 For our first speaker of the day, day three, we have someone here whose name I have to pronounce on a Swayo. It seems like some people in Holland and Belgium call him Swa, but that's another interpretation. But Stefan is not really a German Catholic priest that you would be googling now. No. But he has as well a very special interest in networking security and measurement. Skills that this fellow nameholder that you can find googling on Wikipedia presumably is using as well. Swayo is a well-known player in the internet field here since more than two decades. And being involved in various programs, events and comedies, like if I pronounce this right, Euro 9 or Euro IX and Dinock. So some of you probably know him. He's as well a founding member and managing director of E6 for 15 years. So that makes him, besides being an old fart like me, he's above all a time traveler, an everlasting wanderer, an explorer, a learner and heavenly willing to share his experience and knowledge with all of us. So I have the pleasure to introduce to you Swayo. Please. Enjoy. Bonjour et bienvenue à la traduction de ce talk par Swayo. Aujourd'hui la traduction va vous être faite par Louis. Et on va parler du côté économique d'internet. Bonjour à tous. Je ne m'attendais pas à ce qu'il y a autant de monde qui viennent ce matin. Et ça fait plaisir de vous voir ici ce matin. Merci beaucoup. Comme on l'a dit avant, on va parler de la neutralité du net, net-outrality. C'est un gros buzzword. Je ne suis pas vraiment un juriste, je ne suis pas vraiment un économiste. Je viens vraiment du côté technique, du côté du réseau. On ne va pas vraiment parler du côté légal. Je crois qu'il y avait un talk à propos de ça ailleurs. Ce n'est pas surprise, c'est vraiment très à propos du réseau de la technique. Ok, de quoi va-t-on parler? Je vais vous montrer l'aspect commercial et comment est-ce que ça influence internet. Beaucoup de choses sont cachées dans le cloud, etc. On va essayer de trouver des stats, des nombres. Je vais vous donner quelques extraits d'arguments que certains avocats et opposants de la neutralité du net sont basés. Je me suis beaucoup inspiré d'un film qui s'appelle Toutes les Créatures sont les Bienvenus. All Creditors Welcome. Ok, je vais devoir me dépêcher un petit peu. J'ai dû réduire le nombre de slides que j'avais. Ok, on a aussi le plan. On va commencer avec ça. C'est marrant, mais le premier papier que vous pouvez regarder et qu'il y a une relation avec Internet s'appelle le réseau d'ordinateurs intergalactiques. C'était plus l'année 1963. Ensuite on a eu ARPANET, peut-être que certains d'entre vous ont entendu parler de ça. Et ça ressemble vraiment à l'Internet qu'on a aujourd'hui. Ça a fonctionné pendant très longtemps. Tenez 60, tenez 90. Peut-être que vous connaissez ça aussi sous le nom d'ARPANET qui veut dire défense ARPANET. L'ancêtre d'Internet était à l'origine d'un projet de la défense américaine. Après on a eu NSFNET, NSNET. Ok, c'était les beaux jours. Dans les beaux jours on pouvait cartographier Internet sur une seule page. Si vous regardez, en fait c'est une mode représentation de différentes universités. On voit plusieurs universités américaines, également quelques gros boîtes Internet, comme DEG, comme Xerox. Dès le début il n'y avait pas seulement des chercheurs, des géants dans l'académie, mais également des entreprises sur ces réseaux, sur ces tancettes d'Internet. Comme je l'avais dit, il y a NSFNET qui est vraiment des réseaux importants qui étaient pionniers. Researcher at this time has for every computer, if your computer was built, it has a new terminal on the desk. Think of it, five supercomputers center, three others. You have eight screens and every screen has a different command set. They are really trying to make it easier for them. It would be nice to have one terminal and a single interface on the machine to be able to connect to a lot of different machines. A single interface for multiple machines, it would be nice. NSFNET was founded in the 80s. We are talking about different V7s at the time, so 56 kbps, 1.5 mbps. At the time they introduced a third concept. So what is it here? It is a level within an organization or a system. It is a level within an organization or a system. You have two, which maybe you could think of big cities or regions. For example, in the middle we have a distribution layer. We can think that it could be cities. I think that the last lines below with the green circles correspond to the Internet sources. They are rather local to the city. So the purpose of NSFNET was mainly the research on education. But the way they talked about it and the shit they described it was that it was not made for commercial use. And it is interesting because NSFNET was one of the first networks with a charge of use, a regular use. Almost like a license. Because they wanted to make sure that the network was used as for the reason why it was built. So the NSFNET team had problems with localization. I imagine when they tried to deploy it locally in some cities and regions. All these old, really great stuff. Some have already heard of UCP and dial-in and even... We are talking about old Internet protocols, exchange of messages like Usenet. At the time, the app that was really interesting was KillerApplication. Without having 5 different emails and accounts to use your modem, you dial-in to 5 different platforms. You could use one and it was formed. A private is interesting because NSFNET really allowed to make different networks together. So to interconnect e-services, e-mail