 Hello everyone, you are all welcome for today's panel, which is called the Safe Heaven Freedom Talk about triggers. This panel was started by, arranged by the Malmo City Culture Department, which today we asked to be here, so that today's panel will be chaired by Dr. Juan Esteve. So from now I will pass it to you. This stage is yours. Thank you very much and thank you to both the museum and to Uyghur Pan for organising this talk and for hosting it. My name is Juan Esteve. I am an anthropologist focused on Uyghur and Xinjiang or East Turkistan studies at the Palatsky University in Ulamur and I today have the honour of chairing and moderating this panel, for which we've been very lucky to gather a lot of international experts, quite well known across the scene of both people in academia and also in politics and in activism, looking at the very worrying developments in Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region or East Turkistan as it is also known over the last few years. But some of you who are visiting and listening in on this might not be familiar with every one of these. So therefore the way we're going to proceed now is I will briefly introduce each of our panelists and then move on to give the word to each of them in turn to their opening and introductory statement. After this we will have a more general discussion. I will be asking some questions and we also take questions from the audience. You can send it to us on the Facebook page I believe and also on WhatsApp. It should all be the the information for how to send in the questions should all be in the on the on the event description on the Facebook page. So without further ado, we'd like to start introducing Dua Ilham graduate from Indiana University and a campaigner for human rights Uyghurs rights and also for the release of her father a renowned professor of economics Ilham Toghti who has been imprisoned unrightfully for since 2014. Dua Ilham works for the associate is an associate at the workers right consortium at the moment. Then we have Dolkun Issa a former pro-democracy student leader from the 1980s who came to Europe in the 90s and co-founded the World Uyghur Congress of which he is the current president. He has received a number of international prizes for his human rights work and advocacy and is also or has also served as the vice president of the unrepresentative nations and people's organization of the United Nations. Then we have Sairaigul Saubbaiva a former leader or head of five kindergartens in Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Oblast region. She was back then still a staunch believer in the system until she became a teacher in a reeducation camp between 2017 and 2018 and in 2018 in the summer was able to flee to Kazakhstan was imprisoned there put on trials and later released she now lives in Sweden and has just published a book on her experiences in the camps. She's also received the award of the International Women's of Women of Courage Urasikul Asim also a witness of the Chinese clamped down in East Turkestan. She had settled in Albania after studying geography and working in tourism and also studying English. Settled in Albania in 2010 but returned to East Turkestan in 2017 where she experienced the Chinese crackdown especially also touching upon her family. We have Nuri Turkel the president of the Uyghur American Association and chairman of the board of the Uyghur human rights project also co-founder of this project and also more recently the commissioner of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom and lastly we have a co-organizer of this event Keisar Öschun. He is the president of the International Uyghur Pen Center himself a cultural anthropologist also an artist and software developer and designer and he's a founding member of the Pen International Uyghur Center. So all of these people we here bring together in the panel today will be discussing the latest developments especially over the last few years but also hopefully the newest developments taking place in East Turkestan also known as Uyghur Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region where we since 2014 have seen a very harsh government clampdown on the local Uyghur Kazakh and other minority populations that in 2016 escalated into mass internment camps mass incarceration on a scale not seen since the Cultural Revolution and probably not even then an extreme international human rights crisis and crimes and our panelists have all experienced this on their own bodies basically through their families and some of them even personally directly today we have a chance to talk to them about it to ask them about their experiences and also about the work that they do now because what all of these panelists also have in common is that they are very active in informing the world about what has been going on and what is going on in the region and also in working towards solutions both for the Uyghurs and the region but also for other peoples and for the problems the worldwide developments that this has in part arisen out of so because Jewa Ilham is our has to leave early she will be the first one to whom I will give the word and Jewa I would I would like to start out asking you to tell us a little bit about your father and how you came to be an activist on his behalf and also on the behalf of the Uyghurs in general please you have the word thank you very much for your wonderful introduction and hello everyone my name is Jewa Ilham as a daughter I would like to start by sharing some of my personal stories and how I became an advocate for my father and for the Uyghur people when I was a kid I thought I wanted to be a dancer or a translator and my father really encouraged me to get on the translating path but then a lot whole lots of things happened and disrupted my plans I happened to be the daughter of Ilham Tohti who many of you may know for those who don't know my father Ilham Tohti my father is a well-known Uyghur economist who is now serving a life sentence in China for fostering dialogue between the Han Chinese and the Uyghur people and for advocating respect for religious and culture beliefs of our people and for equal opportunity in pursuing our dreams and the things that actually motivate us February 2nd 2013 I would never forget that date my father and I were on our way to America together and he was to be a visiting scholar at Indiana University where I also when I went where I went to school and graduated he was stopped at the airport and prevented from leaving the country and I was a teenager I was a freshman I just became a freshman in college at that time I was studying Arabic and hoping to become a translator I was planning to stay in the US for two to three weeks and help my father settle down but as you can see I'm still here and never left and at the same time I'm on the other side of the world away from my family and my home and that was the last time I saw my father in person and my younger brothers as well after I left the country my father was under house arrest for 11 months it wasn't the first time he was put under house arrest and he used to always tell me after he was released he used to always tell me it's okay it's okay Balam it's okay my child and he would continue his work and I would just remain silent and I thought okay maybe it was okay on January 15th 2014 my father was taken away and disappeared for more than three months without any work that was a time I knew it wasn't okay anymore and I couldn't remain silent so you see the motivation to do the work