you avoid the problems that we have with the globalization and selling hours and all of that stuff and you can protect your margins while remaining competitive but simply finding new ways to compete. So to do that, right, to find a new white space, you can use this, you can use this golden circle and you need to analyze, you need to find your why, you need to find your why. So analyze how the world is going, analyze what's going on here, analyze what sort of things people are going to need and paint a vision, set up a vision, you can call it the poll star, the MIT, I think business school talks about setting a poll star goal, right? So your company might be doing all these things now and you get revenue from that, but if you have a goal where you want to get to, right, and you've analyzed your situation, you find your white space, you find a more competitive area and you want to move to that, right? Then you can start to figure out how to set metrics so that you can start turning what you do, you need to make money with what you've been doing but you can figure out how to start turning your company towards being that new thing and it's really, really tricky. You have to challenge the status quo and get to doing a new thing, right? But maybe you can sell to new customers, you sell this new different thing, right? Or maybe you figure out something that you can do on top of what you've been doing and just increase your business that way. I mean, there's a thousand ways to do this but you set a new goal, right? And then how you're going to get there, set the new metrics, figure out what the, and then you can go and do the actions that'll take you to being where you are but first you have to understand why. Why do we work? Where could we be, right? How could we build a business to get us there? Now we do it and if you do it in the wrong order, if you start with the what, like how we build a new product and we're going to contribute to open source and we're going to do that thing, how do you measure? How do you know when you've succeeded? How do you know when you're getting there? How do you know that you're doing it? Right, you cannot measure it, right? And if I've learned, and it's been some hard lessons, okay, but in eight years of interacting with this world, one of the strongest things that I've learned is you need to have a definition of success that's measurable and actionable, okay? So set a why so that you can transform your organization in a measurable way and if you're not succeeding, right? Let's be agile, do a new thing but that's the only way that you're gonna know if you're doing the right things. And I think this maps really nicely onto this value delivery concept that Tim Deeson talked about that he let me in on, you know, if you start with the what, that's just kind of do this thing. Why am I doing this? It doesn't matter, just do that thing, right? And how do you do it? What features can we use to achieve my goals? Well, that's already better, right? But if we decide on our goals together and then implement them, I think that's a good way to look at it. So talking about some colleagues, some people that we know in our community who are doing this, there are a bunch of full service agencies. So full service agencies who can really provide a really broad spectrum of services that's a great way to go. Their pipelines have remained relatively healthy and relatively stable throughout the D7 cycle because they're not just delivering D7 or D8, right? ZivTech in Philadelphia is, at least, I don't know how it compares to other people's businesses, but the stuff that Alex Urivic-Aklesburg admitted to me that ZivTech does, makes it sound like it's one of the fullest full service groupal agencies that I've ever heard of and it's pretty funny. They do, oh, you know, let's see. They do, at last, consulting as do camera and wilding. SEO content services, documentation, design, they do consulting, they do testing, they offer training. They, you know, plus they build websites, plus they do all sorts of other open source, and the list he wrote me is just, is crazy, right? But that's one, that's a great way to build a business. The thing that's interesting though is Alex says we build websites as well as SaaS applications for our clients and ourselves, and we've recently spun out ProboCI, which is the best QA tool ever, fact. He wrote that in all caps in the email. While some of ZivTech's work does involve regular website design and build sorts of projects, the majority that falls into a couple of buckets that tend to lead to much longer and deeper relationships with our clients. So product, building products, outsourcing staff and so on. So they just do a lot of things and figure out how to deliver value as they go. And Alex says they're constantly looking for new opportunities, just like, oh you need that thing, we'll do that, we'll do that, we got it, we got it. So they're like full, full, full, full service. Another thing though is you can do products, right? And selling a product is really attractive, right? Earn money while you sleep, right? And it's really, really hard to go from being a services company to your products company, and