 Welcome back. It's my hope that you're enjoying this incredible story and, as promised and as usual, we have our expert of the day and we have no other but our amazing Kansili psychologist Mr. Julius Karibusana. Thank you. Kindly introduce yourself to the people. Thank you. Yes. My name is Julius Getare. Yes. I work as a training manager at Kenya Session of Professional Cancer. Wow. Great. It's always an honor to have you take your time and, you know, come talk to us and teach the parents at home a thing or two. Because as I keep saying, on the nest we are saying, hey, problems are there and this is how to tackle them so that we can make better decisions moving forward. Sure. Yes. I think you had a Kobiya story and basically we are addressing the issue of postpartum depression. Yes. As an expert, could you kindly just unpack for us what postpartum depression is and how it looks like? Thank you, Maureen, for this opportunity to be here. And maybe it's a very, very unique month. Yes. Because it's also a month of mental health wellness. Absolutely. And this also has a lot to do even with the issue about the postpartum depression as it becomes about. Yes. Yes. Because these depressions come in seasons. True. So when we talk about the mental health demand, we are also recurring that we have got seasons of the year. Very true. When people get depressed, another season when now they overcome that depression because of the changing weather conditions. Yes. Right now the period where we are is the climax of the depression levels because of the forces of the moon and the sea, the sea waves and the moon. Now because of the lunar eclipse, now our mind gets more disturbed in running of the other. And as a result now it causes a lot of depression. I see. So being a month of mental health is an area where we also need to understand the three key links before now we go to depression. Yes. But something very important I would like us to capture is to help people to know that we talk about mental awareness. Yes. Because many organizations, many institutions will invite you to go and talk about mental awareness. Yes. Mental illness has got nothing to do with the mindiness or depression we are talking about. Right. When you are mentally well or you are mentally healthy it means you are super functioning. Okay. There is no trace of any challenge in you. I see. But now because of the normal stress levels that come because of the daily hassles, now we enter state of mental ill health. Okay. So when you cannot gritty me in the morning and with the same organization, you are not mentally, you are not a mad person. Okay. You are not a mental ill health because of that stress that might have come your way. Absolutely, absolutely. Maybe the tout refuse to give you the change in the matter too. Yes. That can be a reason. I see. So you are not a mad person. Okay. But you are not okay still. You are not okay because there is a stress that has come your way. Right. Now when we talk about mental awareness. Yes. Now we are saying this individual, we don't need to put you at the place of work. Yes. We don't need to support, to allow you to be a family person. Yes. We don't allow you to socialize with people because you are a digit yourself, you are also a digit others. Yes. Therefore you are a psychiatrist material. Uh huh. You need to be in a mental health facility, a hospital. Right. To be taken care of for the person of medical management. Uh huh. So, mental awareness. Man needs to prepare people not to know. Yes. What might be happening because of the runa eclipse of the moon. Yes. And the cities and the moon in that push has got a direct correlation with our brain functioning. Wow. Or mental awareness. Okay. Yes. Are you learning as I am? Yes. Yeah, me neither. Yes. In fact I didn't even, it didn't occur to me to ask you why the month of May. Yes. Thank you. Yes. For debunking that for us. And then again also remember many ladies who get pregnant in December. Uh huh. The first, the first trimester is over by the end of March. Oh yes. As we enter the cold season. Yes. Now those morning sickness now starts because of the sexual differentiation. Oh okay. There. So they come across, they meet now in the cold weather. Right. Things change. Things change. It is true by the way. Okay. It's not an exam. It's something else going on. It's something else happening. Okay. Yeah. So it's not about the exam. Now that we are setting our semester one in July. Yes. Are they going to burn their schools? I know. I don't think so. They will burn because they are managed. Oh they will burn. Oh yeah. They are still sick. True, true, true. Yes. Okay. So did you have a connection? A connection, a very strong connection. No it makes sense because for me, for me I thought it was the shift in the weather. Remember we get like in Kenya or the... Can just along the equator. The weather changes from the January heat to in April. That's when you get our first rain. And I remember when the first rain comes, I can recall years whereby I slip into this mood and I'm like, I'm just depressed. It may be it's not consistent but usually it's like a day or two. Yes. Until you get used to the weather. Until you get used to the rains. And I have friends who live abroad and it's the same thing when it falls. Correct. When the weather starts shifting then they also slip into some form of depression. And I'm happy that you've been able to identify that for us. Yes. Thank you, thank you. Correct. Right. Now let's go now to... Post-handsome, yes. ...dipression. Yes. Now post-handsome depression, there is also, I mean, a mindset of thinking that it is only a case for women. Right. Yes, so actually post-handsome depression, it is thumb. And depression is a mood disorder. Yes, yes, yes. It's a mood disorder. And this mood is coming after a mother had been expected. Right. She has taken, she has gone through the nine period of nurturing the child in the storm. Yes. Right. So many times post-handsome depression will come three months after delivery. It will come three months after delivery. Okay. And this post-handsome depression, one of the major causes, the situation that the mother has been going through during pregnancy has there been a good relationship between the wife and the spouse. I see. Or is this the... Is it because life has been rather like very common challenges? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And so many youth became pregnant. True, true. As this mother has been having some medical conditions within ourselves. Right. So there are so many factors that can take care of it. Then the issue about, of course, the mono-imparances in the day. Yes, yes, yes. The issue to do with also the use of pills. Yes. The family planning pills. Family planning pills, yes. Yes. This can also be some of the factors that can be both cause those kind of problems. Yes, yes, yes. After now the mom has given birth to a child. Right. And somebody is under depression. When somebody is under depression, first of all the energy level wins. It's true. You feel tired all the time. Exactly. You feel sleepy all the time. Yes. True, true. Then you oversleep. Then you lose even the appetite. True. Or sometimes you lose the appetite. Yes. And for men even the libido go down. It's true. And the libido for men is going down. Even for the women it is not there. It's true. Yes, that's not their priority. Yes. And many times a mother tend to become more in-door than out-door. This jovi of mama was being going out there, chatting with other women, being the charity of the people of Bangladesh. Yes. Now she cannot live with the house. Wow. But she will still be making cause until people are coming. Yes. You can keep on promising people throughout the day and you will not leave that house. Yes. That's an indicator now of somebody is going down. Right. Yes. Is this familiar to you, Kovir? Yes. Okay. Me too. And so when that thing now happened, the environment is very important to understand. This is what happens however, maybe before I come to that, I need to say that when Togambodna was put on depression, you have got three types that affect women. Okay. However, this depression was also men. If you are my spouse and you have this was put on depression, you are also going to depress me. Absolutely. As your spouse, you also stress me. True. But many things within to overlook the man side. True. Is the woman who is depressed. Yes. But the fact that you don't want to see me. Yes. You are hurting me. You are doing something to me. Yes. You are doing this to me all the time. Yes. There is nothing you can appreciate me even for offering you that now. Yes. I have got a lot of impact on me. This is also the man and also the child can be depressed. Right. Because of the fact that the man is depressed. Right. So there is a lot of impact in the entire family system. Yes. Yes. Makes sense. Yes. There is a lot of impact. So now we have three types of depression that are put on depression. We have got the normal bruise. Baby bruise. Baby bruise. Yes. That will come on the onset. Yes. And this normal bruise, it is a bit tricky. And I picked from Madam Kobi award. Yes. What she was narrating is a bit tricky. Yes. She is giving you high five. Yes. She is giving you high five. Yes. The next moment she is down. Yes. She is down. Is it the same Kobi award? Right. And you can misunderstand. Yes. I think that is a crazy woman. Yes. She is not crazy. Yes. She is having those bruises. Yes. Those baby bruises. Right. And however, baby bruises they take shorter time. Right. The moment you are down, the moment you are cranky. Yes. The moment you are very moody. Yes. The moment you don't want even to say it to anybody. Yes. If it takes a short time. Yes. That's why they are calling now baby bruise. Right. Yes. And sometimes we might be busy that probably is because of the reflection of what has happened. That's true. However, it is not managed. Yes. And it is very easy to manage that when it comes to the interventions, it is easy to manage the baby bruise. Yes. However, if it is not managed, the graduate now, the second one, you are calling now postpartum depression. Postpartum depression. Yes. That one, it takes longer time. And these signs and symptoms, they are stronger than, they are more intense and more severe than for the baby bruise. I see. Okay. That is one of the major differentiations. That is now they are more intense. Right. And they also increase the baby bruise. Okay. And at that particular moment when somebody, now mum is at the stage of now postpartum depression. This mother is down. She can't sleep. She can't, even communication is a problem. She can't even take care of herself. Yes. She became, she didn't know how to become, her identity to herself. Her identity to herself. And even to the environment. Yes. She is right at home. Yes. She can't even work. Yes. She is in pain. Yes. And sometimes she might reach a point of even developing a set of appa there. But she does not see interest in life. She cannot even hurting herself or mutilating herself. She is down. I see. And sometimes now this can even really put the spouse down. Because I can't understand what happened to my wife. I don't understand. Right. So that again also now break the communication system in the family. And this also shed a lot of fear in the system. Because there movement of a, there is a lot of anxiety, a lot of tension in this family. Right. So that now compound the problem. But those two conditions are manageable. They are manageable very easily through to the medication and the cancering. Okay. Baby bruise and the postpartum depression. Right. They are manageable. If there is good support, they are manageable through medication. Because we have got the anxiety drugs that psychiatrists are going to give this particular person or the guide of the particular person. Yes. And also are the depressed and the drugs they manage. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. However, there are the conditions which are calling now the psychotic condition. Aha. Right. The psychosis. Yes. When somebody becomes psychotic, they have lost the reality. The reality testing now is impaired. Right. Because this division is preoccupied with the hallucinations which are audio and visual images which are not there. Oh. But to the one of this particular person they are seeing. Okay. They are seeing things and they hearing. Yes. Voices which are very clear. Wow. And these voices can make even to go and hurt yourself. Sure. And sometimes might start seeing yourself as if you are an exalted being. Aha. You start seeing yourself as a maybe the first lady in the nation. Wow. And when maybe there is lightning you start saying that probably God is speaking to you. Yes. Actually that is the beginning of many kauta along the region when people which is at the stage of becoming psychotic. Yes. Yes. Then these delusions which are very strong forced beliefs that the individual has. If I develop these forced belief that you are bewitching me, you cannot remove yourself there. It's true because you want to believe that. At that stage if it's a man when they are become psychotic, they can stand in your office from morning to evening. Wow. And when you ask them what they are saying, what they are doing is that they are marrying this lady. Wow. Yeah. This somebody who is mentally sick. True. No marriage is there. Even you don't know this very good person. I hear you. And if they develop something like it for you which is part of the delusions, they follow you wherever you go. It's true. And it makes a lot of sense. If they hate you. Yes. That's the end. All right. Because of our time. Because of time is. We have for you to walk us in one minute. Walk us through the interventions. Thank you. Yes. Now intervention procedure for somebody with deposivitum depression is first of all is medication. So the medical practitioner who has been seeing this mum need to continue seeing that mum. Okay. Number two is cancering services. Okay. Number three is the environment where the person is coming from to be very supportive. Right. That is even the spouse. Yes. The caregivers need to be very supportive. Right. Number four, this particular person need to be connected to a supportive group. Like a group of mama. Right. And these mamas, they should not be like the krema and mamas whereby they only talk about whatever is mamas. Right. We can be able to talk about it. Real solutions to real problems. Yes. Then this mama, number five, the mama need to eat out of baras diet. Aha. And she do what you call in our self care. You love and she love herself selfishly. Yes. And she stop giving herself negative feedback about herself. Right. Then also this mama need also to get some element of sensitization whereby the mum need to understand how brand group because some of the problem we have to do with the type of food we are eating. Aha. If she is eating this kind of food, isn't it in line with our brand group because some food we are eating, they are triggering blood, they are triggering depression because you are not eating the light food which is in line with your blood group. Oh wow. That's now bringing whatever you call lifestyle diseases. I see. So that appearing is very, very, very important. Right. And of course seeking guidance from people who have been going, like now the testimony of my sister here. Yes. That testimony can become now a pillar to help people to know that if she overcame. Right. Who am I not. Who am I not. We are not sure for now, that's what I can say. Yes. Though there are other tips we can probably talk later. It's okay. No, you still give us as maybe Kofia tells us how she feels you know from this conversation what is going through your mind and what can you tell that mama or people out there. Like there are some things that maybe affected me. Yes. It's funny that we will never know. Yes. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Yes. So I think the most important thing is discovering at least one. Recognize. Yes. Yes. So there's a root level of it that then things come up, bend up and it becomes was. Right. So it's always good like to know where did the die start. What was the trigger. What was the problem. Where did I start. Right. Yes. Okay. We will see this away, we will sit down. Yes. Then you are told can everyone say something to the new ma'am. Yes, to the new ma'am. How you say. Yes. This puts some depression. Yes. How you say. There is that thing. So make sure the moment you feel something is not right call someone, call a friend who is not, who will not judge you. Sure. Don't do that. You don't have time for the bad negative energy. No. Yes. Yes. If you're not comfortable talking to your partner because maybe he is the reason why maybe you have that situation. True. Talk to your friend. Yes. Talk to your friend. Right. Okay. So Mrs. Willis maybe as we wrap up, do you feel like prenatal care should include a lot of education around postpartum and why could they be going wrong as medical practitioners. It's the non provision or assumption or they just doing their work and that is to take care of the baby. Thank you Madam Maureen. Yes. No. Actually prenatal care should be a collaboration between the medical facility and the mental health practitioners to support these dear parents who are coming to the market. True. Good. And yes, they are joining the market. Yes. So and then also that prenatal care need to understand that for postpartum depression to be triggered is not necessarily the first child. Any child you give up to can trigger postpartum depression. Yes. Yes. The first child. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is the average of the fusion and this now we are in medical facility or in our health care facility, what are on the and the system. We need to integrate different professionals. Like in the unity system we also need to be having the lawyers. Yes. we need to be having the psychologist. Yes. And agree to that when we are conducting an assessment of a suspect it is holistic objective view that they are giving this persons. Yes. We need to be having social workers in the hospital, facility to take care of these young mothers. We need to be having psychologists there, we need to be having the medics, the gynaecologist, all those practitioners and every person must be given an opportunity to interact with these kiage, with these moms so that I can give you my objective professionalism view. I did go to school just for the sake of being this way. I went to get information to stop mankind. Give you a medical view, I give my psychological view, give you a spiritual view, then give me your medical view, then as a result it will be a holistic package. Wow, that is something to think about. Even nutritionists need to be there. Yes, it's very true because I've been through it twice, nobody told me about postpartum depression. In fact I recognized mine long after I was out of it. Accidentally. Yes, sure. Oh my goodness. Same case. Right? Yes. And then second time around I thought I would be ready. Well I did better than the first one. Got it. But I remember the baby blues were real, they beat me up. Like I was a wreck, but then I was also deliberate about fighting. So I said no more close curtains, I'll force myself, I had a routine. I would wake up, bathe my baby, bathe myself, look pretty, get in the car, just go walking around the mall with a stroller. And I didn't realize that it was doing me good because it was getting my strength back. It was therapeutic. So just go sit down and have a hot chocolate at a cafe. Again I was lucky because my last born baby was very calm and cute. So he was just good to look at. But as we wrap this up, maybe we can start with you. Kobi, what would be your last word to our audience today? I would advise if you've gone through the situation and you know about it, share with people. Share. Yes. Share, share, share. So that someone can recognize before. You see, for you it didn't go far, mind didn't go far. Maybe someone can be affected so badly. We have seen people killing kids, throwing babies. I think we can avoid that. I think we can avoid that. Yes. So we need to be there. When you are going for the clinic, it has to come along. With all this? Yes. I don't think it's, the postpartum comes like that time. I think it's something that has been there but maybe since you got expectant and all that, then something triggers it like that. So if we have people telling young or first-time mums, this is what happened or maybe this can happen. They're more aware and they know how to tackle that. I agree 100%. What about you? What would you tell our audience? I would tell the audience first of all when a couple want to get the baby, they need to be physically and psychologically prepared so that the preparation that come in hand with the preparation for the child we have the money for the household. We also need to minimize the squabos in the family. Basically for self awareness and personal development because awareness is needed. We also need to advise the mums after delivery to avoid a lot of visitors, especially the first one month, minimize the visitors because even if the back is not healed the cinema is not recovered so if you are the same person who is watching the clothing and entertaining everybody, you go down in the name of being a generous idiot. We just give back. And they also can be monitoring the mobile phones but when some mums got a baby or they are able to be appearing like Kassafalikoma and they can't do it, they need to reduce the mobile phones. When the baby is sleeping you need the opposite to the people. You need the opposite. Because you need to recommend the energy to be able to support this child. Sleep when the child is sleeping but even when you run out of the appetite to sleep you just try. You can just relax. Then do exercises. Don't make yourself any camps. I agree. Use less energy when you are smarter than when you are. I agree. It makes you feel good about yourself. Right. I will not even add a single thing. This has been such an informative session. I hope you learnt something today and I hope that you learnt that it's okay not to be okay. It's good to recognize what's going on with you for the people around new mums or second time mums or third time mums. Realize that just because there was another child before they are immune to postpartum depression cancer causes. Be kind. Let's take care of our mums because they are the givers of life and when there is a happy mum there will be a happy baby and a happy family. Thank you so much to Moka Coffee Africa located at Ananas just directly opposite Sarut Centre for hosting us. Thank you crew at Santini Sana for showing up and for making this happen. Until next time, have a good night.