for example. Now we are going to talk about economics. First, introduction of economics. Economics covers both commercial and non-commercial aspects of the Internet. The Internet economy describes different aspects of how we build and how we operate and use the Internet. So what is NS? So NS, what was it? Advanced network service. It was founded by Merit Network, IBM and MCI at the beginning of the 90s. It was operated until the end of the 90s. There was non-commercial and non-commercial. The non-commercial part was the dorsal spine of NSFNET. Then you have the more commercial aspect called core. It was the dorsal spine of NSNET. It was used for both research and commercial use. Actually, it's three years ago. Actually, this is really true. It's a system that stopped in 2015. It's only three years ago. This kind of thing can live for a long time on the Internet. So we are obliged to start by talking about the DNS and the DNS core that we want to explain a little bit on the Internet. And we also explained the first mailing lists. The question is, who will pay for the Internet? Who will pay for this structure? Even if the governments have a lot of money, for example, there is a million dollars to fund ARPANET in the original. Safe for the soul, the general investment for the Internet was a million dollars. It was used as an investment that came from the US defense budget. And at the time, it was a lot of money. Anyway, we are talking about access points to the network. Ironically, it's the level above that we are talking about on the Internet. It's the point where the different networks interconnect. That was the problem in the first network. You had to use this kind of access point and have to be able to pay it. As you can see, the red clouds, think of it as the NSF backbone or the NS core. But it was not free to install that. Now, if we are interested in the blue box on the slide, they have to pay for access points to the network. It's actually, you pay twice for your traffic, because both parties paid for the traffic to access the network. But what's the other case? If you are both in the same data center, and maybe in the same network, you have to pay twice for the traffic to access the network. If you are both in the same data center, and maybe in the same data center, we don't have access to the network. Do we necessarily have to go to the NAP to transfer data to someone who is just next to us? If I put a cable between the two, we could transfer files like that. That's the starting point of the exchange idea on the Internet. Take all the connections between the data centers, and give them the opportunity to exchange from time to time, to transfer information without paying. That's it for the access points to the network. And what happened in Europe? The DFN was founded in Germany in 1985, based on OZI protocol, but I can't talk about it because it would be too long. But it's not compatible with the network we have today on the Internet. There were two university projects, UNIDO and X-Link, maybe the most difficult one for you to remember. And they already had a connection with ARPANET in the United States. And I also used to transfer by package. The DFN, they switched over later. It took them some time to accept. The DFN didn't use this transfer mode yet. They spent quite some time switching. So individual networks and association was founded in 1992. The individual network, IN, was founded in 1992. I didn't think it was that old, but I have to say good work, guys. It was a good thing that you were there at the time. The English guys already had in 1973. And the English people on their side in 1973 were already connected to ARPANET. 12 years before the German telecom community connected. Everybody knows Blitzchum Text? I think we all have seen some of the last German telecoms. Everybody knows BTX, I guess. And I was also related to Internet. They were 850 years old. They existed in 1983. So how did they connect to the Internet? Is it connected to the Internet? In fact, there were a lot of CD's that were sent, so they needed to be connected to the Internet. Through BTX, the BTX platform could be connected to the Internet. It was a great start in Germany. The other way was to go through the University network. I remember one day, they had him, Modem, at the University of Berlin. They had to make a number by hand to connect to an address. There were also other operators. It was the little green bottles we saw on the way I presented earlier. But there were also competitors. Some of them were Fidonet or Mailbox System. But after the Internet was established, it was over. The first day, the Internet day, how did it start? The new protocol was launched in 1983. It was the first time we used TCP and IP. The first email was received in September 1984. The first DO was in 1986. The protocol hypertext transfer dates back to 1989. The Internet for private customers. This is an important thing. It was the first time that the Internet was developed for individuals. It's important that it's the first time that we had an user interface that was easy to use. In 1995, we had the CD that allowed us to access the Internet in Germany. I don't think it was the best Internet navigators we had at the time. But it's already navigators. You can see the posters, you can access the Internet, etc. If I have to tell you all this, we'll meet again tomorrow morning. That's why I'm fast. Okay, an explanation of the networks. Maybe for some of you, it's going to be in the U.S. because you already know all this. Let's