 Hello everyone and welcome back to for the minions the weekly podcast podcast Whatever you want to call it all about upcoming a third person mob is a whole variety of them We got updates this week for predecessor fault and Ethereal we don't have anything for overprime, which is a little odd But we'll still talk about them just like we do with Fred when Fred used to not have any updates ever They've been charting them out now. It's good to see it's good to see and then we're gonna talk about the poll Which the the numbers were being reported wrong. They were being counted correctly reported wrong We've got the actual finalized poll that we'll discuss and then the topic for discussion is we're gonna just Frankenstein these games together We're going to cherry-pick the best parts that we like from them and then see if we can create our own Ultra game ultra MOBA, but uh, yeah, that is I'm your host the man goose and joining me as Always is my friend and co-host jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I'm good man goose happy to be here. It is weird that we don't have any overprime news It feels like we've had overprime news more consistently than literally any of the others. Mm-hmm, so Interesting didn't notice that until just now, but with us this week. We've got the bearded Wolverine. Welcome back bearded. How are you doing? Thank you. Thank you. I'm doing great. I'm glad to be back and yeah, and those numbers being reported wrong I mean you think you know, it's almost like they reported the weather or something It's all guesswork it's all guesswork I do want to say that bearded wasn't my first choice, but uh I'm never anybody's first choice. You were the first host when we brought this back I am but I am the best choice you you were the first choice. You were the first choice I believe Bangu said like I could get stunt or bearded Right, so he put stunt in front. So I don't know All right, so before we offend anybody else and hurt some feelings. Let's let's move on to the news and updates Let's knock out predecessor real quick since they just hardly ever have any news They actually had some fairly decently big news this time Which was rampage is going to be their next hero to be added in to the game no idea when we'll be able to play him but uh, they announced him with a Nabori did a picture and then another post with an actual video of rampage What I could observe from the video. He has the rock which is pretty iconic You can't have rampage without that rock and then he also had the rumble, but that is all we know about From from that video about the rampage. So bearded Wolverine You want to talk about the rampage? We'll talk about predecessor. Are we sure that he's the next one? I mean like I know we they showed video of him being in game and they've also showed a picture of grucks They've showed Richter being as you know in the shadow ground of one of the announcements It also showed Faye when they were announcing that they're closing down the the stress test I mean like they kind of showed these heroes like which one is next which one are they all gonna be in when we go when we go At live again, or what how's that gonna work out? So I mean if we go based on what they've been saying and the order of them if they're gonna go one by one theoretically that means it's Faye grucks potentially Richter if that one if that one announcement actually means something and then rampage But if they're the I think they're all gonna be in there most likely I don't see why they would announce the Faye and then show gameplay of rampage But the phase not in the game anymore or not in the game yet rather So I'd imagine we're gonna see at least those three in game next next time we play the game whenever that may be But it feels like they're gearing up for something with all the posts suddenly so hopefully it's soon I never played rampage. Sorry. I never played rampage in Paragon So I don't really know what all of his stuff was I know that his ultimate he got really huge and like got like a Bunch of health of especially with you's in the jungle Did he have a passive in Paragon? Yeah, King of the jungle Health region while he was in the jungle. Yep. How's we don't watch it? Okay? I mean, so I'm gonna I would just assume the way Princess has been going I'm I really don't see them changing his kit very much at all I know they've they've been adding passives to heroes that don't have passives But I would assume they would just keep his the same image. They might bring number balance it a little bit But I think that he's gonna stay the same. I don't know. Yeah, like you said, we saw the rumble and we saw the rock which I Think those are the two main ones that you want besides the ultimate, you know. Yeah, well All right. Well before we get in the rampage. I just want to say real quick I don't think they ever announced the Faye or Richter Officially, they never sell. Yeah RGS ace in their discord when they went down on their stress test said the Faye will be in the game next that that was not just At ease that that was actually Okay, part of it. Okay. I appreciate that. They had a tweet today That also said how often and how much should you water house plants? There's literally only one plant character in the game So gotta be the Faye. So maybe that was just an actual Request might be one of them needs to know and they have some house plants and they need the water. Um, I Think my I had the best reply to it. I said it depends. Is it my faye? Virid plant this fucking guy with his joke All right, and that was beard Wolverine. Thank you so much. We're gonna go back to just man goose Bearded Wolverine in a nutshell Okay, so so they did say that the Faye, but they never really announced Richter though Correct. So I think we can probably expect the Faye grucks and rampage. Mm-hmm Now rampage with his Richter though When when Tiger was there Richter, you know, he kind of pointed out the fact that they wouldn't put him there In this is again in gen chat. He can't say they would they really put him there if it wasn't for a reason He never fully said that's that was for sure in there But he that's literally we know something that literally it's paraphrasing what he said Would they put him there if it wasn't for a reason? so again like out of that's what I'm saying like are we is rampage really the next one or is it Are we gonna get those four? How we I don't know they just keep announcing these heroes But we're still waiting to see more gameplay You know what would be nice though is if they would actually not like I have to look in discord on a certain date and time to find out and Yep, cuz like grucks was like a straight-up announce rampage seems to be a straight-up announce Yeah, from what you guys are saying they talked about in their discord or whatever about the fey and Richter, but If you're gonna have the fey and Richter in then fucking announce it because I'll You know that was my top my top three right well top four I guess was the Richter of the fey and then crunch and shinby like yep If you're gonna fucking announce it, then let me know man. God damn it But okay Back back to rampage. We're jumping all over the damn place Speaking of jumping and all over the damn place so rampage and ramp originally had his jump And it was replaced by that rumble maneuver that rumble maneuver just wasn't always a part of its kit Which makes me wonder if they're going to have like like over prime had the rock the rumble and the jump like is Is this are going to go the same way because a lot of people were pretty pissed off Whenever they were whenever they removed rampages jump. Yeah, I mean that to me is his second most iconic ability Is you've got the rock and you've got the jump and that is rampage. So I Would sit they could be a really good move to have the jump still in the game But he was also horribly unbalanced because of that jump at the same time. So it's one of those Are they confident enough in their balance team? That they implement the really strong factors of rampage into the game, right? So that was um epic was trying to remove a lot of the movement abilities when they removed the jump They moved his jump. They removed grucks his dash at the same time because they were tired of tanks being able to disengage from fights easily Out grucks is really a tank, but you know, he's a bruiser brain page There's more of a bruiser than a tank to a lot of people look him as a straight-up tank He actually had less health and armor scaling than steel or Richter or any of the ones He he was meant to be like a midway between a bruiser and a tank It just whenever he ulted up he could fucking tank Would that be a bank? Yeah, that would be a bank You could take that one to the bank So moving on, I mean the other thing they've shown We've had the majority of their new posts have been on twitter and yes Uh, I don't know how but I've been getting non-stop notifications from their twitter because of it So since they started posting like every reply I get a notification again I don't know what is wrong with my twitter, but it is it is telling me like you want to pay attention to this So the other thing they showed off on their twitter was a emote for Gideon Which we hadn't seen from them before is the emote system at all Yeah, I like what they've been doing they they've been an uh Kind of like doing a little teaser like you don't know like what's happening And then they would later on in the day they'll show you like hey, this is what that teaser was for Uh, so it kind of gets you excited, you know, you're all right now You're looking you're waiting to see what's happening. You know, oh, what's especially with the the the little tiktok Yo leak, you know, he you know that nebore was doing. Hey, I'm gonna be posting leaks or whatever pay attention You'll follow us. So um, so it's he's definitely staying towards that and it's nice to see Yeah, it's good to see a lot of updates out of them. Um But yeah, yeah, and then I didn't see the emote on twitter again I wish they would just centralize all this stuff Understand whether we'll just put it all in announcements because you kind of want announcements to be your Your big stuff your big. Yeah, your big stuff that you're announced through the community But I wish there was a tab in their discord that was just social media just in general And I could look at anything they do on twitter tiktok whatever just all goes to the same place and I could check that out In one centralized a location Yeah, absolutely And all right, so That's about all the news I had for predecessor. Did you guys have anything you wanted to discuss about pred before we move along? Not directly. No Nope Okay, uh, let's move on now to ethereal because ethereal announced some stuff that I am really really excited about And they also did something that a lot of us have been asking for for a long time Um, I think jelly probably had a lot to do with that, but I don't know talking about the road map But before we get to the road map, I want to talk about malware You guys are talking about a new adc that will hopefully be in the next Um Playable test That we have which will you said either march or april would probably be the first time So hopefully we'll have this hero in there by then but his basic attack He's an archer and his basic attack actually has draw and then you have Damage depending on how long you draw and um and projectile fall off So you it's kind of works like hanzo from overwatch except it's a moba Which I think is a brilliant concept for a 3d moba and I'm kind of surprised we didn't see it in like paragon at all I mean if we would have seen it it would have been on Uh sparrow we see it a little bit with her right click But like this is just every basic attack. So I think this is this is going to be really really freaking cool Bitter you're an adc main. What do you think about an adc that you have to manage this much with? Um I think the draw is fine because I think it just becomes more Uh, it just you're gonna find that that rhythm once you find that rhythm you'll be you'll be rolling with them And I'm okay with that. I'm excited for it. Actually the with malware what actually I'm worried