 You can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. We've got literally one road that separates us from another estate and we just started having some crazy wars with them. We would have shootouts like every other week. I'm not talking like little shootouts. There will be machine guns being let off. The bouncer got shot straight through his head. I was standing next to him with my brother. He's going right through his nut. And the first thing I've done obviously I've just walked straight over his dead body. I've been in Belmarsh myself for murder charges. I've not really spoken to anyone about my murder charge or what I went to prison for. My brother's been prisoned for two murder charges. It's only like a month ago. I wish I wasn't even here. I was thinking, I don't even want to wake up in the morning. Why am I here? Yeah, I was having them thoughts. I was having them thoughts, man. You're here to be flagged. The crime I went to prison for, what I got the 17 years for, it was on Judge Rinder. He'd done Judge Rinder's crime stories week. And it's known to us he's the security guard's wife talking and in tears. You realise it affects a lot of people but at the time you don't. You're just thinking quick, full and grand. I put my mum through hell. Getting the doors kicked in every other week, selling drugs or for armed robbery. I'm pleased to put my mum on the floor or put my little brother on the floor. My little brother's nothing like me. He's autistic. So to keep putting him through things like that, I feel like I'm part of the reason why he is the way he is. My little brother doesn't even come out of his room. Ben, where are you? Today's guest. Where's Clark? How are you, brother? I'm all good, man. So happy to be here, man. How do you say you, brother? Fascinating story. I spent nearly 20 years in prison. Robin shootings, lost family members and friends to murder. Robin banks with your dad. It's pretty fucked up shit if I'm honest, bro. But that is your life story and you're here to tell it. First and foremost, how are you? I'm good, man. I just got caught in a rain. I had my hair rolled down. It was actually... My hair was actually looking slick before I got here. I'm happy to be here, man. I'm thankful. How do you feel about telling your story? Do you know what? I'm looking forward to it. Every time I look at you on the grandma phone, I feel like you're a genuine person, you know? Yeah, thank you, brother. So I appreciate me coming on there. Yeah, man. Everybody deserves a chance to tell their story. Everybody deserves a chance to make changes. But it's all down to the individual. Where you want to go in life and what you want to achieve. Life is a tough fucking slog, man. We do make stupid choices. There's no doubt we'll clarify that as in a few years on. But that is life. We are who we are. But all we can do is try and be the best version that we can be today, tomorrow and for the future. But I'll just go back to the start of my guests. Where you grew up? How it all began? Well, I grew up in Batsy South London. I grew up in a crime-related family, like brother and dad, heavily involved in arm robberies and drugs. Dad spent most of his years in prison. Brother in and out of prison also for drugs. I was only going to go down the same road as them. I didn't know nothing else and I've not worked a day in my life. I've always kind of grafted that sort of graft anyway. Arm robbery, wires and selling drugs. It's only now I've been released. I feel I need to make a change. I have a door, so I feel I need to make that change now. How about you at school without a dad? School was a difficult one. I'm not very good at reading and writing. I was kind of picked on by the teachers. They would know full well I wouldn't know the answer to a question, so they would pick me up the classroom and be like, Lewis, what's the answer to this? I'd be like, mate, fuck off you mug. He clearly knows I don't know the answer, so I felt like I was picked on. Where we kept moving from London to Surrey, then Surrey back to London, my school was kind of interrupted. I got kicked out on many occasions. I left school when I was 15 years old. I didn't leave with any qualifications. But school was an enjoyable thing for me. I felt like I didn't really fit in with anyone, so that wasn't for me. Does that make you rebel straight away? Because you didn't feel like you weren't good at school, you didn't know the answers to a lot of stuff. There comes more pressure on you? It does. I feel like I learned so much more from one-on-one support, whereas we're in a class of like 20 to 30 people. And I'll be honest, I copied the whole of my maths book throughout the whole of that year in school. I didn't know the answer to anything. I had a few friends who used to sit next to me, so I used to just copy all of their work all the way through. I don't get to take no exams or anything. How many years was your dad in your life, when you were 15? I was 15. It's crazy. How many years was it? I don't know. I'm going to be 36 soon. I'd say my dad's done at least 20 of them in prison easily. He's still wearing on his parole now, which he should get thumbs up. Fingers crossed. But you know, one thing I'd say about my dad, even when he's been in prison majority of my life, I've never gone without. So there's been birthdays, Christmases. He would always make sure I'd get a birthday card or Christmases all the way up to I was like 16. I'd get presents. Then after that, I had to just do my own thing. Was he out much? Was he around you in the first 15 years and then out of school? Not really. Not really. He was in prison. He was in prison himself for like arm rubries. I know he had a 10 and a half when I was in, for my secondary school years. And before that, he just finished a seven and a half. I think that might have been for a heart and gardens job. And obviously he's just got a life sentence on his last one. What was it like going to visits as a kid? As a kid, because I used to go and visit my uncles. As young as I can remember, man, like two, three, four. I remember you still was playing around with your little toys and enjoyed it at that time as a kid. But then obviously you go, do you think how fucking deranged you actually are? How was your visits? My prison visits with dad, they was great when I was there. But the journeys to actually get to some of these prisons, like as you know, some of these prisons are far out. So your mom dragging you on the tubes, the trains, the buses, it felt like it was the whole day. Then in time I got to the visits, I'd be happy to see dad. And then I'll just fall asleep on the way home. Dad used to draw me little silly pictures every weekend stuff. I still got some of the pictures indoors on that. My dad is really supportive. I love him to bits. I can't stress that enough. He always used to push me to get a trade. But if he's trying to push me to get a trade, kind of the only thing I'd say, dad, you need to be kind of leading by example. And you need to be working. And then maybe I might want to do that also. Yeah. So people try to get somebody to stop drinking or taking drugs, but they're still fucking taking it. It don't make sense. Don't make any sense. You can't understand your dad trying to do the right thing, not doing the same mistakes he'd done. But again, like you say, he's not leading by example. You're only becoming a product of his environment. I used to look up to dad. I used to think he was a sooth man. He'd come back with like, woods of money and be like, Lou, you can keep all the fivers out of that one. I'd be like, touch. I used to think he was a sooth man. I used to proper look up to him and that, you know. But we've had some like, recently we've become a lot closer. Like I think he looks at me now and he regrets a lot of things. I can see it in his eyes. He don't say so that much. But what he's been saying over the last years, when we finish our phone call, be like, Lou, I love you. Whereas he wouldn't really say that as much, Granddad. Whereas now I feel like something's happened now. And he's like, Lou, I love you now. Dim words. This means so much to me now. Because doing the trade that he does, he's got to be cold-hearted because he can lose his life at any moment. So you've got to be so cold towards the system, so cold towards life, so cold to letting anybody in, even your own kids. And that's so sad because it's not, I always say this, I don't have your mother's bank robbers, drug lords. Some of them are the nicest fucking people I've ever spoke to and I still so kind. And they're always there to support me. I'll be there to support them. It's not necessarily that bad person because you do bad things. It's trying to understand why they made the choices that they made. And you'll tend to see a lot come from broken homes. A lot struggled in school. They felt like a loner. They felt left out. So they had to act. We do all have choices as well. But I get that and understand there's always victims as well. But it's fucking hard when, because it's your father and you love him. Other people say, oh, he's a bad man. What he's done this and done that. But you might not see that. And they might not see that. It's so weird the way somebody can love someone, but yet somebody else can hate them. Exactly that. I've been actually banged up with my dad. I've actually had him for a soul mate. And it's like he's built for prison. I've never, ever heard him one day about being in prison. Every day we wake up at six in the morning. He's really annoying in the mornings as well. Yeah, wake up and start whisking his tea on that. But why do you have to hit the spoon