 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise V's and generous donations from viewers like you Welcome to the Amherst planning board meeting It's February 10th 2021 based on the governor Baker's executive order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GL chapters 30a Section 20 and signed Thursday, March 12th 2020 the planning board meeting is being held virtually using the zoom platform My name is Jack jumpsick and as the chair of the Amherst planning board. I'm calling this meeting to order at About what 634 p.m. This meeting is being recorded and is available via Amherst media live stream Minutes being taken as normal or members. I will take a roll call when I hear when I call your name Unmute yourself answer affirmatively and then please play place yourself back on mute. I'm Rhea Chow here Tom Long here Andrew McDougall Doug Marshall present Janet McGowan here, Johanna Newman. She is not Present at this moment and then myself Here so we got six of the seven have a quorum Board members if technical difficulties arise you may need to pause temporarily to correct the problem then continue the meeting If you do have technical issues, please let Pam know discussion may be suspended while the technical issues are Addressed the minutes will note if this occurred please use the raise hand function to ask a question or make a comment I will see your raised hand and call on you to speak after speaking remember to remute yourself Opportunity for a public comment will be provided during the general public comment Item and other appropriate times during the meeting. Please be aware of the board will not respond to comments During general public comment period if you wish to make a comment do the during the public comment period You must join the meeting via the zoom teleconferencing link the link is shown in the slide and can be entered into a search engine by typing the address shown Yes, it's there The link is also listed on the meeting agenda posted on the town website via the calendar listing For this meeting or you can go to the planning board web page and click on the most recent agenda Which lists a zoom link at the top of the page? Please indicate you wish to make a comment by Clicking the raised hand button when public comment is solicited if you have joined the zoom meeting using a telephone Please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star 9 on your telephone When called on please identify yourself by stating your full name and address and put yourself back into mute and finish speaking Residents can express a view set for three minutes and at the discretion of the planning board chair I have a speaker does not comply with these guidelines or exceeds there's a lot of time their participation will be disconnected from the meeting so with that we can dive into the first item which are the minutes of Oops Yeah the first one is May 20th May 20th So what why why were these what what why are we seeing this now? I know You know, we've been keeping up with them at this one. I Don't remember sure check. There's a few stragglers out there when we first went to the virtual world We got a little behind in minutes. I also was tasked for taking minutes for other boards and committees So there are some stragglers out there and I apologize for that. Yeah, is this the last one? No, oh, okay All right, I'm just gonna be honest and say no, but the stragglers I just work on them as I can and Okay. Yeah So here, you know, we have four Existing board members they can we're we're present for this so With that anybody have any comments want to make a motion to approve All right Andrew Can Andrew make that motion because he wasn't there. Well, we he'll probably abstain, but he can make a motion Any comment on the minutes No, I see none. Okay with that we'll do a roll call and Oops, I have my where's my cheat sheet here. All right Maria approve and Doug approve and Janet approve and myself approve. That's four zero on those minutes of May 20th 2020. I think we should say that the others abstained. Yeah Yes So Andrew and Tom, yeah, I'll go ahead and have them state that Andrew abstain and Tom abstain. Okay. Sorry about that and the next minutes are January 2021 I believe. Yes, okay and That was just Is that the last one? No, we went, you know, we met you had February 3rd in there, which they're almost done. Yeah So any comment on this any or someone want to make a motion to approve? I Move to approve the minutes. Okay, Janet second Second. All right, Tom. Thank you any discussion. I see none Actually gotta get me over here. All right. Okay. Let's do a roll call then and Maria approve Andrew Approve Doug approve Tom approve Janet prove and myself approve a six zero and I think that's it for that I Do number one that deals with minutes and we have a public comment period Do you see any hands raised? Pam I do not oh, there's one A couple of popped right up. Okay, so Elizabeth Veerling followed by Pam Rooney Okay, Elizabeth has three minutes and then then Pam and then we have Ira after that Hi, Elizabeth You're on mute. Can you unmute yourself? Yes, this is Elizabeth Veerling and I'm at 36 cottage Street and I just wanted to express two thoughts about the current discussion of Zoning changes and those two thoughts are simply that None of the changes or any of the discussion that I've heard really deals with or guarantees affordable housing which I thought was one of the main goals of the master plan and development in general and my second comment is that none of the zoning changes also deal with the town's significant pressure of supplying undergraduate housing undergraduate student housing and It's of interest to understand what mechanisms might deal with these two Really major issues that I see as problems in development in the town of Amherst. Thank you Thank you, Elizabeth Pam Rooney, please hi p.m. Hi p.m. I've allowed you to speak There you go. You just unmuted me. Thank you. You're welcome Good evening. I am delighted that you're again studying these zoning changes in depth and starting to you know weigh the ramifications of what these changes mean it has occurred to me as I've been looking at these changes myself and Sort of trying to understand the background of why we might want to go in and take out a footnote or add a footnote and It occurred to me that we have today With existing regulations, we have a tremendous potential actually for a great deal of additional housing in Amherst starting with accessory dwelling units and in every single Residential zone, I'll I'll exclude fraternity for the moment In every single zone we have the opportunity to build one two three family essentially residential units Which is a an astounding amount of capacity actually I would enjoy hearing some of the discussions and some of the quantities as you as you get into the conversation tonight on How many parcels there are various sizes that would support that incremental? Housing capacity so I think as we all Understand zoning gets Developed, you know through due process because there's a need there's something that's an issue or a need that's being addressed and We you know the the need for that for that zoning goes away If the need has been addressed or somehow we deal with that issue issue in some other way So I just want to make sure that as we all talk about these zoning changes We do understand or recognize Or ask ourselves if the if the issues are still there have we addressed them in some of their shape or form and can we Support the intent in other ways So I'm happy to listen in on the conversation tonight and hopefully can weigh in with some ideas at that time as well Thank you Thank You Pam Ira Hi, this is Ira Brick at 255 Strong Street. I Hope you all are well. I want to talk about the idea of removing footnote M from the RG I Live on Strong Street and I walk from my house towards town through the RG and In terms of trying to define a character of the neighborhood. It's very clear just walking around that that neighborhood is characterized by smaller plots and quaint homes and the idea that Removing the footnote that would allow three family houses and tiny houses in the backyard With each of those four units having four legal Residents of 16 people on a lot is so Obviously going to change the character of the neighborhood and recently Dorothy Pam was talking about looking at another neighborhood around Lincoln and trying to come up with more Anecdotal reasons not technical reasons why a car why a neighborhood has a certain character looking at front porches and looking at yards and all of that It's so obvious anybody that I have Discussed with what might happen in that neighborhood says how is that going to do anything? That is required or desired. How is that going to lower prices? There's no economic explanation at all about how prices are going to come down by densifying that neighborhood I Did hear somebody make a comment last week on a hearing that good zoning should not have footnotes and I have to agree with that I mean to remove something that is a Kind of sloppy fix to the zoning bylaw there is the wrong way to go It should be what do we want that neighborhood to be and what zoning defies Defines what we need it to be and also come up with a rational approach to how that is going to be the zoning that is attracting the affordable housing Tenants that we're aiming for there was a discussion recently about how it's very simple to build Affordable housing that is not what is needed and desired by the people you're trying to attract to live in affordable housing I think we are just so Ready to make a major change with numerous unintended consequences I think that's gonna ruin the neighborhood and people frequently describe other campuses Yukon comes up a lot of having a dead zone around the town and the campus from zoning Mistakes and I just want to say let's slow down a little bit I don't see what the rush is if there's if there's a so-called shortage of housing Let's first check our work to see that the Something like five to seven hundred new housing units that have been built since the housing study was done Has not actually changed our situation and let's look at how prices have actually responded to some of the new Student dorms that have been built from what I'm hearing even from student landlords That rents have gone up because all they need to be is 20% less than the exorbitant rates of the new housing So I think that in terms of having a planning board Just decide let's remove this and see what happens is not planning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you I'd like to recognize Johanna has is with us Sorry, I'm late No apologies So Pam if you want to put that in the notes and thank you for the public comments. I see no additional Within the attendees so we can get into our Further into our agenda and and basically we're focusing on zoning priorities Today in this in this Session where as you all know where we're adding instead of going every other week We're doing weekly meetings to attend to issues that no town council and CRC have asked us to pursue So they can they can address what they have already identified as the priorities, I believe there's 14 items today we have focusing in on the the footnote M1 and At this time I would like to have Maria Speak to this and get this topic rolling is that Is that good you can kind of like follow from from the last meeting because I think What's that Chris breast strip has raised her hand, okay Chris So We have the planning staff has prepared a presentation about footnote M And Unfortunately, we didn't have a chance to send it out to you before tonight's meeting, but we will post it online So I wonder if Jack would recognize our planner Maureen Pollock to give a presentation And I think that will take the pressure off Maria and Doug who've also done good work on footnote M Maureen's really been delving into it in the last couple of weeks, so Okay, I thought that we were going to do that Is this is this the same Presentation that you and Rob worked on no that's different. No that Rob and I will present about the okay Zoning priorities in general after Maureen's presentation and very good and the chance for questions and answers That sounds great Maureen. What are you? Can you Speak to that. Yeah, sure. Hi everyone. My name is Maureen Pollock. Um, let me pull up the My presentation here just bear with me for one second Okay, can everyone Fullscreen can everyone see this? Yes, yeah, okay perfect. Okay. Hi everyone Firstly, thank you Chris and Rob and Pam and to The planning board for inviting me to tonight's planning board meeting My name is Maureen Pollock. I'm one of the staff planners with the town of Amherst and I am I've been researching Footnote M Which is under table three of the dimensional regulations of the Amherst zoning bylaw The town council has asked the planning department to explore the possibility of removing footnote M As a way to increase the amount of housing opportunities in and around downtown Amherst More specifically in the general residence zoning district This study is part of the town's overall project to to explore various Zoning amendments So here's