 Hey everybody, welcome to a new show called Cloud Dev Clarity. I'm Andrew Connell and I'm excited to share this with you. In this first episode, we're going to do a little bit of introduction on what you can find with this show. But before I get too deep into this, I want to bring in my trusty co-host. I'm not nearly skilled to do this on my own. So I want to bring in and introduce to you, Julie Turner. Julie, how are you doing? Hey, great. Thank you, Andrew. Welcome. This is going to be, yeah, welcome. So good. So good. To you, to me, hopefully everybody else that's watching, of course, nobody's watching right now, except for the two of us. Not yet. Not yet. So what Julie and I wanted to do is we wanted to explain in this first episode just cards on the table. This is being pre-recorded before we launched this. We're recording a couple of things like this first episode is what is this Cloud Dev Clarity thing? What is this show kind of explaining what it is? We'll have another episode or two where Julie and I introduce ourselves in case you're not familiar with the two of us. Yeah, give you some background, right? Yeah, give us a little bit of a bit. It allows us to give you some background on who we are and without you having to go hunt and pack like, you know, where are they on GitHub or where are they on Twitter? Where are they on Facebook or all those different places? But in this episode, we want to just briefly kind of talk about what the hell is this thing that we were doing and really answer three questions. What is it? Why is it? And well, when kind of when we started doing this and when you can expect to see stuff. So before I get too deep into this, if you want to get in touch with us, if you want to contact us about the show, if you got any questions, if you got any feedback, if you got any topic ideas, once we get into this and we kind of explain it, best way to reach us is either using that or using, see, this is June, it's the first time we're doing it. Or you can use Julie, let me put my hands in Julie's screen. I can't do that, they're already here. My hands got cold. See, I said no pointing, no pointing, this is tricky. Yeah, exactly. You can find us on our Twitter handles that are right here below us. Exactly. That was perfect. Your hand please, that was perfect. So mine is like, nope, wrong side, right there. I'll just see if I can hold mine up like this. Anyway, I'm getting a little goofy here. We're going to have fun with this. It's going to be totally casual. Not going to be overly produced or produced at all. Yeah, it's not produced at all, not even. Yeah. So what Julie and I wanted to do is we wanted to kind of just explain why we're doing this. And first, let's explain what this is and then we'll explain kind of why we're doing it. Or do you think, what do you think? We think we should do the other way around. No, let's just go back and sort of say how this came about. So effectively, you and I are both on the Microsoft 365 community team. They're also known as the PNP team. And we were in a conversation with some of our colleagues. We were really talking about the fact that there's nothing, we were lamenting that we were not seeing as much heavy duty coding coverage in talks and presentations from the Microsoft world. It was right after build happened and it was kind of like disappointing that we weren't seeing really heavy duty dev topics. And we were kind of like, hey, we should really start talking about these heavy duty dev topics a little bit more because I think people are missing out. There's so much talk about the how do I do devy things without being a dev? And I think the real devs in the world are sort of losing out on content that's really directed at people who really embrace development deeply and want to keep learning all the time, which if you're a good developer, that's what you want, right? You want to constantly learn and learn from your colleagues, so. Yeah, and I think that the other part of this too, the other part of our conversation and when we were talking about this that day or at least for me it was, was that most of these kinds of things are presentations. They're one way. They're not conversations. And when you speak and when it's just one person presenting it or just two people presenting it, it's their opinion, but it's not so much of a give and take and kind of a dialogue with it. And so I think that to me, one of the reasons that I like to do this or that I want to do this, I didn't want to do, I didn't want to do and have another like Microsoft run call. And there's nothing wrong with all these community calls that Microsoft does. Yep. You know, they're great, they serve a good purpose where they talk about updates. So what's going on, the patterns of practices thing, pattern practices group, they're also where they're doing showing demos from the community. That's not what