 Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this webinar. My name is David Farrell. I'm a professor of politics at University College Dublin. And I'm very pleased to welcome you to this webinar today, which is co-organized by the IIEA and the European Parliament Liaison Office in Ireland. The Conference on the Future of Europe is an historic EU-wide exercise in citizens' engagement. It provides an opportunity for citizens across the European Union to participate in a dialogue for politicians at national and EU level on plans for the future of the European Union. Now, we're in the latter stages of the conference with the very last meeting of the citizens' panels taking place in Dublin this coming weekend. This, of course, is deeply symbolic because Ireland is internationally recognized as a leader in promoting the use of deliberative processes like this, so I'm particularly pleased that we will be having that event here. So my job is to, first of all, introduce everyone, say a little bit about the running order, and then let us get started with the process. What I'm going to do is I'll first introduce each of the panelists before they make their initial remarks. And we've asked each panelist to try and confine their remarks to between five and seven minutes, ideally, to give us enough time for discussion. Once they've concluded, we will go straight to a discussion and question and answer session. And so I would ask you to submit any questions you may have via the Zoom Q&A function that you see down at the bottom right of your screen. If you type in your questions there, we will do our best to get to as many questions as possible in the time that we have. So let me introduce the three members of the European Parliament that we're, I'm delighted to have them with us for this panel today. This is the order in which we will run the session. So we'll start with Colin Markey, who was represented the Midlands Northwest Constituency for Fina Gale since 2020 and currently serves on the Agricultural and Rural Development Committee. Before becoming an MEP, he was a member and former chair of Loud County Council and the former president of the Irish Youth Farm Association, Macrona Farmer. He currently runs the Loud Leadership Partnership for SMEs and runs a family farm in Tocher County Loud. Then we'll be followed by Laurence Fereng, who is a French MEP, representing the Move-A-Mon Democrat since 2019. She is also a regional councillor for the Nouvelle Accretaine region in France. She was formerly a local councillor and the former director of communication, events and protocol for the city of Pow. She is the Renew Europe's Groups Coordinator for the Culture and Education Committee of the European Parliament and a member of the European Parliament's delegation to the conference on the future of Europe, as well as the founder of the Bonjour Lyork initiative, facilitating youth placements in cities and universities across Europe. And then last but not least, Josiane Kuttyjar is a Maltese MEP, representing the Labour Party there since 2019. She is the vice chair of the European Parliament delegation for relations with Australia and New Zealand and a member of the Industry, Energy and Research Committee with a focus on digital policy and the single market. Before becoming an MEP, Ms. Kuttyjar worked in the office of the Prime Minister of Malta, working on issues of equal gender representation, domestic and gender-based violence. So just to remind everyone that today's address, discussion and Q&As are all being recorded, so they're all open and public. Please feel free to join in the discussion on Twitter if you like. You can use the handles at IIEA or at EP in Ireland to try and help make sure that everyone can see all the tweets. And we are also live streaming today's discussion, so I want to give a special warm welcome to all of you tuning in via YouTube. So I'd like to invite the panelists to start with their brief remarks and I'll start with you, Colin. Thank you very much, David. And as you say, it's timely to have this event this week with the Citizens Panel at the weekend. And I suppose, as you say, it's modeled in a lot of ways on the Citizens' Assemblies we've had here in Ireland over the years. And I think we've had a good track record in terms of the outcomes of them. And I think one of the key things about the outcomes of them was the mere citizen engagement got people interacting in the conversation. And I feel like it evolved the conversation as to where things could go. And I think it should be the same at the European level because there's certainly a concern, if you like, about concerns of a disconnect, if you like. Certainly, if you're over in Brussels and you see how much disconnected sometimes, the ordinary people are underground to policy and the development of policy. And times that can lead to a bit of apathy. And in a world where sort of media is, if you like, changing forms of media that are out there. And if you like, it's gone to a world where people more reinforce their opinions rather than challenge their opinions. And I think something like this gives us the opportunity to challenge those opinions. And I suppose the other thing about it is the context that we're in at the minute is very important, like when you consider we've just come out of the pandemic. We had Brexit before that, which if you like challenged many things about Europe and where Europe is going. And then with our current scenario on the Eastern borders, what's happening there. So we've all that going on or have gone on over the last couple of years. And then to all of that, we've a backdrop of our climate challenge, which is going to really put many strains in many ways in terms of how we can achieve that over the years. So just to touch on this