 So I want to start by sincerely thanking the Department of Foreign Affairs for the invaluable support they give us generally for our future proofing Europe project and in particular for this, as I say, short series that we're having this week on EU enlargement. We're delighted, as you've noticed, to be joined today by Peter Burke, TD, Minister of State Responsibility for EU Affairs and Defence, a post which he has held since December 2022. Peter's been a TD for Longford Westmead since 2016. Prior to his current ministerial role, he served as Minister of State Responsibility for local government and planning. That was between July 2020 and December 2022. So Minister Burke will speak to us for about 20 minutes or so, give or take, and we'll go to a Q&A. Minister is under some pressure, understandably, so we will have to finish before four o'clock. So I'm going to make sure that happens, I'm afraid. So if we get a chance for questions or observations, please keep them tight because we will actually have to finish before four in order to facilitate just the way the world is. And we have to ensure that the Minister can get back, I think, to the House shortly after four. So he'll be leaving before four. You can join if you're watching us, if you're with us in the sort of Zoom world, you'll be able to watch what's being said and throw in a question as well on the Q&A function that you're all very familiar with now. This is all on the record, the presentation, the Q&A, everything else. So no secrets here today. We're delighted to welcome Peter Burke to address you, your board welcome. Thank you, Alex, your Excellencies, distinguished ladies and gentlemen. It's been a pleasure to be here this afternoon. And unfortunately we are tight for time because we have to address the consultative forum on defence in the House, which is another very important area that our country faces right now in a very difficult time through hybrid threats as we're all very much aware of. The European Union has come a long way since a small group of countries, weary from years of war, pledged to pool together their resources of coal and steel, thus committing to peace and prosperity by working together in a collaborative spirit. Over the past 70 years, we have established a tradition of making brave decisions in order to advance peace and prosperity in Europe. There is, however, perhaps every once in a while, a moment when the European Union needs to give some serious thought into its inner workings and to the road ahead. With war once again on our continent and at our borders, and after grappling with a global pandemic, unlike anything we have seen in a generation, there is no doubt that at this one stage it is such moment. The decisions we make here and now will determine how we future-proof Europe. 50 years ago, Ireland benefited from the EU's very first enlargement. The last half a century of our European Union membership has transformed our economy and society and added to our global influence more than we could ever have imagined. We believe that every European country deserves that same opportunity, providing they meet the criteria of its membership. Holding the presidency of the EU in 2004, Ireland oversaw the EU's largest ever enlargement, welcoming 10 member states to our community. It is a legacy that we are very proud of, and one we wish to build upon. The enlargement of the European Union has taken on a renewed significance and urgency since Russia's further illegal invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, and the subsequent membership applications by Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia. After years of stagnation on enlargement policy, the invasion has reminded us, perhaps rather obviously, of the clear need for continuing ever closer cooperation between the EU and our partners in the western Balkans, in Turkey, and of course in the eastern partnership region. As we respond to this new geopolitical reality, we need also to remember that EU enlargement has to be a merit-based process, driven by reforms coming from within candidate countries themselves. This is essential for the continued good functioning of the Union, as we have seen from the Commission's annual enlargement package of reports, all 10 candidate and potential candidate countries have more work to do progressing reforms. The report points to the commendable efforts by Ukraine and Moldova and quickly to enact those reforms, while for others it seems there is a higher gear they need to find. It is our responsibility to help them in that endeavour. There are a range of instruments and initiatives, such as the new growth plan for the western Balkans, which will allow us to contribute to and accelerate the assiduous work that has been done within candidate countries. Implementing a session reforms is no mean task, and we, the EU, must acknowledge this and support partners accordingly. At each previous wave of enlargement, there were those who said it would weaken our Union, and at each previous wave of enlargement, they were proved wrong. I am confident that the next steps of enlargement, whatever form it takes, will also strengthen our Union and our place in the world. And I hope that, at the next General Affairs Council and European Council in December, we will be able to take some important decisions that move us closer to that next phase. The question is no longer if, but when and how. Therefore, we need to continue to build on this momentum. We have to be consistent in supporting countries which share our common EU values. We are more secure and prosperous together, and we are all stronger together. EU enlargement will