 The next item of business today is a member's business debate on motion number 8987 in the name of Joan McAlpine on fairness for local television in Scotland. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put and I would invite those members who wish to speak in the debate to please press the request to speak buttons now or as soon as possible. Before I call on Joan McAlpine I would further invite those members who are leaving the chamber to do so quickly and quietly, as well as those who are leaving the public gallery. Joan McAlpine, seven minutes please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Since this debate is about media matters, I should draw members' attention to my register of members' interests. I write a column for the Daily Record newspaper, which is owned by the Trinity Mirror group. I'm delighted to be leading this debate today and thank everybody across the Parliament who signed the motion. I would also like to thank Carnegie UK Trust for the briefing that they provided today and for STV for working closely with me to make the debate possible. I'd like to welcome members of STV and the University of West of Scotland who are in the gallery today to hear the debate. We're all familiar in this Parliament with the challenges of local news in the age of the internet. In the last seven years across the UK, 242 local newspapers have closed completely and £400 million of advertising revenue has disappeared over that time. Yet the public value local news, as the Carnegie Trust briefing points out, is a hub for citizens' engagement, is essential to local democracy, it connects people to place and to each other. This is reflected in the fact that 73 per cent of us believe that our local media is the best medium for making us feel part of a community. For this reason, we should welcome the arrival of the new channels, the new local TV channels. There was initial disquiet when the first licences in Scotland went to Glasgow and Edinburgh and representing the south of Scotland, which is poorly served by TV at the moment. I had previously commented on the logic of that and I know that the cabinet secretary Fiona has also raised her concerns about it at the time. However, having said that, I warmly welcome the launch of STV Glasgow next week and STV Edinburgh later this year. The regulator of common soon invite applications for local TV stations in Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Aire, and they are also considering advertising a licence for Falkirk, so we could have Kelpie TV as well. STV Glasgow will begin broadcasting on 2 June. That is this Monday at half past six in the evening. I was fortunate to visit their new studio on the Clyde a couple of weeks ago. It is built with a view over the river taking in a panorama of the Finiston Crane, the Squinty Bridge, the Armadilla and the Hydro, and it looked really spectacular. It will be from that panorama that the magazine show will be broadcast. There will be cookery featuring chefs from the city's restaurant. I particularly welcome the inclusion of Tenement TV, which showcases local bands and bands visiting the city because there has been no TV platform in Scotland for unsigned young bands for quite a while. It is an opportunity to develop talent and it should also be noted that STV has created 26 new roles with the new TV channel. Bobby Hain, director of channels at STV, has reported that advanced advertising sales for the new station have been buoyant with city businesses attracted by the opportunity to reach a concentrated audience of 2 million at rates that are lower than the national level. That is all good and we hope that it will be replicated when local TV licences are rolled out across Scotland. However, the motion in the debate today is about fairness for local television and is focused on the need to give appropriate prominence on the electronic programming guides, which have an important influence on what we watch. In England Local TV appears on channel 8 of the free view electronic programming guide, but in Scotland it will be at number 23. That is because BBC Alba occupies that slot in Scotland. I want to make it very clear that BBC Alba has widespread support and that neither myself nor STV has any problem at all with occupying that slot. The unfairness is that according to the Communications Act 2003, the regulator of comm should oblige providers of the electronic programming guide to give a degree of prominence to public service channels. However, there are lots of shopping, movie and entertainment channels that could be moved to accommodate local TV, and that has not happened in Scotland. For example, on ITV2, no-one could argue that it provides a public service, yet it is on page 1 of the guide. You have to ask why, and I think that the answer seems clear. Digital UK, the industry conglomerate who provides the free view electronic programme guide, has the power here. However, it acts in the interests of the biggest players in the industry, like ITV and BBC. Digital UK has a policy that is supposed to favour public service channels, including those providing local TV, but in Scotland's case they have ignored their own guidelines. Perhaps even more worryingly, the regulator of comm does not interpret the Communications Act 2003 as giving them the power to demand that public service channels get due prominence, and they refuse to intervene in this matter. A solution that recently emerged, the proposal to move BBC 3 online, provides an opportunity to promote local TV in Scotland. I recently wrote