 Daily Tech News show is made possible by you, the listener, thanks to all of you, including John Atwood, Pat, Mike Cortez, and everybody welcome our new patron, Sam! Welcome, Sam! On this episode of DTNS with so many tech layoffs happening, what are tech workers planning to do? We talked to two folks who recently lost their jobs about just that. Plus, a change that could make LLMs much more reliable, and whether open table is being fair to its reviewers. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, April 12th, 2024. In Los Angeles, and anywhere I am, I'm Tom Merritt. From Studio Animal House, I'm Sarah Lane. From San Francisco, I'm Nicole Lee. From the Bloc Montchanteau in British Columbia, I'm Veronica Belmont. Oh, drawing the top tech stories in Cleveland, I'm Len Peralta. And it's me, Roger, the show's producer. Oh my gosh, Roger, good job bringing all these folks together today. Well done. Wow, good stuff. We have a lovely panel today. Thank you, Nicole. Thank you, Veronica, for being with us. This is lovely. Happy to be here. Me too. We begin with a serving of the Quick Hits. You might ask yourself, is Google shutting down a service, even really news anymore? Well, in case it is, Google says it will remove its VPN service from the Google One paid subscription plans, because, quote, people simply weren't using it, end quote. The idea is to let the support team focus more of their time on in-demand features. Google didn't give an exact date, just said it would go away in the next few months. The VPN introduced for Pixel users on the Pixel 7 will continue, though, at least for now. China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is directing Chinese telecoms to remove foreign processors from their network equipment by 2027. So, you know, Intel, AMD, that kind of stuff. Locally made chips from Huawei, high-silicon, high-gon IT, and the National University of Defense Technology have improved enough that telecoms have begun to switch over for other reasons in many cases, and that has given China the confidence to require them to switch over. China accounted for 27% of Intel's revenue last year and 15% of AMD's, while it will still be able to sell chips to Chinese companies for other uses. This is just for telecom use. It will certainly have an impact. And China is attempting to restrict the use of foreign-made chips in other cases as well. The U.S. Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, or CISA, is investigating a breach at SISENS, which, among other things, makes a dashboard to monitor availability of third-party online services. CISA and SISENS recommend customers reset their credentials shared between monitored services and SISENS products. CREBS on security sources say that the attacker gained access to an Amazon S3 token through a GitLab code repository. It used the S3 server reportedly to access millions of tokens, email account passwords, and SSL certificates. That would let the attackers appear to be validly logged in users of any third-party service attached to SISENS dashboards. SISENS has more than 1,000 customers across financial, education, healthcare, and telecommunications services. Kind of an nightmare, to be honest, for the folks who have to deal with resetting all those credentials. The conversation has an article out showing that weather predictions have been getting better, not worse, despite the fact that we humans generally focus on the failures rather than the successes. Improved accuracy is not 100% accuracy, but it is improved. According to the Met Office in the UK, a four-day forecast today is as accurate as a one-day forecast was 30 years ago. And even more important than whether you should wear a raincoat, meteorologists can now accurately forecast where a hurricane will hit up to three to four days in advance within 50 miles or less. And yes, you all can remember that one time that that was wrong, but now try to remember all the times it was right. You probably won't, since that's not how our brains work. But there are a lot more right predictions in weather than mistakes these days. Good to remember. Well, my weather app says it's going to rain in LA tomorrow, so... We'll find out. We'll find out, won't we? Yeah. That's fine. It's still April. It counts. Paramount will shut down its standalone Showtime app on April 30. Showtime is now included in the Paramount Plus tiers of subscriptions and can be accessed through the Paramount Plus app as well. This is similar in approach to what Warner Brothers did when it merged HBO into its other services to create what is now called Max. Max. Alright, let's talk chatbots. Let's do it. META is testing its large language model powered at chatbot META AI on WhatsApp, on Instagram, and also Messenger in India, Nigeria, and some other countries in Africa. India is META's single largest market. A lot of you might not have known that before, with more than 500 million users across Facebook and WhatsApp. And is the latest in the march of AI tools being released to the public around the world. So as we all get more access to more of these tools, it's worth noting that how they work is changing. I did an episode recently on Know a Little More about chat GPT. And if you heard that, you know that I described that large language models work by basically predicting what the next word or next pixel in image generators is going to be based on what it has been trained on and what has come before in