 With Allah's name, the Merciful Benefactor, the Merciful Redeemer, I'd like to welcome you back to part two of our conversation that we're having tonight. We're having a wonderful conversation. For those of you who were available for part one, you know it was a good conversation and we're going to extend that conversation, it was just that good. For those who might have missed the first part of our program, this program is a discussion on inner faith, inner faith in the Muslim community, between the Muslim community and others, with the central focus being the works of the leadership of Imam Wadath-e-Muhammad and how that work played out to create the inner faith world that we have here in America at least today, as well as other places on the planet. Very important that we as Muslims understand our relationship between other members of the faith community, as well as our responsibility to those who may benefit from the good relationships that we foster with other people of the faith that may not be people of faith at all. So tonight we're talking with three very experienced, very knowledgeable and committed Imams from the California area. We're talking to my extreme right, Imam Abu Qadir El-Amin and to his left we have Imam Anta Jannah and we have to his left Imam Rahib Abdul-Jabbar and I am Imam Mikhail Hamid Shabazz. I'm the only one actually not from the California area. I'm from the state of Oregon. I'm the director of the Organ Islamic Chaplains organization and an Imam in that area as well and a follower or student of Imam Wadath-e-Muhammad. So I would like to return our conversation as we concluded part one, Imam Abdul-Jabbar. We were discussing interfaith, intrafaith and the impact that is positive and sometimes contentious relationships that foster from that in part one and we just begin to address the issue of a more intimate nature and that is how do we as a faith community take life and the valuable engagements of life and move them to another level in all of three faith communities that I mentioned and I'm not excluding others but in the Judaic Christian and the Abrahamic Christian Muslim and Jewish communities the concept of marriage is solid. It's solid but there are also restrictions in the mechanics of marriage. Muslims are allowed to marry specific ways and to specific individual Muslims and there are also some restrictions and when we talk about interfaith and we talk about this working together, living together, sharing together at some point we're going to start loving each other together and that's going to lead to the desire to marry, the desire to procreate, the desire to move life to another level, the desire to move life to God's intended level. How do we handle that? What are the dynamics and mechanics of interfaith marriage among Muslims? Well that's a heavy question there brother and ma'am but as we know in the Abrahamic faith Judaism Christianity and Islam there are sciences or as we would call schools of thoughts in Arabic it's called meth-abs and coming from the tradition of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam we know that the Prophet peace and blessings of Allah be upon him married outside of the faith of Islam because at that particular time Islam was developing. It was in his early stages so when he married a Jew or a Coptic woman or Coptic Christian who believes in the monotheistic way of believing in God not in the trinitary concept those marriages was done for political reasons and to also bring tribes together. Where we are now in 2017 that is much more difficult to do from the aspect of Islam and the reason why I said that is because even though as you say we are get together in this that and the other and we're going to start loving each other in procreation even in the common sense of Islam if in our particular case we all four men in most marital conceptions the woman will most likely follow her man in that religion. Sometimes that is not possible or the people become very stubborn for lack of a better word in their orientation of their life in those particular instances you're going to have differences of opinion as far as how are we going to raise a child is the child as we as Muslims do not celebrate Christmas so are we going to allow our child to celebrate Christmas are we going to allow our child to go to church are we going to allow our child to do this and whereas the mother is saying something else so for us in Islam we have to adhere to the Quran and not be ashamed of that and in the Quran Allah tells us that a believing woman or a believing man is better but even Allah goes on to say that a slave a believing slave is better to marry than it is a non-believer so in this particular case we want it is more apt for us to have like minds in a family orientation there's already differences between the personalities and gender and what we are bringing from our experiences it's just in life itself you have these different experiences so when a brother is going after in this particular case from our religions perspective if a Muslim man is going after a woman that he has fell in love with and she may be of the church or something like that and most of the methabs of Islam it is more dutiful for him before he marries her to teach him to teach her the faith of Islam and allow her to convert to Islam on her own accord not that she has to but it would be more permissible in the sight of God for her to do that and in the Quran Allah tells us that the people of the book is permissible to us but that is taken out of context in the sense of we try to apply it to the same time frame as the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and that is not the time frame that we are living in at this particular time so just like in Judaism Jews cannot marry outside their