 Welcome to another show. I am James Swanik, founder of Swanik and the James Swanik show podcast and the alcohol-free lifestyle podcast, amongst other things. And today we're talking about how to stay positive and create positive change. And I am joined by Ms. Dorothy Ilson. How are you, Dorothy? I'm good. How are you, James? I'm doing so well. Thank you for being here. Dorothy is the founder of Needles Eye Media, which is a full-service digital marketing agency. And she's also a fellow podcast host. She hosts Do Well and Do Good. And you're based in Chicago, right, Dorothy? That's right. Tell us a little bit about your life and who you are and what you do. And maybe just wrap that up in what is feeling good and staying positive mean to you. How important is that? I know it's stating the obvious, but what is your viewpoint or how you live your life of staying positive? Yeah, absolutely. Well, so we'll kind of start with today and then I'll take you backwards. So as you mentioned, I do run a digital marketing agency. Specifically, we do Facebook, Instagram and Google paid traffic primarily for digital product businesses. So, you know, businesses that are really looking to scale their customer acquisition with paid traffic. So I got here in a very roundabout way. I actually went, you know, all the way through school with a very kind of stereotypical idea of what a successful career would look like. Love the swannies you just put on, by the way. I'm rocking the swannies here for anyone who's listening. I just put on a pair of, it's a little bit of a fashion show as we're doing this, Dorothy. Well, you know, when I had you on Do Well and Do Good a long time ago, you were kind enough to send me a pair of swannies, which I never get to wear because my fiance, Jacob, commandeered them about two days after they arrived and he wears them constantly. So anyway, but yeah, so, you know, I really, you know, like I said, had just a very kind of traditional view of what a successful career was going to look like. And so that kind of got me on the path of finance and accounting and, you know, long story short, we can dive as far into this as you want. Definitely a lot of positive mindset stuff that comes with it. But two weeks after I graduated, I ended up giving up the accounting job that I'd worked so hard to get and went to go work for a startup instead. And that was really because I had, you know, as cliche as it sounds, discovered personal development. And it really took me down a radically different path. Worked at a startup here in Chicago for about three years after I graduated, and then started the agency. And now I'm blessed to work with, you know, some really incredible business owners, you know, in helping to scale their paid traffic. So in terms of positive mindset, staying positive, you know, I think we could dive into so many different areas, you know, I would say the common thread along every single part of my journey has been relying on the strength of my mindset to push through, you know, obstacles and to, you know, ultimately continue along the path towards what I really wanted. And so that's certainly not to say that I am perfect at this. I think for all of us, it is a constant daily work in progress. But it is something that I believe is the number one key to achieving really anything that you're looking to go after. There's a book named A Beautiful Constraint. Not sure if you've heard of it by Adam Morgan and Mark Barton. And the book in a nutshell really talks about, you know, overcoming obstacles or going around obstacles and the mindset that is required for that. You know, every cloud has a silver lining. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. Constraints, you know, are assumed to be a bad thing, but in reality, they can often be the thing that creates momentum and creates breakthrough. So how have you, where has that shown up in your experience as an entrepreneur and as a, maybe as a wife or maybe as a, you know, just in your life and your health where you've seen an obstacle and rather than even going around or over it, you've actually changed the goal, like even made a bigger goal because there's a way where you can overcome an obstacle to reach your goal. But then there's another process where you can actually just work, oh, this challenge we've got here is helping me create an even bigger, bigger goal. Yeah. Well, so I'll take you back to, you know, after I had worked at this startup, after graduating and, you know, basically the co-founder of that business who, you know, was really a reason I'd been there so long. He ended up leaving and so I knew I wanted to leave too. And, you know, as I was kind of looking around at other jobs, you know, I knew I didn't want something corporate. I wanted, you know, somewhere that I would have the same level of flexibility that I'd enjoyed in my last job. So, you know, I could work remote when I wanted to. I, you know, had a lot of autonomy. And as I started, you know, kind of interviewing places, I realized that it was going to be very difficult potentially for me to find that again. And so I kind of got this idea in my head, you know, you mentioned you find a challenge and you