 Hey, everybody drew here that anxiety guy calm back for another episode with on the other end of the line on the UK Billy from anxiety United say hello Billy. How are they good to be here again? Yes? Yes, this is the second in our little series that we're gonna be doing based on an article. I wrote many moons ago Called dealing with anxiety. The only way out is through We're gonna break this down Billy and I are gonna go break this down kind of section by section through the article and in the Video description whether you're listening on my channel or Billy's channel will be a link to the article if you Want to follow along go ahead and do that. Yep. And what are we gonna talk about today? My friends, mate We are gonna talk about the concept of not being in any real danger Because it's an important topic the fact that We all go through this but essentially there is no danger. That is true So the the the topic of today is fear, right there. Correct. It's all about fear and fear is probably the Fears the driver behind all of this stuff that we're talking about in the end. So the subheading for me was Well, they we don't want to bleed into the next episode, but yes fear feeds that But let's just talk about being in no real danger. I think that that's important. So why don't you get started? The thing for me the no real danger is that it's the fight or fly response. That's the thing that really stands out for me I think with the fight or flight We experience the exact same things that we would if there was a tiger in the car park You know, that's true. The problem being that if we experienced the fight or flight and there was a real danger I don't think that we'd think about how fast our heart was beating or how much air we're taking in because we'd be So focused on dealing with the situation, but I think because it's out of context That's where the problem lies. It's those the physical sensations the symptoms And because there's nothing that we're actually afraid of there It just blows your mind, I guess. That's a really good point because there's nothing to focus externally on So when we get into a panic situation a panic attack or anxiety becomes really elevated We're dealing with fear for the most part fear is driving it and Yes, it's all about the adrenaline dump, right? So once it happens it happens and these are normal predictable measurable physiological responses to the presence of adrenaline in your bloodstream And we have to recognize that it doesn't necessarily mean just because your heart is pumping and you're breathing heavily You're sweating and your legs are jelly It doesn't necessarily mean that you're really in any kind of danger. There is no real danger There's nothing to fight or fly from that's exactly right and you make a really good point Since there actually is no external danger. Nobody has a gun at your head There's no lion chasing you all the things you said you're not hanging from, you know a cliff or anything like that There's nothing to focus that on so you tend to turn our focus inwards on her thoughts and what we're feeling physical physiologically and And that's where the fear comes from yet. There's nothing actually there to be afraid of so how do we How do we recognize that and then how do we deal with it because that's really kind of step one here? Is to recognize that you're not in actual you're not in any real danger Maybe we should go through what we what people seem to be afraid of Okay, so I've made a list of a few of the things or a few of the things that have come to my mind The fear of going crazy. That's probably a big one. It's one of the top two I don't know if we want to go through these as a list and then go through them. Sure. Let's blow So next I've got the fear of passing out, which is a big one for me The heart attack fear of a heart attack. Yes the breathing and suffocation and Then a fear of losing control just completely gone. Yes, and I think when you look at Study after study questionnaire after questionnaire over the many years the top two things that people fear when they get into these Situations are the fear of losing control it losing control and going insane seem to get lumped together Coming psychotic and the other one is dying. So you mentioned like having a heart attack. I think I read somewhere that for females It's the going crazy losing control and the heart attack is the male thing. Is that it seems to be there's no like hard evidence of that But you know, you know Mars and Venus thing who the hell knows I'll never understand those people So if you have ovaries, I'm talking we're never yeah, yeah, we're never gonna figure you out So I probably just had 50% of the population of the boycott our podcast. I'm not sure I'm gonna edit that Yeah, you might want to edit that out So no, I mean you're right. So men and women tend to perceive it differently But the top two concerns that people seem to have and I think we kind of all relate to them was dying or going insane Yeah, yeah, definitely And here's the good news We pretty much know that no one has ever gone insane During a panic attack or lost control or died So I think one of the points that I made on that on the going crazy was that the fact that you know that you're Experiencing all this stuff essentially says that you're you're of sane enough mind to know that this is happening So if you were going crazy, you'd probably just be sitting there and stuff would be going on and you wouldn't even really recognize You wouldn't anything. Yeah. Yeah, and it's you know from a I mean it's old school But the difference between a neurosis and a psychosis and you know an anxiety disorder including Orphobia and Gad and all that stuff those are neuroses and it doesn't make you crazy So crazy people don't know they're crazy That's the point. I was trying to make but I was going all the way around the house. No But that's okay. That's okay. Yeah, crazy people don't know they're crazy. They don't know they're going crazy Yeah, that's crazy as a derogatory