 It will in just a second. Okay, and we're live. Hello everyone, I am Vienna from the Economic Space Agency from Oakland, currently in Boston at the Massachusetts Legal Hackers. So shall we start? Yes, let's begin. So we, while we're getting things up and running, we asked Vienna here this evening to clue us Let's see if there's an input on this or to clue us in on what's happening with the Economic Space Agency and their approach to adaptive rules and communities and just some basic introduction so that people here can have a clue about what good things are happening. And then we'll look to have some time for Q&A and discussion, but without further ado, Vienna. Thank you. First of all, I should start with a caveat that we are really redefining what rules means in this context which is, uh oh, a voice call. I just rejected it anyway. I know what you're saying. I'll go through producer call number. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. Oh, you have to mute that. Sorry about that. I forgot that HDMI hijacks the audio bus. So the rules that we will be sharing about today is very much more in the realm of like, hey, how do we come to an agreement between you and I on some endeavor that we person together? So in that sense, it's like the private law side of things. Because I remember once Baza told me that, you know, actually we think that public law is the biggest like legal field areas out there that actually private law, in terms of if you think of the economy activity of private law, it's actually way bigger than what people typically think of. But in aggregate, right? So that's why we are pursuing actually an ecosystem approach to generating, capturing value. So with that, I'll jump right into what we are working on. So we're working on two open source projects. One of them is called Gravity. Another one of them is called Space. And who do I mean by we? It's basically this interdisciplinary, globally distributed collective called Economic Space Agency. And like I said, we are aiming to create this ecosystem approach to generating, capturing, and distributing value. And we think that right now with peer-to-peer technology, we already have the tools in our hands to be able to do all the things that we are imagining of what economy could do by ourselves. So you want to go back to the tab that the slides run. And this is just the screen share of that tab. So it's my computer, right? Great. Yep. It's not showing up. OK. So you go back to the broadcast. And we just want to show this. What screen is this? OK. There we go. So just select your screen. A day of typing. OK. And then the other way to do it is we can just close all other screens. Interesting. Well, it doesn't seem to be showing the right. And it's definitely my fault. Can you just email me the slides? And I'll do it. Yeah, it's the same one. OK. I'll find it in a, I'll do it for you. All right. I'll just start. So I was at that. Our thesis is basically that in the past, the internet has taken an unfortunate centralized route, which started with HTTP, TCP, IP, where instead of having this fat protocol that basically allows for a data layer to be a part of the protocol, you basically separated it. So it has this thin protocol layer. And then what happens is that you need companies like Facebook, Amazon, and Google to be able to host the data layer. And because of that, it centralizes a lot of value capturing power in their hands. But what Bitcoin actually showed us is that there is a way now that you can actually disintermediate value, like value in terms of, like we're talking about identity, we're talking about assets, digital assets, and money, if you will, that's a digital asset. And because of this, we believe that the business model of the old paradigm where the more you can centralize something, the more power you get, that's going to change. And the business model that we're seeing going ahead is one that people can actually have more self-solving identity and more ways how they can manage what they want to share and what they don't want to share. So with that in mind, we're actually proposing to build out one of the lowest level protocol gravity, which actually is an adaptive protocol by itself, at least as a design goal, where you can actually introduce changes to the protocol instead of having it being done like typical blockchain style where if you don't agree with it, you have to fork it. We think that that's a result of computer scientists not considering the question of governance seriously enough. And for us, we are trying to address that using space. Space is what I like to affectionately call relational complexity management tool. But my other teammates would describe it as it's an economic space toolkit that allows people to use templates of smart contracts and create their own organization digitally. Give me some of that. So I'm going to follow along when you shift slides, I'll shift slides. OK. Right, let's shift. OK, so this is what I already verbally said. You can go back a little bit. So yeah, this is what I was saying. So it can create smart relations and smart organization and define their governance. Then let's go next. And this is what I was talking about, the thin protocol, how the protocol is like this in the past and then next. And we see this in the future. And we are actually working on the next one, an object capabilities framework that allows for the fat protocol to be created. So our work really for gravity combines public smart contracts as people understand it in the blockchain space. Blockchain is an implementation of public smart contracts and private smart contracts that has been in academia around for a past few decades. Now we're really bringing that up and combining them together to really create what we believe is the next evolution after blockchain. You can think of it as that if Bitcoin was