 It is the touch line here on Y244, Robert Rosoro is my name on this beautiful Saturday afternoon and on this segment we are going to be looking at Kenyan football. It's actually an eye on Kenyan football. We are still with Max Oluwaseke, my co-host here and also Jenin Azia for the first time is former Gormaya player Mike Otien. Mike, welcome to Y244, the touch line. How you doing? Doing very well, thank you very much for having me. It has been a big week when it comes to the sports industry in this Kenya and the world. What has been your biggest highlight of the week when it comes to sports? It was, I don't know if we can call it a low light or a highlight, but poster rangers overwhelmed Gormaya when they were 10 men and they lost their 11th man in the third minute. I think poster rangers just wanted to show some palms of maulu that you did a mistake reaching us for Gormaya and you need to make a return. But it was a good result for Stan Yokumbi, mumarambesta's tactician, I think recording his first win since taking charge. So Mike played for Gormaya back in the 90s, he joined Gormaya in the late 1995 and he played with the likes of Zedekaziko Otieno, the current KCB coach played with Dr. Dan Shikanda, who is now the current FC Leopards chairman. But those are my words, let's listen to his story, a bit of his heydays when he played for Gormaya. Mike, it is your time. How was Gormaya for you back when you played for Kogalu? When I started following Gormaya around 1987, when the Mandela Cup, just beside that it was the team that led on to Harambesta, so I've been following Gormaya since I was a young boy and that is what really attracted me. Since 1987 I really really wanted to be with the likes of Peter Dao, David Ochieng, they really did well for Gormaya and also the national team. So as a young boy I started then, I wanted to join Gord Junior, which I did at a young age of about 15 and then I got close to the team and eventually after going to school in Musingu High School, I came back and then joined the senior ranks. When I was part of the team, Gormaya was going through a little bit of a cycle, a low cycle because sometimes we would not get the allowances, but the fan following was always there and everybody was really engaged and wanted the team to do well. But it was one of those cycles. Along with people like Dan Ogada, I remember when we were waiting for the bus here in Gilhouse and we would share the challenges that everyone was going through, maybe he had not paid some of his obligations at home but he would still show up and represent the club. So with that type of history players always engaged and even if there's some challenges the players always show up and keeping the tradition. I recall I was part of the young group that was joining the club myself, Brian Okumu, we were just barely joining the club and then Leslie Okudo came in and infused some professionalism in the club. Which is also part of the broader challenge that we have with Kenyan football because we lack that professional infusion which requires planning, requires a significant amount of investment. We also did not have, the previous team had sponsorship from a casino, one of the casinos here in Nairobi but we didn't have an actual sponsorship during that time. So significant challenges would travel to Mohoroni to play the matches there and we wouldn't have a proper kit for proper doctors kit of medical kit but those are part of the challenges with Kenyan football. And it must be sad for you considering that those challenges you went through back then are still going on 30 years later. It is because when you look at how the Americans developed their football since 1996 they didn't have an actual football program but since 96 they featured in the World Cup. They've been annually featuring to presenting their continent which is Konkakafa I believe. So when you look at that we have a tradition that goes through the 60s and 70s but yet they started their program only 30 years ago and I think when you look at the FIFA ranking we're only at 104 and they are much higher position. So those type of things I think something like infusing the professionalism, those challenges for the players we have to clean that up so that we can improve our football. So you played for Goma for a span of 4 years about 2 years then I left and went to university in California. And just like you indicated unlike today in the past there was no concrete sponsorship there was no broadcast deal. Do you think those factors absence of the two contributed to some players not realizing their dreams because you see currently we have a broadcast deal when you playing your game is getting showcased, televised on TV. If you are interested in securing your services overseas in case you show extreme talent can get to notice you. And like in the past do you think those two hindered some of you people realizing your dreams of featuring for overseas clubs for your favorite outfits abroad. You're absolutely right because that type of showcase is what you need. That platform where you can showcase your talent. But if that platform is not there in terms of broadcasting you don't have any tips that you can actually compile. Because to become a professional you need a profile, a portfolio, a compilation of what you have done to give somebody a 5 minute view of your talent. But if before we didn't have that intricate broadcasting or video recording, video capture. And so those definitely influence or make it difficult for people to showcase their talent. And what in Europe or in North America what they really look at they wouldn't know you personally and you can't tell them your story by words. So they would want to see exactly what you have done. And something like that would definitely hinder us. We also since then we haven't come up with a long range plan. We seem to be going over the 2 years, 3 years at a time. So we need something that is long range. We can have a 50 year plan or a 25 year plan or a 10 year plan. In the US like the MLS they started with a goal of losing 22 million dollars. That is about how much is that in Kenya shalings. When they were losing 22 million dollars they felt that they were ahead of schedule. So we have to plan, we have to sacrifice and make the investments ahead of time so that we can be able to calculate those opportunities. What made you live Kenya for university in the states and what did you study for? Before I left I was featuring for the first 11 teams at Gormaya and then I got injured. I got a meniscus injury. So I got invited to a university called California State University and they had a soccer program there and they also wanted to encourage young people from Kenya to get an opportunity to get that high education because at the time only 4 universities here in Kenya