 Really we've ramped that up since about 2008 or nine before my time there is that there is no one-size-fits-all accessibility is not clearly a Threshold you cross and now you're there and you're done. It's always a work in progress, and it always involves Talking with and responding to the needs of individuals. So the fact that we welcome and host in the community space 55 to 60 individuals each month It's a hospitality industry. And so in some ways We're all about needing to serve the needs of the artists who come here. So Yeah, I mean that's a short answer Something that just occurred to me is what month were you in Vermont October? Actually, it was like 80 degrees one day and then The rest of the day it was kind of chilly So um Ryan my question for you is As an organization how has hosting the creative access fellows impacted the Vermont studio center Yeah, it's helped to enrich the mission the founding mission of the studio center is to be an inclusive International community and so this just gets right to the heart of the inclusivity aspect of that And there's no one creative access is just sort of a term we've we've used to Name a lot of programs and we've had residency fellowships for artists and writers who are blind or have visual impairment those who are deaf or have heart or heart of hearing and Folks who are have spinal cord injury or we had a previous partnership with the Christopher Reeve foundation There was more broadly for artists who use wheelchairs. So It wasn't really limited to people who had a specific injury, but could have spinal conditions diseases So it's really it's been enlightening. It helps us in all aspects of what we do because like I said fundamentally a residency experience is a Kind of hospitality experience you're being welcomed. You're taking a risk no matter who you are you're leaving behind all of your regular support systems you're Making deals with your partner your spouse your children your family your pets Maybe your employers to come away From the routine of your own studio in your home and doing what that that creative practice that you do in private You're doing it then It's not exactly public, but you're you're taking that and coming to a new place with 55 other people and Practicing in a shared space. So there's some risk involved and we're it's just it's thrilling to See that every month and it's really rejuvenating for the staff. We're all artists and writers as well. That's how I came to be Development director and writing program director at the studio center was I'm a poet and I went there one frigid January And spent the month writing and thought it was just the greatest experience I've ever had so Yes, it helps us in all that we do and it especially strengthens our mission. I think something that they do really well there, too, is when I was asking for feedback from us, which was really nice to know that You know what they were implementing and doing was based off of the actual people that were benefiting benefiting from it So it's it was really nice to be asked like what I needed and how did we how are we doing? How could we do better? so Many artists I talked to Who go to residencies what they value is being part of a community of artists dedicated to art and I've Often found that artists with disabilities can often feel isolated and not part of a community And so my question for you, and this is my fun question is how has Being welcomed into this community changed your art It has made it a little more focused and kind of Realized where I could go with it like I said, I had been playing around with a lot of different mediums and Types of ways of creating art, but I had the experience of having to share my work and A slide presentation and it really made me think about the work that I had done in the past and Where I was and what I wanted to where I wanted to go in the future and where I wanted to go with it and I think in the past I looked at my art as something separate then My work as well. Like I said, I run this nonprofit and when I started the nonprofit I thought okay, I'm gonna be Doing this the nonprofit management and I won't have time for the art And it was something really scary for me because I was like if I'm if I'm gonna Do this I'm not gonna have time for it and I don't think I want that to be the case so Being at this residency I was able to realize that I'm doing a lot of art Related things through the nonprofit for awareness and I started seeing the component of like social justice and what What an impact that could do And so I'm I've sort of started to merge my art with what I want to say and what I want to share with the world and not Not thinking of it as I'm painting a pretty picture or I'm taking this Interesting photograph and now it's like what do I want to say with it and really the power that it has Wow Okay, so Brian I'm asking you to take off your arts administrator hat and put on your poet hat How has working with artists with disabilities changed your work? It's a great question. I had some time to think about it now It's really strengthened my discipline. I'm not someone who shows up at the desk every morning and writes for a certain amount of time Easily, so it's it's that's something that I struggle with And and seeing artists really just everybody who comes to the studio center, but people I get to know better I'm always inspired by not just the work they make and how they carry themselves and who they are But just the fact that they are putting so much aside to put this forward and put it primarily in their lives Like to be the artist to be the writer and so I'm just thinking of one writer in particular this this guy Manny who came to the studio center in 2013 and Had had been an engineer and due to usher syndrome had Was blind and also had deafness and and he Had been toying with poetry for a while and really found like okay if I'm ever really going to take myself seriously as a writer I need to do something like this It's transformed his life. He he went from from there To an MFA program and just finished that that's this past May And we've been in touch ever since he was there in 2013 and just his his dedication His choice to be a writer Inspired me to like get to the desk more frequently to do the writing and when I'm not writing to be reading poetry So that's just one personal anecdote of many So I'm not an artist But I work with a lot of artists and I have a lot of artists who are friends