term, but I am on thin ice today. What is with me Tuesday morning? I'm just defending everybody getting confident. That's what it is. That's what it is. So yes, no one courage Yes, no one loses control. No one dies. No one goes insane. No one becomes psychotic during a panic attack It just doesn't happen But yet these are the things that we fear and the fear is really generated internally. I think for the most part It's generated by how we feel and the thoughts that we have so we should maybe think about that The difference between a scary thought and which could certainly signal danger, right? I mean, I know for a lot. Yeah, I've heard you talk a lot in the past about negative thoughts, you know I've never know. Yeah, whether it was a sensation that always hits me first or whether it's a thought Yeah, that's one thing that I've always struggled to come to terms with is is which comes first Okay But yeah negative thinking is a is a big issue for me because when I when I get bogged down in the negative thoughts, right? That that's what it is because they tend to start with maybe it's not such a A paralyzing negative thought but they just escalate and escalate and one thing leads to another and then it it's the catastrophizing and that's That's where I feel like I kind of lose control I know that I don't but that's where it becomes just this train of thought that just rolls off Right on its own and it's not that losing control of like, you know going insane or losing your mind It's losing control of your thoughts, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's just getting carried away Yeah, that can be tough and so I think the source of the fear that we're talking about which is the false fear There really is no real danger is the sensations in our body the racing heart the breathing the jelly legs Maybe feeling a little off balance or dizzy. That's a big one for me. I still feel that primarily that's my still the hardest symptom for me to get past and But and then also what goes on our heads So like you said the racing thoughts the negative thoughts see the catastrophizing what if there's two phrases that I always Say that people should probably look out for one is what if and the other one is oh my god When you get to oh my god or whatever your analog is When you get to what if or oh my god, you've kind of gone off the rails and then here. We here we go Here we go right here. It comes here. It comes. Oh, oh, oh is another one And so our thoughts can trigger this can feel this feel this fear our bodies can feel this fear Are there external things? I mean we're talking about the fact that this is fear without any danger behind it Can we think of any external things that actually fuel this fear that bring about this false fear? I don't know whether it this would be class does that but at the moment in the UK The weather's been really stiflingly hot. Okay, and that's that's something for me They're always sets off my panic but that then to be fair It's the it's the air quality, but then it becomes a breathing thing So I suppose the external thing is the heat, but then it's my thoughts of I'm not getting enough air or You know so it goes from that but then it becomes and we get on that snowball thing and that's a good point It's actually really good point because I think we can then have external fear. Yeah. Yeah, I think right But the difference is again even in that situation So maybe it's very hot where you are right now and maybe humid But it doesn't it doesn't mean you're unsafe yet that will trigger this fear thing exactly So it's not so much the the external influence or whatever that Yeah, it's just a little maybe a little spark or something. Yes, and it's mainly how we interpret it So just like anything else. It's how we interpret what our bodies are doing. It's how we interpret our thoughts It's how we interpret the environment around us that I think puts us in this false fear situation I'm gonna full false fear. No real danger. Whatever it is. Yeah, yeah So I think job one that most of us have is we talked about last week job You know job one really is to understand the framework of accepting and courageous being courageous and all that persistence and patience But really I mean you get to the nuts and bolts So which is what we're talking about now The first thing to do is you're gonna have to really believe that the fear even though it feels so real every bit As real as if somebody had a gun is not real. Isn't it the fear is real, but the danger is not it. Yeah Yeah So, you know down the road We're gonna have to talk about a little bit more about that fear cycle I guess and how we're gonna deal with that But really our goal today was just to sort of unmask that Can you think of any times that I mean, I know I can in my own they're embarrassing sometimes if I think about it But you know, hey go on go on for go on share share but Times when you were absolutely convinced that this that there was a real danger But and then you know, it just turns out to be not I mean I could think of many times and for me You know, I never had that fear of going insane or losing control for me It was always a fear of physical damage or death. Yeah, and I can remember Very clearly over the years those times where I let it get over the edge You know the tipping point when it there was nothing you could have done that would have convinced me that I was not having a Fatal heart attack or stroke or God knows what sort of physical thing And we've all wound up right in the emergency room. I've never know You have never done that never gone that far. Yeah, yeah for you. I have done that. I mean, it's embarrassing to me I mean not in many many years, but especially in the beginning for most many people the first thing things you got to run for help You got to run for real help like ambulances and doctors and nurses in a hospital and that sort of stuff I think it's interesting. You've never gone down the road. That's really it's really strange Usually my go-to thing is to