 Hello, everyone. I hope you can hear me. Thank you for joining our webinar here today. And I want to just begin by saying good morning, good afternoon, good evening, all depending on your location because I'm glad to see there are people from all over the world in our midst here. It's my privilege to welcome you all and from all corners of our planet. I'm Karen Brandon. I'm a senior editor and communications officer at the Stockholm Environment Institute in our center here in Oxford, England. And then with we adapt, which we run out of our center. I'm delighted today to introduce you all to our organizations, to the remarkable group of panelists we've assembled around our virtual roundtable, and to the issues that will be exploring today. As you know, how to foster a just adaptation. So just at the stage, just let me say I think that the essence of today's discussion could be distilled into a single sentence. Climate change affects everyone, but it does not affect everyone equally. If only the ways to dress this could also be so simply put, so simply devised and so simply executed. But of course the issues that are related to this are complex and interwoven. And as you know, adaptation itself is an amorphous and evolving thing. The world is urgently in search of ideas and answers. And we have to find ways to mitigate climate change and to adapt to its unavoidable impacts. And crucially, at the same time, we must find ways to do this without taking actions that merely shift the risk to someone else or someplace else, particularly to those who are the least equipped to cope. Or to simply leave the problem, which is only going to grow to subsequent generations. The task is large, as was formally underlined earlier this month by the synthesis report of the first global stock hold of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. That's sort of a report card on our progress toward Paris Agreement goals. The report issued a call for systems transformations that are necessary to create conditions for just resilience. It underlined the need for a step change in action, in collective action by all. Of course, you don't need to read an official document to understand this kind of thing. We're witnessing it. It seems every day. We've all been horrified by the regular headlines as well as the weather ricochets between extreme drought and extreme flood. And we witness fires and storms of historic proportions. And then, of course, the human tragedies in their wake. Addressing these challenges really is the central mission of our times. Every additional increment of global warming increases the risks. And there's no single endpoint when a community can be declared fully resilient. That means, unfortunately, we can never say mission accomplished. So how then can the world ensure that just resilience emerges at this time of escalating risk? What are the hallmarks of measures that can help the most vulnerable groups and can ensure that their voices are heard? How can sharing and learning from adaptations, successes and failures help support the change needed? Well, these are the questions we're asking today. We're asking our expert panel to address. And in a way, we're asking all of you and our audience to think about these things too. I want to begin by saying a few introductions. I hope you know our two host organizations, but just in the event you haven't formally been introduced, SEI is an international nonprofit research and policy organization. We tackle environment and development challenges with striving to connect science and decision making to help develop solutions for a sustainable future for all. And we adapt is SEI's pioneering collaborative platform and network on climate change adaptation issues. Its goal is to give practitioners and researchers and policymakers and regular people from all walks of life access to credible, high quality information and opportunities to connect with one another and learn from one another. If I were going to summarize SEI's mission, it would be from the strap line we have right there on the page, learn, share and connect. When we adapt began 16 years ago, it was a true pioneer is on the meeting edge of executing a concept that people could have their own global network to learn from one another about adaptation issues. And today with this event, actually we're pioneering a new era of knowledge exchange. This is the first in what we intend to be a series of ongoing discussions that we will host about climate change adaptation practices and research. And the platform itself is undertaking upgrades that are now in progress that will help it to harness state-of-the-art technology and to make it more responsive to users needs. And of course, of us all achieve the mission of fostering adaptation to climate change. So as embarking on this new effort, I am so grateful to the group assembled here around their insights and to learn from their wealth of experience. I want Ada Camilla. She is head of the climate change for the end development program. Welcome, Sri Lata. And a warm today, Pira Wan, Wang Mathisa Thothorn, who is of the Asia Indigenous Peoples' Path. Welcome. We have rotation for the South African Presidential Climate Commission. Well, Pira is a blogger who is a research associate at SEI and also works at Borders Partnership. And from our office, Sukena Barwani, and a founder of WeAdapt. Welcome to all of you. The world's now of iPhones and iPads. And WeAdapt is an organization that founded signature in the distinctly communal we, opportunity to tap and share the knowledge, experience, and insights of those. So I, as we get started, I'm putting a question to Q&A, I believe. And it is, we're going to ask you, what are the key and what are the key ingredients for just adaptation? Submitted as many answers as you want. We don't want to limit your creativity. You will be helping to generate a word cloud of your answers that we'll later in the session when we have a Q&A. One last thing before I exit the brief guide to the events. Sri Lata will kick things off with a keynote speech and then eat questions. We're urging you to ask questions and you should be able to put them in the give it a thumbs up. So we'll know that there's a lot of interest in that subject. We'll have Q&A following the presentations and we'll hit you up again in the more of your insights and then Sri Lata will let you wrap things up. I'll try to keep us to schedule for Oxford all over town. We have ancient towers that toll the passage. And unfortunately I cannot commandeer them, but there are other that you know the universal disposal and that's this and that's the bicycle belt. And if things are going a little bit long, I'll just let you know someone wants to overtake over to you. Thank you very much Karen. There was a lot of breaking up as well. I don't know if it's the same as I speak. Colleagues, let me know if you're also experiencing the same issues when I speak, then perhaps we all get off the video. Okay, glad to hear it's better. I think Karen, maybe if you can check your bandwidth on your side and then we adapt as we go. Firstly, thank you. Thank you all so much. Thank you to SCI and thank you to Weadapt for hosting this global seminar on such an important topic. I'm honored to have been asked to deliver this keynote. I'm pleased to open the discussion around the subject matter that is so important and so urgent, fostering just adaptation in the face of escalating climate risks. And they indeed are escalating and Karen referred to this, the IPCC IPCC sixth assessment report, which was released earlier this year. According to that, the earth is now about 1.1 degrees Celsius warmer than it was in the 1800s. And with this, we are seeing widespread rapid changes in our atmosphere, our oceans and other ecosystems. And of course, we are seeing weather and climate extremes in every region of the world, bushfires and storms, heat waves and now in the headlines practically every day. Less dramatic, but equally dangerous are the slow onset events, sea level rise, ocean acidification, land degradation, and many more. And many vulnerable communities deal with the GAN as part of their lives and livelihood making. And these lives of being lost, livelihoods being destroyed, economies are taking a hit. And climate change, as we know, is exacerbating all other crises. And there's what now we term a poly crisis, you know, coming together or from health and planetary and other crises coming together. And in all of those that are already most vulnerable or disproportionately affected, including those communities in the world's least developed countries, the small island developing states, and fragile and conflict affected communities and contexts. Essentially, those that are least responsible for climate change and for driving this. And the IPCC also says that around 3.3 to 3.6 billion people today live in contexts that are highly vulnerable to climate change. And this is what we're facing now with 1.1 degree Celsius of warming. What is in store if we reach 2.5, which is what appears on track for if we looked at current nationally determined contributions and commitments. It's urgent, then we adapt. However, it's also imperative