I am doing now is very personal up to 2017 I was mainly advocating for the right only for my father for my family and when I learned that hundreds of thousands of families were experiencing similar or even worse treatments that was a time I knew it wasn't okay anymore and I couldn't remain silent for I knew I had to start advocating for the for the rights of my people as well as many of you may already know over the last few years it is estimated that there are over 1 to 1.8 million Uighurs and members of other predominantly Muslim minorities such as Khazogs and Kyrgyz have been sent to re-education camps or forced labor centers which I call them concentration camps where they face a number of abuses and in fact recently the when many people argue how do you get the numbers and how do you prove that these camps existed actually the government proved it themselves just few weeks ago the state council information office of China released a white paper stating that since 2014 there are over 1.29 million people per year passing through vocational training centers and I think this is one of the many terms the Chinese government uses to refer to internment and re-education camps or concentration camps and which I think this constitutes the largest mass detention of an ethno-religious community since the world war two for the past few years the Chinese government is also transporting the Uighurs and other Turkic and Muslim people to other parts of China where they're working in factories under conditions that strongly indicate forced labor and those are systematic and state-sponsored forms of forced labor which intersects with other types of human rights abuses which includes forced sterilization, family separation, destruction of the agriculture which in order to wipe out century-old cultural landmarks undermining the Uighur culture and arbitrary detention, political indoctrination and pervasive start-way lens which I will have to lead to the topic of what I'm currently working on so I'm currently mainly working on the forced labor issues the mechanisms that brands retailers and independent labor rights inspectors would normally use to investigate possible forced labor is impossible in China because the Chinese government has placed the entire region in a wise grip of repression, surveillance and terror this makes it impossible for any worker suffering coercion to tell the truth to an investigator or an auditor so given the impossible task of conducting due diligence in the Uighur region I strongly encourage brands to sign on to the brand commitment to exit the Uighur region which is what I'm currently focusing on this brand commitment to exit the Uighur region which is initiated by the coalition to end Uighur forced labor this coalition to end Uighur forced labor has been endorsed by over 300 organizations all around the globe and the organization I am currently working at is also one of the coalition members so people whoever is interested please visit the end Uighurforcelabor.com to learn more information the only way that the corporates and brands can ensure that they're not being importing goods made with forced labor or in some way being complicit and the forced labor is to leave the Uighur region entirely and the brand commitment provides specific actions and guidance for brands to follow to prevent from being complicit so I ask people who are listening to this panel please again please check out the website where you will be able to find information about what can be done about the forced labor situation what has been done and who are the brands and corporates that are involved in forced labor and I know that the brand commitment provides steps that are not going to be easy for people to follow but it is feasible and in the end of my talk here today I would like to make few wishes as I am a selfish daughter I would like to start my wish for my father first I wish my father can be released from the prison in China as soon as possible I hope I can just receive a call this afternoon and say my father is out and I wish all the other innocent people who have been wrongfully detained in China can be released and be united with their families soon as soon as possible and I am also very much looking forward to see more and more brands can sign on to the brand commitment to exit the Uighur region and my in order to do that we will need consumers whoever who is listening to this panel please push those brands to to make that happen and my last wish is I hope all my wishes come true and thank you all very much for having me today I apologize I will have to leave early today for a work engagement but it is so nice to be invited to this event thank you Kaisereka for inviting me and it's so nice to be here with amazing leading activists please continue the good work and stay safe during this crucial time and hope to see you all soon in another time I will I promise I will stay longer next time thank you very much thank you thank you thank you very much for a really great introduction because we know you're going to have to leave soon I'm actually just going to follow this up with a very short question before we move on to Nuri Turkel I was just wondering I think this question of labor conditions falls of course labor super super important not just in the Uighur region but also on a global scale and I think this is really one of the things that we for the future if we want a well-functioning world need to be looking into much more closely I was wondering if you were looking just at the Uighur region or because you're working at a with a group or an association that looks at it also in a global perspective whether you can somehow connect this to a global perspective because I think this is also one of the things we need to do in order to get people's attention focused on the human rights abuses taking place in the Uighur region that we need to connect it to larger topics and then maybe secondly I know this is going to be very difficult to do sure but whether you could give us a bit of an idea if these brands move out of the Uighur region altogether what is how is this what is going to happen what what is the what is the idea what is the dream of the of the progression of this if you can do this in two minutes before we move on or just give us a basic idea that we can use to to think with further on in this discussion um for your first question um the for for many years I have been working alone I have tried I haven't been working officially in any organization I worked with a lot of people but I've only worked by myself but it is very difficult with one person's power I realized that I need to work with people who are expert on this I am I unfortunately I myself is not an expert so I decided to join the organization worker rights dot worker rights consortium which is includes employees that are experts in forced labor crisis and they have branches all around the world they have field staff all around the world focusing on forced labor crisis and up to you and until few years ago they started to adopt on this forced labor crisis in the Uighur region this specific issue and they decided to hire people who are knowledgeable or who who who is very passionate about the cause so I applied for the job and I decided that we can benefit each other and contribute to the cause to get it since we all have the same goal which is and Uighur forced labor and and therefore that's why I am working at this organization at and on the specific issue and my job title is actually a project associated for