look at how traffic flows on the Internet. It moves. We'll start in the middle with the heart. We still have the same third-party model. The connections between the big funders are good for some companies today. There are a lot of companies that do that today. Very international. The last company is there. Also not too many Asians. But this is actually the people who run the backbone. These companies really function on the Internet. All the international connections, for example. Then we have the second-party, just below. So you pay a little for that. And then the last third, the closest one to you, that's where you pay the most. I won't show you if we continue to go down. If you exchange things between yourself without going over the tiers above you, you can also use traffic to not be very expensive at all, even for free. And it's really one of the things for the internet to be built. It could be quite cheap there, but it's not a reality. Reality is in worse cases. There's a trend of traffic from tier 3 to tier 2 to tier 1, and then back again to tier 2 and tier 3. So you pay a lot of money. Sometimes you have to go through all the tiers and then it's really going to be expensive. In reality, the vast majority of the traffic is between tier 3 and tier 2. So... We often go through the intercontinental and internet doors. It's a lot more localized. And that's cool because it optimizes costs for both consumers and for internet users. As you can see, the costs are reduced over the course of time thanks to these economic optimizations. We can optimize where the traffic passes and optimize the costs in this way. It's a bit more complicated. We have four different types of equipment represented on this graph. We have 4G, wireless networks, radio networks. Then we have the fiber that goes to the house, the fiber that goes to the apartment. And then there's internet on it. Of course, we have the coaxial network used for television at the beginning. We compare up to a gigabit speed on this type of network. Then, of course, we have a classic network with fiber that originally has the telephone network. It's yours. We're talking about the last kilometer between what really gives you access to the internet, what really gives you access to the backbone, and between your homes. That's what we call the last kilometer. Don't forget that it doesn't really give you access to the internet. It just connects to your access to the internet, but it's not enough to give you access to the internet. Later, we'll talk a bit about ADSL. ADSL, SDSL. Now, we're going to talk a bit about content, what we're talking about. We're going to talk about content delivery. We're going to talk about content, so it's going to be videos, websites, everything you download on the internet. We can see the different continents. We have Europe, East Asia, the ocean, North America, South America. Everyone around here is talking about cloud servers, Azure, Amazon. They have big data centers, and these data centers are distributed all over the region. We realize that all these cloud services also try to locate their services that are close to their customers. We can see the blue arrows that really represent internet protocols, public internet. Public internet is really shared between everyone, between all these actors. Now, what we see today is that more and more these different internet service providers are interconnected in a completely private way. For example, you have a connected object with a lot of services. Then you connect to Frankfurt, to the Amazon, to Frankfurt, to WS. Then, where do you give your stock? Is it really in Frankfurt? Or is it in another country? In fact, you don't know. I think the reason you don't know is because these private connections you can't see them. You can't see. If you go through public internet, you can see that you take public internet. But when you go through private networks that connect different providers, you can't see it, it's hidden. In fact, it's completely different. This TR1, we had the red clouds in the presentation. And 90% of the traffic is these exchanges inside companies. Public internet uses a small part of the world traffic. If you look at the example of the transmission, we connect to the Universal API, to the information and re-transmit it. You can easily map it. The good idea was to make distribution networks of content. That's what we see on the red bars. We have put access points so it's faster to access it for the user. So there are some copies of these content. And so you can access the content from the location of the closest data. So it's faster and less expensive. Why do we need to go as fast for economic reasons? Then there are special cases. That's the VOD, audio and video at the request. Now it's not exactly the same. There are questions about DRM that are different from one country to another. There are even services that you can't have from one country to another. For example, the BBC service you can't access from Central Europe. And that's not because of Brexit. It's much older than that. The problem is that it's content that's for the most part of it. So now we have the services over the top, OTT. That means there are operators who don't have their own network. They don't have their own network of access. They produce content. It's not exactly the model where you produce content and you transmit it and then you pay. These people need a network that is already installed, necessary, and that goes to the consumer. And a network that is enough to supply this content and