both briefly, as you said, some of the key issues I would see that are there that we really need to focus on. Obviously, the one that I mentioned there in relation to the security side of it, like when you look at the situation in Ukraine, what's developing, it asked the question, how are we meant to deal with that into the future? How are we meant to deal with aggression, if you like, on the war on stage? And also if you look at a scenario where in more recent years, I suppose US foreign policy has been taken a step back. And you ask, what is there a vacuum there? How is it to be fulfilled? I suppose here in Ireland, we'd very much value our defense policy, or sorry, our neutrality policy, should I say. And the part we played in terms of a peacekeeper on the war on stage and neutrality has been very strong from an Irish perspective. And I suppose the question is then, how does that save for European defense? And I know there's a conversation in certain places as regards to European army, that's one that certainly would be a challenging conversation here in Ireland. And the whole Ukrainian thing then leads, I think a lot of these things are interconnected. The Ukrainian thing leads to the question as regards to the scenario that Russia leads to the question in relation to our security, of our energy supply, and in particular our gas supply obviously. And what her options are in terms of if you like, do we need to wean ourselves off that security from the East? And I think that is a major concern. And then brings into focus, if you like, all the things around that we were discussing the likes of taxonomy that we're discussing at the moment in terms of alternative energy sources. Like, and there's very, like very, what would have been difficult questions that we would have talked about in the past around nuclear and about liquid natural gas and things like that. But equally in an Irish context, we have a massive opportunity in terms of offshore wind. So how we, I suppose, the idealism at one level of the ambition to greener environment, and people on the other side of that argument will talk about the practical approach, I suppose, and how we make that ambition in terms of the environment, how we practically deliver it. But in the current climate, we've probably decoded realities of how we have to make that tangible and that's really gonna be a challenge. And I think that leads like the energy question leads into our environmental question where we're looking to decarbonize the environment as well. So like that, to replace the energy to take the carbon out of our environment, like in transport, like heavy goods, vehicles, aviation, maritime transport, these are all big challenges that we have. And I think how we intend to deal with these. And one thing that I see with this that it leads on to interconnect with that again is like if you like our food systems and if you like an old issue that we would have talked about for years would be our food security. And I know that's an old issue, but in a way when you look at the current scenario where like we have to recognize that the production of food impacts on our environment. And if you like global warming, impacts on our potential to produce food. And equally, if we seek to decarbonize food production systems, that impacts on the use of fertilizers and things and that in itself can have an impact on food supplies. So all the interactions of let's say our security or energy supplier environment and even our food production system where really we're looking at, if you like the interlinks of food systems approach I think is something that started into the conversation more recent years where we include the likes of food policy with environment policy and with health policy where you integrate all three together because the three are so interlinked. And I think going forward that food systems approach is something that we're going to have to think a lot about. I suppose all the key areas then like I mentioned at the start, post pandemic that what Europe can do in health is something that's come into focus as well in terms of, I suppose we saw the response the COVID pandemic, whether it be the roll out of the vaccines and how Europe invested in that and by working together, okay, it was a little bit slow initially but certainly the capacity for smaller countries like Malta or like Ireland to benefit from that from the collective purchase and the collective roll out of that was very important. And equally the pooling resources in terms of the research capacity and the digital certificate all those things are things that Europe played a major part in. And I suppose the question going forward then is in the area of medicine, can we play a part? Like particularly I think in the area of preventative medicine is there's something we can do there in relation certainly in the research space and in the vaccine space and in the mental health space. Like we're obviously not, well, I don't think we're going to set up any European A&E like emergency response but in the preventative medicine space in the research space, perhaps there's a lot Europe can do. And I think these are some of the key areas. I could keep an eye on it. I don't know, maybe if you want me to wrap up with that, there is one or two other ones obviously digital transformation, the business is young people. These are all areas that are so, so important. Maybe we'll come up to them better in the questions and I'll leave it that for the minute just as a kickoff. Thank you Colin and thank you very much for keeping to time. We're really grateful for that. There's a lot to say as you say. So thank you for keeping it confined. And just to remind everyone if you have any questions do please put them into the Q&A. We'll keep an eye on them as