about with him Is the the skill difference for me is the his, uh, right mouse button You know that what you know with ethereal and the right mouse button Like you literally have to continue toggling his unlike everybody with Dante You can choose whether or not you want to use the right mouse button and everybody else right now in ethereal You can choose if you want to use it or not And this one you literally have to continue what you're monitoring that because you'll be at the point You like you run out of mana or you you need it. Yo, is that the mana is health? I can't remember jelly will remind me resistances Or apply your past one every hit, but cost mana Yeah So yeah, and it's like something you gotta keep toggling that because if you're out of mana that it's like, okay Well, now I now i'm gonna lose resistance the whole time. Yeah, i'm getting health But i'm i'm i'm i'm getting enough health to counter the resistance. I doubt it, you know, and that's where it's gonna be Gonna be a challenge, but i'm excited for it We'll separate the wheat from the chaff the ones from the zeros as malware would say there we go that's I mean when When I first joined the team and we were talking about designing malware's kit One of the things that was already decided was his basic attack And so it was one of those things of like this has to be part of it and i'm like, yeah sold 100% That that's a great idea. I love it. Where do I sign? Um, yeah, so super super cool idea and I can't wait to Have everybody get their hands on it and feel how it plays Jelly won't you walk us through the rest of his kit real quick. Yeah, so malware's passive It's a three hit passive initially you every time you land a basic attack on somebody you apply a The one of three stacks when you get to that third hit it does a burst of damage And then applies a damage over time effect to that person The damage over time effect is just damage over time and it can stack up to four times This is where it comes in play with the right click when you have your right click toggled on You apply that damage over time On every hit that effect on every hit, but it costs you some of your mana as the downside If you have the right click toggled off you lose some of your resistances So your physical resistance and your magical resistance But you gain a heal every time that damage over time effect is applied So it's kind of providing that trade off Of healing versus applying more damage out there and you have to decide which one you want to use most often His q is overclock and it's just a straight up attack speed stim For malware because he's got the unique basic attack attack speed will benefit him and that it will reduce the draw speed So the more attack speed you have the faster you can draw to that full draw and get those shots going out there So do more damage more range more projectile speed like mangu said Is e is a spell shield that he pops it and he's got a spell shoot for a couple seconds If he blocks a spell whoever cast it then takes a stack of the damage over time effect So a stack of malware's passive And it resets his cooldown on his q so he can get that attack speed boost up again His r is that for every damage over time effect he has out on enemy myths He casts his r and he gains a damage increase for each of those stacks So the more stacks he has out there the more damage he gets when he presses the button It's going to have a lengthy cooldown because it's a very strong ability But if used well it can turn the tide of a fight by itself and then his ultimate is a Skill shots that goes through minions the first time when the arrow he shoots collides with an enemy myth They go to malware's reality It's kind of a 1v1 arena for a certain amount of time And if malware kills the enemy myth in that arena he permanently gains a percentage of their power So that it It's a lot like revenants ultimate Except you get instead of a bounty you get power and they take a little extra damage while they're in that Realm and it completely removes them from the map So you don't have like the problem with revenant was it was supposed to be just a one-on-one fight On like this alternate reality map, but like stuff would affect you inside and like Yeah, it was a big pain in the it never worked the way Epic announced that it was going to work and I think This implementation is more along the lines of what epic wanted for revenant Which again ethereal is not associated with paragon in any way. They're doing their own thing But a lot of the you know a lot of mobile kits are are quite similar and malware reminds me a lot of Revenant with like his the drama can't with attack speed Affecting his draw is kind of like with revenant attack speed affected his reload And then he's got this ultimate that puts people In an alternate reality another big difference though is that you actually have to it's a skill shot that you have to hit Like revenant was lock one a lock on you So one of the things I By listening to what was going on when I was in community corner Is this ultimate and then when you come back from the the malware's malware's reality You're literally in the same place that you guys left in so literally it's like, okay Like the other enemy team kid is like sit there and just wait It's almost like gray stones ultimate like you grace. Oh, you're here. All right. It's bad. Some went off and like now you're coming out like All right, everybody's for you. It's like, okay sweet. I got the kill But now I'm is like was it really worth it for me. I think that's going to be a challenge Um in that regards, uh, and when I think of malware's reality, I literally think of uh, I don't know Mangus, you might get this jelly. You might be too young lawnmower man Um the movie lawnmower man and how he was like Oh This guy this guy, okay So but that's what I think of I think of the lawnmower man I think of that as a little virtual reality type thing going on Old movie though, if you know it tell me in the comments below That appears brotha wasn't that yeah with malware's ultimate That's something that we're definitely aware of in as he's entering testing Is the fact that they get put right back in the same spot for both themes could be a problem Um, and so we have some ideas of how we want to combat that if that becomes a problem Right. Um, but so that's definitely front of mind in terms of that ability specifically And the big thing with malware is he's got two damaging abilities technically his basic attack and his ultimate If that's what that's from a damage perspective He's very straightforward of how he deals damage and it's just those two things So it's gonna be really interesting to see the skill differences we see from Okay malwares to good malwares to expert malwares It's a lot like grim grim's only got the two He's got his q and then is his basic attacks. Well, then he's got his ultimate too I guess the baby's got little three me a little more than than even malware there, but uh Another thing you guys said that throws me off Especially in a moba because an adc or a ranged hero has a certain range and and skifter said that The arrows have drop off like At what range are these arrows going to drop off like and how is that going to affect me You know with my range like am I literally do I just am I shooting a little kid's arrow like I gotta aim high So I could hit this person like how's that gonna work like because it's not like I'm trying to shoot across the map Yeah, it really makes me it sounds weird It's hard to explain well like without visual indicators of like this is exactly what it looks like, right? But it is something we're actively watching the drop off is not going to be yeah It's not going to be instantaneous, right that you're going to shoot an arrow and very quickly see it hit the ground Right, but it's finding finding what that balance is because the longer he charges. It does increase his range Um, so it's it's finding a good balance with that. Okay, I will definitely show off more as malware It comes closer to release Now do I get more for a headshot? No You get Angus indicated he's gonna try and aim for the head more often than not Yeah, well if it's gonna drop, I mean you might as well aim for the head that way at least you know hitting something Yeah, I think a lot of hanzo muscle memory is going to kick in playing uh Yeah, right Um, then the other big thing you guys went over We're not going to go over every single part of this But it was the uh roadmap This is something we've been asking for for a lot of these games is to have Like a visible roadmap and you guys did it really well You've got short-term goals mid-term goals and long-term goals and people can go in and it tells you when it's been updated So you can go in at any time on their website and check to see what they're working on At the moment, which I think is really cool. I think a lot of these companies need to go this route more often Jelly, what do you think are some of the more important short-term goals that people people would be excited to see Playable tutorial. I think is a big one. I don't know about excited to see necessarily, but I think it's a really important one to have Um Oh, goodness. There's a lot. Is that short-term? I thought I thought that was on the mid-term section No playable tutorial is in short-term. Okay full player onboarding is in the future So new player onboarding of all all the mechanics then they're in Um, but we're gonna have cast settings. I think is another big feature To help people and with that will come new ability indicators showing what the ranges are how to cast them all those good things The new characters, of course are a big one New map is a big one Um Controller support right off. I was just gonna say it man goose What sorry control is support. Yes. Yes That's another yeah, that's another huge one I mean, there's yeah, I think in my mind because I put it together. They're all important, but I love all my children equally Yeah, I think certain ones are probably more important to some people than others like uh better animations a lot of people Been looking forward to that and then uh controller support and in chat definitely chat That's the one that that was my big bugaboo like it if you can't communicate with your team. There's uh You got quite the issues I think the one that i'm the most excited for just because I think it's going to be your biggest night and day difference That you're going to be able to see is the mocap suit You know those little animations you be able to when you guys start getting the mocap suit going and then you'll be able to See those animations that change. I think that'll be a lot smoother and make the game look and feel more immersive Yeah, absolutely 100% thought you were going with a night and day pun about their day night cycle that they're That's in like their midterm goals. I think I Keep me on my toes bearded. You keep me on my toes like a midget at a urinal um So I think that was about it for ethereal. Yeah Yeah, I think we've talked about it all Definitely go check out the roadmap if you guys want to see what's all there because there's a ton of stuff on short term And we covered the new map in the last four of the minions So if you want to go back and watch that or go to um undying games as a youtube channel and check out that new map It looks Stunning, uh bearded. What are you gonna say about that new map before we beautiful roll on? Yeah, it's nice, right beautiful. Yes Yes, I I can't wait Yeah, if you guys don't know the ice lane now has snow on it looks like an ice lane fire lane burned out all the trees are The void of foliage and are kind of on fire and smoking and it's just and the void lane just looks even prettier than it used to so it's uh Quite the change and it's going to be really cool And it should be available in the next time it's tested the the play tests come out Which will be either march or april hopefully march, but Probably probably april I just hope danta has topics for the ice lane, so i'm not sliding around that can hold still Wasn't it you that said isn't just a mario level, right? We're gonna Enix of a mario level Like you go to take off you're just kind of