 I have made a few presentations not at the Libreons conference but for customers about how to make templates and this presentation is not about how to make templates but how to deploy templates and how to avoid, I found some people in their use of templates and I worked with them because I've learned to listen the halfway. I'm making mistakes and I don't want you to do the same mistakes. A short build by them, I've been part of the project for more than 10 years. I've been the leader of the Danish organization team for almost 10 years. I'm working as a planning manager at a company called Mid-Intern who provides customers with various solutions for Libre offices. Some of the things I do is teach customers how to use and how not to use and I'm developing templates. A while ago, a guy in Australia read my blog and I've been making some templates so we are exporting now in the company to Australia. For some reason, he thought that I would be the best guy to do that. I'm still waiting to get into the business for a customer meeting now. Libre Office has great assistance to maintain and create new templates. The problem is that very few people actually work with templates in large departments so very few have had real experience with deploying and using templates in large environments. It can be rather tricky that there are some people. The templates are the base for the users to make new documents. Actually, if you are in a situation where the users are supposed to create documents that are compressible with Microsoft Office, you can actually help the users by making solid templates. Solid templates make solid documents. You can make the templates in such a way that it is impossible to interchange with Microsoft Office. If that's the goal, you can do that. Normally, it's the other way around. Make the templates solid and you will make sure that they are interoperable with Microsoft. This makes sure it's about how to avoid the default in the deployment phase. I've written about developing new templates on a blog. You're welcome to visit the blog. I think now that I've got a little time, I'll make a blog post about these templates where I go into details. Sometimes it's a good idea to investigate, when you do something in a document, how does the XML look? Somewhere over in the XML part of the content file in the documents. Why does it behave like this? Maybe you can find some clues in the XML. I don't have time for this, but the agenda is how to deploy templates, how to name templates, something about inheritance of styles from template to template and from template to documents. And then I have a few, you know, a few. Then I'll have some other advice. About deploying templates. The company I'm working with is 19 people and even that can be a problem to deploy templates in a way that the users understand. In some cases I've been deploying templates for several thousand years. And if you are deploying templates or creating templates that are used by several thousand people, really have to think about how you deploy them in a way that you maintain them also and where the users can find the templates. Several ways technically you can deploy the templates. You can ask, give it to the user and ask him to install it. That may not be a good idea. I'll give it back to each of them. You can install the templates in the user template directory. You can install the templates in the program directory. You can deploy the templates as an extension, which is actually not bad idea. You can register a new folder or several new folders as local template folder and you can register files as a joint or a common template folder. These methods have its pros and cons. It's important that the user writes, but there's not one solution that fits all. It has to be something, a decision based on an individual analysis. We can ask the users to import the templates themselves, but it's not going to work. Each user has to be borrowed. I don't think it's a good idea. It's possible. You can deploy templates simply by copying the OTT files of whatever file it is into the user's personal directory. This is the same place that imported templates are put. This requires that the system administrator has access to putting the files into back templates. You can install templates. You can put them into the program directory, which is not a good idea, but it is a good part. I'll just put them in the program directory. I'll get back to the program directory later, because we might not want to put something there, but we might want to remove something from there. It's not the recommended way to deploy templates in the second puzzle. In some cases, the best idea is to make a package, especially if you have users on various locations and you don't have a share, then it could be a good idea to wrap things up in an extension. It's rather easy to make an extension. With the extension, you have the capability of actually maintaining, making sure that the users get the newest version. You can check for updates to the program. You can check for updates for new versions of an extension. You can define in the extension where the extensions look for updates. You can push new versions to an extension via the extension system. That is a way to wrap the templates up in a box that can be deployed. It is somewhat time-consuming to make this package. In some situations, if you expect to have multiple changes, daily maintenance, and you want to make sure that each user has precise templates at some time, then it is too time-consuming to make these templates. Especially