 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are joining us from. Hi, welcome. My name is Abhijit Bhaduri and I'm going to be your host for today's conversation with a really interesting person and a very interesting subject. And I can pretty much assure you, chances are that you have not heard of that technology, because it's a very interesting sector that we are going to bring you examples from today. DREAMers in Unicorns in Season 3 has been focused entirely on well-being and in that we often talk about four dimensions, which is mind, body, heart and soul. Mind is about your intellectual curiosity, it's about the kind of psychological safety that you feel in terms of your physical wellness, the kind of food that you eat, the exercise, etc. So that's the body part of it. Heart comes from your well-being comes from the relationships that you build. And of course, soul is all about the purpose that guides you throughout your life. So these are the four elements that really we get to talk to with each of our incredible guests that we have been following. And thank you so much for joining us. And therefore, all I want to say is today's guest comes from a sector which is, you know, how should I say, you've heard of FinTech, which is about technology that guides financial services. You've heard of ITTech, HealthTech, etc., etc. But guaranteed, you've never heard of RailTech. And that's what we are going to talk about today. So don't go anywhere, grab a seat, we are just getting started. Hi there. So, Mirad, welcome. And I can just bring up my guest, Sajid. Thank you so much for being here. And Sajid, I'd like to sort of introduce you. But I always think that besides, of course, saying that you are the Vice President of HR for Webtech Corporation, what else can I say about you that people don't know? So why don't you introduce yourself? And let me say hello to all the viewers who have joined in. Thank you so much if you have your questions to add them. But Sajid, welcome to the show. Sure. Thanks, Abidjit. So team, look, I'll try to give you my introduction by saying that in one line that I'm a HR practitioner. So I've spent almost like 23 to 24 years in multiple sectors. And the good part is I've seen companies that I've worked with go through growth. And at times it has gone through restructuring reorganization. And then finally last six years has been an incredible journey for me to be part of a pre-large project we are doing with Indian Railways on setting up three factories in three corners of India, literally remote sites. And I think that's what defines me today in terms of my experience as a core member of the business to do this pretty large project, which is we are part of Vaptic Corporation now. It's a rail technology company as Abidjit was mentioning. In simple, we build, yes, so that's really the introduction Abidjit. Thank you so much. Sajid, it's always incredible to learn about people's career choices. And did you always want to be in HR? What was your ambition when you were growing up? Sure. So look, I very, very openly, I didn't have a, I would say have an inkling about human resource management. At that point of time, when I was doing my post graduation, I wanted to do a Masters of Business Administration. Actually, the interest of HR led by my own uncle, who was HR practitioner, and he was about 10 to 12 years senior. So I had someone in the family, Abidjit, that led me to this field. And I will just tell you, I think having a strong social connect and network is helps people in the early career. And as I grew in the career, in my professional career, I have a personal liking for human resources as a subject as well. Why, why is that? I think the big part is it's human beings are complex people. One, normally you see, you cannot look a mathematical formula to retain someone, to grow someone. Each person has a story. And Abidjit, if I ask you your career story and what decisions you take, would be different than mine. And that really is the interesting part. And I do feel that in the early stage of HR career, you don't realize it. But as you grow in this field, you realize the, I would say many, many different kind of challenges of this field. Right. And that's the reason you have specialization as well within HR of people taking up industrial relations, comp and Ben, or as being an HR generalist. Is it a better idea to be a generalist or a specialist? What would you say? Okay, I would say the best HR colleagues I have had are people who have changed tracks and have had the flavor of both sides. I had, I was, my personal stories have been a HR generalist throughout, except for last maybe two or three years where I had a deep dive on merchant acquisition side of, which is a specialization. So to answer your question, Abidjit, the best is to go both sides and then grow. A lot of people you would see who would do that. I certainly did that. I started off as a generalist, then did a stint as a specialist in IR as it was called then, came back to being a generalist, actually then did a stint as a specialist in learning and development, etc. So I've sort of really moved and then even as a generalist to be able to move between different geographies, that was a great learning for me and I had never worked initially outside of India. And it gave me a great chance to learn about different countries, HR out there, etc. So you're right that the more kind of variety, it's a bit like the central premise of HR as you said is we are like everybody else in some respects and we are, we have some similarity with others in some respects. And then there are some respects we have, which we are completely unique. So I think discovering that pattern about people is really a lifetime process. I certainly have been fascinated the more when you meet people you discover how much there is to know about each one. So yeah, you're right that so what's been one of the setbacks that would have, did you ever face that kind of a scenario where sometimes when in the early stages of one's career, people don't necessarily experience, success is great, but when they experience failure for the first time, a lot of times