 I'd like to, listen everybody, we have this cracker-jab key. So if there's something you need, if you need anything, then keep y'all, people will be at your disposal. And Marsha Norman will be at your disposal. Okay, so, well, where do you, where do you be on the other side, or are you at your disposal too? Right here, this is Amy, Rachel, Jovon, and Melody. If you've driven here, then make sure you get a parking sticker. If you are in this room at all, and you didn't get your 20% discount, two ponds of cloth in the kitchen. We are, in fact, I think planning to do a lot of writing, so you may need something for that purple tunnel going on. The bathrooms are back over there. There will be a keynote lunch later. People will be lined up out there, and then we'll just report that again. You have in your packets all kinds of information to check out. You've got things you actually have to do, and then we'll respond. And that will be what we're creating in a way. Are there any questions for me at the moment? Water's in the bath. So let's get this show on the ground. We had a wonderful conversation and a great panel, and if you guys would come up, what do I call your name? Martian Herman? Let's go up there. Dario, where are you? This game is a thing we're going to talk about, parody for the new parody in the theater. So I'm going to give them a quick introduction because time is short, and the topic is ginormous, so they're getting much less than they deserve. But still, we're going to introduce them. Dario Pollutant, right to my right, is a playwright and a TV writer currently based in L.A. She's had worked with all the producers all around this country, and she's an founding member of the Kimberlake. She's a playwright based in New York City. Her play is so nice. I'm sorry, I just premiered at Victory Garden Theatre in Chicago, and she has so many more in the pipeline, I can't even tell you about them. Yay, awesome. So Laffer is an alumnus of this work, and I've checked out her play tonight. And it's toured. With that, her upcoming play, Inform Consent, is going to be at the Duke Theater in New York City, in August. Very exciting, which is often used all over town in our nation as well. Thank you. Graham is a playwright, a screenwriter, and Emmy-nominated writer for TV, a filmmaker and educational performer. My girl, she's now developing a play with my company, and she's a fantastic teacher and author of... Martin Orman, the winner of the Pulitzer Prize and the Tony Award for her many, many amazing The Night Leather and Secret Garden. She's the co-chair of the Juilliard Playwrights Program, which is a work on the panelists. Our alumnus, she's a great mentor to playwrights and an admin, and she is a co-founder of the Lily Award. PlayExchange is going to be hearing a lot more about which is awesome for the National New Play Network, is also a playwright who's been produced in the National New Play Network, and has found a number of the welders, go playwrights, collective movement, and a DC record on the skill on that day. I'm Susan Murfield, I'm the producing artist for The New Georgia, which is... which is what we call a strategically small theater company in New York City. The first 20 years we've produced and developed new plays written and directed by women. And you know, it's happened yesterday when we were on our way here, someone said, you're the right person to be and I said, well, you know, I kind of am, I mean, theoretically, and on paper, but the truth is that I've been living in this kind of verified home where everyone is a woman, everyone's plays produced, everyone's plays developed, and everyone is happy all the time. We just keep really, really busy because our premise is that if you develop a generation of really cool, amazing theater artists and who would want to produce them? But it's always been complex for us because we definitely put the work first. We feel like that part of our mission is the easy part. So we were going on for 23 years. When suddenly, about 5 or 6 or 7 years ago, there came this jolt in the form of first town hall meeting that was about reading parody to women in theater and really counting up the accounts that already existed that were semi-controversial to talk about the lack of plays by women being produced. And I was like, oh, things are so much better. Look at all these great reviews and these very singular productions have gotten a lot of attention, but the truth was there were a lot of plays that were not producing women enough. And there was a lot of play that were being produced. And the conversation continued. The conversation continued and we noticed that even though these plays were getting better reviews, they weren't really getting any award nominations. And then last year there was an enormous jolt when the Kilroyds put out their first premise. It was very exciting for me when I got this email saying, hey, tell me five of the best that you've read this year. We're going to put them on the list between that and I'm sure all of you know. The Kilroyds were very, very good publicizing their delightful enterprise. And that made a big difference. And I think it was a big difference in terms of the way we all promote our films. They were like, we're going to get this out there, we're cool, we're happening, we're in LA so we're not even really at the center of what people think about films of theater. We're all very accomplished. We can really make this happen in a bigger way. And I think it's very exciting to me to see what that organization was and the impact that my company was happening based on our representation on that list and among the nominees and the conversations that started after that was going on. We're so lucky because the second Kilroyds list a little bit different but also it was really awesome and really helpful and another nice jolt just came out this week. So I wanted to kick out this conversation by talking to Daria, of that group, to talk a little bit about A, how that got started and why and B, what the impact you has been that you've felt in the past year since the last time, since it's all been happening. Yeah. Well, it started very informally. It was a a playwright friend and producer friend that runs out and it happened to be all women and we were talking about like ah, only 20, 24% of the plays, it was nationally everybody and we were like, you know writers wah, wah, and we were like too good stop