this proceeds. So I'll turn to the Rons next. Yes, thank you very much Professor Farrell and thank you to the Institute for inviting me today. I'm really delighted to be here to exchange on the conference on the future of Europe with everybody who is connected and I'm pleased to meet my colleagues as well. Thank you for introducing me. I am indeed French member of the European Parliament in the Renew Europe political group. First, I would like to say a few words on me. I come as you said from Beau, it's a city in the very southwest of France close to the mountains and in the European Parliament I am coordinator for my group Renew Europe in the Coal Committee to give you an example of what my work there looks like. In 2020, I negotiated the new Erasmus Plus program for the period of 2021-2027 and these programs are for seven years so it's very important to have the good decision on it. My priorities in the process were to secure a stronger global budget for this successful European program and to ensure a greater inclusion of participants. Regarding the conference on the future of Europe, I'm glad to see that many talks in the two first sessions of the panel one show once again how these mobility programs are for citizens milestones of the European Union. As you mentioned this weekend, citizens panel number one will meet in Dublin Castle and work on their final recommendation regarding the three last white topics which are the one on economy, social justice and employment, the one on the digital transition and the one I am the most familiar with education, youth, culture and sport. The last, this last citizens panel will mark a very important moment of the conference as it marks the start of the next step for us members of the conference plenary which will be to discuss these recommendations and build concrete proposals. I can tell you that I'm really looking forward to read the citizens recommendation giving our interesting exchanges with the citizens in our working groups of the plenary with their final recommendation we will be able to reach the next step in this unique process. As preliminary remarks, there are two points about this conference that I would like to share with you. The conference of the future of Europe is truly a major unique exercise of citizens participation at the European level. As a member of the European Parliament part of this renew Europe family, I was proved to see that my political group has done so much for this large scale participation exercise to exist because for the first time the three European institutions are putting citizens in the center enabling them to have a strong voice in the future of our European policies. With the launch of the platform of the digital platform every citizens could contribute share an idea, build an event and connect with other European citizens no matter where they live in Europe. To me it's a crucial point. Coming from a city in France that is not Paris but a medium-sized city close to Spain I always fought for a fair representation of all citizens coming from rural or urban areas or different backgrounds. We face different challenge specific questions and they should be heard as well. The second point that I find very crucial with the conference of the future of Europe is to involve the younger generation and the citizens panels reflect this need. With one third of citizens being aged between 16 and 25 young people are given the priority and to be included in the European process to be consulted on the European Union is what they want. According to the youth survey 2021 around three out five respondents it's 62% are generally in favour of the European Union and the 2019 European election so a significant mobilisation at the ballot box for the younger generation with a jump of 14 points among the under 55 years old. However they are calling for new form of participation in the democratic process in addition to the traditional vote which would be more concrete and bring more results more quickly. A few recommendations from the panel on democracy and values reflect this wish. To me it's all linked to our common European identity this European identity is complex as the core of it is our diversity and this European spirit might seem abstract because it passes through experiences. I think this is why and this is what the programme Erasmus has shown. Hence to me they are first two leads that European Union should build on for younger generation to be part of the project and embrace it. This is mobility and participation and I am happy to see that in the last stages of the conference this is what citizens were calling for openness and more Europe. Of course there are many other interesting points and inputs from citizens to talk and I will be very happy to develop on them with you. Thank you very much. Thank you and again thank you for keeping to time no pressure your Sian because you're the last one. I turn the floor to you now. Thank you very much David and thanks to the Institute for the invite and this initiative as well as the European Union liaison office in Ireland here. It's a very important work and it's great to come together and discuss the upcoming conference and also in the wake of the panel taking place in Dublin this weekend. It's a true pleasure indeed to be also discussing and when it comes to important aspects related also to the aspects of panel one and as anticipated earlier my focus and my line of work one of the focus is precisely digitalization. I work on digital files built in the ITRA committee but also in the TRON committee where I've worked on various opinions and I take you also through some points I've put forward also for this debate. First of all the recommendations from panel from the panel will in fact be very much important because they'll be