that we do it in a way that is just, that we pursue adaptation that is inclusive, adaptation that not just reaches, but involves, engages communities, adaptation that is fair, that is equitable. Ultimately, our challenge and especially for us in the UN development program as a mandated agency committed to advancing the sustainable development goals. We want to ensure that adaptation is advancing sustainable development and we want to ensure no one is left behind. And how do we ensure that there's a few principles that we can think of that I'd like to share? Hopefully we get reflections that add and expound on this. But a few of them that we can think about in advancing just adaptation, one is inclusivity and participation. Vulnerable communities must be active participants and owners in priority setting, designing, implementing adaptation action. The traditional knowledge, indigenous knowledge, local wisdom, these are invaluable resources that, yes, combined with science is an effective way to think about climate resilience and adaptive capacities. And we need to shift from this notion of communities and marginalized groups as passive recipients of assistance to agents of change that know best how to transform their own lives. They understand the realities and contacts best. And I think that is foundational to just adaptation. A second principle is around equitable resources allocation. Adequate resources with financial, technological, they need to be allocated in a way that supports adaptation efforts at the local level. Transfer of technology capacity building is really important at the local level. Unfortunately, much of the control of finance still held at national, international levels. And there needs to be more efforts in how we do all decision making and financing. And we need to ensure that groups that normally face structural exclusion, women, youth, disabled, ethnic minorities, indigenous people are playing lead roles in influencing and helping execute financing for climate action. Third is the principle around gender equality. We know climate change disproportionately affects women. It exacerbates existing gender inequalities. Adaptation measures at the least need to be gender responsive, but ideally gender transformative that help empower women in their communities. And we leave behind adaptive capacities because we know that climate change risks evolve. They're uncertain. So adaptation is not once and done. It's capacities that need to iterate and evolve over time. So on that final principle, it would be around investment in education capacity building, raising awareness, building adaptive capacities to vulnerable communities that empowers individuals to make informed decisions and take adaptive actions. These are a few of the what I think are vital ingredients. I know the discussion today will be rich and we'll discuss many more. One final thing I want to touch on before in my keynote and return to the discussion. And that is that adaptation is a dynamic and evolving process. And to navigate this process effectively, we have to build resilience of communities. We must be prepared to learn. And that is learning both from our successes and equally importantly, learning from our failures. And we can't shy away from acknowledging what's worked, what's not worked. And we need to use this to again, iteratively influence decision making, policy making, and then investment planning and investment and implementation. And as platforms like we adapt that we as practitioners, but also policymakers and communities, we can exchange information best practices and lessons learned. And we can help scale up successful adaptation efforts, particularly lessons also that we learn at the local level and listening to those voices of what worked and what did work. So in closing, let me just say my climate change is a global challenge that demands a collective action, a whole of society approach. But ultimately this needs to be guided by the principles of justice and equity and the imperative of leaving no one behind. At UNDP, we strongly strongly committed to this pledge. It's a central transformative promise for the 2030 agenda for sustainable development and our alignment to support the Paris agreement. And I hope that like the concept of just transition, the concept of just adaptation, becomes more and more part of the shared language around climate action. So I very much like looking forward to hearing all the all the diverse and excellent panelists. And I thank you again for welcoming me here and look forward to the conversation. Thank you all. Thank you so much for those thought-provoking comments. I'm just turning. I'm so sorry we are having to adapt to coin a word to our technical problems with our Wi-Fi here today. It isn't just a problem in the global south apparently. But thank you for those comments and especially I take the point that every adaptive effort is an opportunity to learn from the results that follow. So moving on, I'll turn things over now to Pirawan. Let's hear your presentation. Can you hear me clearly? Perhaps speak up a bit. I'm struggling to hear you, but again it might be our technology here. Okay, please let me know if my system is clear or not okay. Yes, I hear you very well now and I hope others do too. Okay. Good evening everyone from Thailand. I'm representing my organization Asia Agenus People Pack and today I would like to share about our how to say narrative about just adaptation and with Agenus People what do we understand and what are our challenges. I would like to start with our relationship with the nature, our territory and resources. So this is like really part of our life system like since we were born until we die our life is related to our natural resources and it's not only sort of the food, well-being, energy source like that or our health but it's also related to our spiritual part, our culture that is established from our close relationship with nature. So the way we see the nature is not like we own it but in the different way we respect it and even if we want to use it we have to get the permission to use it and we also have the system how to use it wisely and sustainably. So we always make sure that the resources will be sustained to our next generation that are able to live according to the basic human rights to access to this environment. So you can see like Agenus People we are taking care of 22 percent of the earth's surface and also the 80 percent of the remaining planet by those things. That's why we are really dependent on the natural resources and in the same time we also know how to manage and use it even though through the time that had changed the climate had changed but we also try to survive and adapt to this change at the local level. So here I just give you some example of the forest management in Thailand where the women are using their indigenous knowledge as well as the GPS mapping not to identify the land territories and where they can find the herbal medicine, where they can find the food and also the the color that we make the clothes now. These are also located in the forest and in that we also manage the fire break every year when it's happened. So everyone will come together and making the fire break to protect from the how to say the forest fire that happened. It's more intense lately because of the climate change. There are more droughts that happening and at the local level we are the ones who have to take the first action at the ground not like how to say it's very calm slow when it comes to the support from the government or other agency. So the first one who take the action at the ground is us indigenous people and I think what to say is not women also holding the crucial knowledge. Just give example even though there are changing of the climate there are increasing of diseases for the plant or the pest like that but we indigenous women we do the seed banking and everyone will keep a different diverse seed that can cultivate in different year and we will decide the women will decide like which kind of crop that can plant in this year and which area that will be good for the planting of Asia and the way we're doing it will not preserve is in the kind of the plastic or the how to say like to keep as like a museum but it's more like the way we do practicing is in our daily life everyone sharing the seed when the season of planting is coming. So in overall you can see like we are only six percent of the global population but we account for the 90 percent of the extreme work and giving the condition in Asia through third all indigenous people live in Asia and only five countries in Asia that recognize the term of indigenous people and when your right is not recognized that means it's difficult to assert your right or claim for your rights. So in Asia a lot of human right violation happening due to the non-recognition that you can see like a lot of human right violation especially on the killing to protect our land a lot of our indigenous people lost their life to protect the land territory and sausage and different forms of human right violation that we have to experience in the ground even though how to say we try to protect that but the law