spinning this place for a minute You got the boots slot, maybe you have to buy spike boots so you don't It's the ice lane tax you gotta buy spike boots Yep, oh, shit, and then the fire lane you gotta buy a fire boots, so you're not burning up If you don't buy fire boots, you just like a little small do t happened to you They're made out of asbestos Small do t adds to it Um Well, let's let's move away from ethereal get into fault lots of stuff coming out of fault Um, we haven't even covered patch 15.1 on for the minions, but they've already announced patch 15.2 and then um Probably we should knock this out real quick Uh, some kind of valentine's special announcement was made on their twitter It looked like a hub phases backpack was was used for that. Um, now Bearded, you know more of what you're allowed to say about this than I am We're both fault partners, but I completely missed my very first fault partner meeting Yeah Perfect, it's gonna be a uh valentine's day event. Um for you know valentine's coming up So it's it's you know when you're watching this it's gonna be happening very soon This comes out on friday It's probably happening either then or the saturday I don't know exactly the day it's happening, but there's gonna be a valentine's day event Um that's going on and what I will say is bring your friends That's about all I can say as of right now, but Stay tuned Make some friends if you don't have any I guess I'll be your friend All right then I'm sure I have lots of comments next week when I know what this is Have ideas now that you mentioned it but Uh, so patch 15.1, um A few things got changed. They they some fixes the thing now, which The one I asked for which is a decrease to the attack scaling To his shield a jelly I know you were like it was soon as you saw that it was like 100 of his attack power goes to his shield You were like what the actual? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah So do you think 85 was enough because it's now it's 85 instead of 100% Do you think that 15 drop was enough or should have been more? I think On all of the nerfs they played it very safe I think every single one probably should have been more drastic than it was um His q cooldown Okay, but it resets on kills so means nothing in the grand scheme Right, um his right click 85 is a good change. I don't think it's enough I think it probably should have gone down to closer to 70 If I was gonna be pretty hard about it and then maybe bring it back up Um, but the big one that I think is definitely definitely not enough Is his ultimate recast timer being lowered five seconds is nothing That means absolutely zero to me 15 seconds is still an eternity to recast an ability Yeah, that should have been halved At least Yeah, honestly between I would have said probably seven seconds put it at seven seconds That is a decent amount of time to recast in the same fight But you're not running from lane to lane with that and still having it up at the end of the day And I can run from a side lane to mid lane in 15 seconds, especially with his q So it it means nothing to me in the grand scheme that needed to be way more harsh Yeah, and with as hard as he hits it didn't take much to run to that other lane And if they if they're messing just on smidge of health hamstring auto attack. They're in execute range already. Yep And if you wind up with his shield beforehand and then you Teleport in and then it blows up on them even more then. Yeah, you set yourself up for his complete success These nerves effectively were nothing. Well, the only real danger there is they would probably die before you executed if you did If you'd write all of that Bearded, I know you're about as angry about thing now as I am Yeah, no, he's he's definitely strong. Um, I I like the changes though, uh because before When they made changes they would just like just overshoot drastically Then they have to bring it back and I would rather them take their time and find that balance It's like, all right, we're gonna move steps it all right So I like every change they've made I do agree especially with his ultimate five seconds Was that enough they should have halved it and then moved closer to that seven that you were saying jelly Um, but I mean the 15 percent uh on his shield. I I like it. Yeah, let's see where it's at Let's get the data points and then let's move it back down. Let you know towards that 70 that jelly was talking about Um, but everything else, uh again the the q You know it gets reset. I again these those those both the fact that he's got two abilities that reset on kills like you could literally Cue in on somebody kill them and then kill somebody with your ultimate And you now you can exit and get across lane like you were saying in that time And then also get on somebody else because you still have the time Like you could literally try like you might as well be calari with a global ultimate in a sense You know like yeah, I can get across there. Let's go And it's just too much. Uh, I I like the fact that like you may be getting Two Three kills with this ultimate if you're able to time it right and get everything going down that would be cool But the fact that he's like the you know We no offense, you know, I'll call him out great guy terry twister We were gaming with him and he almost had a penta like he was that Well, he had a quadra and then and then our boy met us took the penta from him And he but it's and he said he's like he's never had a penta before If you've never had a penta before play fang mal because he's guaranteed you'll you'll get a penta with like All you gotta do is understand how he plays you'll get a penta. It's gonna happen in a week guaranteed You know, I've never had a penta myself, but like I don't play fang mal So I just I guess if I really want to say I've had one I'll just play fang mal You know get a cheap easy one It needs to be changed so it's if you do get one that just because it was well played And I honestly I would rather they shift power away from His q and his right click and put it more into his e Because I think mangoes put it perfectly in this video that came out for fang mal the honest playing fang mal review today That is yes, it's an ability you could use it straight like you can do this. Yeah Yeah, absolutely for what was a bread and butter ability for fang mal in paragon It is effectively the worst ability of his kit in this iteration and that is terrible Uh, his q is more valuable. His right click is more valuable there's just No reason to max his e or use his e in a lot of scenarios And it needs more power and they should shift power away from other things into that It it applies a slow But he doesn't need to slow anybody his and it's in this bigger range. So it means nothing Like it's it's this weird ability and often using it will fuck up your like I'll I'll get stuck in the cast animation or I will be able to basic attack afterwards So it's like not even worth using The e a lot of times I remember when fang mal first came out. I was talking to windu on his stream And he was telling me he's like right click your max your right click first and I was like what? Why are you maxing your right click? And then I did it and I was like nope that makes perfect sense because he is useless So there's nothing there's no reason to max that first. Yeah. Yep It's yeah, it's it's odd I don't know. Yeah, he needs his fixes. I'm sure they'll come like like bearded said I do kind of like That they're taking baby steps with it not just Nerfing him into the ground to where he's useless. They're gonna like a controlled burn of his abilities a little bit, but um Yeah, I would have personally liked to have seen something a little bigger for as overpowered he is but I was surprised to see Just because the way they've worked in the past I was surprised to see that quick of a change to a new hero Usually a new hero takes like two weeks before we get They're out there for two weeks. So you've got to play them. You got to see what they're like and then You know, then they make those changes. Yeah, and I guess a little bit difference that they didn't do this time is before You know with a season pass if you had the season pass you would get that hero a week early And then the rest of the you know community would get that hero. So maybe that's why they had that two week process but I don't know. I was surprised to see that he got you know nerfed as quick as he did but I was okay with it. He got nerfed as quick as he did because I didn't even get to play him before I was I mean, I played him but before I was just watching like wouldn't you play? I'm like, yeah, he needs a nerf I just watch him like yeah, this is I'm like this needs a nerf like it's it should not be this easy to do a lot of these things Heroes like thing now are what make me glad that there aren't is no season pass anymore because people not having access to thing now for a week would have driven folks Fucking nuts. Yep, right 100 a hero that you almost absolutely have to have when your team to win right now Like even still even after these nerfs. What's that? He feels a lot like morguech did when she first came out in paragon. Yeah. Yeah where if you don't have morguech You just lose congrats Like it's he's so mandatory. It's ridiculous It only took like a week for them to drop the man increase the mana cost of a lot of her abilities just because she was Insane like epic never changed anybody within a week Morguech, she got that change pretty damn quick I think morguech and zinx were the two fastest changes I've ever seen Epic make zinx because she was underpowered more because she was overpowered. Yep But you go say what do you guys just I was what do you guys just thoughts on on fault when they're when they release their heroes and how Overpowered they are and who like I When I'm going with this is I think grucks was their best release hero Like wasn't overpowered was actually in a really good spot Maybe needed some tweaks, but like it wasn't over tuned and like literally like felt good Just you know had to find where he fit really well The other ones is like you come out and it's like what is this? You know like like phase came out really strong Uh morguech came out, you know decently strong Kalari was really strong, but the Kalari is more of like that people just need to learn how to play against her But she still was strong. You know Kalari's had the most nerves as any hero in fault. So like She was a little strong but I mean like people say people are all Obviously going to say that they do it to increase like the sale of skins and like all this stuff like that Bullshit like we don't If your game can't sell skins don't Fix that by introducing kits that are just way overpowered and Having people love that hero for two weeks until they get Nerfed into the ground Yeah, I don't think that's a I don't know why I don't know why their fault is releasing heroes in such Grossly over tuned states because they really are like phase was grossly over tuned like you like you mentioned and just I don't I don't I don't like it. I don't know why they're doing it. I would understand why epic did it Not really. I wouldn't understand I mean, I would get why they did it, but I still wouldn't like it. I like it even less with strange matter. It just it shows More that they just can't balance during testing than anything else And that's I completely agree with you man goose. I think that idea of overpowered champion or overpowered hero sell skins is Understandable why it exists in other MOBAs right 100% except fault doesn't sell skins Plain and simple fault doesn't sell skins. They don't come out with skins With these heroes that anybody's going I need to buy that right now, right, right? Not yet, and it was yeah, right. Yeah, most of the heroes come out are the epic asset skins And if somebody wants them the majority of fault players at this point have enough currency that they can just buy the skin Yep And so it means they're they're not doing it to sell skins or if they are they don't understand why it's not working Um, I don't I never heard the I mean I it makes sense But I I've always heard it as they're doing it to sell the hero You know because you don't have which not everybody has the heroes unlocked, right? Same thing. So you have to buy it though I mean they had a lot of the currency to get I get it You're right in that not even currency with that in mind hero marks exist Everyone is sitting on a stockpile of hero marks They're literally if they're trying to sell the hero then they're massively feeling at that too because everybody's got a stockpile of hero marks Right, um, that that was just a bug that wasn't meant to be the way it is That's the whole point of the hero marks that it was meant to change every other one or whatever But it just like oh like here you go. Here's your skin mark. Well, no, it was a hero mark. All right Here's your ward mark. Nope. That was a hero mark And you you get a hero mark and you get a hero mark and you get a hero mark But I mean it's a skin mark I'm only in like my 40s in terms of level in the game and I had almost 100 hero marks Now partly I had the season pass before so I didn't have to use any on the previous heroes So but I had over 100 hero marks and it cost 10 for fault for fang mal. I don't know what it was But it's such a minuscule amount that it didn't even phase me to be like, oh, yeah, bye like no big deal right Yeah, so the thing I agree man goose it shows a lack of balance and testing That they're just it seems like they're in testing just to make sure that the kits work and then they push them out Uh that concerns me further for iggy and scorch That if iggy and scorch are gonna come out They are going to be the either the most busted things on the planet Or absolutely useless and it's not going to be in between. You don't want them to be useless Like I would rather than be overpowered like fang mal than be a completely useless hero that nobody picks up I completely agree. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe they're just airing on the side of caution that way That's a possibility But there's no way fang mal they We talked about this before with when they added patch 14 They added those arrows to tell you which lane to go in right those arrows last 10 minutes There is no way someone didn't look at that and go that should be shorter Yeah Right and same thing with fang mal specifically There's no way somebody in testing didn't look at him and go 20 seconds on his ultimate reset is a little long And that see the arrows arrows lasting 10 minutes That's that's perfect time though actually because that's right when the everybody fs. So At that point, how do you how do you actually know it stops at 10 minutes? You've had a game go longer than that I mean that's that's I can't get a game last long at 10 minutes. I'm always getting f ones Oh my gosh No, I'm just too busy having to tell me to go to my red buff every game Constantly for the first 10 minutes Not even testing too though like you could just read his kit and know that it was going to be fucked Because you're like, okay, so the shield explodes now when it expires and 100 of my attack power buffs that shield. What? like You I mean even before you played him you saw that jelly and you were like wait, that doesn't seem right Yeah, yeah, it's not fucking right Yeah Yeah, it's it's kind of nuts to me like this. Okay So I think about this too with his ultimate on just on paper man goose his ultimate at max level is an 80 second cooldown Let's let it reset for one fourth of its cooldown Who what? Just give it a 60 second cooldown at that point right like just take that quarter off Don't have it reset and let it be 60 seconds. That's balance. No, you wouldn't do that So why does it have a 20 second reset timer? That's insane I don't know. Let's stop picking on old man male for a while I want to talk about their changes to favor they um So Fault if you don't know has the aspect system you choose an aspect of the Top of the game and then you can choose you get favor points throughout And you can choose what aspect to put your favor into And they changed it around so that now red used to give attack power now gives attack speed Um purple used to give uh physical penetration and now gives attack power, right? Yep. All right. Yes, and then um For whatever reason they made white aspect more powerful by increasing the amount of cdr You get from it which I love but was not necessary But I think it was You think so? I think it was I think I think supports need love Supports aren't getting the love that they need and and the getting that cooldown boost because like just For a support to get enough cdr You know, I mean if especially if you're not enough favor or whatever to add into it To get that cdr. You have to like you have to Prioritize raptors and if you're not getting raptors, you're not getting that cdr Or that the points that go to it. So I then ask you is that a white aspect problem or is that a support gold generation problem? Because why would but why would go with more with more gold to the supports they can afford their items to get that power So is it is it actually a white aspect problem? And I don't play support. I can't answer this question Right. I don't know what man goose. I hear you complain all the time about gold generation on support So I would defer to you on this one They actually fixed a lot of the gold generational supports with I didn't put it in the notes, but they did fix the starter items for support You got the the bangle which gives you extra gold drip and you can execute a minion for And it gives the amount of gold to both you and the carry And it heals and then you've got the other one the skystone that gives you gold drip and every time you um attack an enemy hero basically you get Um a stack of gold and it stacks up the you know as three stacks that you can consume Um, they made that upgrade automatically after you get a certain amount of gold and For me playing support after this patch after 15.1 feels a lot better Just because of that because you get increased gold drip after it upgrades So throughout the game and then my other thing. Yes gold Gold has been a problem in fault, but for the most part Aside from the armor issues like there needs to be Some like they need to figure out some way to give supports higher armor at lower level So you're not just getting melted trying to protect your adc but um for the most part in fault whenever I fail as a support it feels like I got outplayed not that I wasn't powerful enough It felt it feels like I have the tools I need to succeed And when I adult succeed it feels like it's because I didn't use my tools well Not that I didn't have the tools there with the only exception being Playing a tanky hero like ricketer or steel getting melted, which they have been slowly addressing that issue and making it a little bit better So if they're fixing the support items to auto upgrade and then by because of that you're getting more gold faster And that feels good. Is the white aspect change just a double buff and then in that case kind of To me and I only bring that up because if we're going so slowly on the fangmau side of things Why are we double buffing the supports at the same time right like why? We need to have the consistency of if we're going to buff something slowly bring it up to a good point Or if we're going to nerf something slowly bring it down or do drastic changes one way or the other Well, the white aspects only it went from 1.5 cdr per point per aspect point to two cdr. So it was a 0.5 increase Which is I mean it ends up being Substantial, but yeah, if you actually get a full game instead of f1s you can get 20 cdr out of that right like that Well, they made um the raptor now gives four Favor to the entire team Yep Which is good because the raptor raptor used to be not worth taking within the first like 10 minutes of the game Like it was more beneficial to just let the other team get raptors And push out and get all the gold from your lanes while they're Dicking around with the raptor pit and maybe get a kill on them one of them while they're low or something like that But like I think socap said it best Raptor it was only worth taking if it was completely free like yep If you knew for certain that nobody was going to come in and mess with you while you were taking that raptor That was the only time it was worth taking now. It's a little more worth taking because they increased that favor to four Yeah Yeah, you It's now it's a lot like prime in a sense that you need to get a pick and then go You know you it's because it's still not worth Dying over but you need to get that pick before you end up going in there You know it's not you don't want to go sit and pit You know and raptor pit and like wait for them to get there and then like all right I was gonna team fight going and then hope that you're able to get on top You know you literally you know if you have to rotate mid lane, you know get that pick mid lane and then go in You know that way, you know your team's not gonna wrote the other team's not gonna rotate on you That's the way you need to do it But you do need to prioritize it. I had a game last night. Uh, we lost we we we uh Because we went down five nothing on raptors My team wasn't rotating your raptors, you know, and I called it out a few times You know, I was trying to get over there a few times I died because I was trying to get over there with it, you know But it's like we need to get raptors So you can't uh, the enemy sparrow had 32 Favorite points to my you know 16 or something like that. No, I didn't think I had 16. I got 10 Yeah, I had 10 because you had 22 cdr on me Uh, sdr. Sorry 22, uh, wrong wrong favorite point, uh, 22 Uh, a tax speed on me and uh a sparrow with more tax speed Okay So yeah, it hurt um Let's move on from the favor to talk about adc rework. It wasn't really an adc rework. They redistributed The power level of adcs so that their scaling is better, but they start out smaller So they're less powerful early game more powerful late game which Adcs have been in a rough spot for a while But I think I still think this is a necessary change Like I think this is how adcs are supposed to be and I think this is one This is one of the few things where where fault I mean, it's not one of the few things There's a lot of things the fault has a leg up on with predecessor But this is probably the main one that I think that's going to stand out to people if they play both games Predecessor adc's early game will fucking destroy you Like three four hits and you're gone and that's stupid it like that That doesn't happen in any other moba You don't you never have an adc that that's that goddamn strong in the early game And it makes for uninteresting gameplay. I think whereas um Fault is kind of balancing it out to where you're not going to get absolutely destroyed if you make a mistake and step up too far Then yeah, the adc could still has that enough power to take you out But it's um, it's I think the the the redistribution of power was a was a good thing for fault for false adcs But I'm not an adc main. I'm a sport guy bearded. You're an adc main. What do you think about it? Uh, it was definitely needed. It was definitely needed. I mean you you say it was a buff late game And it it technically is but it's literally only 0.22 Damage, you know more than what you would normally have when I did all the math on it So all the adc's crossed the board got 0.22 more damage at level 18 But I think this is also Added to this is more of uh, what was it 15 and then 15 1 they've been making changes to uh try to Stop people from taking range off lane And this is one of those things like now Early on that range character is not going to be able to do as much damage to that uh melee character Uh, because I think there was also a change to the melee output too. Wasn't there in the in the same patch Or there was something done with melee. No, it was the starter items titan book and Titan's armor you get five more attack against That's what it was. That's what it was. Yep. Okay. Yeah, I'll start because even the adc starter items did that But it was only a versus Yeah, there was a change but yeah It was all because of range off lane and I do agree that it needed to happen because I hate seeing range off lane and I'm an