just isolate myself. That's how I tend to deal with it I'll usually run to the bathroom and just splash water on my face wherever I am. That's what I'll do With we used to have a service in the UK by the NHS. I can't remember what it was I think it was 111 or something like that. It was NHS direct Okay So you could phone up this helpline and and talk about how you were feeling or whatever and they sort of guide you or if If you needed to go in to hospital and they would tell you right I phoned that once But I think I was waiting for that long that by the time I'd actually got through I'd kind of Yeah Yeah, yeah, so maybe that that was their strategy probably Sometimes it at least here in the US the way it works and we have a lot of those things There's no government-sponsored line like that But there's a ton of helplines and stuff usually in each community each state or whatever But we really do tend to and I understand why this is we tend to err on the side of caution So if you call your doctor at eight o'clock at night Yeah, and you get him on the phone and or her on the phone and you say this is what I'm feeling I've had a doctor say to me. Well, it sounds like you're having a panic attack, but just in case Yeah, you always get that just in case if you're feeling if you know shorter breath You should go to the hospital and they'll tell you the same thing like as soon as you walk in I know in my experience as soon as you walk in they look at you and they know They just know because they've seen it a million times They say yeah, you know So, you know in those situations, I do remember very clearly times when I was absolutely convinced and not only was I convinced I acted upon it as it really was danger And then when I'm feeling very embarrassed in the end So I think many of us have done that the fact that you have not done that. I think It's so interesting because You you will deal with it by isolating a little bit Yeah, yes and and almost then acknowledging even tacitly that that it's generated from in inside Like you're almost acknowledging like well, you know, because if you were having a heart attack splashing water in your face Isn't gonna save you Unless you've invented something new but no, no, but it is interesting Consciously to do that as opposed to go for external help like medical. So that's really great I think I've learned over the years that just allowing the time to pass Although I mean, I'm still obviously scared of the symptoms and the sensations But I know that deep down that if I just It doesn't matter what I do. It's gonna pass It doesn't matter whether I run around the house or splash water or scream for help or call whoever I know I know deep down that 15 minutes down the road I'll start to feel Normal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the benefit of unfortunately for you and I many years of experience experience Yes, you do learn from experience, but you know in terms of the the no real danger of the false fear I'm always fascinated by how you've learned that over the years I've learned it over the years many people that we both personally know have learned that over the years There's some mechanism and I don't understand where the mechanism is that made you learn that or made me learn that or made Chris learn that or the people that yeah, you both know but but other people almost never have that light bulb go off So I know people that are still, you know heading to a hospital when they have a panic attack Yeah, yeah never actually fully accepted that there's actually no danger here So I'm always, you know, that's for some people if you're listening and you're new to this You know, it's this you're just now getting into the getting into like it's a hobby That was that was not the right way to say that but but you're just now first dealing with anxiety and panic and those Things this is probably the hardest lesson to the first lesson to learn the hardest lesson Yeah, yeah, and it's not one that I sub cut that I consciously learn something just But I think like you said it's time. It's experience unfortunately, right sadly We have to have those experiences in this and even though, you know rationally you may know like I'm having another panic attack after panic attack number 10 It might really take until number 30 for you really buy into it because what you think rationally and what you do during a panic attack Are often two very vastly different things Yeah, yeah, but it all comes down to just understanding that the fear isn't real. It's just not real It's not real. I think another part of me me not calling the emergency department is probably embarrassment as well just Feeling like a bit of a doofus Yeah, I have been there and those times when I have done that and I think I've probably only done that three times If I think back maybe done it three times Enough for many many years, but you always I always find up wind up feeling so embarrassed and yeah Yeah, anybody that knows me knows that like I'm stubborn. I you know, I could be bleeding from the head I will not call the doctor like that's just stupid that way But in those situations I ran for help when I really didn't need it. So it was embarrassing, but maybe we should talk for just a minute about Anticipatory like future fear Anticipation which is such a huge part that stands in the way of a lot of recovery for a lot of people and and the fear that comes I call a future fear. It's our anticipatory anxiety. Yeah. Yeah, I call it. I think that's real fear, too But it's also not real. So I mean, it's real fear, but the danger isn't real, you know, we're anticipating future danger I don't know if that if that's something that you have had That's a big one a big one for me Yeah, yeah, because even though as we've just been like I've spoke about panic attacks as if yeah, don't bother me But they do bother me they bother me that much that I anticipate Doing pretty much anything get them in it because I don't want to experience even though I know That allowing time