 Hello everybody, we're live. Hi. Hello. We're in the video version of the hack chat that's going on over there. Yes. Over there that you see. Pass the keyboards. Let us know if everything's working out with audio and video. Yes. I'm going to mic. This is Lamar, the founder and engineer at Adafruit. So, I'm an engine director and as a matter of disclosure, I founded Hackaday, but I have nothing to do with it right now. I'm just a person who works at Adafruit that likes Hackaday, likes the content, likes doing the hack chats, likes Python, likes keyboards. And we can go through. You like a lot of things. I like a lot of things. Good for you. And then we'll go through our list of people here about Dan, Scott, Katny. Sorry. Jeff, Scott, Katny, Dan, can you do your intros? Hi. I'm Jeff Hepler. I've been working on Circuit Python for a couple of years now. And I've also enjoyed mechanical keyboards for a long time. I was on a Model M and now I'm on a self-built keyboard and building more. So, having fun with it. Hello. My name is Scott. I'm the first person to work on MicroPython for Adafruit, which then became Circuit Python. And I've done Circuit Python keyboards a long time. This is one I made early on. This is probably running, I don't know, Circuit Python one or two. Once we had USB HID support, but I made this. It has a feather kind of soldered to custom PCB. But I do use a keyboardio keyboard as my day-to-day driver. All right. So I'm Katny. I've been with Adafruit since 2017. I handle the libraries and a lot of the guides that come with all of our products. In terms of keyboards, I've only been into mechanical keyboards within the last couple of years, I guess. And I've never built my own, but I am looking forward to that becoming a lot easier to do, especially with Circuit Python. And I'm Dan. I've been working on Circuit Python for Adafruit. It'll be four years next month, August 2017. And in terms of keyboards, I most recently have implemented the native keypad module, which is in the upcoming version of Circuit Python 700, which has various ways of scanning keyboards fast in the background. Okay. All right. I also typed into the hack chat, folks. If you're doing video, you also have to do the type in. Yeah, put your interest in. So type in a rough estimate, because we got to do both. All right. And I'm Lamar. I'm the founder and lead engineer at Adafruit. And historically, I'm not a huge keyboard person, to be honest. Like I had a dull, quiet key that was really good for a while until my wrist started hurting a little bit too much. But here's one cool thing about keyboards. They're not affected by the silicon shortage. You can get key switches and mechanical stuff. And so while we're kind of living through this timeline where a lot of chips are not available, I thought we'd spend a few months at Adafruit and focus on keyboards because a lot of people that is their introduction to electronics and crafting and making, because people are using keyboards all the time. Why not have a cool keyboard? So we just released a lot of hardware that uses keycaps, key switches and keyboards, and you'll see it filtering into the Adafruit shop and, of course, libraries and code that are appearing on the Adafruit GitHub as well. All right. So Dan, why don't you start getting collecting questions? Not our Dan. Sorry. Not Dan Halbar. Hi. Dan M. But also people can type any questions they want any time because that's kind of what I do. I'm going to type in my thing into the chat now. Yeah. And if there are no questions, I'll help kick it off too. Like why would you... Okay. Here's stuff. It looks like there's going to... Things are coming in. Yeah. Well, what I was just typing into the chat was what I like about the way this is working in CircuitPython is actually coding your whole keyboard from top to bottom is really short now. I mean, a program like KMK or QMK is really intimidating and what you have to write in CircuitPython feels a lot less intimidating to me. So thanks for writing those modules, Dan. It helped bridge a gap that we needed to fill. All right. We got some questions. Aren't there some chips and keyboards that could be in short supply? And then so why would someone want to make their own keyboard? So we can answer these in the chat. So really there's only two chips that we see in DIY keyboards and that's the key scanner slash USB interface. And good news. You can use almost any chip, right? It's not like, oh, if I need Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, you really need a Wi-Fi or Bluetooth chipset. If you want... If you need something... It's very hard to replace something like a Nordic or ESP32. Those are very specific chips. Something that can scan a bunch of keys and emit HID code. It's like pretty much any microcontroller these days. A lot of keyboards even use 8-bit micros, like the Atmega 32U4. And then we are playing around with using the RP2040 because it just got released. And so like it kind of squeezed through this silicon shortage, but it's also got a lot of pans and it's got great USB support with 10 USB. Okay, one more is going to put that in the chat. I'm cracking, but just be aware. I can't type and talk at the same time. It is hard. So I decided to make my first keyboard because I wanted to also know the software that went into it and be able to modify it. And while there were some choices out there, I ended up finding a 3D printed design and just put an 8-bit microcontroller