 Hello and welcome to My Career in Data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp and today we're talking to Diamond Wong-Qualh from the US Census Bureau. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry-leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launchpad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DBTOX for 20% off your purchase. Hello and welcome to this special podcast episode. In this episode we hear a story of corporate bullying and how it can lead to suicide and thoughts of suicide. I cannot thank Diamond enough for getting vulnerable with us and trusting us with her story. We just so appreciate it. And if you ever having thoughts of suicide, please call 988 in the United States or your local suicide hotline. Hello and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp and I'm the Chief Digital Officer at Dataversity and this is My Career in Data, a Dataversity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to talk with people who make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education, go to Dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. Today we are joined by Diamond Walco, an emerging technology fellow at the U.S. Census Bureau. Diamond, hello and welcome. Hey nice to see you and happy new year. Happy new year. So I'm excited because this is actually the second time you are joining us to be interviewed, which is a first for us. So that is very exciting. But before I get into why I invited you back, let's talk a bit about where you are now as you have a new role since we've last talked and just a refresher. When I met you, I was looking for a speaker on data quality and you're introduced to me as having given the best data quality talk. And as I got to know you, I know that data quality is just your jam. Like that is just your thing. I think it's quality and all aspects. Quality is my jam, man. I love it. I'm one of those weird people. So tell me what you're doing now for the U.S. Census Bureau and what your weeks look like. So last year I was selected as one of six Americans to be a part of the Emerging Technology Fellowship and essentially it's helping the Bureau and agencies connected to the Bureau to adopt and learn about emerging technology. So some folks are dealing with AIML. Others are dealing with privacy enhancing technology. I am dealing with data modernization. So much like a lot of organizations right now going from on-prem to a cloud environment. That's what I'm trying to do here at the Census, but it's more on an enterprise level. So that is what I'm doing. That's very cool. I mean, I have to assume there's, I mean, there's a lot of data there. Yeah. Yeah, like terabytes of data and moving that from again on-prem and server to a cloud is very challenging from like when I was in consultant, we were just doing these pretty simple lift and shifts. But when you think of something with the amount of data and the types of data, it is a huge project. Oh, well, congratulations. That is very exciting. So fun. And so, and just to get a little refresher on your background. So you have a bachelor's degree in what? So my bachelor's is in industrial engineering and then I got my master's in quality systems management. That's amazing. And how many certifications do you have? Too many to name. But the main ones that I like, I'm a lead auditor for AS9100 and ISO 9001. I'm a product owner, scrum master. So those are the cooler ones and more to come. Oh, that's amazing. I love it. Okay. So in addition to working at the US Census Bureau, you, I see on your website, diamondwilliams.me, you list yourself as a senior data engineer and data analytics educator who's passionate about equality for black talent, exposing minority communities to data literacy, and helping with career navigation. Tell me a little bit about that. Oh, man. So I'll start with the career navigation to kind of build up. So I'm a first gen college graduate and first in engineering and all of it. And I had no idea what I was doing. It's one thing to have these conversations of go to college. Okay, I go there now what? So I kind of like bang my head against the wall all throughout college just trying to find what's my thing. So I had like five different internships for Fortune 500 and 100 companies. And that kind of helped me learn that I like quality. I like process improvement. And I like the data that surrounds those two topics. So that allowed me to kind of always be forward thinking when it comes to the applications of data and like issues that will come based on like of my background. So what that looks like is like, I started out in industrial engineering and quality, but I got a lot of projects that were data centric that allowed me to pivot into data engineering. And now I'm doing data engineering and it's allowing me to learn more about AI, ML, and data science. So just that ability to always see how there's a quality linkage throughout all of these like up and coming trends and technology. At the end of it, it's always going to have some quality component. And I'm very grateful to be able to like use that to navigate in these spaces. So that's what I hope to offer people there. Data literacy, as you probably see daily, there's something technology data driven and to be able to not only understand the conversation, but participate in the conversation, you have to know something about data. So that's where the data literacy and education comes in. I'm an adjunct instructor for Maryville University, part of their graduate data and analytics program. So just helping students become more data literate and understand how to be data driven in this world. So that's kind of like why that bio is summed up that way. Amazing. So and you mentioned that you are an adjunct instructor. And also now in addition to all of that, you are also a self-employed for principal quality specialist for quality aero systems. So tell me a little