this spreadsheet, Ethereum is like the world's mainframe computer. What we want to enable everyone to have is this PC revolution, where everyone can have their own PC and choose how they want to network with one bag. So object capabilities. So I was just saying how it exists back then when HTTP, TCP, IP were proposed, but it's the path that the internet didn't take. In fact, the path that the internet took is only two out of five or seven functionality that object capabilities has. So I was referring here to a work that Christian Daza here have worked on, which is OpenPBS, OpenPersonal Data Store, which is a framework to start thinking about data as an asset. And I was just merely making a reference here about how what we're thinking is like the steroid version of it. Then, so we can think of what object capabilities mean is that we're using it in a very general way in terms of objects. Objects here refers to data that can be a database. It can be a value in a cell in the database. We're talking about a human agent's identity online or a network of agents, algorithms, they all can be structured as capabilities. So in business, it's not just technical actors and actions. I wanted to sort of break down two or three use cases to say what is the business, legal and technical dimensions of each use case? And then this was like the, I don't know, call it like the diagrammatic things, but this would be like an actor or a person. This would be like, I don't remember, we had like some action that was happening and then some kind of data was basically what we chose just as three points that we could track across. So business like, it's like a customer and like, I don't know what a merchant or something. And this might be like, it's actually like a licensee and a, whatever, like a program provider or whatever you, and then the action might be, like you made a purchase at point of sale and the other one might be, no, I actually like executed a trademark license and then they have a contingent right for a service for under the SLA for two months or whatever. There's some legal characterization that will tell you your rights obligations. It's technically, it's like it's a client that like exchanges an access token with a authorization server or something would be like kind of how you might say that. And then there's, and the data for what's happening there is probably in a token and like a JSON web file, the data is having legally is probably a license agreement and some indication people agree. And that's something that's happening that the business might look very much like a receipt that their customer got and something in a log that ultimately go into the books of the company maybe one or two other business kind of things. Like you relate to a brochure, it might look like a ticket or it might look like a loyalty card or something with an X on it for coffee. But through some business artifact, typically people would say, this is what it is. It's almost never the same as a legal artifact. It's almost never the same as the technical artifacts. We just kind of broke it down. This is the matrix. When Vianna talks about a BLT business legal technical matrix and going through two or three of these use cases turned out the East Coast and the West Coast ought to be talking a lot more often because we made such awesome progress and it was really dynamite going both directions. We all learned a lot and I definitely was converted into a big fan of what Vianna's talking about. Anyway, that was the matrix she's referring to in it. Could you tell us a typical difference between the legal artifact and our technology? I can, but let's do it after Vianna's done talking. This is not really a BLT session. It's like economic spaces section but I would love to talk about this but this is really in the context of economic space and adaptive rules. So if you could stick after a little bit, I can talk about BLT method all night long. Yeah. And then also one of the things that I wanted to show as well is us running through our use cases through the BLT stuff. At least we use cases. Oh, maybe I should talk about them. Yeah. Okay, go ahead and run through the use cases and see if that answers the question. If it doesn't then, and it still seems timely, tell me and I'll answer it. Let me go into detail at the end. Because right now what I want to point out is actually very often we don't have coherence from business team or the legal team or the technical team of like what is done. So what is interesting though of what tokens enable us to do is that you can actually, when you start doing this rigorously, you can actually program even business logic into the tokens. And this is where we want to really almost like blow up the definition of what token means in the blockchain space because with an object capability framework, you can actually create tokens much more granular than a coin. Like a coin to us is pretty dumb. It's like a very flat one-dimensional token. But when we talk about object capabilities, we're talking about almost like the lowest level all the way to possibly the highest level token, it's up to your imagination really. And let's go. Let's go. I just want to mention one quick before that. Yeah, so the proof is you can think of it as what we're trying to do here is that we're really trying to offer some starting toolkit of what people can do with economy spaces on the tree first modules that we have is one is called the offer module which is your broadcast of your intention to the ecosystem. Say, hey, I want to offer my legal services, something. And the consolation is basically you can offer that, hey, maybe I don't want to just do this by myself that I want to have a legal co-op to do this together. And then you can then define whoever joins me. So the consolation is more like a governance module. So in this case, I pick like