 kick things off. Okay the recording has begun. All right welcome everybody to the Hyperledger Technical Steering Committee everybody is welcome to attend and participate in this meeting so long as you abide by the required antitrust policy that you see in front of you and abide by our community code of conduct which is basically to make sure that you're respectful of all of the other participants. We have a good number of updates later in the agenda today so we're going to try to allocate enough time to get through all of those. I hope that everybody's had the chance to go through and do their pre-reads of them so that we can primarily just ask for questions and clarifications during that that period. So flowing into the announcements here I don't think there's anything new to announce with the CICD other than there's the link of how to get involved there if you are somebody with an interest in how we evolve those capabilities. Rye you want to give us the announcement on the fabric workshop there? Sure so July 8, 9, 10, 11 at the LF offices in San Francisco. We're going to be holding a well a four-day meeting to develop the curricula for the Hyperledger certified fabric developer program. This is very similar to the fabric administrator and sawtooth administrator certification and training that we developed. This is in-person and we don't provide for travel or we don't provide a hotel but we do feed you when you're there and we are looking for some matter experts to get on board and help us develop the curriculum and Dan participated in one of those efforts for sawtooth so he has some expertise. If you want to get involved get in touch. Thanks. Thanks Rye. I was muted I was like hey no I have something to say about the CICD. We re-evaluated our choice to or I re-evaluated my choice to keep the CICD section on the Wiki private. There was some confidential information there that I have you know like corporate expenditures and stuff like that on this. I have kept that private but the whole section is now public. You can search for CICD in the search bar. I'll be dropping links into the Wiki so you can see the meeting minutes and kind of see where the discussion is at right now. We're trying to solve docker and docker that's the big problem so if you got any interest in that we have a call tomorrow morning and we'd love to see you there. All right thanks Dave. Is Karen on? I saw her joining. Yeah all right. I see Karen listed in the attendees there who want to give us a quick shout out for the Sao Paulo bootcamp. Looks like Karen is looking for volunteers there and I think what we're doing with the bootcamps is we're trying to ramp new contributors into the projects or to develop on top of the projects. Right we're looking for people who can show up and help us get new contributors on board and I know that Nathan has been to two of the bootcamps and perhaps you know he could speak to the experience but Karen you're still muted so if you have anything to say. Okay I encourage people to just go ahead and follow that link then and that will take you to some of the information about that event. I guess particularly if you are a Portuguese speaker that would be a welcome addition to that volunteer staff. Yeah that was one of the big things about the Hong Kong one. Oh sorry Karen go ahead. Yeah no no it's actually Daniela somehow Karen's muted. It can't unmute. That is correct. We are also looking for English speakers you know who want to run sessions and we do have you know volunteers on site that can help with translation and kind of doing that. So you know a key thing here is obviously just like we did in Hong Kong is do translation of materials so we have a very enthused and very active you know active population in Brazil that want to get involved so if you even want to consider it please reach out to us talk to us about it and we'll see how we can make it happen and even if we want to assist in having some people on the ground lead the sessions and you want to mentor them that it's fantastic as well just let us know. This is how we scale. Brigado. All right let's go ahead and move along then. We have just a few items to go through with with some discussion. For a while now we've had some backlog items that relate to the project lifecycle. David put together a few versions of some thoughts when this had come up earlier we recently had another thread on projects and sub projects and there's been some dialogue also about how we deal with with projects that are maybe at the end of their life cycle which isn't something that we've we've dealt with in the longevity of hyper leisure yet and it seems like maybe the most efficient way to draw this together is if we could put together a small committee led by some TSE member or members that can come back to the TSE with a recommendation on any updates that we need to that lifecycle. I think the the original and subsequent versions of the lifecycle I recall being heavily influenced by our nose experience and I wonder if if our know if you'd be willing to take point on this activity. Yeah I'll be happy to do that. Thanks our now. Mick it looks like you are on now or maybe working your way on. Excellent so you would also express some some views in this area. Yeah I think I think Salona and I were talking also about the group subgroup issues as well last week so. Okay great. Happy to express my opinion in there but I will refer to our nose experience so. Great. So Dan yes Mark I can interject here for a minute. So the group subgroup thing is something we probably need to talk about in the future as well but is that something this group should go off and look at since it's related to life cycle or is that a separate thing completely. Mick was that an illusion to working groups or to projects. To