so hard on a cup when you're making a cup of tea? I'm pretty easy to do it to my own purpose, but it got me in a good routine. But it's like every day I wake up, I'd be happy to be there. It's like it was a little break for him for a little while, you know. He'd enjoy it. What was his parents like? I think his dad was really strict. My nan, my nan loved him to bits. I think he was my nan's favorite, to be honest. I didn't really know my granddad. He died at an early age, so I don't really remember him too tough. Yeah. How is that for a father and son to be on the same sale? Did you ever look at that and think that's just pretty wrong? Yeah, yeah, of course. But I think for him it is harder for him. With me it is alright. It wasn't as bad for me, but I think with him, I think people used to probably ask me questions. Oh, tell what? What are you doing in jail with your son? And that must have been hard for him to actually take him at your nan. Yeah, because all that, this is why I would probably tell you, I love you a lot. Everything comes to our head. Everything comes to the surface where, wait a minute, I said, right. And probably at that time, he's probably, you bought a bond and a connection and I say, oh, every day, like pranks. Like, I remember he made a hole in the bottom of my coke can. He leaked all my coke out of the bottom of the can. I was saving this can of coke for a match of the day. Anyway, he's filled it back up with water, managed to super glue the bottom of it somehow. I've clipped it. That's been strange. It's not made no fizz. I started drinking. I had my dad's on the other side of the bar on his bed, absolutely in bits. That's like, Dad, you won't go. I said, look before to that. He's like, I drank it though. I was like, yeah, cheers, Dad. How long did you set us up with each other? Just over a year. We've done the first, I've done my first three years in high down, but we've done the first year together in a cell. It was all good, but we needed our own space, as you do. That's been a grown man. You need your own space. Yeah. Do you feel as if you've got a connection? I think we started getting more of a connection because we met back up when we got to D-Cat. So he's done, he's therapeutic side because he had to go to a prison called Grendan. So you've got to sit around like ex-arm-robbers, murderers, even rapists and all the nonces and stuff. So you've got to sit around this table and you've got to listen to these guys' story as much as you're not going to like him talking about whatever. It's hard for you to take care to do four years of that. To put up with that and then he come and met me in D-Cat and gave him a big hug, that sort of mystery. And then he actually moved back in my cell again and he's back to his old antics, making cups of tea in the morning, making up all this noise. Yeah, Grendan's a mad place because I'm good friends with no days of Smith. I love Naughty Bits, man, that he changed his life and he says it was so hard to do that that people saying, why are you going there and this and that? But the guy changed his life. Now he's a book offer and I fucking love the guy. He's just a good 100% loyal to the core man, individual. No, no's proper. I think he done one of his first armed robberies with my dad. Have they? If I recall, yeah. But they've all been connected, haven't they? I met him at an old Blemian Rockers pub, actually, no. He's with my uncle John and my dad's obviously called Terry. Yeah, we all met up at a pub and he gave me a book and just signed it for me and that. I think all the armed robbery community, they're all linked up somehow. No came out of prison, never gave him any money. Just got a plastic bag out McDonald's, put it over his head and done a banky sale. He used to do banks himself. Yeah, he did, yeah. He's a nice fellow though. He's genuine now. He's a genuine fellow man. Love on my bits, mate. Love on my bits. So what is, did you join a gang? Usually you tend to see a lot of people, father figures, aren't they? You join a gang if you're like a part of a family. Yeah, so with me, the gang situation was a bit different. I was always, as a 14 year old, I started selling drugs and I slowly started drifting into the gang sort of life cause all my friends were about it. And I think it's like early, I'd say early 2002, you know, all the way up into like 2010. The gang was called G Street, all tree one. And we was one of the biggest gangs in South London at the time. And what was crazy for me, like there wasn't many white guys about this, literally me and my brother and two other white guys around another 100 blood fillers. So we all used to stand up. And I've always made decent money from a kid like selling like green and stuff like that, you know. So I used to, as a kid, I used to have a stupid chain and bracelet. Absolutely ridiculous when I look at them, the pictures back now, it's really embarrassing and cringy. But it all starts with people hating on you, you know. So we've got literally one road what separates us from another estate. And we just started having some crazy wars with them. We would have shootouts like every other week. I'm not talking like little shootouts. There will be machine guns being let off. I should have brought some pictures with me. They're still dense in these wooden doors where someone jumped out and we've all had to hide behind a little concrete wall. All we can see is the smoke just coming out of the gun. I've nearly died at least five or six times through shootouts. And probably the worst occasion I had was when my brother was actually shot five times and my really close friend, there's both hit five times. Someone pulled up on a motorbike. I don't know who did it. I don't know what kind of the bike was. I was already on the phone. Once the first shot hit my brother, I was already on the phone to the ambulance. And I was like, my brother's dead. Can you come and pick him up? Here's where we are. Because I was hiding behind a metal dustbin. But as I'm hiding, I can see they actually got off the bike and they continued to shoot my brother. So like the first shot got my brother and his Achilles. And he was in these slippers at the time and it was summer, you know. And then all the other shots started going higher and higher up his back. There to leave a couple of the bullets in his back because it was really close to his spine. My other pal was hitting his shoulder, his little finger. The poor fella had a broken leg at the time. I shouldn't laugh, but he had a broken leg at the time. He's been done twice in his poor broken leg. But he's on a pushback. So he's using one leg to roll. Because he's managed to roll all the way down to the bottom of the state and then collapse. But when the bike drove off, that's when I run up to my brother. I started stripping all these clothes off to see where he's been hit. And then I just laid on top of him and covered up all the holes into like the ambulance got there. Obviously the police arrived first. The ambulance come after. And I knew it was half going to be all right because he's making stupid jokes because where I pulled his clothes off, he's got like a little growth on his grin. And it looks like a rice krispie. And he's like, look, you fucking know they're going to see the rice krispie on my leg. I was like, tell me, you've just been shot five times. And he's like, just go and take the money out the arse. All right, cool. Got everything sorted or whatever. But when I come back, it's like the police weren't interested. The first thing they said to me now is when you're going to go back over that side and do your thing now. So I said, fuck off, mate. So none of the boys got interviewed over or nothing. The only thing I was, the only thing that caught me up in later years is it kept replaying in my head what happened. And I'm only starting to get help for it now. But it's in the same location like the bouncer got shot on his head. And these things just started to become normal for me. And I actually had to go on Google and Google these events. I'm thinking, am I actually making these things up? Am I going mad? I actually Googled these things. I was like, oh my God, I was actually there and it did happen. The bouncer got shot straight through his head. I was standing next to him with my brother. He's going right through his nut. And the first thing I'd done, obviously, I've just walked straight over his dead body. The youngsters who were standing next to me because he was taking money at the door, they started going through his pockets. I'm thinking, fuck, this has been nutted. I knew they were going through his pockets. There was a bar and a couple of people were hitting their legs and stuff. But these things are slowly starting to catch up with me, but I'm getting help with it now. Yeah, do you get Nate Mills with that? Yeah, like sometimes, especially if motorbikes pull up next to me, I've done some crazy things where I've grabbed my powers like steering, or if a bike pulls up next to me in the traffic lights and I've gone to get them off the road and that, you know? No one ever got Nick for it. No one don't know we've done it or anything like that. To this day? To this day. So the only thing I'd say to that is I don't even want him getting Nick to ever done it. I don't even want you to get Nicked. I just don't want you to ever do that again. How is that, though, seeing your brother now? You think he's dead? Were you so cold to it that you thought, did you freeze or were you just in control? I was in control of it. Weirdly, I was really comfortable with the whole situation. But it's caught up with me years later. Where I sat in