feeding and still work of the digital transformation working group which I do form parts in this process of the conference plenary and then we could also formulate some concrete proposals which take into account these suggestions to be approved then in the final plenary. The European Union as we know is thriving to be the world leader when it comes to digitalization also through its regulation and the work we're conducting in the institutions could really have an effect on the remaining part of the world. We know that Europe is trying to ensure that fundamental values and rights of our union are respected in the digital domain and I really hope that we will lead by example here. From human rights to freedom of expression and right to privacy to principles paramount for our single markets these are all very much important that we preserve and work more at home. What is illegal offline must be illegal online maybe this is a phrase that you've heard and it's something which the EU and the institutions are striving towards even the European Parliament in its various reports is striving towards and indeed Europe is trying to do this and this is something which we really believe in. There are plenty of digital initiatives that the European Union and its institutions are putting forward and I would really like to touch upon some of these. From the experience with throughout this process of the conference we've seen how even through certain recommendations being put forward by the citizens they are putting forward certain values certain principles which are already being reflected in certain legislative initiatives and therefore I wanted to also address a bit maybe a knowledge gap which may exist between what is known in Brussels and the immediate institutions and what is known to the public. I wanted therefore to touch upon some legislation which we're working upon at the moment the Digital Services Act and the Digital Market Act have received quite some media attention but it's important to also underline here and recap that the Digital Services Act which referred to as the DSA and short aims at regulating online platforms and their content and here the final work from Parliament contains very important provisions on protecting consumers from legal content and on banning dark patterns. What are dark patterns? Are patterns referred to tricks used in websites and devs that make you do things that you don't mean to like buying or signing up for something and we need to address these. The most important provision for me then is a very important point which is at heart we need to protect all vulnerable citizens including our children and indeed our legislation our proposed piece of legislation is insisting on the importance of a ban on collection of data from minors to conduct targeted advertising. Then the DMA the Digital Market Act attains that improving competition and restoring fair markets. It is aimed at bit players in the sense that it regulates certain abuses or dominance which could happen by bit players which may not allow smaller players including Assamese to come forward within the market. We really need a new market which is open to everyone to reach their potential including our small and medium-sized enterprises. I work a lot on Assamese policy even in the TREP Committee and I really believe that there's a huge potential in the digital field also for our Assamese. I want to ensure that EU businesses are not stifled when trying to enter or succeed within the EU market. Proving competition means also improving the customer experience and the customer's choice in reality. We want to allow consumers to have choice and fair prices. I personally looked also at the Digital Market Act from a tourism perspective. Trust me when I say that we need legislation of the sort to protect our European businesses and maintain the diversity presence in the EU markets. The DSA and the MA are now currently being negotiated in triumphs under the guidance of the French presidency. The EU is also moving forward when it comes to regulating the use of artificial intelligence. We know how AI is spreading and we need to have clear rules in place to ensure that there is protection but also incentivizing businesses to develop in this field. Again, first in the world, again we are drawing attention to the other continents. So make it brief. The EU wants to take a risk-based approach to AI to ensure that safety and human rights come first. AI will benefit our society but must be deployed carefully and we must have clear rules and disfills. Think about, for example, facial recognition technology or social scoring. There are risks associated and we really need to address that. Here I am working more from the transport and tourism side of things as also the reporter on the socialist behalf and the committee of the transport and tourism and it's important that we push forward a strong legislation. Then there are other important aspects in the extra committee. We're working also as shadow reporter in my case on the policy program of the path towards the digital decades. We hear a lot when it comes to the environmental targets with European unions putting forward important targets that we need to achieve whilst making sure that we leave no one behind when it comes to the different segments of our society when it comes to our vulnerable citizens but also vulnerable regions and we need to make sure that we leave no one behind when it comes to member states respective of whether they are small or large whether they are central on the continent or our islands or beyond and therefore this is very important even when it comes to digitalization and its targets. We need to work with member states and the stakeholders and have an ambitious program. We are putting targets for 