if the users are not having the same set of templates. If the financial department has one set of templates and the sales department has another set of templates, then this might be too time-consuming. I think the most common way of doing this is to dump the files into the personal folder in the box. You can register a new folder. You can identify any path on the computer to be a folder for templates. You can register that manually, which is in the screenshot. You can do it in this redirection of when a new template can be done through an extension. You can do it through Windows registry. If the user is using Windows, of course. But be aware not to put too many paths. In this case, I have four that are actually running on the network latency and so on, of course. But too many paths identified as template paths makes Libraffis very slow. If you have too many, Libraffis will not show you any of them because there's a time-out before it finishes generating your view. To identify the template path as the template path is, I believe, the most generic way to do it. It's very easy to maintain the content. You can actually make access control to the various folders on the file share. So this is a very fast way to do it. It's a very easy way to maintain it afterwards. But of course you have to consider a network latency and some other pitfalls in this network. You have the benefit that you can very easily make a new version of a certain template. Just remove the old version from the file store and put a new one and it's available to all users. You can deploy new templates just by putting the file on the file share and everybody on the network has access to it and it is adopted from Libraffis automatically. It's also a good idea if you want to deploy different templates for different servers. Different people. It could be department-wise or global-wise. Simply by creating folders on your file share with the department names saying the financial department has access to the folder. The other folder and the state department have access, network access to the folder. Libraffis will automatically only show the templates that each individual has access to. So you have a generic note or agent to deploy templates for various people. But there are some downsides. I'll get back to the first point that can occur conflicts. If you have a very complicated setup of movies having access to work that can occur naming conflicts, I'll get back to that. There's another thing that I've discovered that is that if one person has access to different folders through different complicated access control, there are many groups. If a person is a member of different groups, it takes much time to calculate precisely which templates does this individual user have access to Libraffis time-lapse and doesn't show anything. So this is one of the risks by making a very complicated setup of members of the group having access to folders with templates. If it becomes too complicated, it doesn't work. So that's something you have to take, because the agent can probably use this method. In that case, I would suggest either an extension or some kind of synchronisation to the local path. Of course, we're also having a thing called network latency. Networks are getting faster and faster. But network latency is the only problem if you don't have a very far network. Also, calculating access, which folders, which templates have this specific user access to, there is a live latency on that calculation. That can be one of the pitfalls. Test it from various, from different locations in the network and see how it works. But if you make 100 folders and connect to 100 groups and some people have access to more than one or two or three groups, then you might discover that the latency will actually maybe start working. I had a situation where the ID card couldn't use any templates because they had access to everything. The system had an administrator, had access to everything. So LibreOffice never got finished hand-cluating before LibreOffice came off. Sorry, I can't share any templates because it takes too long. It is, in theory, possible to register an HTTP or cloud access. I tried with my own cloud server to just register the path to an HTTP folder. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It's more likely the network latency that is giving trouble. So it is possible, but test it to see where there is another way to go, but it is possible. The latency here is somewhat of a problem, I believe, to align the network latency. We could use the own cloud server, this is just an example, if you could use a Fresco or Windows Server. But deploy through some kind of network server and then make a local synchronisation. I mean, there is a synchronisation trance for own cloud that can synchronise the focus. And it is possible to administrate this so that you use a server for control, but the actual files are synchronised to the local computer that way you avoid having latency on the actual use. The latency would be in synchronisation, but this is another problem. And you can still use the focus structure to make sure that only the templates of the individual users you use is available. So this is a way to get rid of the network latency on a network server. The conclusion is that there is not one way that is the correct way. The correct way is individual, depending on how many users, depending on how complicated the structure is, depending on do you have two or three lesser templates that everybody should use, or do we have individual templates for