 Welcome everybody to our session on embracing agility with inclusion and equity with Tina Winothe, who's the global head of DEI at ThoughtWorks. So over to you Tina. Hey, good morning everyone. So we are going to be talking about, you know, embracing agility with inclusion and equity. And, you know, one of the things I have, you know, I've been with ThoughtWorks for close to 20 years now. And one of the things being in the operations side and being very close to the work that we do in the social change and the diversity equity and inclusion space is study how our working practices, you know, how agility impacts inclusion in our workplace. And we've had numerous conversations about this right from the MD of ThoughtWorks India to the folks on the ground to up to our developers to our program managers and business analysts everybody and we have seen, you know, both the advantages and the pitfalls, you know, of agility and inclusion in the workplace. So I'm going to share, you know, my experiences here and I'm hoping for, for, you know, for, for your feedback and for your thoughts on this. So to start off with right the interconnectedness of, you know, agility and diversity equity and inclusion is something that we have spoken about a lot in the past right. The basic tenet of agile development is creating a safe and supportive environment for all and trusting them, that is everyone on the team to do to get the job done. So this translates into recognizing that people are different people have different lived experiences, they have come with different talents they come with different abilities, and we need to give this respectful space for everyone. Now how is this different from diversity equity and inclusion. Not much diversity, equity and inclusion which I'm going to use DEI now going forward is about creating a respectful and safe space, it is about bringing your authentic self to work. It is about respecting differences. And so, you know, over the many years in my experience at Portworx, I have, you know, spoken often about this as a global company, you know, and as an organization that cares deeply about about the work that we do in this space. Right. And, and, and also, you know, in connection with the responsible tech. And we are spread across 17, you know, countries. We have about 46 plus offices. And so diversity is very inbuilt into the system itself and so you would see different viewpoints different cultural nuances. And, and that has made us look at DEI in a very, very different, different way. Now here I'm going to talk a little bit about, you know, let's say the parallels of, of DEI and, and sorry, can you see my screen. Yes, Tina, you can. Okay, okay, let me just. But it's frozen to the first. Okay, okay. Okay. So we're going to talk a little bit around the parallels between agile and DEI. You know, it's people oriented, everyone's opinion counts. And when you look at DEI, the most important thing is that we need to acknowledge that not everyone starts at the same place. They're all different, they've had different lived experiences. And our intent is to create a workplace that is equitable for all. Right. The other parallel I'd like to draw is about collaboration and collective ownership, a very, very key tenet of agile. And one of the things I often talk about in the DEI space is that it cannot be owned by the leadership. It cannot be owned by an employee resource group that cares deeply about LGBTQI in the workplace. DEI is about collective ownership. And I, and I talk about how when we run programs in the DEI space, it's very, very critical that ownership is collective. And I can share some examples about that later on. The other thing, you know, we, we do see an agile and we, and we have thought leaders talking about it is, is the whole adaptive nature of agile, right. Agile is not predictive. So we know that, that, you know, client needs constantly are changing, the environment is changing. And hence, you know, you need to be adaptive to change. Ditto for DEI, you constantly have different people changing your priorities of the areas you want to focus on DEI changes. You are, you cannot have a textbook of rules that you stick to when it comes to policies, benefits and practices. And sometimes you will need to look at adapting based on the needs of your employees. And that is also something that I see a very strong in connection with agile is also value centric. I mean, we've seen so many values. I was just reading, you know, this book, which is extreme programming explained by Kent Beck. And I was looking through, you know, the, just reading through and refreshing my memory on, you know, on, on some of the values, the principles. And that's not too different from from DEI, right. It is about collective ownership. It is about values of respecting about communication about collaboration about bringing your authentic self to work. It's about courage. It's about integrity and not too different from some of the things that we see. And finally, one other parallel that I see, and of course, there should be a lot more parlance, which is around embracing flexibility. You need to, and that is something that we do very well in agile, but in DEI also it's important to understand the unique needs of people and provide the right support. Right. So let's talk a little bit about the impact that COVID has had on us and, and, and, and pre, you know, COVID and post COVID and how teams were impacted, right. Specifically, in