combating Uighur forced labor specifically and I really do hope with the help of leading experts on this issue that we can lead this to something positive in the future I know this is going to be a long fight because brands they do care about their how much they sell where they the benefits the financial the markets etc so it is going to be a long fight but it is feasible as I mentioned it's going to be very difficult steps for them to take but it is feasible and we do have already have few brands that are agreed to sign on the call to action the brand's commitment so that is a very good sign we're hoping to get as many brands as possible a lot of things a lot of the brands are agreed to take actions but are afraid to sign officially because of fear for retaliation from the Chinese government and that is why we need more and more brands to sign because if there's one brand or two brands are afraid of being retaliated then that's that is even more important to have all all brands to be unified at this at this stage so China can can target on one brand two brands can they target 20 brands 40 brands 60 or 100 brands so that is why we need to work hard to make that happen to persuade more people to sign and how do we persuade more brands which is I think unfortunately I'll have to stop because you need to go and also before Nuri Turkel gets on these details are super relevant and super interesting and I hope we can have you on at some other point to discuss them more in detail so thank you very much and I will thank you and I will now just out of time reasons move directly on to Nuri Turkel because I know that he will also have to leave quite soon so Nuri welcome and very great to see you you have started your work a lot earlier than Juhar and you came along a different path so to speak maybe you could speak a little bit to how you got into working on the issue how you got into the position that you're in right now and what you see as the main issues and the main path forward for both activism politics and academia in dealing with what is happening at the moment in the Uyghur regions please you have the word Nuri thank you so much thank you first of all I appreciate the organizers to invite me to be part of this important conversation I'm so glad to see my fellow Uyghur friends and colleagues on this panel I've been working on Uyghur human rights almost two decades now I came to the United States in 1995 formally get involved in the Uyghur human rights work a year after the bloody crackdown of the Uyghur massacre Uyghur is my father's place of birth that has a direct relevance to my own family so fast forward I have been immersed in the ongoing crisis addressing the concerns engaging in public education engaging in media relations engaging with governments making policy recommendations since early 2018 I mentioned this timeline because I never thought being in the center of the Uyghur advocacy in Washington I never thought that we would see this level of focus interest in the Uyghur issue the Uyghur's freedom struggle would be dealing as a horrific situation it's a genocide at the same time we have been able to accomplish quite a few remarkable successful progress in the in the Uyghur advocacy work in Washington in particular I was appointed to my current role by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi this past May before that I served as the president of Uyghur American Association and a previous director and the chairman of the board I'm not currently the president of the UAA Uyghur American Association but in addition to my policy advocacy work I'm also a full-time lawyer I have been practicing law almost 15 years now 15 16 years I'm currently also an in-house counsel for a European telecommunications giant so I have different responsibilities so focusing on what I do with with the US government I'm a US government official I am one of the nine commissioners in the US Commission on International Religious Freedom that was established with the mandate of 1998 in National Religious Freedom Act the commissioners are appointed by the president of the United States and the leaders of the Senate and the House the the term for commissioners is two years can serve up to four the the law that I mentioned earlier mandates that the commission focuses on the international religious freedom document report and make recommendations to the president of the United States Secretary of State and Congress this is a very important role particularly for me because I came to the United States as an immigrant this should be a kind of a model for European countries to also look into the immigrant population actually immigration is not a bad thing United States being an immigrant immigrant country gives opportunities to people who make home and become a contributing member of the society currently in the US government there are two of us with a weekly background and there's an official who is a China director at the National Security Council and I have this responsibility mostly working on the issues outside of the United States at foreign policy public advocacy so because of my role I focus highly and and and the deliberately on the foreign policy recommendation to both the United States government and the US allies and partners we all know that the China is a growing global partner but that should not be a user's a defeatist excuse for not doing anything United States government has already set the example by showing historic and unprecedented responses with the passage of the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act in in June and enactment in same month we have a legislation mandate to address the Uyghur crisis along with covering the issues that you have briefly touched the forced labor prevention and also protection and reporting of Uyghur American community from a Chinese harassment we also have a mandate now that requires the United States State Department to investigate excuse me the report and document human rights abuses and this is this the level of the industrial level of skill of the oppression the atrocities committed against Uyghur people by the Chinese government cannot be handled by one specific country or government and this is not about Trump administration this is about US policy for those of you who don't understand maybe not familiar with religious freedom issues in the United States it is it is considered as the first human rights it is in the constitution it's in the Declaration of Independence so whenever the US government talks about religious freedom people should not mix it up with a certain political party where occupant of the White House this is a bipartisan bicameral issue as it has been demonstrated in the support that the Uyghur people enjoy in the US Congress of those 435 members of Congress 100 senators the Uyghur freedom movement enjoys literally 97% of the support if it's 100% that would be a little unusual but overwhelming support have been then to the Uyghur's cause so this should be a model for other countries to consider and the Chinese have been telling the international community exactly the way that I described that linking US position on certain issues with the Uyghur issue misinforming public that this is about hampering China and also my good friend will I'm sure will touch upon the international institutions such as the UN how it has become a tool for the Chinese to extend its oppression to countries around the world and then I will attend the Q&A session I will be more than happy to discuss what government should do what has