the departments and how often do you believe you need to maintain the content if you are making lesser templates for content, then you might need to be able to make fast changes and many changes. Then we have to take this into consideration. When deploying multiple templates to multiple users, I always try to see if I can use the file share version, because that is the easiest one to work with. So that is, if I recommend one for the other, that would be the recommended way, but another would be to deploy an extension. Because with the extension you can control versions and when you deploy, deploying the path, the new path is another thing which is actually done with an extension. That is the easiest way. Any questions about physically deploying the OTT file? I have a question. I was thinking about, is it possible to have some kind of folder structure? I mean, if you have a lot of templates, perhaps it would be nice to organize them into a folder structure. The question is, is it possible to organize templates into a folder structure? The answer is yes. You have one level. You cannot have a deep structure, you have one level. If you dump them in the root, I mean, you have either in personal folder or in any path, the path is a root. If you dump them in the root, the templates will occur under my templates, I believe, this long. So the root is actually a soft folder for my templates. If you make a soft folder, the user will see a kind of category by that name. So I would always prefer to put things into a kind of folder structure. Danger templates, English templates, leather templates, report templates, whatever, to help the user to find the correct templates. So yes, it is, but only in one level. Dimitri? Is it possible to have just a time-out in writing? Is it possible to have a time-out in writing? Most likely at the moment. But that would just make waiting time for the user. And if you meet the time-out, then there's a symptom that something is not perfect. I'm sure you can, but I'll let you try. I don't know where. But most things are configurable. It's just a remark, so you mentioned all those different problems. I think you can also categorise them according to whether they employ on a user-specific level, or on a system-specific level, on an organization-wide level, to share depository emotion. And it also depends on what you want later on. If you put it into a user space, you give also the user a certain control about those templates, and it depends on whether you really want this, because I think you want to update your templates and so on. Some of the methods give the user the opportunity to make changes, or remove them, or add some. If you use all methods, you prevent that user throughout the system. And it also prevents you from being able to effectively revoke any of the templates, because they are out there. I think besides having things into categories, it's actually possible to make an extra level based on language. It just comes to my mind now that I've seen this, but I've never tried it. So that you, besides having the categorization, you also have a filter that is the language, which means English users only see the English versions, and the Danish users only see the Danish versions. I haven't tried it. It's not a promise, but I think I can look towards it thinking about it. Catherine, did you have a... Yeah. It's my friends that asked me questions like that. The fact that there's too many templates in the template folder, the debug will not be able to load and make people have a good time out. Is there a good reason for that? Reading the templates in a folder and displaying them for the use of the choose one will be very similar to us. So it sounds like a bug. It sounds like a bug, or is there a good reason? I don't... My experience is that it's not the amount of templates, because if there's a large amount of templates in a simple module, it's not a problem. The problem is that if you have multiple folders with different access and you have a lot of them, then for certain users, maybe it's... I think it's calculating which templates is this user actually having access to. But this calculation is actually on the system level, so it's not really on the office level. I'm sure that the calculation is on the network, on the system level. Yes, but it's debug that turns out. I'm not... Because of the previous animation made, does that occur on all platforms, on all the range of operating systems? I've seen on Windows, both of our customers are using Windows as the end user and Windows shares server in the back end, and accept or actually as the engine to calculate. But I haven't experienced this at all, where others. I just want to take your time. I have five minutes for the rest. Any more questions? Naming? Each template has a name. The name is what the user see here. I get to report later on the company, and when you create a document, that template is stored as a metadata in the document. You have two templates with the same name in the same category. One of them is not visible, and it's kind of random which one it is. This is really... I mean, I have done... It took me some time to find out why some of my templates were never deployed, or why I deployed one template, and there was another template that disappeared. That was because they have overlapping names. Because this view that we show to the user, the name of the template has to be unique. We said, don't we get names? Okay, one of them... I mean, there come stacks, and I don't know if one is at the top. It's the file language