bit about that. So quality aero systems is my baby that I hope to be birthing very soon. Essentially, I want to focus on, again, just data and quality in the areas that that impacts. So that looks like traditional quality, or that's your QMS AS9100, I sign on 2001, then your data quality. So that's the next layer. You have your standard traditional quality, your data quality. And what I'm learning more about is a data ethics, which is like a quality component of how the data is stored and interacted with from an algorithmic auditing standpoint. So I'm trying to build on all of the layers of how quality impacts these places differently. I love that so much. Oh my gosh. So, you know, you just do you sleep? Because you're also, you know. No, I have a toddler. He cares nothing about sleep. I was gonna say you're a mom. Yes, she does like her. You also are, list yourself as an author. Tell me about that. Yeah. So during my master's in quality system management, again, I was able to kind of see how data is going to our quality impacts data. And that led me to publishing an article on data quality management for industry 4.0. And I essentially looked at all various types of literature about data quality and how data quality management is impacted in this new space, which is like your industry 4.0. And essentially what that looked like is learning how quality is continuing to evolve and touch all these spaces when for a while quality would just look at the gatekeeper within a business. So it's like, I'm going to design something, we'll check the quality once we're right at the door. But now the concept of how can we maintain quality throughout your data, your enterprise, whatever system that is and being able to see how quality is continuing to transform and grow definitely helped me understand how do I want to represent quality as well as how do I want future diamond future businesses to interact with quality. Such an important thing. And, you know, especially as we get into gendered AI, and that's becomes has become a mainstream term, data ethics, right, goes right along with that. And I love that you're looking at that. So you are a very, very busy woman. I'm so impressive. Really impressive. And I will post the link to your to the previous podcast interview so you everybody can get a in depth catch up on how amazing you are in the career you've had. But let's get into why I invited you back. So I asked you back because you have a hard story to share a story that's not unique to data professionals, but I think one that impacts us all, right. And is, and as this podcast is the intent of this podcast is to help data professionals careers be a little bit easier. I believe it's important to share these hard things and talk about how we can help each other just be better. So recently, I saw you repost the story regarding the death of Dr. Antoinette Candia Bailey, aka Bonnie. She was a black woman who was the vice president of student affairs at Lincoln University, Missouri. And she reportedly committed suicide from quote, bullying and severe mistreatment and quote, by the president and other leadership at the university. So first, for those who are unfamiliar, can you tell me a little bit more about this story as you understand it? Yeah. I, I think the summary that you gave was how I learned of the story as well. And I just kind of researched it. I just was captured by it because I had experienced similar things and I understood her decision. Not that, no, I don't think any person wakes up wanting that, but I feel like at some point you get to this space where it feels like you're boxed in and that's the only solution. And it's, it's difficult, right? And again, I don't think any person just goes in wanting that, but once you're, you raise the flag so many times and nothing's changed, it's just like, maybe I'm the problem and maybe I should eliminate myself from the problem. And that's, some people choose to do that by leaving in, you know, find another job or whatever. And then other people, not, not that they're weaker or whatever, they just, everyone has the moment where they get to, I can't take it anymore. And that's expressed differently. So seeing that really resonated with how I felt when I was at a particular job and just really debated on like, how can I just get relief? I just want the pain to go away. So when you did repost the story, you didn't just say, this makes you sad. You shared your own experience with corporate bullying, which, and like as you just said, you mentioned that it led you to having those kind of thoughts. So tell me, tell me the story. Tell me the story. Tell me what that experience was. Yeah. So before I, I actually did a job transfer to same company, but a different location. And I liked the, the location that I was previously at the issue was that I had a super busy manager. And it was difficult to understand as a new employee in a recent college graduate what my needs were and what were my opportunities for improvement when you have someone that's busy. It wasn't that she wasn't effective or anything. I just didn't know what to ask. I didn't know what I needed. So I saw an opportunity for a much smaller site. And I thought my, my perspective in going into that and applying for that role was that it's a smaller site. I can work intimately alongside of the quality manager and get the, the tools and the resources that I wanted to grow. At that time, my goal was to become a vice president of quality. And I really wanted that one-on-one closeness. I almost viewed it like Batman robbing when it came to like my manager and myself. And when I had my interviews and went down to the site, that's how I was communicating. It was like this, this great thing. And gosh, it just took a sharp turn. It went from first just like, oh, you need to be more assertive in meetings. And I'm like, okay, I'm just trying to get my footing. I don't know really