a co-operative governance module and then you can define what, when there is actual business, how do you want to split the profit? So that's the token module. The token module is a way to capture and distribute a value. But when I say value here, I also want to mention that we're not just thinking of value in profit sense, but rather even the attempts at allowing for more intangible value to be captured, for example, like the environment, like that kind of more ecosystemic kind of value is also something that we're hoping to be able to capture in the form of token too. That's why I'm in that highest level too. This is great. Yeah. I hear that. Operating within these, like, you know, you can argue about how well defined these people structures are, but they do exist the law of the land so this week. Yeah. This kind of even gets into questions of ethics that let's call it that me and my teammates have been debating one another for many, many, many hours that basically goes along the line of like, do we censor out certain behaviors? Like we have been using, if you notice, the more like positive approach being that, you know, let's create a pattern of behavior that we want to see, but we haven't decided whether we're going to not allow certain behaviors to go through. For example, if the system could detect that someone is making an offer that is to the effect of trying to cheat someone else or maybe even harm someone physically, like will we not let that offer go true in the network? Probably much more, is a simple, literal way of thinking. I want to sell you my kidneys a little bit, but I still want to do it. Against public policy. Yeah. Okay, so let's play it out. I'm in this phase once, you want to sell your kidney? Yeah. My kidney collection jar is looking a little light. I might want to top it off. Yeah, yeah. So this is where- Just that. Neza, we need your help. Okay, so I would play through three or four different ways. Like one thing I would do is model an existing system and just see if you can replicate that and get predictable legal results in an economic space. This is just a performance benchmark test and I know it's droll and boring when I say it, but I just feel like I would always do that first in the spaces we have. I'd probably start with Commonwealth of Mass Law as just some arbitrary space and then we should get the result where like, whoa, like one way or another, we either prevented from doing it, which seems a little happy-handed or it was identified and it went to dispute resolution thing. But like I would expect it to mirror, if I said let's make a space that mirrors what we're doing here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but maybe faster cheap or better in economic spaces I would get that result. And then I would look to change some of the rules and say, okay, we don't have to use the Commonwealth of Massachusetts jurisdiction. We can choose in our contract because of the glory of private international law, the hate convention, like we're millennia, we've said private contract, we can say for the most part what rules we choose will determine even the dispute resolution, we can choose the jurisdiction, we can with private between two people, we can choose a great a lot of the rules. So if we could try to model a different jurisdiction I'm not familiar with one off the top of my head, but some place where the answer should be yes, you could sell a kidney if you wanted to and maybe you can tell me if there's a place, model that and then run the scenario and see do we successfully do the kidney transaction. Now we have the beginning of a syntax and a semantics and a functional process language where we can let communities set if they're a kidney selling kind of place or not. So that's how I would answer it. I'm sorry, I cut you off like three times. No, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. Let me answer your question. I'd like to get things a bit quicker than I remember. So remember where I was going to say earlier that's completely relevant to this, but I was afraid to forget. What he was talking about was created in 80s by the original OSF, which is the building just been destroyed this month. Society foundation? Obviously open software foundation. That was the first time in the history of humanity that two competitors are cooperated being IBM and digital. So you could probably find it there. Anyway, what did you just say? I'm not sure, let's hear from more people who hasn't spoken yet, if anyone. I just want to talk to you more because so much of what you talked about fits into a whole bunch of things that I'm working on and it helps kind of piece it all together but it's a really big conversation. Okay, so what is the best way for people to stay in contact? It's great for you that you get to go back to open California, Utopia. But not for all the rest of us. So what's a good way to maintain contact? You know, I would like to invite you guys to, we have like about five to 16 members who's currently in New York running a series of events. That's kind of why I'm also in town because I was supposed to go all the way there. But anyway, Dada was too tempting. Probably some media laughing, Massachusetts legal hackers is irresistible sometimes. But now we're all going to go to New York but there's a road trip to New York gathering so know this people, you will come with us. Yeah, so we're going to start doing the road trip tomorrow. So tomorrow evening, there is going to be an event with eFlox. I think the best place to find out about all this is through the Facebook page that we have. Like, economic space agency, like facebook.com slash economic space agency. Say it one more time. Facebook.com slash economic space agency. Economic space agency. Best name ever. Really? Yeah, come on. So tomorrow and the day after in New York. Otherwise, Oakland. Oakland, yep. Okay, so