adc main like I like Let me stay in my lane Too much for that off lane because that that was the thing that We've got the adc main, right? We've got mangers as a support main and then me who plays a lot of off lane Right that that is the most frustrating thing is you're playing gravestone and going into a murdoch And you're just going to lose that nine times out of ten And this applies a difference that there's actually a reasonable expectancy. It could go either way instead of just feeling really one sided I remembered bail armor The change to bail armor is also a change to help with that uh that off lane that range off lane because you're able to Melt your minions faster when you put that bail armor and then when you melt your minions faster Or the enemy minions faster your minions are going to be going against that You know it's going to be a lot harder to fight in a sea of minions. Yeah Uh Let's move on to so they've talked a little bit about patch 15.2 And they released two new map images, which I personally didn't see a lot of changes bearded notice. They very significant change Probably the most significant change But um jelly, uh, what what changes did you notice? Uh, I didn't yeah That's the same here. I was like honestly There's like some lily pads in the river now and like that to me that there is a river now Well, so yeah, that that is a big one right and I saw the water thing False been the driest game there is and now it's Uh in my head the river always existed. So I did notice it. Um I think it's a good thing to have right. They've got the water on both sides on the side lanes now and now they're connecting it through theoretically, um I think for this because they did such a massive map update in 14 They probably should have given of side by side of the actual Before and after yeah, that would be because if it was pre 14 to this 100 there's a difference. No question there post 14 Sure, yeah, like mangroves and I didn't notice anything bearded did Sure. Yeah, there's changes. I guess I don't know I think some of the grass is looking better. I think Uh, I think they're also making changes. I think what we're seeing here is better optimization Uh, you know with the with these pictures. I think that's the whole point of sending it out there But the biggest the biggest change that I seen and maybe there is more that I just didn't see I'm I'm maybe in the same boat with you guys when it comes to that But the biggest change is that fog wall for that elbow now You got a fog wall coming out there that that now you can hide back there And not be seen it makes ganks a little more easier Yeah, more century awards are needed in those elbows now for sure big fan of that change big fan I always try to run through there and then get seen and I'm like, oh well now I've got the awkward like run back That's what I'm saying It was definitely a jungler buff and a like a kind of a buff to the aggressor aspect that gives you A movement speed when running through fog walls What I want to see now though is people not getting not being used to having the movement speed coming around that corner And going straight under tower and then I can laugh Yep But yeah, I think it looks good like the river looks good. Um, I don't know. I just Look is there no water right now? Like I don't even notice that like there was water there for a little bit And now I guess it's gone and It's just a crackle. There's even water there for a little bit rock bed I think there's only water on those side things But not anything past that Oh, well, it'll be good. I see I'm really hoping like like you said bearded that this There's a lot of optimization coming with this because adding Water into your level can very easily screw your optimization And with our past track record, I I'm a little nervous about it right No, that's I mean, there's people in gen chat that were saying that's oh great. We're adding more things So that means optimization is going to be even worse now, you know, and it's like but I don't know I I I don't I've I've I sighed more on the Uh benefit of the doubt side of it like they they saw what they did with 14 They saw what happened like all right now if we're going to add any more It's all going to be with fixes as well, you know, and here we go, you know like with I mean, I hope I hope 15 too also brings that damn fix for that fucking dawn side inhibitor fucking Ledge that you get stuck in yes, you know that that way that's that needs to get fixed That's not just a quality of life. That's like literally almost game breaking when you're stuck there All right, sweet. I'm trying to get away like okay. I'm just dead When I saw this tweet like I held my tongue because I didn't want to be that guy But I was my immediate thought was cool pictures, bro Now fix that fucking ledge around around the inhibitors because it oh my god Is that frustrating when you get killed because you can't escape your own tower? Yeah And then you get you finally get over that you're like, oh, thank god head into the fountain and you get stuck Well the stairs is like oh god damn it Yep No, I agree There's a lot of little places on fault right now We're you got some weird little edges that catch you Like a little thing sticking out the bottom of the wall that you don't see But you get coddling and when in doubt man goose will find all of them. God damn right I will and then I will scream we've we've jokingly mentioned for ethereal We need to bring man goose in to test the new map Specifically so he can find all of those things to bump his knees on Wait, is no one else bumping their knees like I do in ethereal because you're god damn right I've got my knees all the time in ethereal People do but you're just the one that's the most vocal about it It makes me angry This is that guy that walks around a truck and then bangs the shit on the uh the hitch on the back That's why I got shins like a Muay Thai fighter That's why we're a good pair of angers. I've got jelly knees and you've got the shins of iron. So, you know, it'll be fine Let's go play some shallow in soccer All right, I think that's about it for fault let you guys had any uh anything else you wanted to try No, I'm excited to see what this weekend's about. Hell. Yeah cool beans I hope we get a cupid sparrow um Predecessor or not predecessor uh over prime. So we didn't have anything from over prime, which was kind of odd Uh, we did like in their streamers only chat. They did say hey guys hold tight We're going to have updates coming soon because people are freaking out because we didn't get an update this weekend which I think speaks Speaks better of them than anything else actually that we're actually surprised that we didn't get anything out of them like everybody else has definitely gone weeks or even months sometimes or Several months in pred's case without like any updates whatsoever This is the first time we haven't had anything from Over prime in quite a while and um a little sad, but it's okay, right? I'm fine. They take a week off. I don't care Like like when he says when we do the partner panel is he you know talk about being spoiled And I think that's a lot like that's what's happened with over prime in that regard Is like we've all been seeing there was like even the work in progress pictures, you know like here you go Here's work in progress. Just just a little something. Yeah, and like now we didn't even get that so like we're like almost spoiled What was that Pavlov's dogs, you know, like we're just like sitting there waiting, you know Like and then it's not happening like well, wait a minute. I was supposed to get a treat Why why didn't I get a treat? You know like what happened? Did I do something wrong? You know that am I fault for this? You know like So like that's that's kind of like what's going on All right How it works is it's a seesaw between predecessor and over prime. You can have one for one news from the other But you can't get them both, okay? You got to pick which one you want and that's all it is Did you say Neburi's bumblebee? Don't with with with your no with your crazy story go ahead Go ahead and tell the people what you came up with They're bearded with the community manager storyboard. Why don't you go ahead and tell them that? You can't even say it right now, can you? The community manager storyboard. All right. So Ryan read saw bumblebee with tiger stripes that stung Neburi and gave him jelly knees If you guys don't know who the community managers are that made zero sense whatsoever But he just said all of their names Okay, um So over prime just in general. Did you guys have anything you wanted to say about over prime? Excited to see what's next. Yeah, sorry. Yeah Yeah, I'm excited to see The the changes that they make I mean because we had the closed the club is closed beta testing You know and there's a lot of input and stuff of that So I'm excited to see what they come out with and the changes that they've made based off of the stats that they got from closed beta testing Yeah, and they did make an announcement last week and we covered it last week about how The stuff that they learned that they are going to be working on which is nice to see Yeah All right, is that it for over prime? We're gonna move along to the poll and all the poll results. Yeah So what happened with the poll was um, the numbers were the votes were tally We're going in correctly, but they weren't being displayed properly Which for some reason put fault way ahead and I don't want to disparage fault But you don't go from like 11 percent to fucking 52 percent in one week So I knew that there was a problem with the poll Uh mono worked on it and uh, he discovered the problem. He also I think fixed the problem with people not being able to vote on their phones But the poll for this week, um That's the other thing this really drove people out in droves to to vote Is 569 votes Um predecessor with 52 of the vote over prime with 21 Fault with 11 and ethereal with 16. So That is the official poll for this week. I know a lot of people were We're losing their minds like what the hell is going on where Where if you if you know this because I didn't see it where was over prime before the closed beta testing compared to predecessor Uh, we're about 18 they hovered between like 18 and 20 percent on average sometimes like nine percent Like they started out really low and then as they started releasing more information. They've slowly gained ground I was surprised in that case. I'm surprised to see that they stayed as where they're at Just because of the difference of what over prime is compared to the rest of these the other four Uh, other three, sorry MOBAs Um, I just feel like with the other three being more of that MOBA style and over prime kind of having it's a MOBA Arena, you know, but it's more of a broader style speed, you know, what's going on and you know the you know Death's mobile situation you got going on. Uh, it's quite different, you know, and that's kind of where they're going for I understand it Maybe a little change is going to be you know making not as bad with that But I was surprised to see them with us being a MOBA community. I was surprised to see that they stayed as uh Popular what's yeah popular. There you go. Good word. I think the thing is What's keeping over prime really in it is their work and proof towards console release towards that ps5 because true at the end of the day There are a lot of people that care about how the game plays There are a lot of people that care about this and that But a vast majority of the paragon player base doesn't give a shit They want something on console that has the old paragon heroes and a map that's similar They could give a shit less about gameplay loop and animations and In appearance and the item system all that shit They want their old heroes and they want to play them with a controller on a goddamn console. That's what they want So and are you surprised Are you surprised to see that their votes didn't go higher with their names? How good they are with names? Oh I think that's what is keeping them below If they would rename their heroes they can they can skyrocket above pred, but they're everybody's like scott