projects. I mean we had that we've had that groups or project sub project kind of discussion multiple times and I think at some point we're going to have to roll it into one of these bigger discussions. Yeah I don't know that I would want to get too distracted by that if I may say put it that way. Well I mean I think there is general questions that have been brought up with regard to the life cycle just in terms of you know we don't always have clearly defined criteria for one transition to another is it possible to get to go back into the the the life cycle steps and you know I think we can already look at all of that and with that getting into the question of the subprojects and once we've done that I think we could indeed entertain the idea of you know tackling the subproject but I wouldn't want to put that up front. I agree but I think they're kind of related in that if something the the life cycle I think of a subproject is going to be a lot easier to define right because subprojects can pop in and out of existence under the governance of the the maintainers of a project right. Fabric can create a new SDK that lives for six months they decide they don't want to do it and they can close the repo and it's not a big deal you know compared to having something spread out on top. I think they're related. No but I don't disagree with that but I think what I was trying to say is I I would think that the sub project stuff is will be easier to deal with once we have tackled the life cycle project question and then this is all I don't you know I don't think we want to deal with the whole thing at once this is what I'm saying. I see what you're saying I agree. Sequencing these discussions makes an awful lot of sense. Yeah I do think that they're I do think they're related but I think we can make progress on the life cycle one without that the project subproject is going to be a much harder discussion. It seems like I agree that's why I'm easy then to say let's not mix everything at once because I think we can make progress on life cycle outside of the sub project discussions and I don't want to derail that you know fail to to to grab that low-hanger low low hanging fruit. Yeah and if it's if it's not too distracting if you can consider scope especially in the entrance criteria for for new projects maybe make a little headway on on the sub project subproject without opening too much of that can of worms. Right. As far as timeline do you have a sense with whether you'd be able to come back in something like two weeks three weeks a month needs some time to reflect on that but yeah it's a bit hard to say upfront without having a first discussion with others who are interested in participating and get a sense of where people stand and how big of an issue we have to deal with. Fair enough. But I'm happy to you know for us to have a first you know chat about this and then get a better sense and I can tell you more next time. Alright. The next opportunity. Okay great so I will I will leave it to you guys then to pull together people for the right forms and and so forth whether that's email chat voice to to move that along. Okay. Alright thanks. Alright Dave you have something on the agenda here for the did work. Yeah so I'm gonna keep this like two to three minutes because we have a ton of quarterly reports to get to. I know all of you have heard the decentralized identity people talking about did a lot if you've even been tangentially involved with Indy and you know maybe some of the other projects out in Ethereum like U-Port. When I so Solana myself Brian we're all at the internet identity workshop a few weeks ago and I presented some work that I had been working on for a year or so ever since Rai and Tracy and I had discovered that we have a DCO problem in our code basis I had just started thinking about this in conjunction with what Indy can offer and decentralized identifiers and I've been slowly chewing on it for like a year and then Richard Esplan forced my hand when he proposed an internship project of signing git commit using DID and so I decided to email him like a huge essay if you ask him it's like five pages long explaining all the intricacies that I had worked out in my own time and then I went to IIW to present it and it got a lot of traction there's a group already of about eight contributors who are contributing on an active basis it's currently in my personal repo on GitHub the W3C did working group has already accepted the DID method spec in their registry and we're just trying to finalize that this has a huge impact on the future of all software development not just hyper ledger and I just wanted to keep you guys up to date on it if this will allow like the did admit the did git method is a way of normalizing how we would store identity data inside a git repo because repos are essentially like a blockchain so you could use a git repo as an anchor of trust but this also has implications for let's say we have hyper ledger identities anchored on say the software network you know on Indy we could use those identities to sign our code to and with some small tweaks to our governance and acceptance criteria for commits we could drive our DCO problem out of existence we could make sure that we have a hundred percent signed commits and and acceptance of the DCO and our licensing and our code of conduct and all that so if you want to know more about that come and contact me and I'll plug you into the existing group outside hyper ledger I know this is kind of an odd place to talk about it but I'm thinking that we should probably bring it in as a hyper ledger lab because it's a very narrow thing but I just want to let everybody know what's going on this is an example of what we on the hyper ledger staff worry about right on a day-to-day