the case of our organization, as in the case of most other organization, the vibrancy of the workplace coming together, working on the dining table story was retrospectives having conversation with clients. Your watercolor conversations, your debates, your arguments, all of this came to a sudden standstill with, with COVID, right. Being a global company that has been pioneers in the distributed agile space, we're not, you know, being working remotely, working from anywhere, working from the client side, working from different locations as distributed themes was not new to us. But even then, that it was a struggle, a struggle because we were not meeting our colleagues, a struggle because there was certain rituals, certain practices that they used to do face to face, that we could, you know, no longer do. And, and that itself was, was a huge challenge for us. Of course, like all of us have experienced teams that work post COVID, it is about, you know, remote fairing, it is about conversations remotely, it is about people practices remotely. It is about just your infrastructure setup that needs to be done right because setting up your infrastructure for remote work has been challenging, but with it came a lot of other nuances right. Things like kids studying from home. It is about the anxiety that came with with COVID. It is about, you know, the lack of support that you get from house health and everything else that that was there prior to COVID that we didn't have post COVID. It is about mental health, you know, and well being it is about taking care of your loved ones if you were if you had people who are sick at COVID plus managing your work right and and and these were things that that, you know, that, you know, we, we sort of realize started realizing at ThoughtWorks as well. This is a study by Buffer and Angelist and, you know, one of the things that they talk about is the biggest struggle with working remotely was collaboration and communication. It's also about relationships, right, certain connects that you build with your team. The ability not to not to unplug right it's very difficult and I constantly face that challenge myself is not able to unplug not able to get up and do something that is outside of work through the day and there's a very, very, very thin line between work-life balance, right, and, and it's totally blurred today. There are distractions at home. There are different time zones that we need to work with you know, North America has moved into daylight savings and how does that impact you if you want to have some some code working together with your team in North America. How do you stay motivated? How do you take a break? How do you find, you know, the right infrastructure and Wi-Fi and all of that? Right. So these were challenges that's not unique to any particular organization. I think most of us face this. And the most critical thing I think that is often, you know, we need to remind ourselves is inclusive practices go in a long way in bringing the culture of belonging accountability and shared purpose. And especially during times as challenging as the pandemic where we were working from home and managing all of these other priorities and challenges is this reminder that if we are not inclusive, if we do not think of equitable practices, if we do not realize that that everyone's lives and lived experiences are different than our, you know, then the whole point is lost around inclusivity. So what is the inclusive team social contract, right? And I'm going to jump into this a little bit with a little bit of context as well. So the impact of the pandemic and our ways of working was something I was, we were as a team, as a DEI team, as a leadership team here for constantly looking at. And sometimes a mid-pandemic we ran something called a wellness and COVID pulse check survey. And this was an internal survey that we ran with our thought workers on what is it that we can do to support them better? What are some of the challenges that they are facing? So I'm going to briefly talk about what were the findings of the survey, right? So it was very clear lack of work-life balance, asynchronous communication, extended screen time, prolonged pairing, personal challenges, kids working from home, you know, studying from home, your partners and other members in your family also working from home. Sometimes you live in spaces that are small, you may not have the privilege of having an exclusive room to yourself. But some of the issues that people were grappling with. And of course, there are underrepresented groups as well, like the LGBTQIA community for them, their home is not the most safest place. Then how do you ensure that you create, you know, you as an organization support your employees in building the safe space, right? And then of course, the other aspect like mental health and well-being, right? Those that are needed, the support that's needed for your organization. We also realized that we were onboarding a huge number of new employees who have never experienced our workplace face-to-face, right? So there was the whole remote onboarding training and then getting onboarded onto a new project slash team without having met your team at all even once. And so these things made us think about, okay, what is it that we need to do as an organization? So the DEI team in ThoughtWorks India came together along with a set of consultants and a very diverse group of consultants within ThoughtWorks to, you