that the user can access it. So I define it a little bit. It's the search engines, it's the social networks, it's the German video. And where it's discussed a lot, particularly in Germany, is that those who transport these data don't really participate in the search engines. They are not the income, it can be cash, because people pay to access the internet. But there is another kind of money, it's our personal data. And for example that's what they use to make advertising. And that's very important. And on that the internet sources don't touch anything, and that interests them a lot to have access to. It's much more valuable than any cryptocurrency. Now that we have this model, we can do a diagram like the one I show. And in the center, you have the clad funds, CDN funds and other services that people do. But is it really true? And yes, that's a general diagram. If you're interested go and see the link I put, kaida.org, where there are a lot of alternatives. It dates from 2017. And you really see that structure in an onion is put in place. It becomes more and more dense the more you approach the center and you also see the center of some sites that produce the most content for the internet. Now, if we talk about the internet economy, we already have a little talk, but it will be the heart of the subject. And there are several questions that pose the question I don't know if you've ever seen this kind of cabinet like on the photo in Germany. All of this is regulated by the BNZR in Germany, the German control authority. It makes some obligations on the cables and on what kind of service should be able to access this kind of infrastructure. Well, the classic was that you were, the individuals were about 0.5 kilometers in so much access. 500 meters and so it was a little faster. But today, people want much more speed. So how do we do it? We have these these systems, these little equipment that are in the street. This is what we call bitstream. It becomes important with the operation of the vectoring. The fiber that you have there, it can not be used only by one operator this time. You have to put layer 3 on layer 3 is actually the IP, the internet layer. So you get a layer 2 connection there. And you have a connection on the second layer, not on the IP of the internet protocol. So all of this is public, you can keep on the site of regulation authority. All of this is public and you can see how much it costs to who. This is the price per month. By the way, these prices are all without vet, without MedVet steuer. So don't be surprised. There are differences later. This is the price of production without tax. You don't know if it's not the same price as on your factory. When you look on the right side, you can see that it's progressively and slowly. If this is the connection to the link and the price of the connection to the first node, it doesn't move much, but the price of the internet has gone down a lot. It's interesting to see that it's not necessarily correlated with the last one. In the streets, in this kind of cabin in the streets, at least 300 meters from your house. In the past, I talked about Bitstream. The key point here is the vectoring. This is what will allow to go to an interconnection point. This is where you will connect to this access point. How does a carrier pay for it? Nothing like a flat rate. Actually, you pay a base price and there's a little bit of traffic. And if you want more, you have the problem that you have to pay more for it. Later, I will have a way to show you this. This is how we are going to write it. And we see a contract extract with a mobile 5 megabits, with a bit of streaming. We see that the traffic is divided with a part on the streaming. And we also see that there are critical applications. The internet price is what it costs to be able to pay on the internet. The important part for us is the orange part. It's the part of the internet traffic. As you can see, it's really not much compared to other prices. The blue part is all the hidden prices. So, the provider you sell the traffic for about 60 euros. We see that according to the quality you ask you will have different prices. The base quality is three times more expensive than the access. It's 42 times more expensive than the access. No interest, we can see that there are big differences in quality and price. Of course, you pay for redundancy and reliability. So, content delivery. So, content delivery. Layer in a different way on the net. We can see that the different services were transported through different layers. So, I remember that IP is not just the internet, it's just the protocol. Then, what was it that came? To give you an idea, Call of Duty, the download of Call of Duty represents a lot compared to deliver movies to people. Send movies to people. For who is it important to have a very fast connection? So, we can see that half of the users leave when something takes more than 30 seconds to charge. I'm going through something because I'm running out of time. So, we're going to talk about internet neutrality. So, the definition of internet neutrality is that internet manufacturers deal with what they are going to do on the internet, deal with the content equally. In other words, there is no content to access your e-mails. It's the same priority than watching a movie. We don't prioritize it. We don't give the advantage to someone or to be trafficked compared to another. That's the net neutrality. So, for example, the regulations that cover the internet also cover net neutrality. We're going to talk