continue to be a topical issue as Ireland takes next steps in rotating presidency of the European Union in the second half of 2026. This will be an important opportunity for Ireland to drive forward a positive policy agenda for the Union as a whole. We have a proud tradition of delivering effective and valuable compromises for the greater good. The role of the rotating presidency has changed and evolved with the Union itself, as has the role of the other key institutions, including the European Parliament. The ability to change and grow, to accommodate, to learn is at the heart of the European project. It is also at the heart of Ireland's approach to the challenges and opportunities that are no doubt ahead for what will be our eighth term in the presidency chair. With Ireland's strong support of the EU enlargement comes a recognition that, once again, we need to begin to think seriously about the changes that may be necessary to facilitate the further growth in our institutions. The Grenada Declaration, agreed by leaders of the informal European Council in October, calls for EU member states to undertake the necessary internal groundwork and reform in parallel with candidates. This is an acknowledgement that enlargement will entail hard work for all involved. No one is under any illusion that there will be significant challenges as well as opportunities with future enlargement. However, its overall strategic importance and the ultimate benefits which it will bring in extending peace, prosperity and democracy to our immediate neighbors surely cannot be doubted. We therefore warmly welcome the Commission's intention to carry out a wide-ranging series of pre-enlargement assessments on individual programs and sectors. This will be an important first step into sensitizing both EU governments and citizens as to what will be required from us all in order to address the historic challenge of competing our union and through its expansion. The implications of enlargement will be wide-ranging and will not just concern budget and programs. We will also have to look at our own internal capacities and decision-making processes. This certainly applies to the issue of qualified majority voting and calls for its greater use. We are open to discussing possible greater use of QMV in areas such as common foreign and security policy while also recognizing at some time that it is an issue on which there will be diverging views among our partners. One cannot doubt the value of the EU speaking with an agreed collective voice in the international arena. This has been already visibly demonstrated during the current horrific crisis in Israel and Gaza and equally in relation to Ukraine. We have seen how collective strength of the EU in supporting Ukraine has resulted in an unprecedented level of sanctions being imposed against Russia and as a result of its unjust aggression. There is power in a unique, united voice. Protecting the world we live in is perhaps the most fundamental way of the future proof of Europe. Ireland strongly supports the aims and ambition of the Commission's fit for 55 package. The EU 2030 target of at least 55% emissions reduction is the key. Our priority is ensuring that 55% not only meets our own climate ambitions but is delivered collectively by the EU 27. We strongly support the European Union's vision towards a climate neutral Europe by 2050, as set out in the European Green Deal. Decarbonization is not only an environmental necessity, it is now also an economic one. Decarbonizing existing industries while enabling growth and innovation in green sectors is therefore a priority. This will lead to not only lower emissions but to warmer homes, cleaner air, cheaper energy and prosperous and resilient economy. The future of Europe is digital. Ireland's national digital strategy is a high-level framework that sets out the pathway to drive and enable the digitalization to access the economy and society needs. Through digital transformation we will be able to maximize the well-being of our citizens, the productivity and innovation of our enterprise as well as the overall competitiveness and sustainability. Our objective is that at least 90% of all our SMEs reach at least the basic level of digital intensity by 2030. We also want at least 75% of enterprises to be using cloud, AI and big data by 2030. Embracing digital technologies is crucial for our continued economic growth and prosperity as well as contributing to climate action. A competitive, innovative and resilient enterprise base is essential to provide high quality jobs and employment opportunities for people to live and prosper in all regions. As the EU takes these existential decisions, it is more important than ever that the voices of all the EU 27 are heard. Ireland is facing a challenging time as regards representation in the EU institutions. We are currently underrepresented at key policy grades in the Commission and are due to further lose a large proportion of our AD staff in the next four years due to retirements. Ensuring a fair representation of Irish people in the EU institutions and bodies is a priority for Ireland and an issue of political importance. Ireland wants Irish officials in the EU institutions to bring the perspective of Ireland to the policymaking process to ensure EU policymaking takes different viewpoints and political sensitivities into consideration and to represent the citizens of Ireland. For over a decade now, we have been actively working to promote EU careers to an Irish audience. These actions have intensified since the government launched Ireland's EU career strategy, a career for EU in May 2021. As part of the strategy, the