in it. This is actually the second iteration. This is a fully 3D printed case. No circuit board just hand-wired inside. And I think it's an itsy-bitsy M4. And it just gives me control over what is in my keyboard. And I like it. And also just the exercise. I learned a lot. And then you just did the calculator. Yeah. A form of keyboard. Yeah. So this guy was a recent guide on the learn system. It has a custom PCB in it, a bunch of diodes, and then a feather microcontroller back behind the display. Yeah, that was fun. But now I have lots to type into the chat. So bear with me. So I answered a question on the chat that was not keyboard-related, but I was asking about the future of CircuitPython on the ESP32-C3, which is Espresso's upcoming RISC-5 core chip. And they were excited because it was both Elie and USB, but that is not, in fact, the case. The USB peripheral on the C3 is this weird, like, limited serial converter. It is not a full USB peripheral, which means we wouldn't be able to use the C3 for USB, HAD, or USB mass storage. So in terms of CircuitPython, the answer for how we would get CircuitPython running on the C3 is through BLE, not through USB. And we do have BLE-HAD support. We do. Even though I personally am not a fan of BLE keyboards, there are some times you want them. So if you're using one of our native Bluetooth CircuitPython board, actually, even the UART friend can do HAD. But the interface can do 840, of course, supports it wonderfully. And then, Dan, did we get, we didn't get BLE Classic working, or BLE HAD working on the ESP32-S2, right? That was ESP32 Airlift, I think. It's only, I think it's, is it only, Matt, is it only BLE Stemful right now? I can't remember. I don't remember. I think it's pretty much the NNR 52840. It's a good chip, though. And then Dan asks about whether we would use shift registers for keyboards. Isn't that another chip? And if there's actually no, most keyboards I've seen do not use shift registers. They use a key scan matrix, which means you only need diodes, which is a lot cheaper and a lot easier to manage because you don't need a chip and pull-ups for every single input to the M74X series. So, you know, I have done key matrices with 74 logic, like this Oxbox used 74HC165. In hindsight, I don't know why I did that other than I think I actually ran out of pins. But it's pretty rare. Usually people use key matrices. And then I think there was a question that came by. Maybe I'll answer it is, or maybe Dan did. It was, any progress on the US QWERTY keyboard mapping in CircuitPython, something friendly for a developer to create mapping for their country language? I think, Dan, did you answer that one? Yeah, so we, right now we put the Adafruit HID library. We freeze it into some builds like specifically from the Circuit Playground Express. And that build is really full right now. So it would be nice to add more keyboard layouts to that library. We can't do that right now because it would make it just too big. So we'd like to do some refactoring in that library and enable adding extra libraries that do non-US layouts but still rely on the base code that's in that library. And that's kind of in progress but in suspended animation right now. There's some discussion going on in the issues in the Adafruit HID library. If you'd like to take a look. All right, this one is from George. I typed it in and I'm going to answer it. It says, I love the idea of CircuitPython to create your own custom keyboards or macros. My son can now follow up and make his own changes without having to compile or try to understand traditional programming languages such as C just to get started. Yeah, that's the cool part is you get that first like five-minute experience where you can make your own thing and then you can dig deeper for as long as you want to go all the way down to the metal or you can just focus on I want my keyboard to do certain things and here's an easy way to get it going. One of the ideas we have is you could start off with something very simple like one of the rulers that we have just to make like a macro thing. Then you move your way up to making your own macro pad. Maybe you make a calculator. Maybe you make your own full-size keyboard. And then the other thing we're working on is a digital camera with CircuitPython and maybe even after that you can make your own cell phone. So there's a lot of things that you get the like I just want to make a project but then there's a I want to learn everything about how all this works and you can decide how deep you want to go in to each different form factor. Even with like PyPortal, we did that. There's like different, you know, there's different. Yeah, and then like the PyPortal sort of like led into multiple other products. What I think is interesting about the keyboard effort is we're kind of using that as an excuse to kind of do a bunch of development things that we've been meaning to do. Like customize USB descriptors. That's something that's been on our list since like day three, right? Like as soon as we got USB working we're like well what if you could like customize it on the fly and then you know that took a couple years to implement but now we have it so you can enable and disable dynamically like at boot rather you know in CircuitPython rather than at compile time. I'm going to grab it. I don't know, I can't because they don't let you copy and paste it. I'm going to grab a question from YouTube. Does the library allow for an