the cell for so long, things were just replaying, and do you know what's funny? Me and my older brother have never sat down and we've never had that conversation about how he feels about that situation. Because he's been through the wars. He's been stabbed five times. I've probably been stabbed once. But we've never sat down. Sometimes I think, let me find my brother. I just want to cuddle him sometimes and let you know. But I've never done that. Do you think you're getting so after as you got older? In a positive way, though, but you're coming... I feel so. You understand people's feelings and emotions, because you're getting through that time of your life. You've got to be cold. You've got to be ruthless. Because if you're not ruthless, you show weakness. I was very cold back then, you know. I don't know. I don't know what it was. Because obviously we've all done a lot of shit growing up. It was tit for tat back then. They've come over here. We're going over there. They've lost about 10 people to either a shooting or a knife crime. Whereas we've lost a few people as well. I'm at that point now where so much has happened from 2002 to like 2012. I'm willing to like, as much as I'm sad about everything, I'm happy to just leave it there. And if I see one of them, I'll be like, we don't have to say hello or we don't have to do this. Let's just walk past each other, you know, and nothing don't need to go on now. Do you think it'll still be on if anybody cross paths? 20 years later? Maybe. I was in prison with a lot of these guys. And I was on, you know, I was on a wing with them for about six months. When they first come on a wing, I was a massive, I was about 16 stone at the time, bull dead. I looked like a bit of a fuck. I've grown my hair now. Quite suits me, I thought as well. But you know, like months have gone by now and I'm seeing these guys and I'm doing the gym list. And they'll be like, I'll put them on the gym firm wherever they're talking at. I'll call. But after I'll be like, you want to go on the gym mate? Before you know it, you're putting your thumb up. I ended up having conversations with some of these people and they didn't even understand why was we having these wars with you in the first place? I actually got on so well with some of them. I fell out with a couple of my close friends over this. Reason being, I'm six years into a prison sentence. I've not heard from you in six years. The first thing you've thrown me and say are Lou, you know things there? Have you moved to him yet? I've not heard from you in six years. And the first thing you come on my phone and say is, why haven't you got him yet? Why haven't you got him touched yet? And I've kind of, we had a fallout over it, but we saw it out now. But there's loads of new little gangs up and coming now who was underneath us. And they still got their little dramas going on. I'm trying to get it in their heads. You lot, my friends doing 33 sentences and that now. I've been in Belmarsh myself for murder charges. I've not really spoken to anyone about my murder charge or what I went to prison for. My brother's been prisoned for two murder charges. We've got not guilty's, but to be in amongst them sort of people who are doing 30 year sentences ain't nice. You know, every single one of them you've got guilty, all regret doing it. They all regret their actions. Yeah. Because like you say, what are you fighting over? Post codes. Post codes. Really? Who gives a fuck? Post codes. Do you know what I mean? When you think about the families that have been broken, put through hell and like my mum's lost two brothers to murder. So listen, my family's caused a lot of pain as well, but I understand that the pain that she goes through every night is probably still not so much now that I'm doing good for myself. It takes a lot of pressure off her. But it always repeats itself that a smell or a song or something. No, he's a motorbike. It triggers something. Something tricky or something. You've been a fucking having the best day of your life and then you're not having a good day. So there's a smell takes you back to something that triggers that negative thought. And that's mad because Music's dangerous for that. There's certain chains that come on and be like, do you know what? I'm just going to go and fucking get him. Yeah. And then I'd Because the music to the emotion that you'd felt that day is why you're connected to the song because there's a trauma happens that day. If you remember that song that's played that day, that's the connection to it. So you remember the trauma to the connection to the song. So if you're some people going hoarding, they'll hear a holiday song. Everything they hear at five years, remember the time they went on that holiday? Yeah, yeah. You hear that song. So the music's a powerful, powerful word, powerful everything. Everything's powerful externally, but it's just trying to find the right mix where you're not going fucking crazy and doing bad stuff to cause that. Yeah. I mean, when you're up for a murder charge, where you're in demand. I mean, take you back to 2005 when I first went to prison. So I was doing cash and transit robberies. It's a really embarrassing story, but I'm going to give it to you anyway. So do you remember when the London Tube bombings were going off? Yeah. So all the train stations were on high alert and stuff, wasn't it? All seven, I think. Do you remember, was it? Yeah, I think it was all seven. Anyway, this train station was on high alert for some reason. I didn't clock but the cash was filling up and I need to get them on the last run cause I know what the last run is going to be to do someone. Anyway, I've gone in the train station. There was about 30 old built-on police already in there. But by this time I've already grabbed the cassette. I'm looking and I'm like, oh my God. I looked at my code and I said, we've got to go. Started running. I frisbeed the cassette back at them cause you know, they're quite heavy some of them, you know, frisbeed their legs. Anyway, I've got back there. My driver's not in the car. So I looked at my code and I said, where the fuck is someone? So looking around this fucking cunt is over there having a piss. But I don't have time to wait for him to get back over cause the police are still running behind me so I've had to run to the end of this road. Come in the middle of the road and then I'm telling my friend come and pick me up now but the police can see me doing this but they're not aware the driver's there. Anyway, another bull vans come behind me. They've nicked me and as I'm in handcuffs my driver's drove past in the ringer. He just looked at us like that was like your mum. Like that's what I said your mum. He carried on driving and he got away anyway. And in court where I was doing this to tell my friend come, the police said that I was doing the money sign to them. There's like oh I've got money sort of thing these times I'm telling my driver to come. Cause it was so like it didn't look very well planned. They only gave me three years so me and my other pal we got three months to 18 months after 18 months I come out for like six weeks I was on obo straight away and I got I got back grafted selling weed and that and I didn't realise there's watching my house so when I put my hand through my gate I had a gate and then my door then another gate so they've watched me pass weed through the gate it's only like two and a cure of weed anyway they stopped my pal around the corner searched them they found the weed on my phone call Lou they've just stopped so and so so I put all my gear and my duffel bags got out of the back door went two minutes late my house has gone through anyway I've handed myself in for it he's ended up getting a 70 pound fine for the tourney queue they've gave me 10 months in prison because I was on the 80 month licence but as I was about to be released from that I was charged for a murder so I continued my remontime they moved me like from Wandsworth, Brixton they accidentally sent me to High Point by accident for a week then I went to Belmarsh so I'd done the rest of the time in Belmarsh waiting for my trial I think I'd like about a 10 week trial or something like that and it was clear to see where the jury was going with it so I was I was very confident anyway but to be accused of something like that it stays with you for a long time and that as well you know yeah being accused like I say once you're accused it's hard to get rid of that label but no matter if you're guilty or not guilty especially the life you lead so nobody's going to ever believe a thing you say and it was only a couple years before that my brother's been went for a whole murder trial as well for a shooting but lucky enough like they see sense on that one because I think my brother got stabbed in his neck or something like that so he passed out he was unaware of what happened after that I think someone got shot straight after that so I'm not so my brother might even come and tell his story one day so I'm going to leave that one for him How old is your brother? He's two years older than me Did he ever tell you don't make the same mistakes because your dad was it or was it just he was just so alike that it was normal we were grafting like seriously as a 15 and 16 17 year old I'll show you I'll send you a picture there we was grafting we was doing we was going through like 20 boxes a week it was just different because it's a short age gap it's like you maybe having a wee brother like 10, 15 just now you would tell him no but if it was so close to your age 34, 35 they'd just felt normal yeah that's what I mean so we was like I don't