 Wel, gynnw'r toffi TV, mae'n peir join by El Pavoti. Andy is with us. We're going to talk about Jean-Philippe Gabamann and that injury, what it means forever. But before we start that, and because it will filter into this, Andy you've done your company in my KT analytics, is that right? Marker insights. You've done something with the athletic about 10 days ago now, which was basically, you've set a task of how you'd go about getting players for Everton by using data and stuff like that. What was that like to do with directly applying that to Everton? Well, it's something that obviously we do anyway on the show and I obviously do a lot of it. I do research for when I come on show, but it was interesting, Paddy. I had spoken to Tim Keech, his stop bunch on Twitter, and he said that we would like to do it. And yeah, we just decided that we were going to go at the angle from where we looked at Everton's squad over the next couple of years, see what the contract situations look like. We had a look at the data, see where the weaker areas were, where we can see the goals from, where the lack of creativity was coming from most of the sentiment field in the right back area, the main issues. And yeah, we were pretty happy with the end product. We've got a lot of good feedback. I think a lot of people enjoyed the article. Obviously it's without no budget, some without no specific decisions that have been made on players. It's very hard to get it exactly accurate. Yeah, we were happy with the choices we made. And yeah, it was pretty good by man's injury and I think that would change some of the article somewhat. Now, you know, you'd have to look at probably out in the field or possibly on loan, I guess, as well as the, you know, as well as the Sue Sumaris and Gary type play that we were looking at originally. One of the things that I found really interesting was the money, the time the players spend on the pitch and how much money goes out of the budget on those players. So I guess it's something we look at broadly in Govell. We don't get anything out of him playing and we don't get anything out of him. But I thought that was really interesting and how much, when the contracts expire next year, how much of that budget back in the club. So I mean, that was something I hadn't really seen done before. So I thought that was interesting. Yeah, I think that's something that the ills of evidence spend over those first couple of years where we've got a lot of players now on the periphery because we've changed managers. The more you change managers, the more new managers want to change over. We want different types of players and I think without that consistency, obviously we change directors of football as well. We tend to find ourselves with like Sandra Ramirez. He's not obviously in the playing zero minutes this season for us. He's out on loan. We've got Ciaran Dahl on 25,000 pounds and he's out on loan somewhere. So there's a lot of money on the periphery of evidence squad, you know, including Morgan Schneider than others. We don't play the full minutes. It costs a lot of money. I think that's what Brands was talking about in the AGM where he said he wants a tight 23-man squad with the rest of the film. We don't have a lot of money, 28, 29 players in the squad. We have the right amount of money, this is a piece of between the squad members who are going to be useful. I mean, me and Pedro, we obviously got it over the government thing because we were looking forward to seeing him back. I mean, we've talked about maybe binning in me being, getting a chance. Yeah, because that's got to be the next thing, hasn't it? And we spoke about this a while ago on one of our live shows when we were talking about how we haven't been like twin tracking players, you know, a garner with a binning in me coming through at the same time. And like you've just said there, making the most out of the players that you've already got. We seem to have just such a surplus of players that we don't use, that we know and we frustrate us. But we also have a surplus of youth players that sort of get a chance and then are pulled to a side and then go on loan and then the loans don't seem to work out. And it's very frustrating as a fan, especially frustrating as a, maybe if you're, listen, we don't, we're not all, we've all got different levels of our sort of fandom. Listen, you're at the higher end where you, it's your job to analyse these players. But if you've seen a binning in me coming to the side two years ago and then drift out of the side and then go on loan and you're like, where's he gone? And you don't get to see the under 23s. That must be really frustrating as a fan to not understand what the way these players are. Because if in the old days, if I'd seen a player two years ago in the reserve say when I was a kid, if they were in the first team squad the next season, they would have another club. And I find that very, very strange now that we aren't giving these kids a chance. Do you think that, just get your answer on that, but secondly to that, do you think this five subs rule will possibly help those kind of players going forward? Yeah, the first thing I think the reason that you do find that with the way the players stay for too long or players just drift out of the event first teams deals with the Premier League. I think players can aim too much money by sitting around, you know, in the squads, you know, look, I was, I think we've seen that Winston Bogart's nephew made his debut today. Winston Bogart's the prime example of when it starts with the Premier League. He was in like 35, 40 grand a week sit on the bench for five years and never did none. And I think, yeah, if you look at Benninga Mee, you think when he made that, I think it was the Chelsea game and the cup he made his first appearance, didn't he? And he had that Greek display. And you think, all right, then let's have a plan for him. And he went on that loads, but it's a week and you can play one