 or good evening, depending on when in the world you are zooming in from. We will just wait a couple of minutes and then we will start with our webinar. You're live. Hello everybody and welcome to our webinar. I see that people are joining. We will still wait just a couple of minutes and then we will start with our webinar. Thank you and great to have you here. Hello everybody. Thank you for joining and welcome to this Hyperledger in-depth member webinar with IntellectU. We will just wait a couple of more minutes so more people can join and then we will start. Hello everybody and welcome to this Hyperledger in-depth member webinar with IntellectU on how to avoid the worst mistakes when creating or managing your Hyperledger fabric network. We're very excited about this webinar and welcome to everybody. My name is Tomas Sadej and I'm an ecosystem manager at the Hyperledger Foundation and I will be hosting this show today. I will introduce our panelists very briefly but first let us start off with some housekeeping crew. So first off all are welcome in our community. We are committed to creating a safe and welcoming environment for everybody. So please follow our code of conduct when interacting with each other during the call or also in the community more broadly. You can find our code of conduct on our website and also on our wiki. Here at the Hyperledger Foundation we follow the Linux Foundation antitrust policy and you can also review this antitrust policy both on our wiki and on our website. This session is being recorded live and it will be available in our Hyperledger library along with the slides so you are very welcome to download it later and review the slides and to get you know like if you want to refresh the information shared today you are very welcome to do it. This meeting is also live streamed on YouTube so welcome to everybody joining us live there. So we always encourage for these webinars to be as interactive as possible because we all believe that you will get the most out of it as well right so feel free to raise your hand by using the raise your hand button to get unmuted and to speak up and the more participation we have the better experience will will there be for everybody and more you will be able to learn. If you don't feel comfortable speaking up feel free to use the q&a box or the chat and just in case that any of your questions would not get answered you are very welcome to post it on our discord channel which we will share in a chat in a just a moment. So again feel free to talk to communicate and ask questions to our panelists and we will be happy to answer them. Now without further ado I'm happy to introduce our panelists which is Iana Koudra the head of product management at IntellectU and Vladislav Kopak Rodorowski which is a technical lead at the IntellectU and we'll be doing the portion of the q&a sessions later. So without further ado Anna, Iana over to you. Thank you very much Thomas and good morning good afternoon everyone thank you for joining us today so I'm Iana leading products at IntellectU super inspired by profiles I looked through some registrant profiles yesterday before the meeting so I strongly encourage you to interrupt me whenever you think you have questions or comments to share I will appreciate it and today we are going to discuss the topic mistakes to avoid when using hyperledger fabric for your projects and this conversation will be divided into parts during the first part I will cover the topic from the business perspective I will speak about mistakes to avoid by program and product managers before starting hyperledger fabric projects and during the second part our technical lead Vlad Kopak Rodorowski will hold a q&a session to answer your technical question so if you have technical questions please prepare my part of presentation will take probably up to 25 minutes so after that you will be able to participate in a real conversation I will add a little bit to the introduction of Vlad so Vlad is not only the technical lead of our flagship product the catalyst blockchain platform but also several years ago he launched an r&d unit within IntellectU with an idea to create a management solution for hyperledger fabric to make it easier to manage scale and deploy fabric and after several years it's a product it's a large team and our clients not only using the product for their POCs but actually for running projects in production so if you have real life issues Vlad is definitely a go-to person for a solution I will briefly cover what our team worked on during the last six years to explain how we did learn our to-dos and daunts when using hyperledger fabric so at IntellectU the next slide please so at IntellectU and the next one thank you we knew very early that we are going to leave in the tokenized world covered by blockchain networks so we started quite early from 2014 we had an r&d team working primarily on POCs providing trainings and educational programs for clients we have experimented with a theorem order we by the way was one of the organizations first of the organization that integrated into the into the ripple mainnet and in 2016 we became one of the founding members of a hyperledger organization under Linux foundation this is a vibrant community and we had many opportunities being part of it so we do appreciate it so based on our extensive experience of delivering many hyperledger and other blockchain based projects for clients we gained a lot of experience and lessons about the hurdle that we need to overcome to make it more effective faster and of a higher quality so we created a product first for ourselves the management solution for the hyperledger fabric and it actually grew into the enterprise great product so on the next slide I will just quickly cover what catalyst blockchain platform does the the next one is about our features so hyperledger fabrics actually helps you to achieve what is achievable without it in several months with Catalyst Blockchain