know everyone used to call us like the bash brothers we was always like just we was just on it we was just on making money and at the same time putting things on the estate everyone loved us and that Rani and I how was it being the only white kids in the estate as well did you have all that enough reputation that no there was fuck with you 100% like I'm not saying there's like Charlie big bollocks on that but the respect we was getting was because we was genuine people it's not like I used to try and bring so much people in but that was my downfall where I'd be trying to help him or him here run off with like a fucking kilo of weed or something like that I won't hear from him for six months here run off with an ounce I used to try and help everyone out on the estate no one can't say a bad word about me what was it like doing your first bank job what the one I got the three years for to be honest I was more embarrassed because my dad was in prison at the time he was doing a ten and a half for the same things kamikaze number with all kamikazes that just not planned no so the one that has come out for was planned that was a planned one yeah what was that anything like for you do you know what sometimes it wasn't even about the money I used to like I used to enjoy cars and bikes and parking them up places knowing if I drive the car to this bit I can actually walk through the alleyway they can't follow me I can get into another motor and fuck off so I liked all the planning parts of things in it and obviously it helped having money in it as well so seeing you're doing the boxes like when you're taking them obviously sometimes you can just change sometimes you can get maybe 20 bags 50 bags like yeah you've got kind of beyond it like you know it's not giving advice to people I'd do a cash machine because you know one of them's going to have a 20 grand in one's going to have a 15 one's going to have a 40 the one I went to prison for had the 45,000 and do you know what the geezer gave me a proper fight as well like the geezer proper I would straighten it with me like two weeks before that robbery took place the geezer doing the delivery was about this this hire I thought this is going to be a touch I'm just going to walk straight in and take all the trays back out the machine this big bloke's got out of the van and what I found out in court he was a British ex powerlifting champion if he got old with me I'd have been in trouble so as I got out of the car I thought you know I'm just going to take it I've got a dog in my hand now anyway but as I stuck it on him he wasn't scared one bit he swung for me first and I was doing a bit of white colour boxing at the time and I've kind of rolled it and it's not until I got to court I realised there are many times that I've got this teeth out which I'm gutted for I wish I don't plan on anyone getting hurt if I do these things so for that I would apologise and the things I've knocked him out spark out on top of the mountain top of the cassette so he's laying on top of his money this 20 stone bloke I've had to do a deadlift to get him off the money and then get back in the motor and my Cody was like fucking hell he's almost had you on that one he thought it was funny I was like fucking drive the car you bastard it's fucked up but I don't know so see when you're doing that was it just a case of if you're doing 20 boxes a week as well you must have been fucking earning so why did you need to jump on that same thing there were certain times I'm not sure if you're wearing a light in London I think it happens everywhere sometimes there's a massive drought and people'd only have like shit weed knocking about like Dutch or something like that so just to keep me ticking over sometimes I'd quickly go and get a 20 quid from somewhere you know but did your dad know you were doing that last point? like my dad knew what I was doing and he was a bit worried about the people who I was around doing it you know like for grasping and talking if it ever does come on top you know my dad's always tried to push me away and prevent me from doing these things like he used to tell me how much he's missed us and missed mom and stuff like that he knew that that went out the other ear so he probably thought the next best thing is you do it with me there's no there's no grasping going on I've got your back you've got my back can you turn jobs with your dad? just the one we got called for how was that doing a job with your dad? part of me I think my dad was going for a bit of a hard time then you know he lost a lot of stuff like money wise in assets and stuff and part of me felt like he wanted to go back to prison like he was out every day out every day Lou I've just seen this one I'm like called dad sweet I don't really care he used to get really excited about him and then I started getting a bit excited about him it started getting that bad I was having sleepless nights thinking that van is going to be doing that petrol station at two o'clock tomorrow I've got a mot already up that way I can go and get that one out of the way that's a quick 20 quid you know it's mad doing that I think you've got your how old is your daughter? she's 11 next month can I imagine taking your daughter out on a job it's heartbreaking you know every day I almost tear up thinking about my daughter you know I'm trying to be around her as much as I can it's so sad because I'm so happy to see her but sometimes we're together and I don't know what to say to her sometimes why do you think that is? I just feel like I've just done way too much I know there's still time for me to rebuild we still have great times don't get me wrong I'll take her out over the park or we do like activities together there was an occasion where I took her to the aquarium not so long ago Ms on the bus and I was just looking her and I was actually thinking of what can I say next but is this something I'm still working on I'm still trying to build that bond and that with her you know yeah that's all you can do as long as you're still there as long as you're staying out at a prison then you're winning already yeah but as long as the temptation doesn't come back you're feeling skinned you need to get Christmas presents that's what I'm saying I've been skinned since I come out a few of the boys looked after me like clothes and stuff I'm used to having a few quid in my pocket so for me this has been a struggle it's been a massive test like I'm leaving off £320 a week what the job centre give me now I never used to go to the job centre but now I'm trying to do things right you know yeah you're starting at the bottom but it's better I'm starting off there and trying to come out at a prison or being in prison and you've not got nothing to work with you're out man like how many there's people in the jail watch this stuff all the time and they'll relate to you so much it's not that they're bad people have just fucking done bad shit and it's sad because I haven't put so many friends who are dead are doing life are good fucking people who have to put their head to something else who have been successful at it that's the frustrating thing I've only just seen the other end that I was never violent but I was always in the mix I always fucking knew what was going on and I was always capable if need be but I used to think there's more to life and I'm just blessed that I've found something that I'm good at and something I can make a living from and something I can be successful at but it takes time it took me 33 years 34 years to I never thought I'd be fucking setting that up viewing people do you know what I mean I'm just a kid from Glasgow I wouldn't have ever thought I'd even be seeing in front of cameras but it's people like yourself and even bounce like we've come from similar backgrounds I see what he's doing right now it's motivating me right now he's hustling man he's hustling he's hustling like we need to have words soon bounce like seriously man how did your relationship bounce us that do you know what bounce we still need we need to have words about this so obviously I used to sell drugs growing up I was always selling weed and I remember this there was a drought at one point and someone wanted they wanted five boxes of weed and they was going for 34s at the time there's only boxes of Dutch this was all my brother's idea man so anyway we was putting boxes of sawdust together wrapping them back up and we had leave like an ounce in the corner so if anyone wants to cut the side in the corner open they can smell it or take a bud so anyway words got back to bounce so that there's like ten boxes in this house but me and bounce ain't friends at this point in it so he's got his little team together and the girl whose house it was bounces got another female to knock the door so they can make entry anyway they've run off with boxes of sawdust which I'm in bits about me and we have little laughs about it to this day we almost had beef over it but he was from like Croydon ways around from Battersea and we never actually got bumped into each other but we had a lot of mutual friends which kind of walked with everything down and that you know they were like Lou if it was your side you would have definitely robbed him for them two boxes as well which I would have finally bounced ten in his house at the time I'm coming to his house instead so now I think do you know what it's a funny story and from that our mutual friend kind of brought us together then we met up again in prison and you know he used to just give me a lot of information and just told me to make sure you got a plan when you come out of prison that you know him and my dad