complaining about this like what can we do? So we had a couple of themes together and we said and we tried to think about what is the most impactful, practical rising times result shifts things that we do and part of you would hear from artistic directors mostly now we want to produce plays by women and we just can't find them like we would if we found something that we liked and we're like okay why don't we make a tool that provides access that is easy that is nationally industry recommended like we kind of took a page from the blacklist, this rewriting sort of hot list of unproduced films and so we surveyed last year over 300 this year 500 and you can get back about 230, 70% in fact I'll respond to this and so last year we got all our data in and we thought oh you know, it's going to be the name 1020 plays, this is just going to be a list and we'll like, you know the sort of usual aspect and we got the data in and it was pages and pages of plays, new plays that have had one or zero printable really like we know as writers and we were astonished at the breadth there were 300 over 300 plays last year and we said we got it we're going to show the breadth of this like not only are there a couple good plays there are 300 that are industry recommended so that was our first iteration of the list and we were just shocked and overjoyed at the response that we got and it just kind of showed where the way there was but that's super, super, super practical here's the list, here you go here's the content over here so then this year we wanted to improve on that, we partnered with the replay exchange to provide access to the play and we were pretty able to find them because maybe George like doesn't know how to turn everything off and so and then we also this year went to make sure that our nominations our nominators were as diverse and as wide of a range as we could get but over 750 plays now there are over 750 plays that happened with them which is like amazing so we could have published all of those this year but we did the top portion and then we also did a large list of honorable mentions again, provided as much access as we could and we were we just were finding everything we were finding our language and and we renewed the difference what's really interesting for me is here I guess in terms of the discussion of gender parity and a larger discussion maybe society societally is the kind of unconscious bias but it's not consciously we hear like oh the feedback that comes plays it's lovely, it's domestic it feels small like so just with the sort of sheer force of the list and of the power of that we want to help change that and change the unconscious bring light to the unconscious gender bias that I think has been programed and generally yeah I think the first time is that this always happens and I know that other studies are coming out is that really it was so smart, I know there is a new description for this event and beyond this anger and into action and really by surveying so many respected people in the field by getting their opinions by having them think about it in order to participate in the list and then by putting that out for everyone to see it was very cool presented in a way that was very forward thinking and to me it sort of changed the conversation in a way because everyone wanted to be a part of it and then I do think that in the past 7 years however long this movement has happened we've seen a lot of changes specific changes just acknowledgement of exactly the things you're talking about but I was really intrigued that this year there was partnering with the new play exchange I was interested in the new play exchange so let's have a look to hear about that don't be in the context of each award well I was like the award nominator of the first year and fell in love with it and sort of said what can I do to help so everyone raise your hands if you know what the new play exchange is yay it's awesome and if you want it on there keep it on it's the first national database of new scripts playwrights can share their work with the new play exchange and then producers can go there and find it and so you know as a nominator the first time I thought I can't believe how great this is how much attention it's getting and how much it's regressing and conscious bias and I thought this is a great opportunity to really make the play immediately available after the first year yeah I see the list of plays but how do I find them? I said I have a platform to distribute plays to the whole world maybe we don't have we had some discussions on each job and they had it was great immediately work together all the time so that when you click on the name on the kill list it goes to the new play exchange profile and you can either download the script or certainly learn more about it reach out to the agent it sort of eliminated the past barrier what we wanted to do is say you have no excuses and I can find and produce this work but one of the things that I love about the new play exchange I have access to lots of data about what's in there it's now 4500 that's about more than 100 playwrights you can see the rest of them are women $10 you can join the new play exchange you have access to 730 female playwrights there's no excuse anymore if that's who you are who you are and I hope it brings more people to the new play exchange generally it's a rising tide women or anyone really or anyone I talked to Deb yesterday about how she's sort of de facto talk about this and other conversations about the way that you feel that as a woman you need to put yourself forward and I feel like you're so forward thinking last year I had this conversation about she's like I'm going to put everything on Facebook that's happening to me so that everyone sees that this is so invisible other things that you're doing just as you yeah, okay I guess I want to admit that about 85 years ago I realized that on Facebook being such a huge part of my life I realized that when I saw that I hadn't had a production in the theater I wanted to get I felt a pain I felt a jealousy or I'm like oh it's not me and I hated that so much I guess Facebook really brought that to me and I know it doesn't work because we put it all out there and I I do think the rising tide with this all up has decided to change I just wanted to see if I could change my brain if I could make myself feel like it's a win every time I see a woman get a production instead