 Hello, welcome to the Jenkins documentation office hours. Today is April 18th, and this is the EU U.S. edition And right now we have myself Kevin Martins and Bern over us and joining us for the meeting If anyone else joins in we'll welcome them as all of us For the agenda we have the LCS release from this week The week we released from this week the next LCS baseline discussion Google Summer of Code application period blog post and some notes on where things are at with that Some notes on the version docs project Update for the contributor spotlight Just some notes on the technical review validation from the Jenkins.io pull requests We'll review the documenting pipeline libraries topic that we've been discussing the last couple weeks CDcon just wrapped up in Seattle. So I'm we'll just touch on that real quickly And then a topic that I wanted to start talking about now Just to get the ball rolling the deprecation of Blue Ocean and what documentation tasks that's going to involve Any other topics that you want to include here Bruno, or does that cover everything you had you might have on mind? Yeah, thank you. Nothing new from my side. Oh, okay So then we'll get started and we'll start with the LTS this week. So two point four four zero point three was released on Wednesday the 17th Thanks again to Chris Dern for being the release lead for this There were a couple of questions about the RC and initial communication with the release candidate, but everything was resolved There was another question about one of the back ports, but that was also taken care of and resolved accordingly So the change log was merged the LT the release went smoothly and everything looks good to look looks good from The build and everything else after the fact So thanks to the info team and everyone else for their work on that and for all the work done in getting the release lives We also had weekly two point four five four built and delivered this week Bruno you raised your hand. Sorry. Yes, sorry. It's also linked to the weekly one and the 429 or something error that the docker gives us There is a work in progress done by RV and I on the Comptroller and agent images so that we use Fewer layers When we are building the images so there are at least five or six pull requests at that time in the docker and Docker agent and docker is each agent repositories, and I don't know if they will be merged by next weekly I hope so But then when they will be merged, we should see a decrease in the number of layers we are Pulling from the docker hub and the number of layers we are pushing to docker hub So we'll hope that will help us with getting rid of that 429 error With docker hub Great. Thank you very much Bruno. Sorry. I kind of like glossed over that Didn't register my vision for some reason Yeah, no, thank you very much for kind of explaining and sharing the work that's being done on that. That's really great to know Thank you. Yep Cool, all right Anything else on the LTS or weekly release or any of the work being done outside Bruno or is that? No, I've done this time. Thank you. Yep Okay, so the next step on the agenda So the next LTS baseline has been started as discussion in the developer mailing lists. We're looking at 2.45 to The last handful of releases have been weekly releases have been good without any kind of reporting from the community that there are serious Issues so really any of them would have been an alright choice But 2.45 to happens to be the latest good version that's working has a lot of good changes and includes anything else that was done up to that point So it does look like a reasonable Choice for the next baseline So 2.45 2.1 doesn't need a release lead and checklist this point So hopefully we'll have some idea of what who that might be in the next couple weeks The RC is scheduled for release on May 1st. So that is something you need to get moving on now as opposed to later Next up in the agenda. So Just last week Chris Stern or two weeks ago now Chris Stern posted a blog post explaining that the Google Summer of Code application period has closed Gonna update that link. So if the actual blog because we have a nice blog post for right here Explaining just like the application period is concluded that we're now in the grading period that the org admins and mentors are going through in reviewing the submissions We have over 70. So lots to go through and filter through and make sure they are Legitimate proposals and so the grading will happen Tomorrow is the complete the expected end date or completion date for the grading. So everything needs to be taken care of by then Google will announce their selections on May 1st and then Alyssa is out of office right now, but she'll be back in time to help submit things to Google. So everything's gonna work out Okay, in that sense Bruno you look a little less. Yeah, she should be back. Alyssa should be back next Monday So we'll have a few meetings between admins and mentors Next week to iron out the gradings, you know, if ever there were some big discrepancies between Notations between marks for a same subject and so on. So we'll choose all the Proposal that we submit to Google and then Google will do its magic within the black box and let us know how many projects and which progress Projects they will allow us to work with this year. So End of gradings tomorrow Meetings next week and at the beginning of May we will know more about the project that will be selected in the end Yeah, and I'm sure that once we actually have more clarification from Google will have more more communication either a blog post or some other form of announcement for everything Will announce the projects that did get accepted There will be a lot of communication coming in the next few weeks for Google Summer of Code for sure. Yes, indeed Great. Thank you very much Bruno. I appreciate the insight Next up the version docs project. So again the work is continuing here Chris and bandit Singh have been working on the Gatsby side for site generation I've been going through the actual the version doc site as it stands now reviewing the different sections I just got through the pipeline and managing our using Jenkins. So Slowly but surely waking my way through there The infra team had to focus on Azure and cloud cost saving measures So they've been working diligently on that They're in the process of getting some things put in place that will help reduce the costs for