 of civil engineering and joined Dr. Williams University in fall of 2016. She's a bachelor's degree in environmental engineering from oyster polytechnic institute and received a Ph.D. in civil engineering from UMass Amherst. She also holds a part-time faculty with the US Geological Survey. Her research focuses on the analysis of water quantity and quality in both natural and built hydrologic systems. Our second panelist is Jennifer Wolfias. She is the founder of Wolfias Inc. an independent communications firm that helps companies in business software and services and other technology sectors build solid brands and increase visibility, sales, and market share. As an accomplished high-energy PR and marketing professional, Jennifer has over 15 years experience championing global media and annual relations efforts, content marketing, social media strategy, and more for the high-tech and BTE sectors. And Betsy Cotten as a founder of Cornell University School of Hotel Administration, Betsy has enjoyed a wonderful period of 20 years. She has held a variety of sales from health management and leadership positions throughout her time in this area, and has greatly valued the relationship between her and me along the way. Now, as a global health executive who merits global sales participation, Betsy manages a diverse portfolio of 60-plus national associations that help helping to be a separate point of contact in the healthy area and across the community. Six thousand hotels help. I think we're going to start off with you guys and tell us a little bit about your career journey. Well, she's sorry. I can start, I guess. So, as was mentioned, I'm a sophomore here in the engineering program of some engineering. I did my bachelor's at drugs degree in environmental engineering at Worcester Point Technic, Worcester Mass from Massachusetts. I stayed relatively close my whole life. And then I went over to UMass Amherst, where I got my master's in environmental engineering and my PhD in civil engineering. I started here and kind of also started at the same time a faculty, what's called a faculty appointment part-time work with the U.S. Geological Survey. So I don't know if any of you are familiar with the U.S. Geological Survey. It's like part of the Department of the Interior. It's a branch that does a lot of environmental work. So the group that I'm in does water work. So we're measuring stream flows across the nation, figuring out how to translate that data into things that are useful for making engineering decisions. So I kind of, I hold this joint appointment here and then also working with them, which the work with them is mostly focused during the summer months when I'm back here teaching. So that's my career journey. I'm still relatively new on my career journey. So that's more to me, more said to them. Let's see, so I graduated from Boston College with an English major and probably like many of you, I had no idea what to do with an English major if you have one. You're much luckier than something else. But let's see, so I thought, you know, if I'm an English major I should be a writer. So I jumped into the publishing world and immediately became an editorial assistant to which I realized I could not make a living. It was about $24,000 here to start and I said this was not exactly where I wanted to be. It was also just not very challenging. It was a lot of editing and I wasn't actually doing any writing myself. So one day this woman came in to host some kind of a seminar and immediately, she was a management consultant and immediately I was like, oh, I want to try that. So I went home that day and I wrote a program that I thought she should deliver. It was very, I don't know what it said, but it was a program with, you know, people's different personality traits and how to work with them in the workplace. And I took her out to lunch at Stephanie's on New Mary and I said, I really want to work for you. I don't know what I want to be. And she said, sure. So I worked with her for a year and it went okay. Again, it wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. I have a little bit of an unconventional career, sorry. But so, oh, I know what happened. So I started pitching her for speaking engagements and I realized there was this whole world called public relations, which I hadn't heard of being an English major, being an English major. So I started researching what public relations professionals did. I literally went to Barnes & Nobles and bought PR for donkeys. And I sat in the Barnes & Nobles and I read the whole thing. I went into a PR firm to try to get a job. And I got a job. I started out as an account executive. Sorry. This is real life. Yeah. So I started as an account executive or an assistant account executive at a tech PR firm. And that's actually where I actually found my passion was doing marketing and PR for technology companies. I worked there for a while. I loved it. And eventually I was looking through LinkedIn and I said, well now that I have the agency experience, I want to look to see if I could work in-house as a PR manager. So I looked on LinkedIn and I saw a couple of job listings and one of them said content manager. But underneath the job listing, they had PR requirements. So I thought that was a little bit odd. But anyway, I sent them my resume. I went in for an interview and he's like, well, this is really content marketing position with a few PR tasks or donkeys. And I was like, what? I think you need a PR manager. Why don't you bring on both a content manager and a PR manager? And, you know, after negotiating over a few things, he finally agreed that we need both. So I became the PR manager of this software services company. And I love that too. And I eventually decided I wanted to start a family. So stepping out of that rat race was the right decision for me for a little while. So I started my own consulting firm with another woman. And we built up clients, technology clients. It worked for six years and that's where I'm now. So we'll be seeing. I took the least direct shot. But that's why your career is going to be very interesting. Other side of the coin. Exactly. That's a topic. It's to see everybody. So I started, I went, as I mentioned, went to Cornell to the hotel school. There was no Liz and I are actually, or professor, as I should say, are actually college roommates. So we went into there for a long time. But I