the sequence. So the prompts or anything else that's said so far. The professor of AI at University of Bath, Nello Christianini has an article on the conversation about how that may be about to change and make chatbots more capable. Open AI's GPT 5 and Meta's Llama 3 models are expected to have the ability to plan ahead. So not just predict the next thing, be able to have a goal in mind. Say, oh, we're headed towards this. Let's figure out how to get there. Google DeepMind famously developed an algorithm that was good at planning ahead called AlphaGo. That's the one that beat world champions at the game of Go or Botic. The idea is to incorporate the planning element of an AlphaGo into LLMs and replace the predictive or autoregressive element with planning. This would mean a chatbot might understand that you have an end in mind and can help you reach that end. Current LLMs have no conception of what your goals are. They are just making predictions. And if that plays out in Meta and Open AI's next models, which is what it sounds like it might, you will see a big improvement in what they can do. Versus, you know, we had some improvements from GPT 3 to GPT 4, but this would be a big jump and likely reduce things like hallucinations and even some mistakes. I am curious, Veronica, as someone who has followed chatbots and even worked with chatbots in the past, you know, this seems pretty optimistic. What do you think of this? No, I think this is a fantastic sub-forward, I would say. I think some of the main problems that we have currently with these tools are particularly AI not only just using predictive text and kind of generating sentences. And we've called them around the house just sentence generators. It's unfair even to call them AI at this point in the game, but the term has become broadly accepted as such. But also the fact that it has a hard time remembering things. So if you try to start a conversation, it starts hallucinating, as you mentioned. It doesn't really remember much about who or what you are. I know that Open AI is trying to add some more tools and features to help prevent that moving forward so that it does actually remember your goals, what you're trying to achieve, who you are, your preferences. And I think in order for us to kind of get to that next step, it needs to be able to do that without having to send the conversation to itself repeatedly over and over again, which is just a huge technological issue I think that all of these companies are dealing with right now. Yeah, Nicole, I feel like a lot of people don't even realize how LLMs work now. And so they may just look at this as, you know, oh, it's going to get better, but it would be a fundamental change underneath, right? Yeah, I think so. Like you mentioned, do moving away from just purely predictive to, you know, actively planning things out, that would probably veer more towards the artificial intelligence end of things. But, you know, I don't think we're quite there yet, but I think this is obviously their attempt to do so. Yeah, I think about one of the obvious examples, you know, when people are trying some of these tools out is like, you know, let's try to apply for a job, right? You know, like help me with my resume type thing. It's like, well, if an LLM knows that you want that job, you know, what does the output look differently like with, you know, some of this new technology that we're talking about now rather than just pure predictive you know, finishing your sentence type style. That's a great question. Yeah, and I've actually, I can say from experience that I've been doing just that because I actually taught a I created a personal GPT to help with resume and cover letter creation. And so it does actually input, you know, I can input my resume, but it doesn't remember that from session to session. And I think that's one of the difficult things is that it should know like, okay, this this resume was successful, like it should ask me for updates or it should just know automatically like, okay, you you submitted your resume and cover letter to to this role. How did that work out what worked about our edits and what didn't being able to learn from these experiences I think are really going to be game changers and how these actually work to help people in the different tasks. I think we also know that these large language models when they're very when they have a broad set of things they need to do they don't perform very well when they're much narrower much more vertical than they perform much better. And so having these specialized tasks that they can train very specifically on I think is also a really good use case for these these personal LLMs that open AI and other services are starting to create. We hear about Sam Altman and others Johnny I've creating a hardware device that's supposed to be like a personal AI that will learn all about you and be able to come with you through different experiences and times in your life. And I really think that's the next step is having something that's trained very specifically on very specific goals and requiring specific outcomes, while also still being very smart having all of the information of the Internet available to it, while also retaining your personal information and staying secure. That's all we asked. Just those little things. Yeah. Yeah, it's easy. Small matters. What's the problem. Well, let's talk about restaurant reservations and why OpenTable