of feeling it's not me and I thought it was impossible but honestly I started I started reposting whenever I would see someone I knew that I would like it I would comment that I do love these plays actually I would say I love this play and I started feeling differently about it and then the women when I would post something those women would and I have to say it is mostly women who would do this for each other those women would repost more and write those things for people and when I look on their feed I look for what women are having production so that I can do that for them and it just has changed me in five years in a way I didn't think possible and I don't feel that pain anymore I feel like it's a win another thing I just want to say about Facebook really quick I also felt embarrassed to put good reviews up there or I felt like I was going to ask and that I'm not supposed to do that and when I realized whenever I would put a good review up I would get a question about play I would say at least on economics I'm just posting along on Facebook and I have a question in Germany from posting a good review on Facebook and I think women are feel pretty good about posting their good reviews I think in general and women are impressed about it and I've just told all my friends post those good reviews and I will just be all over I will just be love and mental out of them and and it really just builds a momentum let's stop feeling ashamed of just going yay I did it I missed the bullet this time because reviews I mean what are they really we all know they're sort of meaningless but if there are means to go to other people somebody like this then we can use that so that's my big push really is shout yourself out to be presented in and I felt embarrassed about who I am but when I had a good review to post I would look at every theater that might want to do that play and before I would post that good review I would friend they accepted my friendship one of the first things that would come up on their feet is my friends they almost have all accepted my friendship I mean it's like nothing just say yes I feel like why am I so embarrassed I'm a person they're a person that's what my face my story said any strategies like that or anything else that you've come up against or any change that you've seen in terms of the way that you feel like you're perceiving some of these activists and directors who didn't state it I don't know I don't understand I mean personally in terms of you guys going to people feeling like a place where people read more feeling like your place aren't feeling like there's something that is not changing and leaving you behind or feeling like you since you've just begun your career are seeing so many doors open and look at your restrictions and feel like you have to benefit from this and you can question it what is actually your conscious I mean I think I really meant that unconscious gender bias and I think also in a broader way just like unconscious bias towards like stories that are not super linear and specifically in kind of like that climax I think I've just become more and more aware as you like read those good reviews just kind of like what the language is saying kind of language choice is going on I had a review it was a positive review but it described my work which I think is not kind of linear and it lives a little more in the realm of magical realism described I think by writing it was like courageous childlike like I was like if you describe a male playwright as this there's something wrong with that it was a positive review and so I think I kind of got back and thought about how I describe what your playwork is like are you describing play as like whimsical, fantastical like joyful or are you describing it as like epic, mythical it's the same play but I think you can just view it for such a way to do that and do you feel like the blur makers and institutions have been writing those words and that's why it filters down to the reviewers or do you think it's for your own words sometimes it's your own words it's if you're writing the blur I think sometimes the reviewers and the people who are kind of writing about new plays are not so much writing about the plays they're writing about the playway that you know it's like that theater study that they did on which play it was a study that had a male name on it or a female play and I think there's a study that I think is so large that it's hard to forget who wrote it and so I think you know trying to like after it you describe the play and you know make it exciting rather than trying to describe like you know like a young woman like some of the I feel like some playworks describe aren't just trying to describe it but I also feel like there's I've noticed this a lot there's I think there's like a really good plays that are not by white people I think there's like a lot of unconscious bias that goes into how they look at the world and I think that comes out a lot just they don't even know if it's something or making a huge generalization and they don't have a lot of physical power and it slides you know if you couple that with the women's stuff if you're writing stuff that's quirky or musical it does tend to kind of take away the power of the play and put it to the sun you know is strange and I guess I think there's a lack of death in an understanding world that may not even prove your own and kind of judging them that I think does diminish more but I do feel like what's changed for me to answer your question now that I understand it is I think there's been from outrage and anger which I certainly felt at the beginning of my career was seeing a lot of men on a pier you know like two buckets you know but I think that the outrage has kind of switched into two really actions what actions are you thinking what are you doing and sort of also partnering with these groups you know you know we partnered with some really really big groups of players with some sort of sort of like put those particular players so I think there's like this even to speak with death I think there's this sense that we really just we're going to change it by doing it together there's no just anymore I found that to be helpful you know it takes away my despair when I'm having it to really think about how we are and then I feel like you know the action model of what we're doing is definitely different that's why I'm coming to you last Marshall