ended up at Cornell. I pretty much was looking under graduate business programs and kind of stumbled upon the hotel school and the more I learned about it, I was like, this is the cool industry. It just fit me. So my experience in college was very much a management background. I don't know if we had specialties in the hospitality industry. I got in with Marriott to do a summer internship as a junior. And I kind of never looked back. So I interned with Marriott in two summers during college. I was hired my senior year. And I've been with Marriott for 17 years. So if you would ask me back then, if I'd ever be with a company that long, especially in our generation, you don't hear that very often anymore. But I've been very blessed. The hotel is grown. The company has grown and changed, you know, tremendous amount over the years. And I've had a lot of different roles in the organization. And I see that every year as a leave. So it's really a company that takes great care of their employees. And, you know, I've always been in the role of sales. I have been kind of every different discipline of sales. But that's just where my passion is. I started on property. I've worked, you know, I did a lot of the sort of social catering side of things for business. I did city-wide sales with our big, like, annual conventions, came with the convention centers. You know, working closely with the cities to get business to come their way. I've done a lot of account management positions throughout the years and kind of being that central point of contact with Marriott. And then I went into the world of leadership for a few years. And we said I wanted to be a leader. I learned a lot. I kind of realized where some parts of leadership that I liked and certain parts of leadership that I didn't like so much. And, you know, same as Jenny, I have two little kids. And so the flexibility to work remote and to travel a lot on the road a lot. But I stepped out of leadership a few years ago to put the job on our global sales organization, which was a position that, you know, as a new leader in Marriott, was like, oh, I can never get to that team. So it was pretty awesome when I was able to get a role. I actually took over for someone who retired who had been in the job for 18 years. So we really do have to be patient and wait for positions sometimes. But so now, as I mentioned, I manage about 55 or 60 accounts. And really my day-to-day is managing relationships. It's a long-term sale. It's a long-term partnership. But I spent a lot of time just finding opportunities to stay in front of my customers and be their advocate. And I play that middleman between the hotels and the client. I'd like to say that everything always goes right, but it doesn't. And I spent a lot of my time putting out fires for lack of a better word. But, you know, again, it's the loyalty, it's the relationship we're in for the long haul. So that's kind of my world now. And, you know, I think it's a blessing to come. So thank you for having us. Thank you for sharing your courage with us. So maybe I have a couple of questions to ask before you go to the center. Sure. So the first question, is there something you wish you would have known before entering workforce? I accept that. Sure. Yeah, I'll jump in. We got these questions ahead of time. So it's a good chance to thank you for that. But I think the one thing that came to mind for me is, I think when you're fresh starting out, it would have been nice for someone to kind of say, you know what, it's okay to make a mistake. It's okay to, like, take a leap and fail. You know, I think when you're first starting out, you're just so, you're building that reputation and kind of your reception with everybody. You just want to be perfect to follow the rules and do everything. And I think because of that, you don't necessarily go for certain opportunities. And, you know, I think over the years, there's been things that I'm like, I'm probably not ready for that. And so, but the times that I have taken a leap have been my greatest, and had the greatest impact on my career. Because I got to work for somebody that was just a cargo mentor or developed a skill in an area that I never really realized was important, but it's rewarded me to get the next job. So I think to know that, like, you can try something and not be a hundred percent perfect at it. And I think on that same thing I've learned over the years, it's okay, you don't have to have an answer. You know, if you go in somewhere and customers asking you all these things, and you know, I think earlier in my career, I probably would make up an answer before I said I didn't know the answer. And I think that as I got further along, I think people, they want to work with people they trust and they don't do a good job. So it's okay. I can't know everything. So, you know, there's times where I go to an appointment and of course I, you know, I have the knowledge that I have, which in some cases is probably more impactful than others, but in some cases I'm like, you know, I don't have the answer to that question, but I'll get back to you. And then I do, in any way, I just have to make sure you follow through with those things. So, you know, I think those are some of the things that comes with time. I'm building off of that point, the risk, the risk thing. I think women in particular tend to be more of a risk inverse. We just second-guess ourselves when, like, say a job posting, we don't meet a hundred percent of the qualifications. Maybe we meet 50% or 60% or even the 80% and we're like, well, I don't meet this one, so I don't think I'm going to apply. Taking some risk is a good thing and will probably give you some of your best opportunities and your most memorable opportunities. I think knowing that and knowing that you tend to or have to be a woman, that I might tend to take a less risky, a bigger, less risky decision will kind of push me, being conscious of my bias, being pushed me in the other direction and saying, no, I really should try this and having a little bit more confidence in that decision. Just to piggyback off of that, faking to you make it is real. You can do that. It's okay to make it to you make it, but once you're not faking it anymore and you've made it, you have to acknowledge that yourself because that's something that happened to me. I was faking it until I made it. I mean, you heard my journey. I was