has ruffled some feathers today. OpenTable said in an email to members Friday that starting on May 22nd all reviews on the platform will now show and members profile picture if there is one and first name, even if the past review was sent anonymously and posted anonymously, OpenTable says that the change was made to provide more transparency in its review system, and also says that diners have contributed over 136 million reviews on its platform sharing dining experiences as good and bad with other members. So it's a pretty big shift to go from you can be anonymous if you choose to you could be pinpointed at a location based on the date of review or your name or both. Now, we all have lived in San Francisco at one point. Nicole, I know you're still there. So I'm going to go ahead and guess we've all used OpenTable at least once or twice. I actually logged into my account earlier and I was like, Oh, yeah, I haven't reviewed anything. But I mean, I, I, I last used it in 2019 got a reservation at a table. Some folks very unhappy though about the retroactive part of this saying going forward. Okay, terms have changed. But if I left a scathing review or even a really positive one and I chose to be anonymous, I have a problem with that being linked back to me. Nicole, what are your thoughts? As you mentioned, the retroactive part is problematic. And I mean, well, I'm not sure if we've heard from OpenTable or not, whether they've going to they're going to notify its users on this big change. And even if they do, you know, how many users would like to pay attention to those notification emails, that kind of a thing. So I think the important thing here is like them letting users know that they're going to make this change. And hopefully there is a way to like opt out or opt in or that kind of thing, you know, to hopefully detach yourself from that process. But I do agree that the retroactive part of this is problematic. I would personally, I would hopefully advise OpenTable to just like, you know, from this point on where it will attach your name to your reviews. But anything before this point will disregard that. I think that was the ideal move for going forward. I'd be curious to do it from a from a legality perspective. Like I'm sure in the actual terms and like the Yula or whatever we signed when we initially signed up for OpenTable. Like maybe it said things would be anonymous, but maybe they didn't. I don't know. I didn't read it. Did you? Maybe Tom did. No, I even I don't read in terms of service. That's ridiculous. I would like to note that they did notify members of the change in policy in an email. So if you had left a review, which I have left 10 of apparently I had no idea that they told you. But I mean, I was going to agree with Nicole and so far that there's a difference between being like legal and also just being like decent. And I think like just doing that and it's a good thing that they told people. Yeah, I have left some reviews on Yelp that I've forgotten about because I don't know I moved out of the city or I don't care anymore. They're usually bad reviews because that's what drives and fuels me when I'm upset about something I'm like the world needs to know. And it just didn't happen on OpenTable, but same idea. I've considered deleting them just kind of like, I don't know, it just makes me sound like an angry person, you know, some years down the road. But at the same time, I knew that that was something that could be attributed to me. If you if you're writing an anonymous review, I mean, well, first of all, if anonymous reviews on the internet are often bots or, you know, a competing restaurant who wants to take down the restaurant that they're reviewing. I mean, there are all sorts of reasons that an anonymous review is not really helpful to anybody. But if you if you truly think you're anonymous and and the company says yes, you have that option and then later on says, well, now we want to be more transparent. I can see where that that can be problematic. It's probably not very often that somebody who wrote a really bad review of the restaurant on the corner five years ago is, you know, someone's going to knock on the door and be like, we know it was you now kind of thing. But, you know, privacy is important. Yeah, this is not the biggest problem in the world. I'm with you on that. Restaurants could probably figure out who was leaving their scathing reviews just because that person was probably not happy when they were in the restaurant. They already knew the date that was already associated with the review, even when it was anonymous. But it's the principle of the thing, right? It's one thing to say from now on, they won't be anonymous. Just so you know, that's fine. That's a change in policy. And I'll deal with it. But to say retroactively, oh, those things you thought didn't have your name on them. Well, guess what they have your first name on them? Not not cool. And yes, I know you can go read, remove your reviews if you're worried about it. So at least you have some action you can take. But control. Yeah. Yeah. Not the best. It's like family restaurants everywhere are like, wait, you didn't like our restaurant this entire time. You're my son. That's what I mean. Like restaurants seats 30 people. One person is angry that day. And then they leave a review about their stay that day. You kind of know who was already. I never show my anger on my sleeve, man. I know. That's