 Okay, hey friends, you're watching behind the scenes Divine Intimacy Radio. This is Dan and Stephanie Burke. We're going to talk today about marriage spirituality and answer questions that have come up in various form from our Divine Intimacy and Marriage Retreats, which we do all over the country and even Australia probably soon. So anyway, so hang out for that, we'll hit that in just a second. Give the gift of, okay, so Christmas is coming and if you want to all the guys, talk to the guys out there and you wives can share this to your guys' Facebook page or something, I don't know, or send them the URL. The pilgrimage and 20 gift of the pilgrimage of it, 2023 Abilah Summit or the 2024 pilgrimage to the Holy Land, which is going to be awesome. We already, it's already filling, which is crazy. So that's not next year, but the year after gives you time to save up if you need to do that. But also, don't we have more seats at the Divine Intimacy and Marriage Retreat in February next year? We do. And it always sells out. Yeah. What is it, like one, two left? Yeah, there's just a few, but we've decided to leave it open because we always have a wait list. So I'm just really excited because we just did one in Virginia. White post. White post Virginia. It was, there was just so much spiritual fruit for that. And the others that we've done in the past are still bearing fruit. Like within the last two months, you and I have actually had two couples from those events visit us here at the retreat center for prayer and healing and ministry. And they just, it just keeps giving and giving. And I just love, love what I see in our marriage retreats. So anyway, check it out at spiritualdirection.com, the events page, because you're not going to want to miss this. And it's just such a beautiful time to get away with your spouse, focus on each other, focus on God, take a little quiet time, reignite your marriage, reinvigorate it. We don't ask guys to act like chicks. No, you know, you're going to love it. I mean, I think our guys like it sometimes more than the women. They usually like it way more than they thought they would like. Yeah, like I see the guys just are like so attentive and just like, okay, I want to get this right. It's really beautiful. Yeah. Very cool. Last thing I'll say, and we'll jump into the show. Exploring theosis, a patristic understanding of our participation in the divine nature. If that sentence or that, if that title is interesting to you, then you are an interesting person. You would like the Avala Institute for spiritual formation. So theosis is of course participating in divine nature as St. Peter talked about in the New Testament. We have an amazing professor, Dr. Michael Gamma, who teaches this course at the Avala Institute, and it's a school of spiritual formation course, which means it's really easy for busy people. So it's, yeah, anyway, check it out at avala-institute.org, avila.institute.org. We're going to jump into the show. The last thing I'm going to say, guys, men, non-sysified men, if you have a points inventory issue heading into Christmas, get yourself signed up for the Divine Intimacy and Marriage Retreat, spiritualdirection.com, events on your market set. Go! This is Dan Stephanie Burke. Welcome to Divine Intimacy Radio, your radio haven of rest. Your hermitage of the heart. Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven to draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us to navigate this challenging and ever more deeply disturbing world. Yeah. Right? Yes. All that's happened in the last few years that I will admit I've dragged my feet on, but I'm beginning to, you know, see more fruit from and really, and starting to enjoy it is Divine Intimacy and Marriage Retreats. It was initially Stephanie's idea. No, it was actually originally the idea of a mother superior. Oh, that's true. It wasn't my idea. It was hers. Okay. From the mouth of God, practically, and so we found ourselves. Mother Louise Murray. Yes. We love Mother Louise Murray. Hey, if you're out there. At the Sister Servants, and I will say, by the way, if you're looking for a good retreat, they are totally faithful, about a half a mile from EWTN. In Birmingham. If you want to visit EWTN and go on a retreat, it's like two for that's amazing. And check out Costa Maria, Sister Servants Costa Maria, Birmingham, and you can find only faithful retreats. So tell the story. So this was during COVID or right at the beginning, like right after we had kind of reemerged, you and I had both recovered from it, you had survived it. And we went to visit her and just to reconnect and she asked me, you know, how are things going? What's new? And I told her, I said, something that is a little new and interesting is there's this stirring, you know, in the area of marriage spirituality. And I'm not sure, you know, what's happening with that, but we just notice a lot of fruit in that area. When we talk about it on the radio, any of that, it just stirs up a lot of movement. And she goes, oh, that's wonderful. And she goes, what are you going to do about it? And I said, well, I think someday we should probably create a marriage retreat. And she goes, you absolutely should. And I said, yes, we should, we'll do that someday. And she goes, no, you need to do it now. And I said, I understand, mother, but we're, you know, we have a lot going on. So you're right, someday we should do it. And she goes, no, you'll do it now and you'll do it here and you'll do it in August, whatever it was that year. It was really funny because we went, you know, when Mother Louise Marie talks with such directness, you know, I paid attention because she was very fervent about it. And I thought, OK, well, I'm going to take that as a move forward. And of course, we had so much going on that that was your angst. And it was like, I don't know if I can take on anything else. But we made the commitment. We said, yes. And we took off for a week in the RV at that point. And we would park on different locales. And one of them was on a farm. I think it