2030 similar to the targets in the sense that we have targets of the Green Deal for the environmental aspect but also we're putting forward targets for the digital aspect and in this regard I look forward to working with the stakeholders to put forward ambitious targets not to leave our businesses behind our semis but also our citizens. We need to look at basic skills basic skills which are essential as the work has shifted more online as the services have shifted even more online during the pandemic including basic services and make sure even when it comes to public sector services that will have the digitalization in place. The recently published proposal for an inter-institutional European declaration on digital rights and principles is also an important initiative to mention. With some colleagues who are calling to strengthen the text to avoid a missed opportunity we need a stronger call we need a charter of digital rights within the EU and we need to look even at stress even beyond. There are some digital rights which we should consider as human rights including when it comes to the access of the internet as a human rights. We know that the internet is no longer a necessity but it is a must and therefore it's not I'm sorry it's no longer a luxury but this is a necessity and it's a must and therefore we need enablers first and foremost we need enablers of connectivity of skills and of recognizing stronger rights and giving them a stronger status to make sure that we get there. The pandemic has taught us how important internet accessibility is as I said and indeed this is a long process when I speak of human rights of recognizing certain certain digital rights as a human right but we need to start working towards this process. I hope that from what I have explained today it may be clear a bit to the citizens what the EU is doing from a digital perspective. What is key to underline is also that from the proposals which have been put forward and the preliminary outputs come from panel one citizens have been putting forward requests on issues that the EU is in some respect already taking action on. Just as an example an orientation is on a new legislation for online advertising and the DSA which we've been working upon is already presenting some text calling for the pen on targeted advertising for example. I won't comment much at the stage when it comes to the cleanery outcome from panel one but I wanted to quickly pick up on some important points which were put forward. I really like the concept of democratization of digitalization and to do this digitalization must be really accessible to everyone. It calls for school curricula to teach digital skills from an early age or the call to fight harmful content and speech online. All very important principles which you must take on board and continue fighting upon and working upon in the European Union. The point I am making is that the recommendations from panel one are also promising with their suggestions and I really cannot wait to read the final ones. I look forward also to analyzing them within the digital transformation working group at the conference cleanery and I look forward to the Q&A which ensues. Thank you very much and thanks to all who joined us. Thank you Josiane and thank you to all three contributors for some fascinating contributions. I was scribbling notes while I was listening to you and we have Collin talking about security in a number of different dimensions not just militarily but also in terms of foreign policy, energy, environment, food security. Security was a very strong theme that I got from you. Laurence started from the Erasmus that wonderful Erasmus scheme and the whole theme of mobility and particularly its impact on our younger citizens and that then went to a really nice discussion I thought about what we can do to help our younger generation and not least the demands of our younger generation for new forms of participation. And then Josiane you were talking about your particular prominent theme of digitalization and how that affects questions to do with human rights and freedom of expression more generally. You discussed at the Digital Services Act you discussed the possibility of a charter of digital rights and the theme of artificial intelligence. So we've got a really rich feast of different themes that each of you have brought to the feast and so I guess I could just start and actually let me just interrupt myself before I start with my question just to remind everyone that if you have any questions please put them into the Q&A now we already have one but I would like a few more and if possible tell us your affiliation and your name as well so we know who we're talking to. But my question I want to go first of all to all three panelists with the same question based on this rich feast that you've introduced to us. What are your expectations for this weekend? What are your expectations for the conference on the future of Europe generally? Is it going to make a difference? And let me be a little bit more precise. Do you envisage treaty reforms? And if there are not treaty reforms has this been a waste of time? So I'm trying to be a wee bit provocative just to get the discussion going but let me go in the same order as we started with Colm your mute. I don't know is the answer I wouldn't be so sure one way or the other I think definitely we do need a meaningful engagement and I wonder if today we've had that and certainly I think there's a need to get that level of engagement and I suppose it's not just about treaty change it's also about policy in different areas that can be acted on within legislation within the parliament or the like but I do wonder are we getting enough of a meaningful engagement with the citizens on the ground? And I think it's