that's not the Belmont way. And just smile all the way to the end and then grumble, grumble, grumble on the way. Well, on a different note, you might be trying to save money these days, right? With inflation. Have you seen the price of grapes? Well, PC upgrades are something you need to be careful about because not only could they save you money that could keep you from buying a new computer, but you don't want to be wasting money on upgrading the wrong things. So Roger and I put together the top five PC upgrades you should consider. It'll take you all 60 seconds to catch up on this. Go watch our new top five PC upgrades at Daily Tech News Show on Tiktok, DTNSPIX on Instagram or youtube.com slash Daily Tech News Show. Well, the U.S. economy has been growing and job growth remains strong. The tech and media sectors have been suffering round after round of layoffs. We talk about a lot of these on the show when we feel like, you know, it pertains to tech in our audience. Just in April, checker, that's a technology that offers employee background checks laid off 800, I'm sorry, 382 people, 832 would be a lot more. Still quite a few people. Ghost autonomy, a startup focused on developing software for self-driving cars closed its doors, April 3rd, leading to more than 100 layoffs in Mountain View, Dallas, Detroit, and Sydney. There are other examples of this, obviously. On the bigger company side, Intel is planning layoffs beginning around May 25th. Last Friday, Apple laid off more than 600 employees. Got a lot of news because, you know, it's Apple, but companies, especially in the tech and media sector are downsizing. With so many people being laid off in these sectors, we wanted to talk to a couple folks about what they plan to do next. Veronica and Nicole, thank you for being willing to share your stories with us. Veronica, let's start with you. How do you feel about the tech sector right now? Because as you mentioned earlier in the show, you're actively looking for work and working on resumes and stuff. Yeah, I mean, it's a very, it's a tough time. And it feels very, even very privileged now to say that because the tech industry has seen so many years of growth. And I think, especially during the pandemic, there was a huge bubble of hiring. So many companies got inflated so very quickly. And now there's a big correction in the industry. And it's, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways, but that doesn't mean it stings any less when you and a thousand or 2,000 of your coworkers get let go all around the same time. My company that I previously was at did 3 or 4 rounds of layoffs just in the 2 years that I was there alone. And all of those were public, so I don't mind saying so. But it's a difficult climate to work under. And for these companies now that are still awaiting their next round of layoffs or are hearing about it in the news or probably being spoken to about it in all hands and town halls all across the world. It's, it's that fear is very difficult climate to work under. And so, yeah, it's a tough time. And the industry itself, the job market is really difficult. And especially with sites like LinkedIn or indeed where you're just kind of throwing your resume and to avoid a black hole, not really understanding who's looking at it and when and how and how best to optimize your resume and your cover letters. It's difficult and we can talk more about some of the ways that I've been looking at it personally. But a lot of folks are going through the same thing right now. So, Nicole, I know your experience is a little bit different. It was more of a, like a media shutdown, I guess, than a layoff. But does what Veronica says resonate with you? Yeah, you know, I think there's a decent amount of crossover because the media industry is affected a lot by the less reliability on programmatic ads and advertising revenue has gone down. And there's definitely some crossover with the tech industry as well. You know, it's just the environment is rough, I think, for a lot of media companies because they're owned more frequently than ever. A lot of media companies are bought by, you know, private equity and private equity, there's a strong incentive to make money like not like yesterday because they bought these companies for billions of dollars, so they want the return on their investment. And in order to make money quickly, you have to, you know, more often than not, let people go. You have to cut departments, cut jobs and things like that. And the people who are still left in the company, they're driven, you know, to work harder to like meet those goals, you know, to get those SEO numbers. So it's a tough industry for sure. And we can talk about like what we're doing right now to get through it. But yeah, it's, I can definitely feel the simpatico between the two different sectors just because, you know, we are both getting laid off in the huge numbers and we have to deal with pivoting our careers maybe or like looking for different ways to do our job. Using those chat GPT tools to like, you know, customize our resumes and cover letters, but it is, it's very interesting. If you mentioned, you mentioned LinkedIn Veronica. LinkedIn is like the hottest social network right now. Everybody's posting. I don't know how this happened, by the way. It's like LinkedIn was sort of, yeah, like it was like, it was a good tool and then it was sort of, I don't want to say a joke, but something