easy way to connect multiple controllers? I really like my iris keyboard and would like to make more custom split keyboards for y'all who are working on the keyboard. So I just replied in the chat in the YouTube chat and this is something I thought a lot about actually and I don't think we have a good answer yet but one thing, so I have a split keyboard as well. I use a keyboardio and it's like attached to my desk because otherwise I'd show you but I've been thinking a lot about how to coordinate kind of all our input devices not just a keyboard. So I think one thing we should point out is that HID is short for human interface device and that's not just keyboards but that also includes like a mouse and a game pad. So joysticks and things like that. So it's a bit broader. It's kind of like any way you interact with a computer. So I've thought a lot about how I would coordinate like my trackball with my keyboard. That's something I've like hacked together myself but I would love to see a more generic way of coordinating the things and I think that the work that LaMorde did with the like demo one by four is kind of the direction I would probably go is just like using iSquared C for like one the thing that talks USB would iSquared C over to the other things that sort of thing. Yeah, interchip communication kind of it kind of sucks. I think iSquared C is a good option. We do have iSquared C peripheral right for most. I think we have it for almost all chips. Maybe only one chip doesn't have it. Not for the RB2040 I don't think. But you can also use UART. UART is a reasonable way to talk to people. Because the nice thing about UART is that like peers are peers there's not like one thing that's orchestrating the other thing. So UART is generally a good way to coordinate between microcontrollers as well. Yeah. Over at KMK they've been talking about this and apparently the standard to the extent there is one is just three wires because they have TRS jacks and so you only have one data line left and if you want to do LEDs on the secondary part then you need bi-directional communication over one line and that has been a challenge to them. You can do, I know, you know, look, asynchronous UART will work just fine. And you put a couple resistors to bridge them onto the same line or something? No, you just tie, yeah, you tie RX and TX together except you put like a 1K resistor. And that is the UPDI stuff that I've been like trying to get finished for the AVR that's where you program it. It's asynchronous UART with a resistor in line so that, you know, the chip can drive the TX line. So it's like the 1K is in series. Honestly, I would just use a TRS connector. I mean like they exist and they're inexpensive in their comments. So like this is where I would say like a hardware fix would be better because then you could use either UART or I-Squared-C. Another one that came in is from Thomas in the hack chat. Random Thought, HID, Gateway Bridge, to which key presses events can be sent to, sent via UART or other ways. The same interface for USB and Bluetooth chips, so. That one out? Actually while we're doing this too, hey Catney, you've been doing a bunch of guides for the macro pad. What was the latest one that you did? The latest one I wrote code for was actually one that was a 3D printing project with Braille key caps. Right, that's the one we released today. Yeah, and the code lights up each key that you press and also plays a tone. So if you perhaps can't read the things on the display, all that well, you can associate the key with the tone and it just provides another level of accessibility to it. All right, David asks, how flexible is it USB HID descriptor feature? Dan, why don't you answer? Wait, Dan's distracted by his family or cat. All right, by Dan. But basically Dan replies yes. So the custom HID descriptor feature is fully complete. You can really do anything you want. The challenge is you will have to figure out what that descriptor is and from the experiences I've had, it's kind of a pain in the ass to determine what the descriptor is supposed to be unless you can sniff it from an existing USB device. So that part's annoying, but you can type it in. Check out the Microsoft dial, which I thought was a good example because it's simple. It's just like a rotary encoder and then a button I think or two buttons. So that's a good example. What about software that looks at a VID and PID pair? I mean, that still won't work. What do you mean? It says, oh, this isn't my vendor ID device, so I'm not going to use it. Or is that uncommon? It's a little uncommon to be honest. Usually they don't do that kind of filtering. They just look for the HID device that matches. So far, I think, Dan, for the Microsoft dial, we didn't have to match their PID, right? I'm pretty sure you use the VID PID that you got. That's right. It doesn't really matter. As long as the HID descriptor is what they expect, then that's fine. Yeah, the only time I've ever seen something, I have seen things locked to PIDs, but it's rare and it's usually not for HID devices. Actually, a fun story from the past, and tell me if I got this right. Palm wanted to have music show up on their Palm devices, and they wanted to use iTunes, so they had their Palm device show up as an iPod. And the VID PID and Apple said, you cannot call your Palm iPod. And that was one of the times. Did I recant that story? That was, I think, one of the... That was the first time it really became an issue. I know that there's a couple other times. I remember I was spoofing something, and I remember that I had to spoof the VID PID because I remember doing it. I just don't recall what device it was, but it was... This is a long time ago. But it wasn't an HID descriptor thing, really, usually because it's risky, because oftentimes if a company has, you know, something that's an HID descriptor, and you want other companies to make accessories for their products, they don't usually do locking. Oh, what's great? 