critical that we do and I think we have to ask a question about like where it'll go in terms of treaty change just what that would look like and what the various like most of what's been talked about has been the detail of we'll say be it climate policy or be it digital transition or things like that various things like that and I don't know that that it necessarily has engaged today to the level that it needs to to really like if you ask the ordinary person on the street how they engage with the conference in the future Europe I don't know if they are not and it's not that I'm being critical of it but I think the challenge is on us all to make sure that there's meaningful engagement and then we have to go back again to have further engagement I think it's very important where that goes in terms of policy I think there's a lot more to it than treaty change and I think there's a lot can be achieved just in terms of work plans and initiatives and direction of travel in terms of the environment in terms of the digital base in terms of the young people so as I say there's it's multifaceted but my underlying concern is are we talking to ourselves or are we talking to the public and either concerned or ultimately not talking to the public enough in this okay slightly slightly pessimistic then Laurent thank you very much of course as a pure European group we have big hope with the conference and it's a very difficult way because we have to reach big agreement between all the institution and the three institutions so what's happening at the citizen level is one thing it's very important because as I said it's the first time that so huge consultation is happening so it's very important that every citizen after the Brexit after this wave of populism has the occasion to have a reflection all together about what Europe can really deliver so I think this point is very is the plus is very important and we will see what will happen this weekend but we have already the conclusion of the first panel and as you mentioned there are a big challenge with the treaties because we have this panel about democracy of course the unanimity rule is a big challenge so all of us and in the parliament and I see my colleague were not in line on this topic but I am profoundly in favour because we can go further without this without reopening the treaty when it comes to of rule of law of budget and so on and we see we are very in a very crucial moment with all the risks that are on Europe security after the crisis and so on so I'm having big hope I'm not sure really of what is going to happen because I think the parliament will in majority be in favour of going further but what can we wait of the council I'm not sure I know there are very big issue at the time we are talking about the question of finance of rule of law of course so I'm not sure of what is going to happen but we have made a big progress with this process of the conference because now we need to to deliver for citizens and what they will say we have to hear it and to I think we can stop in May we can stop in May we have to do it again and to have this conservation in the future sorry for my poor English but I hope it's understandable for you so I think we haven't won yet sure it's difficult I think there are the discussions are very interesting because when we see elections after election in all the countries we see the right of the populist but when you hear from the citizens it's really different they want more Europe they want us to be more harmonized so it's you know it shows that we have to reflect together and to have more intelligence maybe in the democracy so that's my point of view I think as I said it's a progress it's a big hope and then we'll see thank you thank you everyone's we shall certainly see Josiane for sure I do look forward to the recommendations which will ensue from the citizens' panels as to the way forward we still have to wait a bit but yes there's the question of the treaty change and we do have specific rules when it comes to treaty change and the and the treaties however there could be other initiatives as my colleagues here have stipulated that we could state there could be funding programs which will come in line also with the citizens' priorities there could also be legislative change through the ordinary legislative procedure for example but beyond that is this exercise an important one is it a valid one? let me start by stating that I really wish that it could be given more media attention because I really feel that there's not enough media attention to this secondly for me it would really be effective if we really managed to reach more of our citizens and when I speak of reaching the citizens it's not only those who are online but also those who do not have the skills or who do not have the digital equipment to connect it is reaching those who are your skeptics and not only those who are in favor of the EU because in reality we need to listen to everyone and we need to engage with everyone and this is a really important point for me and in my also discussions I have with my citizens I try to discuss a bit this process that we are undergoing together I really also believe that we should take lessons from this process for future consultations that we embark upon as a European Union and here I wanted to share one example I am the Socialist and Democrats at a conference in Malta some months ago and within this conference we also discussed certain important issues and certain important suggestions inviting various youth coming from different backgrounds and I mentioned here a proposal from a citizen his name is Jean Jean is wheelchair bound but is very active youth and he mentioned the fact for example that the website of the conference and the online platform should be