been done in the United States and what are the individual responsibilities and I I have been also working diligently deliberately on forced labor prevention issues both at home and abroad and I'd be happy to address any questions any issues that involves forced labor policy and legislative issues with that I'd like to thank you again organizing this event and I'm glad to be part of this discussion. Thank you very much that is really super valuable information also especially as to how these different organs function of especially the US government and administration that we are so dependent on in so many ways to get things done on a global scale and not least in relation to the Uyghur region so we will definitely return to you we look forward to seeing you back for the Q&A session thank you I'll be back great so now we will move on to Razikül Asil who as I said before experienced herself and on her relatives what the Chinese crackdown and mass incarceration look like when she in 2017 returned to the region after having been away for quite a while having settled in Albania and Razikül welcome it's great to have you here and it's great that you stand forth and and tell us about your first-hand experience that is a very brave and very important thing to do please could you tell us a little about your experience what happened when you returned what did you see and and how has your family been treated in the region please you have the word thank you thank you I'm very honored to be part of you talk about my written story thank you thank you everybody and thank you and I said it might be this I my name is Razikül Asil and I will I born in East Turkestan Khorla Khorla capital country and actually I finished a university here and I'll work it after some reason and I came to Albania I married Albanian and I'm staying staying like a simple person I I'm just like the mother but the wife and I just staying like I don't know I didn't have nothing to do with Chinese government for nothing about this and 2017 my father invited me to go home because it's long time I didn't see him he's very old man and I go home and I take my two kids with me and first day I got the airport is like Shanghai airport and there they check me a lot of time like two hours just to check him just to ask him where you come from when you go who are you these kinds of questions and after two hours they let me go and I stayed one night in Shanghai and second day I fly like Erniqi and I go to Erniqi of course they check me over here they ask like kind of same question of course they are not taking me they didn't come but they ask me too much question and they check me my stuff but after there I go to Erniqi because I want I had to stay there because my home is very very large from Erniqi and that day my brothers come to me he's just come to pick me up there and I stay one night but that day when I go to hotel I I enter hotel because they they have to check our ID ID card I am using ID card here not passport when I come here in the in the hotel they check me passport I don't know what's going on after they came a police in in hotel and they set me about my ID card your ID card is has a red point the first time I hear about the red point I'm thinking why I have red point who I am what what I did but the the police didn't tell me nothing just they check me my stuff everything and they asked me when they where you come from what you did but who are you that kind of question again again and I be very scary because I don't I don't know what's going on and even my brother after that day second day we moved to our country I left I leave but from that time I remember that it's very clearly that that day is morning we left from the country to go to Kuala we are going about that I they are too much place to check check us like I remember that maybe so because I I'm too scared maybe something is I didn't remember good but I guess like 12 station police station we have to get checking checking us but every time my ID card is is is has a has a voice because when I go and they check my they are going to this my ID card and they are they are warning something I don't know and the day every time the police come to check me and this is giving me a very pressure and I am really I am going going very under pressure here and after I'm I come to Kuala I stay again one night because his job is very far from from Kuala I have again I have to stay one night and that day I stayed my sister's house because I cannot stay anywhere because I'm very afraid and I stated my sister's home at that time that night and even police come to here I don't know where they know and also I I'm checking by them and second day I come again my country but they have a five station again I have to pass and every time pass also same same thing the same warning my by my ID card and police coming also ask same question and that day I come home like I think like seven o'clock I arrive at my home but the police is come to my home that night and ask same question and I sleep second day I just get up I think is I hear the police the police cars is outside and my family is they are very worried with this and I stay at my home come to like 10 police and they just let me stay there and they began to ask after they take take me my passport take and my passport and my telephone and they take and they said you don't have to get out what are from your your home just inside and leave the leave you check you and you don't have to talk anybody here even your husband I said okay and they go but after that every day sweet one day sweet times police come to check me in my home and I stayed this is patient by day by but I try to contact my husband but police say to me don't you don't have to you don't you don't you cannot contact this but this is give me very pressure because my husband he don't know my my problem what is going on there and they are maybe he's worrying my kids because they are too small my kid and I try to tell my related to contact my husband and my husband knows what's going on there it's humming of course and after after one day police said to me after after one week a police say to me go to police station because my phone is like like a 20 meter from the police station and from police station I go and I of course is my my company took to police with me and I go to police station and they asked me again same questions same I don't know same question why are you this kind of questions after they send me a home I go go home but after after two weeks they again call me to go go police station and I go but after this time I go and I didn't go out from like I stayed three days inside they not do nothing bad very bad to me but they take me that need love they said they will they will check me and they asked me a lot of question about the Uyghur Congress because I was in 2014 I was one times in Germany I maybe they check check check of this and they ask about this and anything about the Uyghurs what they do or you meet them pose you what you do and outside China this kind of questions of course I told you what I did because I never did something wrong here and after after three days of course they are not treating very bad but just one times I they give me food and after I I go out I go home of course they let me go home and I think like after one maybe 20 days later the police come again to my home and they said we sent you and at that time they call the consultation camp they call school of party I don't know they call like this and they said we sent you a school of party