it leads to self doubt that did I choose the right profession? Am I in the right place? Should I have done something else? So did you experience any of that? And if so, how you deal with it? Sure. So I would say yes, absolutely. I did face pretty early in my career and I'll give you the something that I learned from it and I want to share. So my first job that I had was with a very large Indian company, Larson and Dubro, and I realized that my own, it's a very specialist role that I was doing of rotating, it was called a job rotation program and I wanted to basically look at an option where I can grow horizontally in HR. I was given an option of moving to Nasik from Bombay. It was a new plant that was coming up and I would use it as more of reflection of not taking the right decision. I didn't take up that role. I wanted to be in a bigger city. If I would have taken that role, if you're in a new site, it is coming up, you really learn about business, not just about HR and you would get involved into labor and employment, to construction, to project management, everything and I think those skills are something that one should learn, pick up very early and therefore, as we have remote sites in our company, I really suggest to my fellow colleagues that take up assignments which are remote. Don't, bigger city, the shine of bigger city, you can get later as well in life. So if I would have done that, Abhijit, I would have grown from a skill perspective much faster, not just about hierarchy level, I'm talking about skill level to know the business of the company that you work for. So that's my strong, very strong recommendation from people who are watching this. I would sort of then say that I think the point that you make is that when you take up a challenge in the early stages of your career, what I hear you say is that when you move to this new site where things are coming up, you not only know about this kind of, it's boundaryless in terms of the way that you operate, you are doing some of your contracts, you are looking at labor management, you are looking at building career paths, etc. All of that you are doing, but you're also learning about project management, the financial elements. So at the early stage, it is in some sense, when you work in some of the smaller sites, you get a fairly comprehensive view of the business and HR and different elements of it. So in some sense, you get, if I were to compare your career journey at the beginning, I would say it's really like a buffet. You have to get a view of everything which is available and then only take a look at what you want to specialize and go back for second helpings, etc. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Sajid. We are talking to Sajid Iqbal, the vice president of HR of WebTech Corporation. It is a rail tech corporation, I should say, the technology of railways. You know, I grew up in, as my father was in the railways, so I grew up in the railway colony. So when you talk about rail tech, it's something that suddenly resonates a lot with me as well. So Sajid, when you started to do your work, you went through different corporations. When you joined a new company, some of the things that people can do to understand the cultural nuances of each workplace, because they are different. Every company is different. What works in one place, what is appreciated in one place, often doesn't get appreciated elsewhere. So in that sense, when people join a new corporation, they often make mistakes. So what are some of the things that you would advise people to look for when they join a corporation and what would they look out for? Sure. So I have two things to talk about. The first one is, I think the important part is some of the functions which are outside the own function you belong to. Having conversations with either the manager or the senior leader in that function, I'll give an example. I personally feel that to understand business or finance, having connects and maybe friendship through some of the colleagues in finance or if the company is into operations, maybe supply chain. So initial one month, it's extremely, extremely important to have a wider network of people, to not just know them by their name and what they do, but to understand what value does that function has in the value chain of the entire organization. Let me give an example on this to drive the point. So if it is a company which is in healthcare. So there is an angle to the fact that the customer piece becomes very critical. So I used to work for G Healthcare, which is also called Vipro G. So understanding what are the customer facing roles? How service is critical for the quality of the product? Because that's from where the information flows in. So I feel that before we spend too much time in our own area of work, understanding the top, maybe the key department function, whatever name we give, and having a connect with them to understand how does the flow of business works is very, very critical. And the second part is I do feel that people value the subject matter expertise we bring in. And I do feel that working maybe if it's a 90 day plan to really plan where will I add value in terms of team that I belong to. And finally, a small tip is understanding what are the top three or four agenda of your manager? Of what are the things that are pinpoints or something is driving? In the initial three months, we'll put the person in really, really strong footing to make and mark. I think just not job description, the goals of the person, but the goals of the manager is equally important to know how we achieve them. So Sajid, my takeaway, I would say is one you are talking about the importance of understanding the financial element of the business. Effectively, how does it work, money, how does it add value to the consumer or customer as the case might be. And actually, then also looking at it from a closer point, because when you look at the financial element of the business, you get an overview of the business. So you understand where your role fits in into that overall scheme of things. So if I were to draw a parallel, I would say that understand, read the entire