And I've noticed that oftentimes the deepest connection that artists have with each other is the artist to artist connection Like there is a moment when people connect sort of it I swear it's like when Voldemort and Harry Potter's wands connect and there's this arc of light that goes across and Then something happens and everybody kind of goes from here to whoa here with their work because there's a Conversation a concept a light bulb goes off and what I'm wondering whether or not you've experienced that Whether you've had that at the studio center at all or have had it since Yeah, it did happen there. Um, I Went well one of the things that I remember and really Thought was one of the best things was when I was there Usually when I go somewhere, there's people ask you like What happened to you or how are you injured and that question always comes up? But I was there for about three or four days and nobody asked me that and all the conversations that we had We're around art and what are you working on today and? What what kind of materials are you using and how did that go and so it was all art and it was so refreshing to To not have that question come up I mean even though I don't mind it and actually when it did come up I brought it up myself because it was related to to my work But yeah, I mean I we I was able to you know meet other artists and talk about what we were doing and actually one day This is a funny funny way of happening, but the person in the studio next to my mind Turned out to be a personal care attendant for this woman and He was there for a month and I would we just started talking about personal care attendants and stuff like that and then one day when I was really cold and I got I Just needed to like move around and my body needed to stretch My care attendant that came with me is actually a yoga instructor as well so we we just decided to do yoga in the studio and we got on the floor and We knocked on the door on the wall and we're like, hey, can you come over and help me transfer onto the floor? and we ended up just taking a series of photographs this was totally not planned but The the walls were all white and we just did a series of photographs of me It started off doing yoga and then we looked at the photographs and they looked really weird like in just different shapes And it didn't even look like a body anymore. And so I was like, okay, this is like started making me think about body image and Nothing came of the photos yet, but it's gotten me to think about body image and photography and Disability and so who am I keep in touch still? So Ryan have you seen those Voldemort Harry moments That's what that's okay. Me there for five years. I loved it It happens. Yeah, you get this many people from again all walks of life and all over the world together Eating meals together Living in the same houses and then next door to each other in the studio is humming along in this hive activity Week after week. It's it's incredible. So those those connections do happen. That's how I I mean it's how I met my partner like she's a painter and we met there at the studio center And that's led us here to Pittsburgh So that happens all the time and and I think that just underscores The reason the inclusivity has always been in the mission for the past 32 years the studio center Which is just that the founding ideal is that creativity is this universal human endeavor, right? Like it's nothing that's not a secret and we've heard it before and I imagine they'll be repeated again It unifies us in that way Despite where we're coming from and in fact that enriches the fact that we're all coming from somewhere else. So That was always inspiring and real and felt And intense because then people leave on a Friday and then 55 more people show up on Sunday And we start again But yeah That just makes my head hurt Um So one of the things that I'm always curious about because I'm a geeky grant maker, too Is what happens afterwards? What is our long-term impact? So I know about the Vermont studio center because we do these professional development grants for individual artists in every single round Three times a year we get at least two people who are applying for funding to go to the Vermont studio center because it's such a sought-after residency and it means so much on people's Resumes My personal thinking is it takes a minimum of five years to really process residency? I mean, I think there's a lot that comes from it. So I want to ask you Rebecca. What? How long has it been a since you've been there and How do you think it's going to impact you long term? It's been two years. I went in October of 2014 yeah, that's two years and I Mentioned this earlier to you, but I when I got there I felt like a really big fraud like I was an artist Like I wasn't an artist and I didn't belong there and everyone else around me was doing all these great things And I probably you know, like how did they let me in here and but It has impacted me in a way that I don't feel like that much of a fraud anymore and I'm more comfortable Sharing my artwork I would didn't often share it I was able to be a part of a show and actually exhibit my work November of last year which was really cool and I'm working on another one for this coming up this year and trying to Just get my artwork out there and I like I said, it's made it's made me more comfortable with Identifying myself as an artist and and sharing my work All right, so Brian you have to put this in contents because of every one who comes for a residency Right well we we do have exit interviews and then we also with particularly, you know funded programs like the creative access program from the Craig Nielsen foundation we we do follow up in fact we I reached out to Rebecca and others this year To see where they were and what they've been up to in the past couple of years So that we could report in terms of long-term impact Lots of gallery shows lots of readings and lots of those connections that happen By meeting other artists it doesn't really manifest until months or years later that suddenly oh This person I met at the studio center. They have a gallery in Houston and now I will have a show down there That kind of thing happens all the time We're also invested in just the long-term Betterment of the field of artist residencies and so we've been working with the Alliance of Artists communities, which is the Wonderful umbrella organization that most all of the