 It's nice to have you here with us, Mr. Ramson. I'm honored to be here. So the first question I want to make, I want to start this debate, if you can access the legacy of WikiLeaks work regarding journalism and the sense of the importance when we look at the global violence interventions and wars since the beginning of the 2000s, how do you see the legacy of WikiLeaks works? I think the legacy of WikiLeaks will in historical terms when people reflect back have been quite extraordinary and it comes on many layers. If you think about this period of this century, there's always a difficulty putting some starting point in an era, but let's say a certain era started in 911 with the attack on the United States. What followed was a dark spin in politics and an attack on human rights in Western countries and also this horrible wars that followed in Afghanistan and Iraq and then the drone wars in several countries and what have you. So it marked a turning point in global politics which was undermining the security of individuals in many aspects. We see attacks on press freedom. We see an attack on privacy. We see of course direct violence, military violence and police violence. This is happening all over the world and this is instigated by this attack, by this one man in the cave in Afghanistan. So I would say secrecy by Western powers increased dramatically. You can see that in basically graphs for example on the amount of documents that were put into secrecy category in the United States. We saw corporate secrecy increased as well. So on all level there was a decline and journalism did not have the right answer for it. The introduction of the scientific journalism that Julian Assange created with the website and the idea that we can push back by creating a platform for whistleblowers to submit information, raw information that can then be analyzed and published in entirety. I say scientific because that's the scientific method to basically provide the raw material to the individuals so they can double check and investigate by themselves. But of course also we went into this cooperation with mainstream media and media all over the world and even French media or whatever you call it to analyze the material that was published. So it was an explosion of waters yet I would say in terms of journalism, the publications of the files from Iraq and Afghanistan, I'm referring to the military files, the 250,000 documents from the Department of States in the US, the diplomatic cables, the files from the assessment files of the inmates in Quantanamo Bay, it ripped open a totally new reality. And the impact of course was tremendous in political terms and I think we are seeing a change to world after that. Of course the political impact was quite obvious. In the beginning it sparked a process or helped escalate what we call now the Arab Spring or the Arab Awakening. And it calls into question the legitimacy of this abuse of the empire of its position. It also created material for a lot of people to actually get justice that had not been deprived of justice of war crimes or renditions. So the material that we published has been used to get some form of justice for those who were wronged to end the impunity of war crimes and illegal acts against, for example, renditioned people. It was used for example in the El Marche case in the European Court of Human Rights and was a very important document and proof. The documents from the diplomatic cable can't be said to have led to the final withdrawals of all troops from Iraq because the Iraqi government, after some elements were established in the diplomatic cables about wrongdoing and cover-up of abuses in the country after 2003, the government in Iraq could no longer provide the U.S. military with a commitment of total sanctuary for all wrongdoing and that led to the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. But the other important story, which is often overlooked because it's ongoing, is the exposure which are inherent in the reaction by the United States of America and other countries that are collaborating with the U.S. and how they responded to these leaks. And that is a very important story that is still ongoing with the imprisonment of Julian Assange with the attack on the organization and other who work for the organization. That is an ongoing story and the proof of how far the superpower is willing to go in the act of revenge is astonishing. And that story, the reaction story, will probably be in historical terms as important story as of the weekly story. It is the action and then the reaction. And that often happens in journalism. I mean, the most famous example, of course, is Watergate. It was not the stealing of the papers, but it was the cover-up and the lies and the break-in into the Watergate building and the cover-up and the lies about it that caused the resignation of Nixon. So you have, and that is, of course, the ongoing story that we are dealing with at the moment, which we would happily be without because as journalists, we want to be doing our jobs. But this has now happened to me, my job and my colleagues to put all the emphasis that we have on trying to end this persecution and this violence against Julian Assange and this law firm that is ongoing because we recognize as all major organizations in the world today that this is an attack, not just on Julian and Wikileaks, it's an attack on press freedom worldwide. So if I may, you mentioned Watergate. And that was a famous case of exposure. If you could elaborate a little bit more on that, thinking about context, what is different from the 70s concerning actually also what you said about the persecution or the reaction to journalists and journalistic endeavors in the 70s and in the 2000s? Well, the comparison is chilling in many respects because I think we tend to look back at the 70s as being the dark period of Nixon era, where the bad things happened. But actually the Nixon era and the bad things happening in that framework of time is much less severe than what we are witnessing today. So we are in a much more precarious situation and journalism is under a much severe attack today than it was back in the day. And just as an illustration, Daniel Ellsberg, who was the person who leaked the Pentagon Papers in the same period and indirectly had an effect on the Nixon resignation, told me, because he's a huge supporter and he came to London, and he said that if I had been doing what I did as a whistleblower today, instead of in the early 70s, I would have never seen a day as a free man. I would never have been gotten off. They would have locked me up for the rest of my life under the certain regime, under the certain, the same sort of situation that Julian Sanchez deal with. So we are, that's a chilling thing to say. We haven't progressed. We have regressed. We are now at a worse state than 50 years ago. So you already started talking about this, but if you, so we talk about the legacy of Wikileaks, what are the challenges today? And we can think about important things that happened a year ago, the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in a terrible way. We have the Ukrainian war now. How Wikileaks, but not only Wikileaks, journalists, initiatives can help, maybe can help build, I would say, a more peaceful world, or if not peaceful, a more accountable world. I agree with Julian Sanchez when he said that our primary aim should be to stop wars, not just to expose the wrongdoing in wars. And we are not there yet. We have to admit that. You talk about the Afghanistan, which is the longest war that the U.S. has entered into, and ended in a rather humiliating manner for them after billions of dollars of expenses. And the human cost in human lives, that is, of course, you cannot count in monetary value. If people had paid more attention to the Afghan files that were published in 2010, this would have ended sooner. It would have been 10, 12 years instead of 20 years. Because there was nothing new in the evaluation that led to the decision, okay, let's end it. That was not already there in the files 10 years earlier. So this is in fact a bit disappointing that it did not create more attention to actually quicken the end of this horrible spectacle that was not going anywhere. How can we contribute to preventing wars? It is a difficult situation. And it is getting more and more difficult because there are forces in play in our societies internationally that are working against any chance of that becoming a success.