a screenshot Of the table three dimensional regulations. It's found in the the Amherst zoning bylaw And it shows you the different factors that are listed in in the table from Addresses lot area Of lot frontage setbacks building in lot coverages maximum floors and height requirements for buildings and it shows that how that's applicable In in all the zoning districts across town Here On this page shows what we're going to focus on which is The the lot requirement for for Apartments and townhouses, but let's step back for a moment So the basic minimum lot area requirement in the General residence zoning district is 12,000 square feet And the additional lot area per family is 2,500 square feet I wanted to sort of just walk you through it and give you a couple of examples to get sort of our feet wet if you will So you'll see where I have example one The lot area required for a single family home Would be 12,000 square feet as that's the basic minimum lot area Example two shows the lot area required for a two-family home in the rg zone So you would take the the basic minimum lot area requirement, which would be 12,000 square feet and then you would Add that to the To the additional lot area per family, which is 2,500 square feet So you would add those together and that would give you 14,500 square 14,500 square feet or 0.33 acres And that would be the lot requirement for a two-family home So as it shows here, this is the basic basic minimum lot areas 12,000 square feet in in here. It shows 2,500 Square feet would be required for additional lot area Now if we go to the next slide, we're going to show There's a couple footnotes that you can see throughout the whole table three We're going to focus on where it's footnote m for additional lot area per family. So under footnote m the the additional lot area For apartments and townhouses is not the 2,500 it's 4,000 square feet So I wanted to show you a couple examples for that. So So as as I had said earlier that uh, the town council is exploring the idea of well Do we keep footnote m for townhouses and apartments or do we remove footnote m and and Just keep with the 2,500 as it's shown on the table three. So in in example three You'll see that the 12 the the the basic minimum lot area would remain And that would be 12,000 square feet For the first unit And again, this would this example would be for a four unit apartment building So the first unit would require the 12,000 square feet for the basic minimum lot area And then for the additional three units for that building Would require 4,000 square feet for each of those three units So it would be uh, let's see here. It would be 4,000 times three Which would equal 12,000 square feet So you would add 12,000 square feet plus the basic basic minimum lot area of 12,000 square feet Which would give you 24,000 square feet or about a half an acre In example four, this shows you what what what the same Building or a same amount of units would require Would be required for the lot area if footnote m was removed So the 12,000 square feet for the basic minimum lot area would remain for And that would count for the first unit But now since footnote m would be removed it would the number would be For each additional unit would require 12 2,500 square feet for the remaining three units. So that would be 7,500 square feet So you would add 7,500 square feet to the basic basic minimum lot area of 12,000 square feet Which would equal 19,500 Square feet or about a 0.44 44 acres for a four unit apartment building Now before we move on to anything else. I just wanted to quickly explain Um What what an apartment in the townhouses? I took this the definition for apartment and townhouses from article 12 of the zoning bylaw And this is just an abridged definition and for our purposes. This is um what I wanted to show you It does have more language in the definition But for for for tonight. This was the only thing that I wanted to focus on so for our apartment Um, it's a residential use consisting of one or more buildings each building containing no fewer than three In no more than 20 24 dwelling units And then a townhouse is a residential use consisting of one or more building Buildings containing no fewer than three nor more than 10 attached dwelling units okay so again Footnote m is only applicable in the general residence zoning district and here is The rg zoning district map As you can see, uh, it's surrounding downtown This is uh right here the in the pink is north pleasant and main and amity intersection to the northwest Is umas which would be part of the educational zoning district um to the west is the neighborhood residential zoning district to the south is pockets of of the rn district and then majority of the educational districts Associated with amherst college Um over here. We have some bl limited business districts bvc District and we have the commercial zoning district on long root nine where the cummerland farms is and i believe florin savings bank And we have the residential village center to the east and that's where the wild uh, that's where the elementary school is and uh, let's see here and then um the majority of the of the adjacent zone to the let's see here East north and northeast is the neighborhood residential Also, I wanted to point out that this map shows the two local historic districts Where you can see hopefully you can see my cursor On the west's early side of the rg zoning district Is the uh, lincoln sunset his local historic districts which goes Along the western side of of this zoning district and over here By main street and triangle and that sort of neighborhood is the emily dickinson local historic district I just wanted to point out all these sort of key areas So here let's see here um in this slide. I wanted to Show everyone What the purpose of the rg district is? Um, pursuant to the zoning bylaw. So I just cut and pasted this from the zoning bylaw On the purpose of this district is to provide for residential neighborhoods of medium to higher density In areas both near the town center and between the university and the town center Such areas are convenient to the services facilities and institutions and or employment opportunities provided in the town center or by the university Some graphs, okay, so uh, we did uh go over what the Basic basic minimum lot area requirement in the rg is it's listed up here as a friendly reminder It's 12,000 square feet The lot area for what currently for apartments in townhouses with the footnote m is 4,000 square feet And if uh, you know, if the town so choose to remove footnote m That would um, then go back to 25 25 2,500 square feet so And just to say with that If you were to add 12,000 if you were to take the 12,000 square feet for the basic basic minimum lot area And add the 2,500 square uh square feet for the additional lot area that is currently The requirement for a two-family home in amherst, which would require 14,500 square feet or 0.33 acres So over here in figure one on the left side of your screen This shows the lot area requirements for uses using existing footnote m for For properties that have three units up to 13 units And on the right side in figure two it shows lot area requirements for For units with footnote m removed and again that shows you between Properties that would be able to have three units versus 13 units And so you can see as you compare a property that would Allow three units the requirement currently would be 20,000 square feet Which is about almost a half an acre. It's 0.46 acres if the footnote m was removed And someone wanted to have three units the requirement would be 17,000 square feet or 0.39 acres And as you go down the list you can see the different uh the subtleties of how You know, you can clearly see that the The amount of land that you would need For additional units on a property with footnote m would be reduced. So if we were to take a look at Someone wanted to build or someone wanted to have 10 units on their property Currently they would need about 48,000 square feet or about one acre and with footnote m And they wanted the 10 units they would need 34,500 square feet or about 0.79 acres So Let's see here on the next page. There's more and don't worry. This is the this is the last slide of Of a lot of numbers. So I'll just show you one other example. So Here This shows you uh on on both figure three and four this shows you the difference of you know, we look at A property that would have 14 units up to 24 units So if we were just i'm just randomly picking this so a property that wants 20 units currently With footnote m would need 88,000 square feet or about two acres if Someone wanted to have 20 units with and uh footnote m was removed they would need about 59,500 square feet or about 1.37 acres So you can see how it went down from about 0.44 acres To allow 20 20 units on this property Okay, so So rg parcels included in this study So I spent a lot of time in arc gis in excel for this which was fun and um entertaining I guess um So the study analyzes parcels with lot with the with lot area of 17 000 square feet Or more in size and let me go back in the reason why Uh again the study analyzes parcels with lot area of 17 000 square feet or more in size and and the reason for that is if uh footnote Footnote m were to be removed and someone would Would like to build or or have three units They would need a minimum of 17 000 square feet and this is uh for for Three dwelling units and so that would be applicable to apartments townhouses And to uh triplexes which triplexes triplexes isn't formally listed In the zoning bylaw, but that's what that would um would be another name for it So a triplex could be considered an apartment or a townhouse So i'm going to go back to this So again the study so now we know why the study analyzes parcels with a lot area of 17 000 square feet or more in size because that is That is what uh the minimum lot area requirement would be for a three unit building and so um let's see here so The study includes 343 parcels As part of this study And if I go to this Next slide So what does the study exclude? So the study excludes uh the following parcels parcels that are less than 17 000 square feet in size because they're They're not helpful. They're not providing us any data useful data when it's applying to properties that we're looking into For three units or more so parcels less than 17 000 square feet in size would be uh more Fitting for single family homes or duplexes for example This study also does not look at split zone parcels. So um, there In this um, sorry in this This zone, you know, of course, uh this zone about another zoning district. So um, especially on sunset af there are parcels that are Uh half in the rg and half in the rn And so it it's very 50 50 and that happened in some other locations Around the perimeter of the of the rg zoning district So for right now, we're just going to take a pause from looking at those because that needs special sort of nuancing with analyzing that We also excluded town of amherst properties such as town hall the police station kendrick park Sweetser park The bank center, etc, etc because we believe those will always be, uh, you know, always there and we're not doing anything with those Um, we're excluding churches conservation properties and educational buildings owned by amherst college The study excludes the following factors. So, uh, currently we're I have not looked at Existing uses on any of these lots Um, so it's almost it. I'm only looking at this with a blank canvas. I'm only looking at the lot size So again, I'm looking at the the current uses. I'm look. I'm not looking at parking requirements building and law coverages setback requirements in floor and building height requirements and uh, I have not considered at this point, you know, combining parcels what would that look like or demolishing existing structures on on parcels Okay, so with that um, so the So of the 343 parcels that were included in the study the average size of a parcel of of Of the parcel that is part of the study is 31,600 square feet or 0.73 acres the median which is the middle value in the whole list of the 343 parcels is 24,700 square feet or about 0.57 acres In the mode, which I don't know. It's really applicable here. Um, This might just be sort of a coincidence is 21,780 or 0.5 acres and Let's see here. So number of um I can't I can't see my my legend because there's things in the way. So sorry number of units allowed per parcel with footnote m So let me go back to that number of units allowed per parcel with footnote m. Okay, so um, this is showing that, you know, the majority of Of parcels that exist that are part of this study in the rg zoning district are parcels that would allow between three and 10 units currently and And as you can see with the gradation of the green would indicate those those parcels that would allow Um Between three and 11. So there's 76 and if you can notice I have these parentheses That is the that is the count Of of the amount of parcels that currently would allow the unit type. So here This color is representing number of units allowed per lot with footnote m. So this This color is indicating that