sure There still needs to be some work done there But once they are once they have the cloud costs under control will be putting the version site back onto a priority For them to look at There still needs to be some work done in the infrared to make sure that that will be published and pushed properly so More to come on that But things are coming along well there the version doc site looks really good And it's you know making sure that the T's are crossed and the eyes are dotted making sure things like security advisories are not interrupted or There's no issues in getting those generated making sure things like the change log the download page other areas that are generated or That might need some help in rendering just making sure that everything is good to go And so thanks to Vandy and Chris for their all their work on that And for anyone joining us newly this is the result of google summer code 2023 project coming to Coming full circle and getting kind of hitting the last steps before we finish it out Next up on the agenda the contributor spotlight. So we published airbay lemurs spotlight last week Took a little time to get the tweet the linked in post out, but we did get it out for airbay Thanks to airbay for his Collaboration and willingness to work with me on that And really great to see airbay's kind of perspective as Someone that was not necessarily familiar with jankins prior to joining in the sense of jankins core airbay's familiarity with jankins came in the form of jankins x initially so He had a different journey than some others might have had to project which is really interesting and just a great story great Perspective and just really nice to see that his his background and his his journey to jankins so to speak And then mark weight will be next up i'm working on his now and i'll be submitting it for a review as a pull request to the repository Either the end of today or tomorrow We have i have a couple other things to take care of for cdcon 2024 and the awards, but we'll get to that point Uh, next up is the technical review and validation. Um, so this is something we've we've been discussing the last couple weeks. Uh, i'm As a contributor and the docs officer i might focus his documentation My skill sets a little lacking for some of the uh more development or technical heavy Aspects of contributions and pull requests that are coming in. So, uh, I wanted to find a way to make sure that we could get Uh consistent and reliable validation and review for the technical aspects of any content coming into the jankins.io So, uh, I worked with mark. We just talked with others bruno chris tharn Meg mcrobert mc roberts You know, we're we've expanded the copy editors team in jankins.io in the github repo for jankins.io So that there are more folks there for review so that I can do my due diligence on reviewing documentation and any pull requests That come through and if there are any if there's any content that I don't feel Fully certain about or if there's anything that i'm just unable to Process through instructions that might be a little bit beyond my skill set at this point time something like that I can tag and reach out for further review and help with that sort of thing So it's been going really well We've had a couple submissions from contributors to the developer docs that i've been able to tag the team with and gotten Further contributions and review from others So so far so well it's growing You know exactly as we'd hoped and so Hopefully this just continues on from there and that we have a little bit Something more concrete or something more established that we can kind of point to and potentially even add to the style guide or contributing guide for jankins Time will tell but yeah things are going well there and I appreciate all the assistance that people are offering and helping with these pull requests Next up is the documenting pipeline libraries with markdown or plain text or html So uh the long and short of it is this is something that marcus winter proposed to support markdown For the pipeline library documentation html is just not good It's not the best experience for anyone to have and the markdown makes this process a lot easier and a lot more User friendly in terms of just getting it done Mark's already converted his branch of pipeline library to use markdown He's reported good experiences. No issues. Nothing that is any kind of Detriment to the experience or what he's doing. So that's really encouraging The biggest thing is that if this is something we want to implement into jankins proper It would need to Have the markdown format or plugin installed on the jankins controller But that also means that it would need to be installed on ci dot jankins.io So this is not something we could just implement because it seems like it's a good idea So mark has created a help desk ticket for this so that we can have that discussion and have further insights being shared mark Recounts the steps of how to get this all squared away and how to set it up in the expectations for it So thanks to mark for that work there but we do need some security reviews and Potentially more discussion if anyone feels strongly about it in one way shape or form Some more to come on that but the discussion is happening The the trail has been started. So we just need more eyes and Some feedback on that Next up is cd con 2024 just wrapped up in seattle yesterday So thanks to everyone for attending. Thanks to everyone for participating We all there was also the announcement of the cdf community in Community awards that includes jankins as a graduated project has three awards of their own most valuable contributor most valuable advocate and security mvp are the three jankin specific awards And so the winners of those so security mvp Was yaniv who helped with some vulnerabilities that were reported to the jankin security team back in november last year The Advocate was darin pope who helps with the what's new in lts lots of video recordings for different ways to use jankins and in tutorial videos that are on the cloud b's youtube channel And contributor the most valuable contributor this year was stephan speaker Stephan was recently highlighted in the contributor spotlight So you can get a great idea of his background and the work that he does in jankins and what kind of inspires him there But beyond all that just the work he he does in helping make sure that jankins is Reliable