 What up? What up? What up? I'm Brandman Sean and I'm Kory and we are back with episode number 34 of No Labels Necessary Podcasts. We in here yet again every Tuesday every Thursday Whatever you stream podcast YouTube Spotify Apple music audio Mac action. We now audio Mac. Somebody asked and I don't think we are No, we're not But we gonna get there right we are gonna get there now as y'all know every single episode we like to start off with a little advice and This one has to do with money How should you take your money? And I feel like the advice is always Said in this way straightforward. It's common to hear But I got a little bit of pushback, right? So how should you take money when you're doing your deals? We're gonna start with a legend Not other than magic Johnson sir go ahead talk that talk I am one in the national championship and three companies came in Converse Adidas and Nike Nike was just a year too old Converse offer me the most money. So, you know, we you broke you state the money Phil Knight came in said Hey, I can't offer you same type of money, but I could offer you stop Oh We're trying to hear that being I wasn't trying and I didn't know about it and my family didn't come from money See, that's one thing that hurt us sometime when you don't come from money You don't know. I didn't even know what stocks was at that time. So I passed on the stocks Can you imagine 45 years five billion dollars of stock would have been worth today Well, let me say this when you don't know something that's okay is when you know and then you may need stay I'm a person who live in a moment and if something happened to me that wasn't good I leave it in the past and I keep moving forward. That's who I am. Oh Man, man. Oh, oh man five billion Now it's so much and I feel like a lot of people are here. It isn't like man Yeah, you know equity over money straight up But it's so many layers to this clip that I think about when I when I hear it man Oh so number one Shout out of magic cuz he always just got that. They're old like now that oh like alcohol is Future vibes and it was saying they doesn't live in the past Like that's something that we got to accept first like when it comes to these deals I feel like a lot of people they start chasing bad decisions and then mess up their future decisions because it's so cut and About these bads about those bad decisions of the past But you can't like think about every deal that you didn't win. Yeah, like you said it was a learning lesson I ain't no learning lesson. I didn't know right now That's a big big loss in comparison because he probably has some, you know, one million dollar losses five million dollars He has a cave. Yeah, but that's that's a big loss But but it's also a loss you don't realize until later. That's the thing So it didn't probably didn't hurt as much as well because he's still successful too. All right He's worth hundreds of millions. He just not worth five million. That's that's the money. There's different money So with that being said though, I Think that what he said like my family didn't come from money He used it for standpoint. He used it to make a point in terms of not knowing What the right decision would have been in that moment, right? But I think another thing to consider that a lot of people don't touch on in these moments When you don't come from money sometimes You're in situations where you still don't have money and You make a decision based off of what you need at the moment. Yeah Mike him I don't know. He's probably doing well off in general and probably could have waited But then there's some of those situations where I know you and me now I'm not talking about a five million dollar lot billion dollar loss a big deal like that where there's been times Coming up where I'm like, that's probably a better long term But based on Let's say looking right in the way shit looking right now Right. I'm gonna have to make the right now decision now again That equation changes time to time, right? Let's just say oh, it's gonna look like five billion I'm gonna just have to figure out how to make it through right now. However. I'll make it through right That's a huge. That's a way bigger bigger gap But I'm like if we're talking about being a thousand up versus 300 right now, and it's like a one-off thing it when I was in certain places in life And it made sense, right? So I think there's that equation that people don't all they don't always acknowledge where yes, we of course, we know one I got to take some Making taking the back-end equity is a great concept, right? but two If you're dealing with your real life, and there's still a risk of that thing not working out Then maybe you have to make that decision based on real life because it's not a guarantee that Nike would have got To the valuation that it would have got to today, right through so how do you analyze the situation? And I feel like a lot of times people Just give that general advice of oh, yeah, you want to have a piece of the back-end without Helping people understand that you do that in areas that you understand It's a lot easier to do that in areas that you understand at least right and if you don't understand It's really hard to make that decision because there's some companies that I've had opportunities to make investment decisions on I just like put a little money in right and I Didn't make any investment and then I had some that I did and I've had some succeed or fail And I knew and I knew nothing about it and I stopped doing that shit, right? It's like all right cool. You need to stop doing that shit and now typically only invest in shit that I really get right and You know when I get it already know what this is gonna do Of course, there's not a guaranteed win out of it, but I understand so much about it The chances are That I'll probably win like the platform. I don't want to mention the platform right now in terms of investment But I did go ahead and put some money into the platform, right? Yeah, so Why because I come from tech and understanding a lot of different nuances And what it would take to succeed in that particular platform space Obviously got a chance. It's been quite a bit of time with the actual founder. That's another part of it All right, you can't just be the idea Who's the person behind it because a bad person can mess up a great idea All right, and a great person can take a bad idea and flip it into something All right make it work, right? So I'm like, oh, this is the right idea the right timing right founder And the way the money the founders life is set up He already got money to where he ain't even trying to make bad decisions He's literally doing this for the bigger vision so easy for me to make You know not all my money I ain't have a lot of money to throw out in that particular situation Where as much as I wanted to but I made a little investment at it, right easy because I understood it through and through Saying that you should always take that back here I don't know. There's a lot of stuff where Honestly, it's like ah for me If it's not my space I kind of let those opportunities go to a lot of other people Yeah, but I mean I I think you just kind of touched on the the bigger part of it though When your situation is usually it comes down to like how much do you believe in the company if you're supposed to take that risk Right, right because I'm sure in that same scenario if it was someone where if you had met the founder Hurdy, I didn't you didn't believe in as much like I was like, no, I'm keeping keeping this money, right? No, it's a lot hundred percent. I'm saying shut down bad guys. You know what I'm saying? But you know, I can hold on this money from that. This opportunity is going to be so I think that's the hard part to consider because I think all that we mentioned about this situation specifically is like Nike was like a new company Or it was Taylor newer But it was like no pretty pretty baby issue that time So baby they don't have the proven track record of somebody like a commerce So like I don't think those type of brands like that. So I'm sure magic is looking like man. Do I want to Take this equity in this company that you know, there are still giants in the marketplace that it's not competing with yet To your point, he didn't have the foresight to know that Nike would be Nike today. Nobody did right, but once again that comes back to Faith in the vision of the company. Yep, right. Do you believe that this company will go where they say they're going to go? If You think so a lot you genuinely see it. That's like, hey, man, you know get investment for you You feel like you got that eagle eye to say it's Right, that's what you don't you don't believe in values of the company or even know like I'm willing to think it's a treasure Hey, man, I feel like there's another power player. I want to get a better way. I really believe in them more now You that's another thing. Yeah, this stuff is still risk assessment gambles Because dealings. Yeah, how many? billionaire vc firms Have turned down other companies that became billion dollar companies But they did it so they can invest in another company and maybe that company took a L Or that company was also