ultimately start to dream bigger. I thought, well, you know, what if I tried to do something on my own? And that was a scary thought, but it was an exciting thought at the same time. And so, you know, basically I, went off on my own. I kind of thought, well, worst case scenario, if this doesn't work out, I'll go get a job. And hopefully we won't come to that. But after a few months, I was really floundering. I didn't know what I was going to do. I had made absolutely no money. I was renting out my apartment on Airbnb to pay the rent. And I was really close to reaching my breaking point of, you know, having to kind of give up on this dream I'd created. And it was really a function of working even harder on my mindset than I was on trying to, you know, figure out a business, right? And, and as soon as I really focused on that, you start to see opportunities, you know, where they didn't exist before. So basically, what happened for me was my old boss, he had a ticket to a workshop with, you know, really an incredible Facebook marketer named Jason Hornung. And he couldn't go. So he offered me this ticket. And, you know, I'd been involved in our paid traffic at that startup. But, you know, starting an agency was really kind of not an idea on my radar. But I went to this workshop. And there, Jason was basically pitching this, you know, $30,000 year long coaching program for people building an agency. Now, I was not building an agency at that time. I didn't have $30,000. I didn't really have $1,000. But I believed in my ability to figure things out. And I believed in my ability to, you know, take each challenge as it came, and, you know, and tackle it with that, that, that mindset that I mentioned. And so I ended up, you know, putting that first payment for Jason's program on a credit card and just leapt without a parachute. And so I think, you know, that experience, you know, it really taught me a lot. You know, I know you actually had kind of a similar experience with Tai Lopez and joining his program. And what I found was that putting my back against the wall, and then like I said, working on a positive mindset equally as hard as I was working on the business, within just a few months, I'd, you know, made back all the money I needed to pay for Jason and, and was kind of off and running building the business. So, you know, I think it was just a lesson for me that, you know, when we don't have certainty in the path, we can have certainty in ourselves. And that's really, you know, all that it takes in most situations. Yeah, well said. I like that if we don't have certainty in the path, we can have certainty in ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, similar to when I first invested in, as you mentioned, with in Tai Lopez coaching back in 2013, I transferred 25,000 American dollars, which was 32,000 Australian dollars from my Australian bank account into his Bank of America account on October 31, 2013. And, you know, as we're recording this now in 2020, seven years later, generated millions of dollars in revenue, you know, and helped my products have helped change many people's lives, obviously through quitting drinking and the swanese blue light blocking glasses, helping people sleep better. You know, I remember I had my father over actually just last night for dinner. And I remember seven years ago when I told him that I was sending Tai Lopez $25,000, he said, you're doing what? Who is this? Who is this Tai Lopez person? You're 25. What are you doing? Like he was shocked. And then it's funny because I had him over for dinner last night and I was like, oh, that investment worked out okay, I think, you know. I didn't tell my parents you had more guts than me. Yeah. But it's true, isn't it? I mean, even now I'm still I'm actually been going through that again, like in the sense that I really want to build another brand. And there's a gentleman, Ryan Daniel Moran, who's wrote a fabulous book called 12 Months to a Million Dollars. He's been a friend of mine for a number of years. And he has a paid program and it's coming up on how to build a brand and getting it ready for exit. And I have friends with him. And part of me is like an ego kicks in. And it's kind of like, oh, I'm experienced enough now that I shouldn't have to pay for coaching. I should just like, oh, I'm feeling a little bit embarrassed to actually even say to someone that I've known for seven years and who I've built businesses with, oh, actually, can you help me? So that's so funny how the ego kicks in even as we move along, even after having success in business and things like that, for me at least, my ego still gets in the way. I'm doing it. I'm enrolling in it and I'm coughing up the cash to do it. Even though quite frankly, I don't need to. I'll do it. It might just take me a decade. Whereas if I do it this way with him and I pay for it, then I'm going to pay attention and I might do it in like two years. So I think that's the same with anything. When you have a coach or a mentor and you put your back up against the wall and some people may use the phrase when you burn the ships, you give yourself no retreat. That's when you actually focus and get things done. Yeah. I really couldn't