and and performing as well as it can are invaluable and felt by the users Whether they know it or not And so we're going to have a blog post to announce all of that and additionally cdf so The cdf foundation has their overall community awards And then graduated projects have their set their own separate awards within this One of the awards that the cdf foundation Well gives out is a continuous enthusiast Missy or elissa tong won that one. So elissa is the cdf continuous enthusiast award winner So congrats to her and all the winners of the awards again I'm putting together a blog post that will Share all that information and be sent out again either today or tomorrow most likely tomorrow if We don't if I don't get it reviewed in time for today, but It's not anything crazy. So it shouldn't be too too bad But one way or the other in the next 24 hours will have a blog post announcing all the all the award winners for jankins and cdf And then finally, uh, so this is a topic that I want to start a discussion about right now We're not necessarily looking to do any of this stuff right this moment because this is going to take some time But eventually blue ocean The deprecation of blue ocean has been a conversation for some time now in the jankins project And you know, we're getting closer and closer to that point of deprecating it properly So That's going to involve a lot of different tasks and responsibilities But in this case specifically, I want to think about what kind of documentation tasks are going to be required for that Um, there is a whole section for blue ocean documentation in the jankins user handbook So we have to determine whether or that's going to stick around Whether that's going to be redirected to something else or whether it will be replaced if uh, with something like the pipeline graph view, which is Uh, the best alternative solution that we've been Uh, kind of championing and talking about since um, it's become a real real viable option So, um, we could potentially look at extending that documentation further if there's uh input from I want to say is it tim jacome that uh owns that plug-in bruno. Do you remember? I think so he's not the only one, but I think that's a major Uh contributor as far as I know Yeah Yeah, now I can't remember if he's the owner, but I know tim works on it quite a bit and has been I fost him especially there was talk about the pipeline graph view and tim was pretty much The the voice for it. So Tim's done a lot of work with that But the pipeline graph view Is the alternative that is really kind of being touted as the next uh, the next option So, uh, maybe there's enough there that we can extend that documentation Maybe there's some more that uh, isn't necessarily documented just yet I know there's been a lot of work being done on that a lot of new contributors to that plug-in and making sure that it Has these features and of these features work. So There could just there might just be untapped documentation for it that we can Bring to the Jenkins.io the user handbook. So That's something that I was considering Uh, and then what to do with the blue ocean documentation. Do we move it? Do we keep it? Do we have it? you know stored away as like As a breaking case of emergency sort of thing And then thinking about it The last item I had on the last note that I had here was You know with the eventual version documentation site Is that going to be an issue to include the blue ocean documentation if we make sure that it's stuck to an older version Because if it's not available to even utilize It's not necessarily like that might cause issues where it's still available Documentation-wise and it's causing a weird expectation Or creating an inappropriate expectation that it still can be used when it shouldn't be So there's there's a lot of moving pieces to it that I'm I'm not 100% sure of all of them yet. So Yeah, I've I've done enough I've done a good amount of like bringing this up and then showcasing the idea Bruno, do you have any ideas like off the top of your head anything that Comes to mind in terms of like what we need to look out for what we can Best do with this Well, I don't really know but the thing is we have quite a few tutorials and pages of documentation that are linked to blue ocean I'm thinking of tutorials for example that we we wrote a few weeks or months ago So naturally I got rid of the blue ocean references and replaced them with pipeline graph view because that was almost An easy replacement, you know, they were doing kind of the same thing. I know there are more things that blue ocean can do than open graph view, but for basic usage like mines That's okay. So I think that each time we will review or Revamp an existing tutorial or part of documentation. Of course, we should get rid of blue ocean and replace it whenever it's possible with the pipeline graph view as for moving the whole blue ocean documentation Yes, I would say that kind of brutal but Why not we've been warning everybody on each and every channel we have that You should not use blue ocean anymore. So maybe you should do something kind of yes harsh or whatever, but Just say that the Jenkins community does not support the use of blue ocean anymore Even if it's yes, it's written that the status It won't receive. We see sorry further functionality updates, but it still gets updates I don't know if it's security wise or bug fixes or so, but I know that on my instances. I have some updates From time to time. So it's not dead yet, but you should get rid of that The problem is lots of people still need it. For example, even the infra still needs it. So for the people It could start to using that They know how this works and they know that will still work for them until a few months from now So But for the new users definitely we should get rid of that. So the sorry i'm being pretty long in variables But the thing is I think that's a good idea to get rid of the section in the Jenkins IO website about blue ocean plugin itself and We'll see what we can do to help new user. Of course pipeline graph view doesn't have any documentation as far as I know or maybe just A few lines on the plugin web page. So that won't help users, but Yeah, my vote is for getting rid of the Blue ocean plugin documentation In the whole website Yeah, no that that makes sense Bruno. Thank you. Thank you so much for just sharing all that and providing the insight and that Kind of