that a lot of people were like, eh, LinkedIn, you know, so corporate me. And now it's like, wow, it's, you know, like a great place to network. It is, it is the hotspot for sure. And I think a lot of people, myself included are still figuring out how to, how to utilize it and maximize it. Because, you know, my voice, my internet voice is very catered to the, the, the threads and the X's of the world, though I no longer am on X or Twitter, um, functionally speaking. Uh, and so like figuring out how to do like corporate LinkedIn speak is like a whole new skill and it's, it's very uncomfortable for me. And yet I know that recruiters are looking there. I know that potential hiring managers are looking there. And so you feel this very strong urge to, to be a voice, to be an influencer, to, to be a thought leader in your space. And that doesn't come naturally to everybody. Yeah. Well, so. Brand. Yeah. Totally. Okay. So, so talking about being your own brand and talking, uh, going back to what both of you said earlier about, you know, you can go through a little bit more details about, you know, how, how you're moving forward. Some people decide, you know what, you know, maybe my industry, uh, is just not popping right now. I'm going to take a little time off. Other people don't have the luxury of doing that. Everybody's different. Um, but at the same time, taking a job that you don't really want because you need a job is never really the solution. Um, it can be a stopgap, but it, you know, it, it doesn't necessarily lend itself to happiness for the company or yourself. So, so how do you, how do you handle looking at jobs that could work but aren't right? Nicole, do you want to go first? Yeah. Uh, you know, uh, at a certain point when you're unemployed, uh, there's, there's, there's definitely stages, right? The first stage is like, okay, you have enough savings to last you a little while. Maybe at the beginning of your job search, you kind of be more selective. Maybe you're like, you're looking for the jobs that really fit your desires and your wishes. And then as maybe the weeks go by, maybe like, oh, maybe I shouldn't be so like selective. Maybe I should be like a little bit, uh, more relaxed in my, uh, my wish list, you know, it's, it's kind of like, it's kind of like looking for a house. You know, you have to be like, you have your wish list and then like, if the compromises start, give the, give compromise as, as the search goes on. And, but at the same time, I think honestly, I think the important thing is to know who you are, know what you want. Uh, know the compromises that you're willing to make and know the compromise that you're not, that you're not willing to make and sort of use that as your like moral guidance. If that's the right word to use. Um, and hopefully that's like your, your guiding light, you know, as to which jobs you're willing to do. So I'm going to say, okay, this is not a hundred percent of what I want, but it's close enough. Or this other job that, um, I really want, but the qualifications, I miss out on a couple of those qualifications, but I can make a case for myself. So I'm going to, I'm going to apply for it anyway. Kind of a thing. So, you know, the, the willingness to shoot your shot for those like dream jobs that you might not fit a hundred percent of the qualifications. I think is really important. Yeah. So I'm going to give yourself open to, to career pivots as well. Hmm. Yeah. I know that looking for a job is a full-time job. Um, so I took a, I took a couple of months to really get my head on straight. And I did have the, the privilege of being able to do that because of my severance. Um, that doesn't last forever though. Uh, so I have started that process now. Um, but yeah, when Nicole says is absolutely true, like if you're, if you're looking for something and you don't, and women especially are, are tend to do this, which is about a hundred percent of the quality qualifications for. Um, but also don't forget to network. I think all of my previous roles have pretty much come from networking and not from just cold applying online. Um, so do that. If you see things that look really good, but also make sure to talk to the people within your industry, within your network, because that's going to make a big difference. Yeah. I've seen that with my wife with Eileen Rivera. She's, she's looking for, for jobs as well. And it's the same thing where, uh, she comes across jobs that are like, well, I fit it, but would I be happy or that one looks interesting, but I'm not sure I fit it. Uh, and then a lot of times they're cold applications and they go nowhere. Whereas the ones that she ends up getting interviews for are things out of her network. Yeah. At the very least it's good experience to keep interviewing. Also do not underestimate what constitutes a network. It can be a friend, it can be a family member, but literally it can be anyone you've met throughout your entire career. Like that one person, that one, that one contact you've talked through through a networking event, it counts. That one person you talk through to get to get an assignment somewhere, it counts. Like literally anyone in your network counts to reach out to them to like get information out of or to get a job opportunity out of. Yeah. Well, thank you both for, uh, for, you know, sharing your, your thoughts and your experiences and your tips with folks really appreciate it. Happy