okay I said and I take my kids because nobody can take care of their own I don't have a nothing there may relate but it's not so I tell them I have to take my kids okay they said but I go to the consultation camp I stayed one day and I don't know what's the reason here I stay after afternoon the police come again to send me home they said you have to stay in the home after three days they come to government some people from government and they said you can apply your passport you can take but you have to do you have to write some promises to us and that time when I in home this problem is every Monday I have to go to because we have a rising flex every Monday and I have to go to the flex I forgot to tell this and everybody go of course is that as my home everybody is who's a who's we were they go not Chinese people and we go there and the afternoon they we finish the rising flex they they will have one kind of meeting and every day two people to go to talk about that why is we worse is toward terrorists why because we are tourists that's why we have to take what Chinese government do to us that kind of things we have to talk and everybody have to talk even I had I had to because I write about this why is outside China is very bad then inside China what I serve outside and what I what is party comes party is more good than other countries this kind of things anyway and after I applied my visa I passport sorry and and I stayed like for the cake my passport like I stayed like a kind of one month because I had to go too much place to take them take them sign to it and after my husband come come because he that they're till now I did he didn't allow but I don't know they allowed or he's come this is I am not very sure and then he come and take me from go back albina but then I come albina I have taken that's still the pressure from China's government because I cannot work if I work they they certainly Chinese the company say to you are you cannot so I ice line actually ice line because I'm thinking maybe I my slime is good for my family or ice line ice line but they never let me let me stay in slime and that's why I'm now I'm talking this is my story and I want to say in we were friends don't be slime because if we are slime this they're happening again they are still still do same seems to us we would and and is to stop thank you thank you very much thank you for your both for your personal story to share that with us must be very difficult for you and very emotional for you and also thank you for calling to all of the Uyghurs who've experienced similar things but also everybody actually who know about this to not be silent but to speak up about this this is extremely important and that is what we are trying to contribute to here now I will now turn to the president of the world Uyghur Association the world Uyghur Association here was mentioned as something that the Chinese were asking about when they were interrogating her we can all be shocked about the way they were approaching her and again and again and how they kept interrogating her asking the same questions over and over again now I would like to ask you because you've been dealing with these issues for very long time you've been dealing with the repression of Uyghurs in China for several decades now what Razigul here describes of the police visits and the extreme surveillance is that a normal experience do a lot of Uyghur have a lot of Uyghur had this experience and how long has this been the case how did things develop into this very difficult situation and on top of that I would also just like to ask you to tell a little bit about your own work for the world Uyghur Association and where you see the future work going the future effort being put into thank you you have the word Dolkunisa okay thank you good afternoon for us good afternoon good morning maybe friends is Washington and I would like to thank Museum of Movement and the Uyghur Pan jointly organized the side event and this panel and I also appreciate giving the voice to speak about the ongoing Uyghur genocide and I'm also very happy to share the same panel with my good friend Nuri commissioners and Jarher and my good friends and Kayser, Razigul and Syrah Gul all it is really amazing what what do Congress all work we are most doing advocacy work and because then so far recently so many people around the world no idea on the Uyghur issue I mean no idea on the Uyghurs but actually the Uyghur issue is that has a long history the problem has a not the new problem because most of them people just talking on just the Uyghur issue and also problem which has the face for the Uyghur just to happen recently it's wrong had a long history actually this problem has been started since occupation 9 to 49 years to extend has been occupied by Chinese Communist Party since the end this problem was starting but nobody knows this issue because there is a several reasons of course why most of people just know recently this so what do you come with the mean purpose and the rises we will atrocity to the international to the United Nations and we are since established we are very involved in a U.N. particular human rights mechanism and European institution European Parliament European Commission European external service and also we are working very closely rise we were issued to different of government and the national parliament national government and the civil society international NGOs and also we are trying to help the Uyghur refugees case because Uyghur refugees one of the critical issue for us and the time to time we was escape from China from east to east and because of the Chinese repression policy and then some most of some country in particularly neighboring country firstly reported to the Uyghur refugees to China and even every day we had such a horrible news yesterday one of Uyghur was detained in Saudi Arabia as well and the one of them is tricky some day some other part this is the one kind of job also what we are saying that we refuse life yeah so so far since established we are doing such kind of work and I'm the as you say I'm the president also want to come to system 17 but I was the funder of the Congress but China as I say it was what we're coming trying to rise to see international but Chinese government trying to hide in this reality Chinese government never a lot or Chinese government trying to push this we should not be into the international issue to trying to just in the hiding from the international it is easy to crack down the Uyghur so that's why time to time what would be Congress we had faced a lot of difficulty because Chinese government blame me as a terrorist what would be Congress or there's a terrorist organization so but most of some world he had very little information that's why sometime we had faced a really difficult solution but however we had continued fight or why today's we issue one of them well known international issue but as I say this is not new issue but current solution is dire Uyghur community is suffering incredible the action of the Chinese government has put in very existence Uyghur people on the street in the the particular last four years alone she can go who is the part Chinese Communist Party Secretary in East Turkestan and Xinjiang Uyghur from this region he was the party secretary in Tibet from 2011 to 2016 then he was the party secretary in Tibet he used the brutal way crackdown to Tibet in people as well then he was he was the appointed party secretary in East Turkestan in the Uyghur region then he used the his experiment