 So, um, we both think it, right? My God, I'm a God, I'm a God, y'all see the reeds, boys. All right, so we are back in Dragon Ball Fighters because very recently they announced a huge change was coming, AKA a balance patch mostly, at least by their tweet, to Nerf 21. Yeah, 21 was getting banned. A lot of tournaments, the character was causing a havoc. And now I brought Lotus here because we're going to talk about that. You know the vibes. We're going to go back and forth. Now, Lotus, you actually, we talked about this on your channel in another video. But you played 21 quite a bit. I played her as well. Uh, it's not like you need to play her that much to see why she's a player. You figure out pretty quickly what's strong with her. You got way more experience. So what are your just in general thoughts on 21 as she is right now? So I actually think the character is really cool and a lot of fun. But I completely understand that she needs to be toned down because, for one, she's causing way too much controversy and like infighting within the community. And if it makes people a lot happier and enjoy the game to nerf her, I'm here for that, even though I do like her a lot. That being said, I do think the debuff that she applies to characters not only slows the game down, but slows down events overall, like in tournaments, which is like a kind of a big deal because this is already a game that takes a long time anyway. And then just in general, it's just a really strong move that I think could be stand to to be removed all together. Some people have talked about whether, you know, you can make it stack or you just nerf how much it does or whatever. But truth be told, the movie is just so strong that you just take it with the debuff property all together. It's still pretty godlike. This is another thing we talked about on your video, but it's just like as somebody that doesn't play 21 too much, like I still think she would be crazy snapped if the grab super was just that like it was just a grab and it didn't have any effect on damage or anything like that. Yeah, like you said, it makes the games go so much longer. And another thing is I brought this up just a little bit, but it's a weird thing in fighting games to just want to say, like, this is a Gigo next kind of situation. But if your team is debuffed by 21 or you're already down pretty bad, it's like, you know, I got to start playing what I'm going to do in game two. You know, I'm not trying to lose a best of three right here. Right. I will say the one thing I don't like about those that even though I'm here for her getting there, I do not support the idea of her getting banned, but that's also part of the reason why I'm like kind of glad she's getting nerfed because I would rather see her get nerfed and banned. You know, I think I just in general, I usually don't support the idea of like banning characters from events. It's not to say like it angers me because I've seen people feel very strongly about like, oh, this is so stupid, this is so corny, whatever. I'm like, well, no, like I don't agree with it, but it doesn't make me upset. Yeah, I may you actually kind of I didn't realize we aligned our view so closely on banning characters. It's like the same thing for me is like just in principle, I really don't like banning characters. Yeah. And it's something I've talked about like in my videos where like I also don't like the precedent that it nice guard canceled the precedent that it sets where it's just like, oh, we think this character is too strong. So we should just opt to ban her. Oh, wait. Huh? Oh, shit. That was just the weight. That was sick. Word. Word. I managed to early. Um, where it's just like if people feel too strongly about a character, they can get them banned when it really might not even be necessary. Um, and I kind of didn't like the, the, I don't want to say it in a way to make it bow. You wanted the counter. I didn't like the way a lot of the top players vocalize their opinions of the character because I'm not, I'm not even saying that they're wrong or that they shouldn't know that they can't, but it's, um, I feel like it had like a very poisonous effect on like the casual player base where even they feel like it is an absolute necessity for them to play the character in order to like win even in online games. And I really feel like when people are saying stuff like that, they're talking about the highest level was like, oh, 21 is a must play character because I mean, I've played my fair share of the character and still lost and I've fought plenty of her online and beat her without using her. Right? A lot of people. No, I don't think I've always thought this about Dragon Ball fighters, but there's never been a, uh, listen, there's, there's some fighting games where if you're playing a certain character, uh, it's just like, why, you know, like if you're, if you're having fun, that's great. But like you're not going to be winning a ton of games. Like in NBC two, there's definitely like some teams you can run that's just like, okay, like nice team you got there, but I don't think you're going to win many games. But Dragon Ball fighters, you could pretty much get a team of three anybody. And if you're deep, your defense is good enough in Dragon Ball fighters, you're fine. Like you're going to be okay, especially just online. Right. And that's another thing is I feel like there is a very big difference. I'm like, those of us playing ranked in casual games online and the highest level, uh, competitively. Hmm. And another big thing is that at the competitive level and this always sounds sort of insulting, but it's not at all. But another thing that's very high value at a competitive level is like, um, being very good, having a lot of options, all the normal stuff you would