game, got injured and then it's just nothing since then. I think it is frustrating for fans because he gave them a little bit of a flicker of hope because he did look like an event and fans type of player. And then, yeah, secondary to that, you know, as you say, sorry, what was the second question? No, it was the five subs. Sorry, yeah, five subs. Yeah, I think it will be. Sorry, yeah. I think it's definitely good. I was talking tomorrow on the show where I think Gordon will get a chance to key. You know, obviously, I think it behooves, yeah, especially in the early games while people are getting fit to get those legs on around 65, 70 minutes. I'm just going to go out teams because if you know if you release Gordon Key on defenders who are tired in those early games, I think it will really help. So, yeah, I think you'll see more and more young players be given a chance. I hope, you know, I do hope Key and Gordon sees their chance now. And then baby Beningamey, if he's on the bench, I think obviously he's got Delphine, Davis, Sigardson, Shnardlin ahead from probably, but hopefully he's given a chance at the very least. I think he is registered for the Premier League as well. I think one of the things, I'm not convinced Shnardlin's going to be fit actually, leading a couple of things. So, I know he's recovering from a knee injury, but I was going through the who scored, you know, got some stats from them and I know it's all a pinging on, and it's based on touches in the game and how they passed it and stuff. But I was going through the ratings of the players because obviously me and Ped had done stuff last week and we were talking about specifically actually the early part of last week was Gabanan coming in with maybe Gomez. And then what do we need for the summer? I think it was a question we had in off one of our patrons of, you know, what type, what profile do we need to get through the centre of my field? And I was looking through the kind of players ratings and looking at the likes of Guilfe, Sigardson, 20, you know, 2029 minutes equating to 23 games, one goal, two assists, 6.68 out of 10 average rating. Andre Gomez much smaller scale, 789 minutes, no goals, no assists. Fabian Delph, 13 games, no goals, no assists. Average rating is 6.49. Tom Davis, 15 games, one goal, no assists. Morgan Snideland, 12 games, no goals, no assists, 6.42. So they're on midfielders at the minute. Just straight off that. I know Ped's not a great lover of stats. Those stats tell me everything I need to know. But what I was going to say to you, for a country, Andy, is just looking at them basically, it just shows a glaring thing immediately like that. Nothing in the middle of that midfield. And I think this is where people look at someone maybe like Andre Gomez and they look at him and go, you're supposed to be our most creative, talented midfielder. And you've got one goal in the whole time you've been at the club and maybe a couple of assists at the whole time you've been at the club. So, if you're supposed to be our most creative player and we know, listen, don't get me wrong, we know he's not number 10. He's the player that keeps it all ticking over. But if you haven't got that or the player or you haven't got, listen, I suppose, and Andy will know more about this than me, if you've got a side like Liverpool where the three midfielders who do all the doggies and your fullbacks are your wit and they're the ones who are creative, then you can get away with that. You don't expect like a Henderson or a Fabinho to score goals or even assists, but he's still talking with a couple here and there because you can see where those are coming from. But when you've got, if you add Wolcott to that and you add what Moise Keane scored so far and you add what Bernard scored so far and you add what Wobby scored so far, you're looking at that going, that's even worse, that is even worse. And if it wasn't for our two centre forwards hitting form at the right time, we'd be in real trouble, I think. I think, I mean, just what Peds said there, Andy, it's glaring isn't it, immediately just reading off those stats right off the bat. Yeah, it's not true, it's not true. It's also, you know, you look at the way what's happened since Karl came in, Karl who's an astute manager who looks at things and says, you know, I'll have to sacrifice certain things to get the best out of this squad. And instantly he's gone, we have to go more direct, the midfield's got nothing, there's nothing coming out of the midfield. And if you look at, we've put that graph up in the athletic where it was like how many passes come from the midfield into the final third. And one of the ways in the Premier League, in terms of like trying to get in the ball out of the midfield into the final third to the strikers, it's a lot of the time it's from the full backs or from the back really. So, yeah, I think ever need to look at that, I think last season even with Garner and Gomez, it was to say you were at one point before that run on the Marcus Silver, we were 20th in the league in terms of creating chances from the field. So it's a problem, Mary, and I think you talk about Liverpool and you're right to say they play three hardwares in the field, but they all can play a pass, they can all start to move and I think evidence. I think to get the best out of Gomez, so Mary, I don't think it's the 4-4 to you, I know you're a big fan, but he'll have to become the Valencia and Andre Gomez for us to beat for the two way because we need that bit in drive and forward and picking the teams apart, breaking the lines, breaking the defence down more. I think to be a top six team I think, I think Carlo maybe can get it out of him because Carlo's a bit of a player whisperer and he can get the best out of players. But then I think next to him, if Gabamon's not going to be fit, you need someone who can add that structure and I think that's probably why you'll come on. So you might have been in the plays like an Allen or like