to Digital UK asking them to support such a solution, but I was told that the BBC trust has still to make a decision on BBC 3's future, and they would not comment until then. Of course, BBC is a major player in Digital UK, which controls the electronic programming guide, so I was very worried to read of hints coming out of the BBC that they would like to use this vacant slot for BBC Plus 1, which again would stymie local television in Scotland. This has exposed a flaw in the legislation covering the whole of the UK. If the Communications Act cannot enforce prominence for public service channels in Scotland, there is a danger that public service channels could lose prominence elsewhere in the UK. The UK Government appeared to recognise this and has announced that it will seek to bring new legislation forward and rectify it, but there is no timeline for that. Even if legislation is brought forward, it will come too late to benefit the services that are being launched this year in Scotland. Of course, the outcome of the referendum could make this debate redundant by transferring regulatory power over broadcasting from Westminster to this Parliament, but I am keen to reach a consensus in the debate, so I will not take that point any further. Whatever our position on the constitution, I hope that, however, we can all agree that it is in the interests of democracy for local TV not to be disadvantaged. I therefore hope that we can work together across the chamber for the fairest possible outcome, not just in the commercial interests of broadcasters, but in the interests of building strong local communities, enhancing civic engagement and strengthening local democracy. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ken Macintosh. I apologise to the chamber that I may have to leave before the end of the debate because we have friends from Northern Ireland to meet. I am delighted to speak in this debate today. I congratulate my colleague Joan McAlpine for bringing the debate forward. The fairness in broadcasting, I think, we believe, go hand in hand and applies as much to our national public broadcaster as it does to local television. However, today I have regard to local television and indeed to the ever-increasingly reputable STV in commercial and local television. As a member for the south of Scotland and indeed a resident of Ayr, I firstly welcome the issue of local television licenses for Glasgow and Edinburgh and also the fact that Ayr is on the shortlist for the next round of licence distribution. I am sure, Presiding Officer, that you welcome that too. As I said in my speech on 30 January 2013 in this chamber on a related matter, I said that the UK minister responsible for broadcasting at that time, Jeremy Hunt, had indicated that he wanted people to be able to watch television that is truly relevant to them about what is happening where they live and featuring people they know. That is fair. At that time, no reason, believe it, has changed. Ofcom asserted that nine out of ten adults consume local and national news and 75 per cent rate local news in weather as personal and important types of communication for them. I welcome the increased role that Borders TV is playing in this place in assisting and meeting the local needs and expectations. However, an expansion into more local television to meet the clear and stated needs and expectations of which I spoke and to do so via these public service channels are not, in Scotland at least, the lowest available LCN, logical channel numbers. It appears that the obligation to provide news and come to fares will be met on the location of Scotland's new local services lower down the electronic programme guide listings, lower than shopping, music and movie channels. The lack of prominence that Joe McAlpine mentioned is lack of primacy for local public service channels must be addressed. We are, of course, excited about the launch of a STV Glasgow on 2 June, albeit on Freeview channel 26. That's 26. That's not high in EPG terms. We do believe that this will be another significant milestone in achievement by STV, but it should not be accompanied by a charter for remote control flickers. The quality of its output should have merited an LCN, a logical channel number, lower than that allotted and, therefore, simultaneously a prominence consistent with customer demands. That is no less important as there will be a new framework for local TV in the south of Scotland as it is for Glasgow. Ofcom denied the provisions in section 310 of the communication act, provisions which, and I again quote, that Ofcom will have regard to the interests of citizens and the expectation of consumers. They should manage that expectation now and appropriately. Section 2.47 of the UK Department for Culture, Media and Sport in its July 2011 document, a new framework for local TV in the UK, says that the Government wants to achieve EPG prominence on preview, though acquiring a sufficiently high channel number. It goes on. The Government hopes that this will be channel 8 in England and Northern Ireland and another high number, another high number service for Wales and Scotland. It goes on. It says that it must ensure that EPG providers give the listing and promotion of the programmes on public service channels an appropriate degree of prominence. I hope, and I repeat, 26 is not a low number. I hope that all of this is remembered when BBC 3 is closed down in the autumn of 2015. Thank you so much. I now call on Ken Macintosh to be followed by Stuart Stevenson. I also thank Joan McAlpine