what to say. I'm not, because at that point, a lot of people were like cursing in the meetings. And that's how they would, I guess, the culture there where they would get attention or whatever. So I'm like, I don't, it's seven in the morning. I don't want to cuss nobody out. Like, I'm just trying to get whatever I need to get done. So that was like the start of it, where it was just like, these little things about who I am that was not okay anymore. And then it was getting closer to audit time. So we're inspecting various aspects of our quality management system. And the first part of it was I was tasked to work with an operator to essentially learn about our heat treat processes. I was also going to help with like, updating some code for the heat treat furnaces, the recipes. So again, to know these recipes know, like how to do these things, you have to work intimately with these operators to almost get in their mind on how are they doing these things? How are you setting these recipes? How do you know when a part is not at the quality level we need it to be? So that was one start of what became a label relationship was that I was literally tasked to work with someone. And because of the manner and how we work together. So that meant me spending more time literally just sitting at the furnaces, asking questions that became labeled as I was having an inappropriate relationship with this operator. So yeah, so it started off as just a little rumor. So I'm thinking, okay, corporate is high school with paychecks. I can deal with rumors. I don't care. But when it started to impact me was that my office was directly across from my quality manager. So every Friday I would just walk in there and we would have our conversations away, have you. So mornings were the same operator that I was learning from would come in and we would talk through whatever was going on. I would close my door but not all the way. But that started he got a text message from his supervisor. So another salary person, right? That's essentially in middle management where I am. And he's like texting him about some alleged things, inappropriate things that I'm doing with this operator in my office, which he screenshots that to me. And I'm just like, what the hell? This is the person you asked me to work with to learn alongside of. And now it's become something altogether different. And then that led to literally even removed from my office and placed into like this bullpen area. So I didn't have the privacy of meeting with someone. So that was one start. Well, let me let me ask you there. So you were moved, you were asked to vacate your office, move into a bullpen into a cube, basically, right? Cubicle. And was there any investigation? Whether you're given any reasons where you they just heard rumors and decided to move you? Yeah, so basically he got that text. And I want to say about the let's say that you got that text on a Thursday by that Monday I was moved out of my office. So I assume by him sharing that text with you, he was agreeing that like, obviously, this is not happening, right? Yeah, he's like, what are they talking about? Like, and I'm just thinking, I have no idea. Like, I don't understand it. But whatever, like, that's what they want to think. Whatever. But I never expected that to kind of result in being moved out of like literally removed from my office, like pack your stuff up, you're going in this other area. And then the other area wasn't it was probably the most hostile part for me. Um, so again, I'm the quality engineer, and I'm working alongside of people within the engineering department to look at parts, disposition them, say what the issues are, can we scrap this, can we rework this, do we need to enter a concession to our customer, whatever the case is. And I'm moving to this like bullpen of people who are dealing more with a shipping of products, which is fine. But I asked that, hey, if I'm working more with the people in the engineering department, which were mainly men, actually, exclusively men, let me take that back, exclusively men. How about I move in the area where they are, since we're working together every morning, and all of these things. And I was so no, you're going to stay here. And then the people that I'm working alongside of was literally a mother and her two daughters. So if the mother are one of the daughters felt any way about me, that got cascaded to the whole room. So I would come into the room and I would, because my my office, so think of a square, I'm like facing the most outermost wall, and everyone has a corner. So when I walk into the office, I can see them having exchanges about me while I'm sitting in the same place with them. And one of the conversations was like, oh, I think I'm better than them, because I want to work in the engineering department. And I'm like, I'm the quality engineer here, I work exclusively with the engineering team. And I help alongside of you guys, but I think it would be more value if we have quality related problems for me to be alongside of engineering. That was not the case. Then what else has happened? So like, part of my job was also to do these first article inspection reports. And it's essentially like a customer gives us a blueprint of a part, and we want to ensure that we can make that part within a specified parameters that the customer has given us. So it's essentially every couple years or every new part we'll get, we have to perform this inspection to make sure that our processes are compliant with the customer needs. So I essentially have to do that for every part or any changes that was happening. And the person whose job it was to review my paperwork in case there are any errors, or let's say if I coded a part to a specific revision that wasn't the latest, he will say, hey, that's not the latest part revision, we should do this, or if it's not the latest revision of a standard, it should be that. So