Platform you can do it in up to 20-30 minutes it helps you to deploy your networks manage your networks scale your network through user interface and if you prefer to use API you can use API we also built enterprise great features and the next slide please enterprise features on top of the open source and by enterprise features I mean features related to the security to the reliability and monitoring and many others on top of that with Catalyst Blockchain Platform you can run your hyperledger fabric networks using any infrastructure of your choice it's absolutely cloud agnostic you can also use on-prem if you if you want to cover all the cases I would also like to very shortly speak about some use cases for Catalyst Blockchain Platform that we have executed some of them are in progress based on which we have gained most of our recent recent experience so one of the interesting projects is program programmable money project today banking world in banking world programmable payments are limited to credit transfer and direct debit basically so our clients are looking into how to add value to through the blockchain technology to bring increasing functionalities for programmable programmable money KYC platform for banks so as you probably know know your customer procedures are very time-consuming labor heavy and expensive and the requirements anti-money laundering requirements are becoming increasingly strict so banks need to collaborate in order to share KYC data that they actually need to keep up to date all the time and since corporates often use and have accounts in different banks it makes a lot of sense not only from the perspective of the cost-cutting and optimization but also from the perspective of user experience inventory management and invoicing platform also very interesting use case where our clients built a platform to simplify inventory management of the telecommunication assets through tokenization and also simplify and streamline the invoicing process on the platform then investment platform that connects product providers and collective investment schema managers that provides transaction flow between their trade environments and this platform covers all types of transactions price information income distribution distribution of fund certificates and underlying holdings and there are many more interesting use cases I just don't want to take too much time just for you to understand what kind of projects we've been working with and where are we taking our ideas about how to optimize the usage of hyperledger fabric are coming from so let's start from the first mistake to avoid and please do not think that it's very obvious in high level I really wanted to start with this one even though it looks simple but in reality it's not so the most common mistake is not providing sufficient hyperledger fabric knowledge to your team and we see this with many clients with many organizations when starting hyperledger fabric projects it really makes sense to provide an extensive like five or four or five day training for your team on hyperledger fabric including your management team your technical team and your partners and this will help you save a lot of time in the future will help you to manage expectations of different team members and also to avoid shift of your deliverables on the timeline so what we usually do and actually our clients that do not do this from the beginning they eventually do this with us a little bit later we provide a session on hyperledger fabric key concepts as well as on how to use catalyst blockchain platform and also we do a workshop to discuss and understand what would be the optimal setup and deployment for the client specific use case the same applies to the partners of our clients because usually hyperledger fabric consortiums are led by certain organization and those organizational leaders they hold all the hyperledger knowledge within the consortium and they need to have mechanisms to share this knowledge with other participants so we also recommend to provide sufficient training and knowledge to the partners within the consortium so they can easily participate on the network and do it efficiently the next mistake to avoid is setting unreasonable and unreasonable performance expectations so most clients ask about hyperledger fabric performance during the catalyst blockchain platform introduction or during the first or second sessions this is a very popular topic to discuss you can have fun reading dozens of articles online on blockchain performances if clients are on the early stage they sometimes consider like using blockchain overall so they might compare it to the distributed databases and of course letter show better performance than the first but of course comparison is the result of certain misconception so first question that we ask our clients what kind of performance parameters are important for you is it latency the throughput is it scalability some clients are concentrated on the throughput however we have seen that even for most even for most demanding use cases 500 or up to 1000 transaction per second is enough in finance clients quite oftenly prioritize latency over throughput so we know that hyperledger fabric actually outperforms many other blockchain protocols in both those parameters and especially in their combination so in addition using a proper design hyperledger fabric when you scale and you your network you can achieve minimal implications on other performance parameters however it's really important to find balance between understanding how you want to improve your throughput and how it correlates with your compute networking and storage so if you want to increase the number of transactions per second you also need to understand that you will need to have faster execution of transaction processing in terms of networking we will need faster peer to peer networking and in terms of storage of course you will need to have speed up access to the storage and your