agree more. I think you look at all of the free education that's out there that we typically just don't take advantage of. The reality is that when you have skin in the game, when you pay for something, especially when you pay that amount of money for something, it's definitely something that's going to light that fire under your ass to make things happen. I think you really put it perfectly that it's not that you can't get to the same goal without help. It's that you're going to do it so much faster. So that's really key. Yeah. You're buying speed, aren't you? You're investing in speed. Tell us a little bit about how you manage your time and your productivity. I'd love to know a day in the life of Dorothy, actually. What time do you wake up? What do you do? How do you spend your day? What do you do? What's your nighttime routine? Walk us through that. Yeah. So part of the reason that I allowed Jacob to steal my swanis is that he has a lot of trouble sleeping and I have always been very skilled at sleeping. So it's funny. I would say the one piece of my routine that I absolutely never skip is getting at least eight hours of sleep, usually nine. I'm someone who just, I know that I function the best when I am well rested. You know, I hardly ever drink, like you say is such a huge part of sleep. And so I get a good night's sleep. I wake up usually at about 7 a.m. and then I like to move my body first thing. So usually either a walk or a run or if I'm doing a workout, I'll do that. Hydrate before that. I have cell reduce every single morning. And then when I'm done with whatever kind of movement I'm doing that day, then I meditate and I journal. And I think for me, it's the journaling piece that has been kind of the foundation of my positivity practice, if you will. It's definitely the one thing where, you know, if I feel like I am kind of in a rut or I haven't been moving forward, things aren't going well. I can just about always open up my journal and see, okay, I haven't done this for two weeks, you know, let's let's get back on track. So it's something that just has a dramatic impact on me. So that is, that's kind of my morning routine. Then, you know, I usually then check in on Slack with my team, see how, you know, all of our ad accounts are doing that day, you know, what's going on with with all of my clients. And then the rest of my day is usually filled with, you know, calls with my clients, you know, strategy sessions with my team, and, and really just making sure that that we are executing for, you know, everyone that we work with at the highest level possible. And then I usually wrap up the day around six, seven o'clock and cook dinner and enjoy a quiet evening and go to bed early. What time's early for you? Honestly, I usually get in bed about 9 30. And I'll read for a little bit and go to sleep around 10 and wake up at seven. So I get my nine hours. I've been experimenting with waking up a lot earlier and going to bed a lot earlier. So as early as 7 38 and trying to trying to get up around, I mean, this week I got up, the other thing I got up was 5 30. But I'm trying to see if I can get up at five, try and train myself to get up at five. Because I'm in Australia at the moment with COVID-19 as we're recording this. And I'm most of my businesses in America, as soon as I wake up, I'm on like, because America's already it's already lunchtime there. And I've what I found for a couple of months during COVID, COVID-19 lockdowns was that my daily routine of writing in my gratitude diary and exercising and doing like trying to do 10 or 15 minutes of meditation and just, you know, being intentional and writing and my vision for the future and stuff was that was getting pushed to the side because I was waking up and straight away I got calls and podcast interviews and meetings and things like that. So I've been in I've been just this week. Actually, I've been intentionally attempting to go to fall asleep sooner and wake up earlier and make sure that I don't compromise that kind of morning routine. Yeah, any thoughts on that? Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I think self awareness is so huge and absolutely everything. And so for me, I actually work with a hypnotherapist and that has been life changing. That's a whole other rabbit hole that we can go down if you want. But, but it was interesting. I was in a period where I was trying to do the same thing as you. I was saying, you know, okay, if I'm going to be, you know, real entrepreneur, a good entrepreneur, you know, I got to be gained up early, right? That's what they all say. So I was trying to, you know, get myself to wake up at, you know, 535 45. And it wasn't going well, let's say that. And so in a conversation with with my hypnotherapist, I was I was talking about this. And he was having me kind of describe my morning and my, you know, my thought process. And what he realized was that every morning while I was waking up, when I was waking up, the very first thing I was doing was beating myself up for snoozing my alarm till 615 or, you know, for, for not jumping out of bed at 530. And, and he kind of pointed this out to me. He's like, so you're starting every single day