faking it so much that when I finally did make it and I had the skills and I had the expertise that I still thought I was faking it. You guys probably know that as imposter syndrome, but imposter syndrome is real. It is real, yes. And so I think it's important to fake it until you make it to go for those job opportunities where you have 80% of the requirements. But it's also important that when you have made it to own that, and that's the way you rise to become a leader in the organization and you don't own that and let people know that they know how to do this stuff now, nobody's going to notice you. Nobody is going to find you. Don't wait for it to come to you. You have to do it yourself. Put yourself out there. I think it's important. Have some confidence in your ability to learn the skills that you might not have 100% grasp on. You might not know how to do something, but you can say, I learned really quick and I know I can pick that up really fast. They have this and this skill, and I can definitely do this. Just have some confidence. Well, I always used to say too that you take different jobs for different roles in your life. Sometimes you make a lot of room for whatever reason it is. But I always say that if you take an upward movement and it's not hard when you start, you probably didn't make a big enough jump. You need to challenge your brain or you need to, you know, for me, I think times where I knew it was time for me to go for another job was when I felt like learning was drastically dropped. And, you know, have that opportunity and, like, challenge brain or new skill, you know, whatever it might be. So I think that you want to push yourself to do that, because then again, it's just going to impact you for the time. Our next question is, what do you think is the most significant barrier to female education? I think that's a good answer. That's a good answer. That's a good answer. That's a good question. Exactly. Exactly. It's taking the risks. It's believing in yourself. It's being scared and still going for it. Feeling uncomfortable and still going for it. Like, this makes me very uncomfortable, but I am here. Yeah. So it is... And if you have to have that mentor, somebody help you through that or a friend, you know what I mean? But yeah, taking those chances. I think we are our worst energetics. Next question. Do you find it hard to achieve work-life balance in hundreds? You can't speak from the perspective of having kids. Well, I'm very fortunate I work from home. I travel probably once or twice a month, but I do my office, so I'm not on the road, my office is in the house. So it definitely helps, to have that work-life balance. My boys are 10 and 12, so constant activity, 1,000 things going on. There's a lot of distractions. There's another thing to work out. But for me, work-life balance isn't just being mom. I think taking care of yourself is also part of that. And I think very fortunately, because I do work from home, working out for me is very important. And that's always something that can quickly go out of your schedule. I schedule it, like in my day. It's blocked on my calendar, and Liz is laughing at me, because she knows my type A personality many, many years ago. But I do. I have to change it if something really important comes up, but if someone's like, oh, can we connect to 10? And I'm like, you know what, I'm going to spend class. I don't say, I don't tell them what to spend class, but I have it blocked, because I know a better person for going to that class. You know, I'm more effective. I'll come back, I'm dialing, I'm ready to go. So, you know, I think that with technology nowadays, the greatest part about that is that we can, because on school, schedule hours that would work. You know, I might dial in for an hour in the morning, take a break for an hour, get my kids off to school, and then dial back in. But I might be back on my laptop at nine o'clock at night, catch up on some of the things that I do for that hour every day. So, you know, I think that it's, you strike the balance, I'm in sales, so I have a number after I reach my end of the year. So, you know, I have an accountability factor, you know, very bottom line for me. And, you know, my bosses are really looking for me. You know, as long as I'm making that number, you know, I'm running my own little business for my own accounts. So, you know, no one's going to tell you, get up and go take a walk or do whatever or, you know, take care of yourself. You could sit in that desk for 10 hours and eat bad food and do all that kind of stuff. So, you know, it's a challenge, but I think to be able to be okay with the fact of taking care of yourself is important, is, you know, getting your job done. Because it will make you better. You'll call and say, you know, that's the sort of things that don't make you happier. You won't burn out as fast. So, you know, it's taken me, you know, over the years to use that, but I think it's definitely helping people to be more successful. I mean, I was going to say, I've been trying to get better at saying no to things. You know, I definitely schedule a workout time and things that I I'm a musician. I love to play music. And so I know that that needs to be more balanced as a person for me. So I like to have time to do that every day. And then I also, I just have to, even though it sounds really exciting, sometimes I have to say no, because I know for my well-being and my time, then it's just not going to happen, even though I really want to do it. I'm going to go back to your previous question, that flexibility is awesome, but sometimes it does hurt you. Especially when I, when I was, when I had my first son, I wanted flexibility so badly that I did stop going up the ladder, in a sense. Like I stepped out of the the world and I started my own consulting firm, but it is definitely a little different when you're on the outside than on the inside. And I think that that one for flexibility also kind of stalls you a little bit. And you should watch out for it because you don't, just like, just like Betsy said, I mean, you can still have flexibility. You shouldn't think you can't have flexibility before you've even asked like that assumption will hold you back. Because you know, you can leave at a certain time if after you put your kids to bed you get back on, right? And you answer the few emails you need to answer. You can't go to the