we've seen a lot of people try, and it's hard to know if you're getting a product right, but one way that seems to be really, really promising, right? And it seems to be popular in our community in the last few years, and I think it's a really, really good idea. If you have to do it anyway, because you need to automate something that you do every day, like there's at least a 50% chance that other people are gonna need that too, right? So if you look at products like Amazie.io and PlatformSH, especially Amazie had to build, had to build hosting infrastructure in Switzerland because Swiss data protection location and privacy laws are extremely strong, and the Swiss stand alone and proud, right? So Amazie had to build hosting infrastructure, and it's a bunch of really, really clever people, and they thought, well, we're working internationally and we have this office in Texas and we have this office in South Africa. Like that's, okay, let's try selling this thing. Like we have to build it and maintain it anyway. Worst case, it could make us some money too. That's a good idea, right? Commerce guys went along for years and years and years, and finally, because of how Dominant Tornoux thinks, especially in Robert Douglas, like eventually they got more interested in how to host and support and run great commerce projects than actually doing commerce projects, which is why you now have a commerce guys and a PlatformSH, right? But hosting was something that they felt they needed and they built it, right? ProboCI, you have to do QA to be in a serious agency, so they've built a product that's doing QA. Rumify is an exception to this, I think, and I think Open Inbound is an exception to this and Aqualift is probably something else again. Rumify, as I mentioned, is Ronald and now some other people who build tourism SaaS products that also happen to be some Drupal modules and distribution, and they wanted to go into that business and they had some very specific ideas about building tourism portals and so on, and so they expressed that in code. Lucas got very frustrated with using HubSpot and decided to build it better and I've played around with it a little bit. It is super cool. Talk with this guy today. Open Inbound is now inbound marketing for SMEs and it's affordable and it's interesting and he built it all in Drupal Lake. Thank you, it's really cool. You... What's up? No, I genuinely, I'd really, really genuinely think it's cool and Acquia, because we're in this sort of completely the other end of this space, you know, personalization is a really, really big deal and we bought a company that was doing it and we have now made that into something that's really, really worth checking out and so let's talk about some of these products here. Let's talk with Dave Ingram and our primary business is still the cloud platform and the support offerings and so what we have here is we have this running business that's making us money, right? This is the shape that I was running before and we take our cloud platform very, very seriously. Now we have this personalization tool and we wanna, our poll star is digital transformation and digital business and all this new stuff that's coming, right? So Lyft is a product that very, very clearly points to this new world of digital business and we have added that on to our current businesses it's an add-on, it's a cross-sell, up-sell, you can buy it at the beginning of the project, you can add it on later, it's now, the technology is far enough that you can add it to non-druple stuff and you can add it to existing drupal sites and it works quite well. So we built a product that enhanced what we were doing and pointed us to our new goal. So, you know, we're actually like in this case, Akwi is walking the walk of the talk, I'm talking and Lucas pointed out this thing, you know, that selling ours, right, is not really scalable and it's really attractive if you can have a thing that people really want to use and they give you 10 quid, 100 quid, whatever it is a month to use it and then you focus on making that better, right? And you focus on like what's the next feature and how to make it more reliable and how to take it to the next, you know, level of scalability, it's a great model once you get 100 customers, once you get 1,000 customers, right? That's a great way to transform from selling your ours to actually having a much more balanced revenue stream, right? Runeify again and I just want to point out that this is talking about, you know, they use drupal to build this thing that has strictly, utterly, absolutely nothing with drupal. So this is an example of taking this wonderful CMS that we have put together for ourselves and putting it to a really, really good internal purpose. Oh, on the way, I think they've done it right, they've open sourced a lot of the distro, like that's all nice. But in business terms, we, the community, gave them this fantastic tool set with which they are now able to build these businesses. They don't want to be in the delivering code game and they're certainly not delivering drupal in any way. Their long-term vision is to provide booking solutions and business models on top of those