Kayla, yeah That one can stay that one that one's fine. So I understand their name change that what they're doing You know, I get what what's going on because you what this was like a netflix You know a short series or whatever that's supposed to be happening but I just We all it's literally the characters. We know we played We we've all played and you can play them predecessor as that same same name character You can play them in fault as that same name character And then you have if you want to play over from you literally it's gonna be a different name character But the same character like it just like it it just really throws you off. It's like no Like it's kind of like what no, this is this is steel You know, that's not scott. There's another aspect of it that I don't think we've talked about is the searchability Right because if you've got the benefits And maybe this is why overprime is doing it because they're Arguably one of the bigger of the three paragon successors. Yeah, is that if somebody types in Polari build Right, there is the potential that predecessor shows up fault shows up and overprime shows up So you've got inherent searchability in your game If somebody's looking for predecessor that it could show fault could show up And so fault is now potentially getting a new player because of that Right, right and so there's but that's a double-edged sword if your Fault player is looking up a Polari build and predecessor comes up Your fault player may jump to predecessor at the same time because they've now learned about this other game That has the same character yada yada yada So it's a double-edged sword for overprime to change the names because they lose that searchability But they also gain unique searchability that the others can't capitalize on by the same token Do they really lose that searchability though? Because myself and I think every other content creator I know Whenever you're putting a title in there, it's like You don't just put scott You put scott and quotation marks in steel gameplay, you know what I think Right now you're doing that because the community that's where the community is at But let's say three years down the line when over prime has been out for a while and this name is now Here this is the name now and everybody that's what everybody knows because if you go three years down the line If you go in there and you you know get on combos with somebody All right, i'm picking steel and that person doesn't even know what paragon even is they're like Who's hold up is that is that a new hero? Is there who's steel? You know, oh, sorry scott, you know, then you're gonna, you know, that's where that name's gonna You're gonna take that Also known as off. It's no longer be also known as it's just gonna be scott And with their ign trailer hitting as big as it did There certainly have players that played the open weekend that did not play paragon Right, that same thing of you putting in they'll look up scott build and they'll be like, what's who's steel? What is this? Why is this why is steel in this title? Right, and so it's it's like I said, it's that double-edged sword of both things you lose the search ability But you also gain unique search ability at the same time, right? All right, uh, I think that's about it for the poll you guys ready to get to the discussion topic Let's do i'm ready. Let me refresh my coffee. I will be right back All right, so for this week's topic for discussion One of the things one of the things that when people first find out they're like, oh, shit There's like uh somebody's recreating paragon and they're like, oh wait somebody else is too. Oh, somebody else is too What what's this a third real thing? That's a third. What the fuck? They always say like, why don't they just all combine And in pull their talents to make one great game, which We all know is never ever going to happen But we're going to play some some make believe here a little pretend times And uh, we're going to kind of cherry pick features from each game that we would like to see Uh combined into one massive product Which would be uh, quite cool. I think it's going to be a little interesting to see what we would want for material Just so out there and different. It's not a pair zombie at all. It's like its own goddamn thing But um, yeah, I think this would be an interesting exercise Nonetheless, uh, would anybody would anybody like to go first? Does anybody have one in a feature in mind? I'll go first 100% Uh, here we go. I think and we talked about it with malware. I think ethereals character designs are Something that I would pull and put into another one of these games If I was combining them right having not not just like the risk reward ability or the class abilities But the unique basic attack potential like something like malware's I totally agree and um, like having the ability to fly having the The ability to destroy parts of the environment or scale walls and that could be Placed into the paragon heroes as well. You could import The ethereal heroes have them with the paragon heroes, but like like calari give her the the the ability to scale walls You know give muriel the actual ability to fly around and shield people and and that sort of thing Um, could you imagine grucks busting through a rock and then landing a pole? That would be fucking amazing But yes, I'm amazing too So, um, I mean that goes with what I said with ethereal I wanted the ambition You know ethereals ambition, you know, and that really ties in with what the the flying the climbing You know the busting through the rocks that literally fits in with their ambition that I want ethereals ambition With my what I like to call a peristine What nope peristine franken frankenstein. Oh, it's a paragon. It's a peristine. Not a perisombie Frankenstein was the scientist But it's I'm Parastines monster. Thank you. I'm sorry Pick any halloween costume if anybody has frankenstein's monster and you're going as frankenstein Um Yeah, I think ethereals ambition Definitely needs to be seen in some of these games over prime is pulling it off a little bit But they all say that they want to be they want to be different from paragon. They want to fix what went wrong Blah blah blah they don't but they don't put their money where their mouth is they need to but they don't put their money Where their mouth is except well over prime does a little bit but Nowhere nobody comes near so much money. They kind of just goes where their mouth is It's kind of like piled up to here like I don't okay. Can you see me? I'm trying to talk to you They're not over prime is putting their fixes where they're where their mouth is I guess Um, but like ethereal is just so out there and so different and so crazy And uh, I mean that's why they're not they're not beholden to the structure of paragon because they're not a para zombie which is Been amazing to see Right. Yeah, if anything the three para zombies are all different points of paragon's existence that they all just took and ran with Uh, I think something I would definitely pull from over prime though. I guess two things now that I think about it They're Wait, like the weight of when you cast things when you do things basic attacks Abilities whatever it is. It just feels impactful And I think that's something that all of the other games are missing right now Is that weight behind it and then also their skin design team? I would literally import to any of these companies in a heartbeat In a heartbeat the skins are is what I put I mean that the the skin designs that they have are insane You know able to see those on the clothes beta testing was crazy that cyber rock skin. Oh my gosh Oh good Demorius, thank you and the whole like from concept to actual finished product too like The concepts are just super cool And then they actually turned them into reality and and oh man. Yeah, their skin team is great What I would pick from over prime though This is gonna be a little controversial. I loved absolutely loved having all of my abilities right off the rip You know except for the ultimate of course I love that I've always wondered why mobas don't do that I always wonder why they make you choose which ability to level up and just It makes just a pain in the ass at the beginning It doesn't really provide that much of a tactical advantage The only advantage it provides is if you hold which ability until you know whether you're getting going to get ganked or not So as soon as you get ganked you unlock your movement ability and then move out but And it's kind of a double-edged sword because yeah, it did encourage junglers to gank a little earlier than normal But it also gave The people in lane the tools they needed to defeat that gank a little better So I just thought that was an overall overall cool change to just to dispense with this whole Having to unlock abilities and just go straight into leveling up which one you think is going to be the most beneficial Yeah, how how introduced do you want to get because I I kind of want to ask you that question Like it it fits over prime in their speed and how fast they want the game to go But if you take it put that into a predecessor or ethereal or even fault and the games they want the game to last longer By doing what you're saying you're like that's not going to help that game last longer. So how would you change that? so I actually Have an idea for that that I thought of wall man goose was talking about it. Okay is You go a step further which sounds weird to combat the issue of having them all right, but you go a step further in that you completely remove the aspect of leveling your abilities You start out with your core abilities and at whatever level you want to unlock the ultimate that automatically unlocked So it just happens But every then however many levels you have in your game you extend the each ability levels up At the same time just gradually over each level of your character. So it scales So yeah, so you make them scaling just attached to your character level instead of ability level necessarily And that would help slow down the game because they're not scaling as hard as fast while allowing you to also still keep that feeling of Unlocking your abilities early and often And getting that going forward But wouldn't you actually wouldn't that Actually in turn scale your abilities faster because technically when I level up is when I'm able to then level up my ability But I'm only able to level up one ability Now all my abilities are leveling up Yes, but because it's over a longer period The the power level is not nearly as strong at the same points Okay, because instead of doing it instead of doing every level You're getting it. I have okay. And so let's say each level of your q gives a hundred damage Right if you have four levels of your q that's an extra 400 Over the first four levels of the game if you stack them all straight in Right, but over 20 levels That is only 20 damage whatever it is Right over the entirety of the game. So it will slow down that power. So no one ability becomes You can't just stack all of your power into one ability and do 600 damage off the cuff At level five because you upgraded that ability first So it does it does stretch it out just a hair in that regard Okay, so I I still liked having the decision point of Putting levels into abilities and leveling up abilities. I just liked having them all unlocked off the rip But yeah, that that would be my takeaway from over prime aside from the skins I think that's the fucking obvious one from over prime is the The skins and the skin design Uh predecessor what I would take for predecessor is their attention to detail Like they have Recreated that paragon experience so well with their field of view and the way everything looks feels and plays And just like the the zoom out whenever you're casting an ability like they nailed it like Smokey especially Work with the community to make predecessor at least feel as much like paragon as possible and It's that incredible attention to detail is what is putting predecessor Above the others as far as popularity. Maybe not in gameplay because we don't know we haven't been able to play it but In popularity predecessor