these parcels allow three units on the parcel and there are 76 parcels in total that would allow that and here There are 41 parcels that would allow four units and then it goes down Down the list and so the majority of them as I said would currently allow between three and 10 units on the property um, and then there there are good. There are some that are between parcels that would allow between 11 and 28 and There are a few in the higher end and I would like to have just a statement of Those that are on the higher end that would allow units these number of units of um, like this for example, this red this red parcel here Could currently allow 65 units on the property What I just wanted to point out is there's an existing use here. This is where aspen chase apartments are and this red This parcel that's colored in red is the Salem Place condos I wasn't able to uh, I ran out of time of looking up all all the sort of red and oranges I do believe that this is uh, also condos um, and I I um, I didn't have chance to look up these two parcels But I can certainly do that in the future to let folks know Here is the number of of units allowed per parcel if Footnote M was removed and you know, you can't see You don't see the you know, as I you go as I go back and forth um you There isn't a massive change of between the difference But there are certainly more opportunities Are aspen chase example? I believe it's aspen chase example where they have apartments from before or currently there They could if they decided to redevelop their property tomorrow. They um, you know, they perhaps Just looking at footnote footnote M. They could propose 65 units again This is not looking at law coverage parking requirements setbacks Etc etc And if footnote M was removed, they could have theoretically up to 103 units on their property So but you can see that it has provided some more subtle opportunities for more More Units on on these properties in the future. I would like to provide a chart that would show the percentage change I I ran out of time, but I would love to show what the percentage change is using like a table or a pie chart that would show the percentage change between parcels Between units allowed per parcel with footnote M compared to Without footnote M to help sort of visualize the before and after Okay So next steps for analysis. So again, this study solely looks How how many units may be allowed? In relation to the lot size and the inclusion and exclusion of footnote M This does not account for for any other factors Here are some next steps that I am suggesting Which is one determine the percentage change of number of units per parcel with footnote M and without Determine how many additional units can be added to existing parcels That would maintain the existing parcel It maintained the existing use on the parcel. So for example, if there was a parcel In the rg that let's just say they had a single family home on the property. They want to keep it But they have enough area that they want to Have a second principal use on their property. They would like to add A three-unit building on their property I could do a further analysis and show what what sort of opportunities Would that look like and And then with that sort of one example among maybe other examples that we come up with is that Is that of of the example of a single family home that wants to add additional units The the example could also account for Factors such as The existing use the parking requirements Of the building a lot coverage and the setbacks Which really gets into the nitty-gritty of this all so Questions comments Thanks Maureen I thought that was excellent. That really caught me up quick. Thank you Thank you Yeah, I look forward Do you think that you can hit most of the items that you laid out as the next steps within the next week? What's next week? What's today's the 10th? Oh, you have the on the 17th Um, I could certainly provide like a site plan Um, if you're looking for like a 3d model, I would need probably a couple weeks to Play around with that But um, are there any like sort of either specific properties in mind that Folks for for every reason, you know have been like oh, maybe that would be a good one to play with or um, are there specific Like Uses that you would want me to look at like I gave you the example of there's a single family home and The property owner wants to add a couple more units on the property or So so before we we I think you're going to get some questions But uh chris with regard to our weekly meetings now Would it be reasonable to assume like every other week? Will be more of a zoning priorities focus Um Pending what's on our docket Right now. We don't have um any pending site plan review or special permit applications. We have one Um scenic roads hearing that's probably going to occur sometime in the middle of march Um, but we haven't received any Applications for land use permits. So this is a good time to focus on Zoning so if you have the tolerance for it and the stamina Um, we're raring to go and um, you know, we can keep doing zoning every week until we All become exhausted or until we get an application for some nice new project Yeah, I think I think moraine's presentation was very responsive to some you know emails we got in that so that's great Um, I see a dug sand, please Thanks jack and and thanks moraine. That was great. Um, I have uh Three things that about the presentation that I wondered if you could uh Maybe think about the next time you show it uh, first of all the the charts that were at the beginning that showed How much land area you needed for a certain number of units? I think it might be more or at least it would be helpful to in addition if not instead to to to change the columns so that For a given lot area You then see how many units could be on that lot area with and without the footnote Because more people I think given that the rg is already highly developed and Divided into a lot of small lots It's going to be more a question of looking at a particular lot and Seeing how the number of units changes Sure. Yep. That's really great. Uh, that's a really good suggestion. Thank you. All right then my second comment is about the color maps, uh of the rg district with the sort of spectrum of, uh small number of units allowed to Uh a large number of units allowed and it was I'm wondering whether it was misleading when you toggled back and forth between them So maybe you can tell me whether you used the same colors for say 11 units In both of those maps Because it looked like you actually made them to have the same range of colors between fewest and least In other words, um If you take the aspen chase parcel Could we look at the the charts you're talking about doug? Sure. Thank you. So if you take the the aspen chase parcel on the first map It is it is oh, I has 65 units But if you go to the second one Is is the color that's used for 65 units a little less red um I see what you're saying. So I used a color ramp um And so it automatically Uh provided me the colors So I I see what you're saying that like a A three is a three a four is a four and so on and so forth Here, it's Just showing you sort of the gradient Uh for this applicable map. I see we're sorry. So so and so if if if you've got a single range between fewest and most that you're using for both maps then toggling back and forth is misleading Okay, because there would be more difference if You know because toggling back and forth we're we're judging it on the basis of the color changes and You know an 11 Should be the same color on both maps Sure. Yeah, no, that's really really good feedback. Uh, thank you doug and I also feel that um if I were to provide a um A column table chart That showed this percentage The percentage change That would be another good visual For for the board to see The percentage change for Amount of units allowed per parcel From With footnote and and with it removed and so that would take away the issue of color But yeah, I will certainly that's really good and I didn't think of that. So thank you for that comment I will definitely will Play around with the color gradient and see if there's a creative way of addressing that um, you know here then then my last comment was It would be useful or help interesting at least to Uh for both scenarios to to hear what the total number of units Yes, are uh, you know with and without the footnote, you know, there's 574 With the foot footnote and there's 3000 without the footnote or whatever the difference is, you know, if we did this What is the potential additional number of units in town? So those are all my comments. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you Doug. Those are those are uh, very good. I think with gis, you know, certainly moraine Sounds like it's, you know, very doable. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah Great. Uh, so next is, um, um, andrew Thanks jack. Um, thanks moraine. I would echo um, Doug's comments. I thought this was a great presentation and really, um, useful visual I just so like For the record, I I'm a gis nerd. I use it every day and I've been on the planning board for whatever four or five months and I'm like Finally getting a gis presentation. So thank you for doing I I have some comments which which may be border on a little technical or overly technical for some folks but just knowing that that you use the software is one um, it might be useful to to adopt like a story map for this something that's kind of dynamic as opposed to um having uh, you know, just kind of a static pdf presentation and as we want to delve into um, you know individual parcels that would be Really kind of a useful vehicle doing that So I'm not I'm not sure if you if you build those or not, but uh, just float that out there I think also on the thematic maps that you showed I think what to us I'm guessing and it's certainly for me, but maybe for everybody would be more valuable is Is rather than have the range reflect all of the values Is is maybe we group those? And by that I mean I think what's important for us to understand is how many parcels would go from like One would be able to go from one to two or from two to three Being able to go from like 45 units to 48 units is is not I don't think particularly relevant So maybe if we tighten that range to just focus on kind of those single digit type things where a single family or a single unit parcel could go to a double or a double to a triple might be Really giving us better focus because I think that's that's what we're trying to uh To really address and then I think you you just mentioned this actually in response to Doug I love the idea of a thematic which would just have like the delta in the number of units So that rather than do the visual compare like the thematic could just be based on The the change so like we could easily take a look and say You know these the ones that increase by one by two by three or by four And I would not be afraid just to like limit your scope to say Let's let's eliminate anything. You know to my first comment. Let's eliminate anything Where you can already put five units or six units because Again, I don't know that I think there's probably an upward threshold to what we really care about and then just seeing the number of observations in those anyway, you have like one or two Um parcels that that clustered some of those so it may make the maps and the story a little bit um easier for us to focus on But otherwise, um I I would love it if you came on all all of my meetings because it's it's it's really great Like you have no idea how excited I am. Uh, so thanks for presenting. Yeah. No, thank you. Well, thank you. This is really good feedback um All of it so far because you know me behind the the computer in my arc gis layer here I'm going through these sort of thought processes of like, oh, should I do that or that or so this is uh, It's great to hear your comments. Uh, that can help, uh, you know, move this along and and and provide updated material Yes, I mean andrew. I mean you took it to another level there. I thought dugs was great. But now you're uh, I have a question What is a story story map you mentioned? Yes I mean story map. It's it's almost like a powerpoint presentation with a dynamic map layer So so imagine, you know, moraine's presenting this and we can take that map and zoom in in real time Or zoom out. So like it's not it's not a it's not a it's not a like a an image It's a dynamic map Okay, you can go and then if you do that you could drill in and you could get some you could actually get some attribute information on the courses Um, you could pull up, you know, the building footprints like it's one thing to say you can go from one to two But depending on how the current housing structure is set up on the property like There may be maybe no room for that, right? If the building footprint is up Is in the middle of the parcel You really maybe not be able to build another structure, but it's up front. Perhaps you could build something in the rear Like as we look into individual use cases, I think that could be that could be a fascinating piece and it's a pretty Depending on how you're