know, to design what we call the inclusive teams starter kit. Now, the starter kit had a lot of other things in it, but what I'm going to focus on is the inclusive team social contract. Now, having a social contract as a team is something that's not new. Many agile teams have it, you know, best practices around team norms, around communication, collaboration, all of that is not new. But we felt that we need to add the DEI nuance and lens to this, right? So this is a facilitated exercise and that core group became the group that facilitated this exercise and addresses challenge faced by remote teams to come up with a set of inclusive social norms and practices. Now, it also encourages teams to relook at the existing practices. Of course, you would have your own set of, you know, practices and social norms, but how do you relook at it in the context of where you are today? Now, I have to say that, you know, many of us have gone back to office, many of us have working in hybrid models today, but this social contract still holds good. It is very, very, very important to relook at your ways of working as a team on a periodic basis because you constantly have new people joining the team. Your, you know, your project context is different. And so this is a very, very adaptive exercise that we recommend all teams, you know, invest time in doing. And I can share some experiences as well as part of this. What I also want to call out is that, you know, stand-ups, huddles, retrospectives is not something that's only focused on technical, you know, projects and teams at ThoughtWorks. But I do it with my team in DEI, we have the recruitment team, we have the marketing team, we have a lot of other operational teams also follow a lot of the best practices that is very, very common to agile teams as well. So what is this exercise, right? This exercise focuses on four key areas. One is about looking at schedules and meetings. What are some of the best practices that we have? How do we ensure there are personal boundaries that are kept in mind? And the context, individual context of certain people, right? One of the things we've noticed is that there are people who are primary caregivers within your team, which means that sometimes they will need to have a better, you know, better detailed time lines around, okay, I can't work during this time. I can't take client calls during this time, but I need to be included in these things because this is critical for me and for the project team I'm contributing to. So how do you ensure you set those boundaries, right? The second one is around building a culture of trust, right? And this is so, so critical for teams because trust is the very fundamental foundation that will allow team members, especially new team members, especially those who onboarded newly into the organization itself to be able to open up and share, right? How do you support each other? How do you understand individual context? How do you create a safe space for people to even talk about some of the challenges that they may be going through? How do you build empathy? How do you cultivate each other when you're doing this either remotely or in a hybrid model? So that is another area. Communication and practices is another key area which is around, you know, what are the tools that you use? How inclusive are those tools? Are those tools something that everyone is comfortable using? What are some of the patterns and best practices that you would like? How are you learning from other teams and other members? And finally, the fourth one is around norms of engagement, right? Engagement doesn't have to be only work related. How do you engage with each other outside of work, right? How do you engage with each other when you're one on one? If you're a project manager and you have to sync up with a developer or with a business analyst, what, how respectful are you, right? Irrespective of whether you are a grad on the team or whether you are a senior technologist on the team, how do you ensure that your interactions are respectful, right? And then how do you have fun as a team, right? I'm sure, you know, we still are close to 90% in remote mode. Very few people are meeting in office and it's mostly for, you know, those face-to-face quarterly meetings and very critical meetings. And it's very important to find ways to connect as a team to have fun, to have non-work conversations. So how are you able to do that? Also, norms of engagement will include things like how do you give feedback? How do you're running, you know, your performance reviews? How are you connecting with those others, right? Outside of your team? Things like that. So this is a very, very simple, facilitated exercise and if I have some time I'll share my screen and you'll run out through the mural board as well later on. But basically we created two templates. One was, you know, a template which was on a mural board. We had video, you know, instructions for the team around how do you run this exercise. And we did the same for in a PPT template, you know, or a presentation template that also had instructions on video. And it basically had, you know, had certain norms and certain practices that we followed. So for example, if a team wants to run this exercise, the point of contact for that team will reach out to a shared email ID. And then people from that group will sign up to facilitate this exercise for the team. There's a lot of context of the team that's needed for a