several hundred of residencies in the US belong to to determine To kind of set thanks to artists who give us the feedback and have the the firsthand experience Just what are best practices for the field? It's something the Alliance is taking really seriously and but hasn't yet had the capacity to to undertake Just understanding and assessing what's out there in terms of which residencies are accessible And so that's really taking shape rather quickly Thanks to this consortium that we we started last year So I'm going to point something out here Artists in this room any artist generally can go online to the Alliance for artist communities and look up residencies but there are Three arts residencies and these creative access residencies and there's a deaf artist residency So there's like 10 Where they specifically welcome people with disabilities, right? So if you take the thousands of artists residencies that are available and you think of the ones that are advertising themselves as Welcoming to artists with disabilities your opportunities as an artist with a disability are far fewer than otherwise So I'm just pointing that out to everyone in this room And I am also pointing out our opportunity for advocacy with the Alliance for artists communities Just keep that in your heads action step post-it note So Rebecca what what do you want the Alliance for artist communities to do? To increase the number of opportunities for people with disabilities. Do you have any okay? I'm putting you really on the spot because that's a big deep question But um you strike me as a person who's probably given it some thoughts. I think I would like Questions to be asked on What do you need and how can we include you in our programs and in our? Residencies or you know and in anything really But being asked and being included and being able to participate in that process of What would make make it inclusive? I think it's really important to be included and have that voice and and really These decisions not to be taken without without us Yeah, I definitely echo that we everything we've learned at the studio center about accessibility in terms of the campus itself Has come from artists So I'd say put out an open call that is part of the plan. I believe to just invite input from artists but I think also Finding ways to pool resources Because I think we've we've at least encountered at VSC that the success comes best when there's not just the Accessible campus in the facility, but also the the programming the fact that there's a fellowship So that the whole experience is paid for plus travel plus a stipend plus bringing your personal assistant if need be And yes the campus like we'll have a studio in a house that's that will work for you And I think that there are a number of residencies that have the accessible Facilities, but maybe non accessible to so many of us cost or other other obstacles And so I think that there's a way in which I think I'm excited about this consortium that we have started And will continue and grow is that the Alliance can then really see And find ways to leverage funding that really makes that Residency cost part go away For artists and take away that obstacle Yeah, it helps a lot So, you know we have at lead and forever we say that The ADA is the floor Right, that is where you must be but that Covers effective communication and everything like that But what you want is you want to be welcoming Right in a way that any artist Can come in and it doesn't matter who or what they are they are treated like every other artist and they Interact with their surroundings and the people there as everyone else would So we were talking earlier about when you came back when you were there You gathered information for other artists to make their transition easier, correct And then you went on to share it because I don't know if how many of you know this but there is a really tight network of Artists with disabilities and information flies across those networks so fast that They are your best asset just so you know and Christine is the hub for performers just so you know So could you tell us a little bit about what you did while you were there to gather the information? Yes while I was there I Took a lot of pictures and I Decided to make a video make take videos of basically a lot of stuff I mean I didn't initially know what I was going to use it for but I knew that I would need it someday so I had my PA pretty much follow me around with my phone and record me getting into the studio the handles on the on each of the doors of the getting into my housing getting into the Dining area just everything everything I and From behind me, so it'd be you know my perspective and I just kept those videos and then The following year a friend of mine. I told her she should apply and She was nervous about the accessibility, so I sent her all the videos and she it was really helpful for her I think she was very relieved to be able to see those and see what What it would be like because she did have a lot of questions And she kept on asking me questions and I could see the nervousness in that in her questions I'm like you'll be fine. You'll be fine. And finally I just showed her all the videos and then she was like, oh, okay so so yeah And I should make sure that the studio center maybe gets that video from you To have to share if not to put on the website for all but at least you know as people have questions to share We have done a practice of putting artists in touch with each other When they when they say that that would be something helpful So I'm sorry that didn't happen in your case So you know we're talking about physical plant and things like accessibility But what I think makes a big difference for a lot of people it is the staff and the people and how When you show up You're just like everybody else So what do you want? How do you want people to train their staff? And what do you want to find when you go someplace like that? I think staff knowing a little bit about disability and cross-disability Knowledge is great, too But again going back to the asking questions individual questions on what exactly Is it you need to be successful during your fellowship? So would you prefer to have them ask you or would you prefer to be the one to start the conversation? I think it depends sometimes it's really nice to be asked because I was talking with my mom actually before coming here I'm like everything is such a fight