Facebook, so ironic given what you're building. Anything else? Slack, you go to this, you go to that. Yeah, we do the Slack channel. The Slack team is slack.com slash economic space. Wait, sorry, inverted. Economic space.slack.com. Economic space. Yeah. Oh, sweet. Okay, good. Yeah, last two and I'd like to hear from Bill again too. So why don't you string this out after I'm in this comment, okay Bill? You're up. So do you use like some existing smart contract framework like LLL or Solidity contracts? What is the language for the technical and currently look like for you guys? Actually, I didn't even get to touch about this at all, but we are actually using a secure version of JavaScript called secure ECMAScript. Secure ECMAScript, basically it's a very carefully engineered version of JavaScript that allows for object capability to be integrated into it while removing vulnerability there. What that means actually is it opens up regular JavaScript web developer to be able to program smart contracts on what we're working on. That's cool. Secure ECMAScript, yeah. ECMAScript. I assume, is there any notion of replication in all of this? Yes, I'm hesitant to say yes, only because a teammate of ours have prophesized that we could possibly even have an anonymous reputation system that exists in the ecosystem, but it's not privy to anyone, except that you could run algorithm to quote and worry certain things and it would return with yes and no statement or maybe a spectrum of trustability, for example. Yeah, that's actually kind of interesting because I also wonder like SEC and FBI have developed like tools that help them like mine the blockchain to find identities where they're like, if you practice like really good in track, you know, hygiene, right? You can like reduce your real identity connected to that, but I found this really interesting. We are now talking about re-identification risks. Very good. Nailed it. Exactly getting it. Incredibly quick study. Okay, Bill, you're up. I'm glad you used the word utopia because I was going to say this is cabinet for utopian secrets. And wins a close, that statement is, here are two very tangible use cases I would invite you to give a shot at and I'd be willing to help. First of all, when you were talking about the augmented reality game, I would call that a futuristic example of neighborhood as a service. Interesting. So you're actually incentivizing, although you described the goal as mental health, you really, you've created an engine for community building. So that's one very tangible use case. The second tangible use case, if you've ever tried to start a co-housing development or co-living development, it's hell. And you have to sort of water down the utopian part by doing conventional condo docs. Well, this could come back in as a next generation. People are speculating that co-living is going to be a permanent part of the housing ecosystem. We just can't afford to live alone. Your generation can't afford to live alone in the Bay Area, right? And it's fun in the economic space agency house too. Like it's great to be with other people that are creative. It's such a great way to live. We live and work together at FYI. Pardon me? We live and work together, like about eight of us. There you go. It's so cool. Yeah. So yeah, having rules like that could, that's very, I'm glad you just brought it up. So I hope that you'll take what Bill said and Bill knows from what he's talking about in the real estate and the real issues. Yeah. If you want to help us solve some problems. I would love to. You could. I would love to. The reason being that we've been talking about like incorporating our house as a business entity. And I should give you. This should be one where you don't do it on your own people, I'd say. Like in this, because I want you guys to survive for a long time and be attentive. But may I offer you something that's like way less risky but also effective? Please, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I want you to really think about that before you do it. And then who knows you're risky people. So that's great. But what if on October 30th and 31st, when we do the MIT Legal Forum on AI and Blockchain and when we're going to have breakout sessions. Bill, who's been a great collaborator for years now of the stuff we've been doing with non-research and MIT, MIT alum. What if we said one of the breakout sessions will be modeling the rules for co-living situate places so that we can kind of like do a charrette on it. And then there's a lot of co-leading places here. You can bring people from Berkeley maybe and we can kind of do a proper job on it. And then maybe think about if you want to eat your own dog food after that. Yeah, yeah. Do you extend the definition of neighborhood too, right? In a virtual way, I think about like communities who want to embrace holistic medicine in some way that just feels like there's a whole possibilities. Yeah. Communities have just already existed today, like the older densest community, our gamers community. You've got your hunters, you've got your gardeners, you've got your, there's a lot of communities upon communities that genuinely exist that could exist. And they already affect an economy. They found out in a lot of cities when they invite conventions and they expect revenue to go to a certain level, it doesn't. And the reason it doesn't because they find out that people stay at people's houses. And it's enough to affect. Yeah. So I wanted to mention that we do, we are working with about 20 economic spaces that ranges all the way from, even you were saying about a freelancer network, but ours is like, we're trying to create an economic space with this agentic network, which is a consultancy network. And then. Is it called agentic? Agentic. What's the difference? Agentic state is like an undesirable kind of