for bringing forward today's debate and for securing this opportunity to discuss local television in Scotland. I also offer her Labour support in trying to secure and ensure that local television stations in Scotland are not disadvantaged and are given the platform and the profile they need to succeed. It is an exciting and challenging time for broadcasting in Scotland. The creation of new local television channels, the first of which will begin broadcasting on Monday, offers all sorts of opportunities for communities to express themselves, to share ideas and information and to offer a new perspective. I was sorry not to be able to join colleagues in Glasgow just over a week ago at the launch of the STV services for Glasgow and Edinburgh, although I was not so sorry when I heard what happened to my East Hampshire colleague Jim Murphy MP. For those who were not there, the event included a large and very heavy horse intending to look like the iconic statue of the Duke of Wellington, outside Glasgow's Museum of Modern Art, complete with the parking cone on his head. The reason I know that the horse was large and heavy was that it then stood on Jim's foot and wouldn't budge. I knew that would be applauded by some members of the Labour Party, too. I think that's what you call voting with your feet. Anyway, horsey tales aside, I think that it is exciting that communities around Scotland are going to have a new source of local news and information. It could not come at a better time with traditional print news media in the state of some crisis and disarray. The Carnegie Trust has reminded us that 242 local newspapers have closed in seven years and all but two of the UK's regional daily papers saw a year-on-year decrease in circulation in the last six months. Almost £400 million in print advertising revenue as John McAlpine highlighted is forecast to be lost from the newspaper market by the end of this year alone. That is accompanied by the fact that all of us and the younger generation in particular are now accessing our news and information more and more through different media. Whether it be digital TV, social media or other online sources, pictures and broadcast material have never been more important. I, for one, am very hopeful that Scotland's new local television programmes will provide a vital service broadening the range of voices that we can hear preserving local democracy and strengthening our communities. It is certainly not guaranteed that many of us will be familiar with the old Bruce Springsteen song 57 Channels and Nothing On, but it is an opportunity that many Scots will grasp. If they are to do so, one of the problems they will undoubtedly have to overcome is that of where on the electronic programme guide viewers will be able to find their local station. As John McAlpine has described, across most of the UK local TV stations will be found on channel 8. Here in Scotland and in Wales 2 will be found on channel 23. I should say that that is for good reason, partly, in that our Gaelic channel, BBC Alba, is on channel 8 and in Wales that is taken by S4C. Before I go any further, much as I do want a good slot for our new local television output, I certainly do not want to move BBC Alba. This is a very successful station which is not just serving the needs of our Gaelic community and essential to the revival of the Gaelic language, but which is providing a much appreciated service to the whole of Scotland. The most recent figures show that BBC Alba has an average weekly reach of 750,000 viewers. But make no mistake, the slot you get on the electronic guide matters. An off-com analysis concluded and I quote that the evidence strongly supports the view that EPG positioning is likely to have a significant impact on a channel's performance. Based on this evidence, we consider that if a major digital entertainment channel suffered a significant loss of EPG prominence, that would be associated with a 10 to 20 per cent drop in audience share on the preview platform and a 20 to 40 per cent fall in audience share on the Sky and Virgin media platforms. It is my understanding that UK digital is willing to move Scotland's local TV stations higher up the guide when slots become available. In fact, in the interim period between when Joe McAlpine lodged this motion and the launch of the station, it has actually moved our stations up from 26 to 23. I certainly want to offer my support for that approach. I believe that we should give these new stations every chance of success and a prominent position amongst our plethora of digital channels is one way of doing so. I conclude again by thanking Joe McAlpine for bringing forward today's debate. Many thanks. Thank you very much indeed, Presiding Officer, and let me join others and congratulate Joe McAlpine on bringing forward this important debate. Should I have to leave early for the convener's group meeting starting shortly, my apologies for not necessarily hearing the whole of the debate. I'll look at it afterwards, that's for sure. Broadcast media, TV and radio spice tell me employ something like 3,500 people in Scotland. A very significant industry but more fundamentally is significant for the people who consume the product of that. One of the little things that gives us an insight into what the public wants is the circulation of the press and journal. The press and journal has a circulation roughly equivalent to the herald that Scotsman put together. Why is that so? That is so because the P&J is essentially a paper rooted in local news. Without posts across