assume. And then also 21 is just very, she is a quality that I think is just so good for that level is just very simplistic. You know, it's not, you have to do anything too crazy. I agree. Right. But I think to a, to an extent, this also applies to having to have a certain level of skill or, uh, so I'm looking for, uh, proficiency in the game because I, I, I, not to put them on blast specifically, but like, I remember when 21 came out, Nitro was like, oh, she's the easiest character in the game. And like, yeah, for a player like you, but I saw a lot of like, you know, less skilled players, you know, people who watch us pick 21 up and really struggle with her, uh, because she's a bit weird. She's got the double hitting normals, um, and they could, they still couldn't do the rejump. And like, I do think she is an easy character for a proficient player. But again, it's like sometimes when you see a top player say something that like it applies to top players, not necessarily everybody plays the game, but don't, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to like downplay that she, she isn't easy character to anyone who knows what they're doing in this game. Yeah. And that's like, uh, that's just another really strong aspect of like what makes her so good at like that top level, just cause you get good results, you get all these good options. Also, you know, you're not relying on, on very hard strings or, or very difficult choices to get to that level. Also, please don't hit me. All right. Never mind. Oh, no, not like this. Oh, you got these. Oh, we got to take a whole, we got to take a whole break from the point of this video. Just watch that. I'm so bad. I dropped that and I lose hit. Uh, well, I didn't think I dropped the combo. I lost it cause I reflect it, but still Krillin should be Krillin y'all should be, be on their last legs right now. But yes, 21 is the main focus and she definitely in this, in the balance patch, all we could say for sure is that she probably will be receiving a nerf. We don't know what, or we don't know how, but they will be adjusting her. Right. And like we mentioned in my video, is that like even without the debuff super, like they could remove that super from her all together and she'd still be top tier. No, yeah. And that's that's the thing is honestly, they could remove a decent bit from her and she would still be pretty good. Like, like, even if she fell out of top 10, she would, I don't know. She just has a lot of fundamental things that make you very good at Dragon Ball Fighter in my opinion. But yeah, other than 21 again, it's, it's one of those things like me and Lotus both agreed on his videos, like, you know, we have a lot of hopes and like what could be changed. Like we have a lot of exciting stuff that we would love to see, but my expectations are that high just because of the way they announced it through a tweet, which is probably the best way they can go about getting the information out there. But with such a heavy focus on 21, it wouldn't surprise we have 21 was the only one that got changes. And that's like my biggest fear with this patch because that's the bad ending. That's the bad ending of all the things I want to see. I'm obviously not getting my hopes up too high because there's probably a lot that I'm not going to get to see, right? We all have a character we want to see get buffed. We all have a character we want to see get nerfed. You know what I'm saying? And there's a very real possibility that the only character that gets touched at all is Android 21. Now, I think a lot of us would be very disappointed with that. And I think they know that. So I'd like to think and hope that they're going to do more than that, but I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, get people's hopes up too high. Yeah. No, that's, that's my thing is like I, I always want to strike. I don't know why this happens. Obviously, I have no connection with Dragon Ball fighters at all. But when I say something, I always get at least a few comments like, but you confirm like, bro, like, I'm like, yeah, people always think YouTubers have some sort of inside information. Like he knows it like, nah, bro, I really wish I knew something, but I don't. I definitely don't got it like that. Please don't. Oh my God. Saw your life flash before. Yeah. Nice. Oh my God. Brahmat. Oh, you saw that coming up. Give me that. Yeah. I deserve that. I deserve that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Well, nevermind. I kind of forgot you could jump again. But yeah, speaking of the guy that just got destroyed, not me, Yamcha. That's my number one pick, bro. And honestly, on Twitter, it seems like people are rallying behind Yamcha, which is fine by me, bro. I'm there with you guys too. Cause even though I'm not like the biggest Yamcha supporter or I'm not a Yamcha player, he's the worst character in the game right now. And, you know, he could use some help. Um, but while Raddit, like, I know he just won the match and all, but that guy right there with the sword on his back. I think he can send it to a couple of buffs too. I think he's actually bottom tier at this point in the game. He just not, he's not competing with the rest of the characters at the moment. And crazy thing about trucks is I don't think I would even mind a top tier Trunks. Like, I think a lot of people would be fine with that because a lot of people think Trunks is really cool, but he sucks right now, man. And the crazy part is he's one of those kids. He's, he's in like the worst spot too. Cause he's one of those characters like super high effort and very little reward, but he's cool. So, you know, I'll always play and obviously for the bit, I do have to mention, you know, Jiren's counter, the, the, the famous try something, uh, it's like all