religion you know Jehovah Witnesses cannot marry outside of their religion they would be excommunicated so that's why I premised what I said that there is a differences of opinion among some Muslims but the majority of the scholars say that that woman has to be a believing woman and vice versa if a Muslim female wanted to marry a non-Muslim male in order for her to marry that man he would have to convert to Islam so and even in that aspect you have an interfaith dialogue absolutely because there's going to be a dialogue about what you believe in what I believe so yes absolutely excellent excellent well this is important because as we move through the discussion phase and the imams have have addressed the fact that it's beyond narrative it is now into work it's an interrelationship sent to the mechanics of life we're in society and these things are very important particularly with with all members of the society but particularly with the young young members of society because of the cross-pollination that goes on everywhere and sometimes it can be problematic we have in the workings of the man what a team Hamid who was the we would say he's the forerunner I would like to say in Portland as a student of the ma'am early on when he said do it we just did it we weren't close to him physically but we follow everything he said he said get involved in it understand it and know why you're doing it and go do it and I our community moved in that direction started moving in the interfaith following the crate movements followed all the things we were supposed to do and later on things started to happening around the world and in America and you know some events took place that catastrophic events and a lot of people started to come out some of those who may have been critical of some of the the forward thinking of the man with the Muhammad and the movement of interfaith as well as the supporting of the values of patriotism some what may have been critical of that but after certain events took place and we realized just where we were that we were in the den of leopards wearing leopard coats so we'd better get it together okay many people then began to address the the need to not just be present but to engage and to make their intentions and the intentions of our faith known in terms of where we stand as a faith community that became known I used to say we were country before country will cool following man what I'm in that lead in my entire jannah we know that in this faith this interfaith work and this is really what we're talking about and and how it has grown in relationships that have come out of it even on the political level I can recall when the man what if the Mohammed was first embraced by Orrin hatch you know a starch staunch as you say Republican conservative and that was kind of like a jolt of lightning you know that the Republican would care anything about Muslim but he praised the work of our community very much there were others there were others prominent people people that are not whimsical thinkers people that had a lot to invest in terms of their or lot to lose in terms of their name their credibility they're standing in their own communities that stepped out and embraced the man what if the Mohammed and the message more so that I want to focus on the message that he was delivering and one of those people was Dr. Robert sure yes of the crystal cathedral can you you've had some experience and close working in that yeah and but but also you know Dalai Lama I mean the man that would like to say prominent ladies very very good friends with the Dalai Lama Pope John Paul to but Robert Schuller we were with the man in Merino Valley and he was invited Robert Schuller was invited to address our youth and it was a Saturday night and that's remember the incident I was sitting at the Imam's table we were he hadn't come in yet the security hadn't brought him in yet and so Robert Schuller started his talk and he told the people he said I don't do engagements on Saturday night he said I got the power hour power on Sunday morning he said never do engagements on Saturday night if you said but for your leader for the Imam Muhammad that's why I'm here and he was given a speech he's a motivational speaker he wrote the book possibility thinking yes and and he was to give into a speech and he was really really rolling and all of a sudden he just stopped right in the middle of his speech and everybody was one like what's what's what happened and then he left the podium he the people in the audience couldn't see Imam Muhammad it can't just came in the room he got off the podium walked down to meet the Imam the embracing then they hugged and people could take pictures they got back up they started the speech again you know he just said hey I take a pause I agree to the man you know and and people don't realize you know he was the man that that Clinton when he became president that was his pastor he brought in Robert Schuller and and the Imam Muhammad and Robert Schuller were really good friends really good friends and a lot of people don't don't realize that the relationship that Imam Muhammad had with Dr. Schuller the Dalai Lama great leaders all you know all around the world I mean in Palestine and Israel and everywhere else he pioneered that overlapping no matter what your faith was I remember he said remember he made a statement once he was getting an award from Christian leader he said I hope I am to you a good Christian as you are to be a good apostle that's the kind of thing he would say to people you know well you know thinking of that when you when you shared that with us the thought that went to my mind was the friendship and the recognition of Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam by the Nugusa Nagas of Abyssinia