the north and north-east of Scotland of journalists embedded in communities reporting on what's going on. In my constituency there's a page and a half every day of news from my constituency in the P&J. There is an appetite for local news, but news stations absolutely play into. I think that the time for local television is the cost of entry has shrunk to an entirely different level from that which it was years ago has come. We mustn't allow this initiative to fail because of some essentially technical issues around achieving the right prominence. If channel 7 is going to be available then bluntly it should be allocated because we have a public service broadcaster in the east, in the west and later in other parts of Scotland and therefore OFCOM should respond to their guidance and allocate it to them. I think that there's been a bit of a lack of imagination on the part of OFCOM in examining other ways of achieving this. At the moment I this week for example have come back, switched my tele on in my wee house down here and it said, there are new channels available you have to retune, so you press the retune button three minutes later it's retuned. Fascinating, but what it's actually done as well and I've examined the behaviour on Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, HuMax and a pace box not comprehensive, just a sample it always wipes your favourites because the reality is if you could get your favourites on there and when it retuned it didn't interfere with them then when you put your local channels on your favourites and that came up when you selected the EPG that'd be okay, but the reality is every time you get a retune it overwrites what you have chosen to make it work. Now the software that's doing that in all these boxes is downloaded off the network OFCOM could set regulations in place for the software as well as for the data content of the EPG and require that the providers of the software which is after all in any event UK focused and specifically UK so it's not about you know touching other international things they could do that so with a bit of imagination you could get things to a different place they could even require that you have little icons on your screen so instead of just having a dozen stations on the first screen that you see you actually had let's just choose an arbitrary number 26 of them so that you could actually get it on the screen so I think there's been a lack of imagination the world is changing, it continues to change I've just realised it's 20 years since I first published a website there's a lot happening and there's a lot more to happen let's make sure we get a fair wind on local news based initiative for which I'm sure there'll be great demand and get our local stations prominent in a way that the public can easily access and enjoy them many thanks now Colin Alex Ferguson to be forward followed by Gordon MacDonald thank you Deputy Presiding Officer and can I just start by like others congratulating Joan McAlpine on bringing this debate to Parliament I very much welcome the introduction of local TV and I'm delighted to see it come about I've always been very supporting of the benefits of local TV and I think it's right that we should in the spirit of consensus that Joan McAlpine referred to I think it's right that we commend the UK Government for bringing this forward and particularly I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Rob Woodward and his team at SDV that already had a SDV and for having the vision to back the introduction of local television here in Scotland I think it's wonderful that said I share Joan McAlpine's original disappointment that Edinburgh and Glasgow were the first recipients of local TV and I was a bit surprised when that announcement was made for reasons I'll come to in a minute but I can understand it given the populations of those two cities and my understanding that you need in the catchment area to make this work at this point in time but I look forward to seeing the whole thing being further rolled out I understand that there is a possible option for the future and as a former Ayrshire man and certainly from your own perspective Deputy Presiding Officer I know you're keen to see that be brought about you told me to say so and I'm happy to do so but if I could go back to a rather more parochial note and the sort of reason for my slight surprise of Edinburgh and Glasgow my enthusiasm for local TV is born out of the well really a fact that I think it ought to reflect the words of the cabinet secretary Fiona Hislet when she said in August 2011 Dumfries and Galloway and the Scottish Borders are arguably the parts of Scotland most in need of local television that was said here in Parliament and I think I took part in that debate if I remember rightly and I absolutely agreed with that from what in the Borders and Dumfries and Galloway of Lake because we have regained effectively regained Borders television which had been removed from us and I acknowledge Chick Brodie's recognition of that fact the local need that was there is now much better satisfied than was the case in 2011 but nonetheless I think the cabinet secretary's statement was pertinent Can I just finish, Presiding Officer by saying something on the electronic programming guide positioning and I bow to other members infinitely its superior technical knowledge over mine and I can understand the concerns about it I absolutely can understand those but I just wonder I don't think we should get too desperately hung up about local TV's position on the