play if you're going to be on perform a role in a play. First read the entire play, you understand, is it a tragedy, comedy, there is that social setting, watch time period, what kind of characters, how many characters. Then you read your portions a little deeper. And from there, you are talking about the fact that you need to be able to understand the goals of your manager, which makes it very powerful for you to succeed. So that's great advice, Sajid. And as the viewers, just to recap for all the viewers, we are talking to Sajid Iqbal, who's the VPHR for WebTech Corporation. And we are going to talk about wellness in the workplace. But one of the important elements of wellness is to be able to settle down in your career when you take a role at whichever stage, not just in the early stages of your career. Even today, if you were to join a corporation, these are useful things to keep in mind. So I think we have L.S. Moorthy who says that I would sort of agree with that. I wanted to switch tracks and talk about wellness as we are sort of looking at your career journey. Wellness, does it change, does the definition change according to the industry? Or are the elements of wellness pretty universal? What is your belief? Yeah, so Abhijeet, I was doing some reading. And one of the recent research by Tuft University, which covers about 19,000 employers, most of them would be in North America, is about that it actually has impact across all industries. Some industries, the impact is more quantifiable. And I'll give an example for that. In a company which has manufacturing, the safety issues, it could be a safety injury because of the fatigue, is very, most of the companies have an alert system, which gives about that a particular factory, let's say there are 30 factories, one of them we have multiple injuries happening. So this is an alert mechanism. But think about our industry, which is like you're talking the beginning of fintech or industry, which is business outsourcing or IT, where the alerts of an injury is not really in a physical space, because the nature of work is not that you have a EHS as a big, big factor at a factory. So in summary, Abhijeet, I feel very strongly it is everywhere. In some industry, it bubbles up. In some industry, we don't see it. It's an iceberg, which you don't see it. And I think the important part is, because of last two years, situation on COVID, there's a lot of research that's happening in this area. And that research is coming up much more than what we have seen in the past, Abhijeet. Yeah, I would say that, you know, if 2020 was really the challenge of the pandemic, which just took over our lives, caught everybody by surprise, the world over. I also think that 2021, in some sense, we are sort of looking at this almost two years of isolation, and the well-being challenges that have come in, in terms of all the four elements, mental, physical, spiritual, and relationship-oriented elements of it. So I'd like to really talk to you about these four elements. You spoke about the first one, which is looking at the elements of safety, fatigue, which is the physical element of it, physical well-being. In white-collar jobs, you don't necessarily notice the fatigue, because you are sort of really stuck at the desk, you're typing away. But those long hours actually do make a difference. You know, when you see that in the factories and manufacturing, and the reason why I'm sort of stressing on that is we haven't really had a guest who's spoken at length about the manufacturing environment. I would love to learn more about that, what you are doing. So tell me about what do you see happening with the well-being element in the manufacturing sector? Then walk me through some of that. Sure. So this too, for the viewers, we actually have, our company has about five factories, and we manufacture locomotives or parts that go into a metro project. So these are pretty intensive testing happens. So I'm just trying to give the lay of the land here. Some interesting statistics I'll share with you is we have an employee assistance program partner, and one thing we have realized looking at the number of calls coming up. So we do have a technology center, and then we have these manufacturing sites. The number of calls reaching out for help is very, very low from our colleagues in the factory setting. So I was having a dialogue, and we talked a little more with our partner, and the partner said this is something common we are seeing just not in your organization, but we see that across manufacturing. So the two things that come out, which is an action for all of us is, one is the awareness level of even asking for help. We can coin it as counseling help, but asking for help could also be to the manager to appear. It doesn't mean to be to a call center of the partner company that normally we have, but that awareness is very low. The second piece is, even if the awareness is there, there is an inhibition, and I'll use a Hindi word, jijakna. So there is this piece of not opening up, and it is not an easy thing that an email or someone standing up as a plant head could just say that, hey, please reach out this number. What we are trying to do is that in a smaller setting, we are trying to do in 15-20 people is to have conversations on topics which it could be two angles to it. One could be the wellness angle, and the other thing is we have named it as speak up. It could also be stress being driven by the culture inside the organization. And for both, we are having smaller conversations, group conversations, Abhijit. And I do feel that that has much bigger impact than all the email or WhatsApp, which we can say it's a tick mark that we have communicated. So net, net Abhijit, if I have to summarize low awareness in manufacturing setup, and also there is an inhibition, maybe because of the fact that people come from environments, even previous companies where this is not something up in front that we do. So that's really two key points that I wanted to highlight Abhijit. Thank you. And you know, I think Sajid, you raised a very interesting element. And for the viewers, we are talking about wellness in the