 There's two part types of people one who makes excuses and one who goes vegan Yeah, well listen. We need veganism dog All right, so here we are back out here in Manchester. We've got the same sign There's no argument against being vegan prove me wrong Obviously there are scenarios where it's impossible to be vegan survival. You know, you can't choose what you eat You're in some situation where you know, you can't get vegan food some place in the desert or something like that But I'm talking about right here right now in the UK the person who sits down Why aren't they vegan and what's their argument for that? Let's do it People showed I think it's good for the environment and I think it's good for the environment and I've watched Earthlings as well. Yeah, I've been be I've been vegetarian for since I was 16 nearly five years Just the cheese I can't get rid of even though I don't like the way it's produced Well, what about vegan cheese? I hate it Every single time I can't remember what it's called, but I just don't like it. It's like Just plain. I don't know. Just types that you try. I wonder if you've tried them all I've definitely not tried them all By a life, I don't like why a lot But I'm still I found some cheese that I like I like that from from this goes. Have you tried that? Do you think like you don't like the vegan cheese, but the animals don't like to be exploited and killed so how do you weigh that up like I Wait on my Wait on my own girl like if I feel guilty eating an animal, but I don't feel guilty cheese or milk Let's unpack that because like Why do you feel guilty for an animal to be slaughtered so you can eat their body? But all the dairy cows are slaughtered so someone else can eat their body And that's the day the dairy industry is doing that to them I've just not educated enough that looks into the production of dairy I've got footage here. I can't prepare you don't have time Do you want to watch it? She's not Do you want to see what happens in the dairy industry in the UK? It just tastes nice, so I don't care anyway So you wouldn't care if animals are abused because it tastes good. I mean Well regardless if I eat it or not the next person's gonna eat it, so they're gonna die anyway Well, I mean I could say that like people are gonna be killed anyway So regardless if I kill them or not, they're still gonna die anyway Like I might as well just keep killing them might as well not still stop killing people people are always gonna be killed I've said I would go like vegetarian eat doing it meant that No, one of us would die but either way they're gonna get killed Dogs are always gonna be abused. I mean, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't stop abusing dogs yourself I I stopped I don't abuse dogs because of my contribution to dog abuse So I don't eat animal products or use animal products because of my contribution to animal abuse. You know what I mean? They're just gonna die either way so well humans are gonna die either way as well What I'm saying to you is people die in war. They die of starvation They die because people other people kill them that doesn't mean you go around killing people because people are gonna die anyway I'm talking about your personal accountability your responsibility the blood that's on your hands when you go out and eat these animal products and Because you know about supply and demand chain. Hey, you're causing these to exist. Yeah Yeah, but the 50% of the beef in this country 50% like half the beef comes from dairy cows I do try honestly, I do try go vegan a lot I do I've actually tried like four times this year and I didn't do yeah, I've done to I did two months in January then I did another month in Yeah, two months of vegan as well It's okay It's just gonna show you like how how dare he's made so this is a male They put an electro ejaculator in their bottom Is it true that they may come pregnant So they can let me explain to you Let me explain to you like he's they've taken the semen they forced him to ejaculate now They're sticking their their entire arm inside of the anus of the cow To hold her cervix so they can put the pip full of bull semen inside of her to forcibly impregnate her So they can so they can create a child like a calf and then take that calf away Because if they leave the calf with the mum They're taking the calves away because if they leave the calf with the mother the calf will drink the milk But they want to sell the milk to you guys So this here is um on uk difference that they use the males generally they can but they generally don't so they shoot them on the farm So they shoot them in the head That's legal standard practice here 90,000 I think it's about 90,000 a shot on the in the head on the farm each year in the uk and this is a this is a dairy calf slaughterhouse I honestly didn't know that happened. This was filmed in Australia, but they're not using the males as well when Australia like I didn't think people died for dairy. I thought they only died for the meat. Yeah, I thought they kept dairy cows Honestly where they're going to keep them like in farms. They only produce milk for a certain amount of years Then they become unprofitable. They they they're project How For dairy they live for about between four and seven