and regulation are the one who killing us and the corporate that coming more and more to our land and territory. Apart from that there are also limitation of indigenous people data if you checking in the law policy about indigenous people in Asia you hardly find the data or the referring about indigenous people in the policy of the government in the asia country you can use your 10 figures can count already like how many states that mention about indigenous people rights and also the role and contribution of indigenous people in the term of climate change adaptation or climate change mitigation. And as I say there is no adequate solution for adaptation because when your rights is not recognized you will not able to be part of any processes or decision making and there also no information about you then when the government decide or develop something they don't have the information about us that's why the everything is planned and developed is based on the central level from the table the desk that they did and then just apply all the plan and action to address the climate change issue at the ground without us involvement in the decision making and developing all the processes what are the plans happening we are the one who really know the situation and what is our priority but we hardly part of that and especially for the indigenous women we are how to say experienced different kind of human right violation and as a woman also you are putting more the layer of human right violation that from the culture system the belief system you also be excluded for the decision making and the human right violation also happening to indigenous women as we are the one who have to how to say access to these natural resources and we have to go further when there is a no water resources we have to go farther and then sometime we experience the sexual harassment or rape not poison that women who have to go further to fight the water or for the food due to the climate change many of our seed and plant are disabled and number of time like the leadership of women has never been counted and it's not women have done a lot of the work in the ground to able to fight with the climate and also adapting to that but our role and contribution has never been shown we only are seen as the victimized or beneficiary and our knowledge is not really counted when you look into different policy you hardly see the policy that mentioned about the indigenous knowledge at part of the adaptation solution okay so how to ensure that our we have the just adaptation I think Miss Silata has mentioned number of a recommendation already so I would like to reiterate again that to make sure that we have the just adaptation the first thing our rights indigenous people right has to be in the call so human rights based approach has to be applied for anything that related to not only on the climate but other development plan and secondly indigenous people are the rights holder so you should see us as the partnership now and also you should promote our indigenous people adaptation or any initial project or plan that you want to do with us we should come together and make decisions together and develop things together so that is really how to say you can treat us as same equally as you our knowledge we also holding different knowledge so I think better to collaborate and work together don't put us just only as the beneficiary group or the victims group please see us as the agent of change so that we can uh doing the just adaptation together and I think it's had been mentioned about the funding when you're talking about the climate fund is not only how to say coming especially for the indigenous people you can see the number of research has has mentioned already that less than one percent that come to indigenous people so it would be good that the direct fund is coming to the indigenous people so that the people action in the cloud can be uh how say strengthened now and I think for the researcher and those who doing advocacy work uh there should be the data description more about indigenous people so you really can see who is left behind when it comes to the sustainable sustainable development or conservation or the climate change solution you can see like who can be part of this solution and the work plan of the government also can be guided by the uh how to say the policy or the briefing paper that you produced so this thing has to be included in in when you're doing some documentation now and I think more importantly indigenous people should be part of the sun making so we should be involved and participate in all level we should not be invited just because of for the sake of for the name of to have indigenous people but our voice and our uh how to say uh idea should be recognize our message and our issue should be clear and heard and putting into the action no uh I think uh sorry yeah almost done so I think one one of the major thing is the we need the good government because even though we have uh good law and policy but implementation is really very weak so we have to ensure the government because a lot of corruption is happening that's why the support that has to come to the community level is not people it's really uh how to say come to us no so in the end I would like to end my message like don't see us at uh vulnerable but we are resilient and we are ready to work together with you so our right should be put at the center and also our word no less should be recognized thank you thank you so much for that powerful presentation that reminds us of all the important things that indigenous communities have to offer and should be should be uh brought into the whole adaptation process I'm going to move now to south africa desigan are you there and ready for your presentation when you are yes thank you very much thank you current and uh good morning still in my time to everybody uh and it's really nice to be here and that was a very sobering presentation and I think there's plenty that we're going to discuss during the q&a time just a few thoughts first a reflection on where we are I think we all got pretty enthusiastic in 2021 when the first installments of the ipcc ar6 report came out and there were wonderful reactions from various countries there was a superb unga that here there was a lot of reinforcement from the world economic forum and from then we had a big expectation from cop26 and I think some people will agree with me that we've been a little bit behind and falling down a slippery slope since then and we really need to get right back up if we look at the big events this year the climate ambitions summit alongside the unga if we look at the pushback campaigns that are coming from the fossil fuel empire as I call it uh we are in a little bit of trouble around climate change and what that means for adaptation is really two things one is it's going to be a much longer road than I think many of us planned for it to be and the second is we're going to need to adapt to much harsher conditions than we were planning to so for a while we will continue to dream this dream of course for a while we thought we were looking at a ceiling of 1.5 and we should keep working towards that but as Shulata said that has drifted to the 2.7 it's now above three we're looking at four and some people are even talking about six degrees above pre-industrial levels which will be absolutely devastating so let me talk about just resilience and in particular just adaptation from a South African context so in South Africa the just transition framework talks about three pillars as it's called principles and some of this has been spoken to already it certainly is there in the SEI paper in a slightly different form but let me talk to them much more succinctly so the first is engaging the pillar of procedural justice the SEI paper and the European policy is also talking about recognition as part of that and this is around the inclusivity that is needed around organizing for first empowering people to be part of the decision making and then making the decision together the first part is really important and often forgotten the actual empowering of the people to participate and the long-term goal of this is not just the short-term decisions that we need to make and they're very big decisions that we need to make but this should be the building blocks of what an inclusive climate governance model can be going forward because this is something we're going to have to deal with worth for a very long time and we need very sound and robust governance that is in part insulated from some of the other things in the fluctuating environments around that around the economy around in certain cases the political environment the second is the issue of distributive justice and distributive justice has to acknowledge a few things to be practical the first of those things is that all things are not going to be covered the choices that we have to make around climate adaptation like the choices that we are making already around mitigation will organize for the repurposing of the majority of the economy hopefully and the majority of the people participating in that economy but not all there is an element of collateral damage