gym. You know, actually I was laughing at Professor Goldway and I go to this gym class and sometimes we see this woman on a conference call and she's literally literally listening and then all of a sudden just excuse me, she puts her barbell down she goes outside and she answers. And she comes back in. I saw a woman with a laptop on her step just like making sure she was, you know, so I mean you can do it and you just have to be a little more creative but you don't have to stop. You also have to burn it too I think that's the other good thing is that you know you don't get that day one of walking through my job. That's true. You need to know that like you have to you have to earn your place you have to know that you're a good worker I didn't get to work from home in the first year I worked for Mariah and I worked in the hotels for many years and created those relationships and our world has changed a lot, technology has changed a little bit you know to allow us to do these things but you know because you're not in front of your boss every day you have to find other ways for that to know you're doing a good job and it's self-promotion it's you know you need to be able to say you know because if I did like this huge sale I just had remember it might be because it's um you know because of the you lose that personal connection to something great you have to do other things so you know I agree I think it's you have to find other ways to maintain that but you know I think you just need to do a good job and then then ask the question you know can I work at home one day a week or can I leave at 3 o'clock because I'm playing a soccer or a league and I really wanted to be so you don't need just because you have kids I mean it could be for music or fashion whatever it might be you know everybody's life is important to what are the reasons it's important to you for an expressionist who are your biggest female inspirations and obviously I kind of have two answers for that I'm kind of a the corny my mom she's a business owner she's a woman she's got a woman on business but she has had the entire time I've been alive pretty much and my dad stayed home with us a lot so she's been a great role model as far as empowering me to take charge of my career and figuring out what my passions are so she's always been my role model but I just got back from a great conference Society of Women Engineers with a group of 11 students and I just found it so inspiring to be in a group typically when I go to conferences just to give you a picture I look around there are 100 people and there are maybe 3 females in the room under the age of 50 and so you stand out like a sore thumb you stand out you just can't help it and I got back from this conference or at this conference I'm looking around and there's 12,000 women at this conference all engineers and I was like wow this is just so inspiring like I feel so inspired just sitting in a room that I am all sorts of generations and you know all these different career paths but are managing you know lots of different things in their lives they're excited about their jobs in the engineering and they've also got families you know their work-life balance so I'm inspired by that by other women yeah I kind of you know I feel like Cheryl Sandberg nailed it but my biggest female inspiration is my grandmother she emigrated from Cuba in the 60s and taught about taking risks took her whole family to the United States to you know have a matter of life and she worked when women didn't work and she she rose when women didn't rise and she fought for herself and she fought for her family and I I think when I started thinking about it I was like you know strong confident women in general but the ones that also find a way to like have a little bit of grace you know we all have stereotypical females that rise to the top and you know kind of have this hard exterior shell about them and my team kind of rags on me sometimes just sort of a little warm and fuzzy but you know it's like you don't have to be you can be a genuinely good nice person you can care about the people that work for you you know you've worked for all sorts of different leaders over the years and I think you take a lot from your different bosses either what you don't want to be or what you do want to be and you know I think about women and I you know follow through my rats they're the ones that like get a human element as well you know don't be wrong they have the difficult conversations they'll tell you when you're out of line you know they'll push you in certain areas but you know where is there the thing about who who is that like who I think of like in the world I think like Michelle Obama like I've always just thought she was regardless of who your political affiliations are just a cool lady you know like really powerful like presents herself really well clearly has a really great family situation and the other one that came to mind was Robert and Super North America just somebody that really cares about who they are but they seem that was kind of funny so I can be honest I faced a big setback when I announced that I was pregnant I was almost immediately demoted and somebody was hired above me even though I started the company with these gentlemen and basically 10 people on one table and it grew to 250 350 people so it was a hard one but the way that I dealt with it is I said well you're not going to promote me I'm going to promote myself and I started my own company and it turns out that that was the best thing I ever did because I did give myself more flexibility and it did allow me to be around more I've been doing it for six years and it's it's been lucrative business it's been booming business I've grown a lot and I've learned a lot but it was definitely I was pushed into a pit by my situation but I think that the lesson here again is not to wait for it to come to you I could have stayed in that company and watched somebody rise above me but instead I chose to seek out another opportunity myself and I think that is how you keep rising that's how we're going to get more women leaders in the world is not to be stagnated by the fact that somebody doesn't agree with your choice of time but to keep going so I think that's been my biggest challenge so far in my career so yeah I could think too about four years ago I went for a job on the sales team the role that I'm in now and you know