booking solutions and they even say some of the products will be based on drupal and some won't. It doesn't matter, we want the best tool for the job. So Adrian says, given that our goal is not to operate as consultants selling custom development services, we're about providing solutions that meet our customer's needs out of the box and that's a great way to think about building the product. Running a little short on time, but I think we can do this. I'm gonna go really quickly on this one despite the fact that I think this is one of the coolest, coolest, most interesting companies that I've met in a while. So Dominique Dekouman on the right and his business partner Sven Papermans have built this company called Dropsolid and Dropsolid is kind of a drupal agency and they were sick of working for other people in the agency world and they're like, okay, we're gonna make our own company. And they sat down and they put together a vision statement that said, the vision of Dropsolid is to create value, time, and freedom. And that's pretty abstract, right? We're gonna create value, time, and freedom. Because they go on, we miss the freedom as employees to innovate, develop our talents, and contribute. So we look at drupal as a business solution. We don't see code. We see connections between all the people, community, commercial, ecosystem, and users, and so on, working together to make drupal the solution that it is and the solution it provides to businesses. So when they got started, I just wanna paint this picture for a second because I find it really, really fascinating. So they were the agile partner to solve the business need, like they're doing everything right. I'm not teasing them anyway, I'm really serious about it. But so they started their business by building a platform as a service internal tool that they call James the Drupal Cloud Butler, right? And James the Drupal Cloud Butler is, they use it to build experiences more easily and collaborate better internally. So right from the beginning, they built themselves a Drupal tool to do better business. They were delivering websites, right? But internally, they had productized this vision, okay? And on top of James, they have still an internal product called Jenny, and Jenny is a site spinning machine, they call it, right? But the idea is, this is a customer facing tool with which customers can come and spin up their own sites quickly and easily. Allah the old Drupal Gardens, Allah WordPress.com and so on. So now they have an internal product with an external facing product that lets people spin up websites on top of it. Who cares? And when I was at this point in their initial presentation when I met them, I was really at who cares? Because while Drupal Gardens didn't work, and WordPress.com was definitely eating our lunch, and I don't see how you get any advantage out of this, okay? But cool drops. Cool drops is a product built on top of Jenny, okay? So SMEs know that they need personalization and know that they need digital marketing and know that they need analytics and nobody knows how to do it at the low end of the market. And all of us know that we now need it. And suddenly it's affordable and suddenly it's there and nobody knows how to do it. So they sell cool drops to SMEs and they say, hey, you know, and they sell it to agencies who deliver WordPress versions of this now. You know, as a service, you can wipe with label this too. So they deliver a ready to use Drupal website, right? But they sell it as a digital strategy and marketing support package and they sell a certain number and like in a level in multi-layered offering, they sell actual time with actual marketers. Like here, let's build this campaign. Let's look at your analytics from last month. Like that they sell actual expertise on top of analytics, website and everything but they're selling business value. They're saying, hey, you butcher shop, carpenter, auto repair shop, you can now operate digitally. Like you can build your business like the biggest players have until now. Now it happens that they're selling Drupal, right? Cause some of the upsellers like a more powerful site and the fact that it's a Drupal site if anything takes off, if anything gets really interesting, they can spin it straight out of cool drops and Jenny and James and like do whatever they want cause it's still Drupal but they're selling a value vision to people who've never had value vision sold to them before. And this is an amazing white space, it's incredible. Just fantastic idea and they're growing and they're hiring people and they're based in Ghent and I'm really, really deeply impressed with the precision of their vision and execution on this so far. And I think it's a real, real inspiration to us and they're very happy to talk with other people in Drupal about what they're doing. Very, very, very interesting to me. I wanna point out that you can actually sell Drupal and sell coding and sell exactly that expertise that I said you shouldn't. If you productize it, if you're a plan, right? If you're a business modelist, whew, look at all those Drupal agencies that everybody's got too much work and not enough time we can help you out. A