that we have to plan for and we have to have contingency around the second is that there are short-term high carbon losses inside the system there is a high dependency on the high carbon economy there is a dependency on the high carbon infrastructure that dominates most of our landscapes and the switch to climate resilience both in terms of infrastructure as well as organizing for an increase in the mitigation means there are going to be losses and we have to plan for that but the core driver around it and I'm reflecting both on what Trilata said and more intensely what Purwana said is the notion of equity has to be engaged equity not just equality and inclusiveness but equity to organize for the beneficiation base around the benefits of climate change and climate adaptation to go to those that need it more than others while organizing for the machinery of the economy to continue to be robust the second thing that we have to engage is the issue of the timetable for a while we were talking about adaptation as a short-term exercise of a couple of years this is extended now to a couple of decades and I think we're quite fear in our minds that adaptation may well be a multi-generational project and if it is going to be that then our planning regimens our MER needs to be quite different from the way we've been talking about it before and then we have to include inside this this particular pillar of distributed justice how we're going to deal with the fact that almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world sometimes in the same place more than once we are dealing with disasters on a very regular basis with very high intensity and this is something we have to come to terms with as well as what it means around loss and damage and how we accelerate that effort the next thing I want to put into the pot is the issue around the third pillar and this pillar is a little bit controversial but I think it will find resonance in most places in the world and that's the notion of restorative justice the reality is that through various pathways but a couple of dominant ones we are now living in a world that is incredibly unequal and that incredible inequality has to be dealt with we need to organize for this just transition to a climate resilient world to be able to deal with these inequities that come out of our past and out of our history in a way that leaves us better off than we have been before because this inequality is not only global it's also regional and it is very very local so the whole notion of restorative justice has to be a fundamental planning pillar around our interventions the second is engaging the opportunity you know I'm going to misuse that phrase again like many other people have but wei ji which is the chinese phrase for crisis has the way part which is the danger part but we should also think about unpacking the g part which is the opportunity can we use this journey to climate resilience as the tool to accelerate development all around the world and in the short term in particular maybe with an extended timetable to be able to deal with the SDGs and intern the development objectives that many in the developing world have and the SDGs have a difficult report card that was just presented at at UNGA this year UNGA 78 and we're sitting in a situation seven years away from the target point midway in the stream with less than 25 percent of our targets being met we have half the time left to get 75 percent of the targets including the difficulties of the last mile maybe maybe this higher investment in climate resilience in a more robust climate change response in a greater convergence around the need to do it and with high investments we'll be able to engage not only the issue around moving to a lower carbon more livable world but also one that has universal access to all of the basic needs that all of humanity needs and then the further development objectives particularly of developing countries as I said before let me spend the last minute talking about two things because there are some very big challenge issues that we have to engage one I think we are quite clear that climate change itself particularly for adaptation does not have as robust an investment case to organize for us to be able to get to where we want to be so the link between the adaptation and the developmental objectives inside the system including the possibility of moving to smarter more productive industrialization pathways is something that we have to engage it's a complicated algorithm and perhaps in the Q&A I will talk about an example from my part of the world around how we're trying to engage that and then the last thing I want to put into the pot is that we have to engage in a whole new era in a whole new investment in global solidarity and one of the things that sticks out like an absolute sore thumb is the issue of forced mobility there are millions of people and the IOM says we're going to go up to 2 billion people on the back of environmental degradation that will be in the realm of forced mobility by 2100 the current way migrants are being treated in the world all over the world has to have a serious relook chair on that note let me pause and I look forward to the Q&A thank you so much for those thought provoking ideas and I'm intrigued by that that idea of wagee as you said the idea that the fact that we face so much danger might be our way to find opportunities to do something better Sunkina would you like to go next we come back to the UK before we head on up to Sweden okay perfect thank you Karen so I'll take a slightly different tack to what's been discussed so far and I wanted to in the sort of wake of talking about the value of indigenous knowledge and local communities and what we can share what we can facilitate in terms of knowledge exchange and sharing I as we adapt can coordinate I'm obviously going to talk a little bit about we adapt and what we are learning from the community sharing knowledge on we adapt so the first thing is we on we adapt who for some of you who know that know the community of practice we're very much about sharing lessons learned and avoiding the term failure because obviously every every challenge is a learning opportunity basically and we're finding that this learning is happening offline with communities and within peer groups as much as it is online so hopefully this presentation will sort of reflect on many of the sort of points that Trilata and Designa and Pirawan have already shared as Karen mentioned this webinar marks a new era of knowledge exchange for we adapt and this webinar is actually in direct response to a lot of feedback we've received from our users and it also heralds a new version of we adapt that will launch this later this year so I'll hopefully provide a sneak preview of that if we have time for those of you who don't know we adapt it's an online space for anybody from researchers practitioners and planners to advisors policy makers and businesses as well as individuals to learn share and connect on practical and up-to-date information on climate change adaptation as well as the relevant science our systematic approach to knowledge exchange helps helps these users to compare and assess thousands of projects going on around the world facing similar challenges and to learn about potential solutions accessing credible and high quality information within the we adapt community for us it's really essential it's really essential that we're also helping marginalised groups and hard to reach areas also connect to our knowledge our ethos is really about amplifying voices in the global south and those of marginalised groups so we're trying to facilitate knowledge exchange in a just and equitable way to help users learn about what from each other what works and what doesn't and how challenges that are addressed and overcome so here I'm going to share a few ways that we have been trying to do this to talk about some feedback we have received and to reflect on how we can improve this going forward and hopefully address some of the things that Perawan mentioned when we think about good practice in knowledge management and knowledge growth creation generally in the climate change adaptation space one of the things we need to consider is that historically climate change has been understood through the world of climate science and this has helped shape what is perceived as trusted knowledge but the growing movement around the decolonisation of research and practice also extends to knowledge management and in this realm it aims to challenge and transform the way that knowledge is created organised disseminated particularly in contexts where power structures have historically shaped knowledge systems so this really means confronting structural elements of injustice around knowledge brokering and knowledge sharing so obviously in the online space this means that we're really trying to challenge these power structures by fostering inclusivity promoting more equitable ways of creating and sharing and valuing knowledge especially in these contexts of post-colonial and marginalised spaces this often challenges the dominance of western knowledge paradigms and encourages a more inclusive