and all the Uyghur region he turned an open air prison yesterday we can and he completely turned all the East Turkestan in the police state and the Chinese government has subject last four years he can say it was Uyghur people to must operate detention we don't know exactly number but we believe at this at the three million people are suffering in concentration camp but is surprisingly 14 of September this year Chinese government first time give hundred number as he published white paper and then saying each year since 2014 each year 1.3 million we were subject to the medication it is mean if you calculate the since six years then around 8 million 7.8 million we were subject to the medication and also we were subject to masturbation particularly women and other false birth prevention measures in order to diminish the population this actually Chinese has a long history this this one child policy start 1984 and also false labor of the modern slavery on 10,000 100,000 Uyghur people received the ASPE Australian National Strategy Policy Institute published reporting 82,000 Uyghur transporters other problems in China to subject false labor and attempt to destroy Unico Uyghur identity and to possible assimilate Uyghur people into hand-centric China and destruction of the physical repression of Uyghur identity including thousands of mosques and graviers and other sites of religious cultural and historical importance to Uyghur people and the ASPE report also same since 2017 more than 8,000 the most completely destroyed another 8,000 this party destroyed and banned also Uyghur language so many school of public space Chinese government actually this is the Uyghur language religious freedom is one of the freedom basic not only basic freedoms international community and international law also guaranteed by the Chinese constitution the autonomic law Chinese government not only avoided international law but also avoided its own constitution according to the autonomic law Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous law Uyghur language one of stress language one of official language but today is forbidden since 2004 several religious persecution including for example ban of growing bread, wearing Islamic dress and the Omen of Quran separate and the forbidden fasting this is the start of 2014-2015 and separated Uyghur children from the parents on the German scholar Adria Zhang saying is around 800,000 around 800,000 Uyghur children separate from the families they are subject indoctrinated and to be a royal and indoctrination royalty to CCP and the Chinese Communist Party Xi Jinping and also Harishmen punishment and the Uyghur diaspora not only Chinese government punishments Uyghurs in the inside is Turkestan also because Chinese law are getting lower and lower internationally trying to ask and the Uyghur diaspora and who in diaspora anyone who dare to speak and immediately Chinese government use different of the hostage diplomacy and use different of way and trying to push and silence I'm one of some person of says I have been suffering more than 21 years by the red notes by the Interpol you know until 2018 until my red notes was delayed I was became so many country borders and yeah even in Europe even in Europe and different some other country and 2017 Chinese government completely kept communication between Uyghur diaspora and the Uyghur family I can say most of 1995 percent who didn't accept Uyghurs in Turkey are also all kind of contacts and family members we just we got if some heartbreak news was happening is a family I personally also I got since 2017 I have lost my contact my family member but 2018 middle of June I got first heartbreak news my mother died and this is just news but I don't know what condition she passed away but later I learned from international media she died one of the Chinese concentration camp and the beginning of the 2020 this year January beyond January I got second heartbreak news my father died but still I have no idea what condition my father died even I don't know I have no idea and where is that his symmetry is this is a 21st century communication it's not problem at all but it is a big problem for us today this is the whole thing is going on now and just a logical assume she she she explained what kind of because she she she was not activist she has no any criminal things but just she went to the strict stand for the family visit visit but she explained what kind of problem she had you know this is the this is just an example what I'm saying what's the radical assume saying today is the very general situations that we were community most of them people just talking about the people who live in this concentration camps three million people four million people some international scholars saying over the one million people however not problem is not all these are problem is people who live in concentration camp but rest of some million Chinese government saying we will publish a 20 million but people it was a 20 25 million whatever 20 million or 12 million rest of some 20 million people who live on the outside camp also same problem because Chinese government already turn all the region other is a police state and the several land technology area is a face recognition voice recognition camera and every moment every daily life and the sweeten and the monitor on why the Chinese go comes to party Chinese police security service that and people maybe he's outside people there is a maybe some advantage he can eat them on time on time and maybe he can eat them we were fooled on time but they are feeling not safe they don't know they are they are staying with the fear every moment because next or the next day what will be happening nobody knows because you don't have a way to ask what is the reason so simply because you burn or you will because you'll be an entity you can very simply take to the concentration camp and disappear this is the institution so we are all to the congress trying to rise just to issues internationally what's all the things no is so many camp survivor is the main testimony maybe we will listen to me it was a Syrahul exactly yeah some money other camp survivor also talking so many international media reported so no it is no any reason to science it is a genocide yeah so I have to stop maybe thank you yes thank you very much thank you for a lot of information and a lot of commitment also which is very very important and again the call for speaking up now you've mentioned a lot of very very important topics that unfortunately we don't have time to cover in detail today we could be talking for hours about both the surveillance and also the the different kind of repressions that the Chinese government puts on Uyghurs outside of China that you have been experiencing yourself but you mentioned several times and also the others have mentioned the camps and the witnesses that have spoken out about the camp camp survivors and we are so lucky here to have one of the most courageous and one of the most important witnesses of the camps with us Syrahul Saudbaiva she served as a teacher in one of the camps and saw some of the really horrific treatment of the camp inmates also experienced it on her say her own body before several months later she was able to escape to Kazakhstan so now let us go into the inside of the camps from a camp survivors personal experience please Syrahul we have spoken to each other many times before I know your story and I know the courage it has taken for you to to stand before everybody and and talk about this I