configured. It's a pretty easy adjustment to make from your your edge of configuration Thank you, uh, maria Um, thanks moraine that was actually exciting. I can't believe zoning can be exciting The most exciting slide to me was could you go to the one where you toggle between the The gradients that were like green yellow red. Did you just feel like I'm sure Just keep going like back and forth. I because that What andrew just touched on was so exciting about seeing the delta the change and I think that's the That's the right point is we want to see change. We don't really care about like How much more square footage and so If there's a way Um, can you just do it a few more times just for you? That was really exciting because um The thing is like your point was was that you can see the incremental tick is not that significant and in fact the part that is changing the most is in the local historic district, which I think is you can't really You wouldn't it would be would be you'd have to be really creative right to be able to add Another dwelling in it to a lot of those project uh parcels. So um, I don't know if you saw doug's Uh spreadsheet where he did exactly what he was suggesting Which is just show the delta on the number of units Not necessarily how much more square footage you need because that's too abstract for people I think they want to know If right now it's allowed three units Uh, what does it go up to if you you know have this certain square footage? So I don't know how to show that but basically yeah just seeing the delta in number of units um between removing the footnote and having the footnote Is really great and I think that toggle you just showed is what really excited me because I just want to see You know, I when we did the study I forget when I was focusing on the largest parcels I thought oh, that's going to be where the biggest impacts are but it's very telling that it actually is more about like Going from four units to six units or three units to four units. That's what's sort of um The sounds like the point of unlocking footnote m Um You know, there are only a few parcels that I found that even had that ability to do the um the sort of 10 units up to 16 units Scenario so um, and I think I can't remember if it was chrissa rod mentioned You know the parking alone would just make that not even feasible. So I think you're on the right track as far as studying where the smaller incremental changes are and um And I think that will sort of you know, quell a lot of these sort of worries that are coming from the public about people say Oh my gosh, this is going to completely change What's currently there and in fact what's already allowed versus what footnote m would unlock is it doesn't look like it's not Huge of a leap. It's not like suddenly this neighborhood that could allow a three Drawing unit is going to go up to eight. You know, it's literally going to go up one unit. And so Um, I think it was great. This is really telling study that you're doing um and uh I wonder maybe other board members can chime in should we just leave out the historic districts just to reduce the number of parcels You're analyzing. I mean I don't know. I I guess that's a worthwhile study if you have the time but maybe maybe it's more about looking at um, let me look at the I'm looking at the rg's that are also closer to um The main arteries. Um, I think townhouses and apartments are only allowed Close to places where you already have a lot of either multi-family development or close to, you know, main Roads of travel. So Just to reduce, you know, your amount of number crunching. I wonder if um, that's worthwhile Um, I mean it looks like you've already avoided Well from your green and yellow charts, I forget if you like avoided the The ed and all the other districts, but um Just thinking, you know, how to reduce the number of things you have to number crunch so that you can really play with the numbers and show the really salient data so that It you know, it's less work and get more information out Um, but thanks. I I I love those those charts. Those are great Thank you Doug please Yeah, I had one other or I guess two other thoughts um, I don't know if you can do this in gis, uh, but When you're analyzing the change it might be helpful to compare the existing number of units To what could be allowed rather than the hypothetical current allowed to what What for removing the footnote would do And then the second thing, uh, I was just going to kind of comment in response to maria's comment about excluding the historic district Um, I would not remove that from the conversation um, you know, I think if you had a a very determined developer They would go through the demolition by-law and You know See how they could maximize that property and and and design something that was However, you know, everybody agreed was in keeping with the With the district, so You know, I I think we ought to make sure we're we're not going to Ignore that Good comment. Thank you Uh, Janet Um, I love your presentation marine. I feel like there's just like lots of meat on the bones and um, you're creating visually Just just the I love the data I agree with Doug in that we should include the historic district because they don't prohibit you from adding onto it Just whatever you're adding onto or allowed to has to fit with Um, the building in the neighborhood So, you know, I've seen some projects where people have added units and You know, I don't you know, just they're not they're just not going to look like, um Some a mid-century building unless it unless the neighborhood has those um I think that um In terms of like narrowing your scope, I wouldn't encourage you not to because two things is that You know, it It you know, the apartments are supposed to be near arteries and things like that but places with multifamily development and I went into The assessor's database, which is the only thing I really know how to manipulate And lots of streets that even are sort of off You know the hinterlands have two family houses or you know, two condos on the same law And so I think multifamily development You know, it's a pretty general term and I think, you know, amherst is really progressive We do allow a lot of ways of multifamily housing to happen in the rg already And people have taken You know The zoning bylaw up on it and you may not notice it from the street, but sometimes it's a two or three family house um I have So I I it's really it's really important to me like one one thing I'd love to do is see that number You know, like when you presented the rg, it looks like there's a lot of potential housing In the existing zoning bylaw regulations and so if you could add those numbers up I think it's actually sort of more relevant to me Not when you get to the aspen chase things because those seem sort of the outliers in a sense But I just think if you compare those wrong numbers and if they're kind of close I wonder why we're bothering with footnote m if we can already have a lot of development under existing Zoning bylaw and you know, it's like 30 more units Like why are we going through this exercise that may have different consequences down the road? And one of the consequences would be maybe pushing people to consolidate lots You know and make you know to do bigger and heavier developments Which happened So I I would so I would love to see that run number as I think Doug had mentioned earlier I would love to see what a 3d build out of something of different on different lots So, you know an average lot of 17,000 square feet What is a two acre lot look like? You know with the maximum versus what is allowed now or one and a half acres I think that's going to really matter to people um I think that's it for now, but I do I think this is a great start to this conversation About like what's possible now and you know, what's possible in the future? We actually have numbers and things like that. The other thing I just wanted to say which is maybe too many things to say Is if we take footnote m off of the rg Footnote a is still allowed is still on There's a little tiny footnote a on additional lot coverage. So then it would be go from 4,000 square feet um For apartments and townhouses additional lots we take the m off and little a is still there So that could actually drop below 2,500 which would open up more Areas of units for development. So we might want to consider If we're taking m off, I mean, we should take a off. So at least we know There's a there's a bottom Thank you, Janet um, so i'm wondering about uh, how people feel about that the historical You know district As a as a sub district within the rg based on what maria and uh Doug had said and you know, I don't know if there are any other thoughts on the board um in that regard I was on the fence. I was thinking well, maybe the historic, you know, uh district lots are different, but I I think Doug what Doug said was kind of compelling um Don't know if uh chris Um, I think you should keep the local historic district in the study because it is possible to build things in the local historic district, you know, the planning board went through a Long process with approving the Amherst media building. Um, and that was, you know, very It was an arduous process, but the the landowner really wanted to build that building and people are You know in many cases determined to do things and I think the local historic district certainly does um slow down and Limit what you can do there, but it doesn't prevent doing things there. So I think um, we should really still Still keep that in the mix and there may be um, You know things that come from that. Um, so I would discourage you from eliminating that Okay, uh andrew I was only going to say that I don't think it's actually any extra effort or Like limiting it doesn't I don't think it affects more range work at all like It's it's just it's a query and so like it's just it's not putting filter on so I don't think it's Putting any extra burden. Obviously more ancient comment on that, but Uh, I would agree it seems like you include it and then let's look at it and and if there's some Some learnings from that or some things we want to maybe have some other discussions on that will actually help us understand Whether we want to have this future discussion um Oh, sorry, uh marine. Oh, I was just going to say yeah, it it won't take any it won't um impact me time-wise to include The uh the parcels within the local historic districts. So for my end, it's it's totally fine to keep them Okay, yeah Tom Yeah, thanks marine. This was a really amazing presentation in terms of um, you know helpful for me But I think it was helpful for a lot of people watching so much appreciated Plus your explanation and walking people through the was very educational I think for a lot of people who might not have understood the implications of of this particular footnote um, one of the things I'm interested in and making sure we We talk about and I don't know when that happens and it's a question that might go for for chris robin marine as well as the rest of the group is Footnote m as it exists and maybe a is there enough meat in there to make it an incentive To encourage affordable housing So if we say we will take Footnote m off allow you to build more units But it would require you to put affordable housing in there Is there enough incentive in these numbers to do that and can we look at these numbers not from a What's a scary high number, but actually what are the opportunities in there to leverage for developers and how do we Take advantage of this information that's in front of us to provide new housing for People who could potentially need it within walking distance from downtown Chris do you have any comment on that? well, one of the things that we're going to be talking about later on is our work plan for Developing zoning amendments and one of the zoning amendments that we're working on is beefing up our inclusionary zoning bylaw because we realize that Right now. We're really not getting that many units out of it and we see an opportunity especially with changing The zoning in the bl district and changing zoning in rg and possibly changing it elsewhere in town that You know developers are they want to develop in Amherst and and right now we're kind of feeling like Making the inclusionary zoning bylaw tighter In terms of providing more more affordable units Is is not going to be a disincentive for people to develop here. So I appreciate tom's comment and it's It's part of our thought process. So Hopefully we'll be able to come up with something that will produce more affordable units whether it's through incentives or through a requirement Thank you chris uh What do we have here and do your your hands still up or Okay, uh janet um, so it going forward I would like to have if more information about why footnote m was Adopted and what what it was trying to do and so it seems like it's more has a more impact at the larger Unit buildings than at the smaller, you know, the smaller larger parcels With controlling, you know from going from 43 units to 65 and things like that and so can can we find out Why footnote m was adopted because it obviously went