never prepared harder for an interview ultimately didn't get the job I made it to the final rounds to get a job and you know there's been a lot of jobs over the years I haven't got but again that also speaks to opportunities that maybe you know maybe was rich in order it might be and you know the thing that I took away from it was I really I spent time with the interviewer afterwards and why you know what was it about the other person or what was it about me missing or that feedback is so incredibly valuable you know they sent to me you know a lot of leadership experience and so what I do I went got a leadership job and you know they shared a few other things with me and so I went I went to the lead and I went back to the office I was a huge George from over eight years which kind of rocked my world but you figure it out and and I did this job for a couple of years and as part of that I got nominated to be part of this Emerging Leaders Program there I had they gave me a ton of exposure and they were challenged to move those people through the organization so they had an incentive to get us you know promoted along and had I never not gotten that job I never would have gotten into this Emerging Leaders Program I'd gotten exposure from people and ultimately it was a great advice to the person before and actually I think I was much better prepared for the job the second time around because I'd been a leadership job I had the opportunity to have those difficult conversations worked a lot stakeholders you know the accounts that I handle are our top accounts company their expectations are really high and when we screw up like it's big deal sort of a whole two million dollar accounts so anyways what do you talk to in any corporate America so long for jobs we have not you know I don't think it's necessarily that you're not the right person it's just somebody else who's a little bit better so kind of going a lot with what was said before about risk when taking risks comes a lot of failures so you know there are a lot of little failures all the time that happened for me I'm trying to apply for jobs or a player sending out so you submit a journal article to get reviewed and you get rejected and I remember the first rejection I got so personally I was like so upset about it you know like they fatigue it they read all the comments of what was wrong and the logic you know like I just spent three years writing this paper and then it was torn apart but the more you get used to it you take the things from it and make it better so you take the criticism and learn from the criticism and it changes and make it even better and you just can with it you can't get walked down with taking it personally or not being afraid to take the risk in the first place from your rejection it's just going to have it over and over again or so then success is the last ten years and I it's ten years okay I guess I can go I had a well someone who's been in my class to give me a critique of my class some criticisms of my class and so that's something that happens a lot that being a teacher and what I like to do whenever I get criticism that's just one example could be a journal article could be something else I you know try to listen to it try to just be open and accept all the things that have been better said even that if you might disagree with something I spend a lot of time writing things down I keep a journal so I find it really helpful for me processing to write down criticisms I kind of sort through them and I end up kind of coming to conclusions about them and figuring out what are the tangible things that I can actually do forward so writing for me helps me process which I think when I was a leader for a number of years we used to do these 360 reviews and you would get a leader a peer a number of peers who would report on you it's pretty daunting to get a report on yourself when you know what you're good at I mean there's no real major surprise when you're good at what you need to work on but we see it in the curriculum because it's officially in this case and you know I think that I've learned over the years that like you cannot be good at everything you know I was in this leadership job and you know I consider it to be a great self-person you know a mentor strategizer there's a lot of financial stuff for me I don't mind if I marry one of those but you know so the thing that I've learned over the years where do you find some new complementive skills so you know and I found that you know I had a peer in my last role that was a leader of another team and that was like her forte and I would sit with her and I'd be like can you just help me like I had a really hard time like to add a storytelling you know like taking an Excel worksheet figuring out how to like stand up in a way that was comfortable I could think until I make it you know talking about other things and whatever but that was an area where I really struggled and she really helped me I mean we would go through presentations together at a time we would do those sorts of things and so you know I think that you know taking critique is really important but there's certain areas you're only going to get so good at you know you have to be okay with that you know you may you can take public speaking classes you can get better at it it still may never feel comfortable to you so I think that you know if there's an opportunity for you to surround yourself with people who can compliment those skills I think that that's where you get most successful because you know ultimately you know I could spend so much time on those things and yeah I could take my way through it and probably do okay but somebody else is going to do it better that's kind of what I think first and that's an attribute of a good leader right knowing who does it better and holding on and being fine then yeah let them get the recognition for its fine so I guess when you're in business but Santa really you can spot you know but I can't remember I can't remember a time in agency agency peer agencies can be slightly brutal and you really get some thick skin but I remember kind of coming in and so I come from a Cuban family very loud and boisterous and joking a lot and sometimes that doesn't really fit in with the culture or or or where you're misunderstood a lot so I think that was my first critique was you know you are you don't know it but you're hurting somebody's