you and I are going to try and do here. We're not going to give updates on this. We have a list of, well, frankly, we have quite a backlog before we even recorded the first few minutes of our first show of topics that we want to dive into. But I think a lot of it was that, and this will kind of explain a little bit of like, you know, what this is, is that you and I wanted to, you and I really get to, we really enjoy getting together and talking about this kind of stuff and about these topics, but also about things where we also can have very different perspectives and opinions on it. Yeah. But I like to think that we both respect each other's, even if we disagree, we both very, we respect each other's opinions on it. 100%. I love working with you. No, I don't get a chance to work with you. I love working with you and interacting with you on this stuff because of your take on this, on these topics, because of your experiences as a developer, or I know, I'm going to slip and say it a few times, but I hate the moniker pro developer. Yeah, I've been trying not to say it too for this similar reason, yeah. With all the stuff with like citizen developer or fusion developer or low code, no code stuff, I feel like when I start saying pro developer and you and I talked about this, it feels like I'm being defensive. And I'm not being defensive because I don't feel like the different kinds of developers are threatening. It's just more that like, I want to make sure that we're talking about, I'm talking to an audience that's going to be typically traditionally opening up Visual Studio or opening up Visual Studio Code or writing C-Sharp or JavaScript or TypeScript or Go and not using a designer or a web interface to go through and to build out workflows and stuff. And I don't expect to. I don't expect to, right, yeah. And I think that's the key here, right? These are the audience that we're hoping to address are those who want to write braces. Code with braces is what we do. So yeah, absolutely, that's the goal. And it's to have that conversation because we come at this from a different perspective and we have experiences with different aspects of this technology. So I love talking to you when I can be like, hey, I started using XYZ. I know you've been using that for a while. What's your take on this? Is that the way you would do it? Because that's interesting, right? And I learned something every single time we have one of those conversations. Yeah, I mean, if you're the kind of person that does not like roll your eyes or be like, oh my God, again, I'm hearing this being about when there's code involved, when there's JSON involved, when there's a YAML file involved, where there's a compiler involved or where there's a version number that's involved and you're having to deal with all those kinds of things and like the CLI. If you roll your eyes at that stuff, we're probably not the right audience for you. No, we're just fine. There's plenty of places for that. But anyway, yeah, that's. So we looked at this and I thought that you and I had kind of a sidebar conversation with it in that call with Microsoft or with some Microsoft people. And it was really like, look, I really think there needs to be something by the community. And I really think it needs to be something that is not driven by a Microsoft and Amazon or Google that this is just a, no, these are just developers that are out there. And I don't want it to be, I don't want to be hamstrung with what some company tells us that we have to do. So that's kind of how this came about. We've started talking about the what. The when is right now, like you said earlier, we have a backlog of a bunch of topics. What we think we want to do, right, is maybe one a month, but we're really open. This is brand new. This is episode one. We're going to see how it goes. We're hoping that if people are up there are watching and liking what we're delivering that they can give us feedback and, hey, who knows what will change? But primarily, I think we're going to start off once a month and they're going to be these, you and me having a conversation about a particular topic. Maybe that will be more. Maybe we'll start doing some interviews. Maybe we'll have some guests. I don't even know. Maybe there'll be a hot piece of news that gets released that's really interesting and it bears talking about like a new feature on GitHub or a new Azure service or whatever. There will be bitch-fests, I suspect. That's one thing you and I do a decent job of. We can complain quite well. We complain like no other. I hope we do talk a little bit about architectural and design patterns. That's something that I've been re-embracing recently that I lament that I feel like, and maybe this is wrong, but I feel like I'm getting a vibe that there's a lot of more junior people that are coming up through the development ranks that aren't really