really got on as well because his knowledge of life is spot on like he's lived a life like a lot of people don't really know his backstory from the robberies from all the shit that he'd done and he's just straight hustling and puts everything into the wicked and bad and he's got his drink he's got his face he's got Sunday smoke like and big Tyrone who I'm good friends with man like the two of them put on well and the social media is popping people are going to get hate when you become successful especially becoming from the streets because nobody's really doing that well with their life they're going to hate on you but nothing but loving respect for by himself for what he's doing what he's achieving and what he's trying to do it's motivational it's now people like bouncing yourself you're opening doors for other people every time I go on social media now I'm thinking do you know what I could just go through this though I can kind of make something happen here I mean a lot of it's confidence building I'm still learning a lot of things my still struggle is anxiety day to day but I'm starting to get on top of things you know yeah is that the PTSD because of the shit that you have caused in the past yeah it probably is and it doesn't help like my mum's like she's got mental health problems herself so part of me is the question of things am I like my mum and it's quite scary she's done like mental hospitals and stuff and I've had visits there and I've had little mini breakdowns over them sort of situations and that as well it's only like a month for go like I wish I wasn't even here but I was thinking I don't even want to wake up in the morning why am I here you know so that's how you do yeah it's having them thoughts it's having them thoughts man but then you've got a daughter man like that's the only thing we must keep you going and keep you sane because it is hard that I had those thoughts when I had two kids back in the day the first five to six years I was non-existent I was there I think I'd done daddy duties now I'm a dad now I do care now everything I do I do for me but then it helps the people around me to everything's connection everything's love like I still have my doubts I still have my flaws I still think fucking crazy shit but I just know that's why I don't drink I take drugs anymore because I know I can rip the whole ceiling down I actually had a dream mate two days ago that I was bang on it bang on this sniff mate and I woke up and I thought I was on it and I come down I genuinely thought I was on it and I thought I fucked everything and it took me a couple of minutes to get round and I realised it fucking scared the shit out of me I can't drink I can't drink if I have one drink I'm bang on this sniff and I'm just the man who just could have been something yeah because I'll rip the whole fucking ceiling down and I ain't got another recovery in me bro to change nearly 40 do you know what I mean like I fucking worked relentless to keep on the path I've created the path but the self-sabotage can kick in because if you start building a bond with your daughter and getting closer and closer and your dad gets out you're closer and closer and you've got a job sometimes that's not enough even though it's everything you've ever wanted and sometimes the self-sabotage for you know you've got a shooter man you're away doing a van for fucking 20 bags and you're back in dinner 15 it's crazy how many men I've actually spoke to who have changed their life it wasn't good enough Sam Miller who I had done he was in the IRA got beaten, battered in prison he got out went to America met his love of his life working in a casino making thousands changed his life got out of the IRA smashed that but a job offer to an IRA it was a bank job millions New York couldn't resist done it jailed life look at it man his wife everything and with the Good Friday agreement he did get out after a few years but he didn't need to do it he had everything he ever wanted but the temptation of I says why the fuck do you do it and he just says I thought something was missing I wanted to test myself to see if he could do it I've had people approach me since I've been home like to go and take things off people but you know it's not me now you know as much as I could do the reddies in that it's not me how hard does it to knock back it's you know for me it's got a lot easier I'm happy just to plod along now you know how many jails you've been in well over 10 obviously started off and felt I'm young offenders 2005 from there went to Portland Rochester then I come out went to Wandsworth High Point Brixton Belmarsh and then on the third one I've done high down for a few years cold and leave for a year or so only for a few years and then I've eventually got decap from the last 18 months what was Brixton like he was a Battersea and Brixton don't go on do they you know that was a bloody shit well lucky enough I was on a wing where it was fairly quiet I was only there for a few weeks because my trial was in Oh Bailey for the murder case so I went straight to Belmarsh I actually enjoyed Belmarsh I had a lot of friends we was all on the same wing and we was all up for murder charges some of us went home some of us got furries it's sad man yeah how was that scene like some day both gone for trials separate trials one gets a 30 one gets off that it happened at my trial there was some fellas from north London there was actually linked up with the Brixton ones for a shooting in Stretham and some of them went home and the main guy he ended up getting a 25 but on the day I got a not guilty I was in two months because we was on trial at the same time I was in two months go to his flat and say I got a not guilty you know because I had a feeling he was gonna get a guilty he's in Grendan now as well actually doing pretty well so all the best for him if he does when he's up for parole and that how was Belmarsh Belmarsh was right a couple of my pals were the gym oldies there so I had it good I had at least like 10 of my pals were all on the same wing and we was all up for murder charges so we all used to talk to each other in the yard and go through each other's paperwork and this is one of the reasons why I actually got into boxing you know I had some I don't even want to say his name but I had some Irish fella in a cell with me he's quite well known around the prison system and he was just fighting with everyone having absolute wars with all the Muslims and stuff they wasn't getting on but he used to teach me how to do pad do you know using the shower slippers and that and they used to just fucking ribshot me and I said do you know what I want to have a white collar fight which I did um but it's all because of him he's actually out now he's finished his IPP so he's doing really well as well at the moment how did you get through your sentences training was a massive thing I've lost a few stone now due to um a couple operations I've had now on my shoulder but the exercise just does something for you you know it just releases so much and it just wears you out when the evening comes you know I'm an overthinker so you know I was just overthinking things like what's what's the missus doing and things like that whereas my training would kind of tire me out so much I wouldn't think about it as much if you have an exercise do you think you would still be here oh mate if I didn't I don't know do not to be honest I didn't have no suicidal folks in prison it's not until I got released do you think that's because your commentary faced the facts that the misery have caused on a lot of people especially the robberies because there's always victims even the men who are standing there security guards yeah yeah their heads will be fried because you know what the crime I went to prison for what I got the 17 years for it was on Judge Rinder you've done Judge Rinder's crime stories week and it's known to us he the security guards wife talking and in tears you realise it affects a lot of people but at the time you don't you're just thinking quick full week round and I see I feel a bit shit but Judge Rinder proper mug me off though you know they've done the reconstruction yeah yeah what happened so they made a reconstruction of the whole robbery mate I was in good Nick I was in proper good shape they made some skinny crackhead man play me in the reconstruction I was looking it's like mate they could have got someone like Tom Hardy or someone to play me like I think they took Libby's then they got some big fat bloke to play my dad's all the boys were absolutely ripping us on the when kicking their doors look at Lou look at he's dead absolutely ripping us we come out to loads of loads of abuse in the morning laughing their heads off because the governor had to come and give us a heads up first that you're going to be aired on ITV he's going to be aired on this time and you know he done me dirty that one he done me dirty how was that getting a 17 what you thinking then standing in the dark oh my god so I was expecting to like get a 12 year sentence at the worst so when they stood up they started off with a 16 year sentence I got an extra year for the money what I took so I got an extra year for twenty two and a half thousand so I ended up being 17 but when they stood up and sentenced me and they said Lewis Clark I sent into you to 17 years I said who me I looked behind me like they made a mistake my dad's found it funny he's like are they fucking sticking right up mate like because he's already been sentenced he's eight and a half years life sentence so he's like I just want to get back to the fucking prison nice chip day you know on a Friday