in file properties. The name is in the file properties of the templates. That's why you give it away. You control the names, don't you? Yes, you mentioned it. If you are in a situation where a template disappears, this is the reason, and you have no way to find out where a template is, go on. I've seen templates because people used templates and changed it and saved it in a different file name without changing the fields in file properties. That's how it happens. If you create a new template from templates, the new template gets the same name as the template that you used, so the default is failure. That's crazy, but when you create a new template from another template, the first thing you do is change the name. We don't know which one of them disappears. I think the first point should be considered about the fact that the default is a failure. It should be something just renamed to avoid this problem, but the default is a failure. That's the problem. I think there's no reason not to display both of them because it's not used as a key. In this case it is used as a key, obviously. But there's no UI reason for it, in the program it's being used as a key. I'm not deciding how it should work, I'm telling you how it does work. I've been there. When did my template go? I couldn't find it. If you have the same folder, you can use multiple deployment methods in a combination. You can use the same structure from different sources. We do that in our own company. Where's the naming conflict coming from? They can actually come from two different sources. If you deploy something here, something here is there. Anything else? I believe there's a reason to use a name as a key. Maybe there is somewhere on the program. Maybe there's a historic reason. On the historic part, it's very strong. Somebody made this as a key. You may have found that when it comes to inheritance, we use another key. How many of you are aware that you can actually inherit stuff from template to document from template to template? Right from the size of the theatre. When you create a document based on a template, if the template is later changed with either changing the styles or removing styles or adding new styles to the template, that change can be inherited to each document. That's quite a nice feature if you want it. My own experiences, my own convenience, this is too complicated for the user. Don't inherit styles. Tintlets can inherit from templates. If you make a new template from another template, then you also have this inheritance. When you load it, a later time will be asked, do you want to update? That's a question in two buttons to choose from. Don't ask your users to survey between two buttons. Too complicated. There is a 50% chance that there will be a wrong button. There will be a random button because it is actually a really hard question to answer. Because also that is a US problem in that time. The question is not perfectly clear. There is a good chance that there will choose a wrong button because they don't know about inheritance. Secondly, the question they ask is a complicated question. It can be useful, I don't like it for the end user, but it is very useful in my development phase when I develop templates. I inherit from template to template. I am making more than one template for one customer. I always start making a master template. A template that only consists of styles. That's my styles bank. Then I use inheritance. A template is the report template. Everything inherits from the styles bank. That's my master template. Whenever I have a design change, I do that in the master and inherit. Then I know that all my templates have the same look and feel. Inheritance here is very nice. You can do it automatically with inheritance where you can choose to do it manually by load styles. Whether you do it one way or the other. I like to think that inheritance here is very good. How do we identify which template to inherit from? First, I thought it was the name. The name is a key in the other situation. I am not sure. I am pretty sure that the name does not have any importance, but I am pretty sure. I know that the path and finding is a key in this situation, which is very obvious, but it is not very smart. That means that I cannot move around my template repository. If I move my template repository, I will cut or inherit it. Carl has a comment. Christian, you can set in the file to say if the URLs are relative to our themes. Have you tried to implement this situation? When you save the template of the document? There are two options. You can set if URLs are relative to our themes. Maybe that is the same. You never know? It could be. That did not come to my mind. I have just discovered that the path and finding is a key, because if you move your template repository all in inheritance. It is exactly the absolute path, not the relative path according to some... It could be that the system I was working with at the time was set up with the absolute path. It could be and I will go and investigate next week, not today. But it could be... It is not logical that you have names as key one place and file path the other place. It took me some time to find out why doesn't this work and why does it work sometimes, a lot of times. And then I tried to make... I mean structure tests and find out that the path and finding is a key in this situation. But there could be random things, like explicit settings about how to find path. But this is very important because you cannot change either the path or the finding of the template. Which makes