basis and this actually is one of those rare cases where it's translating into code and a standard and hopefully widespread adoption right I think I'm at about three minutes thank them all right thanks Dave all right task force for the convector yeah I mean just in today before I mean I just want to put out there I posted a response to your email with questions you never responded to so thanks Arno I'm still trying to dig out I've been gone for like two weeks I was on vacation and then face-to-face in New York and all that stuff so I I will get to it I did see it I apologize my hearty response thank you go ahead then sorry okay convector is a lab that we accepted you know a little bit ago and it's an interesting you know smart contract development engine and what we want to do is see what would that take to bring that in as a project if it is worthy of becoming a project and taking a look at it from the standpoint of could we get this to be part of composer and perhaps a composer part of composer or a composer replacement or something along those lines so that is the point of the task force if you want to join get in contact thanks okay so if somebody is looking at getting involved or learning more about convector they would go to the labs repositories then and look for a convector repository yep and hop on chat etc and there's there's documentation for that on the labs repo question that was a question is there more documentation on it there I will have to go and take a look I don't know that outside my head I'm gonna guess the answer is yes but okay thank you yeah and I think for new kinds of transaction execution it'd be great to take a look at that in in the context of the transact project that we had just that we had just approved recently so maybe keep that in mind as you're taking a look at that too right quarterly reports I saw that that mark did get the PSWG in very recently but I don't think people have had a chance to read through that yet so why don't we set that one for next week and we can have a broader discussion on that one mix I think mark is looking for some feedback directly to the PSWG in that discussion as well can we go ahead then and move straight into the bureau update I think that one has been up for long enough that that people should have had an opportunity to get through it just to maybe get things going with that one question that I had as I looked through that you may have already responded me on on chat notice yet this morning but you mentioned that one of the new features in borough is that state is stored in a mutable forest for those of us who are in fairly unchanging corpses of trees at the moment you want to maybe explain what that is sure yeah I picked up and so the mutable forest is that's actually the top level object and the the change in a more understandable ways we we had a type of Merkle tree which is a version of Merkle tree called IVL that came out of tenement what the forest idea does is arranges groups of these trees where each tree has its root state roots in a top level tree so it's kind of a hierarchy of trees because we an IVL tree doesn't have a stable prefix route like a prefix tree would but actually it's very useful to have that for separate parts of the state so it's kind of our hybrid prefix or Patricia tree over an AVL tree the mutable thing is probably a bit of a red herring so you write into the mutable tree which is your working set for the for the block as the block gets applied and then once that's saved all of the the trees underneath that mutable forest gets saved into a immutable forest and you have access to every immutable forest for every previous version so yeah it's it's kind of an internal thing but it was it was a bit of a reasonably big change on the on the state back end but the upshot is we can query kind of independently and get smaller proofs for various elements of state at any block with all reads going back to an immutable version of the tree forest and then the mutable bit is just mutable in the sense that it's being bashed as a block is applied and if we crash will throw away the mutable bit so we are still immutable too okay and you'd also mentioned proofs in that is that related to the concept of state proofs from from Indy not from Indy so this is this is Merkel tree proofs so this is not something that is directly exposed but is yeah yeah this is just a but it is a core feature of the the state mechanism for future stuff for light clients and for some cross-train chain stuff so we provide like a Merkel path and yeah yeah it's a medical path all and there's also some range proofs and some other stuff yeah okay cool all right other questions on the borough update I have one higher level question for Silas so boroughs kind of been the ethereum-esque project in in hyperledger I was just curious kind of moving forward does the borough team plan to sort of stay in lockstep with like the changes in ethereum 2 when you ask them and those sort of things or does it is it more have a life of its own at this point yeah that's a good question and so I have followed with some interest some of the ethereum 2 work it is quite sort of distributed that work and a lot of it has moved quite slowly and Sean who actually prepared the borough update and is on the call now has been working on some interesting wasm stuff with his celebrity compiler that compiles to wasm and I think that we're gonna end up kind of experimenting with borough and a wasm before he wasm is really pinned down but we will certainly try and make the most of any standards that may actually make sense for us coming from from ethereum 2 and then I think the other direction for borough is kind of I mean we run it in production there's something that some vague definitions of what a sidechain is