thing, I think. I don't know why it's named that way. But there's that. And then we are also working with New Mundo, which is this global network of eco-religious. And there's also the artist network, people who wants to create music in a co-production manner. Actually, one of the theme I didn't get to say here is we're all talking about co-production all the time. So in fact, we have a term called network mode of production. And that's what we want to see the future of the economy look like. Network mode of production. I have actually a bunch of ideas. That's great. If you're seeing a contact. What is the difference between the consultant services that you're talking about and the platform that he's talking about? Let me just say that our focus as the platform is just creating some starter templates. So we're just taking unique use cases that we think has long-term potential and help them incubate that. So, yeah. I'm sorry, Chris. Yeah, so I just wanted to get a sense of like, where are you right now? Like in terms of along your roadmap of these incubation. And then what is it that you really need? Yeah, very early stage. We are working on our buy papers currently. We have raised two rounds of funding from pre-selling to our economic spaces. So we basically pre-sold to our clients in a way and say, hey, we will help you incubate your economy space in return for you buying into our tokens. Now, we are considering to go for an ICO. If we need to scale up, it's not an if, we have to scale up our development team. That's the thing that it's holding things back currently. And we're looking at a timeline of about three years at least to three to five in terms of the full feature gravity version. But the space version is being developed way faster in that it's basic like a web development. And also the SDK part, it's we're rolling out an economy SDK for game developers. That's why we're working with the game. But it's too parallel development track with space being much faster iteration and gravity being slower because it's an infrastructural project. Yeah. So I plan to introduce these folks to like Ashley Taylor and the future culture folks that came out to help us on the digital identity sessions and other people are looking to these community, community digital, I don't know what to call it, reflections. Projects seem like it diminishes it, but these attempts to kickstart the new way of living and a new type of economic world with set of relationships in new economic models too that exist largely through the digital sphere. And the future culture you've got to meet, very much starting to apply to some circular economy model within like in looking at Brooklyn Navy Yard implementation, some other very interesting things, a very really great collaborators. So there's a bunch of folks and gosh Chris, I seriously hope that like you'll think about depending on the development cycles, the stuff that you have in mind to do, Chris has got some terrific ideas of local community like rules that could be built out. I'm not sure what tool, how the timelines work, but that would be amazing if this worked. But before we hang up on that, when you're done, but after you, before you close, I wanna say one thing, that people looking at adaptive rules might have thought we might at some point get to like rules and regulations and the ability for them to adapt. And I know it's not directly part of your set yet, but from talking to your team, I wanna say just like maybe 30 or 45 seconds about possibilities and like the law with the capital L as well. Sorry to interrupt you. Yeah, so just the first note on circular. Yeah. It's a, we actually think of our economic logic as economic circuits in at least two ways. One is a practical example when it comes to what new form of collaboration could look like. If you look at an artist, we feel that currently it's a very one-dimensional like an economic logic, but you can actually think of new forms, how they can engage with their fans. One where it's, we call it intentional economy with just in time production. Being that the artist can actually put out an offer and say, hey, could you my fans demand for concerts in places that you want to see it happening? And could you say, tell me what kind of a songs theme would you like me to write on? And those pre-pay for the album and I said, okay, I'm gonna bet on, well, not bet. I wanna put in for the bounty of an album on, I don't know, making peace with the world. And if that happens together, the most amount of like bounties, I as an artist will work on it. So that's kind of what the circular way kind of looks like. And to go even one step further, we can even look at resolving catch 22 of the economy by allowing everyone to have the offers broadcasted to the ecosystem and having an algorithm that goes through the offers and say, hey, you know, your offer that basically states, if someone do this, then I will do that. If there is a match, it can actually be automatically close as an economy surrogate. So that can also resolve the problems around barter economy, for example. Yeah. I actually have a couple of things with the question about it. You just do want to sit because we're getting close to close. We're getting close. Are you sure? Okay. All right, thank you. It's very gracious. Okay. And so. Okay. So I'm gonna say what, I don't know if you can see the steam coming off the bills. I don't know. One of my favorite bills thinking is the Dockstrolls Intention Intent Casting, which is, you know, Dockstrolls, there's a whole deep well of, I don't know, almost feels like on Walden, I'm kind of thinking here on personal data and individual identity control, Dockstrolls and the Clue Train out of Harvard, Berkman and other places have thought about this a lot. And one of the things in real estate that they used to, the Dockstrolls as a great use