electronic programming guide and I say that I have Sky Television and I regularly tune into BBC's 24 hour news channel it's on channel 503 what draws me to it is the quality of the programming and while I do understand the desirability of having a positioning of prominence I would argue to a certain extent that the proof of the pudding will be in the eating and if the quality of local television programming is good enough I think people will manage to press two numbers rather than one if that's what it takes on the zapper to get into your program if the attraction of watching that program is good enough because of the quality I think that will be overcome but that said, I absolutely recognise the strength of the arguments for EPG prominence and if it could be moved higher up the list then it most certainly should be so I'm pleased to take part in the debate and I congratulate Joan McAlpine on bringing it forward thank you very much and I now call on Gordon MacDonald after which we'll move to the closing speech to the minister thank you, Presiding Officer and can I also thank my colleague Joan McAlpine for securing this debate I too welcome the new STV local channels that are being launched in Glasgow and Edinburgh over the summer in conjunction with Glasgow Caledonia and Edinburgh Napier universities ETV and GTV are the only new Scottish channels announced so far but I understand that off-com will be advertising licences later this year for Aberdeen, Aire, Dundee, Falkirk and the Inverness areas these channels are necessary because we see so little of Scotland and Scottish culture on the existing public sector broadcaster, the BBC BBC Scotland's local television original output for the year 2012-13 according to the BBC's own management review was 778 hours at the same time as Scottish licence fee pairs contributed 320 million pounds to BBC Scotland the new channels ETV and GTV will broadcast from 12 noon to midnight seven days a week a total of 4,368 hours each a year over four times the total local television hours broadcast by BBC Scotland what is even more remarkable is that the stations will now be operating a fully commercial business model having decided to reject the option of receiving funding from the BBC who are hoping to purchase content from the Scottish channels as well as the UK-wide local TV network to the tune of £5 million per annum for three years STV local therefore frees itself from having to provide the BBC access to its content which it hopes will be able to attract its own revenue in order to attract that revenue I understand that the new channel will provide a mix of local content and programming including news current affairs, live shows as well as quality acquired and archive programming in developing the new channels STV and our partners need to consider how they can address the totally inadequate reflection of our arts, music entertainment and comedy of which BBC Scotland only managed to broadcast 36 hours of in the year to March 2013 there is hope that they may indeed do that as Bobby Hain, director of channels STV, stated last year at the Edinburgh Napier media Monday event securing the local TV licence for Edinburgh means we will bring relevant and engaging content to the capital on a brand new platform this is an exciting opportunity and one we are looking forward to delivering in partnership with Edinburgh Napier University but this is not just about the opportunity to reflect our society on the wee screen it is also about the opportunities they present to our students attending the partner universities Edinburgh Napier University students studying journalism will be given the opportunity to work and train in a live TV environment while work experience will also be available to students studying courses Edinburgh Napier has a track record of producing top journalism and media graduates and I'm sure that the students will prove invaluable to the community programming planned for ETV but these channels, despite the best efforts of STV and Edinburgh Napier will only be successful if they attract an audience and as a result advertising revenue this is where the problem lies in the potential UK originally allocated the stations when the licence was awarded channel 45 on the free view platform they have now reconsidered and will move them to channel 23 while across the UK the other local channels being produced will broadcast on channel 8 surely the solution would be now that the BBC is taking BBC 3 off the air is to move BBC Alpa to channel 7 and then ETV and GTV could be broadcast on channel 8 as well the alternative use for channel 7 BBC 1 plus 1 which by its very nature will be a repeat channel with no original content with even very little of that emanating from Scotland is unacceptable if this is allowed to go ahead on changed that highlights again why broadcasting in Scotland should be regulated by this Parliament thanks I now call on minister Whom is it you, sir, to close on behalf of the Government so thereby please minister thank you of course I join other members in congratulating Joan McAlpine in securing this debate and welcome the range of excellent contributions that were made the subject is both important the two local stations that will start this year in Glasgow and Edinburgh will between them have a potential audience of some four fifths of Scotland's population timely because as we've been hearing from other members, STV Glasgow will start broadcasting in just a few days time on Monday 2 June I was also not at the launch I was literally sent to Coventry