attacking yourself and talking down on yourself for, you know, meeting this not meeting this arbitrary standard that you set. So why don't you just decide that you have permission to wake, you know, go to sleep at 10 and wake up at 7. And, and that's, that can be, you know, that can be okay, right? And so I think for me, what I found was, you know, that schedule really worked for me. And so I think there is, there's so much power in just being self aware. So like for you, being Australia, like you said, you know, you need that extra time in the morning to be able to kind of get into things like for me, it's okay if I start work at, you know, 10am, you know, because that's, that's what works for me in my schedule. So it's a, it's all very individual, I think. Yeah. Yeah, it's, I found that when I do, I have this, I wouldn't say it's a love-hate relationship with meditation. I would say I love meditation, it's just I hate starting, starting it. I hate beginning it. So, so when I'm doing it, I love it, but the actual process of sitting down and just going, closing my eyes and beginning, oh, I have so much resistance all the time. And this is, you're talking to someone who's done a 10 day silent meditation, you know, for passionate, like I've done all that stuff. Anything that you have resistance to, anything that you have a lot of resistance to that you know is so damn good for you. But Dorothy's mind is just like, not today, I don't want to do it. Yeah, you know, it's, it's interesting. I mean, definitely it's, it's kind of the same answer. It's the, the meditation and the journaling, which is so funny because it is without question, the thing that keeps me, you know, on the right track in terms of my mindset and my thinking patterns. And it's not something that takes a lot of time. I mean, I certainly have more than half an hour in the day that I'm just wasting on, you know, stupid stuff, whatever, social media. And so the fact that we can be so resistant to taking that time to do something that has a dramatic impact on our mental health and wellbeing is pretty shocking. So, you know, I think that for me, it's traveling where things really go off the rails. So, you know, obviously 2020 hasn't, there hasn't been as much travel on my calendar. So it's really been a time where I focused on solidifying my routine in a really powerful way, because I think when you, when you turn it into something that is as routine as brushing your teeth, it becomes harder to, you know, to ignore it and then let it go. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing how the human brain as well. I'm not sure if you find this, but when we first discover something new, we're just, we fall in love with it, right? And we want to tell everyone about it. It's like, oh, I've got this new book. You've got to read it. It's incredible. I was like, oh, I found this new thing and I'm doing this and it's incredible. Oh, guess what? I'm doing stretching. I'm doing meditation. It's been a game changer. And you hear this all the time, all the time. And I've been guilty of this all the time. You go charging over the hill a million miles an hour and then two, three weeks into it, you start, the slippery slope starts to get you. And then week four or five, you're in the drift. And then week six or seven, it's like, what was that thing I was doing again? And then you have to keep reminding yourself coming back, coming back, coming back, coming back. So my, it's funny because I'm not that self disciplined. I mean, I'm self, sorry, I'm self disciplined in many things, but I'm not self disciplined in other things. But what I, what I have surrendered to, I guess, is as long as I'm making progress, as long as I feel like I'm, I'm, even if I'm not always consistent, as long as I feel like I'm making progress, I'm okay with that. And I used to beat myself up about it all the time. Like I should be doing better. I should be doing meditation or I should be making more money. I should be selling more things. And then I have to come back to like Jordan Peterson, the famous Canadian psychologist talks about it in his book, 12 rules for life. And he says, you always just got to compare yourself to you and your progress. And that makes me feel somewhat better when I wake up sometimes in the morning and I'm beating myself up. Yeah. No, I, it's, I think it's, it's perspective, right? So you mentioned how important it is to, to feel like you're making progress. I read a book several years ago called Zen in the Art of Happiness by Chris Prentice. And it's a short book, a simple book. But basically, it encourages you to operate under the premise that everything that happens to me is the best possible thing that could happen to me. And it's really interesting, you know, I think all of us, if you look at events in your life, you know, every single person listening to this, you can probably point to at least one thing that has happened to you, that at the time felt devastating. It felt like an, you know, unequivocal, you know, negative event, this is a bad thing that happened. And then in hindsight, you realize that, that it was actually to your benefit, you know, it led to something better, you know, whatever