through, you know, the usual process which would be It probably came from the planning board of the planning department or the zoning subcommittee and you know Or maybe maybe citizens brought it forth But it went through the usual machinations and it went in front of this and got approved I think but you know by the planning board then went to the select board who approved it and went to town meeting That approved it by two thirds. So I'd be interested in What why is it there and before I'm kind of hesitant to abandon something without understanding Yeah, I can see how it's working now, especially with Maureen's presentation, but I want to understand the why behind it Yeah, Janet you stole my question Well, Doug took some of mine Why is there footnote m? Doug took some of my questions except I didn't know what to use So that that background is really important to me because I you know to me You know if it was working to stop whatever was bad, you know, we want to know that or what what's the purpose was I'd also be anyway, so Do you know anything chris off of top of your head Um, I have anecdotal I can talk about it anecdotally What I've been told is that it came in as a result of spruce ridge And it's spruce ridge is a development of I think it's 12 units on high street It's an old house an old victorian house and a number of townhouses behind it and the neighbors were very much against that development and The development went through went through the zba then it went through an appeal process So it was kind of a long drawn out thing But um my understanding is that footnote m came in As a result of that project after that project was approved But I will do some digging and see what I can find out if I can find out more about that Thank you, uh, is there any more discussion on this on the footnote m? It looks like we're gonna, you know, we've made a lot of progress today Maria It's real quick. Um, I had thought that the impacts were with the large parcels But was it rob or chris that said actually large parcels are not a non issue because the parking made it Almost impossible to do that jump from like, uh, whatever we had like 40 units to 60 units Was was that why like I when we did our study, we thought oh, right It is the large parcels that are going to have the biggest impacts from footnote m being removed, but Wasn't there mentioned that the parking prevented That scenario from happening or am I remembering wrong from one of the zsc meetings chris. Do you remember that? Chris Um, I think parking and lot coverage and building coverage are all Issues that we need to study and we really haven't studied them yet, but um, it's it's potentially true that parking and lot coverage and building coverage will prevent some of these Properties from being developed to the extent that they could be Just based on the numbers of a lot area and building and that additional lot area that's required in the Um, but I don't feel like we have a sense of that yet Tom Yeah, one of the things I noticed too and more and I don't know if there's a way to look at this and and isolate it Um, was that there were a lot of parcels that went from blank to green Right and there and there were quite a few of them So that means that is that does that in theory mean that they're right now only zone for one? Family But then can potentially become three family units Which is something that if there's a ton of those that does have an impact on the community Around it in a significant way So I'm just wondering if that's what that number means And if it does can we isolate those and see what that looks like in terms of how it might change a particular district or zone um, you know or uh neighborhood in terms of shifting it from a single family to, uh, you know triplex potentially Um, because I don't know that was just something that I noticed right away I know there were a lot of little ones all around that just blipped up from zero to three. So sit down Yeah, uh, just to respond. Yeah, um, I uh, you had a good eye There were a good amount of parcels that could uh, that currently, uh, with given just the lot area Could allow one or two family units With with footnote m and then with the removal of footnote m It reduces the lot area requirement for three units Etc etc. And so that then you suddenly saw, you know, it was blank before but now it's suddenly green And so that that was a really good observation Um from you tom and yeah, I could certainly Isolate those parcels and see uh, look at that closely to see um Of the of the parcels that currently allow one or two family units What could that accommodate with footnote m removed? Yeah, because then you're talking some of them would go from to three and four So I think it's just that would be a drastic change because it was it seemed like a lot That's all just it was because they're just small but there are a lot of them Janet While we're giving Morian things to do um, I think it'd be really helpful if we had um A simple chart showing all the ways that you can add An apartment or two on your house and so You know pretty much everybody can if you have a single family house You can do a supplemental apartment on your house or many people can put one in their backyard So those without increasing the lot the amount of lot coverage And so but you know, I think if people could understand, you know, Notwithstanding footnote m How can you add to a house or how could you look how much how much density can you add to a house in different ways? And so I was very startled to realize that in rn where I live There could be you could put a three you could add three units and or even have a fourplex And so that that was you know, so if people can understand maybe even for each zoning district your residential zoning district how that can happen Regardless of footing on it and and things like that because I think that people just don't know that I mean chris june, I'm saying or moraine. Yeah. Yeah, um, if if I may respond to you so Um, I'm glad that you pointed that out because I just wanted to clarify. Uh, just uh, one or two things is that uh Townhouses apartments duplexes single family homes Those are examples of the principal use on the property A supplemental dwelling unit is accessory to the principal use and under our zoning law for the uh, a supplemental apartments And detached supplemental apartment Um it is only an increase of one unit and um You do not need to um Add additional lot area. You don't need to factor in additional lot area to it So that wouldn't that wouldn't be applicable to this study specifically Uh, just because it's an accessory So if you could just do it like a chart that shows that in Because that people don't understand that you know, you can get that. Um, can I also one question I had is What is the difference between an apartment and a townhouse? Like physically like, you know, does it does Is an apartment can't look like a townhouse, you know, like why would you you know, because you're limited to only 10 Units in a townhouse and you can go up to like 24 with an apartment So like what's actually definitionally the difference between those two other than I think I have a visual in my head But I don't know why Sure, uh, I can um, would you like I could I could pull up the definitions Um, thank you. So, uh, this is I I just opened the zoning bylaw. So this is I opened up to article 12 For definitions and so under um section 12 point of two is the definition for apartments. I'll highlight it And and I'll make it bigger. Okay. Ah too big So it's a residential use Uh consisting of one or more buildings each building containing no fewer than three nor more than 24 dwelling units Apartment dwelling units may share interior access ways in entrances It need not have separate exterior entrances on the ground level Ha, okay. So that's that so that makes sense So each building Uh, it could be between three and 24. Uh, and uh, they may share interior access ways entrances In need not to have separate exterior entrances on the ground level. Okay, so now if we go to Bear with me Townhouse, okay Okay, so now, uh, we'll try to try to highlight this try Try to avoid the toxic or hazardous substances Yeah Don't pay attention to that. Okay, so, um, so townhouse under section 12.51 Um is a residential use consisting of one or more buildings containing no fewer than three Nor more than 10 attached dwelling units Each of which has a separate private entrance on the ground level and where no building is more than three Stories in height Individual townhouse dwelling units extend from foundation to roof and may consist of more than one floor With each unit having fully exposed walls on at least two sides for access light and ventilation You have answered my question. Thank you. Yeah Thank you chris your hand is up Yeah, I wanted to respond to a couple of things that um janet said One is that I did get an email from her earlier this week and I finally responded it to it today um to list out the numbers of ways that you can Add dwelling units in the rg zoning district. So I sent a chart to, um Jack and maria and janet, but I wanted to show it to the planners before I sent it To everyone. Um, so janet could look in her inbox and see that the second thing is um janet made reference to being able to have multifamily dwellings in the Outlying residential districts rn ro and rld so, um Really, that's only possible if you Have a pu rd a planned unit residential development And then you can do things that you're not normally allowed to do in underlying zoning or if you have a um A building that you can convert as a converted dwelling And then you can um, you know, increase the numbers of uh dwelling units, but for the average Person the average situation you're really not allowed to go beyond one or two Um dwelling units in those outlying districts. We do have um, you know, some examples of Of other kinds of things like um hamster village down near adkins corner And that is part of a pu rd and we have um Apple wood and that's part of a pu rd So there are examples where these things are located in pu rd is also echo hill But um, generally speaking, um, there's not An allowance for multifamily houses in the outlying residential districts rn ro or rld Great, so I I think we're wrapping this item a up, but i'm just i'm wondering about what the planning board Members think in terms of the the dynamics of this discussion on the zoning priorities compared to the zoning subcommittee and you know What are we missing? Is there um, you know, is there enough interaction Just looking for general comments You know, because we're going to have a series of these meetings for the next two months Um, and and see how we can you know do this You know and and capture the zoning the field the zoning subcommittee Uh within the formal planning board meetings maria I think that um with this number of people we can't quite have that unmute situation So I I like you sort of calling on people and I feel like we're still having a dialogue like it's not just people sort of Saying their thing and ignoring what the previous person said. So I think that it's been pretty good. I think also if more people bring things it's I guess um Gets more of the board members really into the meat of the matter rather than just watching marine bring things week after week so I guess um, if anyone has You know things that they want to bring or suggest or a thing that they've suggest the marine that they can do themselves um, maybe that's worth Bringing because for the zse we were the ones in the meeting bringing stuff So if anyone hides idea, I know jenna you mentioned some items. I mean, maybe that's something you can do uh, dug you had already started a chart on some of the Numbers, maybe it's modifying that chart. Um I had some maps that um, I could try to match what marine had and just keep tabs on you know Where some properties I think might pop up that would be interesting to really focus and on and see You know, um implications of so I think if if more of us can um Be proactive in bringing things. Um, not sure what it is this week, but maybe after we get into it We can be more specific about what we want to bring But otherwise I think the dialogue and the information has been very technical or very involved It's not like we're just touching the surface. So um, I don't know what other people think Yeah, I I I again I learned so much about about this in such, you know, a short manner. Thank you marine. That was Just, uh, you know, excellent. So I you know, I invite all the plain board members, you know sending emails to chris If you have an idea and and and let her know that you might be presenting something uh on the particular, you know A zoning priority Item that will be coming up and and we can, you know, work it in and certainly want to use it because we again, we all have uh different expertise Uh And can bring a lot of value to the discussion janna um Will will we have can we see marines charts in like are they going to be Online or are they in the packet or something because I'd like to look at them more thoroughly I I didn't have as quick an eye as dug and others Um, and then I think there's somebody