case, and they'll really picked it up, is what if as a buyer, right now our marketplace for buying houses in real estate is seller's market. You're a seller, you get a broker, they advertise, like everything's pushed out from the seller and they kind of go around like door to door. Have you heard of a buyer? I don't know, have you heard of a buyer? It's like, it's incredible. By contrast, if we had identity and personal data control and rules within which we could start to structure economic like communications rationally the way you were describing, one of the things that we could do is if you were interested in buying a house and you're pre-qualified, you could set a marker. Like I'm looking for a single family dwelling, like in one of these three cities, like this and that, you know, you know, near a coffee shop, whatever it is. Now all of a sudden everybody that's doing like, you know, discovery and you know, search, filter, sort, priority, they can now come to you. The one with the money and who has a need and start bidding or it's proposing and asking, would you be interested to talk to me? It's a terrific application apart of what you're saying and it's called intent casting, is what Doc Sherrill's called and Bill's done terrific work with you guys can talk at a lot of levels. What I was gonna suggest is just before we kind of like close out here, you know, adaptive rules, I know you said very clearly like what you mean by it, but it has another connotation too, which I think is also maybe a possible application of the tech, which is Sandy Pentland who you met today has been like pushing me and others to look at how we could use algorithmic data-driven models of the type that he's into for public sector like regulatory and statutory story rulemaking, because he looks at these rules and he says, you know, it looks like I've been haphazard like you, right? This stuff in like fuzzy language and like there's no tracking of it. We don't know if we're getting closer further. We don't know how all the rules relate to each other, no one would know how many rules relate to them and I give a time. You need teams of lawyers and there's never any complete guarantee. And so he's been talking about and experimenting with ways that increasingly you could describe public rules in a way that is more computable and that you can talk about the measures like data sets and things that will allow you to see whether we're getting closer further when we made the rule and that kind of stuff. Well, in that spirit, it seems to me like one of the things that is possible with the way that you've composed your market, that way you've designed your architecture and that you can compose these services, these service types of including like the service of creating rules for your governing your space. Is that like one of these spaces could be a township or a city government where like a tidy subset of the complexities and commercial spaces could be like here we're fixing to have these seven ordinances discussed at our next meeting on Tuesday. And then when you pass a rule, now it becomes a rule of the space. Have you seen Finland? And the rules can now be adaptive. And so some of the rules say things like we wanna have a rule that will prevent the selling of kidneys like cause that's been a real problem in our space lately. And then you could do that but you could also have a rule that says when we get too many people like about 7% that are saying like I'm and all of my business people I'll leave this community unless you ban another organ on that list. And then we will just set up an adaptive system that will add any organ to the list when we get enough people that like sign the affidavit that will leave the community unless hearts are added to the list and unless kidneys and liver are added to the list. And so now you have this sort of adaptive system where like the then current list is responsive to what the will of the community is. Then Sandy would go even one step further and say well, how do you even know what rules you should have? Like it's one thing to set rules that are elastic within ranges that would be itself a tremendous step forward that data-driven trackable computational law but better still is it instead of just having to kind of and I'll talk to this from when I worked in legislatures and things like hacks basically just thinking I don't know if you've seen the headlines say yeah let's do a law like that. Yeah. I don't know what you're saying. This is our basis for what just pops into our head and why to do a law. It's not always like the pristine public administration suffix one of one that you might hope. And even at best it's still arbitrary and like just opinion-based and whatever. And so what if instead we just did a statistical like a scan of the ride and we just saw like where are things, where are the clods, where has been suboptimal, where we're not meeting our overall goals and then we can actually have some of the logic of the system recommend sets of types of rules that we ought to have humans affect or within certain ranges maybe that it could just get done. Do we need to know every single performance rule and rules for systems and algorithms that it hasn't even generated yet? Like we might have to be able to understand everything that adaptively could be created by well-tuned algorithmic models and rule-oriented applications. And so Sandy has a vision where we can have much more machine-driven rules that humans have governance over and that we could set parameters for but that wouldn't even tell us like which rule should we sunset, which kind of rule should we have to start with and then also make them algorithmic. I can barely understand how to do that in on like AWS with an army of Christians, but I could imagine if we were operating within space and had gravity, I'll bet you in a jurisdiction we