it was, whether it was, you know, a breakup, losing a job. And I had an experience like this, when, you know, I was, I was taking, I was in Jason's coaching program, I was in the very early days of building the agency, I was getting some traction, but you know, it was still, it was still a major grind. And my old boss came to me with an opportunity to work with him in the new company that, you know, he had gotten involved in. And, and so this was this was a job, in essence, you know, they were like, you can have, you know, some clients on the side, but you know, this was almost a full time gig. And I jumped in, you know, I thought, Oh, this is great, this is going to be, you know, stability and I can still, you know, whatever. I made all kinds of excuses for why it was the right move. And then about, you know, a month, six weeks later, I lost the opportunity. They realized that, you know, the business was so early on, like there were kind of too many cooks in the kitchen. And, you know, and really my skills just overlapped 100% with, you know, with one of the co founders. And so I basically, you know, I lost that gig. And at the time it felt, it felt devastating. It felt like, you know, this was going to be, this was going to be it. This was going to be an amazing opportunity for all of these reasons. And I was, you know, really in a position where I had to choose to look at this as an opportunity. And, and even though at the time it felt so negative, losing something, that was really, it was, you know, kicking out the crutch that I was leaning on to avoid actually building this business. And, and being on my own. And so, you know, in hindsight, looking back, thank goodness that that opportunity fell out from under me, because if it hadn't, I never would have, you know, gotten to where I am now and where I'm continuing to go of building this business of providing other people jobs of, you know, getting results for my clients and really building something that I'm proud of and that I'm excited about. And so now I really try to look at everything that happens in that light of, you know, how could this be the best thing that could happen for me? And when you start to ask yourself that question, your brain is going to search for answers. And so even in the darkest moments, the, the most scary situations, you can start to look for the opportunities. And looking is, is certainly the first step to, to finding them. So that's been really powerful for me. Yeah, Tony Robbins says if you want better results, ask yourself better questions. Yeah, it seems like, you know, you want, you want to, you want master results, ask yourself master questions. Yeah, it's powerful stuff. I want to geek out on some productivity tech stuff. I think you, what do you use? I think you use a sauna, right? To put things in. Tell us a little bit about how you plan out your day, like for the, for the entrepreneurs or the productivity geeks out there listening. How do you, how do you, what, what kind of to-do list do you have? How do you get things done? What tech are you using? Yeah. Well, my whole life lives in a sauna. So for a while, I would just have kind of work tasks in there. But what I found is that when I started to use a sauna to track everything that I needed to do, like schedule a dentist appointment, you know, it takes this mental burden off of you. So all of these things that you just have, you know, in your head of like, I got to do XYZ. I have to, I literally have a task in a sauna twice a week for, you know, call my grandmother. And, and it's, it sounds kind of silly, but it is very freeing, at least for me, to know that I can just go into a sauna every day. I break things out of, you know, what I've got to do today, tomorrow, this week, next week. And, and so whenever I, you know, realize like, okay, hey, I've got to schedule a dentist appointment in, in six months, I put it in a sauna, mark that due date in six months. And I know that it's going to pop up on my to-do list when it needs to happen. And, and I don't have to worry about it. And so that has been very powerful for me. And I think one of the keys to, to productivity and staying positive for me is being realistic about what I can get done in a day. Because I think for a long time, especially when I first started the business and, and especially when I was working alone and didn't have a team, you know, I was just completely unrealistic about, you know, what I was, you know, assigning myself for any given day. And so inevitably, every single night, I would have to shut down or, you know, leaving things undone. And so again, just like, you know, not being able to wake up, jump out of bed at 530 in the morning. I was beating myself up at the end of every single workday. And it wasn't because I was not being productive or not working hard. It was because I was trying to fit three days worth of work into every single day. And so just being more realistic about what can happen and then planning that so that, you know, now I'm, you know, I'm able to work my way through my tasks for the day. And then maybe I get to get started on, you know, one of my tasks for tomorrow. And that leads to a, you know, a much more