would like you to tell us unfortunately shortly your personal story and what conclusions you draw from it yeah for raising for languages so I'm the interpreter for Syrahul so she will talk in her languages so I will be interpreting to the English you know the first of all I have to be appreciate for that organizer especially the Malmo culture that the moments museum as well as other organizer so same time I really appreciate for our other colleagues on these panels which have presented that the the situation in East Turkestan my name is Syrahul I am ethnically Kazakh in the region I born in the East Turkestan is our ancestors homeland and we are centuries leaving here from the long long time ago and our country is Turkestan has been occupying 49 by the ccp since then we are under their control when I was in East Turkestan I was working as a doctor medical doctor as well as that the kindergarten as the chief of the kindergarten and this situation is not simply was that there recently has happened but was it long ago the Chinese government had a new plan for such a group in East Turkestan like we go Kazakh they want to raise them from this country and ethnically they actually is the beginning of 90s they already had it started like a burst control in our region and that's the maybe is the beginning of the how the others are tightening our situation for more and that pushing to raise these nations from that region as well as we can see that from 2006 that the Chinese government is changing the education policy so there is no anymore like a local the autonomous region languages or minority languages at schools education system for this reality is a force in as our the Kazakh as our family we decide to go to Kazakhstan which our neighbors so that was at that time I we are preparing for a move to Kazakhstan from China but unfortunately I'm not lucky enough to apply for a passport the for this reason as a family member I stayed because I had no passport stay in the home in the China my two child and my husband actually my husband is retired from his teaching job he was teacher of course so then the family member was moved to Kazakhstan but not me so I can say that from the 2016 that China is that starting this can for that genocide for our Turkey promise at times of my neighbors my colleagues my friends my family members the day by day they are just disappearing for something else we don't know where they are taken so it's that how I feel that scary in this time it's not only me it's all around me the who I know and even the whole the region I believe we had to prepare for all our clauses they're all kind of clauses are prepared for the bag maybe tonight or sometime the immediate deposit will become take as and then we have to prepare for our baggage otherwise we will be taken is without clauses so this is how we are stressing all the time when is my turn is coming for me I am from 2017 I also part of this genocide policy so that 2017 one one day at the midnight the police come to my home and take me to the police station without asking anything to beat me and asking my mirrors of my family they are in Kazakhstan this kind of taking from home is a unknown time as they want it's a repeat again many times for my personally and release and take release take and then 2017 in November I officially was appointed as a teaching as a Chinese language in the camp for those detainees the first I have to do is I have to sign for one a conditional agreement to which I have to keep the secret of this what I'm seeing in this camp so I have to sign on paper first the year I was teaching now in that camp around the 2500 people they included all the young women and men and everyone has been in the shackles as well everyone has been in the the hair was taken for that and so I am the teaching for them and the camp for Chinese the among them all kind of people I can see the business man teachers or intellectual all kind of the people was inside in this camp and they are especially they're targeting ours the intellectual first of course the one thing I would like to mention is that some rooms in this concentration camp is a result that the camera sensory camera control in that room what's going on we don't know but we know that's the kind of the sale with their tortures all the unimaginable way of torturing those camp people the other part of the except that the special room the other part of the everywhere is so we are coming on the control of the whole activity with the everything and the everywhere the in that camp I also would like to mention about that especially for young women and women's will be subjugated very badly and they will be very badly by what they call this or someone someone else in that the inside of the camp and raping them and sterilization for the woman especially for that the all kind of unbelievable saying this is happening in this camp as a teacher when I had the chance into those sales which is torturing those people when I saw those those tools I keep with whatever so that the how they are torturing using those things for those people to win if I'm not seen by my own eye I don't believe such things in 21st century still exist in 2018 in March they changed for their intention way of me and they say that I have been like sent to the other detention center for three years this is the official how do I say the internment to the camp so that I know I have been experienced the money years in the camp so I know everything what's going on the situation I understand well so if I take to again for this camp I don't think I will be come out in the live so I decided by the way escape from China to Kazakhstan so why I decided that anyway I will die so better let me try before I die I have to met with my children who's in my neighboring country Kazakhstan so I just tried to go to push me to the this difficult way to escape from China to Kazakhstan and I'm lucky enough to come to the Kazakhstan and that met with my two child Kazakhstan so when I escaped from the China I decided what I saw this the virtual concentration can what I saw there was things I had to tell that media for that all situations the world must be now what's going on this question stick can so when I come to Kazakhstan the Kazakhstan the police department and they want to deport me back to China but the Kazakh people they are not knowing them to do so so they have been stopped and as well as that the the world the home advice organizations such as you and organizations they are they are helping me to stop the deport to China but anyway that in Kazakhstan I also have been detained for nine months in prison and I waited that year ah so they're in this nine months time I applied for the future they are not accepting my application but I'm lucky enough by United Nation the command rights organization helped me reset on to the Sweden here so later I come to Sweden with my family so that I first of all I really appreciate for the decision government who will give me the second life or leaving me as a free country like that I really appreciate since then I'm trying to all my best to the telling the story which I have experienced in the camp ah I would like to the ask or to my hope for those audience and others the politician in the world who listening who is attending for this conference as as I would like to tell them this is not between China and United States like it it can only wow or something else but this is more serious matter is this is not only for the East Turkistan people this is for commanding for worldwide as a human