but my sympathy I do have sympathy genuinely for Jim Murphy the only reason why I applauded the horse is because I've seen him play football and anything that slows him down is probably a good thing but as a member of the Scottish Parliament for the Glasgow region and coverage of course will extend much beyond even that region I'm particularly pleased to see the new station get under way I was reflecting over the weekend's terrible news and the terrible news of last week of the fire that ravaged the Macintosh building part of the Glasgow School of Art and how something that's particularly small and local can have repercussions that are local but also national and simultaneously international too I'm very grateful I should say at this stage to the good work of the fire and rescue service in Scotland for tackling that blaze but I'm sure that the new STV Glasgow service will perhaps want to cover that Glasgow School of Art's building's journey to recovery it seems to me a good example of a story that can be broadcast coverage and a lot more depth by a station like STV Glasgow real opportunity to bring a unique dimension to television broadcasting so I look forward to STV Glasgow's beginning their broadcast next week and to STV Edinburgh later on in the year looking ahead there is a possibility as we know as many other members have commented of further local television stations the intention for television franchises in Aberdeen, Air Dundee, Falkirk and Inverness at some point later this year implying a start date perhaps of 2015-16 I do say that there's a bit of regret from our perspective of the Scottish Government that the model of an English language television channel for Scotland with local outputs as recommended by the Scottish Broadcasting Commission in 2008 and endorsed unanimously by this Parliament has not been followed nevertheless the increased coverage that is offered by local television under the current model is to be welcomed. I'm certainly keen to see the new stations prosper and from what I've seen from STV's local coverage right the way through to the STV Glasgow app which I have on my phone right the way through to the flagship political programme Scotland Tonight which has regionalised news I think they have stolen the march on local programming and I think it will be a huge success. The biggest key to achieving success as Alex Ferguson said will absolutely be the quality of the programmes and I'm confident about that and as I've mentioned STV has a strong record as a broadcaster but also understanding localism in news 2 I would say though particularly in the beginning when the station is in its early stages in the early phases when people don't quite know the level of the quality they're experiencing that is why the prominence in the programme will be of immense importance indeed Programming we'll see a headline for STV Glasgow we'll see a headline 2 hour evening show the Riverside show from 6.30pm each weeknight the background the panoramic background described well by Joan McAlpine other programming will also reflect Scotland's diversity showing both the popular series of some years back take the high road for different communities in Glasgow and across Scotland a recent series from Poland to be screened in Polish days of honour set in second world war so I believe that STV Glasgow in particular has the capacity to attract audiences realistically though as I was saying especially at the start-up that can only be at least eased by the relatively high position on the electronic programme guide that would record as Ken Macintosh was saying with the basic principles set by OFCOM for the EPG that includes prominence for public service broadcasters we share the entire chamber's dissatisfaction the present channel slot number 23 while recognising as Ken Macintosh said that there's been some movement in the correct direction we would urge digital UK and the powers that be to further move in that direction the station that prominence it rightly deserves Joan McAlpine has mentioned in a previous motion to this Parliament that there's a potential opportunity with BBC 3 and the intention of the BBC Executive to move BBC 3 to a purely online basis thus freeing up that channel sliven slot so there may well be opportunities around that as well the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and External Affairs pressed the case for greater prominence for local television in Scotland she pressed that case with digital UK which we know allocates the EPG guide as far back she pressed this case in May 2012 and will continue very much to make that case for the public generally I believe that the case will be made above all by the programming that SDV, Glasgow and SDV Edinburgh offer it's a great model and as Gordon MacDonald his own contribution bringing in universities giving students a real break in broadcast media something that they struggle I know many journalist students friends of mine that have really struggled to get into that into that media and so this will give them that fantastic opportunity and with all of that put together I'm in no doubt that these channels will fill the public service broadcasting mission to inform, to educate and to entertain and I look forward to releasing that for myself when SDV, Glasgow begins broadcasting next Monday who knows, Presiding Officer, they may even have me on their show at one point thank you Ensure your comments will be noted minister I thank you all for taking part in the debate and I suspend this meeting of parliament until 2.30