approach that values diverse ways of knowing and diverse knowledge systems and in particular the decolonisation of knowledge management recognises epistemic injustice which really refers to the unfair distribution of knowledge and the devaluation of certain knowledge systems often those of indigenous peoples and marginalised communities so here you can see the various generations of knowledge management that have progressed over time moving towards more holistic integration of knowledge and transdisciplinary knowledge co-production and co-creation in the fifth generation of knowledge management and now we're moving towards the sixth generation around the decolonisation of knowledge and if you're interested in any of this work I urge you to look at the work of Sarah Cummings and Boyce to learn more about this but then these considerations are also compounded by other barriers that our communities of users face in accessing knowledge firstly there's too much information often leading to sort of information overload and then in addition to this information is not organised it's fragmented and it's distributed and not organised and this often results in redundancy, replication and siloed knowledge so as mentioned our vision for the platform has always been to foster inclusivity and share lessons learned and to measure our effectiveness we do all the usual things that you would expect a platform to do to check if we're doing things right we monitor our analytics we have a theory of change but as you know I think as we all know numbers can rarely tell us how information is being used and for what end so to address this and to understand if we are in fact doing things for which there is a need and an impact and if we are reaching those we are trying to reach we needed to talk to users and talk to our communities so to understand better whether we're actually doing the right things as opposed to just doing things right we created a survey and we got quite a lot of useful information but to understand what we should be focusing on and whether we are actually how you know to basically gather evidence for what are the right things to be doing and what we should be prioritising in the coming years when the needs for learning from each other about adaptation are so urgent we conducted some interviews with our users and here in this what we call an impact story map is where we are visualising some of these insights which describe direct and indirect outcomes users have reported from using WeAdapt including strikingly how learning from adaptations successes and challenges is quite significant so there's quite a lot of insights I can share about this but I just want to touch on a few and I encourage you to look at our impact story map if you're interested in more of the details so in terms of raising awareness and promoting adaptation practice WeAdapt has been used to increase the awareness of many different groups and communities including youth and adults in a variety of sectors and contexts and members have reported that WeAdapt helps them stay up to date with the latest research as well as helping the community learn from each other and that's a given and that's obviously part of our mission but we're also very conscious of making all of our content as accessible as possible and providing it in a synthesised and easy to digest format so members have described using WeAdapt because it's very simple it's easy to use it very much uses understandable language and because it is based on real-life cases so we have evidence that members are using WeAdapt for training their local communities within agriculture for example students young women and girls and internally displaced people in a range of settings from high schools and summer camps to youth engagement boot camps and train the trainer workshops so that's been very encouraging to hear and in the transition from awareness raising and capacity building to actual planning and implementation a key characteristic mentioned by many members relates to the huge degree of the huge geographic spread of the cases on WeAdapt which allows a large degree of exchanging of lessons learned and many projects and initiatives are being inspired by activities taking place elsewhere and are being tailored and modified to more suit the local context so one really nice example of this is a high school teacher in Tanzania who we spoke to mentioned using ideas shared by others and other people in other regions from our newsletter and looking at projects focusing on afforestation and reforestation and organic farming to help develop new projects on adaptation in his own village encouraging other people to get involved planting trees and so on and he was later inspired by adaptation projects shared from WeAdapt in other parts of the world facing similar climate risks to move into aquaculture as well so some really practical examples that we came across in the interviews and lastly just very quickly to say that connecting with other users and organizations peers and other sort of people working in similar areas directly or indirectly is a big part of the user sort of need and demand but issues around poor connectivity especially in the global south are obviously very clear and what we've been hearing from interviews is that even with these constraints the platform has been used where possible to increase access to information for marginalized groups so several members noted the value of the newsletter again because it can be downloaded and read offline when internet connectivity or electricity access is not available and a lot of respondents know to doing this for their local communities and for youth groups and so on so just a touch very quickly on how this can be supported and what are the values that are part of our vision that contribute to these outcomes how is this embedded in our way of working and how can we also improve to ensure that this approach is as just and equitable as possible so we do already do quite a bit around increasing access to information just because we simply allow anybody to contribute content and we really do encourage the sharing of practical adaptation experience and local knowledge from the ground and we recognize that sometimes boundary actors and partners need to support this type of content sharing but this is possible we offer a lot of training and capacity development in terms of how to do this so geographically this does mean we can try and include hard to reach areas those with limited internet access and those from different socio-cultural contexts and as mentioned we do that the the platform is very much used to download content but what we aim to do going forward is to really improve this through both green and accessible user design so one of the things we'll be doing is making sure that consideration of energy use throughout the site through efficient coding low image resolution and dark mode to support low bandwidth access is a big consideration for us to ensure that everybody can access this content and also making content accessible through consideration of design so through colour fonts contrast etc language translation will be made more visible in the upgrade and more of our content will be made available offline. Thank you, Sukena, perilously close to ringing the bell. Okay, shall I stop there? Yes, now are we all set? Can we Frida, can we go to you in Stockholm now? Yeah, I think that should work. Okay, sorry to cut you off there, Sukena, I know you'll have more opportunity in the Q&A. Just want to make time for everyone. Okay, we try again. There we are, I see your I see your material. Yeah, thank you so much. And you can also hear me, yeah? I can hear you very well. Okay, that's great. So thank you so much for having me here today. We'll talk a little bit about the work me and my colleagues have done on understanding and framing globally just resilience or justice in adaptation for our globalized world and also touching a little bit on what lies on the road ahead. And I think this project of lens itself well and complements the really important works that the colleagues of my spot before on this panel are doing on locally led adaptation, the crucial indigenous perspectives and resource use and diverse knowledge systems. And we're really doing this work with the intention of understanding the dynamics of global connectedness and how it interacts with these with these other types of justice. And so personally, my everyday work is focused on what we call transboundary or cascading climate risk. In a globalizing world countries, economies and the resources that we depend on clearly are closely connected to trade, financial flows, the movement of people and shared by fiscal systems such as river basins or shared ecosystems. That means that talks of stresses in one country can be sometimes made worse. In other countries, thousands of kilometers away. I don't really have to tell you because we've all seen clearly in the past couple of years just how the changing climate is interacting with other types of risk drivers such as the pandemic or Russia's invasions in Ukraine that really had an effect on whole world markets and driving insecurity in world systems, world