storage will grow faster so whatever we want to achieve in terms of performance we should always understand which performance parameters are the highest priority for you the third mistake to avoid is the my favorite one because I hear this questions basically from every potential client so mistake is believing that interoperability is actually possible so at the moment interoperability between different blockchain protocols is not possible there are different researchers and different products that are trying to achieve certain level of data exchange between blockchain platforms however when we speak about interoperability between different platforms built on different protocols we expect to see shared data we expect to see similar similar transactions across networks and we expect to have a possibility to share and exchange tokens across those networks but different protocols speak different languages and smart contracts usage is different on various platforms moreover there are different consensus mechanisms data structures data processes is all different and each platform is tailored for a specific set of use cases with specific features so all of this prevents transferring data and even more sharing or exchanging tokens between or across these networks and it makes it very difficult or impossible however clients are trying to be visionary and think like long-term like we all expect at some point for different like blockchains to be interoperable and and live in the interoperable world rather than separate small networks here and there so for for clients that are really looking long term and thinking about how they're going to maybe migrate to some other like updated blockchain products calls etc we do provide an opportunity to use damel on fabric so within Catalyst blockchain platform we support digital asset modeling language the language that was specifically designed designed for smart contracts and with damel you can build your smart contract once and you can use it anywhere basically on any blockchain protocol or even proprietary database and damel apps are atomically interconnected so within Catalyst blockchain platform in this way we provide clients with the possibility to create a second layer on top of the blockchain network and to make it easier to migrate or easy to interoperate of course with some reduction for reduction in functionality of the hyperledger itself next mistake is to not prepare instruments for your consortium to grow quickly the very typical start of the blockchain project is a solo poc when when a one organization comes up with a business model and wants to create a network and a use case and start to play around with several nodes hoping that in the future it will be able to provide value for the partners and clients and they will onboard more organization but as one of our potential clients shared with me last week every time he tries to engage organizations in in the network to invite them there are two options so either organization has technical capacity to do that but does want to create the network of its own or doesn't have technical capacity to join the network although is willing to join the network and participate in the in the use case and this is not a trivial task to grow your network so we were thinking about how can we help our clients to provide their clients with easier options for onboarding so we have created a white label solution the management white label management system where partners and clients of our clients can simply lock in and create themselves a hyperledger fabric service or maybe use the node like multi-tenant node because we see that those consortium leaders are actually managers and creators of infrastructure anyways so this is something that we suggest our clients to do to think about how they are going to grow their networks and what they are going to offer their clients understanding that technical capacity is a limitation for sure for growing the blockchain network and the last mistake that I wanted to discuss is relying on off-chain governance so anyone who actually did run hyperledger fabric projects know how difficult it is to execute off-chain governance and to avoid this we need to have a voting system so I will quickly share how we do this within Intel or within Catalyst Blockchain Platform so for example you want to onboard an organization to a channel so in order to do this through the catalyst voting system you simply go to the channel tab you click add organization you specify you select an organization from the list of your partnering organization you specify the ordering node you have the previous slide so you specify parameters the ordering node from the system channel and permissions like endorses reader writer admin and you click add and at this point there the organization was not added to a channel instead the proposal was created so after this and on the next slide you will see this through the eyes of other organizations so in other organizations that participate on the channel they will need to go to the channel sections click on proposal section and then they will see that their pending proposal to add an organization to a channel that they are about to approve or not approve so before all organizations depending on your policy will approve adding this organization to a channel it cannot be added and this helps to manage your network on chain those are some mistakes that I wanted to share with you today I will be happy to answer your questions if you have some so far and if not I will be happy to give stage to blood to take your questions thank you very much yana that was a very interesting presentation and very relevant topics and you know the discussion what to avoid when deploying the high pleasure fabric now we do have some questions and I do see that machine has raised his hand so just a second I will unmute you talk so machine please feel free to unmute yourself and ask the question to Vlad hi Vlad can you hear me yes