 I reckon we should eat hobos. People who don't pay tax should be punished and beaten. If I don't know them, I don't care really. Dude, I'm getting real evil vibes from you, brother. Like, I wanna like not, but you're giving me serial killer vibes, Roe. Do you eat a koala? Nah, mate. Why not? They're cute, mate. They're cute? Yeah, wouldn't eat one. I reckon I'd taste a bit eucalyptus-y, you know what I mean? So, what about kangaroos? Would you eat a kangaroo? Yeah, yeah, 100%. Why? I reckon the meat would be tender. So, it's about the taste for you? Yeah. So, it's not about the animal really. Yeah, nah, not really. What other animals do you eat? Chicken, beef, a bit of everything. Beef isn't not an animal. Oh, cows. A cow? Yeah. Would you eat a dog? Nah. Ah, here we go. Now we've hit the spot. So, koala, maybe not because of the taste, but why not a dog? Um, I reckon they could be treated as a pet. Like, you currently have a cow in your backyard. Why would you give moral consideration to a dog? Like, why would you care about that being? Because they have a motion. A motion? Yeah. What other property do they have that you consider morally important? Um, you can... They're like a companion where, like, you can walk them, do the thing kind of like a cat. Like, I wouldn't eat a cat. Do you believe they are conscious beings? Oh, yeah. And they're having their own experiences? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They want to avoid suffering and they're like... Yeah. ...to be comfortable. So, what about... What other animals? What about a cow? If you ate a dog, I wouldn't consider it wrong. Like... Would you consider cutting their head off wrong? Um... The dog? Because they are eating its own thing. Their own purpose? Yeah, of course. Is it wrong to cut the dog's head off for eating purposes? Uh, yeah, if you wanted a feed, yeah. If you just wanted a feed, it's okay to kill the dog? Yeah. Okay. What about anything? Do you agree with it? Well, for one, koalas are endangered, right? That's all that comes down to what we should be. Okay, what about if I farm them? You farm them. So, there's no longer endangered? I feel like, for the children, like, for like... I just wouldn't be able to outlook that people want. Eating, like, cuddly... I'm asking for cute things. Just because they're cute? I mean, some people are less cute than others. Does that mean we can kill the less cute people? No. Okay. I'm asking for why we have a moral consideration for this animal. I mean, you're saying because they're an icon or they're fluffy and they're cute. But what about intrinsically, like, inside of them? Right, so if they're not endangered, then I don't see a problem. Cutting koalas' heads off is fine if we farm them? If they are, yes, if they're not endangered. And we're using them in the same purpose of, say, cows or pigs or sheep. Okay. Let me ask you this, what about humans? Can we do that to humans? I would say no, because we all are a lot more... We're the top of the food chain, and it should say that way. We have the power of, like, mentality. Like, we can... With the dominant one? Yeah, with the dominant one. Like, we should not be... Wow, wow. So that makes it out... So have you ever heard Mike makes a right? So if we're dominant, but not all humans are dominant, right? So we can actually target vulnerable people, enslave them and kill them for meat, right? Because there are more dominant humans than others. Children are less dominant, they're vulnerable. So your argument kind of contradicts itself in the human race, doesn't it? It comes in also as, well, food there is for a reason. And if it came down to it, I'd eat a koala over a human. One second. Off topic. You're trying to avoid that topic. You said because we're dominant, we can't do it to other humans. Yeah? True. Now, I said there are humans who are less dominant than other humans. That gives us a right. I'm saying that you stopped at human there. I feel like humans, humans all together is one thing. I feel more less dominant. What do you mean? I feel like... What gives us importance? This, this, all of us would build a... We would have... You'd build, yeah, you didn't. No, but humans do. If you can't build a building, right, kids can't. Kids can't. Yeah, but they can grow up to build one. Not all people have the capacity to. Because we have the function of we work for tax, we work for the government, we work... We make the system. We make the system. What if we didn't? I reckon we should eat hobos. So you should eat some humans. So we shouldn't eat vulnerable humans, like homeless people? Yes, I reckon people who don't pay tax should be punished and eaten. What if they don't... They're born in some situation where they can't? Well, we give them a certain amount of time, they kick themselves up. Okay. So you're okay with eating koalas? One. And people? Yep. All right. And you? People and koalas? Yeah. Okay. Cannibals, so you're two Jeffrey Dahmers in the making? Yeah. And you? Do what you feel. We're all going to die anyway. What's the matter? So just do whatever you