like your experience with it I pulled up the use status note just because I think this might be the easiest way to start the process at the very least is Changing the status note saying hey, it's not going to restore you of any further updates But it's also going to be deprecated at, you know, this point the future or whatever that might be um not something that's going to happen right now or in the next day or two but When we decide to that might be like the easiest start of the transition But I yeah the pipeline graph view doesn't have a ton of documentation and that's where I was kind of thinking maybe we can expand it It might be something that I can work with tim jacome on getting a better idea or kind of Seeing how we can expand on some of the topics that he like that he's worked on and stuff with this so Hmm yep But um, yeah Again, this is all stuff that I want to start at least can start considering and talking about and having this discussion So that it's a not a surprise when it does happen And b so that it's you know, this is a community driven effort This would affect the community as a whole so it makes sense that everyone has some kind of Voice in this if they feel so strongly Yeah, do you have any idea of when the version of the website would be live A few months from now by the end of the year earlier than that So I know that the cost-saving measures and things going on for the info team. They're hoping to have that resolved or at least under control by the end of this month so um After that the the goal so the goal is that's taking care of costs are under control for the cloud costs Once they're under control this can the version doc site can kind of come back into the prioritization list and then be prioritized and Implemented at some point in the near future. I would assume or Based on how everything is going I would say sometime in the next few months I wouldn't say it's going to be close to the end of the year or anything like that I would imagine before the end of summer We can get this implemented, but I don't know that that would coincide with these blue ocean deprecation and removal and all that I think that would be a totally separate aspect of it, but because I was thinking if ever we had the new website the version documentation website live Maybe we could attach the very last version of the blue ocean documentation to the last LTS and then On the next LTS just gets rid of that blue ocean documentation, but That's maybe not a good idea Well, so that's actually so that's kind of like touching on what I had thought What I was thinking Bruno is is if we have because the way the version doc site right now is set up is everything has Latest and then if they have an older version they have an older version You can choose to go to that version of the documentation If we make sure that blue ocean is not part of whatever latest is And latest is the default view for the documentation That's where I was thinking maybe that resolves the problem for us We don't have to totally delete the documentation because I know that can cause issues But we don't have to show it as far as like what the general usage of Jenkins that I would be necessarily because we're looking at You know, it's default is latest. It's default isn't 2.4 26.3 where blue ocean was still very present, for instance so So like that so I think is that what you're kind of getting at with What you were talking about. Yeah, so we're on the same page that which is great. Um, that because like that One of the recent pull requests that's come through for developer documentation was talking about the idea of the old wiki migration um and one of the top one of the items that was Discussed is the fact that um, we don't want to delete the content We want it to be there, but we want it to point to the right content. Uh, so the redirect being configured stuff like that Then and hesitant to just like remove remove things just because of that but If we're going to deprecate it if it's not going to be an option if it's not going to be something You can even really use anymore. It doesn't make sense to keep It up with the latest version. So yeah having it be on an older version of the documentation might Be a good solution in the end in the long run, but yeah things will figure out Got it. I haven't done my homework, but uh, do you know if we have a section on the documentation that talks about the blue ocean containers Because for all the containers it's even worse because they are so outdated that they may even be considered dangerous Yeah, I don't know that it talks specifically about the containers, but that's a good thing better not talk about that Yeah, I mean it does go into the like the docker hub and stuff like that Uh, but it's got the updated. It's got the correct. Um Yeah, Jenkins Jenkins. So yeah, of course for people joining at this point of the video Is better to install the Jenkins LTS and then on top of that Install the blue ocean plugin if you ever need that but you will be better with the pipeline grab you anyway Instead of starting from a now dated specific container already having The blue ocean plugin inside that's not a good idea not at all No, thank you. Thank you for the clarification of the reminder on that Bruno that helps a lot Maybe If it helps the one person it helps a lot so It's okay only takes one Uh That covers the agenda that I had for today We'll continue to the discussion about blue ocean and what we can look for around that going forward Um, that'll be a constant topic from here on out until we actually get to that point where it's deprecated So, uh, yeah, any thoughts any ideas that come up between now and our next meeting feel free to share um Lastly as a housekeeping note, so mark didn't show up today and I don't believe that the Uh later office hours are yeah the later office hours is not on the calendar So asia docks office hours for the uh 19th will not be held this evening or later today Just a piece of housekeeping. I think it'll be back the week after But yeah mark is uh unavailable today for that later on So, uh, yeah, that's all I just wanted to put that out there and make sure All right. Well that cover is everything in my case So then I will go ahead and stop the recording. It'll be available in 24 48 hours as usual And we'll get pro posted on the community discourse site and until next time. Take care. Stay safe And we'll see you then. Bye now. Thank you