 Hey, everyone. Hope you're having an amazing time at KubeCon. And in this panel, we're going to talk about how you can rock out with non-code contributions. Since this is a student track and me being a student myself, getting involved in open source has helped me tremendously. For new folks who are getting involved in the CNCF, we know that it may feel a little bit overwhelming. But do not worry. In this session, we are going to learn about how you can get your journey started. Speaking of the session, we have an amazing panel over here. Hey, folks, how's everyone doing? Maybe you can start with a little bit of introduction. How about Matt? Sure, Kunal. Thanks. Hey, I'm Matt Broberg. I work at Red Hat. But I've been contributing to Kubernetes in my free time. I helped found the upstream marketing slash contributor comms group. And that's where we focus on non-code contribution and helping contributors to Kubernetes talk to each other. So that's what I'm up to. Chris, why don't you go? Sure. I'm Chris Short. I'm a CNCF ambassador since 2018, 2017, so a while now. And then I'm also a Kubernetes contributor in the sense of I've been in CIG Contributex for a long time. I've helped with multiple community events, including contributor summits. And I spend a lot of my time now on the same team that Matt is on the upstream marketing team. And I'll hand it over to Kazzlin. Hi, everyone. I'm Kazzlin Fields. And I'm a developer advocate at Google. We're doing job titles. But I'm also a cloud native computing foundation ambassador. And again, a contributor to the Kubernetes CIG for contributor experience. And I'm really excited to talk to you all today about non-code contribution and the potential of your journeys into tech from being students. And I'm the last guy. And my name is Bart. And I am the leader of the data on Kubernetes community. And I'm also a CNCF ambassador. And I'm here because of all the wonderful people that are also on this panel that help my onboarding experience into the CNCF and getting started as a non-code contributor to Kubernetes. Anyway, just really excited to be here and sure we're going to have some fun. And my name is Kunal. I am also a CNCF ambassador. And it looks like that we are repeating this a lot. So many CNCF ambassadors on this panel. That's pretty exciting. And I'm also a student. So I'm going to be graduating next year. And if you're watching this recording, so I'm already graduated. So I've been contributing to the marketing team. And I do developer advocacy at CIO. And yeah, super looking forward to this session. So before we get started with the discussion, what is non-code contribution? How you can get involved? Speaking from my point of view, when I first started with my engineering degree, I thought like in computer science and in communities, coding was the only thing that mattered. And when I actually got involved in open source, I realized how much more efforts are required to run a community. From my personal experience as a student who is just starting out with some tool or technology and trying out different things, I think the key thing for me when I'm first starting over at tech is documentation. If there's no good documentation, then it's going to be like a big no for me to actually get involved and contribute. It's going to be very hard. So good documentation and all these other things are key. And contributing to such large scale open source projects, which we'll obviously talk more about later on, as a student can be really overwhelming at first. And the thing that makes it really easy or sets a path and provides you the correct roadmap and mentorship is the community. It wasn't for the community. To be honest, I would have found it very challenging as compared to not having any support. So the community helped me quite a lot. And they sort of like, if you talk about weekly meetings, so you can definitely join weekly meetings of any particular project you want to contribute to and ask questions over there, get started. But those were some of my experiences about how I got started with non-court contributions. But speaking of running communities, we have Baat over here with us who has entirely focused on over the last one year building the data on Kubernetes community and how he is rocking out with non-court contributions. So I'd love to hear from Baat. Baat, would you like to share his presentation? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And thanks for mentioning that. It's been very helpful for me in parallel working the data on Kubernetes community and then also being able to benefit from the incredible energy and welcoming spirit and pain and forward spirit that's really inside the CNCF. And something that another person in the CNCF, hippie hacker, refers to as viral generosity. And I've benefited from that and from the people who were on this call as well as lots of other folks that are out there. And let's face it, 2020, 2021 have been very hard years. What I always say is like a little bit of optimism, a little bit of positive energy, a little bit of welcoming spirit goes a really long way. And Matt as the leader of our upstream marketing meetings from day one has made me feel extremely welcome. I was transparent with him about my background. He's talking about students. 