I hear you thanks Vlad it was a very good session we had thanks for that I just got a quick question where in the concern or rather an observation which was shared regarding adoption of hyper ledger fabric although if one organization adopted it becomes very vital and important for other organization also to chip in so in that mean do we have any technical certification that we can look out for by doing so we can enable the technical capabilities and at large it would be multi organization so that even the you know the partner organization feel comfortable by doing that certification and then joining in by elevating their technical skills thanks can you a bit clarify your question I mean like you're you're saying that at the beginning you had a single organization right and then you were saying that there are others that are willing to join through some certification process what do you mean with certification process because I didn't understand I'm sorry yeah so if we have hyper ledger in our organization and if we are inviting the next organization or our partners to join in and since they don't have capabilities the technical capabilities can we then not recommend them to go through a technical course on hyper ledger which will enable them to then feel comfortable and then join in and likewise the chain would grow okay I got it so basically you have a partner that does not know hyper ledger fabric and is willing to join am I right that's right okay so as Yana said the best practice is to share hyper ledger fabric knowledge between all participants because in order to manage a network in order to maintain an organization anyway you need to know hyper ledger fabric but there are possibilities cases that we implemented meaning that organizations that is joining only using MSP ID basically it's a bunch of certificates but all the structure is hosted by someone else so our ordering service is hosted by someone else peers can be hosted by someone else so that organization that is joining and does not have capability can join a network just with an MSP ID and they can also connect their applications and involve transactions on behalf of that MSP ID but somebody somebody else needs to be needs to host infrastructure for for others I would say so yeah it's possible and it's a it's a popular use case I would say because we I hear a lot that there are some companies that have huge teams of developers they can host anything but also there are other small ones that basically don't have enough resources and they are willing to join and they're they're believing like that in future they will have some resources but they want to join now so what to do what we propose is to uh either use a ready to shoot like out of the box solution like KBP or any other on the cloud that's the first option the second option is to ask somebody to host uh notes for you important that you are not obliged to host orders because ordering service should be hosted only by trusted partners and uh basically you don't even need peers if you uh have like different MSP ID you can invoke your transaction uh using uh peers of somebody else of course it depends on endorsement policy but for most of these cases it's fine so I think uh there are possibilities yes but you need to trade like you need to do tradeoffs right so you don't have enough resources uh delegated to somebody else and wait until you have enough but uh this is the best practice again is to transfer hyperlogypharmic knowledge and allow all organization to host their to host their notes and to be a consortium fully decentralized only in that way it's a true setup of hyperlogy fabric from my perspective of course right uh just a follow-up question I'm sorry to interrupt but is there any Linux foundation affiliated hyperledger certification as well just for my knowledge oh you mean certification process like an exam for a certificate that's right um yes there are like two types of certification programs within Linux foundation for administrator and developer that you can take um and become a certified hyperledger fabric developer or admin perfect back on thank you very much you made my day thank you for your question uh machine and we will share the certification information also in the chat uh we have some other questions here uh so uh Lisa would you like to come off mute it's a very interesting one I see if not uh Vlad could you will you answer the question from Lisa yeah so uh it's a very often asked question about disaster recovery mechanism and uh when we are talking about disaster recovery of hyperledger fabric we need to understand and we need to know that it's a distributed system so um I always tell people instead of uh building like bullet proof disaster recovery mechanism make sure you have a good consortium a good good enough consortium that you have enough ordering nodes that are shared among trusted partners and if half of those partners go down you still have forum so that's the first important note always make sure you have a good consortium and uh that is deployed across multiple clouds multiple infrastructures that's the first thing second thing disaster recovery uh it's can go through uh backup and restoration process so uh hyperledger fabric has possibility to backup the node and restore it from a no uh from a backup uh there are some limitations though uh for peers and for orders because uh if you restore for example uh a node from uh from a higher block I would say uh then uh so if there is some uh disagreement between nodes your network may fail after uh restoration of from a backup so uh there's only two options I would say just backup and restore from a uh yeah backup and restore not from a backup and uh having good enough uh consortium making sure that at any point of time if one organization disconnects you still have a quorum of ordering service that's the most important thing uh you don't need to care about peers I would say you don't need to care about CAs the most