a Huyberg. I just look at that, you'd absolutely right with the Gomez thing, but I think half a bit I think sometimes he doesn't want to go because he's not trusting what's behind him. No, he needs someone next to him who he can like a Garner or a Gabamon or whoever, you know, one of these players. I still think he's very wary of his own legs. I mean that before the injury. I think he's, I don't know if he's fully confident in his own ability to get round the pitch. I always find that he's like just almost like keeping that reserve. Do you think? I don't want to look at him. Don't you always look at him and think he's trying to say something to him. Maybe that's because he looks at the bench and says for the last 20 minutes I need to have some legs in me because there's nothing coming on the pitch or what. I don't know. Players will, and I think that's the problem when you've got only a certain amount of quality plays in the side. Players will look to the bench and say I've got to reserve myself for the last 20 minutes here because we're going to need something. And I think that's where you've got to be cleverer with a squad. You've got to have. And this is where actually where Sigurdson when he was on the bench actually worked because someone like Andre Gomez could look to the bench and go you know what, I can give everything for 70 minutes and then a Sigurdson can come on and give that little extra spark at the end. And that's where you've got to have a manager and I suppose we've got one now that can hold that over a player and say to a player listen, I know what I'm doing. Some games you're going to be the last 20 minutes and you're going to come on and you're going to smash the opposition to bits because I've studied these and these fall to bits in the last 20 minutes and this is where you get, this is where you... You remember when Sigurdson came on against West Ham, right? He didn't come off the pitch because I asked him that he'd only got the last 10 minutes or the last 15 minutes. He went look at that goal I've just scored basically. And footballers are so egotistical that if they play five minutes and score the world, they'll probably be quite zappy with that most of the time. So I think that's where we need to improve as well. Do you think the period, do you think that if we would have had someone better next to Sigurdson in that 4-4-2, that he would have improved? Because he's in. He's been in with people like Snidel and it hasn't worked with the so slow period of them. Delth's been at miss as the figures prove it. Tom's all over the place at the minute but he can't get a consistency from him. And Gomez has had a couple of injuries then got a bad injury and then has just come back. If Sigurdson would have had a powerhouse next to him, maybe he could have got his game going in same repart. He's still on the ratings here. He's our best midfielder according to the ratings. My eyes don't tell me that. My eyes tell me that he's being poor. I will be. Let me give you the short answer. No, no, let me give you the short answer and then Andy will give you the long answer. Yes. Our midfield, all of them look terrible without Garni. I'm sure Andy can give you the reason why that is but all I'm in feel, look poor without Garni. And that's the truth and that's my eyes. I don't need stats to back that up. I know that's fact. I'm sure Andy will give us all the stats to back that up right now. No, I don't need stats. Basically what happened last season? I think this is why Carlos stopped the press is because we were pressed so high last season and when we were at the silver area this season we were still pressing but without Garni so shut that back door and without Garni teams are just getting good chance after good chance after good chance. That's why we lost against your Bernleys and people like that just hit us on the counter and won't get a goal and just sit behind. And I think the main issue with your cigarettes and I just don't think it will work with him. I think he talked about it before as his legs have gone. The issue for Gilfee Sigston, the closer you get him to goal the better he is because that's where he's going to provide that you can shoot. Having him making them runs from midfield is asking too much of his legs at this point. I just think Sigston is just not right for everything currently. I think he's getting good season last season. I think he went missing at certain points and goals got him out of trouble in certain games. But I think with Garni behind him I think he could just stay in that 10-row and now with him having to do more work off the ball. I just don't think he's in the right areas and I think the best games he's had this season have been where he's probably found space where people have played three at the back and he's probably found space where he can cross the ball in. I just don't think he's had that. I just don't think he can have that impact. I think the best Miffiel would probably have had would have been to get Batman and Gomez and then maybe Tom Davis. I think obviously a lot of fans have gone in his back. Tom Davis is more consistent. I think he would have played more games as well because I don't think Tom's done too bad. It's just he has those games where he just the concentration goes. But yeah, overall I think evidence Miffiel the big issue is without Garni it's just too porous in the centre back and it's just too much work. I mean, I've got the couple of the alternatives who have been, you know, we've been linked with Pierre Emile Huyberg at Saltampton is one. He's had 27 games. No goals, one assist. Listen, whatever, but 6.82 is right and it's Ibrahim Isangari who is someone we love Andy at Toulouse available for decent money but again, no goals, one assist. Allen 14 games at Napoli obviously fell out of favour. He's got one goal and one assist this season 6.75 rating and Dennis Sicari who is a favour to mind. 22 games, two goals, two assists. 