workplace, and we have a great partnership with Mana Wellness. And you know, I wanted to really use this particular season, season three, to bring all the guests who are doing exemplary work in the field of well-being. And one of the things that caught my attention in terms of what you are doing is that building that element of psychological safety, which I think matters so much, you know, psychological safety is the comfort that I can walk up to you and whether it is to say that I'm feeling extremely stressed and I'm not feeling good about whatever, or to even disagree with the point of view or to suggest something. And I love the phrase that you use, jijakna. You know, it's just that, yes, the literal translation is hesitation, but I think jijakna also has the element of, there's an element of shame, potential fear of that shame that, you know, what would you think of me if I did say what I had on my mind? So I think that really makes an enormous difference for people to be able to have that comfort. What are some of the things that you see people doing actively to build that sense of comfort in the team members? What do you think, Europe? Sure. So I feel that if you look at one of the most important role in an organization setup is the role of the immediate manager. And whether we call it frontline managers or if you are in that IT company, you can just, I think most of the time it's called manager. I think that role is extremely powerful because it's really a frontline of the information coming in first. So we actually, what we have seen is that if that set of population is provided information which can be used in either informal or formal setting of communication to the team. And I tell you the most powerful thing if you are listening to today's conversation, you are in any role is to provide, give your own example of that you have used some, maybe ask for help or reached out to your manager or peer because that gives a very strong message that it's just not passing on a communication coming from senior leadership team. It's as a manager or a colleague, you personally have done it. So I will make it very simple. I feel the role that we have of the frontline managers is a very, very key part. And we tried to look at that population as our target population to do those conversations one on one or in smaller groups. And look in India, sorry, go ahead. Let me ask that question. Apologies, I interrupted you. I wanted to know, you said that people hesitate to bring it up with their managers, etc. Has it ever happened to you that you hesitated to bring up a challenge that you were facing? How did you get over that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll share. So I was actually for about four to five years, I was in the US and I had a situation that my spouse was doing her management program. And therefore, I had a situation where I had to basically pick up really small in, my kids were two and four years. And because she had to go to university, I had to step out pretty early from office. And my hesitation, I was feeling that because I have to leave it around, let's say by 3pm to pick them up and then bring them to our house. There was this piece that I'm not around after a specific time. And I was feeling that that's, that is something my manager does not openly, openly speaking to me that he feels that, so this was linked with, and it happens to a lot, a lot of us, it was linked to performance. But the reality is one can, today, if you look, this is about 15 years ago. If you talk about today, Abhijit, things are much more better of the fact that you can explain your situation. So my learning is, it is absolutely important to be vulnerable and explain the situation that you're going through. Whether it is a medical situation, there could be a personal medical situation as well, or supporting a family member on something, which would of course have a end date. It's not like, so that's, that's something that I had as a hesitation Abhijit. And when you look at this hesitation, it comes, you are right that there is this whole thing that you initially think it is so minor that I don't know whether it's even worth bringing up. And then at some point of time, it's so large that you kind of think that now there is no point bringing it up because the challenge is just way too large. So when it's really all consuming, what are some of the things that you would advise people can do to bring up those issues? How do you think? Sure, absolutely. So the first thing is, I feel that I'll use simple words, suggestions like have a, if you're new in the organization, have a conversation with a peer first to understand that is this something that you are, you have in your mind? Is it something that is okay to bring up? It's a brand new organization. But if you have been in an organization, I personally feel having a one-on-one dialogue like you were saying Abhijit, to open up the topic is an important one. And the way to look at it is what's the worst it can happen? There are more upsides than downside when one opens up. And we're talking about here, just not about stress, real role-related or you're taking off Abhijit, like you pointed out, we're talking about all four elements here, correct? Which defines overall well-being. So Abhijit, that's what it is. No, no, mine is only heart and soul, just so I'm just recapping for those of us who joined it maybe a little late. So these four elements all become important. And as you were mentioning that, it's important to build the sense of comfort with your manager where maybe if I were to rephrase what you just said, I think what I heard you say is you build the sense of comfort little by little so you can progressively keep the person online about what's happening with you every single day in your life, in some sense. I wanted to actually say that what if you find the manager intimidating or not very open to that, how do you get over that barrier? That's what I wanted to know about. Yeah, sure. So look, I feel that one thing that we have implemented in the company and my GE and now WAPTEC both companies have is we call it three roles that you can go to when