important part of hyperledger fabric is ordering service and as long as ordering service leaves you can continue uh joining new peers and executing transactions also uh in KBP we propose to our customers that are using enterprise package uh to share in an organization across multiple regions meaning across multiple clusters so uh as a user you have a single MSP ID that can be shared uh across two clusters and uh in each cluster you would have like if you peers if you are hosting orders or sorry if your orders if you are hosting them and also a few peers like two on region one and two on region two and at any point of at any point of time if your one region fails you can easily uh switch router to the second cluster that is up and running and continue accepting transactions invoking them and so on so uh to summarize first of all good enough quorum second of all uh having backup backup and functionality you know so you will be able to backup and out and restore it and the third is uh possibility to deploy across multiple regions though the last one is expensive usually and not all customers decide to go with that so uh it really depends on uh it really depends on your resources and requirements I would say and yeah that's it thank you thank you Vlad uh we also have a raised hand and it's James that want to ask your question uh so uh James please feel free to unmute yourself and uh just go ahead thank you thank you can you hear me yes yes perfect okay uh Vladislav uh what kind of certificate authority architecture would you recommend for a consortium of banks for example in a KYC use case um it depends on your consortium but usually uh of course it's a one root CA that is uh that is public usually then there is a private CA of company like of a of a consortium company for example and then uh we I would say suggest to use on the third level is hyperlegia fabric CA as an intermediate of course so you have three CAs the first one which is public the second one uh it's private of uh that belongs to a company that is holding consortium and the third one is lowest level is hyperlegia fabric CA because it's the most easier way to manage hyperlegia fabric identities with uh hyperlegia fabric CA I would say of course you are not obliged to use hyperlegia fabric CA if you don't like I heard a lot from uh security enterprise consultants that um they don't like it for various reasons uh for mostly for security and we have successful cases uh that customers uh customers use their own CAs and uh fabric works with uh with it without like any problems did I answer your question or do you want some something to clarify yeah yes thank you no no that was fine thank you thanks also uh take a look place what uh at Hartford vault running as CA so uh it's a very like I would say it's uh it's a secure way to launch your own CA on your own infrastructure and also hyperlegia fabric uh you can integrate with Hartford vault to store all the identities and there's even possibility uh if you know what to do to uh store to um to use transit engine of Hartford vault and to store all private keys only in Hartford vault so they never leave the storage it's like using HSM but the the cheaper way with Hartford vault and again Hartford vault can be used as CA as well that's interesting topic for search I would say okay thank you um what I want to I want to go back to the previous question uh from Lisa uh because I didn't answer one uh her question about how much can create in the service copies of data increases speed of not creation so yes uh regarding that uh when you're doing a backup uh you're basically packing all the data like hold your ledger into archive and then it's really uh saves you a lot of time if you have a huge ledger uh instead of uh starting a peer from scratch from block number one so yes that's definitely a case for disaster recovery because uh we have network we have networks with like a few million blocks and starting a peer from uh from block number one could take I would say they it depends of course on your performance but yes uh it's it increases your speed a lot also take a look at snapshot functionality of a peers uh there is uh functionalities that allows you to start a peer from a snapshot you won't be able to query previous blocks but you will have the needed world state I hope I answered your question great uh thank you Vlad uh and we have a question for from David Grump as well and David would you like to come off mute and ask otherwise Vlad if you don't mind would you mind continue with the Q&A? Yes yes uh give me please 30 seconds I need to understand that question about uh self self endorsing a transaction there's a question basically uh can you uh remove a peer from a transaction flow if I'm not mistaken just uh go directly like form a proposal uh go directly to order and commit it to tell the truth I have never done it but uh I think it's possible if you have access to peers uh to peers keys to peers crypto materials because uh proposals needs to be signed needs to be signed on behalf of them if I'm not mistaken but in general if you can form a proposal and send it to order and order accepts it yes why not uh but no no no I'm sorry so uh there's a lot going on and uh especially when you have uh private collection for example this case uh isn't possible because private collection is stored on a peer uh during transaction flow and uh you won't be able to uh you won't be able to modify and or send your uh private collection information to order because order does not know anything about private data so I think it really depends on a use case somehow it's possible for mischief but to tell the truth I never tried uh you can follow up me on a me on an email and if you're really interested in uh in this question uh you can talk about it I think also I'm in a discord chat so uh you can talk there it's a interesting use case and I have never thought about it it's everything I can say so uh Thomas I also noted there are some questions