government is encouraging Irish people to apply for posts in the EU, equipping candidates with the skills needed to succeed in EU competitions and lobbying for the reform of the EU's recruitment process. The strategy target is the 50 Irish citizens will have secured posts at entry level and above by 2030. We are also increasing funding for the number of seconded national experts in strategically relevant areas of the EU and actively engaging with Irish universities to ensure that young Irish citizens can play their part in shaping the future of the EU. Ireland has a proud legacy of making a valuable contribution to the European project through the EU public service and we seek to continue this proud tradition as we look to some of the challenges and opportunities that will define the next 50 years of our membership. One such issue which the EU is confronting and is likely to do for some time is that of migration. It is profoundly a difficult topic and represents a huge priority for many of our partners, particularly frontline states such as Italy, Greece, Spain and Cyprus. The EU, under successive presidencies, is investing enormous efforts to improve the situation. Real progress has been made under the Swedish and Spanish presidencies. A comprehensive approach is required, which can address the many facets of this situation, including compliance with our international and legal obligations. Progress has been made to advance the negotiations of the pact on migration and asylum, which has been under discussion for a number of years. All the major elements of the proposed pact are now subject to the trilogue negotiations with the European Parliament. There is a real access across the institutions and determination to reach agreement on the various elements making up the pact. Ireland has offered our full support to the EU efforts to progress negotiations. We recognise the advance which an agreement can be found on the overall pact would represent in enabling and equipping the EU to deal with migratory pressures in our comprehensive, efficient and indeed humane fashion, which fully accords with our international obligations. We have to address the root causes of migration. This includes working more closely and divesting mutually beneficial partnerships with third countries of origin and transit. This is particularly pertinent in areas such as effective migration management and facilitating returns in full respect of fundamental human rights. Opening up legal pathways for migrants will also play a part in reducing irregular and forced migration. We should also continue to try to ensure development age, which the EU and member states provide, goes to the purposes it is intended for, which is seeking to promote development, reduce poverty in target countries. Migration is perhaps a topic that best encapsulates the title of this address. In that it is, in fact, both a challenge and an opportunity for the future of Europe. As our union continues to grow, we must continue to drive forward and work together in the European spirit of helping our neighbours, helping those who need it. The European project is just that, a project. It is something we must continuously work on. We should not be blind to the reality that further engagement on enlargement will inevitably require work, some of which may be at times challenging. But we should also remember that there is no better tool for future proof in Europe than bringing our neighbours into the fold. In fact, it is not only just self-interest that should guide us, I believe also there is a moral case for us to do so. The EU is more than just a single market. It is a coming together of ideals and values. How we adapt to continue to reflect those ideals and values is the next challenge. But I am confident that we can face this challenge and show again that the European Union is the most successful peacetime project in the history of our continent. Thank you very much for that minister. It just occurred to me as you were speaking, particularly at the outset, when you were just recalling the, I suppose, just broadly the history of the European Union, why it was set up, what the ideals were behind it. And of course Ireland was, if you like, the beneficiary of an enlargement 50 years ago. That was an enlargement as well, from six to nine. I see the Danish ambassadors here, if I'm not mistaken, there was the other country that joined on that occasion sadly has now left. But we were part of an enlargement then, and then there have been other enlargements since. And I'm just wondering how we should kind of think about Ireland's role in the European Union as a small country. We've always been a small country on the periphery. Well, geographically on the periphery, whatever about, whether we're really our peripheral country in terms of our influence. And if there's to be an even further enlargement, which would bring in perhaps up to 10 countries, we're becoming a smaller and smaller proportion if we're to look at it in that crude way. I mean, our influence has always been there, but how do you just look, how should we look at the future and Ireland's role and influence in the European Union if it's going to grow in that way? Thank you, Alex. The first thing I would say about Ireland as a country, not only in Europe, but in diplomatic circles right around the globe, our influence has always dramatically outweighed our size. And that's because of strong diplomatic policies we've really invested in our diplomatic core network right throughout the globe. And we can see in Europe how on many occasions we've been the catalyst for positive change, being at the forefront of