feel. I don't care, don't bother me. Have you had Alistair Crowley? He was the founder of the Satanist movement? No, hasn't bothered my life. He said, do as thou wilt. Have you heard that phrase? Do as thou wilt. That's Alistair Crowley for me to say. But um, yeah. So Satanist, I'm saying. So you're f***ing Satanist, yeah. That's the Satanist's principles. Like do as thou wilt. So it doesn't bother me. I don't care. This is a vegan thing. So even like abusing people, killing people, if it feels good to you, if you've got some urge, do as thou wilt. If I don't know him, I don't care really. Cold. Is this a thing? Cold. You're a gangster brother. I don't give a f***. That is gangster. You don't care about that. As a family, you don't give a f***. What if it was your family? But you said do as thou wilt. If someone did that to your family. Well then, then yeah, it's a bit different. Why is it different? Because it's different. But you're saying do as thou wilt to other families. Oh yeah, then I will care. Oh, if it's to my family. It matters only when it happens to us. That's all I'm saying. If we didn't have, like we're the koala. We're barely lippin' for ourselves. If we didn't kill chickens for eating. Not everyone, man. If we didn't kill chickens for eating, we're where they can't live. Like, they're farmed. Yeah, but chickens are outnumber us one. It's human into being three to one. It's human into being three to one, so. Chickens and cows over koalas, anyway. Yeah, no, they selectively bred these species over time to serve a purpose. No, this is the world I was born in. I've got to deal with it. But you don't have to follow everything in the world. But I'm not going to change anything. You can make differences. You can make differences in your own life. I'm not wasting my life making a difference. I'm just going to die and it's not going to matter to me anyway. Yeah, but for the people that are here and the animals that are here, when you die, it's good to leave a good legacy behind. Positive one for them. But, um, yeah, I mean, that's a self-sensitive sort of worldview. But chickens, chickens outnumber us three to one. You're a nihilist, brother. You know the word nihilist? No, I don't know anything. So chickens outnumber us three to one. Who cares anyway? That's not going to matter in the end. Yeah. Chickens outnumber us three to one. Where'd you get that number from? It's actually ten to one. Ten to one. Chickens. They're murdered, uh, I think they murder about between 60 and 80 billion chickens a year. So 60 and 80. And if we didn't, if we didn't kill them, so what, if we're going to breed them and then... No, they're breeding them into existence to kill them. If you stop the breeding process, they stop becoming into existence. We're just going to just get rid of chickens. As you're saying. Well, jungle fowl in the, in nature, leave them as they are. But I'm talking about, yes, mass breeding and exploiting animals is a moral abomination. Just like if I took your genes and your genes, started splicing humans together in some farm and they're sentient conscious beings. They don't want to die. They feel suffering. Start growing food off of people. It's a moral issue then. That's just evolution of the human culture and what it's going to come to. Like, we're going to have to, like, futureize everything that we have, right? Eventually, or as we want to stay the same. Can't we evolve past like a cruelty killing, though? Yeah, but what are we going to evolve to? Veganism. Everyone. Everyone in the world is going to evolve to veganism. Well, no, the ones you can't, you can be vegan right now. Bang. You've got to keep balance in the world. I feel like what it will come killing is about... No, I don't know that. It all comes down to the vote. It'll just be all good. It'll... Same with the quality. It comes down to the vote. It won't be all good. F***. Dude, I'm getting real evil vibes from you, brother. Like, I want to, like, not, but you're giving me serial killer vibes, Roe. You know, you're saying it can't be all good. Like, we've got to have some mass killing. How long are you... Do as thou wilt. Have you been vegan your whole life? You know... Cool look of mass killing? Well, look, we had bought after and now there's no guns in Australia, so it's very cool. I know, maybe just do good. I don't know what I'm talking about, but yeah. We've bought after and now we don't have gun laws. It's not saying it's good, but... I mean, I don't know if it's very good logic, man. Everything in the world happens. Nothing's a good logic. Have you been vegan your whole life? Absolutely not. Oh, you... No. I... What made you change? I didn't think it was morally justified. I thought it felt like a hypocrite. I was saying, well, I care about dogs and whales and dolphins. The animals that society tells me to care about, but there's no morally significant difference between those animals and the animals that I eat and stab and kill, pay for people to stab and kill at my plate. I felt like it was wrong and I come from a past of violence and gangs and I