in the chat as well um and some of them are follow-up questions uh for the DR uh probably as well just to understand how we are going to prioritize them thanks yeah yeah so um we also have uh questions in the chat and thank you for pointing it out Tiana um so uh Kiran asks is the DR process is it manual or is it automated oh if you're asking if you're talking about QDP so it's a half manual process I would say because we are delivering an application that is running on Kubernetes so our application does does not have control over Kubernetes and in order to do a backup you would need to backup a persistent volume claim you would need to make a snapshot of this of a volume our application can integrate with tools like velaro in order to shadow uh volume snapshot but uh if you are talking about zester recovery and uh restoring a node uh from cluster one in cluster two you would need uh some manual way of transferring that persistent volume uh into uh and the second cluster so uh as KBP we try to make this process for you as simple as possible as automated as possible but since our application is namespaced and it can download data from volume uh we are limited to some um processes and those needs to be handled manually like half manually which it's definitely much simpler to do with KBP rather than build it yourself but uh interaction of a blockchain operator is needed because again uh applications in Kubernetes they don't have control over volumes and you would need to transfer that volume somehow the only thing that application can do with integration with uh velaro operator for example is to shadow a snapshot a regular snapshot of your node that's what application can do but the rest uh should be triggered by a user um i think that's that's it from my side uh what's the next one yeah we all yeah we also have a question from Alexander um could you please describe the process how you make msp and tls certificates renewal and do you have some sort of automation in your product yes uh so that's one of our features uh msp rotation and renewal so let's go over what you need to renew like what kind of certificates we have we have uh it's called we have signatures not not signature what was the word ah yeah we have signing identities for local msp IDs so for example let's take look at peer peer has signing identity and tls identity what happens if we renew them basically nothing uh if you make sure that renewed identity is belongs to the same ca it's fine and you don't need to modify your ledger because signing identity of a peer and tls identity of a peer are not stored on the ledger so you can renew them without any doubt the second uh we have order and this order it's a bit different story so uh signing identity of an order can be rotated again easily and you don't need to touch ledger so what you need to do is to regenerate the certificate using whatever ca you have and restart your order let's say but this tls identity is different story uh i'm sure like uh i'm assuming that you are using rough and rough requires tls enabled mutual tls enabled because of tls pinning it means tls certificates are stored in the ledger in channel configuration thus you would need to rotate uh them through channel configuration updates and that's the part where it gets trick where when it gets tricky so how to rotate a concenter certificate at one point of time make sure you're rotating only one certificate so let's uh and you would need to make sure that when this note goes down for a restart for example you wouldn't lose your quorum so make sure you have enough notes up and running only after only uh after that uh start your renewal process although haplish fabric has some uh they they won't allow you to rotate they won't allow you to uh to rotate certificate if you don't have enough notes but nevertheless make sure it's from your side so uh you generate a certificate for an order and uh if i'm not mistaken uh you are you do not apply it on order you uh you do a channel update transaction you run channel update transaction once it once it was accepted by orders you put it inside of order and for start note after some time like order is recognized is a new certificate and it's up and running uh from our side from side of kbp we are automating this process the only thing you would need to do is basically two or three steps first of all you would need to go to aca and generate new certificate uh and place the old one into certificate revocation list then go to a channel by channel uh starting from a system one if you have uh and uh channel by channel you would need to rotate certificate of course uh it depends on your policy on the channel so if your policy on the channel does not allow you to uh uh does not allow you to endorse transaction only by yourself meaning you have majority and a number of organization is bigger than two you would need to collect signatures from other participants and that's where voting system that iana was talking about becomes handy because uh our voting system is basically a gene code that is uh that uh that help you helps you to collect signatures among participants so uh with our kbp certificate rotation process takes you like at most 20 clicks and you would need to visit three modules and that's the process uh about MSP rotation uh it's much simpler than rotation of concenters because in order to rotate MSP certificate you would need you don't need to collect any signatures MSP belongs to you and you're the only one who is responsible for it so uh you don't need to you can endorse update transaction only by yourself and it means what you need to do is generate new certificates put them into MSP folder or whatever you have and execute channel update transaction so yeah that's it and i think uh guides for these processes are well described in high pleasure fabric documentation i even remember like the topic it's definitely roughed configuration if i'm not mistaken so yeah thank you very much vlad i saw that