all these conversations I'm just thinking are just opportunities for me to grow and learn more from him being that he was a more senior employee. What I didn't know is the year and some change that I was at this location, he kept a copy of it. Every single error I made, whether it was a space typo, if I fat finger the K instead of an L, all of those were copied. So by the end of the year, I'm doing my performance review, my manager again, this was when our offices were right across from each other. And I met with him and I'm like, hey, actually, let me back up. Every Friday, I would meet with him. I had an impromptu meeting to just say, hey, how am I doing? What are my opportunities for improvement? Continuous improvement is not just something I learned, it's my lifestyle. So I always want to know how can I be better? So every Friday, I'm meeting with him. Only thing he kept saying to me was, you need to be more assertive. Okay, all right, I'll start saying Fs and Ss and cussing during the meetings. All right, cool. I'll be assertive. Yay. So I'm meeting with him. And around the time for my performance review, I'm yet, I meet with him in states that I have met expectation, which is like a three or four, I can't remember the scale. But it's like, I'm meeting expectations, no opportunities are improvement. Just the same jargon that I've been getting for the past six, seven months, whatever. So two weeks or so later, I get called into HR. And I'm thinking that it's because we have a new person that's starting and maybe she just wants some time because it just popped up on my calendar. So I'm like, maybe she just wants to do a meet and greet. I don't know. I haven't seen her on site before. But essentially, this person came from headquarters to tell me that I was placed on a PIP or performance improvement plan for filling to exceed expectations. And I'm literally like, what are you talking about? I just met with my manager two weeks ago. And he said I was doing great. And she proceeded to list, essentially, how I'm not a team player, again, coming from the family that I was sitting in an office with, they were any, anything I did, they were reporting back and saying that I wasn't doing X, Y and Z. So I'm not a team player. I also learned that any error that I made, the person who reviewed it, mind you, had never made it to a customer. This is just internal review. He has kept the copy of it for the past year and has presented that to express that I'm incompetent for this job. So yeah, I just, oh yeah, also did not have a good relationship with my manager. That was part of my PIP. So I had to improve my communication with him, which I'm like, I meet with this guy every Friday. What are you talking about? I also learned during that session that I got complaints about from HR or from someone to HR that I came into work too early. Now, I work in aerospace manufacturing. We have three shifts. We have quality issues on each shift. The responsible thing to do is let me assess each shift at random to see what's happening to contribute to these quality related issues. I would come into work maybe four or five, because I want to understand what's happening mid-shift, or I may stay later to six or seven because that's second shift. So I'm trying to tap all three shifts. But literally, the report stated that I came into work early. The front office opens at seven. I need to be there at seven. And I didn't even know that was an offense, less known an offense that should be reported and documented. It was just thing after thing after thing after thing. You were placed in a cubicle with other women, kept away from your team because they were all men. Is it any colleagues of color? No, I am the only woman of color there as far as engineering. We had a continuous improvement manager who was Hispanic, but she didn't interact with the engineering department in the way that I did. Her interactions were separate in a way. And I know that she wasn't treated well, but I can't communicate to what extent. Because me and her would have these conversations. And I would vent to her a lot because that was like the only female in a technical role that minority female in a technical role that was there. And essentially, there will be times where I'm an engineer. And the people who were working for the engineering department, except for the engineering manager, were not engineers. And what I mean by that, they did not obtain an engineering degree. They were in school, they were in a community college to get the prerequisites to go on to, I guess, the traditional college or university to get their mechanical or what have you engineering degree. So it will be times where I would vent to the continuous improvement manager and letting her know like, hey, I brought up the idea of, hey, let's check these, the tensile strength or what's the max pressure on these machines, all these things that I've studied. And I would get dismissed as if I didn't know what I was talking about. And one event that was jarring to me is that I asked these people in the engineering department about a max pressure for an extrusion machine that like creates this art. And I'm trying to understand at what point will we put too much pressure on this and it will fracture. These are aluminum and titanium extrusion. Nobody wants to hear what I have to say. And one day the part actually fractured. It literally went through the roof and landed two to 400 yards away from the plant. And that was one part. There was another part that they, however they designed it, when the operator put it in that extrusion machine, the recoil in some way fired back and hit the operator in the head. Thankfully he had his helmet on, but you're talking about a 1500 pound piece of aluminum that's hitting someone. No safety offense, no safety write up, no near miss, wasn't reported to HR. No discipline for neither thing, but me having typos that never made it to our customer was an offense that needed to be documented. So I'm dealing with that. I'm going back and forth talking to her like what the hell is going on? Like these are typos and we almost killed somebody on more than one occasion. And none of these have been dealt with at the gravity or the magnitude that I am dealing with. I don't understand. Yeah, that would be certainly a hard thing to understand. And something that you had mentioned in your LinkedIn post is again to just reiterate, you have a degree in engineering and we're dismissed as not knowing what, and as you mentioned, not knowing what you're talking about, but your colleagues did not have a degree. Am I correct? Correct. Yeah. You also mentioned additional bullying about wanting when you asked and requested to improve yourself. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Oh yeah. So at this time, this was before I started my masters. I had just got accepted into Eastern Michigan. And what led me to pursue this degree in quality was that one of my previous mentors went to the same university. She graduated with the same program and she eventually worked her way to becoming the VP of quality. So I wanted to follow her steps. And essentially I got accepted to Eastern Michigan University. And I'm very excited. Again, I'm still working for the same company. I just did a site transfer. So they stated, hey, when you do your site transfer, bring up your tuition and all that to them since you'll now be an employee there. Cool. So as I'm interviewing, I brought this up and it was mentioned during my interviews. Once I got my offer and all that, like, hey, I'm going to school for these things, it contributes directly to the roles that I want to have within this business. Will it be supported? And I got a yes. So once I started and I started school, I want to say August or May of that same year or a year before. And I'm just seeing, like, what's the process to go through tuition reimbursement? I'm doing a couple of classes. It's not maxing out. I think the credit or reimbursement was like 5,250 a year. So I'm ensuring that I hover below that. And every time I meet with HR or my manager or even the plant manager to talk through, like, hey, how do what's the process of me getting the tuition reimbursement? I was always so they never had the funds. And I'm like, all right, it's not an ideal, but okay, I'll do it. I'll just pay out a pocket for my master's school, whatever. But I learned through, again, I will have these morning meetings with the same guys to go over parts and all of that. I learned from them that the site was covering the four guys who did not have an engineering degree. They're covering their tuition for the classes that they're taking their calculus, they were taking like calculus, geometry, all the levels, the prerequisite courses to get into a university. And I was just like, so yeah, I don't have money for me cool. And that kind of was confirmed. So once I am learning more about the problems that we're having, it's a lot of part variation. So I'm like, maybe we should do a green belt or a Lean Six Sigma project to like reduce the variation in these parts. So I'm learning more about Lean Six Sigma. And I asked my manager, hey, there's this Lean Six Sigma training. It's a couple hundred or a couple thousand dollars. I couldn't remember. No, it was like 1800. I'll take it back. So I'm like, it's like 1800 bucks. Can I go to it? Like, can you guys help me or sponsor it? And this was like, I asked him during our 101. And he was like, I'll think about it. Give me some time. I said, okay. So I wait some time because his deadline is vastly approaching. So then we're like, having this meeting are going to have a meeting. So we get there early. And it's at that time, it's just me and him. And I asked him and people are starting to walk in, but we're just standing alone having a conversation. And I said, hey, the timeline for this training is approaching. Like, will you guys be able to cover the Lean Six Sigma training for me? Like, I just want to know what to do. And like, again, people are feeling in the room. And he's like, training costs money. And he just yells at me. He's like, no, training costs money. I said no. And I'm like, what? I'm like, what is happening? First, my daddy lives in St. Louis. Like, who are you yelling at? Like, you're not my parent. Where is this coming from? And two, I'm like horrified because it's a whole room full of people at this point. And you just yell at me to the top of your lungs. So I sat there like trying, you know, like how you want to cry, but you're like, okay, suck it up. Don't cry right now. It's a room full of people. I'm a way to get to my office or a bathroom. I can't cry right now. So you're going to pinch yourself or whatever. So you don't cry in that moment. And again, I have my laptop with me and I get a chime. And it's like the engineering manager and he's like, hey, are you okay? And I'm just like, no, I'm not okay. This guy just yelled at me. Like I'm a child. So I eventually just pay for the training out of pocket and just stop. It just felt like any moment that I was trying to improve myself or find ways to make sure I was creating value or finding ways to create value, it was just a problem. So I started to feel like, is it me? I'm either problem. And it got to the point where every other day it was something new about what I was doing. And I'm on this pip and I'm just trying to like check the boxes. So I'm being nice to the mom more nice, like, just trying to go above and beyond to like these room of mom and her two daughters. You know, I'm like, hey, do y'all need anything? Like, I even asked one lady, like the mom one day, because I just was like so overwhelmed. I was like, hey, can you just pray with me? Because she had all these crosses up. I'm like, can you just pray with me? Like, I just feel like overwhelmed. And I