feelings and and it was a tough one for me because of course that wasn't my intention but I definitely had to tone down a little bit and you know I don't even resent saying this it's not you're not toning down your culture but you're knowing your audience you know you've got to know your audience and you know you can go back home and be that person and be you know you like to make fun of each other that's not great I found out so so you know know your audience you know you're in New England you're in the workplace it's totally different than when you're in Miami in the workplace apparently and it's a but you know what I know it's nice it's one of the transition you know but you know the more you learn who your audience is and you know how to speak to them if you that's how you accomplish your goals that's how you get things done if you're speaking a different language even if you're speaking the same language you know you're misunderstood just communication is lost so I would just counsel everybody to know what you're talking to them the last question I have is what advice would you give me on going to law school 164 find the find multiple mentors people at all sorts of tasks on their of their careers and you know different experiences in their careers and also your peers in degree mentors you know I've got like 10 different mentors just people I go to for various things some people are better at certain things than others or some people give free advice about X and not Y so that's my advice find people and they could be meant for me because there's not a lot there's not a lot of women in this person especially a lot of women but I find that too it's hard for me to say it's my inspiration when I'm I would say just you know go for it if you want something go for it support it with the work that you've already done you know when you go into your interviews show them what you can do your skills sometimes bring something you know you can show them don't hold back you know take risks you're going to fail but one day you're going to succeed and all those failures are going to be worth it I just think be willing to get your hands dirty you know I think that you just you got to get in there and just do it you know I think that I remember coming out of college and certain people I don't want that job I'm just graduating from college you know sometimes you got to take that entry level position just to get into a company you know for six months or a year remember that may seem like so long but it's a flip button right I'm just going to look at your career and you know sometimes you just need to get the foot in the door and you guys have all heard that before but it really is the case and as soon as they see oh this person's really good the work ethic is great whatever you know be okay to take something you know it might seem like it's slightly bit easier but you know I turn to any executive company he also started as Bellman or line cook but I think to have perspective and different aspects of your industry is really important too so you know like for my world like I have sales majority of my career like my whole career but I have dabbled in other areas and I think you appreciate you know like how it's telling you it's cobs and wheel and it's just if one thing's not working well the overall service experience where the gas is going to it's going to rip down so you know I always say you know being within your industry or you know opportunities to build new skills know what you're weak at or have fine opportunities to tweak it to make it better so you know I think that those are you know in the beginning you just kind of be like opportunities Thank you so much for answering our questions Hopefully you guys watch where somebody is I'm going to play back so I think we want to open it up to questions from the audience I don't have any questions for the panelists so many of them have questions Jenny Do you guys wish that you guys had the four female mentors like in your careers like that you'll eventually mentor people as well as your friends Yeah I'm sort of unique because the house of talent industry is surrounded by them although ironically though in Marriott still our highest level you know sea level you know primarily now so I've had a lot of strong women leaders that I can but it's been it's been great now like you know doing what we're doing finally being able to kind of give back you know starting to be able to help other people on their journey I don't feel like it's been that long since we started but I guess years are going by quickly so yeah I mean I think it's really gratifying to be able to give back because there were a lot of people that helped me all the way and I think that those things are super important yeah I don't I don't have any women leaders that I can actually say like can you help me or I mean I haven't run into that yet that's why I find Cheryl Sandberg so awesome she's a CO Facebook you know she's I felt like I was looking into a mirror when I read her book because it just did feel that way it never felt like I had somebody well I'd be like there are good men mentors I mean there are and you shouldn't shy away from that find your different perspectives yeah exactly and sometimes they can help you even more in our careers so you never know but yeah I wish there were more I hope to be one day yeah I definitely definitely wish there were more it was kind of a shock to me actually getting out of my undergraduate degree and getting more into the further along you get in your field in engineering and probably in other disciplines the women kind of drop out and so going to a conference in a room of of you know three women a group of 100 and you have this feeling like do I even belong here you know even though you think you do but you know subconsciously you're surrounded by all the people that don't look like you and so definitely the width the older women and the women that have more experience they tend to get all the women without coming into the work for us because they see this is one person that I can go to with these things so they've got that kind of burden on them because they're like the one mentor for all these these 20 women that just showed up there you're the token woman you're the token woman you're the token woman but hopefully that changes you know the the population of women in tech is growing slowly you know if we keep