definitely has the lead over everybody else and I think it is that it's that detail What would you guys take from pred? Mine was Similar to yours. It's just the smoothest how the game feels Literally like you you cast an ability. It's there. You you're just running around the map You just everything feels smooth everything looks smooth, you know, it's it's great That's that's what I want from them is this the smoothness that they were able to put into a game Yeah, I would completely agree. I think Predecessor hits all those nostalgia buttons for me, right? Like it's it's one of those things and that's not like a necessarily just because I miss paragon But it's just a feel like it just feels good to play like paragon did and that's why it hits those things those points for me And so I think the definitely the feeling Overall of predecessor is definitely something to take What about fault? What would you guys take from fault? favor system Oh Okay, that that that was mine the aspect of the system a hundred percent. Oh Oh, I'll turn your mind around. I'm gonna blow you're gonna No, I mean their favorite system right now like it's They're change making changes to it because but the idea of it behind it and and where they're gonna be with it I I like their favorite system and especially, you know, sylphan even came out and said that the the the goal is to have it be Hero-based like you know, like your your favor is gonna be different on based on whatever hero you have Like it's gonna change and that's gonna be, you know, that's gonna feel nice as well I'm excited to see what they do with that. But yeah, their favorite system I like what they do with it Because it makes for me. I'm all about I've always been a team player game like a team Game team player in games and I don't go out and play God of war, you know, I'm not a solo player guy I've always so the fact that the favorite system is literally putting points in team Objectives, you know makes the game play You know, you can't just go in there and just run down solo lane because you want to be solo Like it literally for you to win the game You guys got to play as a team you guys got to get the team objectives You got to get prime you got to do this and the points that you get for the benefits you get for I really enjoy the favorite system all right and My reason for liking the aspect and favorite system is it gives you adaptive customization the same way that Paragon's cards did like I was thinking a lot about this today One the main reason I loved the card system in Paragon was because you took an end item card And then you adapted what stats you slotted into that card Like I think it was thorned green weave would give you I think energy armor But you could put energy power health or energy armor into that card. So that card Could give you any of those stats and depending on the game like I had it set up with five different cards for that one Which you know, they only had three slots, but If I was getting Beat up and I needed that extra health or that extra armor That's what I would put into my thorned green weave if I was ahead I could put that like I was just was barely just away from finishing people off I could put that power into the thorned green weave and it was adaptable like that And that's the way that you can use the aspect system in fall I don't think it's the way a lot of people do use it, but I think a great example Yeah, I've been playing more guess a lot trying to Learn how to play her really well in fall and I take um beast master, which is a green aspect um I think is a really great one to take on pretty much anybody and then I take um Another card another uh aspect from the blue, which is queen But anyway queen if you put points into that you get uh, was it energy pen? The energy pen and energy power energy power. Yeah For putting points in the blue, but if you point put points in the green you get health I kind of discovered this by accident. I was accidentally putting points into my green aspect But I was in this game I was up against the countess and it proved to be the difference Between just getting deleted by a countess or surviving the countess and deleting her Because I had that extra health that I had put in now if it was a different game And I was up against somebody that's not going to melt you and me like countess I could instead take those favorite points put into that blue aspect have more power so I could deal more damage So it's kind of the aspects offer you that unique customization that you got from the paragon card system Just without the paragon card system It is a little dependent on your team and how your team plays but you do get favor of your own by um You know just completing tasks tasks within the game getting a certain amount of minion kills or hero kills or what have you so right And and do you even add on to yours real quick? Sorry jelly is the um Is that situation like you are in early game? Let's say early game you're getting melted by the countess So you put it the your points into your you're a beast hunter, you know and then you you get health from there But then later on your team starts, you know scaling and you guys start winning team fights So then now you because of that you can now you got ahead of the uh The countess so now you can start putting points into your power And you can start doing power to help your team more late game as well So you can kind of make that adjustment mid game, you know because of however the game's playing or vice versa Maybe you were winning early game in about now Also, and she's she got fed from whatever and now you need to start getting health So you can start putting points into health kind of help you, you know, make that change into late game as well Jolly, what do you gotta say? Uh, I first first. What do you want to take from fault before you argue against all of this? Because you have yet to say what you're doing that lightly because if I go into that it'll be a whole thing um I think the aspect system By itself is a very good thing. It's it's the summoner spell. It's the familiar Primary spell a concept But in a much more succinct format that everybody has access to and it benefits people in different ways That being the initial aspect you pick at the beginning of the game favor system I completely disagree on but that's a whole other topic um From what I would take from fault is their home screen Since patch 14 is one of the best I've ever seen Honestly In and I mean that in the when you go into game and the portal opens up and you go into the portal All okay You're in when you're in hero select and you're heroes there and it zooms out and then goes you go through the doors onto the map Like those aspects of it are so nice. It's ridiculous. Like like when patch 14 came out I was blown away by that because that was something I felt like I've never seen before In a MOBA where it felt connected. It felt like everything I was doing Was all part of the one conglomeration That I've never felt before in another game. So I think that would by far be what I would take from there From fault In addition, right if we're combining the games fault is the only one with permanent uptime So I'm gonna scooch that in there as well You know with that home screen though with one thing that I want them to do and I think would be better is uh You know a lot like uh paladins right when you pick your when you pick your team on paladins You get like you're you see your your team the actual characters of the whoever they pick like all right You know man, you may just pick steel and and you pick rucks, you know, and then I got my guy front and center, right? um And then show that and then do that zoom out and you see all five of your team sitting there and then go Then have the camera, you know shoot through that door You know just because I just show I think that'd be you know Then instead of just being your character and only you there Showed the whole team there and then you guys it's almost like you guys are going to war like here. We go. Let's go Yeah, emphasizing that teamwork aspect of it in a very subtle nice way. I completely agree You're the kind of guy that you hand you a cookie and you're like, where's the chocolate chips? I'm just kidding. I hate sugar cookies. They give me a chocolate. I'd rather have a chocolate I'm cooking like that that is a cool aspect of fault Now I think that speaks a lot to or towards fox false progress that they're able to add Nice to have shit into their game as opposed to only having to add need to have shit because everybody else is on a They need to add this For the game to be good, you know Fault they've got most of their everything's in there like they need to tweak it balance it and and work with it And play with it a little bit But like they're in a in a position where they can, you know Spend a little bit of time on some of the quality of life improvement nice to have stuff like that home screen Something else I would pull from fault actually now that I'm thinking about it Is cast settings because they're the only game with actual cast settings across the board. Yeah, true And that is a huge thing for me because I smart cast everything or instant cast everything And so pred doesn't have that at all drives me up a wall Overprime had that intermittently ethereal has it intermittently Right, and so I want it all or nothing. Give me the settings. Please god I don't have the IQ for smart cast. So I gotta keep it on standard You dumb cast this guy this guy. I even smart cast on giddy and like Seems super dumb to have like his brock on smart cast where you just don't get a targeting reticle at all But it's a lot like gadgets seek and destroy it always goes where you want it to I don't know why But if you like I miss so many rocks when I have that reticle If I don't have the reticle and I just cast where I think it's gonna go It almost always hits where I want it to does it always hit the hero? No, but it always hits where I wanted it to I thought it was going to hit the hero You know what? I need I need AI cast settings So then on murdoch's ult I can put on AI cast and just every else is perfect There you go And as soon as anybody comes anywhere near you you immediately spin push them away and then go right back to where you were doing Right fucking AI murdoch, man Here's a question if you could pull from just any other game Out there an aspect from any game and and include it in your I don't want to call it a paris dying because it sounds like palestine for some reason I don't want people to think we're talking about israel and palestine This is that kind of podcast we're talking about fucking video games here not world peace But you're you're you're you're frankenstein to paris zombie whatever the fuck you want to call it What is there any aspect from any other game that you would pull in? I obviously just thought of one and that's why I'm putting this out here right now So if you want me to go first, I can't but if you if you have one Yeah, go ahead and go first. Maybe I'll give me a moment to think Mine I pull as I always do from here's the storm Here's the storm Your experience well, it's actually they don't have gold. So all of your Economy comes from the same place. But anyway, I think it's it's shared experience Like everybody shares the experience from a minion that's killed It doesn't matter if you're on this side of the map that side of the map if you're a guy over here It kills a minion you get the experience down here The entire team stays the same level and gets the same amount of experience I would like to see that but I would like to see gold stay the way it is so that you can have somebody That you can feed into and give better items and and such But see the thing that why that is good and here's the storm is Everybody has to go to a lane Like you can do like a coordinated gank right off the bat But you're going to lose experience for your entire team Every time you leave you you leave your lane and every time a minion dies and you're not around You're losing experience for your entire team. So it's a built-in mechanic to prevent death balling So I really like that and and here's the storm I'd like