were offering those opportunities. So when you leave high school if you are not in those 4 universities you basically had to get an A or a B plus or something like that. So I decided to go there and study information systems. Today my profession is systems administrator for university. Here in Kenya? In the United States. That's a big one. When you look at football in the states and what you are doing in Kenya we are really behind. We have raw talent but in terms of how we organize and how we invest we definitely have some catching up to do. One area we lack is strength training. I was looking at the poster players the other day and you can see when you compare in terms of size that's one of the things you have to look at when you're looking at two teams the size of the muscle build of the players. So we lack strength training because we don't have the genes that we can send our players and they can live and that is a very very core and intricate important part of football. The way and style of management and administration of sports is different from how the local administrators do their thing at home. I know exposure is key. It is paramount to success development of these sporting entities and having gotten that exposure overseas in the United States where things are done differently, contrary to how they are done here Do you think your professional acumen has been of much help locally? Is there anyone who has reached you to seek your knowledge on how to administer the game successfully? I have had some conversations with some former players like Freda Rocho, I have had some conversations with him on how we can improve. I have had some conversations with Azadeh Kiyoteno Ziko and one of the most important things that I try to emphasize is that long range planning and sometimes we have challenges because some of our teams don't have the sponsorships. A team like KCB, that one, they definitely can make some planning they can pay the players and make sure they have a five year plan or a smaller plan. Exactly, exactly. So I have tried to emphasize that long range planning. We have to invest in our youth. We have to start looking for talent in western province in those areas where the physical talent is there. There are some very successful players from Kakamega area from Kisumu, from the Nyanza area. So we have to start looking at the younger players. In the United States they have programs for kids even for two years old. So they start very early. My daughter I'm going to start at about five years old but they start at two and three. So we have to invest in the youth and start very early in providing technical acumen. For us we got in contact with the better coaches when we were at high school or now you're actually playing in the league. So something very simple like placement of a power. That is a very small comparison. We were taught always use power. Piga kumbora. So you have to have a balance of both. There has to be some placement when you're looking at hitting the target is more important than just more power. So there are some things that we need to teach the young ones early so that we don't go to the national team level and then we start teaching our players how to control the ball or how to stop the ball. That is too late. On Y254 we are having a discussion with Michael Tieno who played for Goldmire but now he is doing his professional work at the United States. But now when we come and talk about Kenyan football at the moment what is your take on Kenyan football? Our continental showing is we are at a little bit of a low cycle right now because we see exits by teams in the first round and that is becoming almost perennially, yes exactly. So that is an indicator that we need to do something different. Our neighbors just here Uganda. Uganda wasn't always ahead of Kenya when we looked at the ranking. But right now they are 83rd. 83rd is close to what Kenya did and what was our best which is about 7. And they were also in the finals of under 20. And they were in the finals on 20. That's amazing. Now that is in the next 10 years those young players are going to give us challenges. So we have to do something different. Our neighbors somehow they are getting it right. Simba is getting players from Kenya so that tells me that the incentives that we are providing our players is not enough. So we need the fans to come back to the stadiums. Our fans, we watch the Arsenal games and Nikolas Musone, former Secretary General kept complaining how people stuck in the bus along Nairobi West Langata catching Arsenal against West Bromwich Albion. Yet Kenya playing against South Sudan to Nyaya National Stadium people can't show up and spectate the game. But you talked about critical element of talent nurturing. We've had people running for positions seeking to be chairman, federation president of various sporting disciplines local and whatever they say that the agenda would revolve around nurturing of talent it's been like a cliche until some of us don't want to listen to that crap. How well can we actualize the dream of this budding stars especially at this secondary school level because when you watch these school games you see how these young people exhibit high level of competence and talent manifestation but I don't know they get to disappear in between and we never get an opportunity to watch them at the big stage like for them featuring at the national level. How well do you think we can actualize the dream of this emerging stars? And that is true when you look at Nairobi secondary schools championships when you actually watch the games they are engaging and you see that there is a variety of talent from all areas of the country what we need to do is to ensure that there is a handoff there are players if you don't get picked directly from school usually you don't get that opportunity I was fortunate I played for Kakamega Posta while I was still in school and then I went on to play club football but there is a transition period that is very easy to lose these young players if you are not getting any opportunity at a club and somebody offers you a job and you want to start your family you are a young man you take the job so there is a transition period where we need to ensure that these young players transition successfully and they get placed into clubs the federation can take a very active role in this and also the private sector needs to take an active role in this because these young players I think when we have the secondary school championships do we allow we allow sponsorships can we allow any branding for the high school games yes we do because even the likes of milk companies broke sides are always coming on board what we don't allow is these players getting paid because they are seen at the tender edge many incentives are not allowed