but there is a general desire for us to provide sidechain features so this includes things like asset transfer from mainline ethereum or the running offloading of smart contracts that could be run on public ethereum and for zero or small cost and this kind of thing so in terms of the kind of general direction that's the other thing we'd like to do that that involves having that impedance match with public ethereum last time I looked he wasm like didn't have a clear ABI set out for it but I could be out of date hi this is Sean and the other thing to point out is we we updated our testing to facility 05 and we added some opcodes for facility 05 so we at the moment we are keeping track of facility as is okay great yeah really appreciate the people not the people not burst in perhaps in public here so the sort of ethereum 2 work there's various things around execution engine based on a subset of wasm and also scaling proposal which is kind of linked to that but then what public theorem has is quite a significant weight of finding a way to make all the existing contracts work so there are such things as evm's written in facility which are very horrifying and and the idea of sort of compiling them to wasm and then running your old contracts and that and there's various things going around but it's it's it's changing the jet engine and flight stuff so I suspect we will get to some kind of wasmy thing at which point we will also see if we can this is anything we can share or use around transact I think but we'll probably end up there before public theorem is settled on that stuff I really like the idea of a solidity a compiler for solidity to usm and I mean that might even be a separable kind of chunk that if it was something that would be appealing to other parts of you know the ethereum community the public ethereum community like if we you know have some sort of an open door to them I mean I just that's kind of fun and it might be a way to reach out even beyond the existing borough user base just a thought this is fine hi this is Sean so I'm working on the I'm so long and in so I've got some basic contracts working but I really could use some some help so if anyone's interested in working on that particular piece I'm very happy to work with them so what we should mention here and we try to plug this as much as we can and so long is project that Sean started it's it's a hyperlegion lab project now and it is an LLVM backed solidity to wasm compiler so yeah we'd really like to make any connections we can there Brian totally yeah that sounds like a great way that we could start bringing in some of the the broader ethereum community into this work so the immediate plans are to put a wasm virtual machine into borough and then we can demonstrate solidity with the wasm to wasm sort of end-to-end and so that's one of the things I'm working on now the initial sandpit for this is we have our we have our kind of extension functions that are hard hard coded and go at the moment so historically we've been called the S natives so the first relatively small piece we'd like to do is have dynamic extension of those as kind of wasm modules that can be called from the evm and so we have a calling convention from the evm to this native code that's hard-coded so this is what a kind of a nice step anyway from get it work is to be able to call dynamically deployed wasm code from city contracts but using the same extension mechanism okay great so I see in your your issues that you list tools and documentation when it comes to tools is it just these things that we were talking about or is anything else that you would like to highlight there we don't have a web-free interface yet so that would be some tooling that will be useful for us as for documentation on the on the on the on a high-plated chat there's there's a fair amount of interest but we're discovering that we have features of people interested in but we don't have any documentation so we have so we need that's that's one thing that we could really help us because we do have features that people like but if they don't know how to use them they're not that much use yeah and this is this is a problem that can't I don't think it can be ceded by the community but but one thing we're trying to do it well in Monat so I'm gonna do this this happy hour thing on a Friday and part of that is gonna I'm gonna be forcing myself to do half an hour documentation I've got PR open on borough at the moment but my plan was to try and get kind of coverage but make it kind of probably not at all in depth enough and then kind of hoping that some of the interested people on borough chat room which there's been an uptick in like like good questions on there which is kind of promising but maybe people are gonna be interested in picking that up on the web three thing we have a we have an internship proposal that is quite detailed for someone to start we also had talks with fabric fab three guys so they have a quite a well encapsulated web three interface this is the standard Ethereum JSON RPC interface that is a kind of standalone thing and they had agreed in principle to spin that out into another project it hasn't happened I guess because we didn't get the internet pushing it but if there's anyone who wanted to take up that project I don't think it'd be that hard like fabric has done a lot of the work and it could benefit benefit both projects and we'd have it as dependency in borough and then we'd be able to use the Ethereum like web plugins so MetaMask and things like that ultimately to do things like a local signing in a browser and all that kind of stuff which we don't have access to now okay I would like to suggest that if there's anybody on the call from the learning materials development working group that maybe an