them there then they'll be there for generations coming up so yes I do wish there were more but you make the best of it and you try to you try to stick it out and use your peers to have support other questions Fred so talk about like the diversity of someone who faced the workplace because of the class the other now we talk a lot about can you just talk a little about some of the diversity you've faced of your past being a woman in the workplace yeah yeah well I think my path has definitely been a labyrinth it's and it's funny because I can I agree there's not a glass ceiling I think you can get there but to get there it is not a straight path the career path's totally different yeah it's different needs and you want to fulfill those needs like flexibility so you jump out and then you jump back in and I mean there's there's a it is achievable for sure but it is not a straight path my big thing I learned over the years too is don't assume what people think of you so you know I was a mom with two little kids and a lot of people were like you know she's happy where she is you know she's content let's let her grow an autopilot for a while and don't be wrong there were times in my career where I absolutely was contented to be an autopilot and because I had so many things going on personally but if you don't you know perceptions reality right so I made sure that I still was sharing with my leaders you know what I'm interested in getting here I want to do this I want to work on these things because I think there were a lot of male leaders probably all you just say male there were leaders who just made assumptions about me because I was a mom and that was an area where I mentioned you know I mentioned that if I didn't say those things I wouldn't even have thought of for certain promotions so you do have to raise your hands you know you do have to sort of fight your own fight I think you said it earlier no one's going to come to you with the perfect opportunity like you have to create your opportunity like even that leadership job that I took I was like you know what I'll come back in the city I was like I can't do it five days a week and I negotiated and I'm like can I work home two days a week can I do something different you know can I just relax just a little bit so you know I think again you have to raise your hand and you have to fight for yourself and sometimes women have to do it a little bit more than men so other questions I have a question yes so in class and then you referenced anyone she talks a lot about is the role of city or a partner so can you talk a little bit about the influence that you've received your partners have had on your career journey in any way shape or form you know I know for engineering it's very typical that women engineers are also married to other engineers I don't know how that happens and I think that your partner in your relationship in your relationship or you know whoever you're with it's really important that both people if the woman is trying to you know rise up and they'll be your position and further her career that the partner is equally supportive of that you work as a as a team unit and I can't say enough about you know my husband being super supportive there's compromises there if your partner is not is not supportive then it's going to make it a lot more challenging so it's good to put a lot of thought into that person yeah we were talking about this earlier saying like you know one thing my husband my husband's in a financial world so he's in that rat race you know he's been in a forever you know it's only for now but he worked for a lot of big banks he was the one who would be like why are you asking for money for money for things as he came from that world you know so there were times when he was a really good reality check for me which was great and then I think there were times when we were like we can make this work there's no way I take this job we're going to be able to handle kids or you know life or whatever and he'd be like figure it out like we have to hire somebody or we have to do whatever you know we're going to do a link comes we can make it work so I think it was like the voice of reason sometimes I tell somebody just levels that yeah so yeah and I mean it comes out to logistics sometimes like you go to work at 6am you know so I'll take care of the kids I'll do breakfast you do dinner you know so that I mean it works out for us because most of my clients are in Silicon Valley so they don't wake up until what like you and here so I take the morning and work till 8 and he takes the evening but if you don't have that help it's um it yeah you need somebody to be there for you to support you I love your examples of him telling you to go for it because my husband does the same things like why are you so big about this like just say yes so I think I know you're right you know it is helpful to have that voice because so often we question ourselves but it's also helpful tactically and logistically to get stuff done you know and sometimes if you like ships crossing in the night that's another whole question about flights till 8 you're a small plant gonna blow up exactly but really a partner is important and actually you don't have kids sorry kids I should have said that yeah dog takes more attention than kids do some days yeah anybody else and yeah Josh one question we talk about a lot first of all these classes how do we achieve equal representation of women especially in the government and see the whole street like you mentioned important or around women in the industry and see the whole street you still see a lot higher representation of men so are there anything that you guys think maybe you're just like fields to help representation of women yeah we know there's this this leadership divide and you know excuse me if that's the point about around a lot of women and at various levels but when you look at these we take mayor out and we look at top people and it's the most male competition so what are some practical things how do we what are some actual tangible things that we can talk about just in practice and what practices implemented whether they need organizational practices or macro societal practices to help achieve more parity how do you make those students I think first up when you said women conferences and mayor at once is really leadership conference every year it's just about women