Nexus in Costa Rica, sells developer time, team members to capacity, burstable, whatever you wanna call it, to North American Drupal shops. Softescu based in Romania do great projects on their own. They're a great agency, they're great contributors, like thank you, that's all really, really real. They're also, they'll sell you the capacity that you need. They'll sell you code, right? They'll sell you somebody typing for some number of hours in a language of your choice, right? So that is, in my view, productized. Even though I say you can't sell code, I think that they've figured out a way to monetize that and make that an actual product, too. So I need you to admit that. You have to understand your customers' problems, okay? Even if somebody comes to you asking for a website, you really, really need to dig deeper and you need to try and solve the problems that you can discover with them, not just make something shiny for them. You need to figure out what the KPIs are that measure the business impact of what you could build with them, right? So, Megan says this really, really interesting thing. And like the part of it is what keeps the business manager up at night? It is not about choosing Drupal forward press or Adobe, you know? How are they measured? How is this person measured for success in their year? Maybe it's a superior customer experience. Maybe it's creating compelling ways to upsell customers to grow revenue, like Aquilista, right? So if you approach these people and you say, let me show you a Drupal, right? You're having the wrong conversation with them and you're not gonna get very far. You need to figure out what their business goals are. You need to be a partner with them and you need to help solve their problems together with them, you know? And Drupal might not even come up in the conversation, right? Even if you end up building their solution in Drupal, it might just not be important. It might be the fact that you understand what they're doing and you can come to an agreement of what they need and how they're gonna get to where they need to get. So I talked about this situation where I think some people in our community are still selling Drupal and I think you shouldn't and that's not adding enough value anymore and how the bottom end of the market is essentially gone for us. I showed some conceptual, I tried to talk about some concepts about how to move up this value-add chain. Some people in our community who are doing it with the same tools that we have at our fingertips every day and hopefully, you know, giving you some ideas about how you can do this too. This is an advertisement. A friend of mine has started a company that does exactly this sort of strategic thinking and also does communications and so on and they'd be very happy to talk with you about how you could do this or how you can do transformation and so on. That would be cool. So remember that you have to be on the why end of the conversation. That's the big takeaway from Tim. Make sure you're thinking about the why. Lots of super cool people put media materials freely available and licensed online. Thank you to all of these people. You have been accredited. Our closing words from Alex UA. It will be the best thing. It will be the best stuff in the history of stuff. Go do that thing. Go build that thing. Go build the best stuff in the history of stuff. Thank you. That was awesome. Press the button. Love this stuff. Am I on? No, when it goes green. Here we go. You made me now. Thank you very much, Jan. That was awesome. So much to take away from that and Simon Sinek is obviously a legend. We traditionally open this to the floor for questions. So if anyone's got any questions, just drop your hand and Alex will come over. Glamorous assistant. So when you were talking about the planning stage and both your pivoting or not, and all that. A little while ago I saw a really cool video, an MIT professor, with his hoodcopter grown things that he'd taught how to fly autonomously. He explained that the way that they worked out what to do next was to plan, to get exactly how long, five seconds in advance, where they were going to be, but then execute like 50 milliseconds of that plan. And then we plan. Oh, that's okay. That means exactly what. And if you change milliseconds for months, plan the four to eight months further in advance. B-hag. And then what? You know the B-hag. So anyway, that's perfect. So you execute a long time, you plan for a long time. Yeah. Then you execute just a tiny part of that plan and then we, that is perfect. And then you caught on to exactly what I'm talking about. So there's a business concept called the Big Hairy Goal, the B-hag. And so what is it that you wanna be in five years? Or 10 years? That, where could you go? All right. And what does that mean? What do you have to, where do you have to be in two years to be getting there and what do you have to be in a year? Okay. Good stuff. Nice. Fine. What can you do in the next 90 days to get there, right? And 90 days later, you have to see how you work. You know, sprint retrospective, we can call it in our terms, right? Where are you at? And actually, is it still the same? And what do