positive compromises, assisted countries and coming together in the hope of strengthening the Union and underscoring peace. And I think we've an exceptionally strong track record on that. You can see when we're president in 2004, where 10 countries came into our Union, again where we were at the forefront assisting those countries. But I think every year, every term, every cycle presents huge opportunities, and we as a Union have to grasp those opportunities, because in some of those very areas in our neighbourhood, in our backyard, there is always subject for other influences to get in. I think it's so important that Europe is there first, is there in a strong capacity. We see the package that President von der Leyen has now announced in the Western Balkans. Again, that's going to be key in showing those six countries that the European Union is serious. We want you in our Union and we believe your addition will provide greater diversity and value to us. And exactly that with the Eastern Trio. They were working so hard with Moldova, Georgia and Ukraine in the work that they are doing, trying to progress their path into the Union. And these would all come with challenges, but I think we will be the greater for it, for their inclusion, and which is so important to give other countries the chance that we have got. We have seen over 50 years such drastic change in our culture, society, our economy. People live in a decade more than they were 50 years ago. Transformation in our public infrastructure, all that has been such a positive by being a member of the European project, and we're very keen that others should get that chance. I'm scanning the room for people who might want to ask you a question, and while I'm waiting to see some hands, which I've now seen over here. I have a couple of questions. I have one or two on Zoom as well, but we'll favor the room first. Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Nani. I'm coming from Creation Embassy. Minister, thank you very much for this very informative speech. I have just one quick question. Is there a plan for Ireland to open an embassy in some country of Western Balkan? And is there already a decision when or in which one? Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. That's something we're currently working on. We have dramatically expanded our diplomatic network over the last five years. People will be very much aware of it. And obviously, we have consulates in other countries that work in very close cooperation with the Western Balkans. I've been there on a number of occasions. Myself went and attended the Prespa Forum in North Macedonia, in Struga, which was very important because all the actors from the region, from the different Balkan countries were there and represented. So we're very much the forefront in opening other diplomatic networks and embassies. And even with the SEALAC countries, Latin America, all those partnerships that Europe needs now to be looking at in terms of what the global south say about the war in Ukraine and building up diplomatic ties with other jurisdictions. We are very much the forefront of that. Obviously, we do it in incremental change. You can't open an embassy everywhere you would like in every single year. We're working progressively. And one way we think we'll be able to assist the Western Balkans as well is with administration, with their capacity, because we know going through some of these session processes, they take a huge amount of time and detail and administrative capacity. And Ireland is good at that. We're a country that has worked very closely with Europe and can provide a lot of expertise in that regard. And we will be positively interacting with those countries in that regard. Very good. Just there, Keane, just in front of you, Keane. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Minister. Valerie Hughes, I was Bosnia Kosovo Solidarity Groups formerly. I just wanted to ask you about the very urgent situation, which was highlighted by Alicia Kairns, MP this morning in the Financial Times, about the dangerous situation in Kosovo and the no evidence that weapons smuggling works are being stopped. And about the urgency of addressing this and stopping the appeasement of Serbia, which was her words, the stopping the appeasement of Ucic and also not forgetting that Bosnia had a genocide. But it just remains the grand prize of not just Serbia, but also Croatian nationalism. And I would hope we recognize Kosovo in 2008. And I would hope that we would Kurt Bacina was here and he gave a very good presentation about the international community's pacification of Bosnia, the policy was keep it quiet, let it not be a problem for us. And the contrast with Ukraine, with, you know, with the values we have with Ukraine, defending democracy, etc. Might you comment on what Ireland is doing, please? Thank you. Well, first of all, I would say that Bosnia has moved forward quite quickly in one respect in terms of its session in getting candidate status first and obviously opening up negotiations and we've had a briefing a number of briefings from the Foreign Minister in our forum, which is the General Affairs Council, particularly in an informal setting in Mercia. So we continue to work with the country, obviously, in their program of reform and the wider spectrum of Kosovo. Obviously, from an EU context, and there are issues in terms of some countries and their perspective in relation to Kosovo, but from Ireland's perspective, the first thing we would do and we have, I have been in Serbia, I've been out on the border is to really encourage de-escalation. And there is a lot of concern there on behalf of