who wants to make a comment from in our in our public Okay Chris Your hand is up. Yeah, so I wanted to say that we are intending to post marines Presentation tonight. We're going to post it on the planning board web page under Packets and so people will be able to go there and look at it And that the same is true of the presentation that rob and I are going to give them a little while So I guess, you know taking public, uh Comment on this seems reasonable And maybe we should just you know, I guess a discussion chris maria Whether there should be a public comment period specific to what we discussed On a zoning priority item subsequent to our discussion Maybe we can put that on future agendas before we let pam speak um Does that sound reasonable chris? Um, I think it's it's up to the chair, uh, you know depending on what the time frame is like, um, okay Well, I think three minutes. Yes. I think that's reasonable. Yep. Yeah, okay So let's put that in future agendas a little public comment period subsequent to the planning board discussion and just so We allow that to happen. So uh pan you want to Yeah, can I just ask you a question first because I think I misunderstand. So that will become an agenda item or it will To talk about that or it will become an agenda item to allow public comment after your presentations Well, I know I just think that that because there's only subcommittee. I remember discussion Someone that there would be public comment At the zoning subcommittee based on things so the initial public comment period. They don't you know, they haven't really understood what we're talking about and now They you know would like to have some Period of time to you know, they digested what we talked about and then you know another you know Period of time there, uh same rules, you know, say three minutes each and then Um, I and I understand I was confused I wasn't quite sure if it was going to be an agenda item for you all to talk about and I wanted to make sure I got that clear No, it's kind of like an a1 and then a2 a2 So, uh, all right because because officially we don't We don't need we we it's not a public hearing. So we don't Uh, correct me if we're wrong chris, but we don't have to have public comment on this But again, we're kind of trying to capture the zoning subcommittee You know You know what what works within the zoning subcommittee and public comment was certainly You know part of that so may I just say that I think public comment is really good in these kinds of meetings because We find out what people's concerns are and they may their comments may shape You know what you propose in the end. So I think it's perfectly reasonable to take public comment As long as you know, it's within the time frame that you have in mind Okay. Yeah, so it's eight o'clock now. We're an hour and a half in I know, you know, uh We don't want to You know go too long and we have a presentation by rob and and chris On their presentation to the crc. So we definitely want to you know hear that but certainly uh, pan and uh, ira Can we can bring each of those in and they have three minutes each Hi, pan Hi again, uh, and thanks. I think since you have but you're not holding a separate Zoning subcommittee meeting I think it really I really appreciate the opportunity to just speak about the topic that you're working on Because I think we're all working on the same topics. So I do appreciate that Given that I think one of the Um The goals of the crc for getting some of this information and for looking at footnote m Is that we're really trying to gauge capacity for additional housing housing or at least in the rg And I wonder if more in your your graphics are great I think it's really helpful to see graphically, you know, how how things line up Uh, what occurs to me though is if you're Have existing units on I would say every parcel in the rg And I think what we're really looking for we have a baseline capacity and some some are single family some are duplexes We have a subdividable Dwelling unit up on moral lane. So we know that the capacity is x today So it it occurs to me that um Your map might be existing capacity And then The second round is possible units now if people have a lot over 17,000 square feet It means they could actually have developed a subdividable dwelling where they could have had something or actually a like a duplex So we have we have today's baseline condition And then we have the possible units now. It's just that, you know, Pam Rooney hasn't built that sdu in the back of her, you know in her barn um, and then we have possible units with foot leaving Eliminating footnote m So that footnote m really only comes into play when you're talking about Units of three or more when when you're actually dealing dealing with an apartment itself um I would like to add I I do hope that you get to footnote a because I think somebody mentioned it earlier Footnote a obviously is also starting to affect lot coverage and building coverage I think that's pretty critical when you're talking about a fairly dense neighborhood already So that's that's something for the future and then also for the marine for the graphics um The that range of green is so slight that my eyes don't differentiate between You know 10 units and 11 units and 12 and I wonder if maybe you have The growth capacity of say three to 10 additional units as greens Maybe 11s to 20 as blues and so you'd get a range of color Schemes so that you kind of get blocks of bigger volume as opposed to a one by ones And that would be lovely and you did a really nice job. So thanks for letting me speak jack Thank you, pan Ira hi, ira. Hi. How are you? Hi, ira. He's on you. Yeah, okay Thank you for letting me speak again. It does seem like a lot of the biggest differences when I look at the slides of number of units allowed per foot per square foot if you now are allowed eight your your Your number would go from nine to 24 If you're now allowed nine i'm reading this but at nine at 11 11 is a Is more than a double increase at 12 is more than a double increase at 14 Is a triple increase at 16 is a six time increase There are certain numbers on here and people were saying like let's look at how many Could actually be increased. There's a lot of numbers on here that Really are where the huge increases in population and density And apartments replacing houses really can happen And i'm not hearing any of you express the concern that i'm feeling maybe i'm not understanding what could happen to this neighborhood But i'm guessing that you're not Really seeing the number of additional units that can really be built in neighborhoods that are typically smaller lots and more You know cozy character of the neighborhood places. I think there's going to be a huge impact on character in the neighborhood at certain Sizes on this chart. So thank you very good All righty, so can we move on? Oh, uh dorthy pan dorthy pan Hi dorthy. You are on mute. There you go. I'm good. Okay um In the charts, which are really exciting, but they do go by kind of fast When you see them I think you really do have to put the parking in there because so many things in the rg Would not be allowed once you put parking in and parking is a major issue And um, I think that if you expand to a triplex For example, I live in amity. There's no parking on the street on amity at all. So and on lincoln the residents have been told that their parking on the street really belongs to the public and it doesn't That's really okay because most of them actually do have driveways and park in the driveway So their concern is being able to get out of the driveway So I think if you do and this is also for the supplemental dwellings Um, I could put several in my backyard But I don't really know what I could do unless I paved all of my green in front of the house I wouldn't be able to deal with the parking. So The visual picture would be I think more realistic um I do think I also think that what you're saying is the chances of increasing density are more likely to happen um And a small incremental way. I think this is what tom was saying um One family maybe adding one unit or maybe two up to three And I could I could see that working in lots of ways, but the parking has to be factored in So that's just my suggestion. Thank you Thank you, Dorothy Uh chris. I mean to what extent is Is there an allowance for for the parking? You know in this in in the dimensions that are Referenced here. Well, I think one of the things that moraine was planning to do Moving forward was to take some particular lots and do You know build out scenarios on them which would include, you know, looking at Lot coverage building coverage and parking. Okay, so she's going to come up with examples, you know from different Parts of the rg district different sizes of lots. Um to give people an idea of what might happen Okay That's based on the input that she got today. She's gonna Do that and certainly not don't do all the lots but just a few kind of Characteristic ones and and just so we get the gist of Yep, how things fit great great Uh That one additional hand has oh, Elizabeth Elizabeth, um Elizabeth I have allowed you to talk. All right. Yes. Thank you very much. Uh, Elizabeth Birling 36 Cotted street and yes. Thank you. Um, again particularly marine for These explanations that have clarified a whole lot of things that I was unaware of Uh, also, I I must admit I have an extremely naive question that Um, maybe you could clarify and that is I don't understand the definition of a unit What actually what actually is a unit? What does that mean as far as number of people's size, etc? Uh, my other my other question is What we're talking about parcels, but what stops Combination of parcels. So if a developer Is able to buy two neighboring parcels does that then mean that suddenly this can become a X number unit apartment building where before there were just two single family homes and my third question is trying to understand What is the pressure for this change? Given what appears to be the current possibility for quite a bit of development Having looked at these maps today So those are just some questions that I hope perhaps can be addressed Um in future meetings. Thank you Chris do you want to Speak to that? I mean, I know It's getting kind of late. So maybe I could address these in future meetings. I think they're a legitimate question Yeah, I mean, I think you know part of the master plan is increasing densification Into the downtown area and the rg is residential within the downtown, but um, certainly, uh What was it? Elizabeth you're welcome to email And there it'd probably be more probit for an email Um Given the general or a phone call or a phone call. There you go wants to call me. Um phone call Chris is yeah, I'd be happy to speak with you or I will try to answer these questions in a future meeting Great. So, uh, let's move on to the update on the zoning priorities work plan that that robin and chris presented To the crc was it last night? It was yesterday afternoon Yeah, they'd meet in the afternoon. Okay So if pam can bring up that presentation That would be great. I'm gonna do my best To do it as quickly as marine marine's a pro he is a whiz He did great Thanks, pam. Can you see it? Yeah, so this is going to be a joint effort by um, rob mara and myself Um, so my name is christine breastrup and I'm the planning director and the building commissioner rob mara And I would like to present an updated work plan to you On the zoning bylaw amendments that the town council asked us to work on We presented a draft version of this, um, presentation at your meeting last week when you met with the crc and um Yesterday, we presented an updated version, which is what you're going to see tonight And that's why this Version has yesterday's date on it because it we presented it to the crc Um, so you've seen several of these slides before so i'm going to skim the first few So pam can I have the next slide? So as you know on january 4th town council Boated to direct the town manager to present zoning amendments to the town council And so we are um, we work for the town manager So we're working with him to get these uh zoning amendments prepared And the zoning amendments were were divided into two groups by the town council based on when they expected to have them presented um, and Recently the building commissioner and I have assessed the list And we've come up with this work plan, which we think will achieve the stated goals um next slide, please So the next slide shows um, what the town council had asked for what their priorities were for the first Phase and there are a number of things here. I think there might be eight different things here and next slide please And this is the second phase the second phase was to come later Possibly at the end of the summer and they also asked us to look into hiring a consultant to um develop design guidelines and we are We are working on that Next slide, please So, uh, as you could see we had a lot of priorities given to us by town council And we needed to prioritize the priorities and figure out what could we actually accomplish this spring And what can we realistically have adopted by june 