it rather almost random whether it works or not. I prefer not to inherit from template to document and mention that. I find it too confusing for the users. I mostly use automatically inheritance, but you can also use the manually. Now I want to take the style in this and load it to that. There's two, more or less, the same one sort of manually the other is manual. But only from template to template. So whether any questions like that, I have to speed on a little bit. Otherwise we'll have no lunch. Which is important, yeah. A few other advices. We have one hour to call it to the plan. Yeah, that's including the lunch. We were asked to have lunch in the room. Yeah, okay, we just fix it. So lunch point is at one o'clock and continues at two o'clock. Okay, I'll play it then. One, I'll make some more fun. Now, Libraff has come with pre-installed templates. In Denmark, we don't speak English. Some of the templates are resumes with English text and even names. Remove them. That's kind of nice. We have to remove the file from the programs directory, which is quite weird. But when you deploy professionally, you should remove most, at least the writer templates and the spreadsheet templates. There are some interest templates that are located. Unless you want to have various traits that you can feel in the company, then you should remove them too. Because in a professional environment, they have no right to exist. Some of them are, it's true, it's a CVE in English with names in it. I think there was a competition about a year ago asking designers to put some content in Libraff's office. It sounds like a good idea, and it's a good idea for private people to have some examples. That in a professional environment, the system administrator should remove them from the program directory. Only the imprints that consists layouts have a life in a professional environment. But they can be good ideas and examples for the designer of all the templates. That was pretty much it. I have my English block and I expect to... Oh, this is not my English. There's an error. I'll correct that in the other version. Anyway, I expect to make a block post about this topic right next week or something. I've got most of it. There are examples about where to find work in the XML or some more things that I didn't stop. I thought I had only one. No, we don't have any for the launch. Follow my block. Danger people can follow the Danish newsletter block where I've brought a lot more. If you have any questions afterwards, feel free to send me questions or ideas or whatever. Don't use the series, it's not mine. There's an error. There's an error. More after my... Before the absent. But I'll make it to you first. Give a new version to Sophie to upload on the website. I guess. Got so many mail from me this week, so you've got my mail. Fitrydw to ask my questions. I'm really interested in getting more knowledge and sharing experience. Because I think the whole template, the concept of templates is very, very good. Not many people are actually using it. Not even in professional problems. I don't know anybody except for Carl, perhaps, that actually have experience with templates. The less dumb is the expert, but that's me. I haven't heard of anybody else who's actually talking about using templates and so on and so forth. So I'm obviously the expert because I talk about it. I find some bugs. About it, there are some bugs on the browser. I think the one about... No, the one that a new template from a template inherits the name and thereby causes a failure was rejected. That's not a part of the feature. What can I do? But if you can program it, then change it. Just make a small change. As we do with findings, I've just got one, and I've got two, and I've got three. I'll remove the name as a key and use something else as a key. I'll be perfect. But I've posted something quite simple about it all the time. I've made a road to the post more of a post. Have you tried whether there is any developer which still understands why it is implemented that way? I've never met a developer who has interests in templates. So let's assume that there is nobody here who likes to really understand. I don't think anybody in the community actually knows how this works. I'm the less dumb on the expert, but I'm not a programmer. I'm absolutely not a programmer. The first step could actually be that a developer investigates how does it actually work and compare that to how it's supposed to work. Maybe nobody knows, nobody remembers how it is supposed to work, but the first step would be how it doesn't work, because I've only made some tests, and Corm gave me an idea. I'll go by him and make some more tests trying to change the settings. But maybe we can... Some five or seven years ago, they had been implemented. The change in the route that they followed was named XML, from what I remember, and that was used to make a combination of different folders and whatever. So there have been intentional changes at that time to make combinations. Later I've seen that that isn't really used. There have been changes around this functionality, and to me it's also a bit hard to understand why how it changed, but maybe we can even track something in the old office before archiving. I agree it's hard to understand. It's amazing because it's a great system. The extensions behind it is great, and if you figure out how it works for a time, but there are some defaults. My first point is that I've given you some of my experience so that you can avoid the same defaults. I've been to the other