about a package of bills for people who say we need a regulation there. This is a list of pros and cons. These are some of the arguments for the need for regulation on the internet. So, there are arguments for and against. For example, we need another internet to propose the equality of chances when the internet is neutral. The companies are competing equally. It's important to have a democratic internet. There is no technical discrimination. And some arguments against is that the internet changes quickly. The content is different. It's not really the same thing. For example, in Portugal, they don't have net neutrality. It's really scary because there, people don't pay for the internet. They pay for very special services. You pay, for example, to just have access to Facebook and Skype. You just have to pay to have access to YouTube and Netflix. Or you just have to pay to have access to Spotify, Google Play and SoundCloud. But you don't pay to have access to the internet. You only pay for very specific services. For example, I would say I would be scared. It scares me. I think I'm nearly at the end. It's going to be in the future. Almost in the next two years. The traffic continues to grow because of streaming. Netflix, for example, is 15% of international traffic. It's a huge number. About half of the internet traffic is encrypted, which is really a very good thing. It's important because it means that your traffic can't be inspected. People who will navigate your traffic will not be able to look at what you're going to navigate. It's important because it means that they can't factor you on the type of data that you're transferring. You really need to understand these actors who have a huge number on the internet in terms of transferring data. They also talk about world gardens closed communities. By closing the network, you can control the access and it can be used by certain operators to factor you on the access. This type of closed network can be seen on mobile networks. It's not a really good idea. Because it's a closed network, you have to pay for specific services. You don't have a global access to the internet. We also realize that more and more protocols are now transported via tunnels. We capture the traffic. More and more applications work directly on your computer. They work on servers and you access them through the internet and through your browser on the internet. To conclude, I think we really need to discuss more about the reality of the network. Originally, we built the internet as an exchange of ideas that gives access to information in a free and global way across the world. We should never forget that our responsibility here is to preserve this original internet. I think we'll come back to the conference to refresh your memory. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. It was fantastic. Let's move on to the question. Microphone number 2. Go ahead. I have a little question and a little more philosophical. The short one. Side number 60. You will show a few numbers about the QoS service quality. Where did you get those numbers from? What would you like to find on these numbers? Critical services or something like that. Are those real numbers? Are these numbers real? Where are they from? Where do they come from? I'll re-formulate your question which is a source of information for the information presented on the traffic. How can we see these numbers? It's hard to see. I have a calculation method but I couldn't show you what I don't have the time for. It uses an access number. I extract it. I use it with elements of data that we have on world traffic. It's a look and I definitely have to say that it's a ball. It's not an extremely precise method. Anyway, it's something completely secret. Even if I know, I can't tell you. You said that it's a closed garden. No, no, no. You got it wrong. I said, in some cases, if you have a chance, you can be happy in this kind of information. But from the point of view of the user of the internet, don't forget that we here represent 2% of people who use the internet. Think of your parents, your grandparents. They're normal users. This kind of information because they think it's a kind of golden prison. And they say, why am I changing? We tell them, it's not what it limits, but they don't understand that. My main question is that I feel that we should have important technological changes at the end of the year. Is IP really the right thing for the future? What can we add to the content? Do you see these picking up in the next... How do you see these paradigm changes? Do you think they will be adopted in the future? Yeah. So, I hope everybody has got this question. I hope everybody has got this question. I hope everybody has got this question. I see what you want to talk about. Do you talk about the interconnection of cloud history that uses their own connection mode? What really works, that's what's going to stay. I don't know where we are for the moment, but there are projects that Google started on the internet that they put in place, but it's going to be time-consuming for the future. It works with standard systems that we propose for commenters that are more or less adopted for the future. I want to see another question, but we can talk about it at the end of the conference. I would like to have a sarcasm here, but there was no time. Number one. I think one of the lessons for social movements that we had in Egypt was that it is very difficult to make a censorship on the internet. Do you think that the industry will work on a network