opportunity to ramp on borough and kill two birds with one stone would be to participate on that documentation exercise I definitely will look into it's Bobby and I definitely will put that on our list thank you great okay well thanks for the update borough team do we have somebody on the call to represent the cello project yes there is Tom hi Tom I think I'll go ahead and kick off the first question then again here looking to see real quickly if there was a response on accessibility I think that question was probably a bit out of the blue but I think for all of our projects that that focus on some sort of user experience or actual direct interface surface it's good to think about how usable that is in a variety of dimensions including accessibility there's not to put you on the spot to answer that but if you have any thoughts about the design of cello in regard to that or that maybe as a future priority for your backlog I'd like to hear about that right that's right we I mean this too has a user interface so the accessibility naturally comes to to mind we actually use this framework I'm hoping that the most of the just kind of issues addressed by the framework but we haven't really tested accessibility so the requirement and I wasn't really familiar with this thing and I actually answered the question at I think a while back as I said we haven't test this but certainly will be something we can start the discussion and see what we can do after the one or release yeah there's a good point I told maybe we need to find some expert on the accessibility is there a way to pull some of this stand so each project is enough figuring out accessibility on their own maybe some guidelines from hyper ledger or Lenox Foundation or something on what we'd like to see so we have consistent accessibility across all projects yeah I think that if we have contributors that are experienced in user interface design this would be a great way to sort of broaden that impact if you want to put together some best practices for for accessibility maybe useful tool kits I think there's there's bound to be some diversity and implementation based on different languages and SDKs that are being produced but wherever there's an opportunity for for use and communicating best practices I think we'd all appreciate that I mean cross-border how I mean how other projects actually address this issue how many how many project actually should have this issue I'm not I'm not really sure yeah I think Explorer comes to mind is is another project that has a strong user interface focus but really any of the projects that are presenting a surface especially things that that have a web interface I would hope to see some accessibility designed from each of those and and plan to be asking about those in upcoming project reports yeah yeah I understand right other topics for cello I think the most it's just a couple things one is the activities in the past quarter then the plans we have for the future and we have added the you know this fabric 1.4 release you can use a raft so we added the raft to support if you use the cello and civil agent you'll be able to set up your fabric network now you not only by using Kafka you can also choose to use raft we also added the capability that you can use cello to set up just say I only care about the peers in my organization you can just set up here's or say hey I don't care about any peers and I'm hosting ordering system you can do that or we can do both so that has been what the cello always support and now you can just choose to just do peers or orders we also added the capability that allow you to expose the fabric metrics those ports now you can choose just switch a flag you'll be able to say hey I want to enable this I don't want you know enable this with the some of the work from the fabric interop working group now we have formally defined the process how existing organization can join how a new organization can join existing fabric network so we have that process defined now if we use cello to set up your peer or set up order system cello will be able to generate those artifacts that you can send to existing fabric network admins for join your new organization or you say hey I only have order and system and now your organization already approved to have peers join here's the underpoints certificates that you can use to join your peers so those artifacts that necessary expanding your fabric network will be created while you actually set up those things so we have also started work on the improved the user dashboard we're trying to make sure that it's a lot easier to use more dynamic you can add your peers they say more from Kubernetes cluster appears running in there you'll be able to do that and we actually did quite a bit of work improve the document and fix some bugs you can see the compound doesn't change much from last quarter update we still have only four maintainers in this project that's pretty much everything right thanks tongue any last questions for cello all right well thanks for for updating us cello team Explorer do we have a representative from your project hello my name is Nick I am supporting hyperledger Explorer so this is my first time to report so apologies if I'm kind of like haven't been in such auditorium and apologies so the project health is green we released version 3.9.1 we're working on graduating the project from incubation we have a lot of work to do despite we have 2.5 resources people are not people are wishing to join but what's happening when they get their hands on real coding then they excuse this so with the front issues that they're busy on their tasks and so on so we are we are still going into removing the graduating from the incubation we did redesign Explorer to use the discovery service and the new