what has happened in relation to the police officers that were attacked. There's been a series of incidents. We have currently an investigation that we're requiring both jurisdictions to cooperate with. That's in a way of trying to find a truth of what is happening on the ground in the region. I have spoke with my Serbian minister for who would be European Affairs perspective minister and encourage them as a country to comply with and work with that investigation because it's so important that we do find a truth. But Ireland as a country is supporting Kosovo. We're asking for de-escalation on behalf of Serbs that we need to be very clear that a peaceful resolution is the only way and de-escalate, especially those municipalities where we've seen the elections of mayors that had no support. We were very much involved in trying to resolve that situation as well. Public opinion in Ireland has generally not been resistant to enlargement. There's been no significant resistance to enlargement. Obviously there have been controversies historically in relation to referendum. They had to do with reforms and treaty change and so on. But just in terms of the general proposition of enlargement, there hasn't been in my recollection anyway any significant resistance to it. John O'Hagan, Professor of Economics at TCD on the Zoom here asks a question through Zoom if enlargement, he says, involves significantly increased contributions to the EU budget from Ireland and also probably the narrowing of the areas to which veto power will apply. Can you be sure that Ireland will not be a blockage to enlargement? I think in the first instance there are many outworkings that are going to come from enlargement. You have institutional reform, what's an enlarged union going to look like? You're going to have how do we take our decisions, our absorption capacity, how do we respond to take decisions efficiently, which have become pressurised in the union on occasions in recent times. And then we have obviously the large budgetary requirements. Obviously Ukraine is such a vast country. Not we're standing with a country of 67 million who has just left the union. Ukraine is a country that has more agriculture land than France. It's a massive, massive territory that will have significant implications on cohesion, on a common agricultural policy for us to respond to. But Ireland has also said in the first instance, you have to have a merit-based approach. The countries have to measure up. And then secondly, we have to get on with our business and institutions now performing. We have to be ready as the European Union to be able to absorb these countries. And there are going to be very hard questions in that process in terms of how we conduct our common foreign and security policies. In terms of the funding, we're obviously a net contributor since 2013 or 2014, I think, into the budget. And that is going to pose very significant questions. So we probably haven't got to the real hard part as yet. In the global spectrum, everyone likes enlargement. Everyone wants a more peaceful union. You know, if the European project has, which it has since its inception, guaranteed peace and security through its membership, which we've seen in Europe before that, that was scarred by wars. Well, as we speak into the future, what's the price to pay for peace and security as we bring more countries in? We're going to have to balance that with taking some hard decisions and taking the future. And obviously, Ireland has very particular sovereign policy issues that we hold very dear and that we want to protect in that process. And through our diplomatic corps, we will do all that we can to do that. But we will not be in any way a block or two enlargement. We are a facilitator. We work with trying to compromise and solutions that will be acceptable to our citizens back here in Ireland. Frontier. Yes, hello. Thank you very much. First of all, I wish to thank you very much. The Institute of International and European Affairs. I was here quite frequent visitor before pandemic, but then pandemic taught us that it's much easier to get to see that the embassy and to watch via screen on the on the zoom, but I think that it cannot replace this possibility to physically be present. And I'm delighted to see my old friends over here. And of course to meet the new ones as well. And Alex, thank you very much for all your interesting speakers at the Institute is always bringing forth the intention of us. Mr Minister, my words of appreciation for your very comprehensive remarks regarding the vision of Ireland to the enlargement of the European Union. You know, of course, I'm delighted to hear to hear is that in your vision of the government. Georgia is among those countries that have this opportunity as a possibility to become the members of the opinion regardless we know that it is not an easy and it's quite long process. So I will have two questions if I may of course say, I will say that we have three questions so that the third was added by by my colleague from Creation Embassy, when the Embassy of Ireland will be open in Georgia. So that it will be delighted to hear, of course, I know that there is no answer for now. But just to keep that in mind will be will be will be great for the future. So my first question will be regarding the three countries because we were the three countries before we were in split by Brussels we say that a bit unfairly. Last, last, last year decision where we were not gained the candidate status but their perspective. We hope that this year we will catch up with other with other our three countries mold over in Ukraine. Would you would you