a successful company. So it's like I'm good, you know See that that part I only like to stress that part of that advice just because It's always nuance to this stuff and people focus on This great advice that wasn't popular advice at one time because people didn't know to think about equity but now it's so far on that side of things people only think about equity and There's ways to think about equity like How do you judge if the company if equity in this company is worth it in general the size of the of the market The people involved in it And then of course what else is set up set up in your life And I really feel the responsibility to say this because of the jay-z conversations The jay-z or the meeting for y'all who don't know or remember We had we talked about that whole viral conversation. Would you take $500,000 in cash or a meeting with jay-z? Right? Yeah, and What was a popular Sentiment made people went with straight up 500k. Oh somebody's not worth it But then you had a lot of business people that were saying no man You take that meeting All right, because you can flip that meeting into one thing after another thing after another thing and are your leisure Shout out to them. They talked about a very real situation where they Met I think it was steve harvey and steve harvey met him Introduced him to robert s 5th who was building there and got him in with tola perry and all these different things snowball from that And they're doing real things and steve harvey end up investing in them now. What's the difference though? They had something to invest in they had a specific vision that they were working on so Like I know we were like take the meeting with jay-z in general But if in general you don't have any vision you just like Kind of moving around. You don't know what you want to do then Nah, you probably should take that 500k because jay-z wouldn't know what to invest in or like Not even invest like literally but invest the time of the conversation There's no specific value because you can't just go other people and like say, all right What should I do with my life? Right or give me some advice like help me? Yeah, help me like that doesn't really come Turn into anything real it was why so early on my freshman In college I was around quite a few billionaires and I didn't ever Leverage a lot of my opportunity in that space. I had no idea what the fuck I wanted to do and The way I saw it was I'm not about to Like say hey, give me this For me to work on something and then also I don't know I actually like turn around five months later and they're like damn shan just stopped I done invested all my time now. I wasn't like super first person first hand with those billionaires I was in the vicinity had I talked mainly with the millionaires But we were all in the space constantly and had some conversation with the billionaires or whatever But like the point was Any of the people in the room I didn't want to Waste their time let's put it that way, right? It's like, oh you your homie be like, oh man Can you teach me some digital marketing and then you take all your hard time You teach your digital marketing three months later. He's like, oh, yeah, man Actually, um, I want to be a dentist or something like that. You know, man Like you said that like that mother. I know bro. I have some stories, bro Well, I charge people for the game. No, no So you need to go and get your CDLs and Barbara likes to stop it. Exactly. But hey for real So that was that's my mentality But that's also A position where you might want to just go ahead and take that 500k Especially just for one media. So you bring that back to the equity conversation And when magic's talking about like again, it's not just equity in general because there's also a risk assessment and something might not be successful But when you do know something and you understand that space which probably encourages you to like say Hey, you need to start understanding these spaces and things you're investing in You might have more of a you you'll have a better judgment on if the chance of being successful is high If it's not super successful Do you still win something? All right, and it was a failure. Also, can you deal with a failure? Right magic? You know, this has leeway. He had some leeway. He had a lot of leeway This is like that monday morning core quarterback and games over and i'm just Speculating playing from the sidelines. I don't know magic. You already had some money. You know, man I think he owns some radio stations by this time uh And He would have been the power of the endorsement, right? So he it would have been on and leaned around him. I don't know man. That might have been Look bad. Yeah, you know, it was it was a little bad job But that's like me saying from from the future I do think it could have been successful the before we get into the other topics though The one interesting note. I think someone in the comments said was This would have changed the trajectory of the history of nike because they probably wouldn't have invested in jordan If they had my magic they were already at a superstar. They would have already had a superstar and they were just trying to get in the game They were like, hey, how can I make this shit shake? So and and they definitely wouldn't have been given jordan equity like that Because they already had equity here and magic. So I don't know that definitely would have changed things maybe nike wouldn't have become nike because Like five billion. Oh jordan is a significant part of what launched nike to the next level. Yeah, like jordan is literally Yes, I wouldn't I'll say so so the rest of this later after the fact But but they were able to utilize jordan not just for jordan himself But the brand equity they got from their association with jordan, which is why I think he Was able to get such a big deal like so now you got all this other All these other revenue streams tied to jordan That jordan has no participation in yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so Like jordan was worth a lot to them and I actually read feeling like his book. I feel like he didn't he Like skipped over jordan. He didn't touch on him enough because he was like probably Little ego like a man. I don't want people thinking that he built this shit. I built this shit That's what I felt bro. It was like my bad y'all you gotta acknowledge how big it was a great book Do it through a lot. Of course you pay integral, but he ain't really like for Like at all, he really didn't mention jordan, which was crazy to me. You talk about the whole nike history Not trash, but you know, it is what it is. Anyway In other news Is the united states making worse music than everybody else in the world? I want y'all to watch this clip and tell me what you think the definitive thing that makes you a star in my opinion Well, I think so Is A song That i'm making songs that are going to cross them over and make them Who they're supposed to be? I feel like okay cool. We like their vibe. We like their mix tape We like the album like you know i'm saying like it's some it's some hints of greatness in there But when you talk about stars like when 50 cent put out, um in the club. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right Like you just need those songs and the songs have to be produced and made if we isolate central sea It's not america No Well, he's probably a star already in london. Oh, he's super star. So what you're saying is happening It just doesn't seem to be happening domestically right now because we're making the worst music Whoa, damn just as it's back. Oh, yeah, the united states is making the worst music jacore, do you think the united states is making the worst music? The worst the worst music i don't know if i can say the worst man because i mean i don't want to sing away any particular region of the world out You know And it'll tag anybody's quality music, but Attack man, i'm not super deep like the only countries are super pet attention While super pet attention to that music industry is like, you know us, of course Latin latin american countries, you know couple like South african countries like in the afro world But that ties into my music touch. You know what i'm saying? Like i'm not looking at Let's say like russia's music scene for example because what i've typically heard from there in the past is saying ain't my cup of tea Maybe they got something along my my line of my lane that would change my mind But from where it usually makes it out of there where it represents them. It's like that's not really my thing All right, but the worst music run now we we I can't say that because it's still too many other countries that emulate like our music style. Okay. Okay, but you can emulate and improve You're right. That's true. All right, true. I'll say this Latin america united states Korea tokyo And then a few countries in europe i listened to and I feel like in other countries there seems to be Almost a retro Approach to the music and i mean a retro united states like you say yeah, like we're still leading a lot of the culture in that way but You know how a lot of people say oh, it's not like it used to be and they act like What it used to be