5,000 years ago when I was a student, I didn't study computer science. I studied religious studies. And so I've suffered from imposter syndrome. I was looking at prerequisites and thinking this is definitely not for me. And now as a person who's been involved in this community for over, for about a year, I feel like it's not only a duty, it's a privilege to be able to invite other people to this wonderfully welcoming space. And so that's another non-code contribution is telling other people about it. First, you got to understand a little bit but it's super easy when people are really excited about helping you out. And then you can go and explain to other people what this is and how they can get involved regardless of their background. Now, having said that as someone who's not so technical, I kind of like to hear from Matt about your experience and how you've gone through that. Yeah, so I got into sort of the open source contribution lens from a technical angle from thinking of how products integrate with each other and giving back kind of technical requirements from my first job out of college was in tech support. So I've always had that lens of how do the pieces fit together and what is the human experience of troubleshooting things? And that can get lost in the nuance of software engineering quite a lot. So I've always been able to show up and have conversations advocating for the user, whether it goes into the engineering side, goes into integration testing, goes into user experience. But at the beginning of the lockdown in the pandemic in the United States last year, I kind of shifted from conference talks to looking to feel as connected as I do when I show up in a room with all of you. And I thought focusing in on Kubernetes was the place that I could feel that. And the need was way more around like how did thousands of people regularly contributing to one code base talk to each other? It's an incredibly non-trivial problem. Like I don't care what discipline you're coming from that's fricking hard. And that was what we sought out to solve for was how to get people to talk to each other in different channels consistently. And then as we've evolved this upstream marketing group, we found that one of the places that we've always wanted to be inclusive of all the different types of contribution, but we didn't really have a definition for it. So to back up to a definition, non-code contribution is giving back to an open source or public community in a way that doesn't involve checking in code. So that can be everything from organizing a local event to just being inviting to somebody into the community explaining what a term means to tweeting about what you're doing so that other people can learn from you to writing blog posts on your personal or on a public site to just kind of hosting a meeting and helping people move forward with ideas. Like you showing up as yourself is incredibly powerful and that is one of the things we try to build space to reinforce for people. And Kazzalyn, you and I have been working on a lot of this stuff together for a while now. I mean, what comes to mind as you think about your non-code contribution story even with your technical background? Yeah, so to give a little background on my background. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. So I went through the college route. I did a computer science degree, a bachelor's degree. And after school, I actually went back to school to not to study, but to advise other students to help out with on campus groups, to help out with career fairs and help to train the students for their upcoming careers. And something that you were saying with bringing your whole self to these technical pursuits. I was trying to express that to one of the students one time they were asking questions about what do I need to do to be ready for a job? Are there specific classes I need to take if I wanna go this route, that kind of thing. And something I was encouraging them about, especially when I talk about resumes and all the things you should put on there. I often talk about this is if you do things outside of technology that are really important interests to you, volunteer work, outside projects, they can be projects in music or art or other tech projects, whatever they may be, those are worth mentioning because they're all a part of you. And the person I was talking to was like, I have to put time into all of these other things too. What? And that was not the point at all. I think in the end, it's helping them only, right? Because if as a student like Matt mentioned, you're writing blogs, you're doing events, and basically if you teach someone something or if you document whatever you're learning, it's enhancing your knowledge as well. And Kubernetes, which we'll talk more about later, it's a really big, you know, the entire CNCF landscape that we talk about. It's really big and Kubernetes itself is a big project. So if you document your learning, if you teach someone something, even like your friends or in a local group or meetups, which you can definitely join, I think it's definitely helping you stand out as well and enhancing your knowledge as well. So Chris, maybe you would like to add on to that. Yeah, so, Kazzlin, you mentioned, you know, putting this stuff on your resume and it dawned back, like my background is like I was working in tech in high school as a kid, right? And my last job before joining the Air Force was actually a webmaster at a dial up ISP. And I joined the Air Force in 99 as the dot com bubble was starting to happen because I didn't really want to go to college. I didn't really want, you know, that whole experience thing at, you know, I wasn't, basically I went to three high schools in four