can't not cry right now. Like, just, I'm just trying to like, I'm human to see me. And she's like nice to me and she prays with me. And then the next week is back to the same thing, where it's like, she doesn't like me, her daughters don't like me. And they'll have conversations around me. And I'm hearing chimes going back and forth and people are laughing. But I'm not, I'm not engaged. There's no, hey, Diamond, outside of that one time where we have this moment, nothing. I'm like trying to bring up movies. I'm trying to, how can I connect with y'all? Like, what can I do? But yeah, so it just looks like I started having really, really bad panic attacks, like just pulling up in a parking line. I would just cry. I would just sit like head and stern wheel just like booing. And then I'm like, okay, Diamond, suck it up. Let's make it through the day. And like, the one person who was like, consistently nice to me was the same operator that I lost my office on. So like, I'm trying to like, interact with him and engage with him because he's nice to me. Actually, it was a lot of the operators on the floor that were very nice to me. That would, hey, are you okay? You look a certain way. Like, is everything okay? And I would get them anytime I stepped on the floor. I would sit there and like listen to the operators hear what the issues are and try to be their voice because they weren't getting listened to either, right? So, and my first job ever was, I was an intern at an automotive manufacturing company. And I had an operator come to me my first day. I'm walking through the plant just trying to understand it. And he's like, hey, I know that you're going to go get your degree. And you're going to be this engineer thing. But I need you to know, you're not better than us. And I need you to know that these operators know these machines. And they can break it to the point where maintenance will know how to fix it. So don't let your degree make you treat us like you're better than us because that's what everyone else did. And I always took, I don't even remember that guy's name. I don't think he even gave me his name. But I always took that piece of advice, no matter how it was delivered. It was the fact that like, I'm never going to go out of my way to belittle or make operators or people who are actually hands on with the product to make them feel like they don't know what's going on. I'm always going to find a way to include these people and make sure that I can advocate for them. So like, I spent a lot of time just on a shop floor because if there's quality problems, you and this manual aren't going to teach me anything. I need to be with the people who are building these parts who knows that if this machine makes a high-pitched coil for too long, oh, it needs this. I want to be alongside of those people. I know what these offices and cubicles and these titles say, yeah, that's great. But the people who keep the life and the blood of these organizations are the people that's building these things. I want to learn from them. And that, for some reason, wasn't received at this organization. So anytime that I spent time with the operators who were men or, yeah, it was very rarely any women operators. It was mainly men. So anytime I'm spending time with these male operators, it's perceived a certain way because I'm a woman. Not me just trying to learn my job or do my job. It's I'm doing something inappropriate, which was just exhausting. It's tiring. I can certainly empathize with that. I think most women, most women can, unfortunately, but you know, Diamond, tell me, you mentioned you empathized with this VP of student affairs with Dr. Antoinette, with Bonnie, about her choice to commit suicide. And you talked a little bit about how you can, you know, why staying for so long and choosing that. So how did you work through those feelings and that empathy and and, you know, why did you keep trying? Why did you keep saying like, what, what are your thoughts going through? And what are you dealing with there? Yeah. I stayed because at that time, I didn't feel like I had an escape. So I'm in my 20s. I'm living in another state. My parents aren't there. I literally had just bought a house. So I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to do this. I don't I don't have any place to go to. I have to figure it out. Like I have to make it work. I was applying for other jobs. I was trying to find out any way possible. I had conversations with HR. Just like, hey, help, what can I do? Like, I can't make it more bearable. And like, nothing worked out. So I'm just trying to show up, cry in my car, do my best. And whatever I could. And so I'm on this, this pip. Let me go back to that because it kind of frames everything. It was a six week pip where I had six weeks to improve or I was getting fired. So I got on the pip. I want to say in October? Yeah, October or something like that. I don't know. And it was supposed to end in November. I remember that specifically. And what ended up happening is I'm trying to follow this subjective rubric of like what I'm doing wrong to the team. And like, November comes and nothing happened. So I'm like, I'm doing good. December comes. Nothing happened. Okay, maybe I'm doing great. January comes. Nothing happens, right? I'm like, man, all right. So maybe I'm doing right. Maybe something, maybe something I did was maybe it was me. Maybe I don't know. Like, okay, maybe I'm changing. Maybe they like me now. January 30th, 2019, to 15 p.m. Central Standard Time, I get an alert from HR. I'm like, okay, I don't like these random HR pop-ups on my calendars. All right. So I'm going into the office and I'm like, all right, my pip ended six weeks ago or three months ago. I should be good. Like, maybe they're telling me, you know, great job or whatever. No, they fire me. They fire me. And after like spending some time and thinking through it, they literally