to pass will let the panic attack. Sure subside. I still fear bringing that on I don't want to experience it and I think that's probably what keeps me Personally stuck in that the loop. Okay, because you've got to be prepared to Experience those feelings and learn that the fear is not real. Yes You know, and there's only so much. I feel brave enough in times to put myself through it Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah, I hear you but and that anticipatory thing I mean, I think in a lot of ways the future fear or the anticipatory fear is what turns, you know, panic attacks or just Anxiety into a disorder. Yeah. Yeah when we anticipate that we may panic or we may have anxiety and we fear how that's going to be We're anticipating future danger that doesn't even actually exist. That's when we begin to modify our lifestyles Worlds get a little smaller. We stop. We start avoiding things people places activities on that, right? And that's what turns just anxiety or just a panic attack because evidently almost everybody walking the planet at some point in their life experiences some form of anxiety or Even a panic attack here and there. Yeah, my my wife had a panic attack a couple of years ago Yeah, and she she had the panic attack and it was like I was talking around and I dealt with it like a pro Sure, because I had so much experience, but she's never had another one soon And she didn't even the next day. Yeah, exactly But yet some the very first time I ever had a panic attack I was I guess I was probably at 18 19 years old and I remember it so clearly and You know that immediately had an impact on me immediately that first experience sent me on a bad road Yeah, you know, your wife has a panic attack in the next day. It's like it never happened. So Sorry, yeah, so the future that that false danger that we anticipate in the future is a huge deal So, you know when you know like well, I have a wedding to go to next week out of town And you know, I haven't been out of the house in three months. What do I do? That's that's that future fear that anticipation of false danger. That's That's really kind of driving things. I've missed so many family weddings over the last few years. Sure No, and there's because of anticipation or future a hundred percent Yeah, and there's nothing I'd like more than to go and do it, but it's the fear of experiencing those unwanted Even though I know It doesn't matter. It's just it's the loop. Well, you know what if you if you Take out a hammer and smash your finger with it. Eventually it will stop hurting. We know that but it doesn't You want to smash your finger with the hammer? Yeah, this is it. I would do that. Yeah Yeah, so I get that I think it's important for people to understand that it's not just we're only talking about false fear during a panic attack We're also talking about false fear or false danger that we anticipate in the future because When it's happening, that's an event or an episode But when we anticipate false danger in the future, that's what drives lifestyle changes and that's what turns into a disorder And that's a real thing. So it's okay to you know, accept that and say like, oh, yeah That's why I don't leave the house because I'm afraid of what might happen So we have to unmask that false danger also. I feel like this is a counseling session Maybe it is. I don't know. I'm not complaining. Yeah No, it's good because I feel like I I need to although I know the nuts and bolts and we've discussed it many a time Yeah, it doesn't hurt to take the old tools out the box and You know keep them sharp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure So I don't I do think we've have we exhausted the idea that the fear is real, but the danger is not these are fake dangers Yes, you are in no real danger. You are in no real danger. Okay, so we've gone about 20 minutes I think we should probably wrap it up here. So we don't happy with that. Yeah, that's good Yeah, so I guess we'll end like we're always gonna end if you have questions or comments You could be there's a million ways you're gonna be able to listen to this or watch this Billy's channel anxiety United on YouTube. There's mine that anxiety guy So we'll put all the links, you know, the social Go ahead if you're on YouTube comment, whatever channel you're on if you're listening to this is a podcast on my website By all means comment there and we'll look for comments and we'll talk about them and I should send the comments Yeah, I send them right. I think we said that last time Questions Billy doesn't want to hear. No, that's that's not true. We'll talk about that one day, too I think that whole like discussing it too much thing you and I have talked about that. Yeah Yeah, how that could be detrimental, but sure some of the comments my way. That's fine I'll give you the links Twitter that anxiety guy facebook.com slash that anxiety guy or that anxiety guy calm Like it's my YouTube channel is also that anxiety guy. So where can they find you Billy? I think it is. Yeah, just YouTube YouTube.com slash You know that's it that'll do. That's all you need to know That's good. Yeah, so ask us whatever you want and before we go we got some really did you look at any of the comments? I mean, I haven't seen the comments on your channel. We got some very nice comments for people There was only a couple on mine. I think I can't remember somebody commented this morning somebody that's watched my 31 days Yeah series and they've been commenting on pretty much every video like I've watched it over the course of the week and They commented on it. Well, we've got very very kind words and we both appreciate that So keep it coming very much. Yeah, very much. We're all here What will I need to learn as as well as everybody else? Hey, I'm learning as we go. So, you know, this is it We'll all pick something up from it. Exactly. Exactly. So alright folks Well, thanks for hanging out with us and I guess we're gonna see you next time. Well indeed. See you dude. Bye for now