gateway a part of fabric network using the wallet identity and we are working on updating the test cases introducing we introduce the automated test cases working on bug fixes and new features of 1.4 fabric and I'm planning to also give a test of latest 1.4.1 fabric release I think that's that's a wall again we are very low on contributors and it is very hard to recruit people so as I mentioned before that is all my update all right well thank you for the update Nick and also thank you for I see you added the JIRA task for accessibility design do we have any other questions for the Explorer project I guess I'll just chime in one other point that that's already in the comment thread for the update which is that the the charter I think for Explorer sought to encompass the Hyperledger projects and so please continue to think about how you either recruit support or develop features to support that that breadth of projects yes sure myself I even was actively trying to recruit through the LinkedIn sending to my connections actively masking people in the chat but again some are wishing and are willing but I don't see no much contribution so people are based on their project and they have their own tasks so certainly all right thank you Nick all right yeah hey Dan this is Dave Huesby I've got a quick question for the Explorer project I became aware of a security vulnerability in one of the dependencies of the Explorer project and I filed a security bug yesterday or two days ago and I wanted to ask Nick who on the Explorer project is willing to or should I talk to you about fixing security bugs yeah I don't have a liability and I need a volunteer to add to that list I'm working on that now I saw that we had the merge into the monster and I saw that and other branch too I'm working on that now I hope what is they or two what is your LFID and FRUNZA okay yep so that's you that I'm talking okay yes yes I'm working I know that I'm aware of any any security vulnerability I keep track I'm watching I would say 14 hours a day so wow well I'm not imposing a deadline I just wanted to make sure that I was talking to the right yeah I think how we have things organized we have one or more maintainers from each project on the security mailing list yeah Dan I've had on a to-do list for a couple weeks months or so that list and refresh it so I think this is a good impetus to raise that in my priority list so if you have volunteered for the security team in the past you probably get an email from me here soon on the mailing list and I'm just gonna ping everybody and see if you still want to be on the list and then I'll figure out which projects are missing and we'll add to new people right and then proactively if you're listening to this and you are a project maintainer and you don't know who your project security representative is you should probably figure that out and make sure they're connected with Dave yeah yep that's a good idea thanks Dan okay thank you see if I can make Rise screen work here oh maybe Rise back great alright technical working group China who do we have on from the working group today hi Dan I will do the report all right Bala thank you okay so overall the working group is just working as planned we we continued regular bi-weekly meeting and in order to make more people suitable to attend the meeting we have a voting at the change the time of the meeting from the morning to the evening every Wednesday China time and I will really there will be more than 10 or even more than 20 participants before the meeting so in this quarter we are glad to see that the contributors they show interest and not only to project fabric and the sort of but also to projects like Indie and Eurasia and hopefully we we would expect more interest also to other projects and for the documentation work we nearly finished at the translation of the fabric one point for documentation and also started 2.0 documentation and we have tried the several platforms and finally we now move to the trans effects and the contributors think it's quite efficient to do the translation with the trans effects and for the meetups we have eight meetups in this quarter and the cities include Beijing Shanghai Hong Kong Changsha and Hangzhou you can see it's a diverse thing geographically and also we have one more call volunteers Chunyang he's nominated and accepted he's from May 2 when China company and overall I think the group is going on well and before I jump to the issues to the global to the TSC is there any questions okay then I will continue with the issues I want want to propose to the TSC there are two major issues the first one is we have re-editing the trans effects platform for the documentation translation and we feel it's very efficient however we do not find there's any please replacement within the community tools you know the trans effects itself is it's commercial and currently we try to think out how to integrate our translated the results with the other committee tools like the Derek or Gihang reports so we will look for some suggestions from the GSC any suggestions on this topic maybe you could just say that question one more time in case people misunderstood oh yeah currently we have finished the the translation of the fabric of one point for documentation that is using a platform called the trans effects and we want to see how we can like leverage the translate the results better with the community to commit committee tools and so normally where do the work products of that effort go are they they're being committed into a hyper leisure labs repository yeah and so you're wondering like are there artifacts generated by trans effects that are not going into source control and you're wondering about that yeah the lab is a is a is a good direction and one more thing