learning these patterns the way we sort of did back in the day, back in Monday. Yeah, well, I think that with the whole thing with design patterns, I think that a lot of that comes more from academia and from your experience. If you go to school for a degree in software development or software engineering, that those things are discussed about the different sorting options that you have. And so it's a little more familiar to people like someone says Singleton or someone says Observer or Factory or stuff like that. They're cashing corollaries. Yeah, people understand what that stuff is. Certain people understand what that stuff is, but then there's a lot of people, for me as well, that I didn't go to school for this stuff and I'm very much self-taught for around all the software development stuff that I've done for the most part. I didn't go to school for, I switched my major at the very end of my college career and that's where I started going more in this direction. But for the majority, I would say I was self-taught. And I think that the majority of the people who are self-taught and they do get into this or if you're coming from an IT pro background and you're going into development, some of those topics aren't really, like design patterns aren't as, it's not something that you didn't grow up with that. And so that's gonna be a little more foreign, but. Yeah, and I think that's okay, don't get me wrong. It's just that I think if you're really into this and you're really into being a developer, like kind of understanding those things and learning about them isn't the worst thing in the world. So I kind of hope we do dabble in that topic as we go forward. I totally think we will. I mean, I totally, I can think of a couple of things that we're gonna, that we'll focus on with it. But I mean, yeah, I wanna reiterate a couple of things. Like just to, right now what our expectation is or what our current plan is, and it's all subject to change. And really it's something to change with how we feel about this stuff, but also subject to change on if we get, start getting feedback and it's, people want us to go in the direction we wanna go in. I mean, but there are, there are directions I know we don't wanna go in. So someone calls it, you know, I said calls them, but if someone starts giving us feedback, I say, would you, you know, compare and contrast using this different kind of a power-up or this power-up? And I'm like, no. No. And the reason why is because that's not my wheelhouse. I can't, I can't do that. Yeah. So, but these are mostly gonna be, I would expect them to be mostly Julia and myself talking to each other. And we may, right now, these are prerecorded. I would love it if we could get to the point where these are like live things where other people can join in and watch and be interactive with like an audience. So think about like a conference, a session at a conference and then you raise your hand, drop your question and then we can answer them. We have a cool, the tool we're using for this is a cool way for us to show, show your comment at the bottom of the screen. Yeah. But I think that one of the things that's cool. I can see us getting there, but let's just see where it goes, right? And maybe nobody's interested in that and we'll just do it this way. So who knows? Ooh. He's playing. We have cool little toys like this. Yeah. We have to look at the logos on stuff the whole time, but so that's one. And like Julie said too, maybe we bring somebody on for an interview. Maybe we bring a third person in to have a conversation with us. And it's not, and it's just ends up being like we're all, instead of us interviewing them, it's just more or less like another panelist, I guess is the way to say it. Yeah, I think that's a really great way to say it. We're gonna, we're sort of treating it as a panel versus an interview. Yeah. And it's, and so I guess the other thing is, is that that's kind of like the format of what we're doing. That's kind of the, and we've explained a little bit of the why of what we're doing as well. And then the win, like Julie said, our current target is be conservative and say we're gonna do one of these a month. This may turn into being like once a week, or may just turn into being like once every two weeks and maybe very arbitrary when things come out. We may have seen like a release that we wanna talk about that be focused on it. But I think the other thing that we do wanna, that we do wanna focus on or that we do wanna, I do wanna cover in this episode is like the topics. So what, when we say cloud dev clarity, you know, what can you expect? If you come into this going, hey, I'm a, you know, I'm all into, what is it like using stuff like crypto and my hardware wallet. And it's like, no, that's not what this is. Or I'm into embedded devices. No, no, no. Yeah. This is, Julie and I primarily, our background