 On screen, Australian Code of Arms and Administrative Appeals Tribunal logo. On screen, attending a child support hearing. This video is to help you prepare for a hearing by the Administrative Appeals Tribunal, the Social Services and Child Support Division, if what you ask the AAT to review is a decision made by the child support registrar. Knowing what a hearing is like will help you to prepare for it. The AAT is an independent tribunal which will take a fresh look at the decision you have asked it to review. The Social Services and Child Support Division is made up of a division head, senior members and members. Usually one member of the division will hear an application for review of a decision about child support. On screen, a security guard shows a woman and a man into the tribunal hearing room. Good morning, Mrs Linda Nguyen. Please take a seat over here. And Mr Nguyen, how are you? Take a seat there, thank you. Just take a moment to get your papers out. Good morning, my name is Mr Walsh and I'm the presiding member today. I'll ask my colleague to introduce herself. Good morning to both of you. Miss Anderson is my name. If you need to refer to us during the hearing, you can call us member. This is an application by Mrs Nguyen for review of the decision of the child support registrar dated 21 March 2013 to disallow her objection to the refusal of her application to depart from the child support assessment in respect of Susie. Mrs Nguyen sought a departure commonly known as a change of assessment on the grounds that the cost of maintaining Susie were significantly affected by her special needs and also that the financial support for her under the administrative assessment was unjust and inequitable because of the income, property and financial resources of Mr Nguyen. Now Mrs Nguyen confirmed at a directions hearing I convened on 30 April 2013 that those were the only grounds on which she was seeking a change of assessment. Now Mr Nguyen, you asked for permission for your accountant Mr Chi to be present at the hearing today to give evidence about your financial affairs and I gave permission because it was likely to be helpful to the tribunal to be able to ask him questions about the documents he had prepared. Is he still coming today? No, he said he wasn't coming this morning, but he is in his office. You can call him. Alright, so does he have a copy of your financial documents as they appear in the hearing papers? I've faxed in a copy of my financial documents out of these papers, so they are the same documents with the same numbers on them. Alright, thank you. The member will summarise the decision under review, making sure that both parties understand the basis for the decision. Hearings are private, although parties may ask the AAT in writing for permission to be represented by anyone at the hearing. Have someone give evidence on their behalf or have someone who is not a party present for any reason. The child support review directions cover this and many other important matters. It is important to read and comply with those directions. Now the tribunal will hear the matter by asking Mrs Nguyen to first tell the tribunal about Susie's needs. The tribunal will ask Mrs Nguyen some questions. Now, Mr Nguyen, if you happen to disagree with anything that she says to the tribunal, please do not interrupt. Simply make a note of anything you disagree with and the tribunal will later give you time to respond to what you've heard and we might also ask you questions about Susie's needs. When the tribunal has finished with that topic, we will then ask Mrs Nguyen to speak about Mr Nguyen's income, property and financial resources. Again, Mr Nguyen, if Mrs Nguyen says anything that you disagree with, please make a note of it rather than interrupting. You'll have time later to respond to anything that said about your income, property and financial resources. Is that understood, Mr Nguyen? Yeah. Thank you. Now, in considering those matters, the tribunal will be assisted by my colleague, Ms Anderson's qualifications and experience as an accountant. The tribunal will have questions for both of you about various items in your statements of financial circumstances. Again, the tribunal will ensure that each of you gets the opportunity to respond to anything that the other says without having to interrupt. Is that clear to you, Mrs Nguyen? Yes. Thank you. Is that clear to you, Mr Nguyen? Yes. As the tribunal is about to start hearing evidence, I'll now ask each of you to take an oath or affirmation. Mrs Nguyen, are you prepared to swear on the Bible or affirm to tell the truth this morning? I'll take from the affirmation. Thank you. I'll administer that now. Do you solemnly and sincerely affirm and declare that the evidence you will give in these proceedings will be true? Please say, I do. I do. Thank you. An oath may be sworn on the Bible by a Christian, the Torah by a Jew, the Koran by a Muslim and the Bhagavad Gita by a Hindu. Anyone can choose to make an affirmation instead of taking an oath. An affirmation is a solemn promise to tell the truth in the hearing. And Mr Nguyen, do you prefer to take an oath or affirmation? Um, an oath. Thank you. Can you take the Bible in your right hand? Thank you. Now, do you swear that the evidence you will give in these proceedings will be true? Please say, I do. I do. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Now, you both sworn to give truthful evidence. Mrs Nguyen, what do you want to say to us about Susie's special needs? Since she was a baby, Susie has needed special care and equipment. Throughout the hearing, be polite and calm. Write down things you want to say and bring it up when it is your turn to speak. If you don't understand, ask the member to explain. It is important that you speak directly to the member and not the other party. Before the hearing concludes, each party will be asked if there is anything further that he or she wishes to say before the hearing closes. This is the opportunity to say something that you may have forgotten or to clarify something that you said. All right. Now, Mr Nguyen, you've heard what Mrs Nguyen's had to say to us about Susie's special needs. Is there anything she's said that you disagree with? Yes. I mean, Susie was a normal baby. She got things like other kids. I mean, we pay the bill, we share the bill and everything. She's got her covered by Medicare. I mean, I've worked hard. I pay my fair share. All right. Now, we've heard from both of you about Susie's special needs and you've both pointed out things in the papers to each of us. You've both taken Susie to see specialists recently and will want a copy of any reports received, say, by 31 July. As you've each had some months to provide copies of relevant material, the Tribunal would not usually permit documents to be lodged after today's hearing. However, we accept that you've both tried hard to get the appointments and reports in advance. In those circumstances, we'll allow 14 days for the reports to be given to the Tribunal. If they're not received by 31 July, the Tribunal will make its decision without them. Do you understand that, Mrs Nguyen? Yes. And Mr Nguyen, do you understand that? Yeah. All right. Well, we'll now move on to the second ground on which Mrs Nguyen sought a change of assessment. Mrs Nguyen, what do you wish to say to us about Mr Nguyen's income, property and financial resources? He gets more money from the business than it sees here. I used to do his bookkeeping. That's lots of business that are off the books. All right. Now, Mr Nguyen, you've been taking notes of what Mrs Nguyen's been saying. Do you have any response? It's not true. It's simply not true. Mr Nguyen, can you please turn to page 91 of the documents you received from the Child Support Register? Yes. You mean the list of expenses for 2011 and 2012? Yes. If you look about halfway down the page, you'll notice an item recorded as rent. Can you please tell me what is included in that figure of $90,000? I think it is... Look, my accountant, he knows about these things. I'm no expert. All right, Mr Nguyen. You need to have your copy of your statement of financial circumstances and all of the documents with you and be prepared to answer questions about anything in them in relation to your financial affairs. Before the hearing, you should give the tribunal a copy of documents to corroborate your private and business expenses. If you are self-employed and may need your accountant to explain something, make sure that you tell the tribunal well in advance of the hearing that you want your accountant to give evidence. Mrs Nguyen, the tribunal will now ring Mr Nguyen's accountant, Mr Chi, to ask him to explain a few matters. Before we do that, is there anything you'd like the tribunal to ask Mr Chi? Yes. About the rent, because it is more than the list. And why all the expenses are higher than when I work in the business? All right, thank you. Now, if you just bear with us for a moment, we'll get Mr Chi on the line. On screen. Ms Anderson dials Mr Chi's number on a speakerphone. Good morning, Mr Chi. We're calling in relation to an application by Mrs Nguyen. You're giving evidence on behalf of Mr Nguyen. Are you ready to proceed? Yes. Thank you. Now, you should have copies of documents that Mr Nguyen faxed to you this morning. Before the hearing concludes, each party will be asked if there is anything further that he or she wishes to say before the hearing closes. This is the opportunity to say something that you may have forgotten or to clarify something that you said. You shouldn't repeat what you have already said. Occasionally, the tribunal may decide to obtain further information after the hearing and will wait for that information before it makes a decision. If the tribunal does obtain fresh information, it will send a copy to the parties for their comments. Otherwise, the tribunal will make a decision very soon after the hearing and will send a copy of its decision to the parties within 14 days. This video shows you the review process. We have not had time to show everything that you might want to know. There are places you can receive help or information and much of this information is available on the AAT's website www.aat.gov.au