I can imagine might be the learning and education working group I'm not sure whether yeah if you're interested with the translated the results is the question really around how do you bring the translated output into read the doc so that somebody could choose Chinese or Mandarin as their selected format when they're actually looking at the official documentation yeah I think if we can integrate the transfects into read the doc directly that will be helpful as a process time and since it's not free you have to pay for it is that what the problem is the trend now we do not pay for the transfects but we think it might not be a perfect place to hold all the translated documentations because it's it's out of the control from the hybrid community so what do you commit to the the labs repo then so then you suggest that we host all the results into the hyperledger lab right I'm not suggesting something new I was under the impression that the translations that you're producing for fabric are going into one of the lab repositories is that correct yeah yeah and so I'm not clear what what is going into the lab or what is not going into the lab repository already yeah but the lab repository is only someplace to host the results why is not a good tool for doing the collaboration on the translation so now we're using the transfects I think I'm hearing two issues here one is where can you work on the translation itself and two is where can you publish it and I think the last time we looked at transfects there was they do have open source licensing I might be thinking of a different tool and I think the the other issue is how does how do we get the results of the lab folded into the fabrics docs project itself that is am I understanding you correctly there yeah that's true all right well it sounds like maybe the the second question might be the easiest because it seems like that's a fabric project question that that hopefully the fabric maintainers can derive resolution with do you feel like you have an effective communication path with the fabric maintainers okay I think we can continue to discuss this with the fabric maintainer teams okay thanks for suggestions and the other issue is actually it's initially proposed by weeping he suggests that we can attract more people to attend other working groups meetings and I think we can extend this question or suggestion to like how we can improve the communications between the TWC and other projects and also working groups one thing we we have done is we promote the information of the meetings in our regular meeting and also I think it might be a good idea if there are there can be some volunteers from other projects and working groups they can help attend the TWC meeting and make some simple introduction there last at the end of the last year we we are glad that we have some volunteer from the sawtooth project and if he briefly introduced sawtooth project and it did help people to get involved into the project and that I think it might be a very good way so yeah it is it might be not a question but I still welcome for any suggestions or advice and I think what we found was a Chinese native Chinese speaker who was a sawtooth contributor to speak in that event yeah is it required that that somebody from one of the other projects is it required that they speak Chinese in order to participate in that meeting not really I think English should be okay but the time might be a problem current time is 8 p.m. the China the Beijing time it should be very early for the Eastern time so okay well still fair enough I think it's a fair request that for each of the projects that wants to get better integrated with the China working group provide a presenter I'm sure we can work out the logistics of getting up early on one occasion yeah we were thankful anyone here by the way this is whipping we are going to hold on May 29 actually May 30th 1 a.m. 1 a.m. UTC which would be a good time in China the identity working group meeting so I mean if needed I can show up on the TS on the TW China working group call and talk about the identity working yeah sure we can you are always welcome just brush up your Chinese before we pin yeah I know I it's on my list all right she a she a any other thanks all right so I think we're we're running just about out of time so any last question for Bawa all right well thank you everybody for your participation in today's talk well I just one last comment for the documentation translation basically I think there's an issue like who's going to commit those generated artifacts to the good ripple because that I suppose should be signed off I mean ideally that could be a CICD job to like periodically pull translated artifact from trans effects into get up and signed by some bot I think this probably this might be a problem and might be a broader in scope if other projects are translated as well yeah I agree I think that our requirements would be that they have a human doing the sign off and not just doing the sign off it's whoever is made that contribution when they make that contribution it has to include the effectively the developer certificate of origin yeah I mean currently we credit contributors of translation using statistics from trans effects obviously but I mean ideally we could use that some data from GitHub but I don't think that's very possible with the tool so I still think we shouldn't have a like human being committing all those artifacts to get up and with his name as the author no I don't think that would be appropriate unfortunately we are out of time for for this discussion but please feel free to continue this this line of questions and comments either on chat or in the mailing list yeah sure just raise the awareness yeah thank you for doing that all right thank you everyone