years just because I moved around a lot and I was kind of done with school. But, you know, what I picked up in the Air Force was this public speaking ability that I never knew I had in high school. And I actually put that on my resume and still do, right? Because in tech you never find somebody that's technical and has a good public speaking tech like capability, right? Like those are like rare finds in tech. And we're finding them more and more now because of, you know, the way roles have changed in tech over the years. But it's always important to highlight those things that you can walk into bubblegum at the same time, right? Like because you can, you're human, you're very good at what you do, document that. All you have to do is just write that down and put that out there. And I think it's always been something that I've said, right? Like I list speaking events on my resume or website or wherever and, you know, kind of catalog them almost as a reference for myself. Like, hey, when did I do talk about XYZ? Like it's on my website. Like I don't have to remember that or go into some note file or anything like that. Like I know where to go find it. I put it all on my website. And that is a way to market yourself to companies to get more attention, right? Like if you just maintain your own website, which is actually surprisingly easy to do these days compared to, you know, GeoCities back in the day. Yeah, yeah. You can, you know, get your own domain and everything up and running for less than $1,000, right? Like thanks to a whole bunch of innovations that have happened in technology since I first started. So, you know, the getting involved in Kubernetes was just kind of a natural progression of my career, but getting involved to the extent I have is unique, right? It's not often that I consume a project and also contribute back to it. Like this is something that not a lot of people do on a regular basis. And it's worth highlighting the things that are coming out of Kubernetes, the project itself. I think it's also, I think- I'm sorry. I think a great point there is the intersection of interests. If there's something that you're interested in and you're not quite sure how it relates to your career or if it does at all, it's still okay to be interested in those things and to talk about those things. You might find interesting intersections along the way. Like I said recently, there's great value at the intersections of topics and areas of interest. So, always important to value all of your interests. You just gave me a great thought as well, Kasselin. There's also a value to looking at the intersection of need and your interests, even if the project yourself isn't exactly what you care about. Like quite frankly, this may be controversial for this audience and given the conference, I don't really care that much about container technology categorically. Like that's what Kubernetes has to do with. That's what the theme is. Like that's not really important to me personally. But I love- You don't care about my room time? I don't, I actually, I'm really interested in a lot of technological things, but I am showing up regularly in the Kubernetes community because I found it's got a really interesting problem of scale of human interaction. And that's what I was after. It's also like the kindest community I've ever been a part of. The most thoughtful and like how people come together, really well structured in some of its foundational principles. So I'm like, I wanted to solve that kind of communication at scale challenge by being part of this community. This technology, thank goodness, a bunch of really smart people are also really interested in that and fixing that, or there'd be nothing to show up to. But it's like, I get to be, I think about it like there's this huge shark and I'm one of those like little fish that's on the side just trying to help clean things up as the big shark is moving along. I'm helping the overall system, even though I'm not part of that big main part of it. And that really resonates for me. So if a particular technology doesn't speak to you, don't stop at that and be like, well, that's not for me. You can find a lot of cool ways to contribute. I think that's important, like speaking from like, if a student is, you know, if you're watching this talk, even it's a student track. So finding out what you like, you know, like exploration is great way to do that. So, you know, it might be over. I'm like, okay, do I do web development, mobile development, do I do machine learning, blockchain or DevOps or cloud or containers. Too many choices, Kunal. Too many choices, right? So that's what I'm saying. That's the entire point. That's the exactly the thing that was in my mind as well. So when I started, like I explored various ways and I'm like, okay, I tried mobile development for a month. I don't like it. I'm not gonna do it, right? So I got involved in chaos. I was like, okay, I like this. So I think like it's also great in terms of spreading awareness and because open source is much more than coding, right? There's a community that I'm a part of. They say collaboration first, code second. So open source, people often ask me, can you suggest me some beginner friendly open source projects you work on? I think like you can directly jump on to these bigger projects like Kubernetes, even as a beginner, because there are beginner friendly issues for a reason. And there are students in the community who are participating this like the CNCF mentorship programs