7.15 rating so much higher than Warazab. I mean, Ped said something before and I think you've mentioned it as well is that if you've got if you've got two players say it's like Liverpool, they have three if we were to bring what I would say is that out of four I've mentioned there the alternatives all four of them are very mobile and would change our midfield anyway not necessarily creative wise but if they're capable of getting that midfield area control of it, A protecting your centre back and B winning the ball and getting it to your creativity and surely that makes us improve Sigarton's the biggest Sigarton hasn't necessarily lost and I'm sure Andy will tell me whether the stats back this over or not but Sigarton can't have completely lost his legs over a six months period where he's gone from playing his best footballer ever to his worst footballer ever what has happened in my eyes and I'm just talking about as a football fan going to what the game is like you've just said having those players behind them like a garnet who can do all that work who allow the team to get up the pitch who allow the fullbacks to get up the pitch who allow him to play in his favourite role and not after drift back so we can't get forward you know this is a lad who was in double figures in goals last season and scored one Premier League goal this season right so surely having that player who can get round the pitch is the big loss for his game now don't get me wrong there will have been some kind of I'm sure he wouldn't be the maybe not the same player but you can't tell me that a player who was in his best form for his football club maybe in his curious ones I don't know when he had Lerente but you can't tell me that that's not because he doesn't have a mobile player there's got to be it's not always on one player's shoulders it's got to be part of the team as well but the positional change has come because he hasn't got garner because the whole teams had to almost take a step we said this at the beginning of the season me and Andy talked about it quite early in the season when we were talking about the centre backs and we were saying what does having no zoomer mean for the club and what it meant and we were talking about this quite early on was having two static centre backs who are going to have to play 10 yards further back so suddenly if you've got the centre backs and maybe we're not talking enough about the pace of zoomer either you take the pace of zooming out of the team and having that ability to play 10 yards out of the pitch and then you take garner out of the team that allows the midfield you suddenly lost 20 yards and you're wondering why you midfield and not bossing the edge of the box so you know it's more than just one player but it's all these collective things that have gone against us I think I think there's a lot of it's quite a big conversation really around that it's not just recruitment over the last two years you have to look further and the reliance on garner is probably too much and we probably should have shifted to a 4-3-3 on the silver when we were supposed to rather than still playing the 4-2-3-1 which exposed the need for garner on even further because as you say we'll mention them again Liverpool apart from Fabinio please have you played Milner, Henderson and Wynaldu none of them specifically a defence in the field in the garner mould are they but as a unit they're very effective they work hard, they win the ball back they distribute it well and I think if we played that three and we probably played you know Delph Delph, Cobam and Gomez is the play I think we would have been fine I think it's just with the 4-2-3-1 on the high press they just left so many gaps on that when they started the season with Mead and Skeen and you know at times with Sidibe left hand up sorry that right hand channel was quite exposed at times for Michael Key because he doesn't like to defend in space there was a lot of tactical errors on the silver I didn't think he made the best use of the squad and I think with Carlo now he's gone to the 4-4-2 because he can make it more compact and easy to defend him but then like we've seen in the Chelsea game without that player to sit there on your screen they're back for him to set the balls coming through in the field Ross Barclay ran wild against us didn't he just put balls through in the field and I think when we sign a play you look at the options you mentioned there as they get back to now a very much defensive in the field as you know the people who will sit will play the ball they can do a variety of jobs to have a bit more of a box-to-box play it can get up the pitch fairer so it just depends what you want I think if you're going to play Gomez, Cobam and Zecari is a 3 I think we'd be laughing and remain I think if you play Gomez and Zecari they're back a bit defensive these are very good players Zecari he does win the ball back he doesn't offer that screening as much as a Hwybeg Hwybeg's more of it I think he's a better version of Schneivlin I think Pep did a lot of work with him in terms of his football intelligence I think that's why he's been so heavily linked I think Alan when he played in the 4-4-2 Napoli obviously he had next to him and Fabian Ruiz he did a lot of the legwork while having to be pushed on and I think that's why we'll look at the type of players now it's a very difficult position to fill because there's not many teams that play 4-4-2 so it's a tough position I think we'll fill it though I think we'll get the right player I just wonder who it will be really It's got to be two really hasn't it I know they were looking for one definitely and that was being based with Cobam so having lost Cobam until probably we'll have to look at it as if he's out for the season won't we for next season but hopefully he'll be back kind of February time you'd need to in there anyway and it may be a permanent and it may be a loan if you can get it and again it's someone like Huyberg fits it for the defensive outlet who else could