jokes aside, Jiren is, is a really strong character in my opinion. Still like it's crazy because beforehand I was trying to tell people like it's not even just jokes guys, like Jiren, Jiren's really good. Um, but like, I still think he's really good. Like he still has all the, the crazy stuff. Um, and I think more people play him now, but still very, very good, but I would like to see the counter come back obviously just because it was such a fun move. But I don't think it will. I don't think so either, but I do think Jiren's in a pretty good spot right now. There's a lot of characters do. I think, um, are solid, but are underplayed, I guess just cause they're not the most popular, but Jiren is actually character at least online, maybe not competitively, but online. I feel like I see him a lot, especially because, uh, I do like this whole copycat challenge thing on the channel where like, I'll hop into casual match with the team I like and I'll take whoever I fight their team into ranks and then I copy the ranked opponent's team as well. And I feel like Jiren is like one of the most played characters that I've had to use in this challenge so far. Oh God. It's dead again already. Yeah, we are. We are getting this guy out of here. Oh, this helps you keep melting before I realize it, man. Yeah, I think, uh, so obviously when when they announced the balance patch on Twitter, I made a fair share of jokes. Um, and I do hope, uh, we said this on your video again, but I do hope they continue fighter stuff after this, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the final balance patch. I don't know what it would take to get them to make another season or just keep making content in general, like a rare character drop here or there. Right. I think we're past seasons at this point, but, you know, just in case an arc suspires out there listening, I don't think you understand like it ain't even jokes, bro. I will personally put up a decent bit of money to get any character at it, but specifically Raditz. Like, he's not my top pick, but I think he'd actually be a really cool character in this game. I just listen. Also, I think people sleep on aesthetics. I think Raditz design is nice. I think the OG Saiyan armor is nice. I like the same armor a lot. And we need the OG Saiyan trio, bro, three, three party members, but we can't use a Saiyan trio. I was kind of just surprised. I can't believe I dropped that. I thought you were a God for a second. I thought I was too. That's why I stuttered, bro. And I lost confidence. But yeah, Raditz is a character I wouldn't mind seeing. I've got a fair share of characters I'd like to see like the Super Saiyan fours or Super Saiyan Gods would be up there for me. Future Gohan is probably my number one alongside Tapeon. Those are two characters I was going to say. I remember you saying something about Tapeon, but Future Gohan will also just be really cool. I'm just going to do it, by the way. Oh, your God like I thought you might have a feeling. Just yeah, I just I just I realized it had been a little while since I did a roll of three. So something something about fighting Dotto do it just clicked in my head for a second and I was like, you know what? Yeah, we're betting, man. And so I thought it was my time. Oh, my God. It's man. It is crazy. I hope they do add a lot of buffs because again, but the bad ending here is they just adjust to 21. So, um, we both think it, right? My God, I'm a God. I'm a God. I was like, we both got to be thinking about this. I'm a God. Y'all see the reeds, boys. Do you see the green? Oh, no, I'm blocking this either. Oh, my God. Five check. I forgot he could do that. Oh, God, that first hit did a decent chunk. Oh, no. We'll do it again. I mean, I will. Oh, God. I tried to fuzz a joke. I mean, I would have done it again. That was bad. Um, but I had not pretty much said all I wanted to say about balance. I'm just trying to play fighters at this point. I'm back. I feel it. I feel it. Run the set. Run the set. Also, my hand has not been allowed to play. I like this character a lot. I just I'm just never been great with them. This panel is double Sunday to my characters, bro. That's what I dropped it on trash. That's still bros my life flash before my eyes. I saw what happened in that alternate reality, bro. I mean, oh, oh, my God. I still can't believe I never played here. I don't think many people know this, but it was supposed to be my main character coming into this game. I like that either. I like Dragon Ball Super and then my specific reason was because the sounds really weird looking back. But obviously with Dragon Ball fighters, you know, I think everybody says this about most fighting games, but when Dragon Ball fighters announced, I was like, this is my game, bro. I'm going to die. Yeah, I thought the same shit, but part of it being my game, bros that, you know, when rank came out, I was going to have a lot of rank points, but people were going to know about me. So I was like, it seems like you're wrong about that. It's some weird way Dragon Ball fighters did become a big part of my life. So it ended up actually working out. It did become my game. But my reasoning for not playing hit off the bat was just like, it seems like a character you'd have to, you know, put some time into lab. And if I'm just going to hop in a rank and try to learn by playing, then I'm not even going to mess with that. So I literally only did not pick up hit because I was like, nah, I got to play a blue ghost in TN instead. It was a character. I always thought was really cool and from the original like run of the Dragon Ball Super anime. He was my favorite character that came out of super. So I was pretty stoked about him being in the game. But like he's one of those characters were at the start of DBSZ. I