support this idea to keep the two countries together in a one basket. That would be my one question because the approach of the European Union is always is also based on the on the not a single but but but the multiple countries to be considered in a one basket. In my second question will be that you might know that Georgia we do have a very good and very friendly relations with our neighboring Azerbaijan and then they bring Armenia. Unfortunately, both of them will have the conflict and we're trying to find the two to play a mediator role, a middle man role for themselves so that to come down the tensions to bring the solutions to bring both sides together for the dialogue. And to go and to and to bring peace and stability into the region not only to their countries but into the whole region. And my question will be that would you consider that was the candidate status and hopefully will be gained by the end of this year and hopefully with the starting accession negotiations with the European Union. It will be helpful for us. It will give us a different leverage I would say more with more values for us where we can continue this very important mediator role between Azerbaijan and Armenia. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much ambassador. And it's great to hear you understand about maybe not been able to respond and give an exact date for an embassy to be open in Georgia because genuinely as they go around different for that is a question I would get for different countries that we haven't got a physical when are you opening one so I really appreciate your courtesy and that and we will try and continue with our expansion of our diplomatic corps can absolutely assure people that and that's my very initial comment that we really have had our influence at where and that is a very significant achievement in relation to the trio countries. Absolutely I would like to see them progress together, but there is no guarantee that it will happen. And the reason for that is because it is a merit based approach, and Ireland is very firm on that aspect that countries have to measure up to the reforms that are required in order to be a member. And one thing I saw from sitting on the general affairs council, which adjudicates on the performance as well through the article seven process of members who are not compliant with the values set out by the European Union that are not compliant with independence of a judiciary or falling down or democratic backsliding in some areas. When they're a member of the Union, it can be very difficult to resolve these issues and we saw with Hungary and Poland, the challenges through the article seven process funding key funding being withheld from those countries. So I think it's very important that as we bring countries into the Union, number one, that we support them, we give them every support if they're willing partners and they want to be part and share the values of our Union that we help them attain to that standard. But if they don't meet that standard, I don't think there can be a blank guarantee that everyone will progress together. So we're there to help. I would love to see countries progressing together. They're a key focus of our foreign policy to support the Eastern trio, and we will obviously continue to do that, as well as the Western Balkan six, which is going to be very important. And obviously you allude to Azerbaijan and Armenia, which has been a very difficult conflict and we as a country has have given significant humanitarian aid into the corridor trying to support so many people that have been uprooted. And obviously coming from a European perspective that does give obviously an enhanced clout, but I don't think it can be the only thing. As I said, you know, we have a merit based approach. I think that's something we have to stick to with all countries. So I don't think it's a case you're going to see Ukraine fly off in one direction, even though it's in a wartime setting. And to be fair, their parliament are putting true laws every single day of the parliamentary cycle in a wartime economy, which is very difficult. But they will still have to measure up to that merit based process. We will support them to do that. But all countries, I think, have to meet the threshold because if they don't, we're only putting off problems for the future. There were around five minutes left. So any indications I've won over here. Anybody else like to indicate that's two. And we might actually and three. So there are three here. Can we might actually take the three together if that's agreeable. And if you would oblige just by keeping the questions as tight as the same as you can. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. A short question, Minister, and thank you very much for your intervention. You mentioned reforms within the European Union in the decision making together with relaunching the enlargement process. Do you think that it might go without a treaty change or it has to go? Do you mind if we bank the three of them? That's okay. Gentlemen behind it. I'm a Dalton O'Callaghan member of the Institute. In your address, you're referring to the common foreign and security policy. As I understood you, you seem quite favorable towards the idea of more qualified majority voting in that context. I think some people might be a little bit wary of that, considering the attitudes of our country towards foreign policies, given our post colonial status in Western Europe anyway. And one things particularly of the recent situation where the Tishok had to refer to double standards in relation to the reaction of some of our European partners so far as Gaza was