markets and global geopolitics. Extreme weather events, droughts, floods leading to poor harvest, for example, has been part in ramping up global food prices. The price crisis that we live through today really affecting the poorest people in this world the most, and some regions much more than others. In addition, the tendency towards protectionist measures or forging regional clubs to handle these types of crisis really aggravates the situations and really only highlights the need for understanding systemic and global resilience and makes matters of justice in the decisions of policies, companies and adaptation parameters. So just to illustrate how this works and why we should care and also kind of this adaptation justice and interconnected systems can sometimes feel like a mouthful. I'll start with an example of coffee, the coffee supply chain. Coffee is one of the most globally traded commodities in the world. It's grown predominantly by small-holder farmers who sell their coffee beans to local aggregators or cooperatives and then they sell them on to the world markets and in my country Sweden where I'm currently sitting in the northern hemisphere and we're the most coffee-drinking culture in the world and we absolutely love our coffee but we cannot grow coffee in our own climatic systems and so to adapt to changing climate for our coffee consumption we really have to do it elsewhere, we can't do it at home. Well you could say that we could try and drink something else like herb tea I guess but these effects of shifting demand fundamentally would also really be felt mostly by the small-holder farmers that rely on the cash crop income of coffee farming for their livelihoods. So super shortly coffee is one of the crops that will be severely impacted by climate change. Coffee production is estimated to decline as much as 50% within next decade if measures are not taken to mitigate the risks affecting basically all major coffee producing regions in the world. So this picture shows an analysis of climate change risk embedded in coffee exports of the Arabica bean where Brazil is both the largest exporter of the bean and then also the largest contributor to the climate risk industry system. The other largest bean for exports is the Robusta bean and we're also Vietnam and Indonesia are two countries that are severely impacted by climate change in the coffee production and also contributes a lot to the world trade. And so going back to to the ground the effects of cloud change and coffee production really have mostly consequences for the 60 million people who are directly employed in the international coffee supply chains. Farmers may experience declining yields, declining quality and thus less revenue from their work in a warming world and even lose their livelihoods. 80 percent of coffee farmers worldwide are small-holder farmers cultivating areas smaller than five hectares and are particularly vulnerable that they often don't have the financial resources to absorb shocks or purchase additional agricultural inputs and also depend heavily on rain-fed agriculture. And as we've been discussing in the seminar, as with mitigation adaptation can lead to unequal and unjust outcomes and some actors may take advantage of the urgency of adaptation to illicit power or economic gains of other expenses especially in these kind of large global supply chain systems. But often negative consequences are unintended. The most affected and most vulnerable actors in these supply chains than at risk to simply be abandoned in the pursuit of what some would call increased resilience, really making supplies and supply chains less climate risky. And without the liberate approaches to justice in these systems where local actors are included in decisions around that effect them, we really risk to lose our thoughts from the local and contextual knowledge and adaptation opportunities that really is brought up from the ground. So this is why we've developed a framework, a analytical framework that we are working with to understand justice and adaptations in an interconnected world and to leverage efforts for globally just resilience. So we have justice on the vertical axis prioritizes the pursuit of justice, both distributive and procedural, also underpinned by recognizing justice as explained by Mr. Desigan before. And on the other axis, the horizontal one connectedness captures the degree of which adaptation actions account for the broader systems and structures beyond the place of sectors in which they occurred, as exemplified in the coffee case. Achieving globally just resilience requires addressing both of these dimensions together, justice and connectedness, but neither is all or nothing. Incremental steps can also make adaptation more globally just of a time. I think that considering cascading or transboundary climate risk really complicates our understanding of just resilience. But in a world where multilateral cooperation is on the threat from nationals and the populisms, these questions on how can countries join forces to identify and manage shared risk, rather than increasing tension becomes even more important. I think inequality, wide and some people all of the world feel increasingly left behind. Also the question of how can we reduce climate risk and vulnerability for all instead of redistributing it from one country and other becomes also crucial. I think that previous approach has to frame justice and adaptation focus primarily on justice within an individual community or country and this is such important work. But for some systems, commodities and actors, adaptation is really tied to these global interlinked supply chains and are controlled or driven by large international actors. We then need also a way to consider how justice might be achieved between communities and countries, especially when there are differences in vulnerability, capability and power. We've used this framework so far successfully working with the UN Global Compact for their Just Transitions Think Lab, discussing these issues with multinational corporations and international organizations. We are also currently working on better understanding the dynamics and interlinked risk between transboundary and climate risk and what measures are effective in supporting globally just resilience. Just as a last comment, I think that there are both challenges and opportunities in this work that we are all engaged with. I can clearly see an increased traction and interest in these issues on justice and adaptation and also in global systems from diverse actors from national authorities to multinational companies to local partners. We are in a challenging geopolitical landscape where we both see an increased openness and some radical processes that are really pointing towards more justice, but also obviously the offices. I'm really looking forward to discussing more with you today. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Frida. It's fascinating to think about. We all know we're connected, but it really brings it home when you think about that we're connected just by the coffee in our cup every morning when we have that. While our speakers were talking on these many different aspects of just adaptation, we also have been putting questions to those in the audience. Alicia, I wonder if we could see the word cloud now that their insights into our question have created. Do we have that there, Alicia? Give me a second. I will share. While you're getting that up, I think I'll go ahead and jump in. I wondered if the panelists could talk a little bit about the tension between speeding up the need to speed up so that we can react in time for all the change that's coming and already here, and then expanding equity and inclusivity. When we adopt the democratic processes we want and we include all the stakeholders and partners we need at the table, of course, it seems things happen more slowly because they need more time. I wondered if one of the panelists could talk about that tension and how we should think about those things. Sukena, do you have some thoughts on that? Sure. I can just maybe say that I don't think there's a silver bullet for this obviously. It's something we all grapple with. I feel like some of the approaches to achieving inclusivity and co-creating knowledge and bringing communities on board who need to have ownership of interventions and adaptation actions means that, I mean, there is just such a strong tension there between trying to do that, but it does take time to build that trust, to build those relationships. I think one of the gaps there is actually developing the sort of, it's almost, I think the skills are almost the facilitation skills and the sort of requirements to help design a process that enables the inclusion of these multiple voices. I mean, obviously valuing them and considering them important is a primary thing, but at the end of the day being able to bring different voices together in diverse knowledge types and then help them to co-create a solution together, I think is the way forward, but that does, yeah, as you say, it takes time and it takes a lot of resources as well. Yes, I think Pira Wan's presentation emphasized that too. Desi again, I