is, or at least our background today where our life is today is, primarily in the space of Microsoft 365 development. So that includes a lot of, mostly SharePoint framework that includes Microsoft Teams-based stuff. I guess in things that are like derivative or that we use to implement those kind of solutions. Well, in Azure Stack, that's a product. So let me be careful about that. But the products and features of the Azure environment. So all of that is, is definitely part of our wheelhouse because we have to use that to do some of the extensibility projects. So that, yeah. I mean, primarily Microsoft tech is where we're going to come from it. Yeah. I mean, we're both, I would say we're both primary, you correct me if I'm wrong, I would say we're both primarily today, Microsoft 365 developers. Yep. And we leverage Azure to implement stuff that we, that we're needed. Right. Yeah, 100%. And I would, I would also throw in there, let's throw a couple of other terms in there. We're web developers. We're cloud native. Yeah. We are... As much as I want to end. Yeah. The technologies that we focus on are, well, let you go first. What technologies do you focus on? Yeah. I mean, well, I span across the line, right? But, you know, Node.js and JavaScript and TypeScript and, you know, more HTML and CSS than I probably want to. Although I have colleagues for that. C-Sharp, a lot of C-Sharp. So then IE.net, right? And, you know, some server types, like I can still do pretty well at SQL server and those kinds of things for writing SQL statements and stuff like that. But that's, that's sort of data technology. You know, so that kind of stuff. I mean, that's my bread and butter. That's my day in the day out. Yeah. And so, and I guess for me, it's I'm, we'll do more of like the intro of who we are. And I'm sure we'll cover more of this as well, but being the first episode. And if that, those videos are going to go live at the same time that we go live with this one. And so we will put links to like my bio, if you look at the top of the screen or in the description under this video, there will be, my bio would be in the, video for my bio will be in there. Same, we'll have a video in there for Julie as well, for Julie's bio as well. So that if you want to learn more about, if you're not familiar with who we are, then that's a great way to go through and kind of learn more about who we are. But my answer to like the answer that Julie just gave is that I would say I'm primarily using, I'm primarily a TypeScript person, TypeScript JavaScript. I do that everywhere I possibly can and where it's supported. So client side, server side via node. When it comes to compiled stuff, traditionally I got a history with.net. I really don't like.net right now. I really try to avoid it. And I really want to get my feet under me more with Go and with, well really with Go and then I got a passion with to learn Python, but Go is the one I really want to focus on. I know that there's so much stuff is still, like when it's server side, it's still Microsoft is still.net. I just, I really dislike where it's gone lately. It's just my, it's just my opinion. So it's not, it's my take. I'm so old school. I end up falling back into C-sharp every time I write server-based stuff just because, like I just don't even think about it. Like it's just where I go. And yeah, so I hear you. My goal right now is to sort of try to step away from frameworks, like client side dev. Oh yeah, that's a good, yeah. So I was going to say when it's client side, I'm a React person, formerly an Angular person, but you are trying to go like. As was I, I was React and then I was, well, I was Angular first and then React. And now I'm trying to drop React as well and move away to web component style. That's a little tricky of an area. So I'll acknowledge that it's a tricky statement, but I'll also use it. I'm trying to go to pure web component development. So it's releasing the framework. It is, it is a topic. Yeah, let's see. So what else do we want to cover here? Oh, why don't we, another thing we can throw out with us is why don't we throw out some of the ideas that we have? I was just going to say, you want to tease some ideas? I think we should tease some ideas. Ooh, let's just start throwing out some words here. Let's throw out the one that has a huge amount of history because of Paul Schaeffler, off. We're going to talk about that. Oh, there you go, off, yeah. We're not going to actually drink margaritas, but I might grab a margarita glass as my water glass for that day. Maybe we should drink margaritas. We are. This might be the only way we could have that conversation. We didn't discuss that ahead of time that we weren't ahead of time. Oh, sorry, my bad. Anyway, yeah, so like talking about like, oh, off, off, off too, I think our first real, like we have ideas about like our, like what we're going