didn't want to hurt people or animals anymore. I thought if I live consistent as I can in a horrible world that we live in, then I'm setting a good example for others. But if we didn't kill them, like they wouldn't serve as much of a purpose. Who cares? Who serves? Like, you know, that's a... Think about that argument in the human context, right? You're only there for my purpose. But let's say the purpose is wrong. Of course it's wrong. It's horribly wrong decapitating animals. If you're the animal, ask if it's wrong when you're the animal because it's easy to look for our lens and humans' lens. See how you say that? But the animal doesn't, like, can't talk. Can't... Do you know what I mean? Some humans can't. Can we kill them? But if they're a pedophile, we'll kill them. But they've done something. They're doing something wrong to children. But saying the animals did nothing wrong, chickens did nothing wrong. But chickens, like what you said, outnumber us and we'll serve them. They're just going to live in the wild and we'll have chickens and cows. Because we forcibly break them into existence to outnumber us and it doesn't matter if they outnumber us. They're not harming anyone. But so what? We're just going to have chickens and cows. We are the harmers. We're going to have chicken and cows just walking around. No, that's not how it's going to work. These are animals we've created. But if we didn't have farms... Where do these animals come from? Breeding on farms? Selectively bred animals. They're not from nature, these animals. They're derived originally from nature. But they've been selected in bred to grow meat, meat off their bones or milk. What about milkies? What about milking and eggs? Like... Those industries are riddled with violence and they kill all those animals when they're done with them. So you had a couple chickens in the backyard and they grew eggs? That's not what we're talking about, is it? But if you did... Well, that's not what we're talking about. I'm talking about you. You won't even stop it. You would eat a koala. You would eat a human. Yeah, if you can't... You want to do what you want! I'm getting scared of you! I was at the abattoir's chopping their heads off. Were you? Did you work on it on the kiln floor? Yeah, I did, but I didn't kill one. Okay. What kind of abattoir? A beef expert. Okay. Killing cows. And what did you think about working there? Like just... F***ing loud in there. I'll tell you that. Just like standing in the blood, any killing? Smell any of the skins and entrails? They don't really smell much. It's very air conditioned. But yeah, you watch them all hang by their things and they all get sliced up down the chain, get dropped down, get sliced again, bagged up. And so... So you see them after they've been bolt gunned? Yeah, yeah. Ever seen footage from them in the... No, that's it. I was in the boning room, which is more... After they get carcasses. Not in the slaughterhouse. And that's... Only certain people are allowed to kill them. Some hella f***ing... Yeah, it was a hella house lord, a house like that, gotcha? Anyways, watching the animal in the knock box about to be bolt gunned, they actually are terrified. They don't know what's necessarily going to happen, but you know they don't want it to happen to them. And then you get to see a... They're conscious. Yeah, they're conscious, haven't they? There's no proof they're conscious. There's no proof you're conscious. They've proved to me you're conscious. There's no proof. I can't. Exactly. I can't, there's no proof to it. But we infer it because you have a brain eyes and you react in a way and you just... Yeah. So we can infer that from animals too. But that's where it comes from why most people don't, like still eat, otherwise everyone would be vegan. If we all believed, or there's all proof that animals did feel pain like we did the humans and that was like that. There's proof they do. I feel like a majority of people, if you went around and asked more people, they would say, oh it's just a chicken. Well that's a lack of education, but the evidence exists. Well that's why people say they're only small animal. But what's the purpose of the cow? One sec, one sec, let me finish this point and then I want to hear your purpose of the cow. They say that people point out as like a small chicken right? Like it's just a little chicken, like who cares if we eat it? But then again we're saying that that's a chicken, that's conscious chicken. Like it feels the same pain as us and all that. So we should value that little chicken a lot more. But we don't. We don't because that's what majority of people have just, yeah, uneducated people. I guess. And I wasn't educated. Yes. I took me a little while to wake up. I knew animal cruelty was wrong, but I didn't really understand why I didn't do that. Exactly, yes. Because there's a real deeper meaning. And if you look at it from the human context, like doing what we do to chickens to people, then you can't understand what we're saying. They've got personalities. They don't want to die. They've got