concerned. So my question very simply is, is it a now a definite policy of the Irish government that there should be qualified majority voting in CFSB? And behind? Directly behind you. Thank you, Trevor Mallard, New Zealand ambassador. Two very quick thanks. Thank you for the embassy. It does make a big difference. Second thank you is to the government for its strong support for the free trade agreement which went through the European Parliament today with an 83% support. Third point is a question and it goes to the CAP. How will that be worked through with expansion from Irish government point of view? Will there be a big increase in the budget? Will Ukraine have to come in at significantly lower terms? Or will there be equity between countries which might have some domestic implications? Thank you. That's great. Thank you, Alex. And thanks for the questions. We had a great day and you were found. I may say the work is great to have that institution here in Ireland and the great work that they do compiling citizens data that really gives policy makers informed information in order to make your decision. So well done and all the work that is done. I think that Lisbon is enlargement proofed so I don't have visited this point in time treaty change. I think the worst thing that could happen from the European perspective is that if we got bogged down on a debate on treaty change and something that may happen in the future while we are facing a huge climate crisis in Europe while we're facing a war on Ukraine when we have a Middle East crisis when we have a cost of living crisis and that we're trying to transform our technological economy in Europe to be one that is and has the agility to respond to the huge new transformation to a more sustainable way of life, which we've seen post pandemic how vulnerable we are relying on some certain partners around the world and we haven't got that base ourselves and that's why it's so important that we focus on the real issues and focus on enlargement but not get bogged down on a button fight on treaty change. I think that could be very detrimental. So we're very focused Lisbon is enlargement proofed and we can work within that. And secondly, we didn't come in foreign security policy and no as a short answer, but what we are saying is that QMV can be used in some cases to help efficient decision making one case in point was the sanctions package rather 12 sanctions package now that was delivered through QMV and we have areas which we kind of more efficient decision making, but Ireland is of one very firm view that and we're very much pointing this European Union to that. You know, when we all speak with one voice, we are far stronger in an international community. Any day we can do that is a good day. There will be times when we obviously have considerations in terms of our neutrality that we have to be very careful on to respect the wishes of the Irish people, which we have done so through the war on Ukraine. Really supplying key components for first responders in Ukraine for PPE for gear for spare parts for their grid when their public infrastructures hit spare parts for their water infrastructure and all those necessary products that they need that are vital in a war time economy that we are providing that non lethal aid. So I think Ireland is of the view that and we're considering as a foreign policy initiative and to look at QMV and maybe be observers status and what people are saying about their form of it. But we are of the view that we have to respect our sovereign issues that Irish people hold very dear. But my point is that you can see how decisions were made in other areas and that are gone through and and the final thing is in relation to the common agricultural policy. You know, for me to answer that off the hoof will be wrong, but I do know what needs to happen. We need the commission really to do stress tests on a lot of these policy pieces now with these countries coming forward. So Ukraine as I said is such a big economy, such a big land base will have such a significant requirement from the common agricultural policy. But we need the commission to flesh out, but what's that going to mean for the 27 member states potentially. And I think we need more work and I've called for that last general affairs council meeting. Obviously, the European Council is going to make decisions based on the commission's recommendation for this stage of enlargement. But the more data we can have from the commission to get on with that work so it can help us respond to what our position is on institutional reform on the budget and on the policy piece in direction of the European Union into the future. There's a lot of work to be done that we're going to do. A lot of work to be done. I promise to be finished before four. It is still before four. We are about to finish. Thank you very much to the minister. Thank you for your attendance. I think the speech and actually the questions and the range of the questions and the answers where it was possible to answer. As you said, in some cases, not possible to answer, but it just illustrates the sheer range of questions that are that are there and that you have dealt with so impressively in the last three quarters of an hour. So when you're down to three quarters of an hour, you can get an awful lot done in three quarters of an hour when you put yourself under a bit of pressure. All of us. So thank you very much. Thank you for your attendance and thanks again to the Department of Foreign Affairs for their close support for this series and for all of our work here on EU enlargement and other matters. And we'll see you all again soon.