you know he recognized the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam for what he was and what he is and this was a Christian leader yes this was a Christian leader and I think it's important that we continue to dig build expose revisit these the the history of Prophet Muhammad and his Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam and the history of the Imam Wadateem Muhammad to really understand the value and that the Quran itself speaks clearly and today in today's world more than ever more than any other time that I can remember we need to have honest serious conversation everyone needs to know exactly where they stand because they are elements they're elements that are powerful elements that would have nothing to do with what we're talking about in terms of cooperation and would use every excuse in the world to turn us against each other Imam Abdul Qadir what do you think Abu Qadir pardon me what do you think or how do you perceive the perception and why did people respond to Imam Wadateem Muhammad why did the Dalai Lama why did the Sierra Lubbock of the the Fakhlaari movement why did these prominent leaders people with these these movements what was it that they had in common with the message they wouldn't they did not convert to Islam as we practice Islam but they stood publicly and their followings came what do you think they saw in Imam Wadateem Muhammad's message that inspired them to stand with him I heard a mom from Portland who is actually from Africa introduce Imam Wadateem Muhammad actually he was the keynote speaker at event where Imam Muhammad was being given a public address the next day and it was important and one of the things that I observed at that particular gathering the the Christians and the non-Muslims outnumbered the Muslims four to one at that particular event and at the public address and one of the things that the Imam mentioned was that Imam Wadateem Muhammad was a visionary leader and he was a transcendent transcendent transcendent excuse me for stumbling over that word a transcendent leader so he thought outside the structures and his sincerity was rewarded and it connected with other people who also were sincere and I think the fact that he had vision for Islam that was not within the traditional thinking of the old world nor was it in the confines of the special community that he grew up in known as nation of Islam that his father led and I think because he thought outside of all of that framework he was able to connect with the vision of Muhammad the prophet peace be upon him and use his own authentic self to introduce that from himself not from other people's structured thinking like with the math haves the math haves is develop address in certain circumstances that existed in those environments the word math have comes from a word the hubba which means to see which way you go it went that way well it went that way because it was on a hill so parking on a hill you're gonna have some different rules about parking on a hill than you would on flat ground so those differences came out of a particular environment he man Muhammad was wise enough to know that we're in this environment we have to design our efforts respecting the environment in the community that we're in and I think he was visionary in that aspect and he wanted to see us make our contribution for authentic selves not to dress like we were from somewhere else but to develop our own taste develop our own food develop our own schools develop build our own businesses looking at how other people recognize the ma'am deputy Muhammad I don't know of any other Muslim leaders in America or the world who've been on the front phrase of the Wall Street Journal except he ma'am deputy Muhammad because of his efforts to evolve our community economically to be responsible for developing business and and and and and and and transforming poor communities into productive communities so he was recognized for that and people love champions you know people love champions people love people who face great odds and and win over against those great some people thought he wouldn't last three years with his work of transforming the nation of Islam to bring us to the universal message of Islam and people originally they were criticizing him and he came forward and he said I hear the critics and the Quran said don't fear the criticism sizing of the criticizes you know he said they're trying to tell me about this baby that's being born the baby hasn't even been born yet and they're saying it's ugly it hasn't even came out so give us time and and time has proven that his methodology was was proper not only was it proper for us now we see the rest of the Muslim community I'll say immigrant community who are now seeing the wisdom of him being patriotic when it wasn't out of expediency when he picked up the flag when many of us were having a hard time even some of us had a hard time with him picking up the flag because we have a history and we have a relationship with the flag and with this country but he was saying it's still our country so we have to accept it and and then make our contribution to making it better so because of his courage because of his faith I believe he he won a lot of admirers and supporters because of his deep conviction and his sincerity beautiful and humility I can't I can't leave that out because out of leaders that I've met around the world he was such a humble person he wasn't he didn't have he didn't have big entourage you know even when he was threatened he said well there's no guards at my house I emptied the garbage I go to the store he was not a fearful man he was courageous and uh he stood up for his beliefs well once again time has taken its right over us and moved us right on to the point where we are about