I have to do in these? And so it's exactly what you're talking about. You need to be agile. You need to be realistic. You need to be iterative. You can't sort of just stubbornly, you know, you could stubbornly drive yourself into the ground, but of course, we're smarter than that. Jeff, fight. One more question for them. Who is your coffee up on? Oh, we're done. So there was a company called Habitat, which was a really, really popular furniture company. They did high-end furniture for high prices for expensive people with lots of money. And they no longer exist because Ikea, who basically do the same sort of furniture at a discount price compared to Habitat, in the end, Habitat got bought by Ikea. And now I think they're just websites. That's all the stuff to them. And it's a pattern that as you move up market, you get competitors entering at the low-end of the market who also grow into your space and eat your lunch. Now, the whole eating your lunch thing should sound very familiar, but with WordPress, so I'm thinking how do you protect the low-end of your market which you're not so interested in anymore, in anymore, but if you don't protect, you get eaten. I think that applies to Drupal in a really big way because we're very upscale, but at the same time, Oracle maybe will want a thing for medium-sized companies. Yeah, I see the picture a little bit differently. I said, and it is true, that Wix and Squarespace and WordPress and what have you have taken the bottom of our market. And it's very, very hard for me to picture a way to put together a company today where I could build 5K or 10K projects and consistently and survive. Maybe there's a lot of subtlety to this, but I wonder if it matters because I sort of picture an evolution. I sort of picture instead of up and downwards, what if this is sort of a progression and we're just not going to do that because we, Drupal, right, are going to power native apps and because we work really, really well behind Ember and React and because we can power chat box and because we can be the API provider for web services, which is the next explosion with the internet of things and what have you, the fact that Drupal 8, does anybody know, because you could know, what my favorite feature of Drupal 8 is? There's one and it's one check box. It's my favorite feature in all of Drupal 8. Paragraphs is really cool. Paragraphs is really cool, but my actual favorite feature of Drupal 8 is that any view can be a rest. And that means if you know how to use the Drupal UI, you can build APIs and web services. So Drupal's really good at consuming data and it's now really, really good at outputting data and you know how to build a view because you build Drupal websites. You now know how to build a web service and build a business based on data, right? And that view can feed an app or a, you can sell movie, whatever it is, movie-less things, weather reports, mathematical formulas based on your, knowing how to pull other data together and then put it together. So we have the opportunity to do amazing new things that very few people, you know, very few other projects, like open source, whoever, we have incredible tools that can allow us to move into these other spaces. And I still will probably build websites for my local school or charity or my own user group. But as of, I don't know if it matters that that piece of the box is, I mean it's very, very competitive, right? So being eaten from the bottom, at the end of painting yourself in the road, and that we're not doing that. How should we do that? Give them a loud P. Even though we don't use it, we should make Drupal incredibly easy to install and incredibly easy for the first 10 years. Somebody's doing that. Wait, who was in Davos? What was the guy's name who was there? There is a nonprofit here in the UK that's building like a simplified Drupal, that's basically Drupal with an installation wizard. And they're literally going to places like the Congo where you'll have a petrol station, which is shack 100 miles from anything with petrol and glass bottles. But they have an internet connection. They have wireless internet. And so these people are online in some form. They might have never touched a computer. And there's this, I'm gonna have to look it up. Martin quested exactly. He did this amazing presentation at Drupal Mountain Camp about these installation wizards and these simple people where people who've never used a computer before and hour later they have a Drupal site. And that fulfills exactly our classic mission of enabling less technical users to use the stuff that we can code by putting all the power in the UI, take it to a new level. And so actually a vision like that is a way for us to, I don't know if it's the lower end, but it certainly helps us fulfill some really, really important communication missions in the world and maintain the origins of our project. Martin quested, yes. I forget what the organization is called, but he's on Drupal.org. He's doing, it's all in Drupal 7 right now, but they promised me a Drupal 8 release later this year. We're gonna have to say thank you so much. There's so many questions and we can get out of there. Thank you.