to see that brought into paragon, but I would still like to see the gold say the the way it is because you have you do need to have some way To to boost certain characters over another that's like just an essential Sort of MOBA thing But yeah, I think experience should be shared just across the board to keep people From keep people in there in their fucking lanes during the laning phase and make it more meaning your lane brah Make make every minion wave a little more meaningful to the entire team And that would make like raptor a meaningful objective because you're giving up all that experience to take raptor It'd be better. We goddamn be worth it Yeah, I mean I like the idea. I mean I I didn't when you first said it. I'm like, uh, whoa, what? No, I don't want like um, but I mean, I'm all about, you know stopping the death ball You know meta that goes on so anything to help that out. I'm I'm definitely okay with that Yeah, and I think mangas with that you solved one of my biggest gripes with that system is the kind of uh The quality aspect across the board of it is there's no There's no becoming like the character for your team because You're all together, right? And so even if you're dominating you your whole team is equally Creeping up there. You're not necessarily crazy strong over anyone else on your team And that to me feels bad because I doing all the work you should feel rewarded for that And it to me, that's my biggest issue with Heroes of the Storm is That is less prevalent Um, but if you have gold separated from that and actually do gold that way you can keep it With then you have an item system where you can feel that strength, but your team is still Cooperatively helping each other at the same time. So I think that's a great aspect to Add in there Yeah, it'd be interesting to see I think Uh the one that I thought of as you started that and it's kind of cheating to an extent because it's from paragon um Is their original card system minus the loot box Minus the loot box and that's Adding in that you can come into the game with a bunch of preset decks For your hero and say this game. I want to go like a tanky bruiser build or this game I want to go glass cannon or this game I want to do whatever and have your own your own item shop to choose from because the the Rock paper scissors aspect of that for your across your team and across the enemy team Adds another layer of complexity and fun at least for me to look at and be like, oh, they took this card that game Okay, so now I should think about taking this card from my deck Accordingly to match up against that or to counter that or whatever it is The downside of that system in paragon was the loot boxes to get the cards and the balance of those cards was terrible um There were definitively cards if you didn't have this card you just lost congrats And that felt terrible. So a balancing of it, but that kind of Custom item shop. I think is a really cool aspect that hasn't been done successfully Yeah, I give that two thumbs up bring back the paragon card system. I loved it I mean, I I think I mean I only because I've heard them talk about I don't know about the other ones I haven't talked to them about but like I think false. They're they're a Overall in the future plan is to be able to just literally create you out of the item Every item they have in the shop You can just kind of take and make your own little pool that way you just know like you don't have to Sick their insightful through so all right I'm gonna go through all these because I don't I only want like for me right now any adc I pick the bubble gun or fates gunblade is not Hey, this is a recommended item It is so you have to literally go through and find it or you get to type it up, you know So like If I could just like all right, here's all the ones. These are the items I use You know, I could just all right put these all in a pool. All right Here's all my my recommended and this is the ones I'm gonna use and I just pick from there kind of just Sort through that I think that plan of doing that But I I couldn't even with the youtube both bringing something up. I can't I don't know I don't like I said, I don't play many games. I I play fault, you know, or you already brought yours in you to You said paladins. Everybody's lined up They go that that's yeah, there you go. There you go. That's yep. Thanks. You're welcome bearded. I'm here for you And to think I thought I was coming here for you I don't know. I think I think the uh Like having an item like you were talking about bearded like that's pretty standard from obis like being able to Have your own build of items that you go in you can still go outside that building by whatever you want but Yeah, I mean that's just not The way paragon was like you had to make decisions when building a deck and make sure that your deck equal to exactly 60 card points or else you were going in with like a 59 max deck and you were missing out on One card point which I did a few times, but um I I'm actually one of the minorities I'm one of the minorities. I but it's because when I went into paragon I was literally had no clue what a mobile was didn't know what I was getting into And I got into it just before they actually went to the three card system And I was I had no clue what I was doing. I have all these slots. I'm like, I don't know what this like I I'll buy this and I'll buy I don't know. I'm just like go to lane and shoot people I'm hoping I'm gonna win, you know, but then when he came to the three card system. I was like, okay Put this card here. This guy. This is my early game. This is my mid game This is my late game and I had three early three mid three late and I was able to just go All right, go get you know, get as much as I can upgrade as the next card Get as much as I can upgrade the next card That was it was easy for me to focus on learning everything else about the MOBA And I didn't have to worry about the items. I understand now You know that that's not a good thing, you know, but I liked it You know for somebody that's trying to learn the game and understand what's going on There's definitely the aspect of it being new player friendly and their original card system was not by any stretch of the imagination And their second version of it was definitely way more new player friendly You to use the original card system You kind of had to know how to play both on MOBA and a tcg Yep Because the building the deck was very much like a trading card game You pick this thing and this thing and this thing and you pick this thing as a counter And you put this on the bench. It's like building a magic at the gathering deck. That's what I fucking loved about it But yeah, that's what confused the shit out of a lot of people and uh, whatever Whatever It will be missed. I don't think I would like that because The little bit that I did play, you know, I did play like a couple of games with my sister's ex-boyfriend back in, you know 1980 um, you know Uh Magic the gathering, you know, I played a couple and I The little bit I learned of it. I'm like, oh, this is pretty interesting But it's a very expensive hobby that I just couldn't see myself buying You know to get into because then you like once you start getting into it ask easy ed You know, he's got into that bit pokemon thing like he's got so much money into that. No, thank you I don't want I don't want to do that board crack Yeah, I'm like, no, but I mean I I am interested in it. I could oh I could definitely do that But that looks fun, you know, but Not I don't want to pay the mic for it I don't know guys, um Take what we've said and pick which one of us Had the best pair of zombie frankenstein. I think put put it down in the comments below Was it bearded? Was it jelly? Was it I I think we all had pretty much about the same thing Just a few little tweaks here and there Yep, I think the the best part of any pair pair of Frankenstein right now would be would be false constant uptime as jelly said. Yeah Yes Of course the most important feature let's stick that on any of them So are we all gonna get together on unreal engine and just make our own game now? Yeah. Yeah, we're That's the announcement right now. There's a fourth pair of zombie being produced by jelly bearded and I And we're gonna take the world by storm Fuck this fractured player base. We're gonna fracture it even further We're gonna cut everybody else's legs out from under him. We're gonna make our own goddamn game You'll see and it'll be better than everybody else's Yep Should we just join one of the other teams? Hell no new companies We're gonna call it failure hard to get our name our game game's name. It's going to be called failure No, I think we go back back to crunch punch the kong dong and that is the name of the game That would have been a great game. Why didn't I make that game? I still think we could do it I mean, I made the whole thing where he walked up and punched the the kong dong. Um, you know, you know I got some skills Just saying All right That's about all I had to say on the topic unless you guys had anything else. Nope. That's it. Yeah All right. Well, then, uh, let's go to plugs bearded. What do you got the plug, buddy? my stream uh twitch.tv Slash the bearded wolverine and also youtube, uh, which is also you can find me the bearded wolverine We need to get him to a hundred subs so he can make his own name on there It's not just a crazy url And I can actually go at the bearded wolverine in a youtube video and it notifies him that I made a video Making fun of him and him in window Yes, let's get him. Let's get him there guys Let's head over to the bearded wolverine channel. It'll be linked in the description below and in the uh The pinned comment below and go go drop him a sub. Please Please and thank you. Oh and for the tiktokers I also have a tiktok that I will be putting like my clips on as well Man don't like this shit about tiktok jelly. What do you? You say that I literally told you my numbers like my my numbers on tiktok are like make youtube put the shame That's cuz you keep showing your titties I'm allowed Mangoes that's tiktok. That's different. I just picture a beard spreading his beard Really really Before we completely lose our minds you guys take the plug Uh, switch that tv flash jelly knees and I'm also gonna start a go fund me for our new studio. So please give us money I'll make sure I'll make sure it all gets where it's supposed to go. Okay. Don't worry about it The donation button will work if nothing else does Hit me at ww.dot eventail uh, so Yeah, I got nothing to plug as usual. I hope you guys are if you guys enjoyed the show It's a phone when it's always good to have live streaming on youtube Plug it. Yeah, if people are watching my this this right now, they don't really see know that at my youtube channel live streaming twice Mangoes live streams on youtube now where he learns more against badly. So if you really want to watch that You absolutely can go subscribe do the like do the comments I'll play the bell three games. Well, I'll play three games on stream and I want two of them. That's pretty goddamn good for me You're saying it wasn't that you didn't know you were still alive. Oh, yeah, right What's that? I think you're saying a 66 win rate is passing because my high school would disagree with you Well, I went to high school in west virginia and that was uh, fucking flying colors All right, so That's going to wrap it up for this week. I hope you guys enjoyed the show. It's certainly fun Always good to have bearded on here. There's always some crazy shit that goes on Again, let us know who's frankenstein. You like the best even though I think they were about all All the same that are all big green with uh bolts coming out of their neck, but uh Yeah, that is going to close it out for this week and uh See y'all guys next week and I'll see you guys in the comments And if you're watching this live or during the premiere, thanks for coming out if you're watching it as a video still Thank you for watching before now. Bye food I forget every time man Goose Special shout out to channel members foolish blood hunter jelly needs me. I'll mix for men stunt farith and raven