could begin to have the type of algorithms needed to have adaptive rules for adaptive rules systems. You're talking about refactoring the law? I'm talking about refactoring the law for a digital age. So one government has actually done that. The Finnish government changed their constitution so that a small percentage of the population can live with different laws. They did that so they could try out basic income and their goal is to be able to update their legal system with small agile style tests when they like highly like measure like many different things. But they don't have a technological means of actually distributing the law or tracking the impact of it. So how is it that people close the law? Sorry? How is it that people? Currently they do it through a lottery system and it's just a like a small percentage like a thousandth of a percent of the total population was ran somehow randomly selected to receive a basic income as an example. That's a good example. So the Finnish system might just be the start. So that looks like when you bring us home, Vienna? Yeah, so you might be delighted to know that we have possibly up to a third of our team members being finished. Very cool accent. Or did they cook? They helped you just so they could cook. These people know that. Okay, and then to what Dazzo was talking about, actually yes, yes, and yes. Awesome. Tell Sandy tomorrow. Those conversations are conversations that we already have in the house. Typically it ends up to the ethics and then meta-ethics and they were like, oh, formalized ethics. Oh, wait, that's like yours out. But algorithmic governance is one of those things that we want to see. And in fact, we think that with what we're thinking in terms of offers, you can think of it as a way to refine offer. Like by offer here, I actually mean even rules that you're talking about. But right now rules are very binary. It's like one or zero. But we're saying that there's a whole spectrum and gradient of rule and there are different sentiments around rules that doesn't necessarily mean you're extreme on yes or no, but rather, huh, where are you on the spectrum? And we think that possibly finance might be a way for us to approximate what the sentiments are on this and it can get more accurate over time. Obviously this is influenced by our Finnish economists who think of finance as a form of governance too in that it's a little bit like, I don't know if you guys have seen speculative finance science fiction, but basically it's a little bit like imagine the hyperfinance world where you can short or long any positions. And I could short your position when, I don't know, let's say if you're an abortionist and I'm not like, and I can say, I'm gonna put in my money and like, you know, short your position there and you can do the same for me. Although there are scenarios where if we don't couple it with like a universal basic equity system, that's how we think of it, not universal basic income because universal basic income presumed this duality between you and the system, or rather we're trying to say you constitute the system. So the universal basic equity plus universal basic education, that needs to be part of the budget allocation for the infrastructure that we're building. We should bring the spring up, wrap it up. Wrap it up, how are we doing? You were asking what kind of help do we need? So we do need to raise funding to build this out, but more than funding the right networks of people. I'm doing my part by introducing Vienna around here and we'll do some stuff in New York. You can do your part too. Yeah. You're best best asset. Are you ready to do it? Boston's on big dreamers, I'm on big dreamers. The arts? Actually, it's important because I was trying to avoid what Brat Bazaar is bringing this to, like I was trying to say, hey, let's start from the ground up. Let's just build the little pieces, right? And then this will come. Yeah. Peter Thiel is your guy. Peter Thiel, yeah. Well, to be sure, we're not trying to raise funding from the big guys that we're trying to. He wants one. So I'm gonna put up a new dialogue. Let's wrap it up. Yeah, sorry. But all that turns good. And then I need to stop broadcasting somewhere. You are? Okay. What hashtag? What hashtag? Yeah. He means how can you find this video? It's on YouTube. No, no, no, on Twitter first. For each. Yeah, we have a Twitter account, DCSA underscore team. What kind of hashtag? I would do E-C-S-A. Well, of course you always have to check beforehand to see if it's like, that's like the, you know, it's always like the equitable, you know, cow like administration service or something. And I was like, so you gotta check these, always check these beforehand no matter how obscure this game. Because you're colliding with these like, through deep like sub-genres is also hell. Yeah. And then you fight about your hashtag and it's supposed to do your thing. So I guess there's no hashtag yet. Stay tuned, Bill. But what better yet? Sign up at MIT, what is it? It's MIT.edu forward slash law where you can pre-register and you could be a lucky winner at October 30th and 31st at the inaugural MIT legal forum on AI and blockchain where we could put together a breakout session where we model exotic creatures such as the adaptive rules of a co-living environment or intent casting for real estate market that is an actual market of buyers and sellers or other groovy implementations of economics face agencies work right here on our planet. So with that, I wanna thank you so much for taking the time. You're very generous and you're very groovy. And I hope that you come back and visit with us and whenever it's around anywhere like west of like the Mississippi, like how many things have the Mississippi like just finish the job, go to Oakland and visit the economics face agency. With that, thank you very much and over and out.