one, raised the case, should we do something about it and make it better, and fix these small boxes, and maybe ask a programmer to look at them. It's difficult to understand does it refer to the function editor, does it refer to the code? The answer is yes. I don't think anybody has been looking at this topic for years. It's quite a confusion. I wouldn't call it a disaster. Of course it's quite a disaster because when it happens, some professional bubble up and find out what happens. Yeah, I'll make one. I haven't seen that. I would love to spend more money on it first. But in the end of the day, if there's a customer willing to pay for making the system better, it'll be done. That's the way I haven't met any customers that are willing to pay for fixing this, but maybe we can find a student and do something to do with the work. Maybe in this scalability problem with the number of templates, of course there's the previous generation, but maybe there's also an inefficient implementation to make values better than that. I think that one should be possible to solve because, at least, it should be not... I mean, the way in which you don't react is, oh, there's too much work for me to do, I'll show you nothing. You should say, 30 minutes has passed now. Maybe I should stop and give you what I've found so far and give you a message that I didn't find anything. I think that approach would be first to generate the list and add the previous later on basically so something like that. I think it's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, if... But I'm sure that... because I don't think any changes has been made to the template systems in the queen period, as I call it, it must be possible to optimise the code. I'm pretty sure it's possible to optimise the code, but I'm not going to do it, I'm not programming. Okay? So here you're creating documents from templates, which are local. You could register HTTP folders. Another strategy which is used in some corporate environments is that you have a CMS system where you log in and you start creating a document there. You have a page where you say, this is my name and you log in so the system knows it. You log in on the page for a specific case and you say I want to send a letter relating to the case, so then you might have a button saying, okay, create a new letter and then you get an ODT which you can continue writing the actual content and the template has been chosen then and some things have been filled in. At what point would you switch to such a system? First of all, in that case, we're not using the Libre Office Trial System. Because the document is actually not created by Libre Office, it's created by the programming system. I would use this in situations where I want to merge data from that system into the letter. It could be I have a customer-relation-management system where I have all my customers and when I need to send a letter to the customer, I need to put his name in the registry. In that case, we'll use that method. Then I'm not using Libre Office to create a document. The CIM system is creating the document, giving the result with data most in. In that situation, remember to research the metadata because when you create a document from the template, you have a creation date that is today. You have who created the document, you have these are basically, and it has been dated only one time, the three meter fields. But if you don't reset them, because Libre Office is not involved in creating the document, it will be the template creation date that creates the document. It will be the person who created the template that will be in the metadata for the document and it will have been edited 46 times when you first created the document. So remember to reset the metadata in the document. You have to create the document. Yes, the CIM system is creating the document and you are merging data into the data. Libre Office is not involved in creating the document. So Libre Office will not reset the creation date to today. It will just take whatever creation date was in the template. The author, and the number of days, and maybe two more. But this is just a reminder. We forgot that in our own system. But in another context, technically, from the user's perspective, yes, I'm creating a new document and Libre Office is automatically opening, so it's not a template. It's just taking a copy of one file and making a new file. Yes, from a business perspective, it's the same thing, but technically, we're not using the Libre Office template system to do it. And it's a very good idea to think that way because that way you are creating the document in the background and you can manipulate anything. I mean, you can add data by the receiver of the document, case number, price of the purchase or whatever and put that directly into the document. Even at creation time, even before it comes to the user's best agreement that will be doing the back-end, serving a final best agreement. Thank you, my mindage. We made a check also. So the back-link from a document to its originating template, it must be somehow encoded into the document. Necessarily. Yes, and I have found the exam on my own. That does this. I think it's called template key, actually, which is path and funding. Okay. I have found that, and I'll put that on my blog, let's say in Onigoso. First thing is, of course, I had a lot of the blog ready as my preparation for this presentation, and I found the exam on it. Then onigoso, we checked whether this is actually part of the official specification, because maybe