it's like you know we are the opportunities or how do we drive it home so I think the board will be magnified that there is that is that is an issue I mean eventually those C level people in their retirement next generation is going to come in right so you know the board that we talk about and we push people and create those right mentors it's like that I think just for the longest time that was just the way we did things and so I think that and I know for me being able to watch some of these being part of something like leadership like I'm first sure for you you know women in engineering you know that power so and I don't know if I know exactly what the answer is but you know I think that we are much more aware of it than we ever were before I'm going to say it's like the answer for that because if anything else is there so I think peers you mentioned peers peer mentoring groups peer peer to peer has been shown to be very effective to have groups that are kind of the same maybe that entered in at the same time or similar times to be able to meet and talk to one another and kind of troubleshoot things in the workplace together has been shown to be very effective and even having peer or not peer up like mentors that are leadership positions can also help so kind of both of those cross and then have been trying to be really effective also I think policies just like parental leave policies for example is a really big one I don't have kids but I I see that to companies that have the parental leave policies where both the men and the women can take time off for family reasons makes it a little bit more of a level playing field because then you know also taking time away from the job too and you know the women have to take time away from the job but I think that's effective too policies I just I wonder how we get rid of the stigma of having a child and thinking that that woman will no longer be so effective yeah except that still I don't think that's true it still it still exists I when I had my second when I had my daughter company and she was home with me and after two weeks I just I was kind of bored honestly and I was like I'm just going to start working like I'm bored so after two weeks she's home with me I'm still taking care of her playing with her but I'm also using my brain and getting something done you know people don't know about that like people don't know about that stuff that actually some women do want to keep doing something on the side or you know some women don't I just that stigma if there is some way to erase it because it really isn't true I mean a lot of women have been at least want to go back to work it's very right yeah love my kids I hope to have a better mother because I can work with them yeah I mean isn't there a stat that women in the 70s who stayed at home spend the same amount of time with their kids as we do working working mothers today working mothers today working mothers today working mothers didn't in the 70s exactly when I watch how much you know my oldest is 12 middle school and you know he started asking a lot of questions about what I do and you know it's kind of dialed in and it's been pretty cool to like watch him like you know I'll sign doing contracts you know you know where are you to goal he's you know it's cool I think there's a lot I'd great to see that when we start to rise up to different ranks because you know There's certain things that men do really well and there's certain things that women do really well And even those two characters both need to be in a C-suite For a company ultimately to be successful. I thought of companies are more successful when they have both. Yeah I thought of one more thing too Because it's really into kind of my husband and and I guess this hasn't really been touched on But what is men's role in in this so I see a lot of head in the audience And my husband, you know, I talked to him a lot about women's issues and you know Some sort of place just I'm really interested in it But because of that he has become more aware of things that happen in the workplace And so when you know an instance does come up, you know in the conference room where somebody says something that might be a Little bit inappropriate or someone doesn't get promoted. He recognizes it and he sees it being you know on the on the younger end of the employees Can you know when he's transitioning into management positions can help you that change help cause some of those things So there are there are generational differences. I think Advocating advocating for the changes that you want to see both men and women So my husband It's also very conscious of some of these gender issues that are going on in organizations probably You know, but there was an example where he said he was asked to speak on now and You know, he got the list of the the folks that they had invited to speak on the panel and he This isn't representative of technology. This isn't representative of our industry. I mean, this is this is You know, this is this is all you could find And he ended up speaking on the panel with three women and he was psyched and he tweeted about it And he was like, they were awesome and it was fantastic but You know, I'll give him a shout out and that he recognized that and he took an action and so for things to change and say You know, I think you need more like bullies in the world but So I think it's those sorts of things, you know And I think when we look at you know men in this generation and you're talking about these issues now And you're thinking about these issues now and that's gonna change You know, that's gonna change how you approach things so that you know, even I'm gonna I'm gonna call out Luke, right? I'll close the you know your job this summer You came into our class and you had been talking all summer with with a woman who was talking about these issues with you And so they were salient in your mind and so you had questions and you had You know an experience to share about and now you're thinking about that as you move into the workplace and other people You know that have had very strong, you know, Rhett Josh You guys have had very strong role models in your mom that have had very strong careers and and that shaped your influence So, you know, I think I think that's something to change ultimately when You all start to take on leadership roles anybody else All right, well, thank you very much