for even students and working professionals in short people who are new to the community. So to answer the questions that people ask quite often in the community, just the only way, the best way to get involved is get involved. And let's talk a bit more about that. How do we actually get involved? How do you actually get started? So speaking of weekly meetings, I know, Matt, you host the marketing meetings, right? Every week or and stuff. So would you like to share your experiences how over the course of the time you have seen new people getting involved and some of the practices that they follow? Sure, yeah. As you look at showing up to meetings for a big open source project, I guess I'd break it out into two sort of things. You're like, I wanna get involved. Do I have time or does my time zone align well enough for I can show up for in-person meetings that may be a no to start and that's okay. Don't stop there. Like find ways of contributing online as much as we value the real time collaboration and conversation. Projects that are really looking to get that scale of something like Kubernetes, they're trying to optimize for asynchronous communication, which is a fancy way of saying we don't have to do this. We don't have to have a meeting in order to get something done. So learning principles of how you do project management asynchronously or just looking through a project's open issues and seeing if you can solve something. Like that's a real good deed that will count as a contribution. That's significant. But let's say you do wanna show up to a meeting and you are gonna start participating. It's really getting it on your calendar and showing up and continuing to show up multiple weeks in a row. I keep reminding people for large projects, it's less about how significant your contribution is and it's more about how consistent it can be. So if you can sustain a small amount of contribution for a long time, large open source projects will be better off for it. There's a term for the other way it's called a fly-by contribution. And no matter how thoughtful the code is and how powerful it is, like open source integrations, it takes longer than just like a poll requests drops and then you're done. It's like, well, did you get it in the right format? Is the commit in the right way? Is it gonna be mergeable? Or even the code aside, like you could be very helpful on one week, but if I can't count on you two weeks from now, it can be challenging unless we have some sort of project scopes that's got a beginning, middle and end. So my one part of advice there is get it on your calendar if you want to start showing up, give yourself something, like don't sign up for it unless you feel like you could keep going for three to four weeks, I think is a good minimum is in my head and, or just be really upfront. Be like, hey, I'm just kind of shopping around trying to get to know this project. I'll be here this week. Hope to see you again, but no guarantees. And that sort of framing is, it's really helpful for the project leads and Chris, what were you gonna add on, jump in? Well, like I have that constant problem of, for a while it was saying yes too much, but now it's like, I know that I can only, spend so much extra free time doing work in the community. So I have to be very specific with, what I'm doing week to week, right? And right now I am on the comms team for the upcoming contributor summit for KubeCon that you're hearing this talk at. So I'm realizing that like other things that I do sometimes day to day or new things that come in, right? Like trying to help a family get out of Afghanistan. I was focusing on two weeks ago and for two weeks straight. So I wasn't able to contribute to the community as much. So I let people know that internally so that they would kind of understand, you know, like, hey, Chris is doing this right now. He might not be responsive, but he's able to help if you really need him kind of thing, right? So just kind of signaling that to people in advance is super helpful, but also, right? Like you have to be mindful of your own time and your responsibilities because I've gone, I've over rotated at times in certain positions to contributing too much to the community and not enough to work, you know? So you've got to find that balance. And the metric you use, Matt, like three to four meetings, if you can make those meetings, you'll pick up work during them. And, you know, you might be able to accomplish it during the meeting or it could be something that, you know, you work on it for a week or two, you update the PR or the project board saying, hey, I've got something ready. And, you know, or the team looks at it, we get it merged in and off we go, right? So yeah, that's a very, very astute point, Matt. Thank you for that. Yeah. I think it's, I think what's important with that too is like just understand that, you know, this is everything, everyone's doing this in their free time. And so whatever you can give is totally welcome and everyone will be happy about it. And, but if you're just up front and say like, I just want to attend the meetings and kind of, and some people don't turn their cameras on and some people prefer to type and all that's okay. Like all that's fine. We respect everyone's, you know, comfort level of how involved they want to be. Some people are, you know, English isn't their first language. And so that also has to be taken into consideration. There are also lots of different ways for folks for whom English is their, you