was better. Yeah, especially like let's just look at kpop. Let's Center on kpop the investment into the music videos and what they have at the top and they're really showing Is it's like 90s in terms of music video investment Dance routines all that stuff going on and I remember from the very moment. I like found out about it my home girl uh, polina She put me on to kpop in maybe 2012 11 and i was just like, bro This is I can't understand a thing, but I resonated with a lot of it because it just it just felt like What maybe early 2000s What was popular over here a lot of it like you can see them emulating or whatever so there's some argument in in terms of maybe that the approach to artistry and The approach to artistry without the viral virality that we need in america because america Is very The shit that we talk about Right, it's very much so focus on these narratives marketing Going viral trying to stand out and get attention for the sake of attention in hopes to flip it back to your music All right So I can argue that that environment probably doesn't foster the best music As an environment that's still more music driven first With of course the bells and whistle because it's still entertainment just like it used to be but it's not really caught up in this Let me go smash a t.v. Right to get some attention. Let me go uh Drive through the mall on a motorcycle to get some attention to shit samson was the other day What's uh that group name things or i remember i forgot his name or whatever and i don't think anything wrong with it I thought like the way out they put it together. It's dope. But we're in the space of america where we have to do Shit like that a lot of times to get attention which sucks Yeah, I mean I think because I think our thing as a country is cheap entertainment You know what i'm saying like how can we how can we strike the biggest flying with the least amount of matches? Pretty much right in terms of production quality. Yeah, right. You know what i'm saying? We sit in the music and we've seen hit songs come out that were made in closets Yeah, i'm saying the back of vans and shit like that but then even um like tv man, you see like networks like netflix and hulu and stuff I always try to figure it out right. How can we get this hit tv show with the smallest budget possible? We had to come to my toddler period, but it was toddler period the whole form How can I get the most amount of hit movie for the least amount of money as fast as possible? so Yeah, I do think I I couldn't say like why a part of me wants to say it's probably because we're such a capitalistic You know i'm saying capitalism based country as a part of it Probably yeah, probably honestly that probably is it that probably is exactly what it is. So I I do think We're starting to like notice that I see coming into the music But I still don't think that makes us the worst doesn't seem to be the worst I can't I can't boldly say the worst and count why I could boldly say I could say anything bold but I can't confidently And fully authentically and truthfully say it's the worst and mean it because I don't listen to every single country every type of music but What I can't say is the environment today Does not necessarily lean towards the most positive environment. Yeah foster good music. Well, like we the country that made like Reality tv. I don't know if we made it popular But I feel like I don't feel like any other country that had a reality tv run like the u.s. Is that i'm saying Yeah, and you think about a lot of the know what? Why? I mean he started to talk about it. Oh Oh the capital the capital is the best shit cheap. We don't gotta have no real actors People who spend time and build a craft they want more money So we gonna have some regular people we can flip this attention. You've already built in something else Let this market as a opp so you get paid a little bit But you can flip it into your branding and we can churn these out like clockwork Yeah, so I was like, but you have this whole generation are as I grew up on like that. Yeah that And then you introduced the internet and memes and things like that like reality tv And me you go hand in hand, but they're both cheap forms of mass and it's like guilty pleasure content The guilty pleasure is not supposed to be your main pleasure. That's the problem. I mean, but why should it work in? You know what I'm saying? I think a lot of the things that I think other people going to plan about with music Was started by rappers, but with rappers it makes sense. I think you know what I'm saying because I rap We're typically used to being like It's Not lower said me No, you said rappers. We're used to you still got some hidden tracks. No, no, no, no. I'm saying like I think Oh, I get you You're hilarious But I'm saying like like we as I'm used to We'll buy all these cheap thing of things sometimes I think it's tied back to what we typically see rappers do but like rappers Are still not being competed with when it comes to like that type of like social manipulation And foreign like memes and like cheap comedy stuff. Yeah, so but I think a lot of that being a lot of that makes sense for the genre because that genre typically Requires, you know, not not a lot of work, but like less work in some instances compared to like other types of music Um Rappers typically been super appealing to people that come from a lower income area So these are people we don't have any money, right? How do they figure out how to you know? You a artist in the backfuck of nowhere with no money You're trying to get lit like what you're gonna do what's gonna get you attention? Oh, man, if I do some stupid shit, you know what I'm saying? That's not even let's just take it away from stupid Let's not let's not imagine where let's just say like be stupid. Yeah. Yeah, let's just say something that's meant That's I did on my phone that was meant to grab a lot of attention. Yes, man Let's keep it at that. Yep. Good bad. Have you want to feel about it? Then that's what I'm gonna do. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna lean more into that because I'm going to feel like Yo, when I put my investment into this thing I put all these hours into this thing over here, which we can say is the music quality Doesn't necessarily give me the return. I want to see but I go put Half of that's common to figuring this thing out this attention thing And everything I want starts to happen, right people hitting me up and we have fans and we have listeners So you you can't you can't knock the way that people have been trying to think about how they should put their stuff I'm not knocking it. I'm just observing it. Oh At the end of the day It's been interesting to see that Not only have we not Not only do we not lead culture as much as we used to We copy culture, right? I remember when anime start Seeping into all of our shit. All right now. It's a huge driver. Yeah, right before it was this type of content that we experienced that was foreign, right? But from that It actually was like a virus. It's like, oh man, we're gonna give them some of this sauce and eventually the future generations They gonna love that shit, right? We we forming and we taking over the whole country one kid at a time And now our stuff a lot of our stuff is inspired by anime, right whatever and in the entire I don't want to say tired Japanese experience, but so many of the things that originated in Japan Right, um like fashion All right, so even beyond anime because they hit us from no two directions, right? Yeah, I remember even a Harajuku girls even though that became a whole polarizing thing at one point or whatever um If even recently apparently when I said that she was Japanese and it became a thing Right for her. Yeah, she said she was Japanese I don't want to get too far into it, but it was just one of those things getting too comfortable You know, they come into the house eat all the food and then You know, all of a sudden they think you want to why they know they feed up on you Yeah, yeah, it was just one of those things. She really didn't mean nothing about like bad bye, but she may have messed up, you know, um Um She thought she was so one with the culture. She just said i'm Japanese That's really what she was all about. Yeah, that's where she was coming from, but You know the internet and people sensitive these days to that kind of stuff. So Like but with that same concept though, bro, like I I think it's hard to fight the idea that music specifically music for the sake of music is Not what it used to be in terms of the nuances In terms of quality and I think other spaces are behind and because they're behind they might There might be more attention to music, but I think they're going to end up where we are I don't think they're like guarding it. Yeah, right. You're saying we want to stay here. They're just behind. That's all it is Yeah, they're paying attention to and then in some countries probably So many interesting things going on with that music industry, you know, like some countries government has been involved in higher degrees Exactly and like some countries corporations being involved to higher degrees or higher or lesser degrees