that can really be cut? I would say yes, definitely. I think there are people who try to defend that. They say parallel networks parallel is a non-existent thing. You know, the internet has two tiers and the internet will be one tier. One for the business one for the users who pay one third, one fourth with less access where you can't even look at a Netflix movie. It could happen. I think it's one of the things that we have to worry about. To make sure that it doesn't happen. Okay, microphone number two. About the revenues used by internet users. Which used to be part of the state and used to own the network. I'm trying to rephrase your question. I'm trying to reformulate your question to see if I understand. You say that if we look at the access as we saw in the Schema all this infrastructure for the time was installed by the government and now it's being reimbursed with our taxes. Yes, I think it's problematic in a way. Say what can I say? The infrastructure is also a part where you have to manage the infrastructure. If you want that it works for more than 80% of the time and now it's the access funds that put this money there. So I imagine you could say that it's the one that should answer. It's true that it was already profitable before being privatized. It was already reimbursed before the private companies were charged. But there's a good reason for which they have the right to sell it. If they had used the infrastructure that we had 10 years ago we would have had a lot of trouble evolving on it. It wouldn't have been possible to have the companies in the street I was talking about earlier. So 10 years ago I would have agreed with you, it's not fair. Today I say that there's still a lot of financial investment so maybe it's normal to pay. The question is under what regulation? A question about over-the-top services in the summer. It's almost a political term and it's a trick that they try to do. I think I could pay for internet access and now that I paid I should have access to the internet because I paid for it. Maybe it's only at the best you pay maybe it should be a fixed price maybe maybe we should pay an equitable price by by by a traffic side, for example, Tiraocte Gigocte It's complicated to answer. The first thing is that the video streaming started at 2 Mbps and today we are at least 2 times more and in video 4k we will soon be at 10 Mbps. The problem is that the services on this top use the network in a way that has not been built. The protocol says that normally we have and that the network guarantees a traffic barrier but what happens today is that we have peak hours if you come Twitter which is 6 or 7 hours it's not the only thing and all of a sudden we have to build a lot of capacity to manage these flows and when everyone is going to sleep then the traffic almost goes zero and it takes you a long time to start it or it takes and progresses download more than 20 seconds it takes time to start the streaming like that as you have seen in the last shema 5 seconds most people turn off the stream after 5 seconds the customers not switching off the stream in 5 seconds so the service providers do not want to turn off the stream in 5 seconds if they have nothing and you have to be able to do that either in the middle of the night or in the beginning of the evening but it's peak of traffic it's very difficult to manage for the internet so the services on top it would work well if people did not connect at the same time but in fact everyone connects at the same time at 8.15 but we pay all for the transfer so I paid for this transfer and now you say that I can not access it but ok all the customers we pay for you can not pay for the peak of traffic that would be our whole conference but you are right you have a guarantee of passing but there is a difference between peak traffic and average traffic I do not have time to explain but I can discuss it here and there is no question for the internet OK still no questions on the internet for now OK one more question OK is there any role for public info there is a role for the information if you are really public can there be a public effort to cover for example the last mile no we are not soft it's not a for this problem in fact. Wait, someone wants to participate in the room. Hello, I work as an access officer for a small town. We work a lot with administrative services like Stuttgart and in the restaurants. If you look at the costs of building a local infrastructure, it's hard to make it public. Because every 30 years, we have to replace the infrastructure in the streets of the city. So it can be a good idea to do it once, once to do everything that is high, gas, electricity, internet, rather than doing work in the streets every three years. But the economic question there, it led us to do things in a way that is not bad or where we have to dig up in the streets to put our cables. Quite often. So we separated between the different parts of the infrastructure. In a regulatory structure, it's what we are given by the control authority, but it's not very useful. But if you try to put it back politically, it's very difficult. Because a lot of people say it's impossible to do that. Do we have to talk about this? Thank you very much for this intervention. I am aware of this approach. I know that in Berlin or Amsterdam, a part of the infrastructure, for example, is public. But it doesn't work anymore. It's a project that doesn't work anymore. Thank you all for being here this early. Thank you very much everyone for coming early this morning.