2021? So that's what we're working on now And um, rob is going to talk about the next For for slides, I guess. Yep So next slide, please Yes, hi, this is rob more of the bill and commissioner So we had to make some choices on what we could reasonably move ahead with with the time frames We were looking at and we pulled from the town council list of these four items that you see bolted there with the goal of presenting Amendment packages for the march 9th meeting to the crc So this includes the bl zoning district with the focus on how do we allow more housing? Uh, the elimination of footnote m which of course you've been talking about for a little bit now The supplemental dwelling units and then the apartments definition We'll talk more about those in a minute in a little bit more detail But we also are incorporating What we're calling the planning department list of items that we feel need to go along with these The mixed use building definition and standards and inclusion area zoning Requirements or key items to To go along with the conversation for particularly the bl district, but in other areas as well Reconvocation you've heard about by now that has been Something we've been working on for a little while. We do have The focus on reformatting correcting errors Um cleaning up some of the definitions and references throughout the document making it a a Clean more presentable usable by-law Before we start adding in inserting these amendments. So we're moving that along at the same time You're very well aware of flood maps and the demolition delay Is a draft by-law that's uh being worked on Currently by the historic commission and we expect to hear more about that In the coming months next slide, please So to talk about the bl district What we want to do is focus on two areas two bl locations north of triangle street and west of north pleasant street The options, you know are laid out here But you know the recommendation that came to us from the council was to add The bl district to footnote b So the staff has started looking at this in depth and you know, we certainly don't believe that's the best option at the moment And and going to create or going to suggest a couple of other alternatives you know one highlighted below that is the idea of an overlay district with a designating an area for The more dense development where we want to see that close to the front edge of the property Along the street line and we want to make sure we're incorporating appropriate design standards So we we have a concept that we're working on that will be bringing to you Possibly next week, but we'll talk about that. I guess be into this presentation Another option is to just create an entirely new zoning district And address that with the dimensional standards and design standards. I would like to see Next slide, please Elimination of footnote m. So you've been talking about that and we're going to continue to Provide the analysis with maureen's assistance and all the good work She's doing to help figure out what the best approach is and what what it really means to to Go ahead with that idea of eliminating the footnote and next slide Chris Oh, so, um, yeah, we're looking at supplemental dwelling units and right now supplemental dwelling units are limited in size to 800 square feet Or 900 square feet if they're fully handicapped accessible What we're looking at is the possibility of expanding them to a thousand square feet That was something that came before the town meeting in the spring of 2018 and it did have a lot of support, but for various reasons Most of which had to do with the fact that town council was Going to be taking its seat in december Town count town meeting was reluctant to Approve that change. So we're looking at that again and we're trying to figure out Exactly what the right number is. We're also looking at the recently approved state law that has allowed accessory dwelling units up to 900 square feet by By but what they call by right, which means not by special permit So that's kind of factoring into our discussion And we're we're looking at whether the size of the supplemental unit should relate to the size of an existing house So in other words, if you have a very large House on your property then Adding an accessory dwelling unit or a supplemental dwelling unit that's a thousand square feet may Be fine and it may look like an accessory dwelling unit But if you have a smaller house, you know, if you have a 1200 square foot house Maybe adding a supplemental dwelling unit of a thousand square feet Just is not the right scale for the house for the lot or for the neighborhood. So we're looking at that We're analyzing what dimensional requirements should apply to supplemental dwelling units Should it be the same as the existing house? In other words, should it be allowed to be as tall as the existing house? Or should it be limited in some way and would the setbacks be different? And we're looking at finding examples of existing supplemental dwelling units in our town and there are also Examples in surrounding towns. So we're hoping to bring some pictures of those into the discussion And we're researching how other towns handle supplemental dwelling units. Next slide, please We're looking at the definition of apartments As we spoke about during marines presentation The definition of apartments now is a building that is between three and 24 units And we're looking at whether that still makes sense that that limitation was put on I believe back in the 70s When there were a lot of apartment developments popping up in South Amherst and North Amherst and So we need to figure out does that make sense for us today? We're considering looking re-looking at a proposal that came about a few years ago Where there's only a subcommittee thought perhaps there should be two classes of apartments class one, which would be Consistent with the current definition up to 24 units and class two, which would be 25 units or more And I think they were imagining capping it at 75, but we haven't really talked about that yet so and the other thing about apartments is that Apartments are limited in the type of units That can be built in the in the building To no more than 50% of any one type and what we're seeing in mixed-use buildings these days is that There's a desire on the part of developers to build Small units many of them either studios or one bedrooms and is that appropriate or should we provide larger apartments that could house a family or You know a small family a couple So anyway, that's that's a topic that is important and design standards What do we want in terms of the The way these things look So that's I know that's going to be a topic that's Interesting a lot of people next slide, please Let's see is this one that rob was going to talk about or me Yeah, so we do think it's really important to bring Bring the mixed-use building standards back to the discussion particularly with the possibility of larger Coverages and and dense building development in the bl district But you know one option is to to deal with that within the changes that we're making to the bl district but we also think looking at that it might be an appropriate time to address this More in the general use classification of the building and have it apply to all the districts Where an excuse building would be Possibly proposed So that's defining it the amount of area where the commercial space would be required the mix of unit sizes And whether or not parking Is allowed and how much allowed on the ground floor Next slide, please Along the same lines. We're you know really interested in looking at the inclusionary Zoning by-law requirements at this time For the same reasons with the changes that we're we're considering in bl But you know one you know one option that we think is worthy of you know bringing forward for discussion and would be a somewhat simple change to our by-laws to Have it apply to all development that occurs not just the Development that occurs by special permit that you know has been the way it's been handled in the past and this is for develop Developments that include new units 10 or more new units And the only exception that we see to that at this point would be Your standard residential subdivision Next slide, please So recodification I talked about that a little bit You know changing the format renumbering reference Corrections throughout Some interpretations clarifying them or adding interpretations on the things we deal with day to day We'd like to look at definitions that are really going to be dependent on how much time we have and how far we go with that But it might be as simple as that much of the reformatting is already completed We did show that in one of the crc meetings Month or two months ago so we'll bring that forward in the coming weeks so that everyone can see what that's looking like and Like I said with those probably minimal changes at this time Next slide, please So we're looking at schedule. It's really aggressive schedule Starting yesterday with the crc meeting to kind of kick off this work plan As you know, your your weekly meetings were key that decision that was made last week to to really Give us a place to talk and work through these these issues as they're being developed with the goal of Making it to the 23rd the crc meeting on the 23rd to give the the the group a progress update On what we've been working on as staff what we've been working on with the planning board and zone and subcommittee And then continue that work with with the feedback we get there And the overall goal is to get to the march 9th meeting with A package to present on these these amendments that we just outlined in this this work plan From there if we're successful with that Accomplishing that you know from there, we expect the crc to spend some amount of time developing they're still developing their process on how they're going to handle this but holding their meetings and working with the Getting the the public participation that they want to get through this effort and have us respond to all the questions and recommendations that come out of that that process that could go on for a month two months until it's ready to be sent off to the council as a request to consider a bylaw amendment Which would begin the formal process that you are more familiar with Where the the public hearing process begins to consider adopting The bylaw amendments So that's the end of our our presentation. Thanks Pam You're welcome Looks like Rob I'm sorry I just wanted to say we wanted to bring you up to speed so that you were Familiar with what we had just told us crc yesterday Thank you. So I I was under the I'm I may sound really stupid, but the public hearings with the zoning bylaws. I thought that was All on the town council as a legislative body but You know, so there was yeah, there was still be planning board public hearing Public hearings. I believe um chris knows this workflow really well, but I believe they're joined They're intended to be joint hearings with the crc So once a package or proposal is delivered to the town council to request a bylaw amendment they will Refer it to the planning board and crc to begin that that hearing process before They start holding their first and second reads of it and actually get to the point where they would consider adopting it So it begins the process and there's a there's a workflow Chart that describes that that was worked on by the crc in the planning board months ago Yeah, because I I thought that I I thought we would just be recommending But I guess it's in a hearing format. I I don't know Chris so The state law requires that the planning board hold a public hearing on any zoning amendments that are proposed And the planning board makes a recommendation to town council Town council has made A decision a kind of policy decision That they would prefer to have the planning boards public hearing held jointly with the crc And I think what they're trying to do is just make sure that all of the conversation happens in the same place and everybody Here's everybody else and understands what everybody else is saying Um, there may be times when we don't want to do that, but I think for now It's it's a good idea to do that So we'll hold joint public hearings and then the crc will make its report to town council And the planning board will make its report. They'll take separate votes So the planning board will vote to make a recommendation and the crc will vote to make a recommendation And then it goes to town council and as rob said they have the first reading And then they have a second reading where they would normally take a vote Thank you for that Sorry for my Not remembering I guess so janet um Chris, can you just can you send that? Sort of memorandum of understanding that we had that process chart between the crc the planning board and the town council and the Because that might be the perfect moment for that refresher, especially for our new members. Yeah, so I have I have like three things but um So my my first one is I I attended and we're just listening to the crc meeting and I My question these 12 zoning priorities, which I read as a motion The town