was like, yeah, he a little weird. I don't really know what to do with him. So that's how I'll come back later. I never I never came back. I did come back and I'm glad that I did because I love this character. But it's never it is a never got a song. I wanted to be if we talk about old school Dragon Ball fighters. That was a big day. And you know, people post on Twitter like huge day for annoying people and when like news about something they don't like. Yeah, that was a that was like huge day for anti annoying people because Dragon Ball fighters was coming out and because it had Z at the end of its name, I would be talking to people like on the just anywhere on the Internet. The game talked about again. I was really annoying. I talked about fighters all the time. People were like not bro. It's going to be a Dragon Ball Z exclusive game because it's fighters with a Z and I was like, I don't think that matters as much as you think it does. So when they announced Goku Black Beerus and hit all together, I was like, thank God, these arguments are done. I was like, I have seen enough of these comments. To be fair, I might have added a bit to that because I definitely one of my first videos that blew up was a video of me talking about the Dragon Ball Fighters roster and what the potential characters could be. And this is like when the game first got announced and I had one of my theories with that. It could not not saying that that was most likely be the case, but I theorized that it might be a possibility that it was a Dragon Ball Z only game and there won't be super stuff in it. And even in that video though, I was like, well, they could still add like Beerus and some of these other characters because technically they are Dragon Ball Z characters because of like the movies Battle of Gods and Resurrection of the Year. But I think even in that video I still was like, I still put super characters in there anyway. So I was like, yeah, I want to see hit Goku Black or some shit like that. Yeah. And I was just, I was so happy they added those because one like that gives a game a lot more new stuff they can go with. But I know I was also completely wrong about the roster. Like obviously Raditz. I think I made a lot of good predictions when I made that video. You know what? I even called 17 and 18 being like a what 18 ended up being I was like, yeah, they could play together and just be like one character and I was like, oh, shit, I called that one. Oh my God. That is unfortunate. I need some buffs, bro. That's what they did buff that. Remember, they gave it more range before. That's the funniest part. They it's it is buffed. Hey, bro. I just I miss Yoncha. I don't. But I feel for you. It is crazy, bro. I miss a peak Yoncha. The peak Yoncha was a while. Anyway, at least you at least you had a peak. I can't say I miss the trunks trunks was never peak. I was going to say I think trunks might be the best he's ever been right now and he's still bottom tier. That's crazy. Yeah, I don't think trunks ever I don't think trunks ever was flying too high. Was there a man trunks? Yeah, I really want to top tier trunks just because pro play trunks is already pretty fun to watch. Honestly, what pro play? Well, that's the thing is it's not it's not a thing anymore, but it used to be like there was there was that one guy. I can't remember his name right now. Okay from season one. Yeah, that's it. I think that's exactly what I'm talking about. The Japanese player. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always thought that it was fun to watch that guy play. Yeah, he was my favorite player to watch back then. For obvious reasons. Unfortunately, that is just that those days are long behind trunks. Goodbye hit. I really wanted to play this character in this video and I just don't think I did. Wait, oh, no, no, I'll give you a chance, bro. Thanks. Oh, no, I really didn't want to though. I know why. Damn. Oh my. I just got clapped. I got these. You got these. You got these. I know you got trunks assist, but maybe you don't want to. Oh, that's not good. Pain. Oops. Also, I want you to know you're a single-handedly responsible for being as popular as he is. I don't. Bro, I think Jared is just like sleeper and the thing is, I don't know. I have no clue what it is with Jiren and like people can bring it up, but like people think I'm a huge Jiren fan, but actually like I know Jiren had his fair share of haters from just the show. I wasn't a hater. I was kind of like, you know, he's all right. Oh, he's just like it. Yeah. He's a generic bad guy to me or generic antagonist, I guess. I only really like Jiren because of fighters. Like I thought like I think counters are the coolest fighting game mechanic and he had those. And then like, obviously, it just like I didn't even really play him that much until like they broke his counter and it countered dry like as soon as I saw it countered he was just like, all right, this is I gotta play this. I was like, all right. So he's just the coolest character in the game. That's crazy. But yeah, Jiren for some reason really popular online. It's something I'm trying to tell you you made the character entertaining for people. So now they think he's cool to play. I think he's cool to play like to be honest, like he's still pretty sad like this. I move like this. I be a range is good. Oh, I'm I'm getting cooked again. I didn't go before. Gotcha. Word it recovers that fast. How's that move? How's that move that active but also recovers that fast? What do you mean? The thing is, bro, like I try to tell people, bro, when that counter was at its peak, like it was not a joke, bro. That counter was ridiculous. Oh, I had my share of videos on the channel of some lost files of me and beyond getting smoked by it. I recall. It was just that