years But they live that their lifespan is about 25 but a beef cow might live for 18 months and they're slaughtered but um It's just grim in it as well. Like the fact that it's last near their bone And like poo and so far it's just grim This is a dairy cow being slaughtered Oh So they exploit her reproductive organs her still her breast milk still her children then they murder her and for her body Do I feel so like just because I think I couldn't kill my own I couldn't kill an animal Myself so why would I kill it? Like why would I let someone else kill it? You're paying someone to kill him for you when you buy all these dairy products over your course of your life I do try and go vegan. I do promise that you look like you can't watch that It is horrible But it's a but cheese tastes good. I don't eat cheese actually Too many calories. You mean you don't you don't eat cheese now. No, I don't really like cheese Chicken it's chicken alike the most. Yeah, yeah birds Yeah, yeah birds What about the christmas time you're gonna be eating turkeys? No But turkeys uh, so chickens are one of the most exploited and killed animals on earth um After fish fish are the most but yeah Yeah, but I don't know like it just These are who you're eating I've seen see I told you about this then uh How they look like when they die they just leave them there to like when you eat a chicken. They're about six weeks old They're only babies Oh Yeah, when you eat a broiler chicken, they're about six weeks old They're ducks in the okay, because they should be on water so they This is a semen collection for turkeys because they can't make themselves so they artificially do it Chicken tastes good that's my opinion chicken tastes good chickens taste good. Yeah. Yeah You're eating uh like slaughtered baby chickens. They're about 42 days old. They taste good. Yeah I mean, do you think do you not like kfc? I used to yeah I used to Wait a second You don't think that I like the taste of kfc. I used to yeah A lot of things feel good that hurt other people I don't want to do them a lot of things feel good that hurt animals I don't want to do that Like it doesn't hurt. Well, you're gonna die anyway. I don't want to torture you and kill you because you taste good Just kill me quick horrible. If I fried you up like kfc, you'd probably taste good too. I wouldn't do it to you though If I died, please make me into are you against animal cruelty? Yeah, I'm against you are animal cruelty. Yeah, but you wait a second. You like kfc. Yeah, but that's not the point I'm saying it's food When you pay for when you pay for kfc, you're paying for animal cruelty Yeah, but it's not I'm not paying this. You know what I'm talking about. It's called supply and demand How I feel about it is you're paying to get food. You're paying to eat A product of that food is cruelty. So your friend here is trying to be honest with himself. You're trying to find a way out There's two part types of people one who makes excuses and one who goes vegan Yeah, well listen, we need veganism. It's dumb. I wouldn't ask you It's about being anti-animal abuse. That's what veganism is. No, yes, it is. I've been a vegan for seven years Yeah, but that's so I know what veganism is. Yeah, but it's not because it's a position against the exploitation and cruelty to animals That's all it is towards animals because I want to eat. Do I mean what am I going to eat plants? I'm not eating plants Why not? It tastes like ass Vegan burgers taste like ass. Yeah Have you had them? No, the tea is fine. I'll be on burger. Yeah, right off the tea is fine Quorn tastes all right. So taste over life then. Yeah, taste over the animal suffering You think oh, you're gonna die anyway. Should we kill you? Yeah, we're not going through this. I don't think it's It's not that they're gonna die. Look at the way they're dying. They're dying in Well, that's not my fault. They're not dying naturally if you went and ate They could just shoot them all and it'll be dead Do what do you think of his position here shoot them all I don't know. I mean I Still think that it's okay to eat animals, but I don't think they should be I think they should kill them in a Different way a humane way Well, I mean you could say there's no humane way to kill, but I think it could be done differently. So they They don't they don't realize They don't realize the suffering. I mean We when we talk about ethics and like when you talk about murder in the court of law If you killed someone without them realizing it would still be murder would still hold them accountable for that. Yeah Well, yeah, but I mean I don't I don't hold animals at the same Value as humans you don't have to You just have to hold them higher than your that's your taste preferences or your convenience just their lives over there those two things Yeah, but I even The even to differentiate between animals and plants isn't really totally fair because plants even have consciousness A consciousness comes from the brain plants don't have brains Well, no, you're you're locked into a mindset that just sees consciousness in terms of nervous systems But I know they're living organisms and they respond to stimuli in the environment I know about that, but they don't feel anything because they don't perceive