in the specification of ODF, that's more about it. Could be. Could be. I'm not taking others. I just looked at the specification. So the inheritance of templates is not necessarily more specific. The name of the template, which was used to create a document, is in meta.xml. Okay. It's just a name to the name? Yeah, the name. The name. Oh, okay, let me check. Okay. No mind. I mean, we'll start a discussion here. We'll continue to discuss the main list. I hope. It's a URL. Okay. Yeah. It's a pointer to the file. Okay. And it also has a title. So it has the link and the name. Both. Is it an and? Yeah. Or is it an all? No, anything. So both the name and the file and path, that's why it rarely works, because if you change one of them, nothing will work. Actually, we're bound to a specific place. Of course, if it's in the specification, then, I mean, we're kind of lost. Well, maybe not all the fields are required. There's something to think about for somebody. Yeah. There's a lot of... I just found a drawing. Don't know how to start it. Okay. I'm also asking myself a question. Also, Microsoft Office offers this possibility to inherit style, so something extensive, but I'm not sure. A thing to do today that didn't do in 2003... I don't do the state of the art. And I also don't know how intensive this is really used in the modern environment. No clue about that. So the name is optional. Okay. When you're in the metadata, the link is required, the name is optional, and you can also put the date. Okay. Sorry. The question is to navigate away from... The question is... Yeah, that specification really requires your implementation to interpret the path. But you can leave out the entire element, of course. Yeah, but then you will have no inheritance. Right. I would actually have to count generic inheritance so that I have a document, and if I move my template, it will still keep track of the template. I don't know if this field is used for the inheritance in the Liberal Office implementation. The path file is used for inheritance. Oh, okay. I know that. Okay. I don't know if other elements imply inheritance as well, because I've made tests on 20, tried to do this, tried to make a change, tried to do this, tried to make a change, because I wanted to know, I wanted to find out how does it work. So I made quite a lot of tests, and one thing I know for sure is that the path is a key for inheritance. And I have figured out how to avoid it. I will try with the trick that Colin mentioned with a setting pointing to relative paths instead of after paths. But there will be a test next week or something, or maybe you will perform it. Okay, any further questions? Any comments, ideas? Do you have any related experience? I think it's great fun to make templates. I'm often asked about his, what I've interviewed today, is to make sure that the documents, the final documents, become as enjoyable as possible. And I have a blog post describing how you in the template can make your end user document actually pretty enjoyable. Because if you don't think about this, converting documents between Microsoft Office and Microsoft Office, at the time you design your templates. It's just, sometimes it doesn't matter if you don't use this trick, if you don't use this trick. But one of them is a word from Microsoft Office, the other one doesn't serve you, which is the one that does, if that's what you want. But you can help your users, and you can make better end users but interoperability by making good templates. So that is something that is our scope for today. But making good and solid templates makes life much easier for end users. I mostly, 90% of my end users are writer templates I use to, I usually make one or two of the interesting ones, but I have never, have you ever heard of people using templates for spreadsheets? Yeah. Okay. Yes. To serve me, but this is very specific because the templates have a connection with macros and the templates are packaged alongside the macros and the data form. Then you make sure that, then you have to use the template for a container for the macros. Or is it that case? It's a rather specific case. Maybe you have never heard of the template. Quotes or other stuff, the patience? Maybe I just don't work enough for the camera. That's all the work of the design team to actually give us some good, default cell signs might trigger people to actually think about using templates. I think that's why I could use it rewind. If you have ideas, what was the discussion in the UX although already? You know maybe already? I noticed that they are actually working on it. That's why I mentioned it. I think you're far apart about the, when you want to load styles from another document, I mean that dialogue is, I don't think it's broken. I just think the guy who designed it was not very wise. Is it still there? I thought it was quite functionality disappeared with new template already. The dialogue is still there in 5.0. That fails. There is an issue in Baxilla asking for make. You have to know how it works. You have to click in the right way. You have to do things in the right direction. You have to do this before this because when you do this you're done. If you forgot to do that then you have done something wrong. Load style from fire. You have to make decisions about what to load before you keep the file. Because when you keep the file cheap then you execute. So if you keep something wrong then you execute something that you shouldn't have executed. I think there's a bug in Baxilla about that. Thank you for coming.