you get your chips every Friday in prison and I was thinking now this can't be right I tried to appeal it and stuff and they just wasn't having it what messed me up with that trial I took it to trial because the evidence was really weak so there was a chance of me going home there was they didn't find the gun that was used they found no money that was taken no DNA was found in the car that was used they had a cell site what put me in a five mile radius of that area or that morning but couldn't pinpoint me to that bit so I was on bow for nearly a year over this case and they started following me they signed up to my gym they started guiding all the lockers there's looking in all the roof panels for the gun or the money and then they followed me to Bista Village one time and I'm not really into fashion I'm not really into clothes and I was buying the kids some like I had a 50% off Ralph Lauren and Gucci so I bought the kids some little bits and pieces to treat them but they actually followed me there taking pictures of me spending money but the money what I had on me my boxing promoter paid me 10,000 from my last three fights because I was quite a big ticket seller but yeah the judge wasn't hearing it they took all my clothes off me took my daughter's clothes so yeah to convict you yeah and obviously I've got previous for cash and transits and my dad's literally just finished a 10 and off for one as well because of the stuff you did that's the thing man I've spoke to a lot of people as well who've got a lot away with so much and they get the bigger sentence for the things that they've never done because they want to get you know what because can you understand that as well I call my blessings because they could easily get me a wrongly conviction for the murder case as involved I could have got a 25 you know so when I've got that even though they've got they've got it right with they're not guilty sometimes you do hear about cases when they do get it wrong occasionally you know it's not like they get it wrong man there's a lot of shit there that puts the paper in front of them there's a lot of corruption there as well they can make you look so guilty like they was putting things in our case like because the evidence was so weak there's like look they went to B&Q and they looked to see how much this kitchen cost is a 3 and off grand kitchen so what was the challenges for the 17 so I've got 9 years for the gun 16 years for the robbery and 12 months for the confiscation order is what's it called conspiracy to commit armed robbery and your dad getting it and he got 8 and a half but what killed me off is the geezer said when I start the gun to him he said that I pulled the trigger and then he said I looked at the gun to say why didn't you go off thing but I've watched a little bit of the video you can clearly see me put the gun to him he swings me I kind of grab him one arm gun back to him or the other I don't I don't pull the trigger I wouldn't shoot someone for 40 grand why did they why did they try and listen to their job but why does it do you think some people try and become heroes when they ain't getting paid enough I don't get it like you're insured for that money it's not their money either it's not even their money just put it down and go home you get to go back home to your to your family that night you know it's easier for us to sit here and say that but they probably just hard workers try to save some money but again it's your life somebody puts a banger to your head man give it up man let's give it up I think he knew his stuff though like I said he was a British powerlifting champion and he served like 10 years in Afghanistan or something so he knew about his guns and machines and stuff do you remember when he walked through the court doors he was that big he had to walk through sideways like how a crab walks to get through the doors like fuck you know if this geezer gave me a clump I would have been in trouble what would you do if you seen this game I would hope I would hope here to shake the handshake if I could give him a handshake and say do you know what I was going through some shit and I was very down in them days as well I had money in my pocket but I was really in my daughter's mama net and I just wanted to get out of the house most days you know yeah how was it with that same Brexit now because I know people from both ends I've been in both ends and I'm treated fucking the food is amazing the people are amazing I've been in some fucking proper people and both treatment with respect it's getting a whole lot better with the older generation like I'm 36 in a few weeks so like my sort of age group now I can actually see them it's like I was looking back on some old music videos as in the other day I was absolutely cringing to hell I'm the skinniest white kid in these videos I'm like doing little gang signs and I'm like oh I want to die right now but yeah you grow up you know you grow up and I see a lot of like the ones that don't get on with from over them sort of sides they're doing really well with their music or they're doing like podcasts and they're making some positive changes to someone that you didn't like for no reason you'd probably fucking get on with it was a good chance you got on with because there's both similarities there by both groups like you say I've been in both mate and nothing but respect because I used to always be wary of London nice to think man it's fucking unhappy place here see once you actually get into the fucking heart of it and actually meet people you realise man there's so much culture the food the Bible there's so much goodness down here even in the gangs that I've met them and I couldn't be more they're just they're just loyal man and they're but they're fucking wired up wrong bro they're tapped up wrong they act crazy man but I love London it's a place now and it's grew up a big piece of my heart since I've been down here in the last three years and because I've met so many individuals and they've been showing me around but I've nothing but love and respect for it because I know how crazy it is but also know how loyal some people are down here but I know how fucking ruthless it can be as well I all made a I know this has happened can we let this one go now do you know what I mean because certain of my friends have been released from prison now I mean listen he's grown up I've got a couple of dead numbers in my phone I would phone him FaceTime and what you up to mate how's your day been and I would love to be able to put a stop to certain situations but there's going to be somewhat I just can't prevent and I just hope I'm never there yeah how do you feel if somebody did put it on you and you're trying to find pieces in your life now you're trying to find the light you're trying to do the best thing because the temptation is always there like you've still got to fight for your owner but how would you feel mate do you know what if I could walk away from a situation which I've not been tested yet to be honest well if someone pulls a knife out on me or a gun obviously I'm not going to try and fight I'm just going to try and get away or wherever but if someone comes and he stick it all over and be like listen let's just leave it here but if they start I don't mind if we do have a fight and it's left at that sort of thing but down here it's not left at that why do you think you're trying to find peace now I just want something better for their selves and their family and their kids and I want something better for my family and my kids I put my mum through hell getting the doors kicked in every other week selling drugs or for arm ruby with arm arm please put my mum on the floor or put my little brother on the floor my little brother is nothing like me he's autistic to keep putting him through things like that I feel like I'm part of the reason why he is the way he is my little brother don't even come out of his room he's this house bound he's 20 it's his birthday yesterday so happy birthday half happy birthday half it yeah I just wish I could get him out of the house and that more man he's so shy he's a little gamer I'm glad he's a little gamer and nothing like me and my older brother but I just wish I could do a little bit more and get him out of the house I blame myself and my mum having mental breakdowns what was that mental health like before like she's been going even over the last few weeks she's just been going through some shit man like and at the moment I only come down to Batsy twice a week to pick my door up so I will pop into my to my mum's to see her as well have a coffee but she's been struggling with her mental health like she's schizophrenic like she's probably tried to commit suicide few times do you see a lot of yourself on your mum as well I do like I see more of myself in my mum than my dad and sometimes I feel like I could easily not now because I feel strong today but a few weeks ago I felt I felt pretty weak like I could do something man why do you think that arise because I'm so stubborn yeah if I say I'm going to do something I'm going to have to do it even if it was 10 years ago 20 years ago because you're talking about you want to forget and move on but are you still finding it hard to let go of things in the past yourself no I've let go of so much like I said my brother's been shot I don't even want them people in prison like I don't even want nothing to happen to them what I want them to do is never do that again yeah I don't know who did it where they live now nothing just don't ever do that again how many friends do you think you've lost I've lost at least six friends to like gunshots