facilitator to run the program. So it's a very, very tight partnership between the facilitator and the point of contact. Most times it's a project manager, tech lead who are collaborating with the facilitator on this. Key issues are discussed, key challenges are discussed and the entire exercise and the flow of the exercise is shared with the team POC, the point of contact. And some key aspects are also covered because this exercise cannot address everything. Right. So, so those are some of the things that are shared very, very openly. So the exercise is very simple, you have, you know, four of these dimensions and on a mural board, people are asked to, you know, to participate and sharing. And once you've shared the context on what this exercise is, you do a safety check. A safety check is very, very important for that people participate. Sometimes depending on the team and the social relationships and the connections between the team, we ask, you know, the point of the POC to check if they would like to do the safety check separately before we actually facilitate this exercise. And sometimes, you know, we do it as part of the exercise itself. So, once the safety check is done, and a context is set that that irrespective of who you are, this is a respectful space. And all of your inputs will be taken into consideration. Then we start the exercise we go one by one, which is around, you know, for example, we go with, let me go back with starting the meeting right so we take schedule and meetings, we have the stickies on the mural. And we ask everyone to participate and answer some of these simple questions, which is what will be your schedules as a team, as a team be like, what is it that you want to stop doing? What is it that you want to keep doing? And what is it that you want to start doing? And so some of the questions will be things like overlapping hours. How will you respect personal boundaries? Sometimes people do share scenarios, right? Saying, hey, this happened to me at this particular point of time, and this was very, very challenging. Or someone would share, you know, my spouse had COVID and or, you know, one of my family members had COVID. And during that time, I would have wanted this type of support. And so all of this is shared in stickies. And, and then you move the same to point two, which is around building a culture of stress on how you would support each other, how you will create an environment that promotes safety. What team practices and practices already support this culture and what is it that that does not and what is it that you want to change. And again, you do it in the same way, which is stop doing, keep doing and start doing. And you follow the similar thing were for communication practices and for norms of engagement. I'm going to quickly look at the time. And, and once you collect all of these inputs, you work on synthesizing this along with the POC. And sometimes members of the team also pitch in to synthesize this. Many a times, depending on the size of the team, depending on how large the team is or, or how small the team is synthesizing sometimes continues beyond, you know, whatever the 90 minute that you've allocated for this. But if you're able to synthesize, you know, during the during the call itself, then then it's good because the members of the team are participating right. The core team, which is, you know, the facilitators and the POCs will take time synthesizing the data in detail, and will be communicating the outputs of the synthesized, you know, inputs received via a PPT or any other preferred medium. The document in the exercises get inputs from the team, and then the team finally decides on what what their social contractors. So it is after synthesizing the team goes through the synthesized inputs and then decides on what is their final team social contract. And they ensure and one of the things that we asked POCs to do is to ensure that this is in a visible place and is visited on a periodic basis. We also encourage rerunning of this exercise as there are projects related changes or they could be people related changes you're growing your team you have new members joining in. It's about time you rerun this exercise right and sometimes you may not need an external facilitator because you created the space to run this exercise yourself and your POC and your teams within feel comfortable team members within a couple of them may feel comfortable running this exercise themselves. The critical thing about this is that even prior to your starting the team social contract exercise and post that you will need to communicate your key stakeholders and your clients that one you're running this exercise. It will impact the ways of working of the team to a large extent, and then, or to some extent, and and you will need to partner with them to see what you can do immediately. What you can sort of weave in into into your your team on a periodic basis right because you can't really when you come up with with new ways of working you will have to keep the client context and you will have to keep the stakeholder context in mind as well. And all of the changes can't be implemented all at once. But what you do give is a vision of what needs to change. And, and of course each team has its new has its nuances right like sometimes it may be a distributed team within India sometimes it was a distributed team in with another, you know, with two different countries time zone differences are