more interactive even for example when it comes to speech to text mechanisms and applications and other important aspects so I really believe that through this process if we've come across even certain feedback which may not necessarily have been implemented in this process we should implement it in future consultations to come because at the end of the day that's the effectiveness of it the proposals received the feedback received when it comes even to how the process worked shouldn't stop with the end of this process but should continue also beyond with regards to other consultations who will make as a European Union in the future thank you thank you very much we have about seven or eight minutes before we have to conclude the discussion so if it's acceptable I might just throw a question at each one of you and see how we go with that perhaps if I could start with you Laurence given the role that the French president has played in promoting this kind of approach to engagement and dialogue with citizens in France very prominently in recent times and given the fact that you are facing into presidential elections in France can I ask is there much interest being played in the conference of the future of Europe and particularly these citizens panels in the French debate are there lessons being learned for how this could be further implemented in your country you know unfortunately when you have a domestic discussion and policy it's bigger than all so what I have to underline and to mention is that of course the French government has had a lot of initiatives about the conference so we had just before the process big regional consultations in all our region in France so that we were able to listen to all the citizens of all the region with all the differences and it has been treated in a report so as a French MEP from the majority we had them and it's you know the conclusion were really interesting but I shared the point of Josiane that we not need more media it's the same thing in France French people hear a lot of the French presidency and unfortunately because we had the issue with Ukraine and the price that is ongoing but we are very much hearing about that maybe you know the speech in the plenary of President Macron was very hard in France the first time that we see the European Parliament at French TV maybe I don't know but it's bigger than the conference we really have an issue with it at the European level of course I absolutely share this point because because it's new maybe only and we have to install this form of direct participation direct democratic participation but I think when I have organized in my small city I've organized the panel and I had a lot of people coming to and they had a lot of idea about things we never speak about when you have a public debate because when as my colleague Com mentioned when you talk about climate change when you talk about security when you talk about agriculture of course it interests everybody and or digital issue so my answer is no but we see that when you create space of the debate it works thank you thank you very much it's for somebody who's a big promoter of deliberative approaches involving citizens it's wonderful to hear what is going on in your country and particularly to hear your local initiative in your city of pow we have had some questions and so what I was going to do perhaps if this is all right is direct a question at the remaining panelists because I think this will bring us to the end of the time so Josiane I was going to ask you one of the questions from Daryl Lawler who is an economics researcher from the IIEA you may have seen the question yourself do you believe the conference should consider the possibility of treaty changes oh thank you pardon sorry it's the wrong one it's the other one because you've already asked that one do you think the parliament should have a larger role in the formation of policy in the EU given that you come from the European Parliament it would be interesting to hear your perspective on that and so how should that be addressed by the conference so when it comes to a stronger role of the European Parliament and several of the resolutions being put forward by the European Parliament and therefore by the MEPs voting up on it there are always these clauses asking for a stronger role of the European Parliament the European Parliament is directly elected institutions but by the citizen and therefore has an important weight in this regard having said that we know that treaty change requires also unanimity and there are certain competencies which also belong to the member states but having said this it's also a true fact that the European Parliament can put pressure and influence even when there are exclusive competencies falling under the member states which regards to whether this should be linked to the in relation to the conference of the future of Europe for sure there are discussions being held and there are also proposals being put forward the thing is that what I can state is that when it comes to certain competencies whether we should go towards a more federal Europe or not there are divergent views being put forward so some would call for a more federalist Europe some would not some would require more competencies to be given and for the member state power to be lessened others not but to preserve the member states competence so we really have to see how to put also these ideas together and these different conflicting ideas at times together to ensure that we move forward but the great thing about this exercise is that everyone can participate and we can really listen to the different views Thank you Colin there's a very particular question that you may have seen in the chat so you've had a time to think about it from Deerwood McCree relating