2009, Hackaday has a Palm Pre iPod spoofing confirmed. Thanks, Jebler. I don't think I wrote it. Yeah, so you can find the details. Some site called Hackaday wrote about it. Yeah. You know what's funny is I'm just like, in 2009, I'm like, where was I? Was I still doing stuff with Hackaday then? Okay, so I'm going to put this in the chat. This is cool. I will say that there are some devices that look like kind of like HID devices, like an Xbox controller that's not really, it's like its own proprietary thing. So, you know, those are much harder to emulate and we are not trying to emulate those. Yeah, and we have PS2 support, but only for reading PS2. I don't think we have a PS2 emitter. Right, Scott? Or do we have a... We only have reading PS2. Or... I don't know. The implementation we have in CircuitPython is different than the implementation that I used when I was doing PS2 input. Yeah. But I don't know what this person means by analog keyboard. I would assume it means PS2, but maybe not. They mean further like Mac Plus. Well, no, like somebody in the chat is saying, like, has anyone made an analog keyboard? I'm not saying it's like, you know, maybe... Oh, there are... using keyboards that look sort of like analog keyboards. They're not really... They use analog features. The 36 are analog, which I always thought was really funny. Like, you know, they use the capacitor charging technique to do timing, because there's no ADCs, so they did that instead. Huh. Yeah, it's like really weird. It's definitely weirder than... I think it would have been like an analog digital converter, but it's not. They actually did capacitive charging timing. And I think it probably went into like, you know, what's it called, a comparator. Let's also remind people, like, keyboard could mean music keyboard, too. You know, we're talking about keyboard, but there are uses. We just have a brand new project, for instance, that's sending MIDI stuff on our... using our macro pad... our new macro pad. And so, think about keyboard in the broadest sense. We have capabilities. The same keypad scanning code being used for keyboard does for typing keyboards. Yeah. I think even JP, his project, his Ableton Live controller, used pure MIDI because that's actually the way you send and receive commands. And so, you send the MIDI commands from the key presses, but on the other side, the LEDs are controlled over like MIDI, CC, or Cissex messages as well. So, you know, lots of music software can be automated and controlled with MIDI as well. Okay, we have a lot of questions. Do you want me to show off some hardware, maybe? Because we're getting... We're getting close to the end. We're getting close to the end. So let's show off some hardware. We're going to go to our overhead screen. Well, I'm going to zoom this out, okay? You're going to zoom out. And I'm going to show off this... All right, you want me to plug this in, right? Yeah, plug it in. World premiere. So this is... This is 16 years in the making. Yeah, so this is, you know... Move it over a little bit. What do you mean, move it over? So it's more in the center. I'm going to move this off. Oh yeah, Phil, you should switch to... Yeah. You being the main video. Oh man. The shipper says, and begin. Yeah. There we go. Yeah. Okay, so when I started Hackaday, I had this like Hackaday manifesto of all these things that I wanted to do. And one of them was a Hackaday keycap. It was 16 years ago. It just wasn't really possible. There was other things like calendars and events and, you know, a learning system. So you could tell I have the same bag of tricks, tricks wherever I go and what I want to do. But we made just a few. We wanted to... I wanted to send these to the Hackaday staff. And I sent a note to Dan and said, hey, can we give some of these away? So this is, I think the first time we showed them off. They're never going to be for sale. This is just a fun thing that we made while we're making custom keycaps. Okay, can I zoom out? Yeah. Can I zoom out? I accidentally left a little UI element on the overhead. I'll get rid of that one. Whatever. Nobody can tell. I can tell. All right. And then we've got... This was just going to run a demo with the... You know, we have a one main guide that shows how to make, you know, an automatic key press controller for various apps. Then you can use the rotary encoder to change what program. And then the, you know, the key mapping is displayed over here. So you can... I don't want to type this in because it might mess up my computer. I might automatically send some control codes. But, you know, you can customize the LEDs underneath. So we're doing glow through LED design. And then the bottom, we... Our first batch didn't have this... This didn't come out. Like our proto house kind of deleted our design. That's a point. But the second revision has this cool like voyager space disc copper etching into the PCB and some great silk screen art as well. So we think, you