was up in Tennessee or something. And we would write and pray and study and write and pray and talk and study. And we came up with this marriage retreat. It is completely unique to anything else out there. Because we didn't use anybody else's model. We used fruit from our prayer. We used Saint Teresa of Avila, this understanding of the progress of the soul and what would that look like, you know, in marriage and in a marriage context of a husband and wife and how does the marriage progress towards God and towards oneness. And so the retreat is called Ascent to Oneness. And that first one, we blew out the capacity of what we could do legally because it was it was right after COVID and there were still restrictions. We had to move it from Costa Maria to the shrine because we ran out of space. And it has just kept giving fruit like crazy. So just really, really beautiful. Awesome. Well, so from. From those retreats, we had a lot of questions. We have ongoing connections with those who want to remain connected with us, which is kind of an unusual blessing, you know, most times speakers go in and just and just speak and then bail and, you know, but we're really interested in investing in the lives of, you know, those who in a married married life are committed to growing in faith. And so we get questions both at the retreats because we do. It's kind of I think it's the best, you know, the best time during the retreat to. It's the most interesting part of the retreat is what I'm trying to say. And because people get to apply what they're learning, but then sometimes we have leftovers and, you know, things afterwards that people want to know. So we're going to do Q&A today before we do that. I just want to say thank you to EWTN because they, of course, distribute this show to like 300 stations around the United States and elsewhere. And we're grateful that we get to do it and we're grateful for all the good that they do in the church and the world. I think the United States would not be the church in the United States has many issues, but it would be far less healthy if EWTN wasn't there. So past, present and future. So support EWTN if you want to buy the books we recommend. It's always a great place to do it because you give them money for the book. They actually send it to you and you bless the ministry. All right, enough of that. What are the, okay, I understand how grace increases through the sacraments of the Eucharist and penance, but how does it work in the sacrament of marriage? Okay, so this is our first question, right? This is our first question. I repeat it. How I understand how grace increases through the sacrament of the Eucharist. Like, you know, the more you go and the more, the better, the more fully disposed you are, uh, holy, disposed in a holy way to it, then the more grace. Right. Assuming that you're in a state of grace. Yeah. So, so how does the, that work in the sacrament of marriage? Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay. You want to try? Um, well, there's just so much there. There's so many ways. Um, and, you know, the, we know, let me, you know, let me start off with this, the enemy hates marriage. Yeah. And I mean, like he actively just tries to destroy marriage from all angles. Um, in all of our conversations with couples at retreats and then in our follow-up courses and all of that. Um, what I have found fascinating is that the enemy is not creative. How he attacks marriages tends to, you know, continue in the same kind of patterns, this trying to divide the husband and wife, this, um, dis eaves or discontent, um, of the wife in the situation, um, a lack of pursuit of one another, um, distractions, stresses, um, the effem, you know, the effeminacy, you know, that can happen, uh, with this, with the husband and all this stuff, you know, just the separation and brokenness that happens in this cloud of sadness and discontent that, that can really and anger, bitterness, resentment, all those things, right? Um, so how does participating more in the sacrament of marriage or how, how can you make it flourish? How can you increase the graces? And I think first of all, um, let, let's just acknowledge the fact that a lot of people are in unequally yoked marriages. So we're not talking about, um, we can address it as a couple that is equally yoked or similarly yoked that's walking together. And then we can address it as those that are unequally yoked because either way you can receive more graces and you can, you can receive healing and oneness, even if you're unequally yoked to an extent. Right. So those who are similarly yoked, which means both are pursuing God in some former fashion, both are Catholics, both, uh, go to Sunday mass on a regular basis. Maybe one of them goes more than the other. Um, their frequenting confession at least once a year, maybe more, maybe once a month, whatever it is. So to the extent that those things hold true that they're solid in their sacraments, then how can they more readily participate to receive more graces in the marriage? And one of those ways is, uh, doing some of the things that you can only do in marriage. I'm going to address the big one right out of the gate, uh, physical intimacy. Yeah. Okay. A lot of people don't understand, don't, don't realize that if you are in a state of grace and you participate in loving one another in that self-giving way in the marital embrace, there, it's, it's both unitive and procreative. That's, that's what the marital embrace, that's, those are the characteristics of it. Or the outcomes, the outcomes. It's both unitive and procreative. And so you draw together in love, self-giving, selflessness to one another. And by participating that way in a state of grace, it bonds your marriage and makes you stronger. It makes you more one. Um, that's, that's a huge grace there. That's a huge grace that you can participate more in and receive more grace, which creates healing, oneness, this bond of, of being together, that bond of love, those graces received, then pour out onto your children, your community, your