because you're the shit, the pivot action and it is to be a part of action and I know that there was there really felt like an upswing in some hall and there was a lily and I know you have many thoughts on this and you probably don't know anything but we used to use that and it has inspired these individual action stuff that's so exciting that your players talk about it so is there a question? there's a question what happens to get the critical mass going for the moment how long you've been doing it how long you've been teaching women how long you've been happy there was a critical mass moment and where is it now and what's going to happen with this new account I have a copy of the account but I can't read to you from it that's some of this later yes we will I've been teaching children for 21 years now and we've been put to preventive every single year every single year that's part of our 50% women and we also had a lot of it was absolutely part of our so the people there became a thing known in a lot of the jewelry art folks as the white guys slot there was one of them and they all everyone knew that that's what we were doing and it was a little bit started as selfish on our part and you have a group a group that's non-competitive in terms of subject matter and whatever you get everybody's free to write the plays they want to write so that's why we did it initially and then other other knowledge you get which is that as these writers these great writers go out into the world the men were getting productions and what ever and we're having trouble so that was accumulating in my mind and then this year 2010 when as you say there were five of us just a bitch session and a mess between each other about why in this year 2010 when there were 51 productions by women or they had women as authors advisors as good not actors but women and the actual production and creation process why including Melissa James Gibson who was declared by the Times to be the play after a year why were there no nominations? there were none there were no odys there were nothing there were no nominations we were just in this a messaging rage and life I was said let's just give our own we have awards and so then we had about a month to go and we threw the thing together we named it for a little moment because of just the nerdiness of her and that press she's gotten for being so outspoken and writing so well hello and so we just called it the award and then we decided the winners would be the revolution and the presentation so I was like it's over but whether it was the first year because he was on the board immediately we formed a board of just eight people and we decided that the whole idea first of all was to honor and celebrate women who had not their share or anybody's share of attention and raise so the first year what we did was just made a ceremony that just it was a ceremony full of joy and laughter the presenters were all down there they were help up and they would read the five sentences for them and no more and so it didn't grow non to non it was it was like a non-stupid in any way it says when you two are two you two are two yeah well and so then so we had Jim Sanford who was always an operating imperative to this theater you know gave us the theater and we just had so much fun and you know John still gave us $15,000 and that's for all of my years in the drama I vaguely asked for things and but you know the guilt is really 45% women so like everybody and we had so much fun but then we thought well let's A let's do that again let's celebrate women composers let's do a cabaret let's celebrate women composers who has Broadway star just like an eagle piled and then we began this like oh okay wait we have more to do we have more and more now we're like whoa wait it's funny people they're starting to take over what can we really do and what can we really do well and still have time to write and hang you know so we are now doing some significant we Julia who is the Vice President of the Loice was the person who conducted that research about the play you're talking about about the place that was part of her early study so she did a study in 2009 that did an initial sort of approach to account idea Emily Sands from Princeton who was then a student of Steven Leavitt so this is all like a science approved not just like us colleagues so that count which we'll talk about some other time or now, I don't know, I guess now right? Sure so the count was a huge project in which the Queen monitored Julia and Rebecca Stumpf at the Guild and literally an army of volunteers we twisted ours to get people to ours I don't know I don't know alright, yeah so first of all the drama skill regional surveyed all the theaters and all the theaters in America and we counted the productions that went more than that were 21 days or more that's what you had to do to count also in order to count you had to have not died before 1965 so if you've died before 1965 like check-outs you would not be counted in the count because this is a contemporary work and so Shakespeare is not there you know so then we had three years of results and those three years were counted and vetted and cleaned up and phone calls were made and is this really the season you did and did you really and what were the protagonists in these plays and what is the gender and what is the base and so there's this massive amount of information that Julia and her team at the Guild created and we're going to report on that officially at the drama skill national conference in July just tomorrow and give a huge presentation and the numbers are there's more information coming in other words the race numbers the what the race numbers we know but the protagonist numbers those numbers are coming but basically the facts are the ends and the facts are grim but better better than 17% where it was five years ago when we started where the literally started 17% now the numbers are up to 25% in New York City and big cities including some other incredible successes Seattle you know there are some cities that are just really doing well I think Saturday's counting rooms because of somebody who it is South Seattle or Kansas in Chicago but there's some person on the ground they're making a big difference and whether that's a rep or whether that's a human or whether that's an artistic I mean I'm like a board member of civilians so you know these numbers we'll start to show you but basically