to the present energy crisis and should Ireland now build a bat nuclear reactor for electricity generation can you perhaps give some response to that certainly it's a very specific question all right I think in the in the Irish context I would say no in that if the Irish ambition or the recognition that we've enormous capacity in offshore wind I think it's anything from 50 gigawatts up on floating offshore on the west coast that's really where our ambition should lie now alongside that there's talk of an interconnector to France and given that 80% of French energy is produced by nuclear I don't think we could present ourselves as not using nuclear power I think we have to be realistic that that probably will be part of our future but I think as a transition fuel it has a place both from Ireland's perspective there's not much point in investing in a transition to nuclear when we could invest in an ambition to towards offshore wind or similar and I think that's that's where our ambition should lie as opposed to going for a nuclear reactor and I think certainly the combination of offshore renewable energies and also connecting ourselves to the grid more effectively at European level I think is is not and that's not I wouldn't be opposed to nuclear in the overall picture I think we would be hypocritical if we are going to connect to France but I think in an Irish context we have other potential and we need to try and harness that potential thank you now we have two minutes because then I have to run to give a lecture in another part of this building so forgive me for being rushed but I do want to ask this last question of each of you and if possible if you could give a brief response but on the whole do you think the experiment of these citizens panels in the countries of Europe has been a success and do you think it should become institutionalized it should become a regular feature and perhaps I'll start with you Josiane thank you very much it's important that we had the citizens the citizens panels I believe but let us remember that throughout our consultations it's even more important to continue reaching out to citizens not only those who are on the panels but even beyond and this was my message to someone who in one of the cleaners is a citizen representative and the panels who also has a question about how we can make this engagement even stronger and I ask this citizen representative to help us to reach these citizens whether it's effective or not we stand to be judged I think in a few months and even in some years but let's keep the discussion going with our citizens and yes let's explore mechanisms and new mechanisms possibly of how to continue effectively consulting our citizens thank you Colin I'll ask the same question of you as I said at the start I think the initiative has had limited success I think I probably didn't reference the whole Covid scenario which hasn't helped that situation or should we continue it I think absolutely we should continue it I think it's I would feel the nature of Europe and like if you look in many ways we look to devolve power to local government as much as possible and like this whole idea of a federal Europe and that in many ways is centralizing power so I think definitely power that can bring when you can bring communication back to people it's very important I think an initiative like this it'll be over before people will have bought into it so I think that the idea of having it on a continuous basis the idea doing it digitally at one level is very important but the point was already made that I think we need to make sure that everybody's included so I would be for this sometimes when something like this is over people will think I should have got involved and I think it comes again and there's another opportunity the more we do it the more people will engage with it and I think that's the idea here that we this is only a first attempt at it it's been in a Covid pandemic we absolutely need to continue to do this because of the nature of Europe and because of the nature of of discourse at this stage having become somewhat disconnected or certainly people's opinions aren't challenged enough maybe in this format we can challenge opinions more thank you and I get the last word to Laurence thank you I think we'll see in a few weeks if it's a success or not but now a day we can say that it's a success in terms of events and of participation because it's an innovative exercise so it's very interesting because we have this online platform we have a lot of participation even though we need more women for example because we have a very low rate of women participating but it's a beginning we have as well this new format of discussion with citizens but as well with the string institution with the members of the national parliament and with the Committee of Regions Committee of Regions it's new to have this an exchange at this level and exchanges and talking here with the regional elected people it's really interesting for Europe so it's new and I think it has to go further so I answer to your second part the second part of the question is it to be repeated and institutionalized I think so of course because we need to to give this discussion a follow-up we can stop now there are too many things that are changing in many ways so we'll see which what will be the results in a few weeks and then I think we have to go further of course thank you thank you and I just want to on behalf of everyone who is in this webinar thank our three excellent panelists fascinating presentations and discussion and Colin Markey, Laurence Foreng and Josiane Cutajar thank you for your time thank you everyone for your questions and let's hope that this panel this weekend proves to be the success we all want it to be thank you