kept me through vacations so that people could take their time off and I could do their work. And then once everyone was back by like the end of January, Diamond was gone. So that actually turned out to be the biggest blessing in my life because, again, I was always on this continuous improvement mind frame. So months prior, I had applied to Bryce University for a data analytics bootcamp because I'm starting this lane six sigma thing. I want to learn more about coding and like, how do I improve these parts? Because we had like eight product escapes. It was just a really bad time. So I'm trying to figure out like, how can I improve? I need to learn coding. Literally, the bootcamp started again, I got fired January 30th, it started, I want to say that was a Friday, the bootcamp started that Monday. So I'm like, Diamond, what are you going to do? Are you going to just cry every day? Or you're just going to do something else? So I showed up to the bootcamp and I told them like, Hey, I lost my job. I don't know if I'm gonna be able to pay for it. Can you all work with me? And they did. So I did that bootcamp for six months, I was unemployed for eight months. So during that eight months, I was in therapy because after dealing with them, you need it. Actually, I was in therapy during all of it. But yeah, so I was in therapy. I'm going through this bootcamp, applying for jobs, just trying to get into this data space. I didn't know where in this data space, I just went to land somewhere and get like, I love aerospace manufacturing. I love it. I literally have ISO standards saved in my phone from aerospace manufacturing. And I occasionally read them. That is my, when it comes to like aerospace manufacturing, I really, really like it. Yeah, I'm weird for that. I'll accept it. But what ended up happening was eight months later, I land a job as a data engineer. I don't even know what the hell that is. But I land this job. And like, that job led me to everything else that I've been doing. So as horrible as that story was, I needed it. I needed to see one that I don't need people to treat me that way. And I don't have to like work my way for them to not treat me that way. It's either you like me or you don't. You respect me or you don't. You can't make someone do it. Like no matter what you do. And I learned that even when you try your hardest, they're going to keep moving the goalposts. So it's like, you might as well just accept who you are, be who you are, and if they don't like it. Oh, well, like, and that's been my mentality going forward, as well as I genuinely have tried to not be in organizations where I'm the only person of color. And that is, I don't, I don't know how to say this, but I'm gonna just say it. It is not a badge of honor to be the first. You have a weight of the past and the present that no one really understands. So presently, you have to represent your culture, whatever that is, your race, whoever your identity, you're, you're that for everyone. And then you also have to be cognizant of, oh, I have to do so great at this. They want more people that look like me. Why would I want that weight? I don't want it ever again, because you can never be fully present. You always have to be on this pendulum of like, am I doing enough where they'll hire more people like me? And am I representing the whole of me? Right? I don't want that. Yeah. That makes sense. You just want to be recognized for your skills, right? That's it. If I mess up, I want it to be diamonds mess up, not black women, black engineered women, but I don't want it to represent anything past me. If I mess up, let it be my fault. Yeah, I get that. I've often been the token woman. So I can relate on that level. So tell me, I mean, this is great advice. So what additional advice do you have for people who are struggling with bullying, corporate bullying, struggling with racism, sexism, and what advice do you have to give to anybody dealing with that currently? I'll start with it's not you. I'll just start with that. Because sometimes it's just people are humans are shitty at time. That's it. And even if you mess up, even if you do, nothing warrants being bullied. We're not robots. We're going to mess up. And robots mess up. So it's like, it's not you. So let's start there. Always keep your resume updated. Always, like, always, always, always, network, network with people outside of your organization. And the biggest piece I would give anyone is build your own brand. I have been very intentional about that for the past seven, eight years after this happened. Because a part of me perverbial died when I saw that I was giving everything that I could to this business or this organization. And that meant nothing. And if I continue to place my identity on how a corporate organization is going to treat me, how I feel about myself will continue to fluctuate. So build something outside of my job. So people know me not for working at any company that worked for a lot of people know me for being diamond. And that is what gets me in rooms and in conversations that I didn't know existed, not because of mine. And I don't want to say this as like the millennial who job hopped, but I don't have that loyalty to organizations like that. They don't have it to us. So it's like, I treat it as a transactional arrangement. You know, it's been conditioned for me. If I do this, then I'll keep my job. If I don't, then I probably may need to look around. Or if y'all treat me this way, then I may have to look around. So I think like, those are the pieces of advice that has kept me just knowing that like, it's not me. And even if it isn't, does it warrant this degree of treatment? Did I hurt someone? No. Did I intentionally have malice intent towards anyone? No. Okay, then we can work with it. Next, I'm going to network. I'm going to build my brand, have people getting to know me. I'm going to continuously build my skill set, make