So it's so many different variables and goals and two things like that But yeah, because they're all going to eventually look and go like oh america has figured out this whole like cheap attention Shit and say like we want in on that. Yeah. Hey K-pop artists. I need y'all start making some viral videos You know what I mean y'all they know make some memes and things like that So I think the influence is gonna hit But now I do kind of maybe want to backtrack a little bit because as you were talking I was trying to run through my head Like who's a who's kind of like dumb man right now and like Why are the artists are like foreign artists, bro? They're not foreign to us in the States Central Sea, Tams Up now bad buddy. You know I'm saying who I feel like I miss this because oh We actually missed the cut that part of the conversation because they did say Superstars. Yeah superstar. Yeah. Are we producing new superstars? Like who's new because I think our current superstars are still the old one Right like the Tesla Swiss the Beyonce is the Justin Bieber. I'm Justin Bieber. Yeah, not he old, but even count Oh, oh, dang. We can't fully claim Justin. Exactly. Hey, but I mean, but he you know, he was in LL Well, yeah, yeah, he counts. We vote But yeah, I can't think of like who's the most recent new superstar that the us has produced party me So then Lil Nas X Lil Nas, that's probably after Kirby. Well, I guess it's a little not like the superstar We I will say Lil Nas X superstar I think So, I don't know because I maybe I wonder how we judge it. Like are we talking about worldwide? I don't know where his reach is because I know his streams Yeah, right are like superstar streams and a demographic that he has a hold on is like superstar Like but I don't know because I because I really say Cardi B But I'll say it with full confidence because I think Cardi B's She should be like superstar level technically, right? But then when you mention Beyonce, right? That's a different level Yeah, right So but then, you know essential sees too new To like fully put him there But I think well, I don't know how big he is and of course UK, you know, he's big But I don't truly have a full sense of his level bad buddy I got a sense of his level like oh, he's pretty much on Beyonce's level. Don't kill me, you know Also, who feels certain way? I'm just talking about sheerly in terms of numbers He's early on so he has a lot to do but he's going to be on that trajectory where 10 20 years from now He's still I have a strong resounding impact. Right and he's on A lot of people that are outside that primary demographic. So when I try to separate and even say Cardi B Those again, maybe No, I don't know. Yeah, I can't give you the Cardi B. Can we give it a that's what I'm saying Like we know their personalities can definitely transcend. I think they have the talent to um, and even don't doge a cat like the more stereotypical markability attached to her but I don't know man like I don't know. He might be right. That's what I can't think of no other. I'm trying bro Like y'all these might in the comments. I'm trying who's the last superstar because all right. How do we defy a superstar one thing that I think would go with the term superstar is when you have So many people outside of the primary demographic that know the person Yeah, all right You reach the top of your niche broken past that niche and now you're in pop But then beyond pop right now just successful pop, but you're beyond pop and you're transcending Like that popular culture where grandma all the way down to the kid knows Your country and other countries Like know this person. That's a a different space well, I guess what could also change the argument a little bit is that's what we're talking about Song not necessarily like personality right like brand and that's yes, so that doesn't make it harder It does come with a little bit because then it's like what's the last massive song to come from a Steve Lacey maybe like the best song See now, I mean we just extract the music which look this is music so Is it doesn't hurt to just say If I don't even consider that by moving in both goal posts All right, because we're talking about music at the core. We're talking about artists 30 million so bad habit has 611 million streams I was like what makes me say that is because justice specifically mentioned central c is like a london you get a london artist But then to your point is like yeah, he's big but he's not like Beyonce right like right the different level. So now this is my okay We're keeping it just usually like this, but he's gonna get there. I think he's gonna get that right Yeah, yeah, see you're gonna be solid if he doesn't have any Monthly listeners at Steve Lacey right now. I'm gonna say enough. Yeah, he's about a million less but Central C's a lot hotter obviously from a commercial standpoint. That's the weird thing because superstar Superstar is not a solely music thing I know that he said we gotta have the music and of course But you superstar is a combination of the music with The personality or aura and all of that stuff like there's been people who was the there's this guy named nick kurios He plays tennis right this dude if He well, he actually has the talent to be like number one in the world But he has like just other issues anger issues and things like that But even earth blur. Yeah, but it's oh, he's interesting. He's hard, bro He's like he got like a hip-hop like basketball Swagger, but he plays tennis. It's it's interesting Um, and he'll take these long breaks like literally his thing is like, oh, yeah I played tennis like three months out the year while, you know, opposite It's like Kobe mentality. I always practice and that's what most people are doing So he's not ranked where he should but the point is even if he just a consistent His brand if you watch him next to the other players He could be a superstar just you just see that he has that it factor, right? Um So you don't even have to be the best Right, which I think about music You don't have to be the best to be the biggest superstar people always get mad Oh, this person isn't even as good as that person Well, that's when they go and get into that it factor lane or this person doesn't sing as good There's other factors into creating superstar. You know, it's building a player and there's multiple rankings, right? What is your your vocal talent? What is your talent for hearing production your song selection your personality? your I don't know. Right. There's there's multiple levels Or multiple things to gauge. I don't know all of them Maybe we should build a superstar one day and figure out with all those gauges where that would be hard You know, I mean a some of y'all make our lives easier if y'all got time put in the comments and we can maybe argue about Which all things makes a superstar what are all those gauges to consider but But it's not it's not fully a music conversation. But of course he does go back to music. So to me is It's technically inconclusive But I do go back to the argument that America right now Actually, uh, I'll say that later the United States right now Does not have an environment that fosters the best of music a lot of creativity in general But the best music that it can specifically now why I pause for a second was because I said America and I realized man I say America a lot But that's like that entitled like better than American mentality United States mentality because it's like a Central American American Canada's in over there. I've no idea if you're in the comments, but I want to just say the United States Just say United States. Let me add to life Man, that's stressful over here, man. I don't know a lot of artists over here doing it. Hey, no, no it is It's it's different man. It's definitely different. But with that being said, man Let's get into a very similar conversation along these lines Central C speaking of him Is central C an industry plant? uh What do you think jacquard? You don't think it's an industry plant? My boy, no industry plant. All right now I'm not even gonna get into the deep idea What technically is an industry player not well, I probably will at some point But the way the reason this topic was inspired was because there was a tiktok video I put it up on the screen and we can't actually play it because Tiktok, you know, you too That copyright that copyright strike. We're not trying to get that. We'll we'll play it on the screen Y'all could just watch it move as we talk about what happened on nothing wrong You'll they by seeing the x next to the video. All right exactly. So central C Is actually signed to ADA right now Their whole conversation again went to know well people kind of say he's independent But he signed to something. Well, he's not signed to to warner or any major directly ADA is a distributor up under warner though. Yeah, all right And to me this actually just speaks to the reality of music today. All right because the reality of music today is yo The distributors are record labels But they're better Position record labels, right? They're better positioned because of the brand and you can put on it Oh artists you get a better deal Then you normally