positive, you know, empowering mindset around work and productivity than, than the opposite. Yeah, Tony Robbins again to quote him says that we underestimate, or sorry, we overestimate what we can achieve in a day and underestimate what we can achieve in a year, for example. So, or you could just change it to a month as well. I've heard it one year and five years. I think it's true to kind of how you, how you shake it. Yeah. Yeah, I, um, yeah, I, I, I, it's amazing. Like I'll set out at the beginning of a week and think, this is what I'm going to do this week. And no matter what, I'm going to get that done. And then all of a sudden stuff comes up and I'm like, Oh, I've got to do that. I want to do that. That's good. Oh yeah, I got to do that. I'm going to add that to the list. And then before you know it, it's like, there's a hundred different things on there. But I am, I am the chasing the shiny new rabbit kind of guy. Like I like to try and chase it. I actually do like chasing shiny new rabbits. It's just, I haven't quite yet fully mastered the sequence with which I chased them because I think if I can master the sequence, then things will be a lot, a lot easier. And and like you probably wouldn't beat myself up so much for not getting things, not seemingly getting things done. Um, yeah. So we're talking, um, uh, we're talking about, uh, Needle's eye media as well. I'd love to know just a little bit more, uh, a little bit more about that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, Dorothy? Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, you know, really, what we do is, you know, about 75% of our clients are selling digital products or services. So we work with a lot of personal brands, you know, a lot of companies promoting things like your 30 day out, no alcohol challenge, you know, products like that. And, um, and, you know, our, um, our ideal client is someone who is, you know, spending between 10 to $40,000 a month on paid traffic and is looking to scale to $100,000, $200,000 a month. Um, and so, you know, uh, you mentioned my podcast is called do well and do good. Um, giving back is something that's really important to me. And so I really make it a priority to only work with businesses who I do feel are, are really doing something good in the world. Um, and that really makes, makes my work a lot more fulfilling. Um, and so, you know, I, uh, I believe that paid traffic is really the, the best way to create leverage in your business. Um, and really be able to kind of turn on the faucet when, when you're ready to really pour it on and, and, um, you know, and, and scale your customer acquisition in a, in a predictable way. Um, and so that's really, you know, what we, what we help our clients to do. Yeah. You can check out more at needles, I media.com, which is, uh, Dorothy's full service digital marketing agency. Um, you mentioned before, I think I may have referred to you as a wife, but it's your fiance. Is that right today? Yes. Yes. Yes. So I stand corrected. I'm sorry. I, I've got ahead of myself. No worries. I'm sure, I'm sure your fiance is keen for you to be his, his wife. So well, he's going to have to wait a little longer now, thanks to our friend Corona virus. Is that right? What's happened? Uh, well, we were supposed to get married September 19th. Um, and, uh, we ended up moving it to October, 2021, um, just so that we could be, uh, at least more confident that we can kind of have the, the celebration that we wanted to have. So, um, honestly, it was, it was stressful before we moved it. Now that it's done, um, I'm just glad we don't have to stress about it anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. You, you, uh, without actually even reading the book that I referenced before, like, uh, um, uh, a beautiful constraint by Adam Morgan and Mark Bird, and you've already changed the goal and you've already overcome the obstacle. So that's great. Well played. Thank you. Thank you. It's funny now though, uh, because of everyone moving their 2020 weddings to 2021, I'm going to have seven next year. Uh, one is the maid of honor. Two was the bridesmaid and one is the bride. So, Oh wow. That's true. Cause when all this, when all this dies down, COVID-19, there's going to be a flurry of weddings up there. Yes. My sister was very gracious in letting us move our wedding to three weeks after hers. Wow. Yeah. Well, Dorothy, thank you so much for sharing, uh, your expertise with us today. Um, I love, I love the topic of staying positive and, uh, productivity and mindset and overcoming obstacles. And, uh, yeah, it's a testament to you that you've been able to handle all those things the way that, the way that you have. So thank you for your time. Well, I definitely encourage you, anyone listening to reach out to me. I'd love to connect with you on Instagram, on Facebook, uh, help you however I can. So James, thank you so much for helping, for having me. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah. You should wrestle those swannies back from your fiance as well. I should. I need to just buy a second pair so I can not rock my own. I want those clear ones you got. They're so cool. Thanks, Dorothy. Take care. Thank you.