that's the the result of the count is that basically in New York City and the big cities in the northeast in the west in the Pacific west you know we're doing better but 20% let's just say naturally 20% still means let's just say I'm preempting myself about my speech at lunch today but that still means that four out of every five sentences you hear are said by men oh you're really weird world to miss four out of every five sentences said by men well that's what it gives in the theater four out of every five sentences you hear and that's been true you know for the history of the narrative so this is like this is a serious thing to come about so this is what makes your work and the people's work you know of every individual woman that still goes like talking to you right it's really crucial it's also crucial to advocacy and the support that we're doing so the count is a big thing we're gonna put out those numbers we're not going to blame and shame overtly we can't just provide people with enough I want to tell you a conversation that Lisa Crowe had with our board really Lisa Crowe and she is a playwright and president of the public the public has had the worst gender ratio in the world he produced he produced three plays by women in the last 11 years three lots of women work scurrying around in the downstairs doing workshops and doing what not but like three so Lisa went into his office and she said you know the count is coming out and and you're gonna look really bad so wait this is not on the record record you can't tell this story be recorded alright live streaming and we have to talk to him about this and she really did his he said a hard year he said a devastating year she went in to talk to him and she was talking about a particular writer woman and she would like to see done which after this conversation is from or like that he didn't went for it they were last year at Shakespeare in the Park. There was that public season and it was 50-50 women and I was just overjoyed. So he is on the team, he has got the message. And he's a, do you think, anyway, here's one part of the conversation which was that he said about this one particular writer, well, you know, I just would, I like her as a person but I just feel like she writes the same play all the time. And Lisa said back to him, like Mike Daisy? Do you know the work of Mike Daisy? Okay. And suddenly I was going to follow up. I had the idea that I'd make a judgment call that the same play all the time written by a woman is not something I want to do but I will produce the same play all the time that I'm in. So those kind of breakthroughs are going to happen as we take with us the information from account and go to speak to the people, the cause. I just really want to say one thing, a big thing, I mean, I would love to, well, I'm going to sound weird. Does this come off my lunchtime? Am I like, no. No. I'm sorry. You do whatever you want. Okay, here's the deal. There is a very bad question that many of you will get asked and all of us have been asked over and over again which is why are plays made women not being produced if they are under-produced or whatever the question is that someone has to interview or just ask this all the time? And the answer to this is choice, right? Not only the great national banner of America writing out a quantity but someone chooses what to do. The artistic directors and the producers choose not to do the plays, not to do those plays. That's the only answer that there is. It's not that the work is one thing or another thing. It's not that the plays are, especially now that you guys have made the plays all totally available, there's not even that. It's simply and purely a matter of choice. Artistic directors, so this is the answer that you all have to give. I mean, why don't you take the play? From now on, I'm going to have to say, it's not like, well, I don't know. Maybe it's our familiarity with our work. That's not, no. The reason the plays are not being produced is that someone decides not to produce them. Or to produce them. It's a really simple, simple, simple idea. That's what has to be, that's going to be a change. That choice, whether it's habit, whether it's bias, whether it's a feeling on natural, that they know what their women take it by ear, they just want to see, those artistic directors are making those decisions. They're choosing their seasons. Yeah, and that's what makes, that's what, that's the reason. So once you get it to that place, then you say, oh, okay, well, then what has to be work time? Change how they make their decisions. Change the decisions they make, you know, make decisions based on their actual audience instead of their perception of their audience. Do a survey. Hello, find out what your audience would like. Find out, kind of, those things. And that's part of what the Lilly says. Now we are really fighting that big battle of this one-on-one, we are leaning on people really hard about this, making these choices with wisdom and clarity and that kind of sense of what world they're actually living in. The other thing, the Lilly, the Liz are doing this quickly, we are doing a summer colony initiative, family-friendly summer colony initiative. We realized most summer writing columnist, the ones that send into place onto big, to big national attention and get them done on Broadway, those summer qualities are just meant for pink writers, not children. And what happens with writers with children just don't apply, or they don't go, or they give up and they have to decide between my children and my work. Well, that's not a choice, I'm gonna say, with my kids. Or, if I take my kids to this colony, then they're gonna end up in some house over at some other street, and they're gonna be with Manny, and I'm not gonna see them in a schedule. I mean, Manny Greenfield at the Boystown, Philip Humberg at Sundance. I mean, everybody is in this with us. Weddy, Goldberg at the O'Neill, we are everybody is on this family family with Colony, and it has to happen. It cannot, and men who are in charge of their child care cannot be forced to leave their kids behind. They need programming that allows them to do their work and leave their kids in the summertime, because anything else is just ridiculous. And that's, that's, that's really good. A lot, a lot of action from everyone on this panel, individually, and, I mean, the name of this panel was, gender parity, why does it matter? I