would but it's also better positioned because I could invite you in without having to take the same level of risk And then I could just cherry pick the people You know, I mean that that looked like they're gonna be a little bit more successful And then build a relationship with them right now Him being signed to a distributor Of course, he does still control more things But I think that's just the nature of the game today and independent Almost should be washed away or we should clearly define independent because To me it's so much marketing language Versus the reality of what this is. I don't think independent means today What people originally meant when they say independent Like it literally means today independent of a major independent of a major label But there's a billion other entities out there That you can be in partnership with and you are still signed to them, right? Even labels if you're signed to a major It could be the same deal And they just call it A partnership Why because that shit sounds better on paper is better for your ego But the numbers work out the same if I just signed you right all of this stuff I don't I don't really Buy into it, but Essentially being independent. Is he technically independent? Sure. Let's let's stick with that. All right. He has a distributor Of course, he has an infrastructure management team in their building and they're doing a hell of a job All right, I don't think technically independent or not matters outside of the narrative that people want to push to inspire the indies or To keep the indies trapped in depending on which side you on right? Yeah, I mean and I think that's what comes out too mad Like we on the other side of it of the the the indie artists, you know propaganda push, you know, I'm sorry Like we've been strong components of it, you know, like we've been pushing the narrative for Yeah, last couple years. We benefit from it. And yeah, I think that's just how a lot of these music companies look at the bro like hey the Because what independent The the bigger the independent artist community grows the bigger the independent labor community grows, right? There can be more distribution companies. There can be more Marketers like us, right? There can be more Publishers and these different people So, yeah, we got to sprinkle it on a couple of things make it look sexy to Keep people wanting to stay in that space because once again, like I said, I look at indies now as independent of a major label, right? Not even just from an artistic standpoint But just from a resource standpoint, right? Like I'm able to go and get these things despite you, right? Yeah, what you have control of and what you can make happen with what's your thing Which is a good thing for the market overall But I still see it that way, bro It's like literally like hey like we have to keep doing things and saying things and putting this label on Certain people that encourages the community to look at it that way because of it benefits everybody Like I said, I don't think that's a bad thing. But that's just reality, you know Like I'm I'm I'm stringing the the indie artist narrative for as long as it can go because if it wasn't for indie artists Well, we have an agency, you know what I'm saying? Will we be making this channel if every artist was tied to that type of institution and couldn't We'll probably we found a way but yeah, we will be with The labels might we will contract through them a lot more. Yeah, a lot more. Yeah, exactly But you already know what yeah, well try to try to keep away from them as much as possible but it makes it easier for us to do that because of the Indie yeah history any market boys. Yeah, so I think like yeah, you're gonna have these really blurry situations where like you said the the narrative is a lot stronger. Hey, he's independent so He must be doing all this by himself and XYZ and like oh, we want to support him because he's the underdog competing against This majoleta act and you looking at like man, bro He got more we're not him specifically but that particular artist got more resources Maybe even more attention and more hands-on than that major level to look at that So we get to the point right there. Yeah, because because to be a superstar On a sit in a situation like that, you're not gonna get treated any differently than a Major act on a major level back on there. You are the major act there where you getting that same treatment Anything you want even if you're south side of the parameters of what that company typically does I've seen it I've seen it for certain clients where it's like, hey, we don't usually do this So yo, shit is going so well over here with this person that we gonna do whatever we need to do to make this happen for him And in that situation, what's the difference between the label? You know what I'm saying? The company that Only promise you distribution for 10 20 percent is now willing to get you investment and that wouldn't get you certain looks Now will never have you got your team your infrastructure and all these other things like what's the difference at that point? You know what I'm saying? I So independence me man, me There's independent of major label. There's always say which I think yes I think we should stand on that definition because that will make the conversation a little bit A little bit more tepid. You know what I'm saying? Like this conversation gets hot because people People feel a certain way about it, bro. Are there any people who are gonna see this? They're like, oh central city isn't any because you got a Distribution company helping you and it's like you're not wrong and you're not right Like what about all the other things you have to go figure out? I'm saying like these one entities don't necessarily become the The the most like they're not always the most like game-changing elements of everything Sometimes they're stepping stone to help you put together the different components that you need to put together that make The game-changing situation where you write like that situation. I mean like I said, I don't know just speculate here but let's just say that's the situation that Allow him to Make money that didn't go pay like his content team or something right and then that's the situation In those those content pieces popped him off on tiktok or something like that Right, it's like it becomes more about like the pieces of the the big picture That leads to the success rather than like all you just have this big corporation behind you because We've seen it that that doesn't always mean anything right You can be tied to some of the biggest entities of music and nothing happened playing artists of field that have so many not being quote-unquote independent, but I think I personally just want to Encourage artists to understand business and do good business. Yeah, because the independent conversation is Even a distraction and of sorts to me All right, all of these things that you can see all these things that you see get pushed a lot Let you know that there's some agendas behind it It's always marketing like oh man, everybody's indie indie indie indie. Why do I see this so much? Because it's speaking to a certain message and it's encouraging a certain Marketplace to flourish that I can capitalize off of that simple Exactly, bro. You gotta always look at pushing it. Like I said, not until a battery like I was willing to admit that hey we pushing it because It's much easier doing business with the indie artist and it's doing you know what I'm saying business with a major I want more indie artists to be have major level budget so we can you know what I'm saying move to that problem Yeah Definitely that I just think there people get so caught up in this language stuff versus the actual mechanics behind it all Like what's actually happening make sure something different is occurring because if you're in a old school bad deal But you use the language independent and the label that's working with you says. Yeah, you're independent Why does it matter? All right, because you're still in that bad deal. All right if you're in a good deal And people think you're signed Why does that matter? Right outside of pushing the marketing message and then saying I want to brand around independence Like chance rapper did heavily and that but you know, that becomes something that you can capitalize off of so you have this Reason and agenda right to make sure people see it in that way, right? So I don't know for me. I think that when we get into the indie shit and the way people talk about it It's really based off of old indie, which is why it's best to differentiate specifically like you said Independent of a major label. All right, not independent of help. All right, and we get into DIY Do it yourself. No, you not do it all yourself, right? You have to go into partnerships in this music industry in some form of fashion Some piece of the pie you're not going to have the entire vertical yourself Even if you have a marketing team a content team um By pr team and all that stuff you might get to a label I mean a level like let's just say you're on bias Save level you can create your own distribution company and all that stuff. So you're