know, second or third language to get involved, translating documentation, localizing different things. That's huge value. So like there is, it's, it's once again, just to open it up more in terms of possibilities. But I think what everyone's saying here too is, just be realistic first of all with yourself. And then you can be more realistic with others. Sometimes we see very, very high energy levels. And, and, but you also have to remember, you know, sustainability. You're either studying or you're working on all those different things that you have to balance. But just find out what works for you. And, and I think also just to understand that being a non-code contributor doesn't necessarily mean having, you know, a live streaming on Twitch or things like that. Everybody has to find their own way. Look at your skill set. One thing I want to emphasize as well too with young people that I find a lot is that there's a sort of assumption that I'm young, I don't have experience. Maybe in some things you're less experienced. But if you've lived on this earth for 18, 20 years, you've had lots of experiences. The question is kind of what Chris and Matt were mentioning about, you know, documenting that stuff. Like whether it's your website, whether it's your Twitter, whether it's your LinkedIn, you start writing down all the different things that you've learned, all the different people you've interacted with. That is a skill, you know, like that is, that is, that counts. Like that just as someone's 40 years old doesn't mean they've really been a sponge for everything. Right. So, but it's not necessarily the case. So don't, don't sell yourself short just because of, of your age. You definitely can contribute. It just, it may take a little bit of time to find a way how to match those things. What Casem was mentioning earlier as well as about, you might have a skill set that might seem completely unrelated as mine. You know, once again, as, as an outsider first getting in and realizing, well, no, I can contribute because I can help out with video production. I can encourage other people to participate. I can also tell people, like, don't worry about your technical level. My technical level is definitely lower. For sure. I was doing a live stream. A slide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was doing a live, I was doing a live stream with Piyanka a couple of weeks ago. And I was like, it was two years ago that I learned how to take a screenshot on my phone. All right. Wow. That's fair. No, that's cool though. That's really cool. Yeah. No, I just wanted to add onto that part because the inexperience is a unique skill that you only have for a limited amount of time. And it's taken me my whole career to really recognize that. Like I value inexperience as much as I value expertise because expertise, like that's the only way you're gonna get really deep into something and be able to fix complex problems. But if you have expertise, you are too far away from inexperience to be a great representative of that new user experience. And guess what? There will always be more new users than there will be long time users. Just by like the natural funnel of usage. So we always, always need new people joining projects and saying like, hey, I don't get why this works that way, that's a gift to a community. To acknowledge that like, I don't know how it works. And if you are willing, and you have time to stick around and help us resolve the documentation or explain it to the next person that shows up, that is a huge contribution that you should absolutely consider a huge part of your career. I've got to say, go ahead, Kazim. And I want to add onto this. We've been talking about community and there've been a lot of points that have come up in all of these conversations that we've been having about community. And I wonder if people are imagining it the way that we do. Because I think when I was getting started with open source, I thought an open source community is a very different thing. It's its own unique area. But it's really just like the communities that you're familiar with. Your school, your hometown, any volunteer groups that you may be a part of. If you think about those groups in your communities, you have people who have been there for a long time who know the ins and outs of the school or the organization or whatever it is you're working with. You have the students at the school who are still learning and they're contributing to the overall school in all sorts of different ways. But they serve a certain role. And there are lots of people in between who do all kinds of different things to help out. And that's exactly what we're talking about here. This is a community full of people who are just gathered around this one thing of Kubernetes and they're all trying to help out. We're all learning together. And there are folks who have been there for a while who can help mentor. But it's really just the same as the communities that you've become familiar with just in a new space. And something I also want to point out here is that a lot of folks have gotten experience, especially over the last couple of years, with working together online. So a lot of these communities I'm talking about, usually you would interact with them on person, but you've had to interact with them online for the last couple of years. And that might have been a really rough experience. But the open source community of Kubernetes and a lot of other open source communities have been online for a long