there. You know, sometimes the project and the delivery ownership is with with your organization sometimes the team members are not only your, your organization team members but also client developers and tech folks as well. So, then in that context how do you ensure that you are doing this exercise either jointly or you encourage them to do the exercise separately, and you do the exercise separately. So these are nuances that may need to you need to be adaptive about and and that is something that you will need to look at right so partnering with project managers and team leads on understanding the nuances of the project is very very critical for the facilitators. And then also the synthesizing of the social contract will need to be in partnership with the stakeholders, because then it, you know they can communicate this effectively with the client along with with your POC. Right. Some facilitator guidelines be prepped with details on how to run the session have time limits for each section. Sometimes you know we've run this distributed we've run this between India and and and you know and a team in in not in global south or North America or Brazil. You had to keep so many other nuances in mind, and I'll talk about some of that in our experience report and our learning outcomes safety check is very, very important. It's very, very important for facilitators to not let their own biases overcome the group discussion. So one of the things that we constantly ask facilitators to do is, please, please, please ensure stickies go up without any of your opinions, any of your viewpoints shared. That is the least important thing because we need people to participate, and our own biases should not come in the way. Be aware of existing practices in the project right for example, hey X number of hours are spent in team meetings is important because then you will be able to understand hey is that is so many hours really needed and ask the right questions when you are facilitating. And the, and of course the dimensions of the social contract can be beyond the four dimensions we spoke about so having a couple of stickies for other dimensions that are not covered in these four areas also is something that you may want to consider. Okay. So like I said at the beginning. This is a social contract. It doesn't have to be exclusively for a particular type of team teams working from home anywhere co located teams blended model of work from home anywhere working from the office working from the client location. Distributed teams operation teams, anybody can run this social contract exercise. In fact, you know there is a very detailed video that's there on YouTube and I will be sharing that. So this is where our thought worker is sharing how to run this exercise on on mural. And, and it's very very helpful because irrespective of, of, you know your team nuances or your team working styles or the working model. You can still run this exercise. And one thing that Sunita who's, you know, heads of Bangalore office, Sunita Murli Darren has been a thought worker for many many years now started as a business analyst but now heads are our office in in Bangalore she's a general manager there. She's one of the one of the, you know, most, you know, sought after facilitators for for this exercise. And her, you know, she shares her particular experiences and, and, you know, and and views around around the whole exercise. She really highlights how it's important to formalize sustainable processes that enhance workplace inclusivity while operating as a high performance team. So the exercise really helped the team align at a structure that worked well for them. And I was just talking to Sunita yesterday about about, you know, the impact that that the exercise itself had on teams, and, and, and she was sharing how you know it has been positive how teams have gone away and being able to collectively own on that social contract and the outcomes of that social contract. So I thought that was important to share. Here Manoj, you know, was one of the first few, you know, you know, projects that we ran this exercise with and, and are there the streams of work for this project was across geographies so they had many new folks joining in, and most people hadn't met face to face. So the exercise built helped build a common agreement and this was, again, when, you know, we were at the, at the midst of the, you know, the pandemic. And, and so there were so many nuances that we had to keep in mind and the personal context and, and one of the things that, you know, Manoj does talk about is how intuitive the framework is, and how you can actually, you know, be able to mold it, according to the needs of your team to start with. So some of the learnings from us running this exercise for this distributed team was do not miss. Sorry, I think I moved on to. Yeah. So, one of the key learnings and experiences has been tangible improvements in the team outlook and collaboration balancing personal and work life because that was very, very critical. And that was one of the key things that came out because that was the time and people were in the midst of the pandemic so you did not have house help you had a lot of anxiety you had a lot of pressures and getting new used to this new way of working. You know, feeling positive and getting, you know, people to participate in the decision making, I think was very, very critical. And ideally running this exercise at the start of a project really