you have concerns and we grant it a speak up. So if your manager is intimidating, there is the HR manager to reach out. And I also talk to you when I say HR manager, it is in the role of an HR manager that he or she when I've seen most people taking it very seriously as that this is by part of my job to do that. So that's the second part. The third is the one over one manager. And we also have seen a fourth one which some companies have it is the compliance or legal counsel. And these are neutral roles, I will call it, right? Because when I say neutral roles, manager and one over one manager is a hierarchy that you belong to. But these neutral roles whether it is HR, legal and compliance, these are the people or roles one can seek. Sometimes these are roles of formalized in companies that you can go and talk about your concern. So let me also explain to you just going and talking to HR manager, HR manager could give a tact of how you bring up this topic. And he may say this is serious enough that you have to actually go to your one over one manager for it. And we should not, I think this part of intermediate manager is a real thing in all companies to be in mine as well. But I think going to these pillar roles related to speak up has helped us Abhijeet. What we do, I'll tell you one more thing is we try to see once in once in a month at key sites. And then we have something called compliance review board once in a quarter where the head of the region along with all the HR leaders along with business leaders, we bring up a scorecard of how many people are reaching out to this these avenues. Interesting part on this is a very low number is also not a good thing, which means the culture is not great that very few people are coming up a very high number could be it's absolutely it's a good thing because we have seen high number and people are not anonymous means that you have it's a it's a litmus test for having an open culture. And it could be that when you analyze it and we discuss it not by issues but just from a start perspective to be coming up from some pockets which again one has to deep dive. So Abhijeet, the reason I'm giving the full process part is it is not just me saying that this is done is being done you have to run it as a process Abhijeet to make it impact in the organization. So you know Sajid one of the things that you said which caught my attention was that when you look at collecting that information that you get a lot of you know issues from a particular department instead of looking at that as a challenge you are saying that a lot of people are speaking up to you know and especially if it is not anonymous that's a good sign of psychological safety that people are comfortable to do that. So this is one indicator that I think the leaders must look out for or people around can look out for but the other is when that was even more interesting that if there are no issues being raised it doesn't mean that you know everything is hunky-dory it could potentially mean that there are issues which people are not comfortable raising and what is the role of HR or the individual to get over those kind of challenges so how do you handle that? Sure sure so we had the company one process which we used to call it as session D and the reason I'm giving you because it just it comes to my mind is is that once in a year all the key aspects of where potentially with the team a one-over-one manager level used to have a conversation verbal and talk about that look these are the avenues that are there if you have issues whether it is related to wellness or it could be related to compliance as well right because it could be areas where we have to follow the process or the law and this kind of once in a year could we could see the graph of issues going up it's it's literally like hockey stick after these kind of conversation now why if you ask number one but it's very important to have refresher because any organization will be in and out of people second it gives a message that it's not to see you on the top who's writing an email it's actually someone I know who's bringing this up that look we as organization would like that it's an open environment and you leverage avenues to bring up topics or keep it anonymous if it is a for example for from a wellness perspective there are help needed on mental illness for example so these are the avenues and you can keep it anonymous and we don't need to know but please use right so that one broad process once in a year we have seen it work that's one second is is examples being talked without naming in a all-hands perspective also makes a mark and I'll tell you the why these when I say that we give with an example we had situations in one of our factories where it's an industrial environment is not there and we had a lot of almost 25 percent women at the factory shop floor so what used to happen we have seen this happen at the site in the factory is that there are the women employees were raising concerns about comments being made which are not they're not being comfortable and we had to and also some I would say they're not let's say then someone is not feeling comfortable because of the fact that someone wants to come make friendship whether the the woman employee or a male employee is not very comfortable with it right we had a bit of the interesting part is these are all 19 to 20 year olds first job first time out of college and for us the the big part was that at the senior leadership level at the at the factory the person who's in the job is my colleague Shankar he was making sure that if there are issues that are coming up we bring it on in the all-employee setting and talk about that hey we are seeing topics being brought up if anyone we really feel that if we're happy that these concerns are being raised but it's also an opportunity for us as colleagues to have an environment which is I would say an environment where people feel comfortable to come to work so you're not giving out the name right but you're calling out the issue and you're doing it in a setting which is I would say a safety net is there when you talk about it without naming people so so Abhijeet