themselves They don't they don't have a there's no subject in there. So they don't they don't need rights We don't know that for a fact. Yes, we do. No, we don't the russian state experiments on animal on plants Using a lie detector machine. Yeah that and also they've shown that plants have memory in recent times I know that I know that but but this computer has memory. The computer is not sentient Well What I'm saying is you're making assumptions on the part of the plant and no it's scientific because Most scientists think that plant studies are paranormal studies The plant why would a plant React against somebody that's just killed it a day before if it didn't have some kind of feelings No, no, it's a it's a response like a they respond to stimuli, but they're not having a con Do you know I I don't believe that I think okay So do you hold a carrot on the same level as a human being? No more than I hold No more than I hold No more than I hold a cockroach On the same level I would say a cockroach has more complex experience in a carrot I would say that a pig has more complex experience in a carrot. I wouldn't bet on it especially with Something like a venous fly trap. Can I ask you a question? So you said animals should be killed in a nice way Do you think carrots should be killed in a nice way? Well I want to find out if you really think plants feel pain Well, I I think there is some some form of consciousness shumain slaughter of carrots That's what you'd advocate for you'd want slaughter guidelines for carrots Well, I think you're really muddling that the issue what I'm saying is what I'm saying is that there's You can't make a There isn't a clear Distinction in terms of consciousness between plants and animals Simply because they they don't have nervous systems doesn't mean they don't feel pain You know, I will I can test that they don't have nervous system a brain functioning Pain receptors. They don't They don't they don't even have a biological way of escaping pain because they haven't evolved to because they don't need to But fish and and animals they all have a way of escaping pain. They suffer Plants can't suffer because there's no individual inside of their suffering They've shown that some plants actually do respond in that way. They try so when you cut a tomato I'm sure you do it really quickly so they don't feel it You know what I'm saying is they they have a they form a response and they So does this computer when I tap it it doesn't mean it's a sentient being Well plants have shown their ability to respond. I never said they didn't I never said they didn't so Well, well plants are living aren't they but they're not sentient or conscious There's no being there's no being in there that deserves a moral consideration Well, that's where we differ okay, because you think that you think there should be humane slaughter guidelines for pigs But you don't think there should be humane slaughter guidelines for potatoes I'm not sure how I'd go about that. You know if I was choosing but for pigs I can I can make it distinct. I can actually think of a way to do it. Who suffers more a potato or a pig Well, I don't know I'd not in the Okay, well I'll say a pig and if someone tortured a pig I'd be the first to defend the pig if someone cut up a potato. I don't care. I think that's nonsense the scientific community is against Plants having consciousness, but they do say they respond and react to stimuli they have they do remember things like they they do they do Like if a drop of water lands on a leaf the leaf might Know that that drop isn't gonna harm it and it might stay there But that doesn't mean that the plant is a thinking feeling conscious being who has emotions and wants and desires and needs No, it was a cow we talked about plants feeling pain, but um, you might still think that a carrot deserves rights. I mean Like I say I put those plants on a similar level to what I would insects Or bacteria for that matter bacteria is not sentient Germs aren't sentient I don't know what you think sentience is but like There is some primitive sentience even in protozoa I don't think it germs the same as a dog or a pig. So that's right. That's right. And I don't think it I don't think it plant. You know, I don't think it plants or lower Lower organisms the same way. I don't think it carrots the same as a dog If someone tortured a dog I'd attack them probably defend the dog But I don't think carrots can be tortured. I mean if you think that that you can have that position But I don't I don't hold that position Where I disagree with you chaps is in the area of animal experimentation I think we need to have animal experimentation Talk about that, but do you need a bacon sandwich? I'm vegetarian, but okay dairy and egg still I do eat dairy sometimes. Yeah. We just went through the dairy industry with these guys all the yeah Do you need a cheese burger or a cheese sandwich or a cheese and crackers? Once or twice a year What I'm saying is is that I don't think that type of stuff brings you that bad Hey plus, bless you Hey, take one of these if you you guys had the discussion I don't know if you think carrots feel pain I enjoy eating meat. I'm not gonna are you gonna change? Are you gonna stop? Are you gonna stop eating me? I'd like to