helps but that shouldn't stop you from running the project, running the exercise other other times as well. And then improving key stakeholder and clients, involving key stakeholders and clients early on will help to get wider acceptance and alignment. I have to say again and stress out that whatever you decide as a social contract there could be some things that you can implement. You know, early on, but there are some things that will need to be attributed that you will need to sort of collaborate with your client and your team stakeholders to be able to sort of include. Right. And we spoke about this project this project was, you know, distributed and one of the things that they did miss when they started off the team social contract was this was the safety check and so sort of be here points out why it is very very important to have, have a safety check at the start of the exercise, having champions within the team to synthesize data and to drive it because there is a lot of collective ownership. It's very, very important, especially when you're a distributed team to to be conscious of visual cues, especially for the facilitators and the point of contact for the for the thing. Tonality, who's not participating, who are the louder voices that are being heard, all of that, especially also if you have non-Indian speaking participants, if you have people with disability to ensure you have closed captioning to ensure you are being inclusive. If you want to get inputs ahead in time. So understanding the nuances of diversity is also very important. Consider ongoing communication and revisiting the exercise and being adaptive and facilitators clear understanding to address team needs is also very, very important. But as always, whether it is agile or whether it's diversity, equity and inclusion, you need to have an holistic approach to have you look at it. And you need to be adaptive to changes in our organization. We look at, of course, primarily these four areas of focus, but we also look beyond this. There's a whole aspect around finding and nurturing diverse talent. There's a huge focus on gender diversity in tech. And so everything that but of course there are focused beyond that as well. Each region across the 17 regions has a has an additional area of focus. It could be people of color, it could be the LGBTQIA, it could be, you know, race, it could be ethnicity. It could be persons with disability. So each region has a secondary or an additional area of focus that they invest in. What is your employer brand saying? What are the inclusive hiring practices that you have is very, very critical, creating a space that's inclusive and people feel a sense of belonging and are able to bring the authentic selves to work is very, very important. Having affinity groups and communities. Having inclusion embedded into your onboarding practices. Again, advancement and opportunities is about, you know, being able to provide the right equal opportunities, advancement opportunities and also realizing it's not a level playing field, and hence you will need to have initiatives to support underrepresented groups and communities is also important. Retention and people policies important. Sometimes we do need structure, we need, and we definitely need policies and benefits. And we need to also study metrics to see who is staying, who's leaving, why are people leaving. All of that to be able to have a lot more inclusion and equity within the organization. I hope I am on time. Farul, how are we with time? Good with the time Tina, and thank you for sharing all your experiences and especially the intersection that you spoke about at the beginning about agility and DEI. We have questions from the audience. So I will open you now for the Q&A. So first question that we have, I think it's more like a statement. So it's an anonymous attendee. So it has been seen that the organizations are having many people who are now working from home, far away from their workplace, and working from home for a lot of people has been more helpful in saving time and traveling and spending time with the family so that creates a different environment. So that was the first question. So that was a statement but nevertheless. So the second question we have from Rajat Talvash who said that what language and tone to use with stakeholders to convince them about the value of such exercises that you shared with us. So it's a responsive language and tone. And that's, you know, how can you think of it but also sharing. You can be totally anonymous about this but you can share some of the experiences and some of the challenges people share with you as a point of contact if you're having the conversation with your stakeholders and your clients but also talking about how this entire exercise will benefit the teams. And that is something that I think is critical. I had, you know, some time back shared an article on this but that's how you do this. And this is also about trust. This is about, you know, talking about how this is going to impact your business, the outcomes of your project positively and then being able to take those outcomes back and say, hey, this worked. These are some of the things that work. And sorry, these things didn't work for this particular reason. But it is the tone of inclusion and just on your previous point Parul, you know, in ThoughtWorks we have about 2000 plus employees and we are working from 300 plus locations across India even today. So yes, we