counter for a long time and it still is really good. But, damn, it's one of the things to where people are always like just I hold a last last the topic I want to talk about is I think people put way too much people put way too much stock and just fighting games in general, but also fighters in what is and isn't technically reactable. I said that was the last one. We got to do one more. All right, for sure. No, I agree with you though. Go on. But like just like reactable and stuff like this. And this is not just with 21 because this this was a thing on Twitter that I saw that topic about. Yeah. I think too. I don't know why people can never have like a civil discussion about the real mean on Twitter, bro. And it's not even about that. But it is that thing like like this is technically reactable and this is like this like with Yamcha like his crossover Wolfgang fist like it's like it's not even real. Like it's whatever. I remember when people was like, oh, yeah, that shit will never work because it was like hold my beer. It'll never work. Yeah. And then you single handedly like I really cause it was probably my favorite player ever to watch just because like if you watch him play it's like it's like nothing that you can't do yourself. I don't well. I mean, obviously when when it's time to clutch up, he's like, oh, yes, I do play this game professionally. But like for the most part, his strategy was just like, let me force people to like hold this and then let me just see what I get like that. And then he would use Gohan if they were jumping. Wow. I thought that wiffed for sure. But now you're right. Like Kazunoko, he had a very simplistic strategy, but he utilized it extremely effectively. Yeah, no, it was just really effective, really basic traditional stuff. And I was like, and that's so sick to me. Wow. I'm good cook. Why didn't my vanish? I pushed vanish and got to jump me. But I'm very sad about it. And then why didn't the first hit I got the first place? You know what? Wow. That was just unfortunate to look at. You know what? I deserve this. But yeah, I think technically reactable and just like what people actually end up reacting to are very different. I think another thing people don't take into account sometimes. This is like a small detail, but it matters a lot. It's like the native info delay of some of these games. Yeah, that too. I mean, just just like whatever whatever people can and can't like Bardock's. What is it? I don't know the specific name of the move, but the one that he winds back his fist and punches. Yeah. Not the fastest move, but the amount of people you see just stand there and block that, which is not advantageous at all because you're you know, you just got to hold that again. Right. But it's just like a fear thing. Like there's a lot of stuff that's going on in that player's mind when they're sitting there. So like, you know, just like stuff like that reaction based off is is wild to watch, which I brought up because Yom just specifically is the one I always remember. Now, ain't no way that'll ever work, bro. Offline or online. It's too slow. I think it's good. Wow. Wow. All right, bro. Trunks, why are you? I'm going to get you one of these days. I'm going to get you one of these days. I'm going to get you one of these days. Bro, I called Trunks' sister's smoking. He's afraid. What are you afraid of? He's a short little bald man. Bro, I can't even, they don't even see me in Jiren's intro, bro. We find out Trunks is afraid of Jam Cross. Actually, I don't even, I don't have no clue how tall Jam Cross is. He might be my height for all I know. We're tall. I actually, yeah, I have no idea how tall he is either. But I do know that that man posted the funniest Skullgirls clip I've ever seen. That was a funny clip. I didn't drop that clip real quick. This guy got the Eve Ungalian being played on him on his own tournament. Oh, I'm the Yacht and Crohn's Ed. Well, well, that's it. That's it for me. I still have a whole yamcha to get through back there. What's wrong? I still got a whole Jiren that I'm just about to do stuff with. Yeah, that's Jiren. I hate it here. I didn't know what to do. No, my vanishing come out. Why are you like this? Just old times like, you know, I was just trying to mash it out. I'm by Jiren. I'm like actually 90 percent sure I lose these now. That's the crazy things. My constant. There's no way. There's no. You have full health and spark, bro. A key blast of vanishing. I don't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my God. Since I've been here before. Very okay. I was like, I was playing that real slow like that is probably where we're going to wrap it up. Yeah, that's fighters for you, dude. I got lost in the game. Man, love this game so much. Any any closing thoughts? Now, I just hope that people don't get their hopes up too high for the patch and that the patch does actually deliver it because there's a real chance that there's not a whole lot happening in it. But I'd like to think that with the community managers that they're working with and all the feedback that they've gathered and things like that. Yeah, yeah. You shut up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Shut up to like Roman Nova, Tyrant, and ask us all those guys who's been working close with bad and anybody else working behind the scene. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Trying to get some changes applied to the game. But other than that, man, I'm just excited for some new life to be breathing to the game and for the things to kind of calm down in terms of like all the controversy surrounding it right now. Man, lab coat really really did a number on on the road, man. Yeah, I pretty much agree with every point you made there and Buffy on Jim with that. I think we could wrap this video up.