I do feel these thing that I'm talking about happens and I've worked in three companies most of the people watching it happens a lot in almost all companies and we see in certain age groups or certain places where it's a first job and people have not worked together maybe the number of issues are higher and then it we saw it stabilizing now this factory is four-year-old Abhijeet so we do feel that the first year was different versus now and you know when you look at your organization you talked about some fabulous examples of you know looking at giving people psychological safety you know through the anonymity or raising the issues and that's probably my big takeaway you know Sajed that when you see our own assumptions of openness we always think that if I have some issue with you if I bring it up you're probably going to feel bad and so people don't do that if there is a single reason that I have learned that you know with the team members or with your colleagues or anyone even in the family raising the issue and stating your current feeling is sort of a powerful way to build trust in the organization or the team or in that relationship so I think that's to me a big takeaway that raising the issue is actually that's one of the ways in which we make it a more inclusive place where you can say that okay I'm not comfortable with this and it's not looked at as something negative that it's a way of you know making space the way I think about it as in many ways it's like saying that if you and I we have to share a seat yeah if I say that hey Sajed you're taking up too much of the space I am unable to sit comfortably can you make a little space for me I think it's really like that an inclusive space is where both people are comfortable sitting together you know so I think that's how I look at it absolutely. So when you think about you know we've spoken about mind, body, the heart and soul part of it we are you know talking about well-being these are two elements of it I'd love to know of some examples that you know you've you know where you've worked on doing something which is about well-being in terms of connecting with people etc to facilitate that or to help people find a purpose you know what are some of the things that you've seen working talk to us about it. Sure absolutely so look at the heart and soul part I so this is a it's a very interesting subject the reason being that look if you look at these two elements together some of the things like the social connect that happens if you can you quantify it that what was our return of investment of bringing families together it's tough to quantify but I think those connects are the ones that connects us to the organization we belong to or the company we belong to and one of the best examples of jeep which a lot of us on this call would relate to is is the army and one of my colleagues who is part of is a colleague of mine shared that we let's take the example of armed forces there is a very very strong purpose in terms of their own existence but one of the things that on connecting the heart is think about the army person on the borders or is at a remote site away from the family one of the things that army that is a cantonment area you one would see consistently is that they bring the family in the middle in terms of whether it is taking care of a school at availability of the school or it is about the fact that God forbid something happens the family gets taken care of so if you see the underlining thing and is the fact that there's basically there's a certain message that we will take care of your family but the many things that gets done for that and imagine the highest level of sacrifice that can happen is really done by our soldiers and armed forces people right and if you see the research on HR most of things including its assessment centers have started in the army correct and I related to this piece of heart that you're talking about there's a lot of things that they they do to connect the purpose and also to connect with the people who are who are family members so Abhijith I wanted to bring that out because it will relate to a lot of a lot of us on the call today I completely agree that you know when people sort of talk about examples of the army I think a lot of people focus on the fact that it's at one level extremely hierarchical organization so it is possible to get things done because you just issue an order and it gets done actually that's a myth and you know I've spoken to several people who've talked about their own example the army actually focuses a lot on connecting people through the heart you know which is that and you're you're right that if you look at the control material you know the people are really brought together and the you know the while there is hierarchy in the workplace outside of the workplace you know people do sort of they share common facilities they share common schools for the kids so in multiple ways they bring they make an effort to bring down that hierarchy and also I think for me the most important piece Sajid is that when the officer who's really respected and trusted when that person says that tomorrow we'll go for a 30 kilometer run the officer is working right in front he is running with the troops you know and running three steps in front that is really the inspiration and most of the times when you see leaders who are not respected it's when they issue an order which they don't do themselves I think that's one of the greatest pieces you know I think that example has always inspired me to say that you know if you cannot do something better than the team you have no business asking them to do it so I think that adds to a lot of credibility we have got a question from Debashisha I'm going to bring it up on the screen he says that how do you get the learning team and talent management team to play an integral role in moving this mind shift change sure so I so thanks Debashish for bringing up an interesting part of how we are organized in HR I do feel that the best thing that could happen is that these two I see it as a pillar and then you have a broader HR is a function is a building these two are pillars