time. And we've run up against a lot of the issues that come with being online and being global. Like we talked about time zones earlier. So you can bring some of the skills that you've learned about working virtually to these online communities and you'll learn new ones as well. Most definitely. And I think like from a student's point of view, they might be having this question as well, like what might be like the prerequisites? So we talked about Git and stuff and it's highly possible someone, even working professionals are not familiar with Git. Just totally fine, by the way. So what do we mean by when we're saying like marketing as code and how much actually like the prerequisite is required? And speaking of like, I think Chris can answer this because he said that he's been doing the coding work since high school. So go ahead, Chris. So yeah, I mean, just because I've been doing this for a while doesn't mean I'm an expert at it, right? Like I wanna make that abundantly clear. No one's an expert at Git, not even Linus Torvalds anymore, right? Like it's so vast. No one's an expert at every bit of Kubernetes because it's so vast. Like go to l.cncf.io, you'll see what I'm talking about. The Kubernetes land or the cloud native landscapes, massive. So like there's a minimum level of knowledge that you kinda have to have with Git and markdown files. So if you've ever seen a readme.md file on a GitHub page, that is markdown that's being rendered as HTML. You just need to know the markdown part which is actually not that bad. Like if you wanna link to something, there's a certain syntax you use, it's pretty simple. The Git stuff is the hard stuff and there's actually an XKCD comic that I refer to frequently when teaching people Git is don't be afraid to save your progress, like save that one file you worked on, blow away the repo, pull it down and then restart the process of editing, right? Like copy your file back into the repo. Like you can't be afraid of that because you touch something wrong and something else breaks in the chain, that is expected, we help people with that. And for folks for whom this might be their first KubeCon, which I truly wish are a lot of people because last year we had so many folks joining in. And you might be wondering, dude, what is KubeNet is? All of this is fine, but what is KubeNet is and why is it so important? What's all the fuss about? So yeah, Matt, would you like to add your two cents on that? Good God, that's a massive one. And I'm trying to remember again, like being deep in the subjects, pulling back out to student mindset. So if you're new to this, here's how I approach it. For people deep in this, I apologize for its inaccuracies. But in a nutshell, like a lot of us talk about cloud computing and we've all had some sort of service that sinks across the cloud. So if you're participating in a community like KubeNet is, we're talking to the people that care about how that plumbing works. It's the nerdy stuff, the layers below. I think about like, you've got the pretty stuff above the ground and we're living below ground on the internet seeing how the pieces fit together. So in that space, there's sort of been a paradigm shift towards something called containers. You can Google that after. And to make containers run at scale, like the main project, the number one project in the world to do so is KubeNet is. So to contribute to KubeNet is to contribute to, I believe the second largest open source project in the world right now. And it is to influence like the experience of pretty much every major business in the world as they figure out how to run containers at scale. So it's one of those ones, like if you fix a documentation bug in the Kubernetes community, you just influence hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. And if you like the economic side, billions of dollars in corporate spend. So I think of it from that angle of like, if you enjoy learning how like, how the nuts and bolts work, how the how the gerbils get information across the internet to the other end, like Kubernetes is a fun place to be. What would you all add? But now the next question you might be wondering is, okay, panel, that is fine. Very cool stuff, billions of dollars, millions of people, all these things, that's great. But what am I gonna get out of it in terms of, let's say skills or experience? Because I'm a student, I'm looking for enhancing my resume or whatever connections and internships and all these things. So maybe Kasselin, you can add on to that. Those things that Matt mentioned are all great reasons to get involved, being able to say on your resume that I contributed to Kubernetes, should raise some eyebrows just about anywhere that you apply these days. Most businesses, like we said, are using Kubernetes. So if you have some expertise in that area, and by the way, Kubernetes is eight years old now, and it's grown in popularity immensely very quickly. The crowd is gonna be like, eh. So that means that a lot of the businesses today that are starting to use Kubernetes do not have built in experienced bases of employees who know how to use Kubernetes. You could come in and know more than people who have been working at that company for 15 years about this new thing that they now have to adopt. So you can play a really important role in these companies. So that's a huge benefit is developing the skills of just understanding Kubernetes and it can give you some great insight into how a lot of businesses work. Because like we