you get? I'd love Sicario I think he'd be fantastic Alan's been mentioned a lot because obviously he knows him in terms of doing it's your term and being able to get the team to where it needs to be so I mean, what would you do with which two would you take out of those for? Well it's difficult because I think all four would have to be permanent deals for me this is me projecting so I'm projecting that we're looking a bit medium to long term as well you can roll three I think Alan, I think I've actually I think you've got a better squad I think if you're one or two players away you go alright 29 we'll take that gamble but I think when you couple maybe two seasons away in terms of building a squad I think you're probably going to have to look for more of Huyberg I think he's a bit younger than Alan Singari, I know some people at the club believe you've got a sense of his technical ability he's winning the ball back not this season but last season he was winning the ball back not to disintegrate to Garner he's being 6-4-3 he's a good player so I think they'd be good options I think Sakaria, if you had Gabamon already there I think that'd be a good option but what I would suggest he wouldn't do if he was one of them four I'd sign them permanently and then you'd look at someone who's probably maybe gone off to boil at a club like a Kessie for example get him an unload for a season get that option to sign if he does well let me have the option to sign but I wouldn't commit to two players so get one in unload, one in un pay and I think that would be my plan really do you agree with that Pedro? I mean how can I disagree with that? I mean in terms of like because you couldn't go and pay money for Alan but if Huyberg is effectively, is he in his last year so if he's in his last year I mean I don't know have we got anything we could offer up to them as a make weight Tom Davis maybe you used to say Tom Davis on loan I don't know I'm just saying just put it out there but used to say if he got him in because he's with a year left and you went out there and looked at someone like Alan the problem with Alan is it's that age against the question marks of how long would you give him can he play in the Premier League and you've got all the answers stack up to no unfortunately for us at the moment especially in the conditions that we're now under in financial terms how much does he want to get out of Naples how much does Naples want him to leave is there something one question there I think it's going to be very very interesting is how creative can football clubs be in this window if they are desperate for players but there is no movement money moving about how creative will they be are they going to look for will they be prepared to give us Alan on a two year loan with then a view to a buy or something the problem with that is for an Alan for example by the time that's two years up he's 31 his value's completely gone so the benefit that Naples are getting is taking the wages off the bill really there it's going to play like we get some Fernandez you mentioned earlier about I think it's given him two years it basically gives them figure a platform to show if he doesn't work out he probably still might be able to sell because he's played in the Premier League but if you're an Alan basically he used them the last couple of years of his primary and by the end of it he's not going to be worth much it's a difficult balance get some Fernandez though that's they've got a guaranteed deal so they can get him on I thought it was that's on the reino shed I'll say a price okay so why is the deal structured like that then so they don't have to see 34 million going on in one go couldn't you just do that anyway paying over five years anyway isn't that what the structure of those deals the deals are structured is this just to get around the FFP the reino shed the only money they're spending in the summer on loans and free transfers that's what Pepe is asking I think paying $72 over five years for Pepe because they didn't want to bulk the money up front Westam I think I've done it with Sutre they basically he's on loan but really they've said to his team it's going to be a pay and we're just going to take him on loan because the it's just being creative like football said like you said in two years time it's going to rebound they might do deals where they go wing wing we've signed them is basically the contract guarantee and maybe then when the banks rebound as well you can go to those kangaroo banks and get the money up front off them to buy your players it's going to be really interesting anyway obviously what was necessary before last week is now it's doubled in its intensity of whatever need isn't it I think yeah maybe a Huyberg makes sense given his age a year left Premier League experience played in the Premier League for four years three years sorry and getting someone like Frank Kessie who has lost his way a little bit but has potential to be a really good player at a club like Milano one players off their wage bill as well they're similar to us aren't they they spent a lot of money at the same time as us and it didn't really work so on a year's loan and go can you do it in the Premier League if you can there's our buy 20 million next summer over 25 million and we might be hopefully we'll all be in a much healthier place in 12 months time both financially and everything else so be very interesting Andy listen thank you very much for joining us mate that was really good and let's do it again as we move forward great stuff I'll see you soon cheers and make sure you give this video a thumbs up, subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos join us over on Patreon you can see a lot more of Andy see you later cheers and that was really good apartment at some bits these earphones go off so you're going and you're thinking wait till it you'll come back in a minute but luckily you come back near the end yeah yeah you're alright cos I know that you're