but for the corporates they are allowed to come on board I think the corporate can also take an active hand in this when I was playing we had the coca cola championships and that helped us a lot in making sure we had something to do when we were around that age of 18 years old so even the corporate sponsors can take on these teams we are going to put these young guys together so that they can represent our country at the under 18 level under 20 level like Uganda just did and that way you keep that process going as the transition to the senior level when it comes to corporates I think in Kenya there is some kind of disconnect between the corporate world and the sports world here in Kenya in that the corporates back then they used to trust the sporting world today they don't do that how can we bring that trust back that is the keep one their trust we have to infuse a level of professionalism from the football side so that we can demonstrate to the corporate entities that we take this very seriously if we show them that we take this very seriously and we want to be partners and stakeholders in something that can allow them also to reach the section of sports fans then they would probably take an interest in what we are doing we have to create transparency transparency and accountability levels we have to open up and ensure that the corporate sponsors can review our books so that means we have to hire professional accountants we just don't decide that since I am the chairman I can also do the books so let everyone let's treat it as something that is professional all around and if we do that I think they will take an interest and come back now let's finish with you we are a former club what do you make of the team so far so the current team I think the team has some bright young players Clifton Miherso is quite engaging to watch I know Muguna in the middle in the midfield there is a stand out and I think the defenders are all four defenders are pre-strong and fast but the team needs forward they also need to recalibrate and mix up the talent pool that they have infuse some other young players into the team and also add some strikers up front in the game that I watched on Wednesday I think they missed about seven clear chances in football one chance can be the difference so the team needs attacking players and also we need some patience if you've been on top for about four years there's going to be a cycle or a break in between no team can sustain top level for unknown amount of time so there is going to be right now it's time for patients right now it's time to rebuild and recalibrate and then you can make another run in the next three or four years and rebuilding is not only in the field of play there's going to be on the other all the aspects of the club and one is the brand gourmet itself the brand gourmet a club that was formed way back in 64 up to today and you compare it to a club like inter mayami that just started recently and is already on a profit run mechanism what can you advise gourmet that they can learn from what kind of brands like inter mayami I think the team since the day I was playing I think the team has not completely embraced a professional approach right now gourmet should have its own stadium gourmet should have living quarters for all the players and all the coaches for anyone who needs a place to learn gourmet should have its own businesses that are creating income for the club right now gourmet should have professionalized the machandise part of the machandising right now gourmet should have its own contracts with corporations that can infuse some sponsorships right now gourmet should have its own investment and the Nairobi stock exchange and car income for the club so its definitely where the club should be if the club can invest in those areas save money on how you are raising talent what kind of talent you are bringing in from outside the country and these are variety of things that can be done to definitely improve the club structure wow that is where we come to the end of this segment here they are taking me on a commercial break but Mike we say thank you for coming here for the touch and hope that you will be coming again sometime in the future before you leave for the united states absolutely just before you leave Mike to leave to exit the set you can tell Brian he manages to excuse us for the next five minutes you do public demand Brian Mike you know we have food mall administrators thoughts on what you think about football Kenya federation leadership so far and even you know calls to have Ambrose Racheer leaving the helm because some people believe he has overstayed what is your objective insight on the same I think Racheer has had an excellent run for the club and he has definitely elevated the club structure when we look at the last 5-10 years also when there is such a thing as fatigue infusing other bringing new ideas for where the club is the club is not where it was 10 years ago so if it may be time for somebody else to step up but the person has to step up knowing like you had mentioned that he even spends his own money so it's not a comfortable position it may be a tough thing he has done an excellent job but I think there is always room to transition to different kind of leadership to bring new ideas and that way the club can go to the next level as a former footballer do you think the current regime of football Kenya federation has not utilized ex-soka players because that has always been the complain from them I think utilizing former players is crucial they are the ones who understand the game they are the ones who know the history from the 80s and 90s we know what challenges are facing football players so definitely adding former players like Musao Tieno into the core decision making because he is one of Kenya's most captain so he has a lot of experience of how matches all around Africa so he should definitely be somewhere close or providing good advice to the officials the final one Kenya playing against South Sudan this afternoon you are taking on Jacob Gostimules run so far and what you think about the capabilities of the team qualifying to the AFKON for the second time running the two teams the two matches that we have left South Sudan we should be able to get at least a point because after all it's a friendly but we deserve a point from that if we don't get a point from that we'll be in trouble then we play Egypt and Togo we are ranked higher than Togo so we are expected to win that remains to be seen but I think if we we should collect about four points from the remaining two games we will collect a point from them as well definitely looking forward to that thanks a lot Mike thank you so much for having me let's go for a short commercial break when we come back it will be the fun zone