said, a lot of businesses are starting to use this because they see that it reflects their business models. But also it's a great opportunity for networking. We've talked a lot about how this is a community kind of the open source community of Kubernetes is kind of an expression of our social networks. And so you'll get connected with a lot of people who are already working in the industry, a lot of other students or people who are transitioning into the industry. You can make a lot of great connections that way and show off your work. It's great to be able to point to the Kubernetes website and say, hey, I helped with that documentation or to KubeCon and be like, I helped with the SIG that they're talking about or something like that. So it's a great way to be able to show off your work and to make connections as well. Most definitely. And there are many full-time roles as well that sort of like relate to what people do in community. You can do technical writing, for example, you can do developer advocacy where your role is, developer advocate is a developer's best friend. So you're working closely with the developers and people who use the project helping them get started running events and writing and all these other things. Now, the last question people may have is like, how do we actually get started? So, but I think you can answer this, you know. Yeah, pretty many ways to get started. There's not only one way to get started. Something that you can all mention a while back is like, what's your best, how do you learn best? Do you learn best by listening? Do you learn best by watching? Do you learn best by reading a combination of those things? We've already mentioned some options about attending a SIG meeting. If you literally go and type CNCF and any technology that you're interested in, you'll probably find somewhere to go. You also have the CNCF Slack that you can hop in and ask and people will be happy to help you out. You've got tons of podcasts out there, whether it's from Dan Popp, from Crig Boxx, a very, very long list. Cast on as a show on Cognitive TV, Chris is super active as well, doing live streams. So there is no shortage of options. Don't be overwhelmed by the options. Just understand that you might start with one and maybe you'll switch to another. Do a little bit of homework first. Don't be in a rush. This is a long-term process. And then once you have a little bit of background, then you're gonna get some ideas. You'll get some of the vocabulary. There's also some great resources from DIMMS. We can link, happy to link that when we're doing this live in the Q&A. Let's basically start out with those things. You'll get more familiar with that kind of vocabulary. And then you'll also have questions. Oh, I saw this. What does this mean? How does this connect to this? Why does this do that? Then you'll be able to start natural conversations and connect with people. You'll realize though, and I wanna go back to what Matt mentioned earlier, I'm not here because I'm passionate about container orchestration, but I am very excited about the fact that that is the reason that brings me together with these incredible people and that we're all participating to build this together. If you think about the vast number of people that are all here together building something, imagine they were building a house or they were building a city. All that collective energy going into one place is extremely exciting. It's extremely rewarding. And like I said, it's what really sparks that viral generosity that will make you go on and do the same to invite others to have the same experience you're having. Most definitely. Well, that was it for this panel. And I hope you all have a great cube gone. There are so many other amazing talks in this student track. So as we, you know, in order to sum up, the best way to get involved is just to get involved because all the other things will come by its own, the mentorship and guidance. We're gonna wrap this talk up with a nice rap from Bart. So hope you enjoyed it and yeah. You want me to rap? You sure? I mean, I guess I could maybe, maybe, you know, improvise something to stood. Just give me a second, you know, need to get maybe set up a little bit. Let's see what I can do. Let's see if I can do this. Yeah. Yo, how to rock, how to roll, how to click, how to scroll, how to get your contributions non-code. That's how I roll. Different continents with different competence. We auto-scale and I'm just breaking down walls. No hop of fan, still a passive present tense. Cause our presence is immense. Why settle for dance when your skills convey the rent? But you know, with these people, nah, they ain't cheap old bad ass with class like Mr. Melvin, Van Peebles, Kunalke, teamed up with Kassel Neft along with Chordavik Chris. It broke Bergen's most death. Was it a block about nodes, pause and lock, potent decrease, release, Kusavitha, a nod. You know, we're packing, we're slacking, never lacking on the dancing with skills. You know, we're tracking all the different with you feel the gaps and stories that needed to be told. Hacking Kubernetes with machetes cooler than cold. Inexperience is a gift and it's giving that receipt. You're the reason we're all here. Motivation of belief in the power of empowering the next generation. So set it in case we reveal your revelation. Yo, contributor experience, much loved all the students out there. Check it out, getting involved. Thanks so much for attending today. We'll see y'all in a sec, take care.