know, it's like, if you're going to have a keyboard, you might as well have some cool artwork to go with it. One person asked, and I answered in the chat, can you share where we got these keycaps? If the design partner we have is okay with it, then we can. But how we have to work now is we'll ask before we... Here's their contact information because they'll get a bunch of inquiries. They may or may not want to do it. They really like to have people they already do stuff with. So if they say yes, we'll say here you go and show you how to get a hold of them. Yeah. And then this is a break up board that we just made. So this is a snap apart ortho linear key matrix. So each key is a diode matrix. So you've got the columns and the rows over here. And then, you know, there's these little snap apart bridges that you can just cut open with diagonal cutters or your hands if you're strong and socketed keys. I really like these key sockets because I think, you know, letting people easily swap out keys is pretty nice because people have different desires for keys. They don't want to solder them. And the key sockets are inexpensive. They're only, you know, they're basically pennies a piece. And we'll have these on our site later, but we have an Adafruit keycap. No, they're on the site now. Oh, they're on the site now. We have the community made open source hardware logo, the gear logo that you've probably seen around. And we also, even though it's not the Oshawa logo, we donate and sponsor the open source hardware association and the open hardware summit. And what we'll do is we'll continue to donate some of the sales from that key, even though it's not the logo. Yeah. So here we have a little Adafruit one. Super. I love these etched through keycaps. I think they're so, they're so cool looking because I think a lot of people have, you know, a lot of people do have these pudding caps, you know, these, these glow through types. So I thought this is like a nice little add on where you can, it's just custom etched through with like a fiber laser. But we found a keycap maker that we're like, okay, if we send you the art, you'll just make it for us. And they, they're like, yeah, sure, send whatever. As long as the art is, you know, Fortumana Chromatic and pretty, you know, crisp, you know, enlarge, it comes out quite nicely. So this is kind of my favorite new thing is custom, custom etched keycaps. Yeah. So for folks trying to fill out the form, give it another shot. There is a permission error. Yeah. And I'll say this on video and then I'll put it in the chat. When hackaday picks you as a winner and I send you a keycap, I will never do anything with your address or email or anything. But I do need that eventually to send it to you. If it's international physical, if it's international, we'll call it a gift because that's what it is. And just know that international shipping on things is getting more difficult for stuff. Like a tax or fee, but this is just like a little tiny key up. But just know that we would never do anything like sign you up for newsletters. I'd never, I'm going to destroy the emails and addresses the second I send it out. I hope that, let me type that in too. All right, cool. All right. Last shot for questions, folks, because we're, we're rolling out. I can restore your email address or any, any info at all. Yeah. You know, one side note. So when we started a different daily, which is our newsletter thing. A lot of folks were testing to see if like it was connected to a different store in any way. So they would make up, you know, like an address that would like a different daily newsletter plus you could do that trick with the email. And we've never spammed anyone. So it's been seven years. How do you scroll? Let me put this back on us, by the way. Cause now it's just like a key cap thing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And scrolling if you want, you have to use both fingers. I did, but it did refresh. Yeah. There's a couple, there's a couple more. Nope. I think that's it. I think we're, I think we're good. Well, there was the question, are we going to do mice next? Yeah. There's a mice. There's a mice project called plupi that 3D printed. Plupi. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. Oh, okay. Well, they make track balls too. All right. Well, it's my daily driver. I recommend it. This is why we all get along because so I follow them on Reddit. It's a really neat open source mouse. Yeah. Yeah. And I've been meaning to ask, I need to DM them and be like, can we work together or something? Yeah. This needs a tripod mount for one. It's on my list, Scott, to talk it up. Okay. Now I just did. All right. Kenny, you have a thing that you want me to show this in the camera? Yeah, sure. I pulled it up. Show and tell here. So one of the things that a lot of mechanical LED keyboards do is when you press a key, it can sort of spray out an animation. This is a very early version of that. So you can use the LED animation library or it will be eventually where you press a key and that key then becomes the center of the spread out animation. That's cool. I like it. Good work. Thanks. Did you all see the flippy dot thing where it's just making the rounds where it looks like it's pouring in and it's making the sounds as well? You know what I'm talking about? I haven't heard of that. All right. I'm going to go ahead and log it. So you'll see it soon. It says flippy dots that make a noise when they flip. They're like the train terminal ones. And I guess someone coded it up. So it looks like you pour the liquid in and it's making the swooshy things but it's doing with the numbers. I just realized that would have been the hardest dictionary one to do. I know what you're talking about. I saw it go by. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think that's it. Yay. Let me ask Dan. Flippy dot. Yeah. Flippy dot. Yeah. Flippy dot. Matrix scan and peeping. Let's see if he's going to do the wonders now. We do have a discord server as well. If folks have more questions for us. We do. Oh, he's going to do the drawing now. Okay. Here we go. How many are we giving away? Ten. Okay. I'm going to. Free key caps. Free key caps. Yeah. And you're going to. I hope Dan is like I win all ten of them. How else would you make a keyboard? That's what you're going to win. And these are the most limited thing I can think of because this is it. Yeah. I want to make it more of these. This is a one shot deal. Unless hackaday wants to sell or give them away. They can do it of course. This is just special for this hack chat. If hackaday supply frame semen says okay to do these. We would do more, but we're not going to without permission. I'm not going to. No. Key key key key key. Is that our new song? All right. I think it could be. We have to get the K. Where's the keyboard, buddy? We have to get back to that. We have a bunch of characters that are waiting in the wings, sometimes literally, the challenge with some of the characters that we're doing, the challenge with some of the characters that some of y'all have seen is for the E Ink, the obvious thing to do was a squid or an octopus, Pimeroni has InkyFat and they had a little octopus. So I emailed them, I said, hey, like, our designers are like, hey, can we do an octopus or whatever. I'm just like, well, like, because they didn't know about Pimeroni's thing. And I asked Pimeroni, like, yeah, that's fine. But then I'm just like, well, like, we don't have a panda and that's black and white. And then we saw the commercial for Shark Week. And I'm just like, we don't have an orca, even though we know orcas are not sharks. OK. Yeah. Yeah. It was this. But we were thinking that they were talking about sharks on Shark Week, which they're talking about how orcas like mess up orcas are way worse and sharks way worse. I mean, if you ask a shark, that's what it is. Yeah, they're like, I don't. They're not good friends with orcas and orcas. OK. Orcas are like, we're best buds with everyone. We have to do them in groups of five. OK. So Derek one, Deshipu one, Fernando one, you draw one, George one. OK, good. These are all good. Great. We just need your. Yeah, the hackaday is going to send it to me. Yeah, it will only be used for this and then immediately destroyed. Destroyed. That's right. When we we had a product that we retired once and it had a really big sign up and someone said, well, you're just going to, you know, keep the sign ups and send me spam one day. So I made sure that I made a video and I blurred out the the information. But I showed that we actually deleted everything. And that's right. And one twice. And that worked. David did, too. Or no. OK. No, one more. Morgan, Steven importer. For an end again. No, one twice. For an end of two keys, maybe. I don't know. How can I ask you to think? Then I'll have to draw one more. All right. One winner per winner. OK, do Esther. So should I start making resin cast keycaps because I need a new hobby? Yeah, you can get into that. We just put in the resin key cap molds and I know in Pedro that they're going to be doing a guide. Yeah, I'll be waiting for the list of what else I need to do today was I have a couple resin caps, key caps at home that I forgot to bring in. But we'll do another video for them and show them off. But they're they're super fun. You just definitely, definitely want to have a UV resin and a UV lamp. You do not want to use the two part non UV resin. It just you want to die. It's really it's really miserable to use. Yeah. Are the molds single use or reusable? Are the what? Oh, no, you can pour them out. I mean, it just comes right out. That's one of the nice things about the silicone, the UV. It just like you even pop it from the bottom and it just like. Because I mean, they have extra because you need to have the physical support. But you can reuse them as, you know, many times as you want. As long as you use like proper resin and it's cured, of course, it's not cured. It's going to stick to the side. So you have to cure it, which is why, again, I really recommend going to be. I also think like you have to get through the like, what am I going to put in this resin? And I think like chips are kind of nice. Like there's like not so many things like what what makes sense to sink inside of a piece of resin, unless it's just going to be like a pattern or just, you know, colors and glitter. I think chips are kind of neat, like old retro chips that you can find are like individual components that that look interesting, like colors. Yeah, pour a bunch of 805 resistors in it'll it'll look. All right, let's get out of here because we got to get we got to go. All right, everybody. OK, so I'll be ready for our show soon. We got we got lots of shows tonight. Maybe see something you want to show and tell. Yeah. There'll be Keves. Come by with your keys. All right. We're non-Keves. I am hitting in broadcasts. See everybody later.