earning owning that entire vertical But even though There still have to be partnerships To get on these Spotify playlist or whatever, right or in deal with those people to Work with let's say live nation There's always going to be some type of partnership that comes in the space in music and the entertainment industry the way it is built out It's kind of just has to be So if anything let the idea of independent me more so just understand the business understand what You are I don't even want to say what you were because people take that and they ride with it and it'd be the wrong number But understand like what leverage looks like In the business, you know, I'm saying and also make sure that you get as much Of an entrepreneurial spirit that makes sense for you All right So you might want to build heavily in all the whole thing But there's some people who don't want to even work like that Right and own the system and have all that rely on them and that's fine And they both could make a lot of money All right, but Is centrally independent by the ignorant indies opinion no by An experienced old school label perspective know as well by someone in the middle If someone in the middle who's more moving in this new space Yes, he's indy in terms of independent of a major label, but you'll hear the old folks like they're like, oh no because this is exactly the same shit so you know I remember when chance was like oh indy indy He didn't have the deal but all the people knew the business. They were like What are you? What is he talking about? This is the exact same shit You can't get here without this type of partnership this type of partnership. Yeah, he doesn't have a major label but literally It's the same thing in a different house. All right, so You know, I may same meal with all the no, let's say different plate on the fixings So y'all take that as y'all with them, man You want to be you want to make indy a part of your brand you care. Just make sure your business is right and you can sleep at night Let's go with that one No, if you're using that for marketing Or you you truly trying to do it Yeah, yeah All the way I don't think y'all want to see what it's like all the way all this is stressful all the way That's a lot of a lot of early gray hairs. You know what I'm saying a lot of No four hour sleep nights. Right, right. No four hour work week Four hour sleep night Now with that being said also same conversation similar conversation. Can you be as big as drake As an independent artist. LaRussell has an opinion You know, we're gonna talk use going label mean is and I used to ask them Do you think it's possible to be as big as drake as an indy? And we used to get a lot of doubt and in like, I don't know you'd have to go through this this through this system And it's like if I got here Independently I can only get bigger, you know, I know what I did to get here So if I do a times 10 that means I'm gonna get a 10 thighs multiple in my growth If I do that times 100 I'm gonna get a hundred times multiple. So yeah, I definitely believe so. I mean, I'm here And I'm completely independent you feel me on this platform Most of the people who come on here have a label behind them It's part of their pr roll out the press, but we don't have a label behind it. I got some thoughts on this And I don't think you can be as big as drake independent in today's climate In today's climate, but that's also because We see independent differently Right partnerships, et cetera independent of a major label and be pretty damn big I think that's only gonna grow. You're gonna be able to get bigger and bigger independent of a traditional major label, right? cool but if we're talking about the nuances of The relationships and things that have to be in place the type of partnerships that ultimately are going to have to be in place You're still Going to need to To move in a very very similar fashion You'll just own a lot more than a drake does of his own vertical. You might have that team of again content Your own distribution or something somehow whatever that might look like, but I don't think You can be that big I'll get into some of the nuances why and say if I want to hear what you think before I go deeper I think Somebody will be eventually. I don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon because that's it today's climate That's what I said. Yeah. All right. Yeah, because it's like we're just now starting to see the effects of people what rest start prisoner independent things were like 17 maybe 18 Yeah, right. Yeah, right. So we're now starting to see the offspring of the people who were listening to having paid attention right all those kids and younger artists that Care another pair attention to rest. They're all you know now adults now now further along in their careers And we're starting to see a lot of them move and take this the type of stuff seriously You're gonna make rest the line in the stand br and ar I think Who else could it be? I don't know. I don't have a specific line I just I just thought that he was we're getting out the independent conversation. That's all I feel like Mainstream for a lot of music artists because now 100% Yeah, he was a he was the first one to like make it tangible right like I'm gonna show you tunechord statement So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about this and I'm gonna show you the example of this generation for sure and He he set the tone in a different way. Yeah on a on a whole another level and he made a point I'm making that sign. I'm not taking that from I just wanted to see what your thoughts were You know gotta gotta throw something. I get it man. I don't look man. Look, I give it a rust on that man because he made that I think there were people who talked about it But it always sounded like really like corporate you really stuff He like it was different like like that watching like rust on like an instagram live stream But oh, yeah, I'll show you how my tone goes that man You just like it made it feel more tangible, right? So now we're getting people who are in the era Where they grew up on that and we're starting to say a lot more hours care about that put that in the practice now the thing that I think makes it hard for indie artists to compete with major label artists is usually two things it's typically Let's just say resources manly capital was just keep it at resources And then infrastructure bro, like infrastructure in a way that's like different, right? So like the rest of about the point like hey, I'm on breakfast club A platform is typically you know, I'm saying used by major artists and I'm here without any type of major backing like We've known you can get on these platforms if you are connected to the right people, right? If I go hire the same publicist that I don't know J Cole is using it's possible that I could get on some of the same publications that J Cole is getting on because at least This person has access to that, right? Well, I think that's how typically we look at what might not be considered is one The the way of the relationship from the other side, right? So if I'm a major label and I'm the breakfast love I'm probably tapping the breakfast love is probably tapping in with the major labels See how it was up there They should come they should come out the same way the labels are going to be continuing to tap into The breakfast club to make sure hey, it's hot. So when we're ready to send people your way you good You fuck with us, right? When you're an individual and you're not tied to a major corporation, you don't usually Get that same level of treatment from the part your partners Yep Unless you were like massive, you know what I'm saying you like it like you tell us with like tell us with Spotify different platforms probably reach out to her, you know what I'm saying every quarter You got some shit coming up. We be thinking about I would think they'd be that But if you like someone that's even Not even just small I just say like three four steps below her like that You might not be getting those same types of like reach outs all the time, right? Right. Um, so I think that becomes the part that makes it hard for artists to get to that level It's not that you can do it It's staying top of mind and then maintaining that level of an infrastructure Where you're keeping up with all these different partners and things that you need to Pretty much your machine right like your machines you have to keep activating keeping up with that for a long period of time It's taxing. It's exhausting. It's expensive. You know what I'm saying and that's that's the problem Yeah, the problem is not just Can people have access to my music today? All right, can I go direct to Kim somer on Whatever part of my vertical the The music the touring the merch whatever It's because of the relationships at hand that makes music such a partnership heavy industry and That's what we get into the blur line between Independent or just independent of a major label, right? So for me I think It has to at least be acknowledged when we had these conversations the economics of relationships all right The way that for people to naturally move and their incentives to Put people in the