think that you answered that very often before the slide from Benz that pretty much nails it. But I wondered if you guys had any other thoughts on that before I just got to the question. Why is it important to you? Why is it important in general? Is there a way to articulate it? Because I think we do talk about the ways to do it, and I'm not sure, and you know, if you're talking about choice, we have to understand why. I just want to quote Marcia. I always quote Marcia, but it's silly when she's here. You know, we're hearing all these voices of men which is here in place, women, and these are some wonderful, wonderful plays by men. But what if we just decided that from now on, all the plays that we hear are going to take place at night? And we're just going to ignore what happens in the day. It wouldn't be a deal of being part of our lives. And that's, I feel like that's what it is. It's like, there's a lot going on that women are experiencing and have to talk about. And what, you know, why make a decision not to hear that part. I'm just quoting you, don't share with me. That's part of the bad news. I think it's, it's the bad cycle too, because when you don't see your experience reflected, you become disenfranchised. You feel like you don't matter, and that reinforces the narrative. And then there is shame in like, oh, well, my story's not important because four out of five other stories are more important, you know? And so that, it's a cycle of not only gender, you know, racial affecting, you know, ethnic diversity, and so the only way you can do it is all supporting each other and enlisting behind the video. The other thing it makes, it's an intricate recipe for success. Like, that's the thing that like, the problem with me and the whole experience is that plays I wouldn't do really, really well. It's not like, it's not like they're failing every year. You know, and so, so to me the success element is really what's interesting and relevance. Like, I think we all have to think about how to keep this form relevant, you know, to the people who come in and how to keep the audiences young and how to have their experiences reflected back to them. And that means a diversity of voices. You know, I always think like, I'm a New Yorker and I think like, I want a theater to be like a subway car. You know, that's my idea. A good season would look like, you know, like by old people and young people and brown people and people you don't know where they're from and, you know, and that's like, that's like what I wanted to be because I want to know all of those worlds, you know, as well as like, you know, the fifth stop rover and the, you know, whatever. I'm not, it's not like every play has to be a movie but I also just think like it's foolish to push people out of this very, you know, this small world that's, you know, theater is, you know, we have to, it's imperative. We want to keep it alive and vital. You know, there's a lot of other things that we can do, you know, because I've been watching a play, you know, it's a lot of effort. So, yeah, so that, that, that to me feels like what's vital about it, you know, vital. I think like, like the diversity of like stories and like the diversity of ways you can tell stories is so important, like feeling a lot of artistic directors, you know, because of their critics or because of what they think their audience is like, are just so afraid of like trying to tell a story in a different way. I think like, I don't think all, all female playwrights, you know, you know, tell stories in a different way, but I think, you know, they're, they're, they're just like, sometimes like an artistic director who gets a play that feels, you know, more magical or more musical or doesn't follow that structure. And I feel like they're just as valid as the other plays. You know, it's like, I think we have to believe it, like not all theater experiences, you know, that playwrights like, you know, work towards that climax and climax in the end of the evening. I feel like it is valid for, you know, how boltals I have in the future. And I feel like if you kind of think about it in that sense, I feel like our two theater actors would be like, oh, right, it's a different thing a lot of times in people who are particularly valid. Part of why I've been advocating for cinema is I have a five-year-old son, and I want him to grow up in a different world than I grew up in, and I don't want him to have a model of options, but he has to work hard to find alternate ways of thinking and sitting in the world. I want him to have, like, two more up in a world that is where human flourish and is maximized. And so I've been doing a house in DC for three years now, you know, working with day-to-day people just to analyze my little corner of this country. You know, we had 21% by the way in the first year and we had 24 the second year holding up this mirror to our artist record. It's happened the third year, and of course, you have the women's voices theater, but still it was made over our city, and produced 50-plus rural per meter by then. Yeah. So, you know, if I can, you make my son have a better than I did. That's the most important thing. In fact, that's just a lot of these children who live in different worlds than I did. Can you please talk a little bit about your account, because I'm just so interested and excited by this. I was like, my one question is, like, are the productions that they're like, these are by female playwrights or artists in color, you know, other types of voices, are they the productions that are getting produced on the main stage, or are they the ones that are like, in our workshop production, or in our, you know, second stage, or, you know, like, what level? I mean, what level? Every stage. Because I feel like that somewhere, where I'm playing a lot of, you know, where they put like, the diverse voices in like, the small hole in the back. Totally. I mean, I'm like, how do we get them on the main stage? How do you get them to, like, kind of be swimmin' in like, a big way instead of, you know. I think everyone has to sort of move forward, move forward, and then try to just move forward with all of the attractions, and that's a good question, just like, what are you doing? First, I want to say, I'm so moved by all of the reasons and I thought that that was incredibly helpful to me, because again, I tell you, I don't have those reasons to share, and I thought