being we have to stand up to stop such birth of fascistic regime in China ah as far as I know this is this United States government was and I also wish this is the worldwide all the country that this is the ethnic genocide which happening in China is the last I would like to ask for that as President Trump has been signed for those people for the we were uh we were commander rights law the act for that signed paper I would like to this act is in the real it's not only for United States but other countries in the world also to support this we react the law in the United States has been signed thank you very much thank you thank you very much indeed for your witness account and also for your conclusions and thoughts about it like I mentioned in the beginning Saida Gull has just published a book about her experiences it's come out in German but it will also appear in English I think next summer these are very important witness accounts and her experiences need to be told to the world and spread to the world one of the things that you mentioned Saida Gull is also the help that you have gotten after all from you mentioned the American government that has recognized what is going on in East Turkistan as a genocide from the Swedish government who is hosting you now and also from the Kazakhstan people that would not let you be extradited to China so I think in between all these stories of suffering and of terrible violent and oppressive structures we also see small glimpse of solidarity and hope that I think that we can hold on to one of the things you mentioned in connection with this and also all of you others actually have mentioned this is the threat of being silenced and Kaiser I know as the president of the Uyghur pen you are one of the people working hard against this silencing because one way to silence a whole people is actually also to stop their voices from within the people and that is often the writers and poets and you've been working now for a long time the imprisonment and detention and also the pressure put on Uyghur intellectuals and writers especially detention in China itself but also pressure on them outside so now I would like you just in the last few minutes we have to give us a brief overview of how the situation is how your work is proceeding and then maybe also because we haven't really gotten to that yet mention why this panel is called never again this is I believe you who decided to call it that and what that connects to and how you how you see this issue you have the word please Kaiser how much for your moderate such wonderful panel the first of all of course I appreciate for a monologue culture our friend Peter Gennig which have been used as this opportunity talk here uh yes as you as you mentioned this freedom of expression is basic human rights everyone should speak it's given by crater not allowed taken by any others so this is very basic uh right this we have but today the Uyghurs all these Turkestan people like Uyghur Kazakh and other Turkic minority have not such right this as you mentioned in modern decades from 2006 or five I started working with pen international and international is standing up for without any border without any ethnic background any political background whomever everyone must have this right as for freedom of expression but in our country we are reborn and calling this Turkestan and it's Chinese called the Uyghur Autonomous Region autonomy means rule by yourself but unfortunately we don't have such right this since this occupation maybe in the beginning we have some for autonomic linguistic and translation right this but as well as a very basic education and right this but after 90s there is not such right this the autonomy means the people have to rule by themselves but today there is a after especially this 2016 or 15 we can see there is about more than 316 which we have been listed by our some researcher uh the intellectuals especially for the professors uh lecturers or writers artists and publishers has been taken by the police to unknown place we don't know maybe president maybe the uh somehow they are forced to disappear we don't know that's we have no evidence and I can't tell you we are the exact until they are released or they come out we can't justify this either so such situation is more horrible um as our colleagues in the before from jihad uh and uh tell us i'd argue everyone has been mentioned that all that situation I don't need to repeat it again so uh today as a pen we really stand up to for to speak it up silence is just another kind of genocide if you're silent you will disappear you have to stand up and you have to defend your own right for this reason we call those friends give us this opportunity to talk as a like country like sweden or scandinavia it's you know this part of world have no idea we cannot think about that even we're telling this story and of course sometime I also don't believe what I am telling what I am saying I asking myself is that still is happening unbelievable story so this human is difficult to understand that as well for this reason uh we we were founded at the malmo culture moments museum we have been this part of the safe haven program so I really appreciate where everyone's attending here of course that because of the time it's 100 o'clock maybe you have given time for asking question I don't know so I had to stop here because all other my colleagues have been already have been told all story of course there's an endless story we can continue many many hours many many days maybe years so I appreciate when it so please if there's any other question for any other panelists other speakers so they are probably welcome to answer for that thank you very much kaiser we actually don't have any questions unfortunately I don't know if that's due to technical problems of getting the questions here of course there are many questions and I have many questions for each of the speaker but we also have run out of time and we need to wrap up so I thank you very much for getting together we have touched on a lot of very important topics that can be fleshed out further we have introduced the speakers and where they work so they can be accessed via email through their working places and you can approach all of us including myself to get more information about what has been going on and for the last part of the session today I am wrapping up and passing on the word to frederick elk who has been an organizer of this session so thank you to all of the panelists thank you to everybody who was here and please frederick you have the last word thank you so much and thank you to you very strong and very great testimonies thank you so much and thank you those of you who are not here in our space for your valuable knowledge thank you for sharing so much to us and thank you it was very important very important talk very important information that we got and as you mentioned this is part of the safe evidence conference that is usually a physical meeting but in times of covid we meet over the internet so every month we have a freedom talk and the freedom talks are part of the safe evidence conference the next session in the conference will be on december 3rd at 1 30 central european time when we have a two roundtable discussions with frederick elk and some very prominent and important organizations in the arts rights justice sector for freedom of speech and artistic freedom so welcome them and again thank you so much everyone for for talking and everyone who joined us and watched us thank you so much thank you