room that they're connected to Put people in a room that they can trust Why can they trust them because they might be connected to them and their incentives are in line They have a similar agenda. All right um Where they've been brought in through somebody else that you trust all right, so Though once we talk about at scale Not make more money than Drake. I believe The wrestle if that's his ambition And he has the way to do it. He can make more money than Drake ultimately, right? And not even necessarily just do music Cool Are we talking about bigger and being a superstar? in the same Traditional sense of superstar That's a whole another story. All right, and look by all means go down route because I'm not even somebody who Desires that type of you know energy and like facial recognition. So it's a little different, but but I But that's what you're going for in terms of superstar be as big as Drake in that way I think it's you have to acknowledge not just big Not at home. All right not just big at You know domestically so in your city not big in this nation. We're talking about big around the world facial wise Not just more money We're talking about facial branding. All right consider the big artists And then how do you get into all the spaces that allow for that? Yeah, right? Yeah, like oh and How do you continue to do the r&d that's required? to continue to stay old time over time As an individual entity that doesn't have a lot of those same partnerships because that's extremely difficult all the r&d that we get from running our agency Right, but then also maximizing that to All these other streams like touring r&d, right? Let's just say nft r&d Whatever, you know, there's so many different categories. It's hard to truly master all those things alone so I don't want to be like discouraging or hating against the the idea that indie art is being big I just think when we talk about specifically the facial recognition Traditional superstar box that we think of at the moment As we both agree at the time it's hard for me to see That occurring without Some partnerships that would make me personally say ah You're not indie indie. You know what I mean? So that's the way I think about it. Yeah, I mean No, that goes back to kind of what I was saying earlier like why don't I think it'll happen I just don't think it's gonna happen anytime soon because we are We are now in the era where we're watching artists attempt to do it. Yeah So that means we're watching in real time. You know what I'm saying? Not even just rest like we're watching Major label artists leave their label and attempt to go indie, right? We're watching artists pop on platforms like tiktok and youtube and things and choosing to stay the indie rock to build themselves out So like we're watching in real time artist how to figure it out Going back to what I was saying earlier It's not enough of them to talk enough about infrastructure because you mentioned something right like even Even thinking about like the level of superstardom, right? Like you have your local practices. You have your regional practice. You have your national practice Yeah, like I don't think there's enough Art is yet talking about what that entire pipeline looks like You control that pipeline looks like because there's not enough of them that understand it yet You're saying like these artists that we're watching in real time are going to be the ones that maybe 47 years from now like we've watched enough of them go through it They've talked about enough to the same degree at a rest of and now art is coming at that time Maybe has a serious chance of competing making that happen, right? But I just thought like we're we're in the guinea pig era of indie artists And like there's a lot that comes with being the first person to figure that path out for other people Exactly. I think This era will run into problems and say, uh, that's why I didn't get there because I didn't have this but then be able to teach it to the next generation for sure They're gonna do it, right? They'll exactly maybe they'll do it But I still just because of the scale and the amount of humans involved Yeah, right. It's hard to do it independently Right. I think a better way of positioning it to me is I think there will be a day where you can be massive Without Losing your freedom in a way that you would lose it before Like you have more control of your business. You could do shorter term deals. You'll have a lot of leverage Without hat being tied up and without having to do it the old school way Which was I'm gonna go through the system and then by my way out of it and be free that way because there are people Who have done that they're big and they're quote-unquote free, right? I don't have ownership of all their stuff. I think technically Michael might have did did that in some ways, but then again This is where we get into the other part of the game, right? You get that big You're that much of an entity And you're not tied to any other entities Do people even want you around like that? That's a different game not being a big company multiple people multiple stakeholders that are keeping it all involved partners, right Being a single individual who has all of that power or invisibility within the industry That's built different see man. Now you got into some deep conspiracies, you know, I'm just I know you're right I'm just saying there's a ground saying no, that's where that's where it gets the other side right Look, and I'm like and I'm not even trying to like tip toe way over on that side of the pond the dark side of the pond even just strictly business and competition and Not even you know, you're getting into the darker stuff. It's like well people gonna make it hard. I don't think people Realize how much there is a overall Industry incentive to keep things how they are as much as possible All right, like I'm a major label. You're a major label. There's another major label and we're all competing But then when we see Oh snap There's something coming to disrupt us. We're gonna try to figure out That is true like how to make this shit work You know what I'm saying band the good band together a little bit It's just like I can't remember which label but I'm sure the the majors felt screwed over a little bit by the first major who did the fix deal with tiktok Because they were all holding out everybody wanted, you know Hey, I want to get paid per stream essentially, right? And one did the big lump storm and that set the tone Once you got that precedent the other ones kind of got to fall in line, right? So it all affects them how the industry is moving how Artists deals are set up all of that stuff. But right now what do they do? They figured out a way to have these distribution companies so we're still connected and y'all can feel independent Yeah, you get more freedom, but I still got a leash You know Oh, I invested in spotify, you know, I mean I'm trying to get as much as tiktok as I can but Tiktok got a day day. That's a different animal right now. Oh, I'm invested in what spotify has uh, the cd baby Yeah, oh, yeah any but spotify. I got cd baby and major labels in spotify I can't remember if the majors are still completely in spotify I know that they had the sales so off a little bit or something like that at one point, but like things Look man the people In a certain space and I benefited from the industry being a certain way They're not gonna let it all go out like we talked about When drake was up for a new contract and drake could have left being completely independent And uh domino affected that would have had Yeah, like it was incentive for me as a label drake signed to you Hey, bro, how much you need you need 10 mil to make sure drink stains deal to add on top Like don't be cheap, bro. Come on. Go ahead and make good. That's what I would be like, right? Just to keep the climate the climate So I think we also underestimate that as a whole is like say The the industry only money always wants to keep the old environment. Let's put it that way and then New money tries to fight for it and then when new money finally figures it out They become old money want to keep the old It's it's an interesting paradox that we're in but what I see in major labels History, they've been very good at buying time to figure out a new program All right, it's like we use these rights to slow people down So she can't innovate too fast. We can throw copyrights and we can sue you We can take all your music off your platform or now let you give music in the first place So by is just enough time For us to figure out. Oh, yeah, we want to be Distributors and we want to you know get invested in this company and this company and this tech So you still in business with us anyway All right, so I don't know what that new thing is but the new thing that they're really trying to be They're thinking less about independent artists Individually and more about the AI music shit. Oh, how can we make sure that doesn't leave us? You know, so I don't know. It's it It's an interesting argument about can you be a big drink? I think we generally agree that It's not It ain't a with that five years thing Let's say that No, we looking at our new young superstars