myself marketable. Because again, there is no loyalty. And sometimes humans are shitty. Even if you really really like your job, you can get a new manager tomorrow who is not friendly, or who has expectations for you that you don't have. You know, and they're not communicated. So it's like, there's a lot of variables in these equations that we don't control. So it's like, how can you control what you can control? Like, I can control, you know, my network and who I get to know, I can control my resume and the experiences that I try to have, whether it's outside of my job in a voluntary capacity, whatever, I can control that. I can control how people feel about me. No matter how hard I try. But I can always do my best to try to find people who feel the same way about my, about me that I do, or at least is indifferent. Like, you know, I can, I can deal with that. You don't know how to feel about me. I can deal with that. But if you've already committed yourself to feeling a way about me, I can't do anything about that. That's great advice. And Diamond, do you have any advice for somebody who is witnessing a bullying network? And how can advice for how to become an advocate and adversary for somebody? Yeah, I think the advice I would give is speak up, witness, talk through what you witnessed and realize that you are not different. You're not special. That that can be you too. And I think if people have that mentality as they watch situations, especially in the social media age, that the world is circular, where something can come back in another form and these aren't isolated incidents, I think people would be more willing to not just be a bystander when it comes to seeing something that is hateful and that goes out of their way to hurt someone, intentional hurt. We're going to hurt humans unintentionally just because we're humans. We have different experiences. We can work past that, but intentionally going out of your way to hurt someone, speak up about it. Great advice. Any resources that people you can recommend to educate on these issues or find out more on how to just be better? Just listen, that's what I would start with. I will also say text 988, which is like a suicide hotline number. If you're having those thoughts, text call, those people listen. I called it several times during that, you know, when it was a much longer number than that. When it was when I was in the thick of it and just having someone to just listen matters, like just listen. Resources and Melinda Hart, I can't think of her book, but her name is Melinda Hart and she has a book, it's something about workplace. I can't think of it, but I would say that dang, I can't think of that book title now. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I can't think of it. She does a really good job of like highlighting what the minority experience is as a black woman in spaces. I can't speak to any other identities or ethnic groups outside of my own, because those are the resources that I primarily look for. Diamond. Oh my gosh. What a story. Thank you for so much for being willing to share. I hope people here and listen and I think we're moving as a society towards feeling empowered to speak up more and to say more and to stand up for better behavior because as you so. Yeah, I hope so too. The book is called The Memo by Melinda Hart. The Memo? Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Well, again, just thank you so much. I can't thank you enough. I just so have so much appreciation for you. Thank you for getting vulnerable with us and talking through this and it means a lot and it means a lot that you trusted me to personally to share the story, to help share this story. I appreciate being asked to share it. I haven't, I've shared parts of it, but I've never shared in totality what I went through in that like two years that I worked there. Well, I am sorry for what you went through, but I am grateful that you are using it in such a positive way and finding resources from that. So thank you. Thank you. And thanks for everything you do. You are a powerhouse woman. I gotta tell you man. Like you are no slouch constantly learning through it all. I'm just gonna keep going through my master's and while I'm doing a couple of certificates, you know, just like you are amazing. You are amazing. You know, like I appreciate it. One piece of the, I was the advice, one thing that I did get from that same manager was like, I'm too ambitious and idealistic and I was like, but I will take that any day. Right. Wow. Why is that a crime? I don't know. Oh my gosh. Oh, well, keep it up. I love that ambition. Me too. Hey, I gotta, yeah, that's just who I am. You know, I gotta tell you, you know, in data and talking to so many people now about their careers ambition and the constant curiosity and wanting to learn is the core of so what makes us successful, right? Yeah. You know what we do is just, so I just believe that. I do, I believe that as well. And I also have experience. So now I believe that there's a lot of people who view that in a negative way because they are insecure and don't want that exposed. They know a certain set of skills. Anything past that, don't touch it. Yep. Oh, yeah. Oh, again, Diamond, thank you. And I'll, we'll post all the link to your website and that kind of thing as well and to the previous podcast. So thank you. I appreciate you. And to all of our listeners out there, thank you for listening to this episode today. And if you'd like to keep up to date in the latest in podcasts and the latest data management education, go to dataversity.net, four slash subscribe. And I will say, as always, to end this podcast, stay curious people, get, be aware, stay curious, continue learning, and let's make everybody's careers a little bit easier. Thank you for listening to Dataversity Talks, a podcast brought to you by Dataversity. 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