or knife crime even like the people we used to have trouble with they've probably lost about 10 to 12 people there selves like we're taking people away from their families on either side like if I've got a 30 my mom's losing out on me now for 30 years I've got a friend doing 33 years in prison now and he's only like 13 years in and I'm just thinking you still got another 20 to go is that a 33 year old yeah a 33 year old I think someone got shot shot like 10 times and he's just I went to visit him just before I went away and I see like pictures of him recently and he doesn't look like he's doing too well the person I left was all active and confident now we've drawn probably smoking that spice or something this is sad to see you know you still haven't license I've got eight years I've done I've got eight years and a month left on license I've been out for like four months now five months so they got me on like a crime prevention order so that's a bit sticky at the moment so like if I want to get into your motor I've got a phone nail bill and say I'm getting so and so's motor this is his registration plate and if I'm leaving London I've got to give them a 24 hour notice that I'm leaving London and this is where we're going can you understand why you've got that though yeah I can understand why I've got that I'm only allowed to one phone obviously still reporting to probation once a week got probation in a couple days but he's actually being helpful you know is it because a sample of POS are fucking some of them are terrible yeah I've had some shit ones along the way but this one's actually being resourceful he's actually going out of his way and offering advice and courses so I'll give it to that one do you think you'll stay out I'm out I could fill something big is going to happen maybe early next year I'm just going to continue I've literally got two more weeks left on my personal training course for my level three I'm just going to crack on with that and hopefully get some YouTube's video content out there yeah if you're training these podcast have you got any YouTube set up yeah yeah I've got my YouTube set up I've got older now but what's it got just type it in big blue gym bars it's basically short little interviews and workouts with like your favorite UK rappers social influencers called Denzel Bentley he's fighting for the British middleweight title on Friday at the O2 Arena Channel 5 so yeah watch that and be a good watch yeah so you've got a lot of things happening now it's just try to unravel all that pain it's not just going to happen overnight it's a long steady journey years and years do you know what I mean you're only recently out it's just try to adapt to fucking society again and try to stay clean try to stay away from the bad things it's the more time you spend your kids have realized wait a minute what if I hurt someone's dad or who's got kids exactly it's the horrible shit and senior mum like because it's all human beings all we're all sensitive beings no matter how tough you think you are no matter if you're doing a life or no matter if you've robbed 40, 50 banks no matter if you're a bare knuckle fighter like you actually speak to everybody one on one you realize how sensitive and soft they are as well that's what people need to be doing you need to be like one on one sessions they work so much better yeah I've always got so I used to do like a resolve course in prison like do a lot of one on one sessions and I found they helped more than the group sessions you know you get a lot more out of them have you done charity I've done I've just I've done offending behavior programs done resolve TSP it's like a thinking skills program I've just done little things like that you know like you don't take a lot from me you know like what's your red flags and stuff and what sort of situations would you avoid next time so I've learned a few things from them yeah but they can be a positive and negative because the red things you learn you can fucking end up learning more and going to jobs you know what's absolutely mad I remember 2005 it was called ETS back then enhanced thinking skills I remember taking part in this course and I'm thinking this is making me more clued up to do another robbery like so next time you're going to be more assertive yeah like yeah it's mad though is there anybody you can speak to now like when you're struggling couple of weeks ago is there anybody you can reach out to or if you get too much pride to try and do it yourself I've still got a little bit of pride like I sort of speak to my misses every night phase time for an hour or so when I can't see her but I've got a good friend George I'd reach out to him how do you deal with that with the relationships later stuff it's nice I can't have a full on relationship at the minute like I see my misses like twice a week why just so little I love being by myself is that does she understand she understands that sometimes I love waking up in my bed and no one else is there because you know when you're in a routine I wake up I chill for like 10 seconds curtains come up kettle goes on and if she stays over she wants to try and lay I'm just trying to push her at the bench once we're up she goes mental sometimes but she's fully understanding has that been institutionalised or are you just soaking yes that's what my dad got me into got me into a routine get the curtains over get the kettle on I bet you're banging your fucking spin there I bet you're banging I was she told me you're free I put the kettle on she went absolutely mad she just gave me the side eye and she was going mental like that she was this I don't dad is he gets home leaves town visits we actually had a race I let him have a race with my daughter the other day and a couple of these old school pals come down they had an over 50s foot race so I filmed it I was absolutely pissing myself but he he looks like a change man do you think both of you can come out and change your life yeah I'd love him to come out because my dad's fucking so handy with his hands like grafting he's so handy whereas I've never really been into all of that because if you come out your dad comes out and you both change your life because even listen you're not making money from crime but there's opportunities there for books and documentaries possibly films that father and son robbing banks to get a let it is fucked up but again people would like to watch that shit hey guy Richie needs to get at me for that you know cause a shout mate Tom Harper's getting to play you don't listen you don't know but as long as you can stay true to you and try and clean your soul as much as you can and never think that it's over because you have a couple of bad days just remember that you're free just remember that you're out and you're trying and you're trying it's not just your 36 years life has been fucking misery bro there's no point in denying that you've seen dead bodies guys shot in the fucking nut you know what I mean it's fucked up shit but if you can come through that and do it in a positive light and write about your pain in the past even getting a young team from Battersea and Brixton and bring them together and try and having conversations and shaking hands that's what it's all about trying to teach people not to make the same mistakes you've done but when your dad comes out then both of you can do positive things for the community for better people not to make go and speak at schools go and speak at prisons these are opportunities that arise and it's good for the fucking soul it definitely you feel like you're giving something back in it you know I do actually go there's a little cherry run gym called Karni's community in Battersea they actually help like younger versions of myself and that you know and that's where I go to do my my personal training course and that as well so if I can have a advice to them I always have a little sit down and how are you doing people? I'm getting better I'm getting better normal people not criminal as that I'm getting better because do you know what I used to struggle with James I used to feel like I don't fit in even though I've got so much love and support by like friends and family and even social media who are some people I don't even know always reach out on that but I just I don't feel like I fit in at anyone's table like even though I know he loves me and he supports me I feel like I can't be too long I'm gonna have to shoot off in a minute such as shell insecurities maybe like I feel like I'm begging it sort of thing or I'm just forcing conversations I actually pulled my friends aside and said I'm gonna go for a little 10 minute break and come back but they're understanding with these sort of things what money do you think you've spent over the last 20 years? I was doing dumb things I was living in like ranges and next six rentals and stuff spending stupid money weekly when I've got nothing to show for nothing now that could have been like a down payment little mortgage I was interested in jewelry going out every weekend treating the lads I just wish I put all my money to the side yeah but hindsight's wonderful thing bro and you've obviously been dealt these cards it's just down to you how you play them like you're out now you're free everything that you ever wanted been line caged up now you're out so yeah that's just down to you anything's possible do your fitness videos try and get your YouTube poppin start a podcast I get guests on and talking about life like I'm not more than happy to have your dad on when he's out you and your dad and having a discussion because it's that one will be massive yeah because this