like between 22 and 26 right now So it's around when they hit and they 30 Stars in it for one of them. I think I don't know who What type of genre do you think you'll be? Probably pop or rap man Man, I think I think pop you think pop. Yeah pop a lot of might be rapper Latin memory. Oh man. I'm glad you said that because the one person we didn't talk about was bad bunny Bad bunny has an amazing deal All right. Now he has this major label. They're doing distribution So he's a co-owner in his label all that great stuff And if you could do that do that Do you look at bad bunny as completely independent or do you look at him as Just independent of the major labels independent of the major labels Well, I think he's also sound so major or his his partnership level. I think is connected to a major district I want to say 900% sure don't call me on that Let's no, let's let's take some time and just go ahead and google it because I think it's important for this conversation So no, because like I made this tiktok about bad bunny one time Like I got educated so much in the comments. It's on my tiktok. I want to see that I'm saying just thought it out there covered the safety But oh, but I learned so much from the comments on that post bro This is about his situation, but I think ain't no sound too. Sam is such a big bad bunny stand. Oh, yeah Bad bunny researcher Let's see. Oh, wait. No come on. How could uh All right. Oh, she's spitting Hey, you know, yeah, we won't just go ahead and play this clip. We don't came across a random clip. Let's let's see this Let's see what she's talking about this Nice young lady Let me see what's her name. Let's shout her out before we say the only Kayla Shout out to you She was telling me I see what she's talking about Did you know that bad bunny has a 90 10 contract? So basically what that means is a bad bunny is taking home 90 percent of his revenue from music and streams So bad bunny has a management deal with he must entertainment, but that's all they are They just manage him as an artist the 90 10 comes from his distribution deal with the orchard which falls under sony So with that distribution deal bad bunny is taking home 90 percent All right, there we go. So I mean we could let her play that say what she was saying But that's the concept that we're talking about because that's what we're going to see next Maybe we'll find somebody who has no distributor that's connected to a major or anything like that But under that particular agreement do you just consider that independent of a major? Or do you call that? Independent in general not independent of a major because it's like one orchard is connected orchard is orchard And then bad bunny is bad bunny when those two things come together You essentially have the same level of power and resources as a major label It's like that's it like well connected distribution company meets artists that is Having a great moment right now or had a great a lot of a couple of moments Right when those two things pie together brother the effect is almost no different than the major label effect I got him. I got a major label with a way better deal. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly All right, let me let's finish saying what she said of his revenue He also gets a 30 million dollar advance before he drops an album now whether the album is a Block or not, which never is he is getting 30 million dollars off the top. Oh, no, I'm gonna have to cut shawty off The music yeah I saw you kind of bopping to the music a little bit. I'm gonna hold up is that music I Don't know shoot. All right. So yeah, so we can't let you play and mess up our coffee right, but no that um I think that's the real conversation. It's just do you consider that independent or not? Right? I think again to me it goes back to semantics and I get tired of the semantics of hey You're in a partnership, but I'm you still came to me with this same-ass deal We're like, oh, yeah, man. No, but it's a partnership though. It's like no, don't be doing you know, so we're still Getting the exact same resources pretty much once you get to this at the same level. All right from those same entities That's not independent in the in the way that is marketed. All right. It gets marketed as this pure relationship That's completely in-house no real connections and Again, when you hear this from me, I always want to keep in mind This is not me saying there's anything wrong with being independent That's not me saying there's anything wrong with being connected to majors any of that stuff I'm always about Just seeing the game for what it is and make sure your paperwork and your numbers Suit you. Right. Yeah, you got that 90 10 Look, would you be mad again saying oh, I got a label, but you get the 90 10 And you get 90 10 you good you get 90 10 happy That's the part that matters more than the semantic itself So that's all my ways my argument I just want things to be clearly defined in the field to be laid out before We just jump into these cut these systems or follow these words and these trending topics Because that's the shit that fucks with indie artists on the outside that Are inspired by let's just say a bad money or inspired by a center C or russe or whoever right Yes, these artists have more flexibility They have larger amounts of money You know that they're getting per You know per deal or whatever and They control their entity their primary entity All right, they can leave agreements. They have a lot of leverage I think that's the part that's more important versus the word independent or not Just so just Follow the right parts of that game versus that general idea because then you get these guys Shit on youtube like us Like just saying indie indie indie indie, right But they're not telling you what indie means and these people are usually interpreting it as completely DIY And that's not the same shit. Yeah, that's why to me the the growth. Uh, not the girl whole about to say dumb It's like the growth of the our space has been like you see some people stepping more out of that narrative, right? More to what you said. Hey, do what's best feel situation because yeah, it's like brown less you You want to truly be independent, but if you're not Either doing every position or you train every person for every position you have Yeah, but you're not you can never be truly independent. You know what I'm saying? This is a collaborative game, bro. Like, you know, you can't get around that Yeah And with collaboration means you get to lose that title, bro Now, maybe we will one day see this super super artist that comes along and does that but in the meantime, man You know, that's your working brother. Take take the rope. Let's keep pushing Hey, shout out to the rustle though for that clip inspiration and doing what you've done so far, man Like you said you on that the breakfast club a lot of people ain't on the breakfast club off his mind So and part of that though comes from doing dope shit So we talk about getting to those levels getting in some of those rooms without certain relationships We are in a way space where you can get higher up Damn near completely independent of Those traditional majors just because People have power where they say, oh, yeah, I like what you're doing That's how you get yourself into some roles without necessarily being in deals And especially when we talk about outside music, right? Charlemagne is in their music like that size main thing. Oh I just like you I'm not saying I don't know exactly how he got there But I'm sure Charlemagne has brought people on he just like what they were doing Because he seems to be the more a and r individual on breakfast club You know, I mean making connections and bringing people in like that So Look do those shit and do good business And you be I Let all of this well Yeah See that's the problem that's the problem really we we try to be accurate versus just doing sound bites And niggas just want to hear sound bites because like you said The whole idea of being Independent we're or major we've always been on that nuance people are starting to be cool do what's best for you We've always said that because I ain't want nobody life in my hands listening on youtube And then you go, oh, yeah, I did this because of shot and I'm like Yo, bro, you know, I mean like that or not in your particular circumstance Yeah So that's why I also love the format of podcasts Well, we get at least give more nuance if you would all just hear these sound bites and then Take it around with it in the wrong direction. Yes. I'm happy to hear a sound bite and everyone's they're like, hey man You should have wanted to watch the full episode for episode. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I got proof Two more sentences you would have said you would have saw me say except for But that's me man, we even go too much longer for this episode of the day. Hopefully y'all liked it Let us know in the comments Really with people because we're trying to get as many followers as possible We try to make this pot as big as possible so we can bring on dope people do dope shit Bring y'all great information And as always, I'm brand man shine and I'm kory and we out. Peace