all the time to get what you need and Sometimes it's a relief to just have someone say what do you need and it's like okay. Let me tell you what I need But yeah, I mean, I think it's also a responsibility of the artist to Be their own advocate and be able to tell people what is needed and how it is How they need things provided So that's the asking and speaking up. I want you to talk about the listening and implementing half That's really more than half. I think is the listening and implementing Yeah, I mean again the studio center sort of Found its way into this without like clear decisions and plans I think it was the matter of artists arriving before there were any program Who? You know say an artist who uses a chair and we'd have to figure out how to what do you need and how can we help you? I mean one example again going back to money Who is there a few years ago? He uses a cane to get around and you know curb edges and distinct zones where like grass ends and gravel begins are important, right? our campus is is sprawling and strange we occupy 30 plus buildings within this old village in Vermont Most of the buildings are repurposed and so it came to things like asking him There was no clear curb cut on the way from the dining hall and offices back to his Writing studio and home and so our plant director Jim McDowell sat down and asked me to talk with Manny and just said What would you need and then the listening involved like well just something that would you know Indicate where the parking lot ends because there's a large open parking lot, right? So to know where the open space Ends and the sidewalk begins and so they they work together and figured out a method of laying down hay bales that he could then feel so there was very temporary and one-person solution, but I think that's emblematic of a lot of what we've done so far in Making things work for each person and what they need Thankfully, there's also a strategic plan To renovate the campus over the next ten years with universal design in mind for each house and each studio So when there is an open studios night, which we do twice a month Where all the artists who feel like it open their doors and share? We won't be Disincluding anyone because currently the upstairs studios are mostly not accessible But within ten years they all will be so that's that's something to look forward to but in the meantime, it's it's completely about Listening empathy and the fact that that's that's what we do with the hospitality Environment and so we want everyone to feel comfortable and welcomed Taking action to I remember one one incident there was one of the One of the houses I needed to get into and there was just a little lip which I could have gotten over with just a push but Think Harlan was he just by that afternoon there was a ramp there and when I needed to be there at that time I was like Beaming with joy because there was a ramp there for me, but I could have done it But he he saw that there was that issue and he fixed it so wait So I want to break that down a little how did you contact him and say there's an issue? Or did he how did that actually another artist that noticed it and? was She went over and spoke up for me, which was nice. Okay, so that's why we love art, right? You know I mean I've worked in the disability advocacy field for quite a long time and that only happens in this community So be proud of yourselves It should happen everywhere, but it really happens here So I'm the one of the questions that I'm wondering about now is we're talking about two distinct phases of this process before and during right and so before I'm sensing that you kind of have a list of things that you want to know in your head You know what you need to know, right? But then there are a whole bunch of wild cards that happen during so I Guess my question is how do you what is the smoothest way that for that process because you want to be able to go to a Residency, I think and be your resident to be a resident to do your work to do your art and not have to spend your days advocating for yourself So how does the ideal process look for you? having someone that I know I could go to As a point person I think it makes it easier Although you know a lot of times it doesn't work that way but Having someone that you know could be your point person would is great Yeah So the person you know you call and and say hey, I have to go to the studio There's a lip. I'm gonna be there at three and then that person just magically takes care of it That's what I think okay, so from your end. How does that sound? That sounds great. I think that at least a VSC. It's the only context. I know Part of this comes to our housekeeping and maintenance crew because they're like the hands-on they check requests Throughout the day for everything from someone's window doesn't open to yes, there's this lip in the threshold could it be removed To we need another easel or the wall isn't flat enough. I'm trying to draw against the wall So we we have a system obviously it does need refined But I think Christine had mentioned earlier this need for a point person and how things get handed off and I think that's exactly how I found myself handling a lot of Accessibility issues at VSC is that I was the grants manager and of course because of funding and often federal funding like we just That person it makes sense to then Understand how accessibility works and doesn't work at an institution But we have point people for It just depends if it's a food issue. We have people in the kitchen if it's a 2d or a 3d studio need we have different staff. So I think VSC it's quite large. There's 30 staff to help accommodate the 55 people But it still feels like we don't quite get to everybody every day I think this is a way of maybe refining that to have a Single person who's just it's clear who you go to But because of all the the realms in which an artist might move through in a day I think there is some confusion and always Communication can can solve a lot of that but I hear that that need Question time. Oh Of course, it's Reagan Rebecca I'm curious about your work as an artist and Sometimes when I look at artwork where Disability is the subject. I feel like I can sometimes discern whether the work has been done by an artist who has a personal experience with disability or not and I'm curious about your perspective on that and whether you feel like you see Something that maybe people that don't