all these reasons that we should value. Yes. Because we wouldn't put it down to ourselves. Again, yeah. But it's like, then again with like the other things. For our families, like I said, because my family would be on war, but chickens ain't hurting my family. They're not doing nothing wrong to us. We have no reason to do it to them. Well, we've got reasons, but no justification. Exactly, I see what you mean. Exactly. So if a cow, so if a cow, if we didn't kill cows at all for me, and everyone on the earth was vegan, the cow's purpose is to cut your grass. What is your purpose, mate? Wash it. So this is where you get into the oppressor mentality. If you don't serve a purpose for the oppressor, your life doesn't matter. And that's like underpinned in every single atrocity, human atrocity you can think of. They don't matter. Let's enslave them and get us to do their work and then we'll kill them. They don't matter. Let's gas chamber them. They don't matter. Let's do whatever we want to, whoever we want. But that's not what human rights or animal rights are. Because to serve a purpose is, us serving a purpose is not like a cow's purpose. Like you cannot... Who dictates what a cow's purpose is? The one who wants to cut them up and eat them. Yeah. That sounds like I'm pretty unfair. But... You're motivated. The whole word fair doesn't, like a cow can't understand like a cow. So you basically get into a tricky territory because the babies can't understand what's fair. Neither can dogs, and neither can people with severe handicap. We protect them because they're vulnerable. Yeah. And because they deserve to be protected because they're sentient. Yeah. So it doesn't matter if a cow doesn't understand what's fair. Because a baby will grow up and develop into a human paying taxes and working jobs. I can ask you this question. Do you think a cow who's about to be shot in the head thinks to themselves, oh, this is fair? Yeah, but... Because a cow can't think that. You don't think cows have intellectual thought? No. Okay. Well, that intellectual thought goes pretty quick. That thought goes away pretty quick. So you don't think a cow, they might not think in the same language. What does a dog think when they want something and when they want to go for a walk or when they have something that's tasty or when they want a snack? Does a dog do that? Yeah, in a sense. Why does a dog do it and a cow doesn't? What's the tip? A dog's more developed, I know. It's like, cannot compare a dog to a chicken. Do you have evidence for that? You're just making claims without evidence. Just by plain saw. It's the reduction of like being able to train a dog. Being able to train a dog, a cow you cannot train. Simplicity. Have you... How do you know that? Because no one has a pet cow. No one. This is where we're talking about lack of education before. Remember when we were talking about lack of education and you just said it about consciousness? Yeah. You're doing it now with intelligence. But let's just say you're all right, cows are stupid, you can't train them. Right? What matters is their sentient. Do you have a difference between intelligence and consciousness? Yeah? Yeah, still they're feeling this. Intelligence is like a computer. Consciousness is your experience. You're a subject in their suffering and experiencing well-being. You don't have to be super intelligent and we don't even have that moral metric for human beings do we? We don't say oh they're smarter, leave them alive. They're actually mentally handicapped, let's kill them. Because that's what Hitler did. Yeah? Yeah. What do you think that was wrong? Hitler killing disabled people? Because he felt they were defective and not part of the superior race? Yeah, but I'm just a Hitler. That's a cheap cop out, that's not what I said. The similar mentality that Hitler had where he used to justify killing disabled people in gas chambers was they're not superior, is the same mentality that you're using to justify killing animals that you don't think are as superior as you in their intelligence. That's the same metric. Yeah. Now I can compare any two things I want. I'm not saying they're exactly the same thing, which is equating. Yeah. I'm saying they're comparable in your mentality. I'm not saying chickens are the same as people, either I did say that. Yeah, yeah. The mentality's the same. All right, I want to make a note. Did you learn something? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No worries brother. And you? Yeah. Yeah. Hope you find a bit more positivity my friend. I feel like you might be a little bit nihilistic and lost hope in the moment. I'm on a good stake now. Oh god, let's go. Please help us all. What is the reason that you don't eat animals? Are you saying plants don't have brains? Or insects don't have brains? You don't have to keep going. I'm not stupid. I mean, this is just hilarious. Brother, this is hilarious. But no, it's not hilarious. It's just why do you eat certain insects that are sentience and have consciousness? What do you mean? Are you a troll? Is he mucking around?