to. Yeah. Let's check out the mail bag. Let's do it. We have the week with, uh, people sharing their EV experiences because boy, when we talk about EVs, y'all write in and we love it. Thoughts from both Andy and Alison shared and pointing out that while it does take longer to charge up an EV than to fill up gas in your car, you fill up less often if you charge overnight at home. In those cases, you almost never go to a charging station unless you're going on a longer trip. Andy put it, uh, well, saying, I've had a Ford, not really a Mustang, Mach E for about two years. It's amazing for my commute. I save a decent amount of money and time not having to stop at gas stations anymore. I set my max charging at 80% and start with a full tank every morning. Alison did the math, posted the results, uh, over on pod feet.com. We will have that link in our show notes as well. And Andy does agree that longer trips feel harder for him with the EV. He pointed, he pointed out the downside is a 1000 mile trip to Wisconsin. I think he lives in New Hampshire is not pleasant. If I was driving over multiple days, it would be great. No different than our regional trips here. However, my practice is driving straight through and what was a 14 to 17 hour trip in a nice car is 20 to 23 hour trip in the EV with that extended battery. So thank you to everybody for sharing their EV experiences with us. We always love when a story gets just a lot of attention and people really want to add to the conversation. So keep it coming. Feedback at daily tech news show.com. Indeed. All right. Throughout this show, Len Peralta has been using his imagination to make art happen. Len, what came out of your head? You know, 23 years ago, I was a casualty of 9 11 where I was let I was let go from my job. Gosh, Len. Geez. He'll put it that way. That was a good word. Maybe Christine might have shot that. No, my point is, is that I know what it feels like to let go and having to start all over again. That was 23 years ago. And I can't emphasize enough networking, networking and networking. And I agree 100%. Today's art is sort of kind of feeling a little bit like, I don't know if it's sad or anything, but if you're recently downsized in tech, you might feel like this. And it doesn't have to feel this way. You can make, I think you can make a very positive thing out of being let go and move into a totally different direction if you need to. So don't be afraid to do that as well. I speak from firsthand experience and, you know, it's tough, but you will find what you want to do. And for anybody listening, most I know most people are listening, not looking. You've got to go take a look at this art that Len did. The most pointer picking up a person that is about to be dropped into the recycle bin of a computer. That's exactly. Well done. Yes. And if you want to see it, you can go to my Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash Len, where you actually, if you join at the DTNS Lover level, you get this image or networking, of course, go to my online store, get it there, or hire me to do non-IAR at lenproldestore.com. Nicole Lee, always a pleasure. Let folks know what they can keep up with your latest. Yes. So I just created this like 10 minutes ago. So this is my like online portfolio. I'm still under construction somewhat, but this is like a very basic information about me and what I hope to bring this. Nicole Lee dot pro. Nicole Lee dot pro. That is a good URL. Veronica Belmont, always a pleasure as well. I wish I could hug you in person. It's been a long time, but let folks know where they can hug you virtually. I'm primarily on threads these days. So at Veronica, same as Instagram. You can find me on LinkedIn, Veronica Belmont is the handle over there and all my other stuff is linked from Veronica Belmont dot com. Excellent patrons stick around for the extended show, Good Day Internet. It's Friday and we have a special who am I quiz from Roger Chang, focused on famous folks who got fired, but then went on to become huge successes. Can you figure out who they are before the final clues stick around and play along with us? Just a reminder, you can catch our show live because we do it live Monday through Friday 4 p.m. Eastern 20 hundred UTC. Find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live. We're back on Monday with me come on for joining us. Have a great weekend everyone. This week's episodes of Daily Tech news show were created by the following people, host producer and writer Tom Merritt, host producer and writer Sarah Lane, executive producer and Booker Roger Chang, producer, writer and co-host Rob Dunwood, video producer and Twitch producer Joe Kuntz, technical producer Anthony Lemos, Spanish language host, writer and producer Dan Campos, science correspondent Dr. Nicky Ackermanns, social media producer and moderator Zoe Deterding. Our mods beatmaster W. Scottis one, Biocow, Captain Kipper, Steve Guadirama, Paul Reese, Matthew J. Stevens, a.k.a. Gadget Virtuoso and J.D. Galloway, modern video hosting by Dan Christensen, music and art provided by Martin Bell, Dan Looters, Mustafa A, A-Cast and Len Peralta, live art performed by Len Peralta, A-Cast ad support from Tatiana Matias, Patreon support from Tom McNeil and contributors for this week's shows included Chris Ashley, Ron Richards, Scott Johnson, Justin Robert Young, Veronica Belmont and Nicole Lee and thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com.