council asking the town manager to ask you to draft these amendments specifically And so I saw I saw that as very um concrete and specific But the crc members were describing these 12 zoning priorities as suggestions and recommendations and it seemed very fluid to them And so my question is are all the 12 priorities on the table um Do you see it as that specific or is it just like take a look at these things and You know work on them and bring them back to us in some form or with a recommendation and so I just was very confused about that and um So and also i'm just so do you feel like as the planning department you have to bring You know spiff six or you know four specific amendments On june 1st or is it more fluid because it sounded super fluid yesterday and I was sort of relieved because there's so much on the table Um, that should I just ask that question then ask my next one What do you want to do jack? Do you want us to answer the questions as they come? I kind of spaced out. I'm so sorry It's getting late Every questions, but that's a big one like you know are are all the priorities still on the table as specific zoning amendments or are they Is this a recommendation by the council for the planning department and planning board to look at these You know or suggestions. They were described as recommendations. Okay So I think we were a little Confused about that in the beginning, but I think we've gotten a better sense of of what's going on now um Those were we went we planning board and the planning department went to the council and said You know look we don't want to work on things that you're not going to vote for So why don't you tell us what you think you would vote for and then we'll work on those things Tell us the priorities that you have that you think would be important to pass and so they gave us their best Um attempt at giving us a list of things that they felt were important and that they could pass So then we took that list and based on conversations that we had with the town manager and with the chair of the crc and the chair of the um town council we Came to understand that um, these things that they have asked us to do are representative of issues that they Recognize in other words, um Putting the bl district into footnote b or however you say that that was indicative of the fact that the bl district Can't accommodate residential development at this point. So Think about what you can do about that and come up with something So they asked us or the town manager asked us to Look at this long list of things that town council asked us to produce and to tell him Well, what do you think you can do because he knows that we have Site plan review and we have you know the Pomeray lane intersection and we have North square and rob has all kinds of things going on in his world So the town manager asked us to realistically look at the list and say, okay Well, what makes sense to do together? And I think that this package of things makes sense to do together and then how when can you get it done? And their idea was that we might be able to get six things done by March 15th Well, we came back and said well, we don't think we can get six things done but we can probably get four things in a In a draft form that will give to you and then you can start working on them by March 9th So it's a back and forth conversation. I don't think it's hard and fast. It's not, you know, set in concrete But they've given us a list of things that they want us to work on and we will strive to work on those and produce them at a time when we In a timely manner to the best of our ability and maybe rob has something more to add to that I think I would just add that it might be that we go to CRC and explain why we're not moving forward with one of the recommendations So I think as staff, you know, it was written as a directive We've talked about it over the the recent weeks and learned more about what The group involved feels about it now, which has been really helpful But we do want to address the items and and this is the first package and then I think we'll continue to address the other items But there'll be, you know, the staff's recommendation may be that we're not moving forward with an amendment or not proposing an amendment at the time So we'll see how all this develops Okay, that that helps me a lot. My second question is um You know, I was you know, just like I was thinking Oh, maybe the next meeting we'll talk about the bl issues because we had a great start on that in the zoning subcommittee But then there's also you're working on mixed use supplemental dwelling units. I don't want to panic anybody um apartment definition recodification iz um And my question is how is the planning we're going to work or get Clued into that because that's that's a lot and so and that leads into my third question is How can the public stay involved and updated because it's kind of like a fire hose It's like drinking from a fire hose if if we're looking at that many changes by or a lot of work by june 1st You know, I think it seems intimidating to me But I can imagine the public will be mystified by this or have trouble trying to figure out how to stay involved or unaware So the first question is like How what's the planning board role on a lot of these priorities that you're working on? or issues Like it like mixed use and izzy and apartment dwelling and supplemental dwelling units Are we going to be taking those up week by week? Are we gonna or? I think um, you know rob and I have to have a conversation and we have to have a conversation with our staff, but um, you know, I think what we're planning to do is Give you presentations on each of these things similar to what moraine gave you tonight Unfortunately, you know because we're in such a compressed time frame We weren't able to send that out to you so you could study it before she presented it You'll be able to look at it online after she's presented and and we will be talking about footnote m again So it's going to be kind of a a fluid Not necessarily formal cut and dried process but we'll be giving you information as we get it and You know hoping that you'll be able to absorb it and we will try to Write our agendas. I think we did a pretty good job this time of writing our agendas to Let the public know what it is we're doing and I've had Some back and forth with some of the people who were attendees tonight about where they can find information So I directed them to the planning board packets I understand from talking to and Janet was at this meeting yesterday the crc They have a group of people who are working on an outreach process for them And it's going to include a survey of residents and I believe they're planning on setting up a website So I asked them specifically if We should be setting up our own website or if they were going to set up a website Should we coordinate somehow and so that is a conversation that is currently occurring We don't really know exactly What their plan is but we don't want to Duplicate it because that would add to the confusion So I think it's an ongoing conversation with crc about exactly how they're planning to do outreach But we're doing our best to respond to questions that come in and to get things online And we will put marines presentation and we'll put our presentation about You know the work plan online. I've asked pem to do that tomorrow And so, you know, it's it's going to be a it's a work in progress, but we're doing our best to get the information out Thank you for that. That's really helpful In terms of web pages, I would hope that the planning department would do it because you guys just You get it more like you have more documents and you understand the details And so I think if they were opening up a website, it would be kind of like a learning experience I think you guys you know, you've done that before for different projects and I think it'd be easier You know like to take presentations and to say here's this one from this day And people would naturally go to the planning department for information. So I hate to add to your workload, but I think I think you'd do it better and faster. Basically. Well, they are working with it Okay town council and crc are working with it. We have pem and she's great But um pem's only, you know one person. So we do Do that is great. Um, Pam What it has More people than just one person. So Anyway, we we are We have it in mind that the public needs to know about this and Unfortunately, you know, we've got six people tonight. We had several people last week We had people at the crc yesterday. So bit by bit. This will all be coming out. We hope Thank you Tom Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on that conversation. Um, both janet and chris Um about kind of the engaging with the public and the sort of public engagement aspect of what we're trying to do um, I was I had multiple conversations with uh, shallony from crc um, and one of the things that I've been interested in is the um The I guess the the human-centric approach to planning and visioning and design um one one that um Where some of our needs originate from the community rather than things that are being topped down sort of delivered by What others see as priorities and in this way? Meeting some of the inclusionary issues that we're missing as this collection of shall I say white people? I'm trying to put together a planning board. Um, so I'm I'm working with shallony to try to develop some kind of working group Maybe um With her as a liaison, but but for a long to build a long term process For how we engage with the public How we do it in an inclusionary way how we build a broader set of communications with a broader cross-section of our community To bring their interests and needs and issues to the table in a way that we're not doing right now Now we know that this is not going to have a be able to be done to impact what we're doing today and for the next few months But this is a process that we believe We can start to implement and sort of experiment with how it might work with the different kinds of processes that we work on in the community That being said, um, I'm also working We've also had many discussions about how to build these kinds of surveys and questionnaires that really probe people's More human experiences within the community Places that they feel Are safe places that they feel are Inclusionary or exclusionary and trying to figure out how we actually ask Meaningful questions of the community for their feedback as we make these decisions going forward So those I'm working with with her to try to build those questions out over the next few weeks but um, but I would like at some point for us to have a more robust conversation about um Inclusionary community engagement process and how it might impact our work and whether that happens again it's it's a long-term project, but I'd like us to Engage with that in the future But just to know in the short term that I'm working with Shaolin the on trying to address some of those questions as a kind of liaison between CRC and The planning board so if there's questions or issues I can try to keep you abreast of that Sounds great. Thank you. Tom good. Good to hear your Uh, your voice on an initiative like that. So so, uh, I think We're close to perhaps winding up our conversation and the zoning priorities Uh, if we haven't already is there any more discussion? I see none. Okay. Um, so Pam and Chris I'm wondering about these other items when when we have a zoning priority focus Maybe these shouldn't be on here Um, we're taking advantage of you. You can ignore everything Starting with item six from item six down. You can ignore Okay, okay. So you want to do all business new business? No, you don't need to oh item four. Excuse me. I'm gonna backwards Yeah, yeah, yeah Item four to the end just oh good. Okay, so we can kind of just nothing to talk about just Jern a jern Uh, love it Thank you. This is great for me. I really loved the discussions that we had Um learned a lot what you have been discussing in the zoning subcommittee Um, so hopefully the other members felt This was a good format as well Okay, thank you all good night. Oh, wait a minute. Mr. Marshall has his hand up I don't want y'all to go home too soon. Okay. I wondered whether um, this is a question maybe for marine since you've demonstrated your your uh gis acumen I think it would be interesting to see where all the affordable units in town are now My suspicion is they are not downtown And they are in outlying areas that are difficult to access on foot so, you know I mean other other than the parry apartments, which I don't know if they have any official affordable units You know, I don't know what else is downtown. So um an whale and apartments clark house That's probably 188 units right there and there are others scattered around gene elder, which is up by um It's up a little bit north of the roundabout um So there are affordable units Scattered around downtown and we're gonna have a 20 28 more on north hampton road coming along But I think it is a good idea to map them Great Alrighty, thank you very much everybody Yes, see you in a week. Thank you. Thanks. Alrighty