to wrap up this this section but before we do I think it's only fitting proper since I am the host even though I'm a visitor that uh I'd like to give each Imam time for a few closing words on the subject from your own perspective and your choice starting with my Imam here to my right Imam Raqib Abdul-Jabbar MashaAllah thank you for coming down and hosting the show for us brother Imam and we we pray a lot to Allah your trip here is is good and and Allah brings you back to your family and good health and good spirit but on that note we was talking about two things interfaith our desire to keep that type of dialogue present in our in our works because it's a part of us that's why I said it just comes down to just dialogue for us it's just it's just something that we do one of the things that I've heard about uh chaplains Muslim chaplains in the prison systems that we work harder than any other chaplains that's there because we we handle everybody where the other chaplains will refuse to uh preside over or just organize a Juma or we would go to the Wiccans we would go to the agnostics we would go to those who even satan worshipers even though we don't like it we would still get them their time in the chapel and organize so that's that's our thing it just comes natural to us we make our prayers and we ask Allah to forgive us if we are doing anything wrong the other thing was Imam W.D. Muhammad Rahim Allah may Allah be pleased with him forgive him his shortcomings and his sins and grant him paradise we have to recognize I think as a people we have to recognize our leaders and it's something that Abdul Qadir said we don't need he didn't say it but and for what I heard my in my ears we don't need validation Allah has brought us to this Dean by his right God has brought everybody to their heart and to their faith and you should be sincere in your heart to that faith and live it to the best of your ability and that's what Imam Muhammad's main message was if you won't be Muslim the Prophet Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam peace and blessings of Allah be upon him said whenever a Muslim decides to do something or he's entering something he enters it to perfect it so we are all struggling to perfect it and that is a universal statement for anybody no matter what their faith is thank you Imam Antajana I think like you said dialogue having dialogue is education and and when people have dialogue with Muslims I was a chaplain for 20 years also in the California Department of Corrections Native American Catholic Protestant we all work together you know we we and I think it was the closest relationship that I'd ever had with in a faith being a chaplain but the Imam is the one who came into the California Department of Corrections and explained to the directors of his prison what Islam is and that's when the Muslim chaplain came into because of Imam Muhammad they came in we started the chaplaincy and so I think education the more dialogue we have people find out that you know go back to the Sumerian society go back to the Egyptian society and bring it all the way up you know through Judaism Christianity and they see Islam as a progression is just the latest it's a progression of the same message the exact same message you know and and the more people have interacted with as fast as growing religion in America sort of you know and you know what's happening in England but the more people get in touch with Muslims and find out who they are they find out it's not like on CNN it's not Al Qaeda it's not it's not a terrorism it's not ISIS Prophet Muhammad was invented humane warfare you know Napoleon Hill said that in his book Thinking Rich you know he invented humane warfare and so there's rules of engagement and what they're saying overseas is not Prophet Muhammad. Thank you thank you. Thank you I think the dialogue for us is natural it's important human beings have to communicate with one another and because we're in this peculiar circumstance that we're in we need more communication because we need to clarify much of the misinformation that is being expressed about Islam and about us as a people and about the intent purpose of Islam we are not trying to dominate other people but we believe we have a right to establish our life as we see fit within the confines of this government we have no ill intent toward overtaking the government except that we want to make the government better and there are some areas of the government that needs improvement just like some of our streets need improvement we're not mad at streets but we don't want to hit potholes and the same thing with the functions of government on a higher level we don't want to run into things that that that are injurious to the citizens of this country and the world citizenry as well so we're in a unique position I remember when uh one of the times I first got involved with interfaith work in the early 90s where it was more intense with the san francisco foundation's leadership group interfaith leadership group and uh I explained why I was there I said he ma'am W.D. Muhammad explained uh encouraged us to do this work and so I'm here following his footsteps I don't know much about it but I want to be involved and I remember a Jewish lady said we've been looking for you and we're still close friends so uh it's a pleasure and Islam has made family life of african-americans much better I just like to close on that note many of our families have become improved as a result of living up to the standards of Islam. Alhamdulillah well thank you all very much my Allah bless you and I'm going to close with a statement from the reporter that the prophet Muhammad SAW said the best of you are those who are most useful to society let's be useful peace be unto you As-salamu alaykum.