to have is like a scope about what we want to have, we want to talk about. And we're going to have things like, what's like the Microsoft 365? What's the developer scope? We're going to talk about SharePoint framework. We're going to talk about Microsoft Teams. We're going to talk about Azure. We're going to talk about DevOps stuff. So like CNCD with, I think we're going to do that. Yeah. Azure DevOps, GitHub Actions, testing, automated testing, infrastructure is code. So doing things with like ARM or Bicep topics on web frameworks, Angular, most probably react mostly, DevTools. Yeah, it's a little bit more even designed side, Fluent UI versus like the library that I help maintain with StephanBauer H2O. So where that whole lay of the land is and why you care, so that web hooks, big passion project for me, different HTTP. Did you say that already? HTTP protocols? No, no, HTTP one and HTTP two. Yeah, HTTP one and HTTP two. Ooh, Azure Functions versus Azure Web Apps versus Web Jobs and what the heck is the difference? Yeah, those things. React, we're going to go with higher order components or like the class style of building things or hooks. Oh right, yeah. You and I have a nice little, you and I are definitely on two different sides there. We are absolutely on two different sides of that topic. Rest versus SDKs, do you want to use an SDK to go in different sides of that platform? Yeah. Like I said, or like Julie said, do you even need a web framework? Do you even need? Right. Do you even need React? Managed identities, Microsoft Teams app development options, like I'll explain why I like to use the term native team Dev versus like using something like SharePoint framework. So that's just, yeah, lots of stuff to talk about here. I'm hoping people will like reach out to us with topic ideas too, because obviously these are ones we came up with, but you know, hey, if people are submitting a bunch and they're like over and over, it's like, hey, I want to hear about this. Well, we can prioritize that, right? Yeah. Oh, totally. I mean, there's, we have a schedule of what we're going to talk about, but I'm not telling anybody. Right. So we... It's a public knowledge. We don't care. Right. We have, so what we will do is we have an idea on this first one. We have an idea of where we were going to create like a little bit of a forum for people to jump in and post questions where we can have like dialogues and stuff like that. Have a couple of different ideas on where we can do that. Right now, if you have feedback for us though on where, you know, topics and stuff, either drop a comment in the notes in the description below this video or use our Twitter handles that you see, like right below us here. The videos right now, they are being published on the, I'm double checking that we actually talked about this. Yes, we did. We're going to publish them on Voitanus and I will also publish them, right, the Voitanus YouTube channel and we will co-publish them on the Sympraxis channel. So that's sort of, which we didn't say, we didn't introduce ourselves from that perspective, but you know, those are our organizations of note. Right, so Voitanus is my, Voitanus is my business and Sympraxis is your business. And so if you, okay, so technically it's my wife. Well, there, oh boy, Meredith. I know who I work for. So, I may talk a big game, but she's home right now, so I'm not right now. Yeah, I know. So yeah, so that's what you'll be able to find this, that's what we'll be able to find the show. We may even go through and lift an MP3 track from this and turn this into a podcast as well. Of course, that's primarily going to be video, but if you are more of a listen type, then you'll be able to tune in and listen to it that way. That's where it is right now. And if you just make sure you follow us on Twitter, whenever we have a new episode, we will most certainly drop it out on Twitter and make it known that that's where you can find it, but you can also subscribe to the Sympraxis YouTube channel or my YouTube channel, the Voitanus YouTube channel. So I think that's Voitanus.tv, we'll redirect you there. And that's where you'll be able to find the episodes. We'll make them very clear, make it easy to find them. Yeah, awesome. Well, I think that's a pretty darn good intro. Hopefully that explained it all for everybody. 24 minutes, I hope so. All right, then. Well, we'll simply see everybody in a few minutes for the next episode. Exactly, tune in because next you're gonna hear, get an intro, you'll find it, learn a little bit more about my great, I think she's over here, co-host Julie Turner. And Andrew Connell. All right, thanks everybody. High five, here we go. There we go, wanna chop my hand off, chop your hand off too. Wait, it's the wrong way, here we go. Cool, thanks a lot everybody. And hope you tune in for a couple more shows. Awesome, thanks. Bye. Bye.