work environment for whoever's working outside of the home, your world, your church, your parish, yeah, because it's coming in through a sacrament and it changes you and changes the world around you. So I think there's some important, I don't know, details that we have to be cautious as we describe them, of course, but there's important details related to this and that you mentioned you have to be in a state of grace because you're cut off from the life of grace by living in mortal sin, unrepentant, un, you know, not cleansed to the sacrament of confession. Then, you know, you're, you've decided to cut yourself off from those, those good things, but if you're in a state of grace, when you get back from the break, what I want to talk about is what avails you of more grace in that reality in the marital embrace rather than less. So assuming you're in a state of grace, what avails you of more rather than less in the sacrament of marriage? So when we get back, we'll be talking about that subject on Divine Intimacy Radio. We'll be right back. Um, I think we've done it. Welcome back to Divine Intimacy Radio. So Dan and Stephanie Burke, we're talking marriage and spirituality. The question before the break was assuming the couple are both in a state of grace and relatively equally yoked, relatively equally yoked. And they are pursuing sacramental graces in their marriage through the marital embrace, what increases or decreases the life of God that flows through that beautiful reality. Now, just to make a reference before you answer the question, as an example, and people may not know this, when you go forward to receive the sacrament of the Eucharist, right? If you're in a state of grace and you should never receive it. If you're not, um, that's a grave sin and desecration. But if you're a state of grace and you're just to the degree that you're disposed, meaning that your heart is properly oriented to what is happening, it's connection with God and grace and his desire. And you're fully open or given to that reality. Um, and there's, you know, less, lesser impediments in your soul, all of that. You will receive more of the life of God, if you will, in the Eucharist. So similarly in marriage, it's a sacrament and we, and grace increases as we engage in self, fundamentally, it's self giving is the fundamental reality we're talking about the marital embrace. So what would increase grace, the gifts, blessings of the life of God on our marriage, or decrease it when it comes to the marital embrace? Well, I mean, obviously we've already mentioned being in a state of grace. Yeah. The other would be being disposed to it, like, like coming together with this, um, desire of the heart to receive all that God has, right? For you in that and to give yourself away freely. So this predisposition of heart of saying, Oh, I, I love you and, uh, I desire to love you in Christ, in the sacrament of our marriage and, uh, to, and for us to receive all that God has for us and for us to give it away to each other in this selflessly, uh, selfless giving and receiving of the love exchange between the husband and wife, which we all, I mean, most people have probably heard already that the marital, um, union between a husband and wife, this reality of marriage is so beautiful because it marry, it mirrors the life giving of the Trinity, the father loving the son, the son loving the father and this exchange of love between them, which is the Holy Spirit. And it just, the more you give away, uh, the more it, it regenerates and it creates more and more grace and love. Um, same goes in the marital embrace, you know, as you come together, if you say, I love you and I freely give myself to you and the other spouses, I love you and I freely give myself to you in that exchange of love freely given more grace is received and more is given in that disposition of the heart. Um, one of the things that comes to mind, it was just such a beautiful, uh, moment, one of my directies was, was discussing this and, and struggling with this because the enemy, like I said, he's not very creative. And he will often work in a woman who's stressing or having difficulties or the difficulties of finances, the children, just being alive, just being a human being on earth can create stress and difficulties, right? And struggling with that, um, she was finding herself withdrawing from her husband in a state of desolation, just really wanting to turn in on herself and pull away because she was hurting. She was stressing. Uh, he, you know, her knight in shining armor had fallen off his horse and he was all, you know, battered and bruised and, and a little tainted. And at that point she's going, you know, things haven't worked out quite how I thought they were going to be, right? And so working through that, um, she started to pray about it, think about it. And I shared with her something that I'd heard Bob shoots say, and we just love the JP to healing Institute. Uh, he said, you know, that the word for woman in Greek is negaba. And the, and what it means is open. Yeah. It means open. And so she translated that as she was praying about it, talking to our Lord about how to love her husband better. Um, she decided, and it was, I think it was inspired, but as her husband sought her, you know, he pursued her, she received him. She thought internally, she was thinking internally, I receive you. I receive you. That's beautiful. I receive you. Yeah. And would push back the darkness that was saying self-protect withdraw, turn away. So she did the opposite internally. And in that disposition of heart of I receive you as my husband, because this is God's will that we, we are married and that we give each other to us, to each other selflessly in the marital embrace. Um, she, it, it transformed their intimacy and it was really beautiful. Had a lot of fruit. You know, another thing about this is, uh, the proper disposition is one of self-giving, not of taking, which is the big deal. How is it that a person takes instead of self-gives? I think I could be wrong, but I think