are working from anywhere. Thank you, Tina. So our next question is that how are these exercises different from team level agreements. So we also have in agile team level agreements that we talk about. True. Yeah. So one of the things that we realized was how do we run this exercise, right? And these four particular areas of focus which is around building a culture of trust and and also certain things like being able to, you know, bring the team together, have an external facilitator, looking at the current lived experiences and context of the team and being able to run this. Like I said, a team social contract is something that we have seen a lot of teams have and a team level agreement, but looking at it with the sense with the lens of DEI, right, is very, very critical. And, and again, right, you need to keep the nuances in mind, you know, in India, although I wouldn't say it is and I'm not being generic here so don't, don't, you know, should be down for this but it is true that the women is still the primary caregiver in most families. And so the context, the ability to participate in three client conversations, keeping the nuances of this new context of hybrid remote work models, right, the responsibilities of managing the home, being the primary caregiver, managing the thing. I'm not saying, you know, men aren't contributing, your spouses aren't contributing, your partners are not contributing. I'm just saying that, generically, it's women who take on more of these responsibilities. So how do you ensure equal opportunity, how this is tied to advancement and opportunities going forward, right, we're doing performance reviews remotely. We are introducing new policies keeping the new context in mind. So how do you ensure that diversity, equity and inclusion lenses used I think is what, what's nuanced about this entire exercise. Thank you Tina, for, you know, sharing your perspective our next question is from Rajat again, and he's asking like can you tell us more about how to use the stickies and run the whole exercise. I think for that you had mentioned that there is. Yes, yes, there is a video that I will share and need to look for it right now I will do that while you move on to your next question. Yes, and we have a similar question from another person so that will also answer that question. We have two similar questions from Bhavan Shah and Rajat Talwar. I'm talking about if we have some examples of the outcomes for customers, the inclusive team social contract, especially when it's service provider and customers working closely. So what are our success measures for such exercises and the outcomes for customers. What comes for the team, especially and it again like you know if it is a distributed team if you have a team which also has technical folks from your client side as well. Then you are introducing these ways of working and best practices not only for yourself, you are also introducing it for your team and it is a shared, you know, it is a shared contract. You would see some you would see better collaboration you would see better people connect you would see better trust that happens. And I'm again saying right, these are some of the best practices that ideally you should see come out of this of this exercise. And you would also see that is when you're planning for your next attrition or when you're planning for, you know, your next stream of work. Some of these nuances are sort of inbuilt into into into your conversations already. And, and so those are things that you would technically see. But again, it's so nuanced depending on the context of your team and your project and your client. Again, you know, using the fundamentals of and the values of the AI and agile to to to break this conversation and and be able to to, you know, sell it, sometimes you will need to sell it to your clients. I think it becomes very, very critical. Alright, we have, I think we are running out of time. So some of the questions guys that we have, we can get them answered if you can join the hangout section so we have a hangout section on our website where Tina will be available on the table. So the team can go there and ask their questions. Also, request everybody to give their feedback on the live stream section. So you can head out there as well. And so thank you. Thank you so much, Tina, for your time and sharing your experience. And for everyone else, we also have the YouTube link, which everybody was asking for put in there by Tina. Thanks, everyone. Thank you, Tina. As I close, there is one person who spoke about it, which I want to share with you as a Q&A. So it's from an anonymous attendee who said that my organization doesn't follow inclusive practices and I'm part of a group that is interested. So I think it's a great takeaway for the person to have and create maybe start that inclusive culture in their own organization. Yeah, please and please do reach out to me on LinkedIn, Tina Vinod from ThoughtWorks. So look me up and any help you need and I often talk to organizations, I often talk to people who are interested in DEI and seeing how they can integrate DEI into their teams, their organizations, be able to sell some of this and to be able to include leadership in that vision and thinking. So happy to support you through that because this is a personal priority for me as well. We do need inclusive and equitable workplaces. Thank you so much, Tina. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everyone. Bye-bye.