kiran has a couple of questions kiran would you like to come off the mute and ask them directly to vlad no okay then uh i think we can just move on uh down to tibor as well vlad would you mind taking the tibor's question as well yes yes but take me a few seconds so maybe i can meanwhile uh answer another question there is a anonymous attendee asking about our partnership with swift if um any organization wants to develop a product that may compete with swift how do we manage conflict of interest so uh within our organization we have different divisions and there are services uh part and also products so our team only works on product that mean that we do not build products for other organizations and the use cases i i mentioned sometimes our colleagues participate in development of the projects for clients but mainly i was talking about client that purchased catalyst blockchain platform to build projects on top of it so we did not build their solutions we provided management system for their blockchain network if that answered the question so we do not build product that can compete with swift answering tibor's question it's about quantum computing it's uh i heard first time i heard this question it was like 2015 and uh you were uh learning daml and uh useful asset if i'm not mistaken and everyone was asking like about quantum computing computing so what i can tell you uh yes it's possible but uh we are really far behind of this being uh used by enterprise companies and uh really by uh quantum computing adopt adoption so what we need to care of i would i would say is bugs like java had uh a week ago is ecd uh ecd assay algorithm so basically for two years we were working with an algorithm in java that allowed to bypass the crypto security that's the bigger problem i would say rather than upcoming quantum capacity so i'm not that proficient in quantum computing i would say and i'm just telling that taking care of our current issues is the most has the bigger importance rather than caring about quantum capacity because uh if we would have a computer strong enough that can break any uh crypto algorithm uh not only blockchain would be affected right and only not only hyperledge fabric but it's hyperledge fabric it's a distributed database with a bunch of crypto stuff on top of it and policies right so any application would be affected not just hyperledge fabric and it's a far broader topic and i'm not an expert on that for sure i'm sorry thank you very much vlad we are almost at the top of the hour but we also have a question from youtube um so um and it was posted in a chat so are you saying there could be single nodes potentially in the forms of devs with hyperledger expertise that can be used to on board and maintain large number of organization on boardings as by it and miller yes it's possible and uh that's one of uh use cases we were considering with our client uh because uh a client uh wanted to host all the infrastructure but clients of our client were very small and they couldn't just host anything so uh we were issuing we were issuing msp like a unique msp with uh ca's and uh adding those msp's on the channel and invoking transaction transactions on behalf of them uh the only problem would be is uh endorsing endorsing policy but it it really depends on your use case a lot of customers use hyperledger fabric with endorsement policy any and it means they don't really care about uh data not just consistency but data security they just use mostly hyperledger fabric for uh distribution for data distribution so yes it's possible but again it's a trade-off so if you don't host nodes you don't control uh you cannot be endorser right because peer belongs only to a single msp id uh what you can do you can ask your customer to first appear for you with your msp id that's possible yes a question for me that's how much can we somehow take uh the rest of the questions offline uh maybe like follow up with uh uh with the answers um yes absolutely how to do this in the best way yeah uh the best way would be uh to use our discord channel which i will um show immediately or you are also uh welcome to contact us directly uh through our uh contacts uh here there are also contracts from uh yana and lat and you can contact them directly as well or reach out to us through our discord channel uh we are at the top of the hour so um just a couple of more things um as mentioned please join our discord channel to get all of the your questions answered um uh you can get answers to the hyperledger project uh special interest groups working groups and much much more um i would also like to invite you to join our future uh hyperledger foundation webinars uh so on the may 4th we are hosting cripsy and they will be explaining how to uh simplify uh enterprise blockchain with cripsy core and on may 18th we'll be hosting train yard and they'll be talking about how to find business value interest through blockchain uh last but not least uh hyperledger global forum is on we're back live from september 12 to september september 14 in dublin ireland um now registrations are opened and you can also submit a proposal for a presentation or talk uh until uh april 29th please scan this uh please scan the qr code to get more information or visit our event page for the follow-up questions that uh did not uh we were not able to get to uh please use our discord channel or um contact also our panelists directly uh iana and vlad thank you so much for your time today and providing this jam packed session full of very interesting information and thank you everybody else for joining everyone thank you thomas and igor thank you looking forward to uh i have conversations with you guys uh offline please feel free to email us or reach us on linkedin um and we will make sure to uh fill up with your questions uh wherever you post them yeah and and one problem that uh there's an error in a typo in my email so please contact iana yeah okay so yeah thank you thank you everyone