this is going to be more in the realm of the husband as a predominant, uh, disposition or predominant, you know, failure in love, if you will, or, or a lesser love. And that, and that is that the husband should, and, and we have to use particular language here as we're, as we're in a public airwaves and we're, you know, it's family oriented reality. But the husband should seek as his primary motivation to serve his wife, not to take from her. And then the wife gives or receives from her husband when it's only taking and not giving and not, uh, helping the other in their participation, then the graces are much less and the woman is much more likely to be, to feel used rather than loved. And that's a word that I hear way too often and it pains me. Right. It absolutely pains me because I think it is such a secret. This, this idea of self-giving, selflessness. I mean, if we look at the example of Christ, he is perfectly selfless, completely giving himself over, allowing himself to be crucified, giving himself in love, uh, only receive, you know, speaking what the father gives him and giving that over, never being self-willed or, or selfish or taking, but only giving and receive, you know, in that, that loving, um, model that he gives us, perfect model, our lady as well, perfect selflessness, let it be done into me according to thy word, Lord. Right. Right. I am a handmade of the Lord. So we have all these examples of what it means to have this beautiful, um, the power of that selflessness in one another, right? If we do, if we do that, you know, this Dan and Stephanie Burrell, we're talking about marriage spirituality. So the, the, um, so here, here's the issue with guys, right? Guys are not as well in touch with their feelings and therefore not as, not as easily able to connect with the feelings of their wives or desires of their wives, that sort of thing. And there's always exceptions. Yeah. No, no, no. So you're just speaking in general. So the question might be for a guy, well, how do I do that? Well, the answer is ask your wife, you know, so in the, in our, um, or I should say one of the things we recommend, it's very powerful is love languages. I think Gary Chapman is the one who may have originated this, it's a great concept, which is understanding how your wife, uh, or your spouse, male, female receives love and then give love as they receive love. Yeah. Not as you give, because that's the tendency. Right. Like if your love language is gift giving, and we always know those folks because they're giving gifts all the time, because that's how they love, um, or acts of service. You know, um, Jordan used to crack me up when he was younger. We know that's what our producer and our son. Yeah. Cause when he was in trouble, we'd come home and the house smelled like Lysol and lemons and I knew, oh, something's, something's gone astray, you know, he's cleaned the house. So, um, you know, so you have to give love as the person receives, not as, as you receive, which is in and of itself is an act of selflessness. Right. So in learning to love the other, you're studying the way the other receives love and then you're adapting the way you give love to the way they receive it. That increases grace. Now again, carefully, when we talk about the marital embrace, what I recommend to husbands is ask your wife, ask your wife and, and be patient, right? And wives be open to speaking. It's hard thing to talk about a lot of people. Yeah. But I think what you'll find is then as you pursue one another, as you love one another, you will be, I think, blown away by the blessings of God in your marriage. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, the mutual, I mean, I don't know. I, I don't, it's, it's a tough thing to talk about in a public context and be within bounds of discretion, but I, you know, personally, I can't imagine a better marriage than I have with you. And I think a lot of that is I'm always working to love you the way you receive love and you're always working to love me the way I receive love. And even when we do it in brokenness, but because that's the intention and the journey, there's a lot of success. Right. Right. And there's a lot of, it creates a lot of grace and a lot of space for forgiveness because the, as you called it, the, you know, the bank account, you know, the emotional bank account is very full because there are so many moments of grace, you know, just in our day to day and our, in our normal exchange, not, not just the marital embrace, but all of it. Yeah. And so there's this, this overflow so that when there are moments of difficulty and selfishness and brokenness or trials or whatever, we have a huge bank account to, to lean on. So it's just, it's just a very powerful thing. Love is the other person receives love and it does a lot to deal with the way the enemy works to undermine our oneness, undermine our marriages. And what you receive in return is great graces. It changes your marriage and changes your world around you and it's a way to get to heaven. And in that, I want to recommend a book by Father Robert out here, which is an amazing book called God's plan for your marriage. If you really want to rock your world and get a totally different view of marriage than you ever have conceived. And I promise you will not. If you buy the book and read it, you will never come back to me and say, Dan, this didn't live up to what you said. It's a beautiful book. Totally knew. Yeah. I go out to spiritualdirection.com, hit the shop button, and you'll find the book God's plan for your marriage. I'm sure at some point it'll be 10. We'll also have it up there. And if your points inventory is low, sign up for one of our pilgrimages, surprise your wife with divine intimacy and marriage retreat coming up. So spiritualdirection.com events and you will, you will not regret it. I promise you. Okay. So until next time, may the God of peace make you perfect in holiness, may he preserve you whole and entire spirit, soul and body irreproachable at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.