see you there. Do you have thoughts on this? Yeah, it's a really important question and one that gets, I think, a rather distracting discussion in general. We have been moving too slowly and that is our reality. We had a full view back in 1997 with the Kyoto Protocol of exactly the kind of journey that we had to pursue. We're now sitting there many, many years later with a small inflection point in the form of the Paris Agreement and we still don't have a convergence of the vector from the global community that the direction we want to go in is a low carbon economy direction. So the issue about the speed is that, yes, it is important that everyone is brought on board and yes, it does take time to do that, but I think the fundamentals can be logged in and one of those fundamentals is the global agreement on greenhouse gas emissions. Is the agreement on phasing out fossil fuels? And that would set up the kind of foundation upon which we can build the right kind of rapport in society. There are no elements in society, in particular the currently disempowered people and the poorer people in the world that are punting in favor of a continuance of a fossil fuel economy. So I think we have to register that first. The second thing and I'm quite intrigued by the presentations from we adapt around the democratization of knowledge associated with climate change. And I think this is a really, really fundamental point and we also have to accept that there is a vested interest in not allowing that to happen because the higher the climate literacy is of society, the more and more and more pressure there is going to be around more rapid change in the world. And that vested interest is playing itself out. I mean, folk will now be aware that alongside the movement around greater climate awareness in the world is another campaign in favor of the fossil fuel industry and we have to navigate that ever so smartly. So my bottom line is that we have to get the foundation to a much higher level to start with. And then we can get into the sophistication of the algorithm around speed and carrying everybody with you. Thank you. I want to bring Piro one in too. I'm sure you have thoughts on this issue. Thank you, Karen. I'm not sure how to respond to this because we are at the community level. We've been doing already since a long time. So expecting the speedy action maybe from the other people, we're sharing responsibility together. And of course, you whoever attend this meeting, I think you have the same goal in making sure that the planet will save and our humankind is safe. So different level government has to just to do the action what they agree that they make the promise already in the global level to implement into the national level and to the local level. And I think the most important is put us at the center. Let us to decide what kind of solution that is respond to our needs because right now is still not really respond to our needs. And there are the building block that blocking us from the policy level and the action is never come in time. So the struggling is there. But if I can request government has to make their duty and the people from the global north, you can allocate more for your government to see what are the consequence with the global economy that keep changing that affecting to the people who contribute the less to the climate change. You see what is really affecting us. And individually, you can already do it from your part, how to reduce the carbon emission at our individual levels. And you campaign with your government also to take action what they make agreement at the global level because we feel the pain. We respond to that as much as we can. But this is beyond our responsibility and capacity already. And not slowly the loss and damage is already in front of us already. So adaptation is not that solution anymore. So we have to stop this together. So that is what I can say for now. Thank you. Near the urgency in your voice, I think that's so powerful in and of itself. What you said. Tell me, we have time for just a couple of questions. I wanted to ask one that came up in the chat. It was two days again, but others of you might want to weigh in as well about just could you briefly unpack the distinction between resilience and adaptation and how you would put them in development terms, how they would work into broader economic development. I go to you again first. Sure, I'll be brief on this. And this is the great linguistic debate in climate change, is it not? I mean, my simple view on this is that we're quite clear about what mitigation activities are. And that's around organizing for us to introduce an industrialization pathway, development pathway that is low carbon and moving away from the high carbon. We know what adaptation is. And adaptation is around the reality that we are already in the danger zone. And in order to survive sustainably, we have to have a series of mitigation measures, both physical as well as policy as well as behavioral. And for me, resilience is the collective product of those two that is the index that says whether or not we are sufficiently resilient to climate change to be able to continue to survive as a species. For me, this is how that nesting and that housing works. But I have been in a couple of these discussions with people who love the word play. So I imagine there are many more answers than the one that I've just given. Sukinda, would you like to weigh in on that? I mean, I think does again summarize the sort of it's an ongoing conversation and debate. And there are lots of different interpretations. But I think probably from an IPCC perspective and thinking about climate resilient development. I mean, I think we we now are moving more towards thinking of solutions that are synergistic and have co benefits. And I think climate resilience and climate resilient development is trying to encompass that. So trying to move away from all these sort of semantic discussions and really think about what's behind them in terms of solutions. And I see Frida there as well. Yeah, can you start a perspective from what we were doing, always helping the European Environment Agency to kind of also define just resilience as it's written in the adaptation strategy, working with them to try and understand just the difference. I mean, it is, as you've mentioned, a linguist a bit, and I think it will be ongoing. And it also points to the complexity in adaptation, or justice in adaptation in relation to, for example, the mitigation space. But I think in that work, one reflection was that a benefit of the resilience term is that it brings in kind of the systemic and underlying structural injustices that kind of gets reinforced or shifted through climate change impacts and then also adaptation action that that doesn't take justice into account specifically. So for that reason, just because people understand resilience in that way, broader also maybe encompassing a bit of trajectories or more fundamental change of society or more equal approaches in a way. But yeah. Thanks. I think we all agree that there's that the the challenges are large and looming and there is an awful lot to do and an awful lot of impediments to overcome. But at the same time, I feel that we see things happening. And I was hoping we could end on a note that offers examples of success. I wonder if each of you on the panel could give some kind of example of success that we could all think about building on in some ways. There's something you see in your part of the world or in your part of the research arena or your part of the practice arena that is something you think the rest of others could build on. I see just at the top of my screen there, Des again, would you like to jump in? Sure. Let me offer this. I mean, one of the biggest drivers around very large changes. And I think we're quite clear that we need a seismic shift in our development trajectory in the world is when people fall into dire need. And one example from my part of the world is a very large city in my country that is dependent for 40% of the revenues in that city coming from the automotive industry in quite specifically internal combustion engines. So the survival of that city and the survival of that industry depends absolutely on switching over to non-fossil fuel driven motor vehicles. And that kind of seismic shift is what will shift the whole system. And what has been very encouraging for us is after years of talking to issues around the logic and the science of climate change, the thing that has taken it over the edge is that economic survival. And I think it's a good case study to take around to many other places in the world, places that are far away from that tipping point that can plan a little bit more logically. But those are the tipping points that will take us over into a low carbon economy and the right kinds of adaptation to survive. Thank you. Pirawan. Thank you. Actually, I have mentioned some of our good practices that we are doing in the ground already. So I would like to add one more thing like the land right, land territory and resources right is very the key because without these rights, we will not be able to adapt and combat with the climate