have disabilities don't see and also Ryan your perspective of whether you see Something in Rebecca's work where other artists that try to capture the experience of disability without having the experience just don't quite hit the mark So you mean on my own personal work or if I see work by other disabled artists Yeah, well how you're I guess how you're When you're working and your own personal work, is there something maybe you feel like you're Capturing that other artists that don't have disabilities kind of miss Um, well, I think more it's obviously really like my personal experience. I can share in my art Well, for example, I I'm currently I'm working on a Series of photo recreations of different iconic works of art or images and history And it started off with me recreating an image of Frida Kahlo but inserting My wheelchair in all in all of her images me sitting in in my wheelchair so that my chair was like very prominent and after doing that I Was it's between me and two other artists and she's in a chair as well But we're like we could really do this with all sorts of images So we actually just finished up with doing the Last Supper Which everyone is a person with a disability like all different someone who's blind and Another person who's short stature and it was just awesome and We're gonna be doing Whistler's mother and what's the other one Rosie the Riveter with a woman who's an amputee so We're bringing like perspectives of Disability, but it's kind of in your face, but it's also in In a way that these are images that people recognize and that are in our brains like society's brains that Well, you know, you can look at it and then do like a double-take and say like oh well This is these are all people with disabilities. So I don't know if I answered your question, but I definitely think that, you know Disability is now prompt very prominent in my work But it's not always I guess in your face or It's subtle I think And that I like that Can I just say that you need to talk to the folks at the Andy Warhol Museum? because this to you know and I want to say that we have been talking a lot about disability in art, but I want to make it Extraordinarily clear that just because an artist has a disability does not mean their work has to be about disability Their art is art whatever they want to explore they can do Please keep that in mind. We don't want to shove people into a pigeonhole I'm glad you said that and I also I love I can see these in my head now and I love that I don't have expertise to to say looking at a piece of work if it was by Someone who has that personal first-hand Disability experience or or or not. I mean my world is writing and again I Would say we've seen a range right of like the 16 to 20 artists who have come through VSC in the last five years on this Nielsen grant supported program Gosh, maybe a third of people their work really speaks directly to disability, but Two-thirds it doesn't so I can remember I mean in essence part of the jurying probably part of the admissions process I'll also just say is just looking for excellent work of any stripe And so we hire out independent juries who are always looking at all work Totally blind first so they're seeing it Without name without any you know identifying marks at all. They're just assessing the work on artistic merit and excellence And so of the writers who I've gotten to know over the years One man was writing a memoir about the the person who shot him when he was a teenager And that resulted in a spinal cord injury But other in something you know another poet was writing about Her experiences of the MS, but others are just yeah writing about whatever they're they're writing Or making art that is just the thing that's inside them. They want to explore Oh Rebecca could you share your website if you've got one that said that we can I don't actually have one Okay, well, that's why I couldn't find it when I just tried to Google it because your work sounds really interesting I just I actually just started an Instagram thing And it's Rebecca RT that won't help me. Yeah What She's also very modest and I'd say backbones the organization she founded and leads is quite excellent But with that in mind about about seeing your work Was also could you put some of what you were what you're doing with those photographs that you described and maybe Jux to pose that with the work of someone like Dianne Arbus Which I learned it's Dianne not Diane the other day, but and some other folks who who take images of people with disabilities, but or not with those physical disabilities and any thoughts on on those kind of documentary photographers And there's a there's another photographer who just passed away George DeRoe from New Orleans who put men who were missing limbs on pedestals as if they were Roman portions of Fragments of these of these sculptures Just interest I'd just be interested to hear someone's perspectives. Are you asking sort of for of Rebecca's perspective of the portrayal of disability Thank you for thank you for refining my question. That's that's what I do Yeah, thank you Okay, wait say it again What is your when you're looking at art that portrays disability? What's your reaction to it? What do you want to see? I want to see real a Lot of times disability has been Images of people It's either pity or its inspiration So I think I want to see real and I don't want to see images of disability being the subject all the time But as a component of the whole the whole thing As part of the whole thing What do you mean by real? Because you know, I think your perspective of real is very different than the perspective of someone who does not use a wheelchair Well, I what I mean is the You know, there's a there's a spectrum going back to the pity and the inspiration there's a whole spectrum in between of What people's lives are day-to-day and I don't want to see images of people be, you know sad and hopeless or like in this in the sunset going like this, you know It's there's a lot. There's a lot in between and a lot of differences and diversity that I think makes for excellent artistic content So we are four minutes over and I will help you give a round of applause for our two folks up here So we're gonna break and have lunch and come back at Any other questions feel free to write them on the post-its come back from lunch at 1 p.m But you can you can keep your lunch and we can speak over the lunch if you need to thank you