and there are three or four more pillars so coming HR team coming together cutting across all these aspects including talent management and then looking at the fact that in today's world maybe 10 years earlier wellness was not in the center of I would say in terms of both mind share and investment of money right and the good part is not just the HR team I think it is now coming in the picture right in the center even for the senior leadership team or whether you call it to the CEO or whichever name we give so I feel that if it is being driven as one of the five four or five agendas that the company HR team has to drive all these elements that you're talking about will be there I'll be very specific to talent management if you have asked about it is that if you look at one of the things that recently we did davijith was we have actually done a job architecture first time I've gone through our job architecture process in my company which means the old levels are all gone and then as an integrated company have new levels it comes under talent management in most companies but the impact of that today is that you're literally having employees who would be asking questions about comparison comparisons will happen am I pegged at the light right level and which means abhijith from a wellness perspective is again it's going to if you look at a year's graph this is a time where where I would say activating communication small group meetings on understanding what are they going through and it doesn't mean that okay calling up a phone number and that's the answer to it but the human connector that we talked about with the vashish of wherever we have seen the situations coming up by manager or manager bringing it up to HR manager or HR manager directly connecting really really helps on those situations so how I'm linking the wellness piece to talent management is organizations go through these changes they could be reorganization they could be merger and abhijith we have seen a lot of stress when two companies merge maybe there's no action to happen but the rumor really go up so my role will be present or not and abhijith I learned by this question by sharing a personal example I had to go and meet a doctor and I was trying to get my blood pressure normal blood pressure checked so he asked me job says salamat and his angle was that what could be the reason he's getting his blood pressure checked right he was thinking what's happening in the company so we underestimate sometimes the stress sometimes we create more stress but but under estimating it that this kind of big change creates a lot of I would say anxiety is the right word I'm reaching out helps abhijith thanks for giving me time to explain this so we have a comment from Rajesh she said they're on finding purpose in life Sarju's thought to hire fresh diploma graduates from government diploma colleges is making a change in families many of them are first generation guys in a formal job and this makes a lot of difference some are sole breadwinners for the family and some are funding sibling studies and some are financing their own marriage expenses absolutely and I think you know when you look at the workplace there are if I were to summarize today's conversation with you Sarju there were a couple of things that stood out for me one I think in the in the manufacturing sector we don't very often see you know enough people talking about well-being and and all kinds of elements of well-being and I think that's an opportunity for us to really focus on doing that because there are so many of these large corporations which are you know employing thousands and thousands of people and how many factories did you say you have Sajid you mentioned it I'm missing it yeah so we have about five factories in India and where are the factories just tell me about that yeah so interestingly so we have one which is a large two large factories one is in outskirts of Bangalore in Hosur one we have in Marhora which is about 80 km from Patna one we have in Shah Jahanpur in Uttar Pradesh we have another one in Gandhidham which is next to Kandilapur and the last one is a factory in Calcutta so when we look at India's map we literally got east west south so Gandhidham Shah Jahanpur Marhora Hosur and Calcutta yes so brilliant I also like the fact that you talked about you know the element of raising the issues in some sense making your voice heard is an important element of well-being you also talked about the fact that during mergers and acquisitions the rumor mills can really generate a lot of stress and so just being aware that this happens the role of the leader I think is being able to have those conversations in different forums and I would just sort of add that you know having the conversation one to many which is a you know town hall kind of a format or within your department so relatively smaller chunk of that and above all in the one-to-one settings I think doing it well in all three kinds of settings is very important element of you know being able to build wellness in the workplace I just want to say thank you very much Sajid for talking about your own personal experiences as well and there were lovely examples which you said about the hesitation that you had in the early stages of your career very powerful examples and insights I want to say thanks on behalf of of course you know all our viewers and listeners thank you so much for being here for all the questions and comments because this is really what makes it a two-way conversation every Thursday as we are talking about this I also want to acknowledge the role of mana wellness for being a partner and sort of bringing these issues to light because I think isn't enough conversation that happens in some of these aspects you know when you think about what can we do to build that awareness you know in people about well-being and all four aspects mind body heart and soul so thanks a lot once again and we are coming up to the end of the year so I want to wish you our viewers the very best for 2022 and thank you so much for joining us and it's just absolutely incredible to be able to have you as a guest and see you again soon