change. So this right has to be recognized so that indigenous people, we can continue this collective action together. When there are disasters, we are doing together. We will sharing the labor, we will sharing the resources at the beginning at the right time that is happening. So the community is self self-governance and community mobilization is happening there. But without the recognition of the right of indigenous people that if you block our way to how to say to continue and govern those things and our knowledge that should be continued to transfer to the young generation will not be there if we're not able to manage and govern our own system. So the key is recognize our rights and let we continue our way of life that we can adapt with this climate change and the capacity building that can be at and support us. The external support we still need that but the most important how to build our community resilience and that is we need the right recognition. Thank you. Frieda, I go to you next. Well, I don't think it's a very easy question to answer. It feels like, yeah, there are much of both things, both negative and positive developments. But I think what I see in the work that we do is that when it comes to the private sector, there is a real shift in trying to or really like trying to incorporate risk like climate risk and risk to people in the entire supply chain system, including employees on a local level in a much broader sense, so much more like it's a very encouraging development to see them trying to take on the board in a serious way rather than just in a philanthropic way but also for their own kind of resilience of their own company anyway. So that's I think that's like even if it's going much lower than it would need to go. It's still these actions of such large players that small shifts also can really contribute to really big changes in a way. So I think I would leave you with that. Thank you. And Sukena? I think specifically from our work, I think continuing the sort of democratization as Des again put it of climate information is, it's been really encouraging I think for us to see that information is being used far and wide and particularly at the local level and in marginalised areas with marginalised groups. So I think one of the things that I feel as a community we can add value is to help share this and make connections between the Indigenous knowledge and the science and really trying to connect that knowledge to people on the ground but also allow them to share their knowledge with the global community to try and accelerate that change. Thanks. We've managed to use up all our time but I hope you'll have time to hang around. Sri Lata, do you think you can give us a few final words to take home and take away as we head out again? I'm just looking for some kind of wrap up about what we should think about all the issues that were raised today. Sure. It's a bit of a herculean task after that rich and thoughtful discussion, Karen. And actually before I attempt to maybe a few key things that jumped out for me, I also wanted to share one example of where we do think some of these principles of just adaptation come through and this is the example of a project in Bangladesh and coastal communities, women and girls especially focusing on the idea that there's a lot of internal displacement as sea levels rise and this is in southwestern coast of Bangladesh. And I just wanted to share an example as you were asking other panelists and this one really focuses on sort of the leadership of women and how they plan and implement resilient livelihoods is over a thousand livelihood groups that were created during implementation but consulted right from the beginning with value chain analysis and consultations and capacities and how they can build up assets and collateral and resilience and also engage with microfinance, market development and going back to a question that was asked and innovative finance. And I think for me it's like these kinds of examples that show how much capacity there is already in these communities and any assistance or support that we talk about as an international community when that's really homegrown and directed in a way that allows them to take their own sort of you know they take action. It's really an interesting emerging kind of work and success and they've come up with this Pani Appas which translates to water sisters and they support households also in terms of maintaining rainwater harvesting solutions that were also supported in the project. So anyway I wanted to share that to say that I think there are examples and it's also important for us to share these kinds of successes and lessons to really you know give us more hope and inspiration of what is possible. In terms of a few reflections you know I wrote down a sort of few things as I'm starting with of course what Perawan said it's I think it's fundamental yeah I think the human rights based approach to adaptation has to be you know I don't think it's negotiable when we when we talk about how we adapt and I think it's wonderfully it's powerful to hear you talk about how you don't own nature you know you respect it and how do you relate to it and how do you work with the indigenous knowledge indigenous voices and engagement of indigenous populations and that that effective participation is something that resonated throughout and Desigen you spoke of course of so the procedural justice distributive justice and the principles of equity and I saw from the from the poll equity popped up as the I think more the predominant voice in what what we think is the ingredient I think it's great that we all agree on that at least there's no debate about it but of course it's one of the most difficult things to work on and not not just in the climate space and of course the intersection between what equity means and the intersection of adaptation and development and Desigen you also spoke about that right what what is the opportunity then about using this journey on adaptation to perhaps actually enhance equitable development I think that's a space that's particularly resonates with us as a development agency because again like using climate action and advancing it in a way that's leads to inclusive sustainable development I think that's that was another takeaway and I I didn't talk much about this but Desigen you referred to the sort of the investment case for adaptation I mean you know the global commission adaptation report that came out a few years ago said that if we if we were to invest about 1.8 trillion in areas like early warning land land management and others mangrove restoration the payoff is around 7.8 trillion so there is an investment case for adaptation and that entails a lot of opportunities for livelihoods poverty alleviation you know ensuring that the productivity and assets and income distribution actually benefits and the equitable you know benefits and how benefit sharing has to be part of that I think was an important message and you know what you talked about sort of the knowledge and I actually quite didn't um for me there was a lot of learning in that slide of you know evolution and knowledge systems and how you know the latest one you showed pretty much lands on what Pirawan started with you know it's like yes there is valuation in indigenous knowledge it's not something you kind of you know as an afterthought or at worst you know ignored or devalued I think that's another important thing and then finally this framework of you know both procedural and distributive justice and then moving to this multi sectoral global connectedness that was also presented I think was very reflective of all the conversations so you know just to say I think there were a lot of themes that resonated across a lot of connecting the dots and pointing to different ingredients I also agree I think there's a lot of urgency I don't think I think we know enough about what needs to be done um so I don't need the I don't think it I don't see it as a tradeoff between that urgence and kind of thoughtful action it's really a moment of transformative solutions that cut across adaptation and mitigation biodiversity right I think it's it's that moment and again thank you for my side it was a very very enriching discussion and I learned a lot and thanks again yeah that echoes my thoughts too I feel I learned so much today and you know we're all learning from one another's experience clearly I want to thank we're a little over time but I want to thank you all for staying with us through to the bitter end I thank all our panelists from all over the world the people who attended from all of the world the SEI and WEDAP teams and I if you have a moment before you go please put in the chat something that you'd like to hear us discuss or have webinars down the line on topics that might be beneficial to you because this as I said at the beginning is just the beginning of discussions we'll be having and we want to address things that are of interest and of use to all of you so please do put that in the chat if you have something in mind thanks everyone and hope to see you all soon thank you bye thank you bye bye bye bye thank you thanks Riletta thank you Karen