that was amazing, and I want to open it up to more questions about that, about the camp, about the stories, about everything else we talked about in ways that you guys, everyone can be active, yes, Ms. Leslie. Hi, I'd like to weigh in on where all of you are right now, and I also really want to say thank you for everything, I feel like everything you said is informative and important and inspiring, and it's great to hear it. But in terms of what we're talking about, I think that one of the reasons why women need to be welcomed and that we need to be given an equal platform, and I'm not saying that all men right this way and all women right that way, but one of the things that women do come from is a kind of intuition, which by the way, is not a word that's usually applied to men and is a certain form of intelligence, I think, and word applied to men, it would be considered an intelligence. However, that thing, that thing that we do, this intuitive intelligence that we have, is something that is so deserving of attention and platform, particularly now, I personally think the whole planet politically would be better if women's voices were just given equal time, if we could just influence the way things are right now, because we do come from a place that is internal and lush and messy and has its own thing going for it, and we need it, the world needs it. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, is that me? You. Two years ago, Joe Dowling, artistic director at the Guthrie Theater, announced a season that was 99% male playwrights and directors, right? I think there was one female director and I think there was one playwright of color male. And there was some brouhaha over that in the press, which fell sort of, Marcia, when you said, we don't want to shame an artistic director into making a choice, but so Arthur, so the thing at the public happened in a closed room until the live stream. So, I guess my question is, are there any efforts to take this information to boards of trustees where the conversation can also be meaningful to the press and to audiences and communities before it becomes so reactive that it's just embarrassing for a theater? Well, can I answer that? Yes. I don't even break the rules. Michael, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna give the guild and the lilies are giving an exclusive to the New York Times to break the news of the count and the details of the count and the specifics of the count, the cities, the regions, the whatever. And then the results for a particular theater, like if you wanted to check on it, Arthur, you could, as I did last week, check, you know, and see what the, because we know that. We know exactly what their numbers are. I think that people, the reason I said about the shame and the blame is the, is that what we want is for the, I should have, the should and ought to, we want that to come from inside them or from their boards of directors. Now, boards of directors are very interesting to me right now. And if we don't have an access to a list of boards of directors of all the theaters nationwide, I would like to have that list because I think those people has been really sitting down on the job about looking at the season and determining if the season serves the audience. I think they've been thinking about the roof or the, or whatever they think about in those rooms. And they really need to be holding their artistic directors to some standard, a parody standard. That makes sense for their community, whether it's diversity, whether it's movement, whether whatever it is, a standard that makes them able to hold their heads high as a theater that speaks for the whole community, that speaks to the community, from their community. So that's I think that, I think it's great when newspapers do the shaming and blaming for us. I just meant that we, the Lilies and the Guild are not gonna shame and blame. We're gonna let the press do it. I can't believe it. That's amazing, that's amazing. And I also wanna say that while these things, now I'm thinking also about the second town hall we have to do more of a production direction. And I've seen some action, maybe not as awesome as some of the other people who were at that event. The Shaming and Blaming turns into this eye-opening that you're talking about. So there's a way to kind of lift that, I think it may begin with that, and they may receive it initially as the Shaming and Blaming, but it becomes this other blossoming, amazing, yes, and fitting that goes forward. It becomes productive. So I, like the vocabulary, we have a choice and we can be either one way or the other. Like this benefit that we're bringing to the people. You're aware of what's going on. And when you look at the rest of the big changes of mind that America has had over the last, say, 20 years, I mean, we have changed our minds on, you know, marriage equality. We have changed our minds on our asses. Right, Jess? Right? Oh my God! Okay, well that's a game of pills. Yeah. Yeah, but also you all get to choose. You know, I want to unpack this a little bit because my whole career has just flashed before my eyes from being a young single parent, you know, in my 20s to getting Joe Packard, the public, and Gordon Davidson at the taper, you know, these things done. And then, you know, supporting me in that. And then my sort of not thinking about diversity or, you know, age or woman, man. As the years, you know, went on, things obviously happened in my life and in what was acceptable or not. But here they were doing a play called Confessions of a Female Disorder in which the two main characters are women and they kiss. People in the audience walked out, but I still got the play gun. And then over the years, being a woman, writing about all kinds of things, not a couple of plays about gay women. But then onward and upward, Marcia knows this because she handed me an award for a play, Map of Downton Rescue. It had eight characters in it. It wasn't gay themed in any way. It won a lot of awards, I won't go into it, but in workshops at all those principal places and on everyone's short list and it's never been introduced. Susan Bernfield gave me a workshop in Georgia for my next play, which I've turned to title it, so I won't talk about it. But that was about putting on a show about a TV show about lesbians. And one of my agents dumped me this day because he thought this will never get done. And then I, of