is fairer possessions bro promoting criminals I ain't fucking promoting criminals I know the pain it causes I've been one for years like I've done good I've done bad that's just life but my job is to give people an understanding of why people are the who they are and people bat on the struggle I've had entrepreneurs on who've been suicidal I've had millionaires on billionaires I've had homeless men on exchange of life and become millionaires that people's got a story and people's always got something to give no matter how dark or deep their problems go and that's a beautiful thing about life that we just don't know what the next day is going to deal is yeah it's a fucking it's a weird this experience is weird life is fucking weird I've never quite mastered what it's about bro and I don't have a think at all I think sometimes I've got it figured but then sometimes I chase money, styles sometimes I like I love good things but then I question it because I think well it's irrelevant but then I crave it sometimes I crave attention on social media I can never find the right balance this is what I was doing in prison obviously you know you're not meant to have phones and everything but I've done my whole sentence with a smart phone and I found myself living on social media putting up pictures you know like even like taking my top off thinking I'm looking hench and stuff that was kind of me asking for a bit of help you know that was kind of me thinking I like my picture or comment or check in on me you know I used to do that nearly every day but I just wanted someone to reach out are you right but it's only an odd one or two people who had meant like see me doing mad things like every day I'll put a new picture up why are you doing that you're in prison just enjoy having a phone enjoy a face time in the kids whenever you can yeah yeah it's like sticking yourself in like that have you all came across any snitches has anybody ever stopped you and threw you under the bus I was probably about to be in 100 what in prison yeah just then jobs you've done I've been at co-op even though on that murder case someone really did try to throw me under the bus like no names on that he didn't say that it was like me who'd done anything but for the person who that was I didn't know you was about that sort of life saying oh I heard they didn't get on why did you even have to mention anything like you know like the way I used to settle things growing up was we used to have a lot of fist fights like to settle things and that you know so yeah I did come across one and a few in prison and stuff who would say I'll lose selling tobacco on the wing or whatever because you know when the smoking ban come in yeah you know for like an ounce of tobacco it's like 11 pounds in prison as soon as that ban come in an ounce of tobacco in prison is 250 pounds what it's like a goldmine fucking barrage mate you're living if you can get knock out four of them like a week that's a bag a week quickly and somebody stopped you yeah someone's side probably because I wasn't giving them little bits and pieces and that but the thing is they can actually break an ounce of tobacco down into little 25 bits and some people's making back a grand on one ounce in tobacco absolutely crazy had to dig up the yard because I couldn't keep my side loads of holders in this yard buried buried in tobacco I'm like how am I even getting away with this like fucking hell but it got me through Christmases and that you know yeah it's not like I was like buying loads of bits and pieces for myself I was making sure them kids have got what they need for Christmas my brother do you know what he don't sell drugs or anything now he's doing painting decorating stuff what I do want to say he needs to maybe go and have a sit down in a little therapy session with someone and that you know because I'd say he's been through a lot more than what I've been through you know like I said he was shot five times he's been stabbed five times and he's still breathing somehow fucking blessed he walks with a little limp maybe he needs to have a little sit down that with someone and he needs to reach out maybe I'm going to reach out to him and just give him a little cuddle and be like come let's go together if anything you know yeah just have a conversation man being immune to it like that sort of trauma is fucked up in the head but it's that's just the way it is man to try and settle and try and not settle but it just becomes normal but then there is a stage like he'd probably get those stages and like yourself so it's probably the best that you've fallen off so you know what your fans are going to want I'm just talking about everything you've been through because as soon as you talk about it you start to heal from it which is the main thing because you suppress a lot of things there's a lot of shit I'll go at the grave with I'll never speak about but there's some stuff that I won't and I don't mind that I've got stuff down and pieces of paper and set them in fire just the kind that put it out there in the universe as if I've told someone there's a lot of stuff I can get out but there's a lot of in the meantime there's stuff I'm not trying to on earth again you know like because I'm at a stage now whereas I'm comfortable with certain situation and me talking about some situations what have happened in the past it could arise again and that's something what I'm trying to prevent you know because these people as well have been killed they've got sons so I'm still got that respect for people you know yeah would you like any more kids? do you know what I'm going to make my door as happy as I can and if something happens in the future with another kid coming to my life then I'll make it happen but for now I need to make sure she's got the best dad around her and I need to sort these pockets out again and let you know yeah but that all comes with time brother you can just keep I'm not even rushing it I'm stressing it and how long have you been out for five months I've been out five months do you know what everyone's saying now guess what I'm not enjoying my food I'm still eating tins of tuna and macaroon noodles every day yeah so oh mate that's what I had today before I come down here I had macaroon I had macaroon toast macaroon toast you know are you struggling with my food and all that are you struggling with the tables still struggling like I get three hundred and twenty quid a month from the universal credit and it absolutely killed me to actually have to go in the job center and do this but if I'm going to do it so like I'm spending nearly a hundred and sixty pound on travel a month then I've got to buy my food I'll spend my daughter twice a week so I'll spend money on her when I come down to Battersea and that I usually run out of money a week before I'm meant to get again yeah nothing on the basics but lucky enough I can like I could phone one of my friends like mate you've got fifty quid there I'm sorry to ask don't be silly and he'll give it to me but I'm not going to stress too much something good is going to come you know that's all you can do brothers believe that if somebody watching this and people watch this and people reach out or for jobs what kind of if somebody had a job what kind of what would you look for do you know what I'm not great with things but if anyone needs their house removals or anything like that me picking something cut from here to there I can do that for you or my personal training qualification is going to be in two weeks I'd love to start getting my own clients yeah willing to come down to my box and then some workouts and that I'd love it where is that that's in Battersea it's that corny's community so in the next few weeks we're going to have some stuff going on down there that's all you can do brother you're trying something's going to happen something good's going to come in that man plus you've got a story listen people write books in that as well the books get turned into films like the father and son kind of bank robbers and stuff put that in there a few people listen there's so many little comical moments there's so much out and stuff but maybe for a later day and when that comes out maybe we can both come on in anytime brother anytime what do you think talking about your story it's great to get it out there and just I just want I just want to look at the youngsters to see this and I want them to realize I miss my daughter so much miss my family so much did you miss her because you're out now seeing you were in there they try and block it out I was trying to like I used to have pictures on the wall of my door and I'd wake up and like even though she couldn't hear me every night I'd go to my window and say oh good night Hallie I love you even though she couldn't hear that I felt like she could feel it certain things certain things and that that's making me a bit teary talking about but I'll never good you the years gonna start getting better for me whether you go for the future brother this year I'm still I'm gonna be building next year it's gonna those are gonna start opening again for me you know for anybody watching it's maybe getting through the struggle it's maybe in gang life like what advice would you have for them listen it's not the one every single one of my friends doing 33 year sentences in prison they've all regretted what they've done so please just think twice yeah that's them brother for coming on today and telling your story I've thoroughly enjoyed that I'm rooting for you just stay on your path stay clean stay true to you and big things will happen I appreciate it man God bless you brother cheers man