course, being, you know, a sad woman. Just. I went to bed. I don't know what it was. It taught me how to schmooze with people. I put not just Facebook, but that is so encouraging. But all of the web and the internet and that show has over 40 million views now. And it won the first Writers Guild of America award. Now I'm back with a new play. And I'm like, okay, I may be that little scared. I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was. Little scared. I don't, you know, how do I break through this? And why is it so wide for me? Part of the reason now. I'm looking at it. To add to the parody issue is how old I am. And maybe in the new play of the age of the characters in it. There are women in their 60s God help me. Everything you have to say and it is such value to me. But it's really interesting for all of us to look at in our lives. You know, what has affected and how we have affected. Television has more female creators, female producers. Because what is talented about it? On soap opera, selling soap. Women have the buying power. Why are we afraid of this? Women make money. Women buy things. Why shouldn't a producer and a female producer act like a stand-up? Just one other thing. Through the years too. Susan accepted here. And the second stage as an exception. But through the years there were some problems with women producers. Or women, you know, literary managers. Because afraid to upset the apple cart. I think that's changing. But maybe not. I mean that's just something else to be considered here. Because we have like three more minutes at the home. Yeah. I'm Cynthia just playing. Thank you for being here. I think I have two questions. One is about a year ago I did an account for South Florida. How many artistic directors and women were replaced? Directed by women? The Carminello Awards? Who was winning them? Numbers were really dismal. The vast majority of artistic directors in South Florida are men. So basically how do we get all these standards for changing our minds? Because in South Florida it's their artistic directors basically. Who are choosing their seasons. And then we'll hear what's in the stories. Even though they're doing shows for women audiences. So that's one question is how can we encourage these artistic directors to choose more risks? My other question is I've been watching on the internet about all these numbers and moves and the list of 300 women. And these are women who have gotten somebody important to read their scripts. And maybe get one production of them. So they're already, they're kind of doing that 17%. So my next question is, it kind of goes to less than 80%. 80% know we're doing really good work. Getting moved up. So that 17% swells. Because it doesn't look to me like 17%. They're getting more recognition from that. They're getting moved along. How can we get back to doing that? Can I just offer just a one-sentence thing of how you influence an artistic director? I started a personal little revolt this year, which I encourage all of you to join me in. And I've done some information on these, and these kind of roots. I was feeling like, hey, hey. When you've got a subscription announcement, this happened to me with a quite famous theater in New York. I'm not getting a subscription announcement, and it says, and I see that it's all men. And I write back immediately, and I go, oh gee, I would subscribe, but you're doing all the place by men. Do you not know any place by women? Because I get that it's the press of great placements, and I'm very well with them. Like, say, okay, I embarrassed myself enough today, and I'm like, oh, we're out, so I won't say anything. And I'm addressing yourself to a subscription office, and saying, I'll subscribe if you do place by women. So then they'll do it up, and finally, the boss greets that. Because a little person goes like, oh look, we just got this, or we're getting 15 of these. So I'm saying, when you write to them, directly write to them back and say, you don't get my money, I don't get the kind of fees, and I'm interested in it. So I want to start your questions very important. I want to skip to this though. It does relate, so one of the things about unconscious bias, which is a terrific phrase, but one of the key parts of that is unconscious, and I think I saw someone who said like two thirds of people are able to identify unconscious bias in others, but very bad. It's unconscious. The Mike Daisy question got him to recognize the unconscious nature of the bias. So I guess in terms of turning this into an action, Oscar will listen to Lisa Cronk. Is there a way to systematize those one-on-one conversations so that like I'm going to identify and decapitize the Lisa Cronk for a while because everyone can see this data and they can see the numbers and they can see how all those other artistic directors should be making different choices. How do you get them to be the friend or the trusted woman or man to say, now look at what you, the choices you make, like how can you choose differently? Like find a way, find out who those people are to make that. This goes back to Michael's issue about the boards. You know, that person may be on the board of directors. That's my personal view at the moment. That person is somebody in that community on that board. But you're exactly right. Is that personal? I felt like if you have a modern foundation, a time-worn foundation, I think you go to funders, too. The big funders, you know, and have enough of that instead of the later chat. It doesn't take a friend to go, okay. It's a friend. Exactly. Very proud to have funders. They're your luncheon with the funders, yeah. At TCG, I had an artistic director from DC come up to me and said, I had said this is one of the things about shame. Like I don't do the data count to shame anyone. I'm just calling it from there. You can see what you see in that mirror, right? And if you feel shame, well, that quick does your feeling of shame. And I didn't have any boo-boo on it. Some of you can hear it, and you're going, Oh, I look horrible. Well, I had an idea. He's now in DC now, but he was in the first and second years of my account. And he came to me and said, I do feel shame. I felt horrified. And we were in a man working toward gender parity panel. And he came to me and said, I'm here because I know now that I need to do better. Right? So it isn't going to just dispassionately say here the numbers. Thank you all so much.